Re: [OSList] Why CERTIFICATION makes sense considering this conversation on Mission, Vision Strategy Plans, etc.

[Mark Carmel via OSList]

Beautiful thoughts and logic Marai! Thanks for sharing!
MC


On Wed, Aug 14, 2019, 12:24 PM Marai Kiele <
genuine-cont...@joyful-together.com> wrote:

>
> Only takes one minute to explain, or one second to discover.
>
>
> Which I neither believe nor agree to, Paul.
>
> If it only took one minute to explain, wouldn’t this whole list, all of
> Harrison’s books, thousands of peoples postings, conversations, training
> materials etc all be totally obsolete?
> Why would we even have any further conversation about it?
>
> *
>
> In 2002, when first I read about OST for the first time, I „got“ it, on a
> deep spiritual level.
> Half a year later I went to my first OST, which happened to be a full 2,5
> days exposure.
> I was thoroughly impacted.
>
> Afterwards, I knew that I wanted to not only „use“ OST as a process, but I
> acknowledged it as a way of living.
> And I also knew I was setting myself up for quite a journey.
>
> I learned about practicalities of setting up OST with small and large
> numbers of people, and later in online settings.
> I learned about helping a group of people to discover a burning theme.
> About when to use it and when not.
> About presence and holding space.
> About becoming an embodiment of „Whatever happens…“ which to me is quit
> different than just declaring the principle, but not living it
> And so much more...
>
> Especially I learned about the difference of using OST as a one-time event
> (conference / annual meeting …) or within a long term project / an
> organisation.
>
> To me, that difference is like having one deep conversation on the train
> with a stranger (easy, at least for me)
> OR
> building a long-term relationship, really getting to know another, on good
> days and bad days, moving through conflict, evolving together over time
> (not so easy, at least not for me)
>
> Two quite different endeavours.
>
> Not something to learn within only one minute.
> But maybe I am just a very slow learner…
>
> Marai
>
> Joyful Together
> Liberating Joy at Work
> phone: +49 171-810 7161
> *www.about.me* 
>
> Virtual: Join the monthly
> Global Oasis for Emerging Leaders
> 
> In person: Join the OLS in Berlin, Nov 18 - 20, 2019
> Open Leadership Symposium Berlin
> 
>
> Am 14.08.2019 um 19:38 schrieb paul levy via OSList <
> oslist@lists.openspacetech.org>:
>
> I'd never certify OST. Only takes one minute to explain, or one second to
> discover.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Paul Levy
>
> Paul Levy
> Writer, facilitator, conversifier and collusion breaker
>
> On Wed, 14 Aug 2019, 17:05 Chris Corrigan via OSList, <
> oslist@lists.openspacetech.org> wrote:
>
>> You do realize that Jesus never certified practitioners of Christianity,
>> right? And that subsequent attempts to do so basically created a toxic
>> blending of Church and Empire that contributed to mass amounts of suffering
>> through incredibly toxic and psychopathic uses of power and control for
>> most of the last 1700 years?
>>
>> And I say that as a Christian who works with churches.
>>
>> Mark, just open space.  That’s what the world wants more of. It does not
>> want or need more  people running around saying they are certified to open
>> space.  It truly doesn’t care. Your credentials mean nothing if you aren’t
>> actually opening space.  And if you are opening space, no one will care
>> what your credentials are.  The best OST meetings I’ve ever been a part of
>> were facilitated by people who had never done them before.  They cared
>> about the participants, they took care to follow the instructions, they
>> took nothing for granted, and they learned a lot about themselves and
>> others.  Some of these people were 14 years old.
>>
>> Coincidently, some of these people are also the best Christians I have
>> ever met, too, for the same reasons.
>>
>> Just do the work and share your learning and get better at it. That’s how
>> I learned, that’s how I support others and that’s my invitation to you.
>> Resist the devilish temptation to build an empire.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Aug 14, 2019, at 8:39 AM, Mark Carmel via OSList <
>> oslist@lists.openspacetech.org> wrote:
>>
>> Fascinating conversation. This is exactly why we need a
>> certification-like program and an organizational structure for the future
>> if we want to train people in the finer points of sustaining open space
>> interventions over time as Chris has done. There is a lot more to it than
>> just throwing out an invitation and opening up the market place. It is
>> interesting to me that from the most seasoned open space masters the idea
>> was instantly shot down, saying...we discussed that already... Now that is
>> not what an open space facilitator normally does right? Shoot down other
>> people's ideas. The world has evolved into one that respects credentials.
>> Interestingly the ones who sp

Re: [OSList] Determining Duration of Open Space Event?

[R Chaffe via OSList]

Thank you Harrison,  I would add that if the group has had to travel to the 
event allow three days.  Day one get started, day two focused conversation, day 
three rap up and print proceedings.  My experience is that on the last day of a 
gathering travel the participants pack their bags in the morning an they are 
mentally finished and on their way home.  Three days means you have one clear 
day including out do session time when ALL the participants being is focused on 
the event.  The third day also allows the publishing of the proceedings to a 
“best quality”.

Regards
Rob

> On 15 Aug 2019, at 12:18 am, Harrison Owen via OSList 
>  wrote:
> 
> Duration: One day for simple stuff. Two Days for complex situation with the 
> possibility of decision making/action group formation. If the people involved 
> say that is too much time, that it is pretty clear that:  A) The issue isn’t 
> that important. B) Nobody really cares. This actually a really good test for 
> the first essential pre-condition for a productive Open Space – A really 
> critical issue that has folks’ Attention. In short, they care.
>  
> ho
>  
> From: OSList [mailto:oslist-boun...@lists.openspacetech.org] On Behalf Of 
> Jake Yeager via OSList
> Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2019 8:07 AM
> To: World wide Open Space Technology email list; Michael M Pannwitz
> Cc: Jake Yeager
> Subject: [OSList] Determining Duration of Open Space Event?
>  
> Hey Michael, 
>  
> Back in mid-July you provided a really helpful description of your 
> contracting process for Open Space (reproduced below). I am using this to 
> make my contracting process more robust, so thank you!
>  
> One question I have for you: in your contracting process when is there a 
> determination of the duration of the Open Space? And how does that come about?
>  
> If others have thoughts on this subject, please join in!
>  
> Thanks!
>  
> All the best,
> Jake
>  
> 
> Dear Mark,
> 
> had a good laughing attack, reading your message.
> 
> The approach I have developed to improve on the role and task of the 
> "leader" goes like this:
> 
> 1. Contact:
> I get a call from someone, not necessarily the "leader", sometimes a 
> person from the OD department of the organization requesting an OST 
> event. This professional person, as anyone else, can really have a 
> number of assumptions about the organization she or he works for. After 
> listening for a very short while (since I dont want to get confused) I 
> suggest my standard procedure, a contact meeting with those that decide 
> on this event.
> 
> 2. Contact meeting face-to-face, never online or similar stuff:
> Usually three or four or five people (I suggested to the first caller 
> that it should be a bit of a diverse small group) gather for this 
> contact meeting which lasts exactly 1 hour and maybe 15 minutes. For 
> this meeting I dont charge anything regardless of the outcome. The 
> potential client simply pays the costs (if I have to fly to Paris and 
> spend a night there which happened in the early stage of the 300 leaders 
> with Muslims, Jews and Christians engaged in World Peace in Sevilla (HO 
> facilitated, I helped).)
> In this meeting I suggest the present folks have an exchange on what the 
> gathering is planned for (usually there is a pretty divergent response 
> but the central issue becomes clearer).
> After that I tell them about the 5 or 6 prerequites for an OST event and 
> have them exchange on those.
> At the end I also ask them how aware they are about the role of leaders 
> after an OST event in face of the fact that participants start to lead 
> themselves. Oh, yes, they exclaim, thats what we would love. Hmmm. I 
> also add that nobody from the organization should make any promises in 
> regard to the potential actions that people will engage in after the 
> event. Them then also leading will know what kind of support they need 
> and how to get it.
> Before leaveing I tell them to sleep over all this and give me a ring.
> If they call me and if I have a hunch that it will all work out, the 
> third step is the :
> 
> 3. Planning Meeting (preparatory meeting):
> A group of 8 to 35 people (thats the range I have experienced in my 
> career of working with OST) that the "leaders" selected, mirroring 
> approximately the expected participants, meet for exactly 3.5 hours to
> - exchange their expectations re the outcome (Thinking of the first 
> working day after the event, what has changed?)
> - develope the overall theme (in four steps: everyone for himself 
> followed by random small groups to come to one theme, followed by a 
> quick round of weighing the various themes, a round of three or four 
> that want to come to a final suggestion (in fishbowl with the rest of 
> the group watching, one empty chair for folks watching to come in and 
> make a suggestion and immeditately leaving the chair again) and fourth 
> an exchange of all to see whether the theme is it
> - a b

