RE: JBoss verses Orion
Rebuttal time. Anyone from Orion willing to give an update on current support plans or how the new company is coming? -Original Message- From: Alex Paransky [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 1:15 PM To: Orion-Interest Subject: RE: JBoss verses Orion I don't think that getting a NullPointerException when trying to use a feature is complaint. I feel that the support of such a product is almost as important as the product it's self. Any commercial company that cannot support it's users, will fail. If there is not enouph people to support the product, then hire more. If there is not enouph money to hire more people, then increate the license fee for commercial deployment from $1500 to $3000. It does not make sence to keep the fee so low, and at the same time provide little or no support for the users. I have been trying to resolve the issue with "domain was null" NullPointerException in Orion for the last 4 weeks, with no repsonse. How am I supposed to continue using this product? -AP_ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Hani Suleiman Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 6:28 AM To: Orion-Interest Subject: RE: JBoss verses Orion Magnus and Karl both chip in now and then, they used to do that more in the past I guess, but (understandably) realised that it's a far better use of their time to ensure they have a stellar product, than to respond to endless complaints. As Joseph said, it depends on what you want out of your software. Killer performance, compliance to specs, excellent development environment, easy deployment, or fuzzy feelgood social aspects. The fuzzy stuff is nice, but given a choice Hani On Mon, 2 Apr 2001, Kemp Randy-W18971 wrote: > But wouldn't you be just a bit curious to know more about Karl, or more importantly, who the founding members of Ironflare are? I would. If you go to visit the Resin site (www.caucho.com), which is a commercial site, somewhere there is a blurb about Scott, the key architect. And I have noticed that Scott is actively answering questions in the Resin mailing list, and Rickard and Marc are actively answering questions in the Jboss mailing list, both on a regular basic. > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 5:40 AM > To: Orion-Interest > Subject: Re: JBoss verses Orion > > > Yes, the amount of charitable contributions made by the Orion team is of the > highest importance to me, too. And whether they supported Bush or Gore in > Florida. And whether their favorite color is blue - if it's not, then I HATE > ORION! (And if it is, then why does their web site use red so much?) > Technical issues are over-rated in technical fields, if you ask me. > > (On the other hand, I can think of a few VERY good reasons JBoss' > performance was lower than Orion's - no explanation was made of the specific > setup.) > > On Sat, Mar 31, 2001 at 09:37:31AM -0600, Kemp Randy-W18971 wrote: > > Orion is definitely ahead of Jboss technically, but Jboss has more people behind it, as far as development and debugging goes. With Jboss, you can get a profile of the founders and board members. It would be nice to have the same profile of some of the Orion founders and developers, so we can know them a bit more personally. Jboss has the potential to catch up to Orion, given the number of people involved on the project. So Orion needs to keep in the technical groove, so to speak. Remember the story of the Turtle and the rabbit race? > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Fink, Paul > > To: Orion-Interest > > Sent: 3/30/01 2:52 PM > > Subject: JBoss verses Orion > > > > > > I ported our Orion application to JBoss. I love JBoss for > > usability, documentation and support. Unfortunately our application is > > very > > performance dependent the JBoss version ran very slow. After playing > > with > > cache setting, etc. It seemed like the communications was the main > > bottle > > neck. > > To test this I wrote a simple session bean with one get method that > > returns > > a Long. > > > > The client looped 10,000 times calling the getter. The Orion version was > > 6 > > times faster! > > Other tests we ran had Orion running 4x faster. > > > > It seems that JBoss certainly is performance limited. > > > > I'm running on a 900 MHz PIII under Linux with Sun's JDK 1.3 > > > > > > Paul Fink > >
RE: JBoss verses Orion
> I have been trying to resolve the issue with "domain was null" > NullPointerException in Orion for the last 4 weeks, with no repsonse. How am > I supposed to continue using this product? I think the answer is that you should not. If I were using a product that did not work, and got no help from support, I would ask for my money back and I would be buying another product. tim.
