[OGD] IOSPE
By the way IOSPE [www.orchidspecies.com] now has an average unique vistor total of 544 with a record of 1126. I guess the AOS plugs are helping add tothe user base. Thanks all and happy growing!! Jay Pfahl Jay, thank you for all of the amazing hours you put into your invaluable sight. Shirlee McDaniels - Denver ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
[OGD] scan needed / Comparettia macroplectron
Do you have the following issue of Orchidee (?): I need a scan of these pages : Bockemuhl, L. / Senghas K. 1986 Comparettia macroplectron Rchb. f. & Triana 1878, Orchidee, 37(5): centre page pull out (2p.) Thanks in advance for your collaboration. *** Regards, Viateur ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
[OGD] There ought not to be any confusion, CITES cleared it up!
>Peter Croezen's remarks on legal flasks left me so confused :>In Singapore, the local authorities insists on CITES II certs together with >Phyto when it comes to importing Appendix I flasks e.g. slipper orchids. >Their belief is that when flasked up, CITES I will be down graded to CITES II. The confusion you and many feel was not meant to be, years ago all flasks were taken off CITES. However, some orchid people interpreted other CITES articles in such a way as to claim that App I flasks were an exception and still on CITES. It was also explained by the same people, that Artificially propagated App I species, from legally collected parents could then be downgraded to App II. After the last CITES convention, (November 2004) this confusion was cleared up by adding a small paragraph to the top of the CITES App I species list. I will paste it in this post and also give you the CITES link to it. Please enlighten your CITES people in Singapore!!! >(For all of the following Appendix-I species, seedling or tissue cultures obtained in vitro, >in solid or liquid media, transported in sterile containers are not subject to the provisions >of the Convention) App I flasks do not require CITES permits, PERIOD!! Here is the link: http://www.cites.org/eng/app/appendices.shtml Scroll nearly down to the bottom, past FLORA, to OCHIDACEA For the curious, here are the orchids presently on the App I species list: Aerangis ellisii; Dendrobium cruentum; Laelia jongheana; Laelia lobata; Paphiopedilum spp.; Peristeria elata; Phragmipedium spp.; Renathera imshootiana. ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
[OGD] Comparettia macroplectron
Dear Viateur: You was right with your appreciation. It is only endemic to Colombia. There is not any other registration or report in other country. Saludos, César Fernández Avenida España Urbanización Campo Alegre Nº 0-229 San Cristóbal, Estado Táchira- Venezuela Cell: 0414-706.6509 Phone: 011-58-276-356.3830 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
[OGD] The two year agreement, should not be endorsed by INRENA
>I don't understand this kovachii 2 year agreement. Is this just >between Jerry and INRENA or between anyone and INRENA? In >other words, will it be 2 years before we see seedlings offered for sale >in US or not? Manola Arias was selling Phragmipedium flasks, at the WOC in Dijon France, that did not measure up in size and quality to pictures of flasked seedlings, advertised in his Peru-Flora Brochure for US$ 550.- per 25 to 30 seedlings. Manola made his Dijon customers, who purchased Pk flasks, sign the same two year agreement you speak of. I believed at the time that this was just something Manola dreamed up to extend his monopoly on the expensive Phragmipedium kovachii flask sales. Jerry Lee Fischer, who went to Peru to purchase Pk flasks, in an earlier post on this forum, stated: "We had to sign an agreement with INRENA that the seedlings would not be sold for 2 years," If what Jerry stated is true, and if it was indeed INRENA who made him sign that document, then INRENA is dead wrong! This is against CITES rules INRENA should be severely reprimanded by CITES. It is a corrupt action by INRENA to extend the expensive flasks sales monopoly of Manola Arias, who is simply selling them for his US fugitive father, the infamous Manuel Arias Silva , who escaped from the USA just before he was sentenced to 21 month in jail for smuggling Appendix I orchid species into the USA. This Manuel Arias Silva was bombarded by the very same INRENA to be their protector and propagator of Phragmipedium kovachii. Permit 002!!! How ironic!!! Just when you thought there was no corruption in INRENA, and the Phragmipedium kovachii saga. Invite me to your orchid society and I will give you a digitally projected presentation on The Phragmipdium kovachii saga. I have made this presentation to orchid societies all over the USA and Canada and can provide your society with references. ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
[OGD] Jay's Acriopsis