Re: [OSList] Why CERTIFICATION makes sense considering this conversation on Mission, Vision Strategy Plans, etc.

[R Chaffe via OSList]

Michael, 
I would add one thing and that open space is about a living evolving system, 
each “space” has unique characteristics that relate to that group at that time. 

I think I am saying that although the principles are the same effective open 
space will be unique to that time and those present.  The timing of events and 
the staging will suit the special space in the life of that group or 
organisation.  “It lives”.   There is a hymn that says “He lives in me and He 
lives in you.”. Open Space by definition will grow and organise itself as a 
self organising sustainable system.  How good is that!

Regards
Rob

> On 15 Aug 2019, at 5:08 am, Harrison Owen via OSList 
>  wrote:
> 
> Brilliant… Michael. Thank You!
>  
> ho
>  
> From: OSList [mailto:oslist-boun...@lists.openspacetech.org] On Behalf Of 
> Michael Herman via OSList
> Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2019 2:46 PM
> To: World wide Open Space Technology email list
> Cc: Michael Herman
> Subject: Re: [OSList] Why CERTIFICATION makes sense considering this 
> conversation on Mission, Vision Strategy Plans, etc.
>  
> Harrison, your likening OS to breathing is true enough.  And maybe 
> storytelling would be a better example.  Everyone tells stories, the audience 
> matters, your history matters, their history matters, what works in one 
> story/situation won't work in another.  Every invitation is a story.  What 
> matters is practice, and after telling a few stories, we can start to tell 
> stories about the stories we've invited people into.  
>  
> As for breaking into this invitation/story game, find a teacher, anyone who's 
> done it before, and share their stories a bit until someone lets us do you 
> first one.  The first time I tried to open space, the (Catholic church) 
> organizers were doubtful.  I told them stories I'd heard from you and others. 
>  Still doubtful, as those stories were about AT&T and other strange places, I 
> found a 68-year old nun you'd trained to tell her stories, who assured them 
> that "Catholics can indeed do this."  And I was on my way.  
>  
> From the standpoint of storytelling, OS is self-certifying.  Better to tell a 
> good story about "how I did it somewhere before" than tell a story or wave a 
> piece of paper that says "i paid for a training and so-and-so says i know 
> what i'm doing."  And getting started, better to rely on others' stories, 
> because we still need to be able to tell them in a way that encourages trust. 
>  We shape their stories into our own story of what's possible in this new 
> situation.  If, when, we succeed, we have been certified by our sponsors, 
> clients, organizers, colleagues.  These people can't outsource their work to 
> an OS certification body, they need to investigate the would-be 
> facilitator/leader for themselves, listen to and test and join the stories 
> that the aspiring facilitator can tell, and decide for themselves if this can 
> work for them.  Then they certify to the community that this event is worth 
> attending.  Then the facilitator certifies to the group that they are worth 
> listening to, and following.  It's all a very circular process in some ways.
>  
> It's also linear, so I want to put a plug in for "lineage."  It matters to 
> me, and has mattered to some clients perhaps along my way, that I have spent 
> time learning and practicing with Harrison and some of his oldest students.  
> They haven't necessarily met these folks, but they know some of their stories 
> from me and they know that I know these people.  Community and a line of 
> storytelling matters.  When I've sat with Tibetans teachers, even very high 
> lamas like Dalai Lama, they typically tell you right up front, "This is not 
> my teaching I'm going to give you, this is what I got from my teacher, who 
> got it from his teacher, who got it from her teacher..."  This kind of 
> expanding storytelling lineage is what allows for the wild diversification of 
> practice without a loss of potency.  In this way, each branch of the teaching 
> is an experiment, a test, in community, that can succeed or fail on its own.  
> The buddhists generally draw this as a lineage tree, with the root teacher at 
> the bottom, rather than a hierarchy with a certify chief or council at the 
> top.  Some branches might prove weak and fail, but that's okay.  There are 
> still many other connections to the root.
>  
> There is no need to certify practice, only to keep telling stories about our 
> connections to the root teacher and story.  At this point, Harrison has been 
> certified as root teacher by Berrett-Koehler, but that came many years after 
> he was certified by a community of practitioners who read the book where he 
> self-certified his own experiences with OS, where he told his own stories and 
> invited others to try them with and without him.  
>  
> So what we really need to do is keep going back to that root practice, shared 
> right up in the introduction to the user's guide, si

Re: [OSList] Why CERTIFICATION makes sense considering this conversation on Mission, Vision Strategy Plans, etc.

[R Chaffe via OSList]

Yes! Head and heart linked by a passion to serve.