RE: JBoss verses Orion
I don't think that getting a NullPointerException when trying to use a feature is complaint. I feel that the support of such a product is almost as important as the product it's self. Any commercial company that cannot support it's users, will fail. If there is not enouph people to support the product, then hire more. If there is not enouph money to hire more people, then increate the license fee for commercial deployment from $1500 to $3000. It does not make sence to keep the fee so low, and at the same time provide little or no support for the users. I have been trying to resolve the issue with "domain was null" NullPointerException in Orion for the last 4 weeks, with no repsonse. How am I supposed to continue using this product? -AP_ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Hani Suleiman Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 6:28 AM To: Orion-Interest Subject: RE: JBoss verses Orion Magnus and Karl both chip in now and then, they used to do that more in the past I guess, but (understandably) realised that it's a far better use of their time to ensure they have a stellar product, than to respond to endless complaints. As Joseph said, it depends on what you want out of your software. Killer performance, compliance to specs, excellent development environment, easy deployment, or fuzzy feelgood social aspects. The fuzzy stuff is nice, but given a choice Hani On Mon, 2 Apr 2001, Kemp Randy-W18971 wrote: > But wouldn't you be just a bit curious to know more about Karl, or more importantly, who the founding members of Ironflare are? I would. If you go to visit the Resin site (www.caucho.com), which is a commercial site, somewhere there is a blurb about Scott, the key architect. And I have noticed that Scott is actively answering questions in the Resin mailing list, and Rickard and Marc are actively answering questions in the Jboss mailing list, both on a regular basic. > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 5:40 AM > To: Orion-Interest > Subject: Re: JBoss verses Orion > > > Yes, the amount of charitable contributions made by the Orion team is of the > highest importance to me, too. And whether they supported Bush or Gore in > Florida. And whether their favorite color is blue - if it's not, then I HATE > ORION! (And if it is, then why does their web site use red so much?) > Technical issues are over-rated in technical fields, if you ask me. > > (On the other hand, I can think of a few VERY good reasons JBoss' > performance was lower than Orion's - no explanation was made of the specific > setup.) > > On Sat, Mar 31, 2001 at 09:37:31AM -0600, Kemp Randy-W18971 wrote: > > Orion is definitely ahead of Jboss technically, but Jboss has more people behind it, as far as development and debugging goes. With Jboss, you can get a profile of the founders and board members. It would be nice to have the same profile of some of the Orion founders and developers, so we can know them a bit more personally. Jboss has the potential to catch up to Orion, given the number of people involved on the project. So Orion needs to keep in the technical groove, so to speak. Remember the story of the Turtle and the rabbit race? > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Fink, Paul > > To: Orion-Interest > > Sent: 3/30/01 2:52 PM > > Subject: JBoss verses Orion > > > > > > I ported our Orion application to JBoss. I love JBoss for > > usability, documentation and support. Unfortunately our application is > > very > > performance dependent the JBoss version ran very slow. After playing > > with > > cache setting, etc. It seemed like the communications was the main > > bottle > > neck. > > To test this I wrote a simple session bean with one get method that > > returns > > a Long. > > > > The client looped 10,000 times calling the getter. The Orion version was > > 6 > > times faster! > > Other tests we ran had Orion running 4x faster. > > > > It seems that JBoss certainly is performance limited. > > > > I'm running on a 900 MHz PIII under Linux with Sun's JDK 1.3 > > > > > > Paul Fink > >
RE: JBoss verses Orion
Thanks for the history lesson. Magnus and Karl have done one superb job for two people. -Original Message- From: Mike Sick [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 10:20 AM To: Orion-Interest Subject: Re: JBoss verses Orion When I was first introduced to Orion, Magnus was the one and only developer on the job. Unless Karl gave him the boot and rewrote all the code, which seems unlikely as at least on the phone Magnus sounds like one tough Swede, Magnus wrote the foundation of Orion. From what I know, Karl came in for both technology and business development (at which he's done nicely). Someone should write A Short History Of Orionserver. Mike - Original Message - From: "Joseph B. Ottinger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Orion-Interest" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 10:02 AM Subject: Re: JBoss verses Orion > (And we all know Karl wrote most of Orion at any > rate, he and Elin.)