Jay, all Acriopsis tend to drop their leaves in a hurry when they don't like the conditions. It sounds like your A. indica is behaving "normally" and you've been lucky with your A. liliiflolia clone. How come the AOS awarded a plant with just one under-sized inflorescence ? Don't they know what the correct standard is ? Jay, when you see those guys again, tell them that A. liliifolia in peak condition should have one inflorescence per active lead, with each inflor reaching at least 90 cm long and having at least 5 main branches (these should also have side-branches) and the flower-bearing part of each branch should be at least 50 cm long. Your current inflorescence is much nearer the mark. Cheers, Peter O'Byrne in Singapore ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
[OGD] follow up,
Heather who said:> In other words, will it be 2 years before we see seedlings offered >for sale in US or not? Whoever purchased Pk flasks from Manola Arias can sell the seedlings right away, to anyone in his or her country. Forget that you signed a ridiculous "2 years no selling" document with INRENA. You did it to just get them out of Peru. It is not a legal document INRENA can use against you. One note of caution: If you deflask Manola Arias's Pk flasked seedlings, they are now Pk plants, and thus subject to App I CITES rules, i.e. you will need CITES export and import permits to have them cross international borders. Now that INRENA has allowed Pk flasks to leave Peru, the gates are down for all Pk flasks propagated from seeds of illegal, smuggled, Phragmipedium kovachii plants, known to exist all over the world.. Just watch the $550.- per flask price drop very quickly to normal.. ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
[OGD] "a beautiful little orchid " / which species ?
"CARMEL, California - An environmental group has filed a lawsuit against the Monterey County Board of Supervisors for approving a development in the Del Monte Forest. The Pebble Beach Co. got approval from the supervisors to build a new golf course, additional guest rooms and employee housing. But the group Helping Our Peninsula's Environment -- or HOPE -- claims the approval was illegal. "... It admittedly will destroy ... about a quarter of all these rare orchids. There's a beautiful little orchid that lives here... The project next goes to the California Coastal Commission for a vote, which will review the environmental impact of the development as approved by the Board of Supervisors." source : http://www.theksbwchannel.com/news/4377301/detail.html?rss=mty&psp=news *** Regards, Viateur ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
[OGD] growing North American species
From a question/answer, in the New York Times : "Arethusa bulbosa. ... The best place to find these beautiful little flowers is at the sunny margins of floating sphagnum bogs. And that is where they should remain. Although dragon's mouth orchids, a k a swamp pinks, are not yet on the federal endangered species list, habitat loss and overcollection have them teetering on that brink. But even if they were plentiful, arethusas would be off limits to gardeners because they are almost impossible to domesticate and very slow to bloom... Two other hardy orchids with pink flowers can make the leap from the wild, assuming you have or can create the requisite bog. One is rose pogonia, Pogonia ophioglossoides, which usually bears one flower on an 8- to 10-inch stem. Calopogon tuberosus, a k a C. pulchella, the grass pink, has stems a foot tall or more, each with up to six comparatively large flowers." source : http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/14/garden/14qna.html *** What have been your successes and failures with North American terrestrials ? How long have you been able to grow a North American terrestrial before it died ? Any species your would recommend that, properly grown, should last 'forever' ? *** Regards, Viateur ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
[OGD] beautiful little orchid is Yadon's rein orchid
see "Carmel group sues over Pebble Beach project / Environmentalists cite plans' impact on endangered species " source : http://www.montereyherald.com/mld/montereyherald/news/local/11391979.htm *** Yadon's rein orchid = Piperia yadonii Rand. Morgan & Ackerman [Platanthera yadonii (Rand. Morgan & Ackerman) R.M. Bateman] see : http://www.1hope.org/piperia.htm *** Regards, Viateur ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
[OGD] IRENA Illegal Document
Peter- Not intending to dispute your assertion, I would be interested in having you expand on the reasons for the following statements by you that the INRENA agreements are illegal under CITES and are not legally enforceable: "If what Jerry stated is true, and if it was indeed INRENA who made him sign that document, then INRENA is dead wrong! This is against CITES rules INRENA should be severely reprimanded by CITES." * * * "Whoever purchased Pk flasks from Manola Arias can sell the seedlings right away, to anyone in his or her country. "Forget that you signed a ridiculous '2 years no selling' document with INRENA. You did it to just get them out of Peru. It is not a legal document INRENA can use against you." Michael A. Corn ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
[OGD] Jay's Acriopsis.