Regards
Rob

> On 15 Aug 2019, at 2:05 am, Chris Corrigan via OSList 
>  wrote:
> 
> You do realize that Jesus never certified practitioners of Christianity, 
> right? And that subsequent attempts to do so basically created a toxic 
> blending of Church and Empire that contributed to mass amounts of suffering 
> through incredibly toxic and psychopathic uses of power and control for most 
> of the last 1700 years?
> 
> And I say that as a Christian who works with churches.  
> 
> Mark, just open space.  That’s what the world wants more of. It does not want 
> or need more  people running around saying they are certified to open space.  
> It truly doesn’t care. Your credentials mean nothing if you aren’t actually 
> opening space.  And if you are opening space, no one will care what your 
> credentials are.  The best OST meetings I’ve ever been a part of were 
> facilitated by people who had never done them before.  They cared about the 
> participants, they took care to follow the instructions, they took nothing 
> for granted, and they learned a lot about themselves and others.  Some of 
> these people were 14 years old. 
> 
> Coincidently, some of these people are also the best Christians I have ever 
> met, too, for the same reasons. 
> 
> Just do the work and share your learning and get better at it. That’s how I 
> learned, that’s how I support others and that’s my invitation to you. Resist 
> the devilish temptation to build an empire.
> 
> Chris
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Aug 14, 2019, at 8:39 AM, Mark Carmel via OSList 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Fascinating conversation. This is exactly why we need a certification-like 
>> program and an organizational structure for the future if we want to train 
>> people in the finer points of sustaining open space interventions over time 
>> as Chris has done. There is a lot more to it than just throwing out an 
>> invitation and opening up the market place. It is interesting to me that 
>> from the most seasoned open space masters the idea was instantly shot down, 
>> saying...we discussed that already... Now that is not what an open space 
>> facilitator normally does right? Shoot down other people's ideas. The world 
>> has evolved into one that respects credentials. Interestingly the ones who 
>> spoke the strongest against certification have already given themselves nice 
>> fancy titles. Which is wonderful.  Because credentials really do matter. 
>> Right now open space facilitators must give themself their own title and 
>> otherwise have no backing whatsoever to lend credibility to their self given 
>> titles. When you talk about overcoming the resistance of executives and with 
>> the retaliation nation nature of things now (look at Hong Kong) it makes 
>> sense to put some structure to the educational credentialing of OSTsters 
>> from apprentice  to Master to mentor.  In terms of VISION and MISSION and 
>> VALUES and STRATEGY, why is it that we facilitators want to apply that same 
>> organizational structure for ALL other organizations but resist doing the 
>> same for OUR work, to create OUR organization... What IS our vision...to 
>> hope the world magically organizes around OST... or to make it happen 
>> through a viable 1,000 year vision.  In his great book, Leadership Is,  
>> Harrison is spot on to define OST as the ONE way for leaders to be a 
>> caretaker of the Spirit.  We must not be naive to believe that leaders will 
>> not crush the Spirit once it emerges in Open Space. This requires highly 
>> advanced training to be able to navigate the process over decades of 
>> implementation.  ALL great decisions require great leadership. If OST ever 
>> gets an organization, I hope this idea will be considered by its leaders or 
>> of course someone else will do it or it will not be done. In some ways, or 
>> all ways, Harrison has created a new religion of Spirit and I hope that an 
>> organizational structure WILL be created kinda like that other dude who 
>> started out with 12 disciples. 
>> Peace,
>> Mark Carmel
>> 
>>> On Tue, Aug 13, 2019, 11:03 PM  
>>> wrote:
>>> Send OSList mailing list submissions to
>>> oslist@lists.openspacetech.org
>>> 
>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>> oslist-requ...@lists.openspacetech.org
>>> 
>>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>> oslist-ow...@lists.openspacetech.org
>>> 
>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>> than "Re: Contents of OSList digest..."
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Today's Topics:
>>> 
>>>1. Re: OST for Mission/Vision and Strategic Planning? (Chris Kloth)
>>>2. Re: OST for Mission/Vision and Strategic Planning? (Harrison Owen)
>>>3. Re: OST for Mission/Vision and Strategic Planning? (Peggy Holman)
>>>4. Re:

Re: [OSList] Why CERTIFICATION makes sense considering this conversation on Mission, Vision Strategy Plans, etc.

[doug via OSList]

Mark--

It has been my experience that people who want certification of anything
are the ones who want to do the certifying.

OST does have an organization. Several of them around the world.

:- Doug. Germann



On 8/14/19 11:39 AM, Mark Carmel via OSList wrote:
> Fascinating conversation. This is exactly why we need a
> certification-like program and an organizational structure for the
> future if we want to train people in the finer points of sustaining open
> space interventions over time as Chris has done. There is a lot more to
> it than just throwing out an invitation and opening up the market place.
> It is interesting to me that from the most seasoned open space masters
> the idea was instantly shot down, saying...we discussed that already...
> Now that is not what an open space facilitator normally does right?
> Shoot down other people's ideas. The world has evolved into one that
> respects credentials. Interestingly the ones who spoke the strongest
> against certification have already given themselves nice fancy titles.
> Which is wonderful.  Because credentials really do matter. Right now
> open space facilitators must give themself their own title and otherwise
> have no backing whatsoever to lend credibility to their self given
> titles. When you talk about overcoming the resistance of executives and
> with the retaliation nation nature of things now (look at Hong Kong) it
> makes sense to put some structure to the educational credentialing of
> OSTsters from apprentice  to Master to mentor.  In terms of VISION and
> MISSION and VALUES and STRATEGY, why is it that we facilitators want to
> apply that same organizational structure for ALL other organizations but
> resist doing the same for OUR work, to create OUR organization... What
> IS our vision...to hope the world magically organizes around OST... or
> to make it happen through a viable 1,000 year vision.  In his great
> book, Leadership Is,  Harrison is spot on to define OST as the ONE way
> for leaders to be a caretaker of the Spirit.  We must not be naive to
> believe that leaders will not crush the Spirit once it emerges in Open
> Space. This requires highly advanced training to be able to navigate the
> process over decades of implementation.  ALL great decisions require
> great leadership. If OST ever gets an organization, I hope this idea
> will be considered by its leaders or of course someone else will do it
> or it will not be done. In some ways, or all ways, Harrison has created
> a new religion of Spirit and I hope that an organizational structure
> WILL be created kinda like that other dude who started out with 12
> disciples. 
> Peace,
> Mark Carmel
> 
> On Tue, Aug 13, 2019, 11:03 PM  > wrote:
> 
> Send OSList mailing list submissions to
>         oslist@lists.openspacetech.org
> 
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>        
> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>         oslist-requ...@lists.openspacetech.org
> 
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>         oslist-ow...@lists.openspacetech.org
> 
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of OSList digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>    1. Re: OST for Mission/Vision and Strategic Planning? (Chris Kloth)
>    2. Re: OST for Mission/Vision and Strategic Planning? (Harrison Owen)
>    3. Re: OST for Mission/Vision and Strategic Planning? (Peggy Holman)
>    4. Re: OST for Mission/Vision and Strategic Planning? (Jake Yeager)
>    5. Open Space Hangout! Tues Aug 13, 12 PM EDT! (Tony Budak)
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2019 17:25:41 -0400
> From: Chris Kloth  >
> To: jacob.yea...@gmail.com 
> Cc: World wide Open Space Technology email list
>          >
> Subject: Re: [OSList] OST for Mission/Vision and Strategic Planning?
> Message-ID:
>         <20190812172541.20436ug8j3rp3...@tcsso-mail2.inetuhosted.net
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed"
> 
> Jake, I hope to get back to you by this weekend. I am in the middle of 
> a project with Prosecutor Impact (see Adam Foss' Ted Talk) that is 
> pretty consuming. I know I have the file somewhere.
> 
> That said, Michael's comment about what's on the wall triggered a 
> powerful memory. When I got to my site the night before we 

Re: [OSList] Why CERTIFICATION makes sense considering this conversation on Mission, Vision Strategy Plans, etc.

[Bhavesh Patel via OSList]

Hey Mark,

If you have passion for that, and in your freedom you want to take
responsibility for that, then please do what ever you feel called to do...
and the results will speak for themselves. None of us can control the space
for you. And one thing is for sure, we will learn from your experiments...


Smiles Bhav...



