Re: Why is it so hard?
Hello Paolo, I'm not sure all 400+ people on the list want to find personal "I agree" mails in their mailboxes, a feature we don't use enough is to answer to the person and not to everyone on the list. However, since it appeared on the list, I'd like to comment on your remarks, The custom tags you used, can you explain the error (in a personal mail or a mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]) and we'll try to find out if this is a bug in Orion or if there is something else. Tomcat has been known to break the spec. in many cases and allowed things that are incorrect, but I'm not saying that this is the case with your problem, they could of course be related to some bug in Orion, and if that is the case we'd like to know and fix it. Again, documentation is important, but we can't really take credit for the JVM crash/bug. Regards, Karl Avedal [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Hi Dale, > > I agree with you. Also my experience with Orion was unpleasant. > Some jsp custom tag that I developed don't work with > Orion and work fine with Tomcat and in other Jsp > Container, the EJB demo crash the JVM, the documentation > is very poor. >
Re: Why is it so hard?
Hello, Does Prosyst's server really implement all J2EE standards? I thought they were still supporting the obsolete JSP 1.0 specifcation and Servlet 2.1. In J2EE, JSP 1.1 and Servlet 2.2 is required. However, I might have missed when they upgraded to JSP 1.1/Servlet 2.2. Oops, getting very off-topic here, I'll try to not get tempted to discuss that server any further, since this is not really a good forum for it (rather the opposite). Also, Orion can use more than one SSL engine and I'm sure you can find one you can use in Ukraine too. (I'll look into this) Regards, Karl Avedal Vitaly Lipovetsky wrote: > I offer you to try application server from www.prosyst.com. > They implement all J2EE components in pure java server and don't have stupid > restriction about 128 bit for SSL (It's germany company). > But their server consumes more memory. > Now I'm trying to compare Orion and prosyst. > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > Hi Dale, > > > > I agree with you. Also my experience with Orion was unpleasant. > > Some jsp custom tag that I developed don't work with > > Orion and work fine with Tomcat and in other Jsp > > Container, the EJB demo crash the JVM, the documentation > > is very poor. > > Also I have sent one month ago, 2 commercial mails in order > > to know some aspect of the Orion license concerning > > the SSL support. Any answer > > > > Best Regards > > > > > > Paolo Sommaruga > > > > Garda Access > > Garda (Vr), Italy > > > > >I have been monitoring this list for a while and have not had time to try > > >out Orion yet. Well I found that I had a half hour so I jumped in and tried > > >to set up the ejb demo that comes with it. I noticed many posts about how > > >it doesn't work. Well I am having problems also. I followed the > > >instructions and get the following error: > > >Error initializing server: ConnectionDataSource driver > > >'connect.microsoft.MicrosoftDriver' not found > > > > > >Well I placed my jar file in orion/lib just like the install.txt said to > > >do... What now. > > > > > >Also, here is possibly a stupid question... I could not find in the > > >install.txt what the database should look like (tables and columns). Does > > >this not hit a db? If not, why do we need a datasource? > > > > > >There was a post earlier by Karl Avedal who I assume is part of the Orion > > >team that said to expect the GUI tools very soon with BIG enhancements. > > >When is very soon and what will the GUI tools help with? Will the tools > > >help me with this? From the other posts that I see, the GUI tools should > > >not be a replacement from real documentation. The GUI tools should help us > > >out a bunch, but we still need to know about the configuration. So far, I > > >see a lot of answers to posts from (I assume) the Orion team with answers > > >that I do not see in the sorry excuse for documentation text files. > > > > > > > >Why should you expect us to pay, even though very inexpensive compared to > > >others, when