Re: JBoss verses Orion
When I was first introduced to Orion, Magnus was the one and only developer on the job. Unless Karl gave him the boot and rewrote all the code, which seems unlikely as at least on the phone Magnus sounds like one tough Swede, Magnus wrote the foundation of Orion. From what I know, Karl came in for both technology and business development (at which he's done nicely). Someone should write A Short History Of Orionserver. Mike - Original Message - From: "Joseph B. Ottinger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Orion-Interest" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 10:02 AM Subject: Re: JBoss verses Orion > (And we all know Karl wrote most of Orion at any > rate, he and Elin.)
Re: JBoss verses Orion
Am I curious? Sure! /me types for a bit... Oh good, I just found out all I need to know. Or want to know. Or have a right to know. That's a double-edged quip- I talk to Karl all the time, really. Even if I didn't, the point's made - it doesn't matter if I know who Karl is in order for me to use his product. (And we all know Karl wrote most of Orion at any rate, he and Elin.) To address a more relevant point - you can certainly find times on OI when the authors really do answer questions, usually correctly. However, they have more important things to do - OI is a user forum, just like orionsupport.com is. It's not their job to keep OI in line. (Unless we want to subsidize them. Do you?) On Mon, Apr 02, 2001 at 07:59:37AM -0500, Kemp Randy-W18971 wrote: > But wouldn't you be just a bit curious to know more about Karl, or more > importantly, who the founding members of Ironflare are? I would. If you > go to visit the Resin site (www.caucho.com), which is a commercial site, > somewhere there is a blurb about Scott, the key architect. And I have > noticed that Scott is actively answering questions in the Resin mailing > list, and Rickard and Marc are actively answering questions in the Jboss > mailing list, both on a regular basic. > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 5:40 AM > To: Orion-Interest > Subject: Re: JBoss verses Orion > > > Yes, the amount of charitable contributions made by the Orion team is of the > highest importance to me, too. And whether they supported Bush or Gore in > Florida. And whether their favorite color is blue - if it's not, then I HATE > ORION! (And if it is, then why does their web site use red so much?) > Technical issues are over-rated in technical fields, if you ask me. > > (On the other hand, I can think of a few VERY good reasons JBoss' > performance was lower than Orion's - no explanation was made of the specific > setup.) > > On Sat, Mar 31, 2001 at 09:37:31AM -0600, Kemp Randy-W18971 wrote: > > Orion is definitely ahead of Jboss technically, but Jboss has more people behind >it, as far as development and debugging goes. With Jboss, you can get a profile of >the founders and board members. It would be nice to have the same profile of some of >the Orion founders and developers, so we can know them a bit more personally. Jboss >has the potential to catch up to Orion, given the number of people involved on the >project. So Orion needs to keep in the technical groove, so to speak. Remember the >story of the Turtle and the rabbit race? > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Fink, Paul > > To: Orion-Interest > > Sent: 3/30/01 2:52 PM > > Subject: JBoss verses Orion > > > > > > I ported our Orion application to JBoss. I love JBoss for > > usability, documentation and support. Unfortunately our application is > > very > > performance dependent the JBoss version ran very slow. After playing > > with > > cache setting, etc. It seemed like the communications was the main > > bottle > > neck. > > To test this I wrote a simple session bean with one get method that > > returns > > a Long. > > > > The client looped 10,000 times calling the getter. The Orion version was > > 6 > > times faster! > > Other tests we ran had Orion running 4x faster. > > > > It seems that JBoss certainly is performance limited. > > > > I'm running on a 900 MHz PIII under Linux with Sun's JDK 1.3 > > > > > > Paul Fink > > -- > --- > Joseph B. Ottinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://epesh.com/ IT Consultant -- --- Joseph B. Ottinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://epesh.com/ IT Consultant
RE: [JBoss-user] JBoss verses Orion