Title: Jay's Acriopsis. The AOS judges, in their wisdom, gave the plant a CBR for the very reason that it was a first sighting, not that they considered it a mature specimen! That's what a CBR or a CHM is usually for and it gets the plant recorded and also, as an integral component of the award, identified by a recognized professional orchid taxonomist. That is why the AQ is an essential reference work for judges around the world. Andy Easton ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
[OGD] Orchid Recovery Program in the Everglades
"northern part of the Fakahatchee Strand, the largest cypress strand in Big Cypress Swamp. ... A lot of changes are taking place there, including the establishment of an orchid recovery project ... Scott Stewart ... has been an integral part of the Orchid Recovery Program since 2002... the critical first steps of the project ... are to study the biology and ecology, find the kind of fungus orchids needed, and document details of their life history... The idea of the orchid recovery program is to ensure that more orchids germinate and grow in a protected habitat." source - complete news story : http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=14345149&BRD=2256&PAG=461&dept_id=455823&rfi=6 *** Regards, Viateur ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
Re: [OGD] Re kovachii flasks
This matter is a bit out of my main interest areas, but it is a telling story on the vanity of hominids; thus laughable if it was not so sad. My understanding is that there are a least two possessors of Phrag. kovachii flasks/seedlings in the U.S., Jerry Fischer and Chuck Acker, and that they acquired their flasks on a joint trip. Considering the reported US$550 per flask [ca. $18-$22/seedling], the Freudian-style possession craze ongoing about this plant must surely have others attempting to gain marketshare. Come on marketplace, flood! There are few things so enthralling as the great sucking sound of a speculation bubble imploding. Speaking of crazes, what is the latest story on what happened to those hundreds (thousands?) of wild plants filtered through the U.S. to Germany a few years ago under the noses of the USFWS? This seems to be a nearly forgotten element in the continuing story of this species. Peter C., do you have any fresh information (i.e., within the last 6 months or so) or gossip on this matter? Paul ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
[OGD] orchid epigenetics?
Does anyone on this list happen to be in the field of orchid epigenetics? There's a new book out by Blackwell on "PLANT EPIGENETICS," by Peter Meyer . It seems to me that this sort of research would wreak havoc with our judging systems. "Epigenetic modifications are stable but potentially reversible alterations in gene _expression that occur without permanent changes in DNA sequence. Recent years have seen a dramatic increase of research activity in this area. This is the first volume to provide an overview of our current knowledge of epigenetic mechanisms in plants. It is directed at researchers and professionals working in plant molecular genetics, developmental biology and biochemistry, and will provide a point of entry to the detailed literature." Nina Rach Houston___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
[OGD] Inrena, Arias, kovachii
Inrena did indeed make me sign a two year agreement. Before I went to Peru I checked with my lawyer to see what the legalities were being that I am in the United States. I was told that any contract can be enforced as it is an agreement between the parties involved. I thought about it and at first I thought the 2 year agreement was ridiculous but then I remembered there are illegal plants around and I know there are flasks in the U.S., Canada and the E.U. So I went along with it and signed the agreement. I think the agreement will eventually change but for now it is what it is. I think the best way the kovachii problem can be resolved is if all of the plants are tracked for 6 or 7 years. Any plant which is sold, traded or donated could be tracked to the original source. Any plant which is shown exhibited or sold would require an invoice or certificate from the approved importer . If questions are asked about the legality then the certificate or invoice could be presented. You may ask why 7 years? This will allow legitimate growers to raise the first seedlings to flowering size and make the first generation of hybrids without worrying about someone dumping illegal ones for a fast buck. This may seem absurd to some but how else can you really punish the illegal collector of parental stock who has smuggled Phrag. kovachii or its seed pods and wants to sell the seedlings of the species or hybrids? Does anyone have a better way of managing this problem? If so post it on this list. As for the Manuel Arias saga, I would like to suggest that the true story of what really happened with his arrest has not been