we do not get good documentation. There should not be a single > > >configuration/feature/whatever that is not documented. > > > > > >I know I am not the first to ask for this and will not be the last, but why > > >aren't you (Orion) listening? I will be glad to fork over $1500 to you even > > >without GUI tools if I could get some decent documentation. > > > > > >What do I mean: > > >1. A getting started that holds my hand and walks through every step (and > > >make sure each step works) of your examples leaving nothing for assumption. > > >2. Documentation on what each element means and why we would use it and what > > >it will do. Your xml.html files start, but expand on them. > > >3. A full reference of what your server can do and how to do them (not hand > > >holding here, more advanced). Example is the earlier post if isModified(). > > >I found that my EJB container provider has the same thing, but a different > > >method name (actually they let us name the method). I could not find this > > >in your docs anywhere, but could in my container docs and it is free. > > > > > >I know I am not the only one who feels this way by the post I see and I > > >don't have the time to devote to this if the simple demo does not even work. > > >I am sure the demo works fine, but the instructions are obviously not clear > > >enough or I wouldn't be the only one having problems. > > > > > >Thanks, > > >Dale > > > > > > > > > > > -- > My best regards, > Vitaly Lipovetsky. > Deputy head of IT division > First Ukrainian Intl bank > > Brainbench(Tekmetrix) e-certification id 14050 SYBASE DBA 4.38 > Brainbench(Tekmetrix) e-certification id 14050 MS SQL Server DBA 4.51
Re: Why is it so hard?
Hello Dale, Dale Bronk wrote: > I have been monitoring this list for a while and have not had time to try > out Orion yet. Well I found that I had a half hour so I jumped in and tried > to set up the ejb demo that comes with it. I noticed many posts about how > it doesn't work. Well I am having problems also. I followed the > instructions and get the following error: > Error initializing server: ConnectionDataSource driver > 'connect.microsoft.MicrosoftDriver' not found > > Well I placed my jar file in orion/lib just like the install.txt said to > do... What now. > Double check your spelling of your class name and that the class is accessible in the jar file. you can also try putting the jar in your lib/ext/ directory in your jre dir. > > Also, here is possibly a stupid question... I could not find in the > install.txt what the database should look like (tables and columns). Does > this not hit a db? If not, why do we need a datasource? The tables can be manually created by you if you wish, but Orion will auto-generate any tables you need. A point of Container Managed Percistence is that you shouldn't have to care about the actual DBMS. > > There was a post earlier by Karl Avedal who I assume is part of the Orion > team that said to expect the GUI tools very soon with BIG enhancements. They are in testing and the new version of the gui tools will be included in our next official release that is due this week. Of course you can already use the betas of the GUI tools that were shipped with your version of Orion. However the Administration tool is new for this release. > > When is very soon and what will the GUI tools help with? Will the tools > help me with this? No, the GUI tools will not really help you find your JDBC driver. > I know I am not the first to ask for this and will not be the last, but why > aren't you (Orion) listening? I will be glad to fork over $1500 to you even > without GUI tools if I could get some decent documentation. So far Orion is not fully documented but as I have pointed out before, we will make sure documentation gets alot better and it is very important for us as well. Believe me, we are listening but there are many things on our priority lists before Orion is perfect in all areas. However, I wonder if you can find any J2EE server that is fully documented and works nearly as good as Orion, J2EE is very new technology, and living on the bleeding edge has its disadvantages as well as advantages. Regards Karl Avedal
RE: Why is it so hard?