You can use Resin as the front-end to JBoss (there's set-up instructions on the Caucho site), but as I understand it it'll run in a separate VM process and marshalling the calls between Resin and JBoss entails some overhead, that said it would probably still be faster that Tomcat. The reason Resin hasn't been integrated into JBoss is that JBoss' developers (understandably) are concentrating on an all open-source solution, and Resin's developer is writing his own EJB solution -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Kemp Randy-W18971 Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2001 10:45 AM To: Orion-Interest Subject: RE: [JBoss-user] JBoss verses Orion I do like playing with the jboss/jetty combination (www.jboss.org)over the jboss/tomcat combination, even though I started with the tomcat combination. I agree that the Orion JSP engine is faster, but by their own benchmarks, Resin (www.caucho.com) is close, and if you download their JSP engine, they give instructions in the doc on how to hook up with Jboss (as well as Orion, Weblogic, etc.). Resin and jboss would be another good combination. -Original Message- From: Alexander Jerusalem To: Orion-Interest Cc: ''Orion-Interest' ' Sent: 3/30/01 7:00 PM Subject: RE: [JBoss-user] JBoss verses Orion I'm not completely sure if this is the reason but there is this "one VM/classloader or multiple VMs/classloaders" distinction. I believe the important point is that Orion is an EJB *and* Servlet container whereas JBoss is only an EJB container. So if you use tomcat for example to run your Servlets all the calls to JBoss based EJBs will we marshalled by value by default whereas in Orion they will be transferred by reference. This makes a huge difference especially if the method you call for performance testing does essetially nothing. There is, however, a way to configure the JBoss/tomcat (or JBoss/Jetty) combination so that this boundary is optimized away. With JBoss comes a sample application that you can call in two ways: either optimized or non optimized and the performance difference is aprox. 4 times or so. I think that this could be the difference you are seeing in your tests. You'll have to ask the JBoss experts to find out about how to configure JBoss so that it uses this optimization. The other thing that I've heard is that tomcat is rather slow in compaison to Jetty. And I know that the Orion JSP/Servlet engine is pretty fast so you should maybe try the JBoss/Jetty combination for faster results. Regards, Alexander Jerusalem At 00:44 31.03.01, Fink, Paul wrote: > Oh sorry I should have said. > >Jboss 2.1 binary (down loaded March 22) > >Orion is 1.3.8 > >-Original Message- >From: Dan Christopherson >To: 'jBoss' >Cc: 'Orion-Interest' >Sent: 3/30/01 3:21 PM >Subject: Re: [JBoss-user] JBoss verses Orion > >What version of JBoss? If 2.1 (beta) the latest binary or a build from >source? If source, what date? Earlier this year there were some >performance problems stomped, but I haven't done any testing for >performance. > > >On Fri, 30 Mar 2001, Fink, Paul wrote: > > > > > I ported our Orion application to JBoss. I love JBoss for > > usability, documentation and support. Unfortunately our application is >very > > performance dependent the JBoss version ran very slow. After playing >with > > cache setting, etc. It seemed like the communications was the main >bottle > > neck. > > To test this I wrote a simple session bean with one get method that >returns > > a Long. > > > > The client looped 10,000 times calling the getter. The Orion version >was 6 > > times faster! > > Other tests we ran had Orion running 4x faster. > > > > It seems that JBoss certainly is performance limited. > > > > I'm running on a 900 MHz PIII under Linux with Sun's JDK 1.3 > > > > > > Paul Fink > > > > ___ > > JBoss-user mailing list > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user > > > >-- >Dan Christopherson (danch) >nVisia Technical Architect (www.nvisia.com) > >Opinions expressed are mine and do not neccessarily reflect any >position or opinion of nVISIA. > >--- - >--- >If you're a capitalist and you have the best goods and they're >free, you don't have to proselytize, you just have to wait. >-Eben Moglen > > >___ >JBoss-user mailing list >[EMAIL PROTECTED] >http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user > >___ >JBoss-user mailing list >[EMAIL PROTECTED] >http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
RE: JBoss verses Orion