properly represented in this forum. I do not claim to know entirely what happened, perhaps no one ever will but I do know that what everyone is reading here is filtered through various authors perceived ideas with some facts or partial facts. It is a human nature thing. If I believe strongly in something I will stand behind that belief and that causes me to filter information in a way that reinforces my belief. Truth sometimes is a little harder to get at and it is well known that the human mind alters stories the more they are repeated and the more the stories are repeated by different people. I know some things about what really happened. I do not claim to know the absolute truth. I will post to this forum what I I know at a later date. Remember, that after 2001the homeland security act allows anyone to be arrested with no reason and held for at least 24 hours. Does this make us all potential criminals if it should happen to us? The Arias family has spent a great deal of money and made a huge effort to produce kovachii flasks and to produce may other Peruvian species from seed. I have seen first hand what they have done. I do not think it improper to charge what they do for the flasks. This is not an easy business to be in and when there is an opportunity for a nursery in a country of origin to make some money then let them. People don't have to buy kovachii seedlings if they don't want to spend the money. If they do though they should not complain as they should know what they are getting into. Best to all, Jerry -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.10 - Release Date: 4/14/2005 ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
[OGD] Manolo Arias
I was asked by a friend to post a note here about Manolo Arias...Manolo is the correct spelling...and he has taken over the business due to his father's ill health. My question...is his company the only one allowed by INRENA to sell P. kovachii? Take care, Eric Muehlbauer in Queens NY...a cool, but real spring...paphs lowii, niveum, and bellatulum alba in bud ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
Re: [OGD] Inrena, Arias, kovachii
Yes, actually, I do have a better solution. But it is not a solution for this specific problem, but all of the plant problems. A forum will be hosted on it to discuss and revise this plan, shortly. It goes something like this: PART I Outlining the problem Fantastic and desirable species exist in the wild in many countries. Let us for instance take Phrag kovachii. P. kovachii is from Peru and this is called the "range country." This highly desirable species is subject to CITES, however CITES only regulates the trade inbetween countries, and has absolutely no say about what goes on with a species inside its country of origin. For example, with regard to CITES you can trade them, breed them, propagate them, eat them, or burn them and it is all CITES compliant. Obviously this does nothing for the conservation of the species, habitat, nor does it address the problem of over-collection. The simple fact is that these wild plants are highly desirable, and they will be collected regardless of any laws in place. PART II Desirable outcomes Some things we could hope to achieve might be conservation of the species in the wild, conservation of the species itself by having it in cultivation, putting a stop to over-collection, putting a stop to smuggling and to allow the range country to benefit from its natural resources. These sure would be nice, and it sounds like fantasy. Can such a thing really be achieved? Keep reading. PART III Implementation I have been thinking about this problem, and I think I have a solution that would make everyone happy. Well, everyone except the smugglers. I suggest a modification of CITES, and increased cooperation and unilateral interpretation between countries. The range country would have public or commercial established but government supervised entities. These entities would go out and wild-collect the plants of the new species. The plants would then go back to the establishment and begin to be cultivated and numbered. So now you have plants out of the wild and into the greenhouse, in the range country. Now, CITES creates a special type of permit which allows people to register as breeders, under the agreement that the plants they may import with the permit be used only for propagation purposes. For each country, they are allowed to purchase a certain amount of wild-collected plants. This would have to be a non-negotiable number, such as 20 plants per species. The range country would then be contacted, given the permit info from the importer, sign a contract for royalties or outright purchase with the importer, then issue a permit and ship the plants out. These plants, as agreed, may only be used for breeding and micropropagation of the species itself. Basically the range country would be outsourcing the lab work to other countries. Part IV, What? Wait, what