Paolo, I'd be interested to know what JSP Custom Tag you were writing didn't work with Orion. I've been writing them for quite a while now and have had nothing but joy with JSP custom tags in the last few versions of Orion (from say 0.9.1 onwards). I've had no problems getting the EJB demo to work either, (at least last time I tried it) - did all the demo's crash the browser or just one specific demo? I must admit the documentation has been lacking, but it is steadily improving and came along in leaps and bounds with 0.9.4. Mike Associate Editor australia.internet.com - http://australia.internet.com Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone: (612) 9251 3397 Fax: (612) 9251 2819 THE E-BUSINESS AND INTERNET TECHNOLOGY NETWORK LATEST HEADLINES from australia.internet.com - ASX Internets Cower After Third Straight Whipping http://australia.internet.com/aus-news/article/0,1087,121_335301,00.html - Investors' Patience May Run Out, Deloitte Predicts http://australia.internet.com/aus-news/article/0,1087,121_335311,00.html - Asia Online Raises $100 Million In New Funding http://australia.internet.com/aus-news/article/0,1087,121_335321,00.html > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2000 5:07 PM > To: Orion-Interest > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: Why is it so hard? > > > Hi Dale, > > I agree with you. Also my experience with Orion was unpleasant. > Some jsp custom tag that I developed don't work with > Orion and work fine with Tomcat and in other Jsp > Container, the EJB demo crash the JVM, the documentation > is very poor. > Also I have sent one month ago, 2 commercial mails in order > to know some aspect of the Orion license concerning > the SSL support. Any answer > > Best Regards > > > Paolo Sommaruga > > Garda Access > Garda (Vr), Italy > > > >I have been monitoring this list for a while and have not > had time to try > >out Orion yet. Well I found that I had a half hour so I > jumped in and tried > >to set up the ejb demo that comes with it. I noticed many > posts about how > >it doesn't work. Well I am having problems also. I followed the > >instructions and get the following error: > >Error initializing server: ConnectionDataSource driver > >'connect.microsoft.MicrosoftDriver' not found > > > >Well I placed my jar file in orion/lib just like the > install.txt said to > >do... What now. > > > >Also, here is possibly a stupid question... I could not find in the > >install.txt what the database should look like (tables and > columns). Does > >this not hit a db? If not, why do we need a datasource? > > > >There was a post earlier by Karl Avedal who I assume is part > of the Orion > >team that said to expect the GUI tools very soon with BIG > enhancements. > >When is very soon and what will the GUI tools help with? > Will the tools > >help me with this? From the other posts that I see, the GUI > tools should > >not be a replacement from real documentation. The GUI tools > should help us > >out a bunch, but we still need to know about the > configuration. So far, I > >see a lot of answers to posts from (I assume) the Orion team > with answers > >that I do not see in the sorry excuse for documentation text files. > > > >Why should you expect us to pay, even though very > inexpensive compared to > >others, when we do not get good documentation. There should > not be a single > >configuration/feature/whatever that is not documented. > > > >I know I am not the first to ask for this and will not be > the last, but why > >aren't you (Orion) listening? I will be glad to fork over > $1500 to you even > >without GUI tools if I could get some decent documentation. > > > >What do I mean: > >1. A getting started that holds my hand and walks through > every step (and > >make sure each step works) of your examples leaving nothing > for assumption. > >2. Documentation on what each element means and why we would > use it and what > >it will do. Your xml.html files start, but expand on them. > >3. A full reference of what your server can do and how to do > them (not hand > >holding here, more advanced). Example is the earlier post > if isModified(). > >I found that my EJB container provider has the same thing, > but a different > >method name (actually they let us name the method). I could > not find this > >in your docs anywhere, but could in my container docs and it is free. > > > >I know I am not the only one who feels this way by the post > I see and I > >don't have the time to devote to this if the simple demo > does not even work. > >I am sure the demo works fine, but the instructions are > obviously not clear > >enough or I wouldn't be the only one having problems. > > > >Thanks, > >Dale > > > > > > >
Re: Why is it so hard?