On Wed, 14 Aug 2019 at 18:18, Mark Carmel via OSList <
oslist@lists.openspacetech.org> wrote:

> Fascinating conversation. This is exactly why we need a certification-like
> program and an organizational structure for the future if we want to train
> people in the finer points of sustaining open space interventions over time
> as Chris has done. There is a lot more to it than just throwing out an
> invitation and opening up the market place. It is interesting to me that
> from the most seasoned open space masters the idea was instantly shot down,
> saying...we discussed that already... Now that is not what an open space
> facilitator normally does right? Shoot down other people's ideas. The world
> has evolved into one that respects credentials. Interestingly the ones who
> spoke the strongest against certification have already given themselves
> nice fancy titles. Which is wonderful.  Because credentials really do
> matter. Right now open space facilitators must give themself their own
> title and otherwise have no backing whatsoever to lend credibility to their
> self given titles. When you talk about overcoming the resistance of
> executives and with the retaliation nation nature of things now (look at
> Hong Kong) it makes sense to put some structure to the educational
> credentialing of OSTsters from apprentice  to Master to mentor.  In terms
> of VISION and MISSION and VALUES and STRATEGY, why is it that we
> facilitators want to apply that same organizational structure for ALL other
> organizations but resist doing the same for OUR work, to create OUR
> organization... What IS our vision...to hope the world magically organizes
> around OST... or to make it happen through a viable 1,000 year vision.  In
> his great book, Leadership Is,  Harrison is spot on to define OST as the
> ONE way for leaders to be a caretaker of the Spirit.  We must not be naive
> to believe that leaders will not crush the Spirit once it emerges in Open
> Space. This requires highly advanced training to be able to navigate the
> process over decades of implementation.  ALL great decisions require great
> leadership. If OST ever gets an organization, I hope this idea will be
> considered by its leaders or of course someone else will do it or it will
> not be done. In some ways, or all ways, Harrison has created a new religion
> of Spirit and I hope that an organizational structure WILL be created kinda
> like that other dude who started out with 12 disciples.
> Peace,
> Mark Carmel
>
> On Tue, Aug 13, 2019, 11:03 PM 
> wrote:
>
>> Send OSList mailing list submissions to
>> oslist@lists.openspacetech.org
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>
>> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> oslist-requ...@lists.openspacetech.org
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> oslist-ow...@lists.openspacetech.org
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of OSList digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>1. Re: OST for Mission/Vision and Strategic Planning? (Chris Kloth)
>>2. Re: OST for Mission/Vision and Strategic Planning? (Harrison Owen)
>>3. Re: OST for Mission/Vision and Strategic Planning? (Peggy Holman)
>>4. Re: OST for Mission/Vision and Strategic Planning? (Jake Yeager)
>>5. Open Space Hangout! Tues Aug 13, 12 PM EDT! (Tony Budak)
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2019 17:25:41 -0400
>> From: Chris Kloth 
>> To: jacob.yea...@gmail.com
>> Cc: World wide Open Space Technology email list
>> 
>> Subject: Re: [OSList] OST for Mission/Vision and Strategic Planning?
>> Message-ID:
>> <20190812172541.20436ug8j3rp3...@tcsso-mail2.inetuhosted.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed"
>>
>> Jake, I hope to get back to you by this weekend. I am in the middle of
>> a project with Prosecutor Impact (see Adam Foss' Ted Talk) that is
>> pretty consuming. I know I have the file somewhere.
>>
>> That said, Michael's comment about what's on the wall triggered a
>> powerful memory. When I got to my site the night before we were to
>> start a very resistant top executive made it clear to me that he
>> thought this approach a ridiculous waste of time. He also made it
>> clear that he was sure labor issues over wages and other workplace
>> issues would probably come up and that there was no way these could be
>> addressed in such a setting.
>>
>> I thanked him for sharing 

Re: [OSList] Why CERTIFICATION makes sense considering this conversation on Mission, Vision Strategy Plans, etc.

[Harrison Owen via OSList]

Brilliant… Michael. Thank You!

 

ho

 

From: OSList [mailto:oslist-boun...@lists.openspacetech.org] On Behalf Of 
Michael Herman via OSList
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2019 2:46 PM
To: World wide Open Space Technology email list
Cc: Michael Herman
Subject: Re: [OSList] Why CERTIFICATION makes sense considering this 
conversation on Mission, Vision Strategy Plans, etc.

 

Harrison, your likening OS to breathing is true enough.  And maybe storytelling 
would be a better example.  Everyone tells stories, the audience matters, your 
history matters, their history matters, what works in one story/situation won't 
work in another.  Every invitation is a story.  What matters is practice, and 
after telling a few stories, we can start to tell stories about the stories 
we've invited people into.  

 

As for breaking into this invitation/story game, find a teacher, anyone who's 
done it before, and share their stories a bit until someone lets us do you 
first one.  The first time I tried to open space, the (Catholic church) 
organizers were doubtful.  I told them stories I'd heard from you and others.  
Still doubtful, as those stories were about AT&T and other strange places, I 
found a 68-year old nun you'd trained to tell her stories, who assured them 
that "Catholics can indeed do this."  And I was on my way.  

 

>From the standpoint of storytelling, OS is self-certifying.  Better to tell a 
>good story about "how I did it somewhere before" than tell a story or wave a 
>piece of paper that says "i paid for a training and so-and-so says i know what 
>i'm doing."  And getting started, better to rely on others' stories, because 
>we still need to be able to tell them in a way that encourages trust.  We 
>shape their stories into our own story of what's possible in this new 
>situation.  If, when, we succeed, we have been certified by our sponsors, 
>clients, organizers, colleagues.  These people can't outsource their work to 
>an OS certification body, they need to investigate the would-be 
>facilitator/leader for themselves, listen to and test and join the stories 
>that the aspiring facilitator can tell, and decide for themselves if this can 
>work for them.  Then they certify to the community that this event is worth 
>attending.  Then the facilitator certifies to the group that they are worth 
>listening to, and following.  It's all a very circular process in some ways.

 

It's also linear, so I want to put a plug in for "lineage."  It matters to me, 
and has mattered to some clients perhaps along my way, that I have spent time 
learning and practicing with Harrison and some of his oldest students.  They 
haven't necessarily met these folks, but they know some of their stories from 
me and they know that I know these people.  Community and a line of 
storytelling matters.  When I've sat with Tibetans teachers, even very high 
lamas like Dalai Lama, they typically tell you right up front, "This is not my 
teaching I'm going to give you, this is what I got from my teacher, who got it 
from his teacher, who got it from her teacher..."  This kind of expanding 
storytelling lineage is what allows for the wild diversification of practice 
without a loss of potency.  In this way, each branch of the teaching is an 
experiment, a test, in community, that can succeed or fail on its own.  The 
buddhists generally draw this as a lineage tree, with the root teacher at the 
bottom, rather than a hierarchy with a certify chief or council at the top.  
Some branches might prove weak and fail, but that's okay.  There are still many 
other connections to the root.

 

There is no need to certify practice, only to keep telling stories about our 
connections to the root teacher and story.  At this point, Harrison has been 
certified as root teacher by Berrett-Koehler, but that came many years after he 
was certified by a community of practitioners who read the book where he 
self-certified his own experiences with OS, where he told his own stories and 
invited others to try them with and without him.  