Magnus and Karl both chip in now and then, they used to do that more in the past I guess, but (understandably) realised that it's a far better use of their time to ensure they have a stellar product, than to respond to endless complaints. As Joseph said, it depends on what you want out of your software. Killer performance, compliance to specs, excellent development environment, easy deployment, or fuzzy feelgood social aspects. The fuzzy stuff is nice, but given a choice Hani On Mon, 2 Apr 2001, Kemp Randy-W18971 wrote: > But wouldn't you be just a bit curious to know more about Karl, or more importantly, >who the founding members of Ironflare are? I would. If you go to visit the Resin >site (www.caucho.com), which is a commercial site, somewhere there is a blurb about >Scott, the key architect. And I have noticed that Scott is actively answering >questions in the Resin mailing list, and Rickard and Marc are actively answering >questions in the Jboss mailing list, both on a regular basic. > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 5:40 AM > To: Orion-Interest > Subject: Re: JBoss verses Orion > > > Yes, the amount of charitable contributions made by the Orion team is of the > highest importance to me, too. And whether they supported Bush or Gore in > Florida. And whether their favorite color is blue - if it's not, then I HATE > ORION! (And if it is, then why does their web site use red so much?) > Technical issues are over-rated in technical fields, if you ask me. > > (On the other hand, I can think of a few VERY good reasons JBoss' > performance was lower than Orion's - no explanation was made of the specific > setup.) > > On Sat, Mar 31, 2001 at 09:37:31AM -0600, Kemp Randy-W18971 wrote: > > Orion is definitely ahead of Jboss technically, but Jboss has more people behind >it, as far as development and debugging goes. With Jboss, you can get a profile of >the founders and board members. It would be nice to have the same profile of some of >the Orion founders and developers, so we can know them a bit more personally. Jboss >has the potential to catch up to Orion, given the number of people involved on the >project. So Orion needs to keep in the technical groove, so to speak. Remember the >story of the Turtle and the rabbit race? > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Fink, Paul > > To: Orion-Interest > > Sent: 3/30/01 2:52 PM > > Subject: JBoss verses Orion > > > > > > I ported our Orion application to JBoss. I love JBoss for > > usability, documentation and support. Unfortunately our application is > > very > > performance dependent the JBoss version ran very slow. After playing > > with > > cache setting, etc. It seemed like the communications was the main > > bottle > > neck. > > To test this I wrote a simple session bean with one get method that > > returns > > a Long. > > > > The client looped 10,000 times calling the getter. The Orion version was > > 6 > > times faster! > > Other tests we ran had Orion running 4x faster. > > > > It seems that JBoss certainly is performance limited. > > > > I'm running on a 900 MHz PIII under Linux with Sun's JDK 1.3 > > > > > > Paul Fink > >
RE: JBoss verses Orion
But wouldn't you be just a bit curious to know more about Karl, or more importantly, who the founding members of Ironflare are? I would. If you go to visit the Resin site (www.caucho.com), which is a commercial site, somewhere there is a blurb about Scott, the key architect. And I have noticed that Scott is actively answering questions in the Resin mailing list, and Rickard and Marc are actively answering questions in the Jboss mailing list, both on a regular basic. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 5:40 AM To: Orion-Interest Subject: Re: JBoss verses Orion Yes, the amount of charitable contributions made by the Orion team is of the highest importance to me, too. And whether they supported Bush or Gore in Florida. And whether their favorite color is blue - if it's not, then I HATE ORION! (And if it is, then why does their web site use red so much?) Technical issues are over-rated in technical fields, if you ask me. (On the other hand, I can think of a few VERY good reasons JBoss' performance was lower than Orion's - no explanation was made of the specific setup.) On Sat, Mar 31, 2001 at 09:37:31AM -0600, Kemp Randy-W18971 wrote: > Orion is definitely ahead of Jboss technically, but Jboss has more people behind >it, as far as development and debugging goes. With Jboss, you can get a profile of >the founders and board members. It would be nice to have the same profile of some of >the Orion founders and developers, so we can know them a bit more personally. Jboss >has the potential to catch up to Orion, given the number of people involved on the >project. So Orion needs to keep in the technical groove, so to speak. Remember the >story of the Turtle and the rabbit race? > > -Original Message- > From: Fink, Paul > To: Orion-Interest > Sent: 3/30/01 2:52 PM > Subject: JBoss verses Orion > > > I ported our Orion application to JBoss. I love JBoss for > usability, documentation and support. Unfortunately our application is > very > performance dependent the JBoss version ran very slow. After playing > with > cache setting, etc. It seemed like the communications was the main > bottle > neck. > To test this I wrote a simple session bean with one get method that > returns > a Long. > > The client looped 10,000 times calling the getter. The Orion version was > 6 > times faster! > Other tests we ran had Orion running 4x faster. > > It seems that JBoss certainly is performance limited. > > I'm running on a 900 MHz PIII under Linux with Sun's JDK 1.3 > > > Paul Fink -- --- Joseph B. Ottinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://epesh.com/ IT Consultant