I offer you to try application server from www.prosyst.com. They implement all J2EE components in pure java server and don't have stupid restriction about 128 bit for SSL (It's germany company). But their server consumes more memory. Now I'm trying to compare Orion and prosyst. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Hi Dale, > > I agree with you. Also my experience with Orion was unpleasant. > Some jsp custom tag that I developed don't work with > Orion and work fine with Tomcat and in other Jsp > Container, the EJB demo crash the JVM, the documentation > is very poor. > Also I have sent one month ago, 2 commercial mails in order > to know some aspect of the Orion license concerning > the SSL support. Any answer > > Best Regards > > > Paolo Sommaruga > > Garda Access > Garda (Vr), Italy > > >I have been monitoring this list for a while and have not had time to try > >out Orion yet. Well I found that I had a half hour so I jumped in and tried > >to set up the ejb demo that comes with it. I noticed many posts about how > >it doesn't work. Well I am having problems also. I followed the > >instructions and get the following error: > >Error initializing server: ConnectionDataSource driver > >'connect.microsoft.MicrosoftDriver' not found > > > >Well I placed my jar file in orion/lib just like the install.txt said to > >do... What now. > > > >Also, here is possibly a stupid question... I could not find in the > >install.txt what the database should look like (tables and columns). Does > >this not hit a db? If not, why do we need a datasource? > > > >There was a post earlier by Karl Avedal who I assume is part of the Orion > >team that said to expect the GUI tools very soon with BIG enhancements. > >When is very soon and what will the GUI tools help with? Will the tools > >help me with this? From the other posts that I see, the GUI tools should > >not be a replacement from real documentation. The GUI tools should help us > >out a bunch, but we still need to know about the configuration. So far, I > >see a lot of answers to posts from (I assume) the Orion team with answers > >that I do not see in the sorry excuse for documentation text files. > > > > >Why should you expect us to pay, even though very inexpensive compared to > >others, when we do not get good documentation. There should not be a single > >configuration/feature/whatever that is not documented. > > > >I know I am not the first to ask for this and will not be the last, but why > >aren't you (Orion) listening? I will be glad to fork over $1500 to you even > >without GUI tools if I could get some decent documentation. > > > >What do I mean: > >1. A getting started that holds my hand and walks through every step (and > >make sure each step works) of your examples leaving nothing for assumption. > >2. Documentation on what each element means and why we would use it and what > >it will do. Your xml.html files start, but expand on them. > >3. A full reference of what your server can do and how to do them (not hand > >holding here, more advanced). Example is the earlier post if isModified(). > >I found that my EJB container provider has the same thing, but a different > >method name (actually they let us name the method). I could not find this > >in your docs anywhere, but could in my container docs and it is free. > > > >I know I am not the only one who feels this way by the post I see and I > >don't have the time to devote to this if the simple demo does not even work. > >I am sure the demo works fine, but the instructions are obviously not clear > >enough or I wouldn't be the only one having problems. > > > >Thanks, > >Dale > > > > > > -- My best regards, Vitaly Lipovetsky. Deputy head of IT division First Ukrainian Intl bank Brainbench(Tekmetrix) e-certification id 14050 SYBASE DBA 4.38 Brainbench(Tekmetrix) e-certification id 14050 MS SQL Server DBA 4.51
Re: Why is it so hard?