 

So what we really need to do is keep going back to that root practice, shared 
right up in the introduction to the user's guide, simply and profoundly:  Try 
this this thing.  See what happens.  Tell the story.  Try it again and see if 
you can do it better.  Everything that comes after that in the user's guide is 
just one story of how it might work.

 

In this way, the answer to Jake's question to MMP a couple messages ago, about 
when does the length of the OS meeting get determined, the answer would be 
"before the event begins" in a thousand different stories about how/why/when 
the sponsors determined, with the facilitator (or not!) how long it should 
be... AND... it would be the same story for every single OS event all of us 
have ever facilitated... the duration was ultimately, i.e. in the end, 
determined by the participants themselves.

 

Michael

 




 
--

Michael Herman
Michael Herman Associates

312-28

Re: [OSList] Why CERTIFICATION makes sense considering this conversation on Mission, Vision Strategy Plans, etc.

[Michael Herman via OSList]

This reminds me of something else, Marai, that might I left out of my
previous response to Mark's question...

What is an new, uncertified, would-be, wanna-be facilitator to do about
cracking into this game?

I would say they should do just what you have done here, Marai, to tell
their own story... When I first found this "thing" I was... and there will
be all kinds of connections in that... "I was up late trying to think of
how to solve this community/organizational/technical/leadership/whatever
sort of problem or issue and i stumbled on this idea..."  and then anywhere
it goes, anything that made me think it might work "here" is the story I
can immediately and naturally tell my colleagues.  If they see it, we can
proceed.  If now, well it might not be time.

Alternatively, there is also the scenario where I stumble upon this OS
thing and I am the decision-maker, I am the one who could write the invite
and bring people together around the story/theme that is most important to
me.  So I go straight to the people I know and ask them to join me, to
address this issue that I think we might all care about.  This is even
better than the first scenario, because it goes straight to action, no
talking about process and design... just invite and get to work.  And in
this case, the "story" I tell is also same as yours, Marai.  It's still
what I call, "the story of how I/we got here."

And that is a story that anyone can tell.  Every time I work with a
leader/sponsor, I let them know they have three minutes (this thanks to
MMP, but that's another story) to welcome and address the people who've
gathered.  This "3-mins" always piques their curiosity and many think I
must have something very specific I want them to do, given that I know so
specifically how long is needed.  And I always suggest the same thing:
"simply tell the story of how we got here."

Sometimes that's the history of the company.   Sometimes it's the history
of the issue, or the journey the organizing committee traveled in choosing
this crazy way of meeting.  Sometimes it's even been how we traveled to
this conference, as 1/3 of the group was delayed by a snowstorm.  But it
always ends up being grounded in some purpose.  We always find the
organizing impetus in the chaos of the journey.

And then, when we make the agenda and everyone breaks out into the corners
of the room, without any instruction, the natural thing for each convener
to do is begin with something like, "Well, I guess we should start... Maybe
I will tell you something about how I got to writing these words in my
topic ..." and then the group directly or indirectly ends up going around
and others share their stories of how they got to thinking this issue was
important and how they decided to join this breakout and what they are
hoping might happen as a result.

And this is why I think OS is self-certifying, because it's always only
ever been about each of us certifying our own story, in the context of
working community.



--

Michael Herman
Michael Herman Associates
312-280-7838 (mobile)

http://MichaelHerman.com
http://OpenSpaceWorld.org




On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 12:24 PM Marai Kiele via OSList <
oslist@lists.openspacetech.org> wrote:

>
> Only takes one minute to explain, or one second to discover.
>
>
> Which I neither believe nor agree to, Paul.
>
> If it only took one minute to explain, wouldn’t this whole list, all of
> Harrison’s books, thousands of peoples postings, conversations, training
> materials etc all be totally obsolete?
> Why would we even have any further conversation about it?
>
> *
>
> In 2002, when first I read about OST for the first time, I „got“ it, on a
> deep spiritual level.
> Half a year later I went to my first OST, which happened to be a full 2,5
> days exposure.
> I was thoroughly impacted.
>
> Afterwards, I knew that I wanted to not only „use“ OST as a process, but I
> acknowledged it as a way of living.
> And I also knew I was setting myself up for quite a journey.
>
> I learned about practicalities of setting up OST with small and large
> numbers of people, and later in online settings.
> I learned about helping a group of people to discover a burning theme.
> About when to use it and when not.
> About presence and holding space.
> About becoming an embodiment of „Whatever happens…“ which to me is quit
> different than just declaring the principle, but not living it
> And so much more...
>
> Especially I learned about the difference of using OST as a one-time event
> (conference / annual meeting …) or within a long term project / an
> organisation.
>
> To me, that difference is like having one deep conversation on the train
> with a stranger (easy, at least for me)
> OR
> building a long-term relationship, really getting to know another, on good
> days and bad days, moving through conflict, evolving together over time
> (not so easy, at least not for me)
>
> Two quite different endeavours.
>
> Not something to learn within only one minute.
> But mayb

Re: [OSList] Why CERTIFICATION makes sense considering this conversation on Mission, Vision Strategy Plans, etc.

[Michael Herman via OSList]

Harrison, your likening OS to breathing is true enough.  And maybe
storytelling would be a better example.  Everyone tells stories, the
audience matters, your history matters, their history matters, what works
in one story/situation won't work in another.  Every invitation is a
story.  What matters is practice, and after telling a few stories, we can
start to tell stories about the stories we've invited people into.

As for breaking into this invitation/story game, find a teacher, anyone
who's done it before, and share their stories a bit until someone lets us
do you first one.  The first time I tried to open space, the (Catholic
church) organizers were doubtful.  I told them stories I'd heard from you
and others.  Still doubtful, as those stories were about AT&T and other
strange places, I found a 68-year old nun you'd trained to tell her
stories, who assured them that "Catholics can indeed do this."  And I was
on my way.

>From the standpoint of storytelling, OS is self-certifying.  Better to tell
a good story about "how I did it somewhere before" than tell a story or
wave a piece of paper that says "i paid for a training and so-and-so says i
know what i'm doing."  And getting started, better to rely on others'
stories, because we still need to be able to tell them in a way that
encourages trust.  We shape their stories into our own story of what's
possible in this new situation.  If, when, we succeed, we have been
certified by our sponsors, clients, organizers, colleagues.  These people
can't outsource their work to an OS certification body, they need to
investigate the would-be facilitator/leader for themselves, listen to and
test and join the stories that the aspiring facilitator can tell, and
decide for themselves if this can work for them.  Then they certify to the
community that this event is worth attending.  Then the facilitator
certifies to the group that they are worth listening to, and following.
It's all a very circular process in some ways.

It's also linear, so I want to put a plug in for "lineage."  It matters to
me, and has mattered to some clients perhaps along my way, that I have
spent time learning and practicing with Harrison and some of his oldest
students.  They haven't necessarily met these folks, but they know some of
their stories from me and they know that I know these people.  Community
and a line of storytelling matters.  When I've sat with Tibetans teachers,
even very high lamas like Dalai Lama, they typically tell you right up
front, "This is not my teaching I'm going to give you, this is what I got
from my teacher, who got it from his teacher, who got it from her
teacher..."  This kind of expanding storytelling lineage is what allows for
the wild diversification of practice without a loss of potency.  In this
way, each branch of the teaching is an experiment, a test, in community,
that can succeed or fail on its own.  The buddhists generally draw this as
a lineage tree, with the root teacher at the bottom, rather than a
hierarchy with a certify chief or council at the top.  Some branches might
prove weak and fail, but that's okay.  There are still many other
connections to the root.