about the smugglers? Why wouldn't people just smuggle them? Okay, smuggling comes down to supply and demand. I will be posting a paper to explain this, by one of my friends. If there is demand, somebody will supply the plants, legal or not. If you have chosen to refuse trade, then all the plants will be smuggled. However, if you open up the trade, but regulate it instead of pretending it isn't going to happen, then you have control over it. It costs very little money to steal plants out of the wild. However, in smuggling them, there is lower quality, and risk of law infractions. If you created the ability to purchase the plants legally, demand for illegal plants would drop. But how do you make sure there are more legal plants than illegal plants? We would have to make there be better incentive for people to sell the plants above the table, as opposed to below the table. You can do this be removing the competitive advantages of smuggled plants. By offering a legal alternative, breeders will probably choose to by legal and certified plants over illegal and somewhat difficult to get low-quality jungle plants. You also have to consider who the market is. The market for the illegal plants are typically commercial breeders, a few collectors, and natives of the range country. The natives of the country are a problem we cannot legislate around with international law. The only native greenhouses and labs can solve that problem. Collectors are not those who by in huge quantities of plants, so the demand there is negligable. However, commercial breeders like the asian, germans, euros, and americans are huge consumers of illegal plants. They consume these plants in order to get ahead in the market for when the plants become legal on someone else's dime. Well, what if we gave them that edge and they didn't have to compete for it by stripping the jungles? Okay, this is getting long winded, and I have to go make a sandwich. Bottom line is, there is a website online that will be available to the public, shortly, where we can discuss all this. I have all of these issues worked out pretty well to make everyone happy, but I don't h
[OGD] Phototropic or negative gravitropic roots
Based on what Charles and AJ pointed out and a little more reading, “catch roots” would be better called phototropic or negative gravitropic roots. The reason phototropic roots would be correct is that epiphytic orchid roots photosynthesis. My hypothesis is that in upward aerial roots auxin is of a high enough level, plus with a phototropic response, to overcome statoliths banging on the cell’s membrane wall (positive gravitropism). Epiphytic orchid roots occupy an intermediary between “classic” roots and upper growth because of photosynthesis. (There are a number of orchids that are mainly a mass of roots with little to no leaf.) Basically all epiphytic orchid roots are aerial some just happen to come into contact with and adhere to a surface. In the case of what are being called "catch roots" the straight upward growth is a phototropic response. Both the catching of moisture or debris, and the presence of ants seem to be of more of coincidence then a reason for a negative gravitropic root growth. Root growth in search of moisture, debris, or a surface to adhere to is more hit and miss without a mechanism to cause that growth to move in a certain direction because it can sense a surface, moisture or more moisture at a certain spot. Interestingly one of the things I came upon was from Orchid Biology, Reviews and Perspectives, V, edited by Joesph Arditti, Water Relations in Orchids, Russell Sinclair, page 69: "Some orchids e.g., Ansellia, Catasetum, and Graphorkis produce dense clusters of fine, negatively geotropic roots. Johansson (1974) suggested that these may function by condensing water vapor at night which is then transferred to living tissues, allowing such species to survive in dry habitats. However, Barthlott and Capesius (1975) detected no uptake of tritiated water by these, in contrast to the thicker aerial roots of several other species. Dew on plant surfaces may be an important source of water in some plant communities such as cloud-forest. However, the importance of aerial roots in the absorption of dew is not yet clearly known." So at least in the seventies what we are now calling "catch, trash, eagle nest roots" were called by some negatively geotropic roots. The modern term would now be negative gravitropic roots. Moisture as a reason was proposed but somewhat ruled out. Mark Sullivan Thanks AJ, Charles, Dennis, and Tom. ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
[OGD] Award for Jay's Acriopsis