Re: JBoss verses Orion
Yes, the amount of charitable contributions made by the Orion team is of the highest importance to me, too. And whether they supported Bush or Gore in Florida. And whether their favorite color is blue - if it's not, then I HATE ORION! (And if it is, then why does their web site use red so much?) Technical issues are over-rated in technical fields, if you ask me. (On the other hand, I can think of a few VERY good reasons JBoss' performance was lower than Orion's - no explanation was made of the specific setup.) On Sat, Mar 31, 2001 at 09:37:31AM -0600, Kemp Randy-W18971 wrote: > Orion is definitely ahead of Jboss technically, but Jboss has more people behind >it, as far as development and debugging goes. With Jboss, you can get a profile of >the founders and board members. It would be nice to have the same profile of some of >the Orion founders and developers, so we can know them a bit more personally. Jboss >has the potential to catch up to Orion, given the number of people involved on the >project. So Orion needs to keep in the technical groove, so to speak. Remember the >story of the Turtle and the rabbit race? > > -Original Message- > From: Fink, Paul > To: Orion-Interest > Sent: 3/30/01 2:52 PM > Subject: JBoss verses Orion > > > I ported our Orion application to JBoss. I love JBoss for > usability, documentation and support. Unfortunately our application is > very > performance dependent the JBoss version ran very slow. After playing > with > cache setting, etc. It seemed like the communications was the main > bottle > neck. > To test this I wrote a simple session bean with one get method that > returns > a Long. > > The client looped 10,000 times calling the getter. The Orion version was > 6 > times faster! > Other tests we ran had Orion running 4x faster. > > It seems that JBoss certainly is performance limited. > > I'm running on a 900 MHz PIII under Linux with Sun's JDK 1.3 > > > Paul Fink -- --- Joseph B. Ottinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://epesh.com/ IT Consultant
RE: [JBoss-user] JBoss verses Orion
I do like playing with the jboss/jetty combination (www.jboss.org)over the jboss/tomcat combination, even though I started with the tomcat combination. I agree that the Orion JSP engine is faster, but by their own benchmarks, Resin (www.caucho.com) is close, and if you download their JSP engine, they give instructions in the doc on how to hook up with Jboss (as well as Orion, Weblogic, etc.). Resin and jboss would be another good combination. -Original Message- From: Alexander Jerusalem To: Orion-Interest Cc: ''Orion-Interest' ' Sent: 3/30/01 7:00 PM Subject: RE: [JBoss-user] JBoss verses Orion I'm not completely sure if this is the reason but there is this "one VM/classloader or multiple VMs/classloaders" distinction. I believe the important point is that Orion is an EJB *and* Servlet container whereas JBoss is only an EJB container. So if you use tomcat for example to run your Servlets all the calls to JBoss based EJBs will we marshalled by value by default whereas in Orion they will be transferred by reference. This makes a huge difference especially if the method you call for performance testing does essetially nothing. There is, however, a way to configure the JBoss/tomcat (or JBoss/Jetty) combination so that this boundary is optimized away. With JBoss comes a sample application that you can call in two ways: either optimized or non optimized and the performance difference is aprox. 4 times or so. I think that this could be the difference you are seeing in your tests. You'll have to ask the JBoss experts to find out about how to configure JBoss so that it uses this optimization. The other thing that I've heard is that tomcat is rather slow in compaison to Jetty. And I know that the Orion JSP/Servlet engine is pretty fast so you should maybe try the JBoss/Jetty combination for faster results. Regards, Alexander Jerusalem At 00:44 31.03.01, Fink, Paul wrote: > Oh sorry I should have said. > >Jboss 2.1 binary (down loaded March 22) > >Orion is 1.3.8 > >-Original Message- >From: Dan Christopherson >To: 'jBoss' >Cc: 'Orion-Interest' >Sent: 3/30/01 3:21 PM >Subject: Re: [JBoss-user] JBoss verses Orion > >What version of JBoss? If 2.1 (beta) the latest binary or a build from >source? If source, what date? Earlier this year there were some >performance problems stomped, but I haven't done any testing for >performance. > > >On Fri, 30 Mar 2001, Fink, Paul wrote: > > > > > I ported our Orion application to JBoss. I love JBoss for > > usability, documentation and support. Unfortunately our application is >very > > performance dependent the JBoss version ran very slow. After playing >with > > cache setting, etc. It seemed like the communications was the main >bottle > > neck. > > To test this I wrote a simple session bean with one get method that >returns > > a Long. > > > > The client looped 10,000 times calling the getter. The Orion version >was 6 > > times faster! > > Other tests we ran had Orion running 4x faster. > > > > It seems that JBoss certainly is performance limited. > > > > I'm running on a 900 MHz PIII under Linux with Sun's JDK 1.3 > > > > > > Paul Fink > > > > ___ > > JBoss-user mailing list > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user > > > >-- >Dan Christopherson (danch) >nVisia Technical Architect (www.nvisia.com) > >Opinions expressed are mine and do not neccessarily reflect any >position or opinion of nVISIA. > >--- - >--- >If you're a capitalist and you have the best goods and they're >free, you don't have to proselytize, you just have to wait. >-Eben Moglen > > >___ >JBoss-user mailing list >[EMAIL PROTECTED] >http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user > >___ >JBoss-user mailing list >[EMAIL PROTECTED] >http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
RE: JBoss verses Orion
Orion is definitely ahead of Jboss technically, but Jboss has more people behind it, as far as development and debugging goes. With Jboss, you can get a profile of the founders and board members. It would be nice to have the same profile of some of the Orion founders and developers, so we can know them a bit more personally. Jboss has the potential to catch up to Orion, given the number of people involved on the project. So Orion needs to keep in the technical groove, so to speak. Remember the story of the Turtle and the rabbit race? -Original Message- From: Fink, Paul To: Orion-Interest Sent: 3/30/01 2:52 PM Subject: JBoss verses Orion I ported our Orion application to JBoss. I love JBoss for usability, documentation and support. Unfortunately our application is very performance dependent the JBoss version ran very slow. After playing with cache setting, etc. It seemed like the communications was the main bottle neck. To test this I wrote a simple session bean with one get method that returns a Long. The client looped 10,000 times calling the getter. The Orion version was 6 times faster! Other tests we ran had Orion running 4x faster. It seems that JBoss certainly is performance limited. I'm running on a 900 MHz PIII under Linux with Sun's JDK 1.3 Paul Fink
RE: [JBoss-user] JBoss verses Orion
Oh sorry I should have said. Jboss 2.1 binary (down loaded March 22) Orion is 1.3.8 -Original Message- From: Dan Christopherson To: 'jBoss' Cc: 'Orion-Interest' Sent: 3/30/01 3:21 PM Subject: Re: [JBoss-user] JBoss verses Orion What version of JBoss? If 2.1 (beta) the latest binary or a build from source? If source, what date? Earlier this year there were some performance problems stomped, but I haven't done any testing for performance. On Fri, 30 Mar 2001, Fink, Paul wrote: > > I ported our Orion application to JBoss. I love JBoss for > usability, documentation and support. Unfortunately our application is very > performance dependent the JBoss version ran very slow. After playing with > cache setting, etc. It seemed like the communications was the main bottle > neck. > To test this I wrote a simple session bean with one get method that returns > a Long. > > The client looped 10,000 times calling the getter. The Orion version was 6 > times faster! > Other tests we ran had Orion running 4x faster. > > It seems that JBoss certainly is performance limited. > > I'm running on a 900 MHz PIII under Linux with Sun's JDK 1.3 > > > Paul Fink > > ___ > JBoss-user mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user > -- Dan Christopherson (danch) nVisia Technical Architect (www.nvisia.com) Opinions expressed are mine and do not neccessarily reflect any position or opinion of nVISIA. --- If you're a capitalist and you have the best goods and they're free, you don't have to proselytize, you just have to wait. -Eben Moglen ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
RE: [JBoss-user] JBoss verses Orion