There is no need to certify practice, only to keep telling stories about
our connections to the root teacher and story.  At this point, Harrison has
been certified as root teacher by Berrett-Koehler, but that came many years
after he was certified by a community of practitioners who read the book
where he self-certified his own experiences with OS, where he told his own
stories and invited others to try them with and without him.

So what we really need to do is keep going back to that root practice,
shared right up in the introduction to the user's guide, simply and
profoundly:  Try this this thing.  See what happens.  Tell the story.  Try
it again and see if you can do it better.  Everything that comes after that
in the user's guide is just one story of how it might work.

In this way, the answer to Jake's question to MMP a couple messages ago,
about when does the length of the OS meeting get determined, the answer
would be "before the event begins" in a thousand different stories about
how/why/when the sponsors determined, with the facilitator (or not!) how
long it should be... AND... it would be the same story for every single OS
event all of us have ever facilitated... the duration was ultimately, i.e.
in the end, determined by the participants themselves.

Michael



--

Michael Herman
Michael Herman Associates
312-280-7838 (mobile)

http://MichaelHerman.com
http://OpenSpaceWorld.org




On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 11:38 AM Chris Corrigan via OSList <
oslist@lists.openspacetech.org> wrote:

> Inspired by Harrison’s reflections here, I’ll offer one final thought on
> this thread, and then I’m out.  This is a well known story that is often
> used to apply to gossip, but I believe can be applied to the folly of
> trying to capture and encase what Harrison and and few thousand other
> people have

Re: [OSList] Why CERTIFICATION makes sense considering this conversation on Mission, Vision Strategy Plans, etc.

[Marai Kiele via OSList]

> Only takes one minute to explain, or one second to discover.

Which I neither believe nor agree to, Paul.

If it only took one minute to explain, wouldn’t this whole list, all of 
Harrison’s books, thousands of peoples postings, conversations, training 
materials etc all be totally obsolete?
Why would we even have any further conversation about it?

*

In 2002, when first I read about OST for the first time, I „got“ it, on a deep 
spiritual level. 
Half a year later I went to my first OST, which happened to be a full 2,5 days 
exposure.
I was thoroughly impacted.

Afterwards, I knew that I wanted to not only „use“ OST as a process, but I 
acknowledged it as a way of living.
And I also knew I was setting myself up for quite a journey. 

I learned about practicalities of setting up OST with small and large numbers 
of people, and later in online settings. 
I learned about helping a group of people to discover a burning theme. 
About when to use it and when not. 
About presence and holding space. 
About becoming an embodiment of „Whatever happens…“ which to me is quit 
different than just declaring the principle, but not living it
And so much more...

Especially I learned about the difference of using OST as a one-time event 
(conference / annual meeting …) or within a long term project / an organisation.

To me, that difference is like having one deep conversation on the train with a 
stranger (easy, at least for me) 
OR
building a long-term relationship, really getting to know another, on good days 
and bad days, moving through conflict, evolving together over time (not so 
easy, at least not for me)

Two quite different endeavours.

Not something to learn within only one minute.
But maybe I am just a very slow learner…

Marai

Joyful Together
Liberating Joy at Work
phone: +49 171-810 7161
www.about.me 

Virtual: Join the monthly
Global Oasis for Emerging Leaders 

In person: Join the OLS in Berlin, Nov 18 - 20, 2019
Open Leadership Symposium Berlin 


> Am 14.08.2019 um 19:38 schrieb paul levy via OSList 
> :
> 
> I'd never certify OST. Only takes one minute to explain, or one second to 
> discover.
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Paul Levy
> 
> Paul Levy
> Writer, facilitator, conversifier and collusion breaker
> 
> On Wed, 14 Aug 2019, 17:05 Chris Corrigan via OSList, 
> mailto:oslist@lists.openspacetech.org>> 
> wrote:
> You do realize that Jesus never certified practitioners of Christianity, 
> right? And that subsequent attempts to do so basically created a toxic 
> blending of Church and Empire that contributed to mass amounts of suffering 
> through incredibly toxic and psychopathic uses of power and control for most 
> of the last 1700 years?
> 
> And I say that as a Christian who works with churches.  
> 
> Mark, just open space.  That’s what the world wants more of. It does not want 
> or need more  people running around saying they are certified to open space.  
> It truly doesn’t care. Your credentials mean nothing if you aren’t actually 
> opening space.  And if you are opening space, no one will care what your 
> credentials are.  The best OST meetings I’ve ever been a part of were 
> facilitated by people who had never done them before.  They cared about the 
> participants, they took care to follow the instructions, they took nothing 
> for granted, and they learned a lot about themselves and others.  Some of 
> these people were 14 years old. 
> 
> Coincidently, some of these people are also the best Christians I have ever 
> met, too, for the same reasons. 
> 
> Just do the work and share your learning and get better at it. That’s how I 
> learned, that’s how I support others and that’s my invitation to you. Resist 
> the devilish temptation to build an empire.
> 
> Chris
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Aug 14, 2019, at 8:39 AM, Mark Carmel via OSList 
>> mailto:oslist@lists.openspacetech.org>> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Fascinating conversation. This is exactly why we need a certification-like 
>> program and an organizational structure for the future if we want to train 
>> people in the finer points of sustaining open space interventions over time 
>> as Chris has done. There is a lot more to it than just throwing out an 
>> invitation and opening up the market place. It is interesting to me that 
>> from the most seasoned open space masters the idea was instantly shot down, 
>> saying...we discussed that already... Now that is not what an open space 
>> facilitator normally does right? Shoot down other people's ideas. The world 
>> has evolved into one that respects credentials. Interestingly the ones who 
>> spoke the strongest against certification have already given themselves nice 
>> fancy titles. Which is wonderful.  Because credentials really do matter. 
>> Right now open space facilitators must give themself their own title an

Re: [OSList] Why CERTIFICATION makes sense considering this conversation on Mission, Vision Strategy Plans, etc.

[paul levy via OSList]

I'd never certify OST. Only takes one minute to explain, or one second to
discover.