The story so far ... Jay Pfahl's Acriopsis was awarded a CBR/AOS. The inflorescence was very undersized. Andy Easton commented: That statement is rather patronising ... there is no way that this occasion was a "first sighting" because the plant has been around for ages and is well-documented in the literature. What you probably mean is "the first time AOS judges have seen it", which is not the same thing. The unavoidable conclusion is that none of the AOS judges on the team did their homework before awarding the plant. Do all AOS judges work in an information vacuum ? Jay never commented on the plant's maturity. Mature or immature is irrelevant; I'd expect anyone who is supposed to be something of an expert (such as a judge) to have sufficient knowledge about the species to be able to make an informed assessment; that clearly didn't happen on this occasion. Where individual judges don't have the knowledge to make an informed judgement, they should refrain from passing judgement and withdraw from the team; that clearly didn't happen, either. OSSEA judges would never have awarded such a plant. They would have returned the plant to the owner with an encouraging comment and the suggestion that it should be bought back for re-judging in a couple of years when it is doing a bit better. Andy, this story (and your comment) just reinforces the widespread belief that AOS judges are "soft" when compared to their Asian counterparts. In light of your earlier boast to this forum about how the judging standards at the next WOC are going to be high and consistent (you dissed Vanda judging at Dijon, remember ?), perhaps you would share with us all an outline of your masterplan to bring Florida Award-Judging up to Asian standards before the next WOC. Cheers, Peter O'Byrne in Singapore___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
[OGD] Re: Orchids Digest, Vol 7, Issue 201
Jerry erects a formidable barrier for reporting on the status of Manuel Arias in suggesting that, "... the true story of what really happened with his arrest has not been properly represented in this forum." Furthermore, "...perhaps no one ever will," since "various authors perceived ideas with some facts of partial facts." I do perceive that Arias' collaborator, George Norris, is in jail. At his sentencing hearing, which I attended, I perceived that Arias had been shipping Norris Appendix 1 Phrags deliberately mislabeled as Maxillarias for convenience. [ Note, these Phrags, which did NOT include P. kovachii, probably could have been shipped legally if they had bothered to process the proper papers.] I perceived that the prosecutors claimed that the value of the shipment in question was about $8,000, but in order to up the legal transgression the prosecutors said they had the right to claim the entire value of the shipment at about $45,000. They further claimed, on the basis of some arcane point of law, they had the right to claim the value of shipments over a three year span, about $120,000, but since Norris plead no contest, they would magnanimously limit their claim to $45,000 for sentencing purposes. We were informed by Norris that he had to pledge his home in Houston as collateral for Arias' bail and Arias stayed with Norris pending a sentencing hearing. About 10 weeks later Arias showed up in Miami for the Redlands Show and was registered as staying at a local Miami residence. I did personally perceive that two Peruvian vendors were detained from selling at the Redlands in order to check their inventories against their CITES papers since someone had claimed that their papers were fraudulent, but eventually everything was found to be in order. One of the vendors, Manrique, ironically has also been granted permission by INRENA to propagate P. kovachii and therefore compete with Arias. Rumor, which I believe, was that Arias had falsely implicated them as a condition for coming to Miami without being held in custody. At this point Arias left Miami, scuttlebutt being that he was sent a fraudulent passport from Peru to replace the one the US had confiscated. His departure was dramatized as his having arrived at the airport a half hour before departure and paying cash for passage so that his passport could not be scrutinized nor US officials be made aware of his departure. I perceive Arias is free in Peru, even though he received a twenty-two month sentence in the US, while Norris is serving a seventeen month sentence in jail here. Justice? Jerry, which part of this story do you regard as filtered? What role do you feel that the Homeland Security Act played in this saga? If I have any point of view, as Jerry fears, it is that enforcement of CITES, a treaty designed to protect animals incapable of giving birth to a million progeny at a time, is out of control. If Norris and Arias violated CITES, the punishment should have been commensurate with the gravity of their transgression, perhaps a modest fine. I perceived during Norris' hearing neither the government prosecutors nor the judge had any realistic comprehension of the criminal act involved, nor could they have cared less. It was all a game to them. They were adhering strictly to the statutes violated and the sentencing stipulated. Furthermore, I view the draconian sanctions against Selby and Wes Higgens for their CITES misadventure with P. kovachii in the same light. Where will CITES strike next? ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