Hi Dale, I agree with you. Also my experience with Orion was unpleasant. Some jsp custom tag that I developed don't work with Orion and work fine with Tomcat and in other Jsp Container, the EJB demo crash the JVM, the documentation is very poor. Also I have sent one month ago, 2 commercial mails in order to know some aspect of the Orion license concerning the SSL support. Any answer Best Regards Paolo Sommaruga Garda Access Garda (Vr), Italy >I have been monitoring this list for a while and have not had time to try >out Orion yet. Well I found that I had a half hour so I jumped in and tried >to set up the ejb demo that comes with it. I noticed many posts about how >it doesn't work. Well I am having problems also. I followed the >instructions and get the following error: >Error initializing server: ConnectionDataSource driver >'connect.microsoft.MicrosoftDriver' not found > >Well I placed my jar file in orion/lib just like the install.txt said to >do... What now. > >Also, here is possibly a stupid question... I could not find in the >install.txt what the database should look like (tables and columns). Does >this not hit a db? If not, why do we need a datasource? > >There was a post earlier by Karl Avedal who I assume is part of the Orion >team that said to expect the GUI tools very soon with BIG enhancements. >When is very soon and what will the GUI tools help with? Will the tools >help me with this? From the other posts that I see, the GUI tools should >not be a replacement from real documentation. The GUI tools should help us >out a bunch, but we still need to know about the configuration. So far, I >see a lot of answers to posts from (I assume) the Orion team with answers >that I do not see in the sorry excuse for documentation text files. > >Why should you expect us to pay, even though very inexpensive compared to >others, when we do not get good documentation. There should not be a single >configuration/feature/whatever that is not documented. > >I know I am not the first to ask for this and will not be the last, but why >aren't you (Orion) listening? I will be glad to fork over $1500 to you even >without GUI tools if I could get some decent documentation. > >What do I mean: >1. A getting started that holds my hand and walks through every step (and >make sure each step works) of your examples leaving nothing for assumption. >2. Documentation on what each element means and why we would use it and what >it will do. Your xml.html files start, but expand on them. >3. A full reference of what your server can do and how to do them (not hand >holding here, more advanced). Example is the earlier post if isModified(). >I found that my EJB container provider has the same thing, but a different >method name (actually they let us name the method). I could not find this >in your docs anywhere, but could in my container docs and it is free. > >I know I am not the only one who feels this way by the post I see and I >don't have the time to devote to this if the simple demo does not even work. >I am sure the demo works fine, but the instructions are obviously not clear >enough or I wouldn't be the only one having problems. > >Thanks, >Dale > > >
RE: Why is it so hard?
I ended up adding the drivers for my DB (postgres) into the orion jar file. I dont know as this is necessary since, within the Orion jar file there is a manifest that seems to list all the jars, perhaps adding your drivers jar to that list would work. Al -Original Message- From: Dale Bronk To: Orion-Interest Sent: 4/5/00 10:11 AM Subject: Why is it so hard? I have been monitoring this list for a while and have not had time to try out Orion yet. Well I found that I had a half hour so I jumped in and tried to set up the ejb demo that comes with it. I noticed many posts about how it doesn't work. Well I am having problems also. I followed the instructions and get the following error: Error initializing server: ConnectionDataSource driver 'connect.microsoft.MicrosoftDriver' not found Well I placed my jar file in orion/lib just like the install.txt said to do... What now. Also, here is possibly a stupid question... I could not find in the install.txt what the database should look like (tables and columns). Does this not hit a db? If not, why do we need a datasource? There was a post earlier by Karl Avedal who I assume is part of the Orion team that said to expect the GUI tools very soon with BIG enhancements. When is very soon and what will the GUI tools help with? Will the tools help me with this? From the other posts that I see, the GUI tools should not be a replacement from real documentation. The GUI tools should help us out a bunch, but we still need to know about the configuration. So far, I see a lot of answers to posts from (I assume) the Orion team with answers that I do not see in the sorry excuse for documentation text files. Why should you expect us to pay, even though very inexpensive compared to others, when we do not get good documentation. There should not be a single configuration/feature/whatever that is not documented. I know I am not the first to ask for this and will not be the last, but why aren't you (Orion) listening? I will be glad to fork over $1500 to you even without GUI tools if I could get some decent documentation. What do I mean: 1. A getting started that holds my hand and walks through every step (and make sure each step works) of your examples leaving nothing for assumption. 2. Documentation on what each element means and why we would use it and what it will do. Your xml.html files start, but expand on them. 3. A full reference of what your server can do and how to do them (not hand holding here, more advanced). Example is the earlier post if isModified(). I found that my EJB container provider has the same thing, but a different method name (actually they let us name the method). I could not find this in your docs anywhere, but could in my container docs and it is free. I know I am not the only one who feels this way by the post I see and I don't have the time to devote to this if the simple demo does not even work. I am sure the demo works fine, but the instructions are obviously not clear enough or I wouldn't be the only one having problems. Thanks, Dale