Best wishes,

Paul Levy

Paul Levy
Writer, facilitator, conversifier and collusion breaker

On Wed, 14 Aug 2019, 17:05 Chris Corrigan via OSList, <
oslist@lists.openspacetech.org> wrote:

> You do realize that Jesus never certified practitioners of Christianity,
> right? And that subsequent attempts to do so basically created a toxic
> blending of Church and Empire that contributed to mass amounts of suffering
> through incredibly toxic and psychopathic uses of power and control for
> most of the last 1700 years?
>
> And I say that as a Christian who works with churches.
>
> Mark, just open space.  That’s what the world wants more of. It does not
> want or need more  people running around saying they are certified to open
> space.  It truly doesn’t care. Your credentials mean nothing if you aren’t
> actually opening space.  And if you are opening space, no one will care
> what your credentials are.  The best OST meetings I’ve ever been a part of
> were facilitated by people who had never done them before.  They cared
> about the participants, they took care to follow the instructions, they
> took nothing for granted, and they learned a lot about themselves and
> others.  Some of these people were 14 years old.
>
> Coincidently, some of these people are also the best Christians I have
> ever met, too, for the same reasons.
>
> Just do the work and share your learning and get better at it. That’s how
> I learned, that’s how I support others and that’s my invitation to you.
> Resist the devilish temptation to build an empire.
>
> Chris
>
>
>
>
>
> On Aug 14, 2019, at 8:39 AM, Mark Carmel via OSList <
> oslist@lists.openspacetech.org> wrote:
>
> Fascinating conversation. This is exactly why we need a certification-like
> program and an organizational structure for the future if we want to train
> people in the finer points of sustaining open space interventions over time
> as Chris has done. There is a lot more to it than just throwing out an
> invitation and opening up the market place. It is interesting to me that
> from the most seasoned open space masters the idea was instantly shot down,
> saying...we discussed that already... Now that is not what an open space
> facilitator normally does right? Shoot down other people's ideas. The world
> has evolved into one that respects credentials. Interestingly the ones who
> spoke the strongest against certification have already given themselves
> nice fancy titles. Which is wonderful.  Because credentials really do
> matter. Right now open space facilitators must give themself their own
> title and otherwise have no backing whatsoever to lend credibility to their
> self given titles. When you talk about overcoming the resistance of
> executives and with the retaliation nation nature of things now (look at
> Hong Kong) it makes sense to put some structure to the educational
> credentialing of OSTsters from apprentice  to Master to mentor.  In terms
> of VISION and MISSION and VALUES and STRATEGY, why is it that we
> facilitators want to apply that same organizational structure for ALL other
> organizations but resist doing the same for OUR work, to create OUR
> organization... What IS our vision...to hope the world magically organizes
> around OST... or to make it happen through a viable 1,000 year vision.  In
> his great book, Leadership Is,  Harrison is spot on to define OST as the
> ONE way for leaders to be a caretaker of the Spirit.  We must not be naive
> to believe that leaders will not crush the Spirit once it emerges in Open
> Space. This requires highly advanced training to be able to navigate the
> process over decades of implementation.  ALL great decisions require great
> leadership. If OST ever gets an organization, I hope this idea will be
> considered by its leaders or of course someone else will do it or it will
> not be done. In some ways, or all ways, Harrison has created a new religion
> of Spirit and I hope that an organizational structure WILL be created kinda
> like that other dude who started out with 12 disciples.
> Peace,
> Mark Carmel
>
> On Tue, Aug 13, 2019, 11:03 PM 
> wrote:
>
>> Send OSList mailing list submissions to
>> oslist@lists.openspacetech.org
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>
>> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of OSList digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>1. Re: OST for Mission/Vision and Strategic Planning? (Chris Kloth)
>>2. Re: OST for Mission/Vision and Strategic Planning? (Harrison Owen)
>>3. Re: OST for Mission/Vision and Strategic Planni

Re: [OSList] Why CERTIFICATION makes sense considering this conversation on Mission, Vision Strategy Plans, etc.

[Chris Corrigan via OSList]

Inspired by Harrison’s reflections here, I’ll offer one final thought on this 
thread, and then I’m out.  This is a well known story that is often used to 
apply to gossip, but I believe can be applied to the folly of trying to capture 
and encase what Harrison and and few thousand other people have let loose on 
the world:

https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/812861/jewish/A-Pillow-Full-of-Feathers.htm
 


Enjoy.  I love a good parable.  

Chris

> On Aug 14, 2019, at 10:24 AM, Harrison Owen via OSList 
>  wrote:
> 
> Actually, I beg to differ. As one who has been in the Open Space game as long 
> as anyone, I suppose – the whole possibility of certification (or whatever, 
> by which ever name) is a) oxymoronic, b) technically dubious (I can’t imagine 
> how you would actually do it), and strategically a bad play. 
> Teaching/certifying Open Space is rather like certifying breathing … a 
> natural activity which comes with our existence. It is true that some people 
> learn to do it (breathing) better … Olympic Athletes for example … but it 
> really is a natural act. Opening space is a natural act. Some do it better 
> than others … but it is what we do. Creating a Certification program for 
> enabling that boggles my mind. Right up there with creating a “certification 
> program” for being “human.”  B) Technically dubious… Every situation is so 
> contextually defined that any criteria for performance (certification) would 
> be so limited as to be not useful. Translated that would mean something like 
> – would Open Space Certification guarantee that the individual would work 
> with equal effectiveness with Afghanis and North American White Supremacists? 
> I doubt that, and more than that… it all seems to happen very naturally all 
> by itself, has for a number of years … (with absolutely NO Program, OST is 
> now a worldwide phenomenon). C) Strategically a bad play… Fact is, OST is the 
> control oriented, certification aficionada, managers -- worst nightmare.  If 
> it actually did what 30+ years of global experience seems to demonstrate that 
> it does… Much if not all of what currently is the “lode star” of managerial 
> competence, “CONTROL” … Never happened. But we can’t let that secret out. 
> Blow our cover! However, if you quietly open space wherever, whenever, 
> however, about what ever… as often as you can – Magic does seem to happen. 
> And the truth is ( my truth) is that anybody can do it. 
>  
> ho
>  
> From: OSList [mailto:oslist-boun...@lists.openspacetech.org] On Behalf Of 
> David Osborne via OSList
> Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2019 12:33 PM
> To: World wide Open Space Technology email list
> Cc: David Osborne; Mark Carmel
> Subject: Re: [OSList] Why CERTIFICATION makes sense considering this 
> conversation on Mission, Vision Strategy Plans, etc.
>  
> Great thoughtful post Mark. Thanks for stimulating my thinking, reflection 
> and imagination. 
>  
> David
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Aug 14, 2019, at 11:39 AM, Mark Carmel via OSList 
> mailto:oslist@lists.openspacetech.org>> 
> wrote:
> 
>> Fascinating conversation. This is exactly why we need a certification-like 
>> program and an organizational structure for the future if we want to train 
>> people in the finer points of sustaining open space interventions over time 
>> as Chris has done. There is a lot more to it than just throwing out an 
>> invitation and opening up the market place. It is interesting to me that 
>> from the most seasoned open space masters the idea was instantly shot down, 
>> saying...we discussed that already... Now that is not what an open space 
>> facilitator normally does right? Shoot down other people's ideas. The world 
>> has evolved into one that respects credentials. Interestingly the ones who 
>> spoke the strongest against certification have already given themselves nice 
>> fancy titles. Which is wonderful.  Because credentials really do matter. 
>> Right now open space facilitators must give themself their own title and 
>> otherwise have no backing whatsoever to lend credibility to their self given 
>> titles. When you talk about overcoming the resistance of executives and with 
>> the retaliation nation nature of things now (look at Hong Kong) it makes 
>> sense to put some structure to the educational credentialing of OSTsters 
>> from apprentice  to Master to mentor.  In terms of VISION and MISSION and 
>> VALUES and STRATEGY, why is it that we facilitators want to apply that same 
>> organizational structure for ALL other organizations but resist doing the 
>> same for OUR work, to create OUR organization... What IS our vision...to 
>> hope the world magically organizes around OST... or to make it happen 
>> through a viable 1,000 year vision.  In his great book, Leadership Is,  
>> Harrison is spot on to define OST as the ONE way for leaders to be a 
>> caretaker of the Spir

Re: [OSList] Why CERTIFICATION makes sense considering this conversation on Mission, Vision Strategy Plans, etc.

