Re: [Origami] COC: Rules of conduct (RoC) and Centerfold.

2021-05-21 Thread Al Black
Hi all,

Just a side note, but it may factor in here.

> On May 20, 2021, at 6:01 AM, Anne LaVin  wrote:
> 
> Just goes to show that this stuff is Not Easy. And that in a convention/event 
> context, it's probable that the Con organizers would have to designate 
> "official" folks to be available to help, if only for their own liability.

For all its worth, one of the elements that convention organizers should/need 
to check is whether or not the facility they are renting requires a COC and the 
documentation of incidents.   It is part facilities minimizing their liability, 
and its not uncommon.  

al

Re: [Origami] COC: Rules of conduct (RoC) and Centerfold.

2021-05-20 Thread Carol Martinson
Lest someone be frightened off from writing reports, the reason sworn 
statements were required in the incidents that I mentioned earlier was that we 
were considered witnesses.  Mine was a defamation of character case between two 
non city employees and the other one was a person seeking damages for a fall 
down the stairs where there were no eye witnesses but the employee heard the 
fall take place.  In both situations the only support we got from the city was 
tell the truth.

It is unlikely that there will be a lot of reports in a convention setting.  
It’s just that they will be documented in case any further questions arise.  

Anyway, the types of incidents which may create problems are likely the type 
where there are consequences from both not writing reports and from writing 
reports.  Having a code and taking it seriously offers greater protection for 
the organizers, victims, and the accused individuals in the rare situations 
someone is lying.  And, as Anne said, if the report writer is untrustworthy and 
lies, eventually that usually is also revealed through the reports they write 
(or ignore writing).   Also, as Anne speculated, eventually the library 
designated people who could write the reports although any staff member could 
and was expected to take information if a designated writer was not immediately 
available.

Again, I am not a lawyer but am writing from the unique perspective of having 
lots of years of practical experience.

I am more afraid of the consequences of not writing reports, even without the 
support of lawyers and an HR department.

Carol Martinson 



Sent from my iPad

> On May 20, 2021, at 7:04 AM, Anne LaVin  wrote:
> 
> 
>> On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 3:24 PM Anne LaVin  wrote:
> 
>> 
>> I will be an ally.  
> 
> I was reminded, off-list, that even general community efforts towards CoCs 
> and related behavior can be somewhat fraught: in this example, I am only 
> potentially useful as an ally for someone in trouble *if I can be trusted*. I 
> like to think that I could be, but a complete stranger has no way of knowing 
> this, of course. And a Bad Actor could do exactly as I have done in order to 
> get close to someone vulnerable. People do suck, sometimes.
> 
> Just goes to show that this stuff is Not Easy. And that in a convention/event 
> context, it's probable that the Con organizers would have to designate 
> "official" folks to be available to help, if only for their own liability.
> 
> Still, it's the community as a whole that can work towards creating an 
> appropriate and welcoming culture, and that's still on all of *us*.
> 
> Anne


Re: [Origami] COC: Rules of conduct (RoC) and Centerfold.

2021-05-20 Thread Anne LaVin
On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 3:24 PM Anne LaVin  wrote:

>
> *I will be an ally.  *
>

I was reminded, off-list, that even general community efforts towards CoCs
and related behavior can be somewhat fraught: in this example, I am only
potentially useful as an ally for someone in trouble *if I can be trusted*.
I like to think that I could be, but a complete stranger has no way of
knowing this, of course. And a Bad Actor could do exactly as I have done in
order to get close to someone vulnerable. People do suck, sometimes.

Just goes to show that this stuff is Not Easy. And that in a
convention/event context, it's probable that the Con organizers would have
to designate "official" folks to be available to help, if only for their
own liability.

Still, it's the community as a whole that can work towards creating an
appropriate and welcoming culture, and that's still on all of *us*.

Anne