I'm not completely sure if this is the reason but there is this "one VM/classloader or multiple VMs/classloaders" distinction. I believe the important point is that Orion is an EJB *and* Servlet container whereas JBoss is only an EJB container. So if you use tomcat for example to run your Servlets all the calls to JBoss based EJBs will we marshalled by value by default whereas in Orion they will be transferred by reference. This makes a huge difference especially if the method you call for performance testing does essetially nothing. There is, however, a way to configure the JBoss/tomcat (or JBoss/Jetty) combination so that this boundary is optimized away. With JBoss comes a sample application that you can call in two ways: either optimized or non optimized and the performance difference is aprox. 4 times or so. I think that this could be the difference you are seeing in your tests. You'll have to ask the JBoss experts to find out about how to configure JBoss so that it uses this optimization. The other thing that I've heard is that tomcat is rather slow in compaison to Jetty. And I know that the Orion JSP/Servlet engine is pretty fast so you should maybe try the JBoss/Jetty combination for faster results. Regards, Alexander Jerusalem At 00:44 31.03.01, Fink, Paul wrote: > Oh sorry I should have said. > >Jboss 2.1 binary (down loaded March 22) > >Orion is 1.3.8 > >-Original Message- >From: Dan Christopherson >To: 'jBoss' >Cc: 'Orion-Interest' >Sent: 3/30/01 3:21 PM >Subject: Re: [JBoss-user] JBoss verses Orion > >What version of JBoss? If 2.1 (beta) the latest binary or a build from >source? If source, what date? Earlier this year there were some >performance problems stomped, but I haven't done any testing for >performance. > > >On Fri, 30 Mar 2001, Fink, Paul wrote: > > > > > I ported our Orion application to JBoss. I love JBoss for > > usability, documentation and support. Unfortunately our application is >very > > performance dependent the JBoss version ran very slow. After playing >with > > cache setting, etc. It seemed like the communications was the main >bottle > > neck. > > To test this I wrote a simple session bean with one get method that >returns > > a Long. > > > > The client looped 10,000 times calling the getter. The Orion version >was 6 > > times faster! > > Other tests we ran had Orion running 4x faster. > > > > It seems that JBoss certainly is performance limited. > > > > I'm running on a 900 MHz PIII under Linux with Sun's JDK 1.3 > > > > > > Paul Fink > > > > ___ > > JBoss-user mailing list > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user > > > >-- >Dan Christopherson (danch) >nVisia Technical Architect (www.nvisia.com) > >Opinions expressed are mine and do not neccessarily reflect any >position or opinion of nVISIA. > > >--- >If you're a capitalist and you have the best goods and they're >free, you don't have to proselytize, you just have to wait. >-Eben Moglen > > >___ >JBoss-user mailing list >[EMAIL PROTECTED] >http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user > >___ >JBoss-user mailing list >[EMAIL PROTECTED] >http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
Re: [JBoss-user] JBoss verses Orion
What version of JBoss? If 2.1 (beta) the latest binary or a build from source? If source, what date? Earlier this year there were some performance problems stomped, but I haven't done any testing for performance. On Fri, 30 Mar 2001, Fink, Paul wrote: > > I ported our Orion application to JBoss. I love JBoss for > usability, documentation and support. Unfortunately our application is very > performance dependent the JBoss version ran very slow. After playing with > cache setting, etc. It seemed like the communications was the main bottle > neck. > To test this I wrote a simple session bean with one get method that returns > a Long. > > The client looped 10,000 times calling the getter. The Orion version was 6 > times faster! > Other tests we ran had Orion running 4x faster. > > It seems that JBoss certainly is performance limited. > > I'm running on a 900 MHz PIII under Linux with Sun's JDK 1.3 > > > Paul Fink > > ___ > JBoss-user mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user > -- Dan Christopherson (danch) nVisia Technical Architect (www.nvisia.com) Opinions expressed are mine and do not neccessarily reflect any position or opinion of nVISIA. --- If you're a capitalist and you have the best goods and they're free, you don't have to proselytize, you just have to wait. -Eben Moglen
JBoss verses Orion
I ported our Orion application to JBoss. I love JBoss for usability, documentation and support. Unfortunately our application is very performance dependent the JBoss version ran very slow. After playing with cache setting, etc. It seemed like the communications was the main bottle neck. To test this I wrote a simple session bean with one get method that returns a Long. The client looped 10,000 times calling the getter. The Orion version was 6 times faster! Other tests we ran had Orion running 4x faster. It seems that JBoss certainly is performance limited. I'm running on a 900 MHz PIII under Linux with Sun's JDK 1.3 Paul Fink