[OGD] Phragmipedium kovachii illegal plants
To Paul who asked about >Phragmipedium kovachii plants smuggled out of Peru to Germany via the USA; >what happened to them. I have no knowledge of this route Paul. Two habitats were completely stripped of an estimated 2500 Phragmipedium kovachii plants plus all the seedlings. Only ten mature Pk were legally collected and are now in two nurseries in Lima, Peru. Farmers who collected them illegally had no idea how to culture them. However, we have also seen pictures of experienced orchid growers in the Pk habitats, CLAIMING they just went there to take pictures. Holding up flowers for the photographer, their hands shown in the pictures covered in black mud, and lettuce seeds could easily germinate in the dirt collected under their finger nails. Amazing, when you are only taking pictures of Pk flowers. Phragmipedium kovachii grows at 1900 meters above sea level in valleys running East-West on the shady South slopes. Bringing them down to the market at 800 meters above sea level, the plants had to tolerate temperatures that were much higher and when placed in full sun, many of them died before they were sold. There are many rumors about routes along which illegal Pk's were smuggled out of Peru. There is no doubt in my mind, that they are now in nearly every country of the world. >Paul also asked what happened to the illegal Pk's. Well, those who have them are not putting them on display in their nurseries. They probably have them hidden in small private greenhouses of friends they trust. These are used for seed production to propagate the species itself, and for hybridizing. Unexpected visitors have spotted blooming Pk's in greenhouses of people who proclaim to be orchid conservationists.Go figure! Now that Manola Arias is exporting Pk flasks propagated from legal plants, we will probably hear fantastic stories, from many countries, how fast these Pk seedlings matured; faster than any other orchid species in history! ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
Re: [OGD] Phragmipedium kovachii illegal plants
Peter, I don't think dirt under the fingernails of those who have been hiking in the wilderness of Peru's jungle is much evidence of anything except being outside. Anyway, it probably doesn't matter much, now that Pk is going to be legal and available everywhere pretty soon. STz ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
[OGD] INRENA and CITES
Michael who said: >Not intending to dispute your assertion, I would be interested in having you expand on the>reasons for the following statements by you that the INRENA agreements are illegal under CITES>and are not legally enforceable:>"If what Jerry stated is true, and if it was indeed INRENA who made him sign that document,>then INRENA is dead wrong! This is against CITES rules INRENA should be severely>reprimanded by CITES." Michael I have always believed that every country must have absolute jurisdiction over its Natural Resources. I have expressed this on forums and also to the head of INRENA. When INRENA does not wish to give permission to take Pk's out of the country, that is their prerogative. I fully agree with it. If INRENA gives Peruvian citizens permission to purchase legal Pk flasks, on condition that they sign a document promising they will not sell the seedlings for two years , that is Peru's business too. However, when INRENA allows export of Pk flask, allows Pk flasks to cross international borders, they have no jurisdiction over what happens to them after they have left Peru. The only authority that would have such jurisdiction is CITES...and CITES has made it abundantly clear that flasked App I seedlings "are not subject to the provisions of the Convention" The two year no selling contract Jerry, a US citizen signed is ridiculous, as Jerry says , and it does nothing for conservation of the species. ( I would have signed it too and played their game for the sake of being allowed to take Pk flasks out of Peru) In my humble opinion, there is only one reason why INRENA is doing this and that is to extend the sales of Pk flasks by Manuel Arias Silva, who signed his company over to his son Manolo. As`far as it being against CITES rules: When INRENA tries to dictate what happens to exported orchids, be they plants or flasks, orchids now outside Peru borders, they tread on CITES territory. INRENA has no business doing so and CITES should blast them for it. As far as fully understanding how government and citizens "cooperate" in Peru , as Manolo calls it in an e-mail to a friend of mine who contacted him, you have to spend some time there and see it first hand to believe it. I have seen it, and I believe it!! ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