[Harrison Owen via OSList]

Actually, I beg to differ. As one who has been in the Open Space game as long 
as anyone, I suppose – the whole possibility of certification (or whatever, by 
which ever name) is a) oxymoronic, b) technically dubious (I can’t imagine how 
you would actually do it), and strategically a bad play. Teaching/certifying 
Open Space is rather like certifying breathing … a natural activity which comes 
with our existence. It is true that some people learn to do it (breathing) 
better … Olympic Athletes for example … but it really is a natural act. Opening 
space is a natural act. Some do it better than others … but it is what we do. 
Creating a Certification program for enabling that boggles my mind. Right up 
there with creating a “certification program” for being “human.”  B) 
Technically dubious… Every situation is so contextually defined that any 
criteria for performance (certification) would be so limited as to be not 
useful. Translated that would mean something like – would Open Space 
Certification guarantee that the individual would work with equal effectiveness 
with Afghanis and North American White Supremacists? I doubt that, and more 
than that… it all seems to happen very naturally all by itself, has for a 
number of years … (with absolutely NO Program, OST is now a worldwide 
phenomenon). C) Strategically a bad play… Fact is, OST is the control oriented, 
certification aficionada, managers -- worst nightmare.  If it actually did what 
30+ years of global experience seems to demonstrate that it does… Much if not 
all of what currently is the “lode star” of managerial competence, “CONTROL” … 
Never happened. But we can’t let that secret out. Blow our cover! However, if 
you quietly open space wherever, whenever, however, about what ever… as often 
as you can – Magic does seem to happen. And the truth is ( my truth) is that 
anybody can do it. 

 

ho

 

From: OSList [mailto:oslist-boun...@lists.openspacetech.org] On Behalf Of David 
Osborne via OSList
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2019 12:33 PM
To: World wide Open Space Technology email list
Cc: David Osborne; Mark Carmel
Subject: Re: [OSList] Why CERTIFICATION makes sense considering this 
conversation on Mission, Vision Strategy Plans, etc.

 

Great thoughtful post Mark. Thanks for stimulating my thinking, reflection and 
imagination. 

 

David

Sent from my iPhone


On Aug 14, 2019, at 11:39 AM, Mark Carmel via OSList 
 wrote:

Fascinating conversation. This is exactly why we need a certification-like 
program and an organizational structure for the future if we want to train 
people in the finer points of sustaining open space interventions over time as 
Chris has done. There is a lot more to it than just throwing out an invitation 
and opening up the market place. It is interesting to me that from the most 
seasoned open space masters the idea was instantly shot down, saying...we 
discussed that already... Now that is not what an open space facilitator 
normally does right? Shoot down other people's ideas. The world has evolved 
into one that respects credentials. Interestingly the ones who spoke the 
strongest against certification have already given themselves nice fancy 
titles. Which is wonderful.  Because credentials really do matter. Right now 
open space facilitators must give themself their own title and otherwise have 
no backing whatsoever to lend credibility to their self given titles. When you 
talk about overcoming the resistance of executives and with the retaliation 
nation nature of things now (look at Hong Kong) it makes sense to put some 
structure to the educational credentialing of OSTsters from apprentice  to 
Master to mentor.  In terms of VISION and MISSION and VALUES and STRATEGY, why 
is it that we facilitators want to apply that same organizational structure for 
ALL other organizations but resist doing the same for OUR work, to create OUR 
organization... What IS our vision...to hope the world magically organizes 
around OST... or to make it happen through a viable 1,000 year vision.  In his 
great book, Leadership Is,  Harrison is spot on to define OST as the ONE way 
for leaders to be a caretaker of the Spirit.  We must not be naive to believe 
that leaders will not crush the Spirit once it emerges in Open Space. This 
requires highly advanced training to be able to navigate the process over 
decades of implementation.  ALL great decisions require great leadership. If 
OST ever gets an organization, I hope this idea will be considered by its 
leaders or of course someone else will do it or it will not be done. In some 
ways, or all ways, Harrison has created a new religion of Spirit and I hope 
that an organizational structure WILL be created kinda like that other dude who 
started out with 12 disciples. 

Peace,

Mark Carmel

 

On Tue, Aug 13, 2019, 11:03 PM  wrote:

Send OSList mailing list submissions to
oslist@lists.openspacetech.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
htt

[OSList] Why CERTIFICATION makes sense considering this conversation on Mission, Vision Strategy Plans, etc. WHY JESUS SHOULD HAVE set certification criteria...

[Mark Carmel via OSList]

Chris Corrigan thank you . You just hit the nail on the head giving fodder
the argument FOR certification.  You're right Jesus did not certify
practitioners. He left it to human nature. Then women were banned so the
men could continue to control the women (and children). Jesus did set the
Strategy with his disciples: What to do.  But did not set the Tactics: How
to do it. Every good strategic plan has strategies AND  tactics to
implement strategies, right...  What IF Jesus certified
practitioners...would he have banned women, etc Had Jesus set the
implementation tactical guidelines then perhaps it would not have become so
duplicitous.  Jesus is the best example of a person being crucified for
honesty in speaking out about what he saw as right and wrong in the empire.
. Harrison Owen thank you for giving us our Bible...and religion.
Godspeed to ALL in implementing it.
Mark Carmel
MC the MC - Global Guru of Peace and Human Understanding - Desciple and
Friend of the GREAT LEADER Harrison Owen...



On Wed, Aug 14, 2019, 10:05 AM Chris Corrigan 
wrote:

> You do realize that Jesus never certified practitioners of Christianity,
> right? And that subsequent attempts to do so basically created a toxic
> blending of Church and Empire that contributed to mass amounts of suffering
> through incredibly toxic and psychopathic uses of power and control for
> most of the last 1700 years?
>
> And I say that as a Christian who works with churches.
>
> Mark, just open space.  That’s what the world wants more of. It does not
> want or need more  people running around saying they are certified to open
> space.  It truly doesn’t care. Your credentials mean nothing if you aren’t
> actually opening space.  And if you are opening space, no one will care
> what your credentials are.  The best OST meetings I’ve ever been a part of
> were facilitated by people who had never done them before.  They cared
> about the participants, they took care to follow the instructions, they
> took nothing for granted, and they learned a lot about themselves and
> others.  Some of these people were 14 years old.
>
> Coincidently, some of these people are also the best Christians I have
> ever met, too, for the same reasons.
>
> Just do the work and share your learning and get better at it. That’s how
> I learned, that’s how I support others and that’s my invitation to you.
> Resist the devilish temptation to build an empire.
>
> Chris
>
>
>
>
>
> On Aug 14, 2019, at 8:39 AM, Mark Carmel via OSList <
> oslist@lists.openspacetech.org> wrote:
>
> Fascinating conversation. This is exactly why we need a certification-like
> program and an organizational structure for the future if we want to train
> people in the finer points of sustaining open space interventions over time
> as Chris has done. There is a lot more to it than just throwing out an
> invitation and opening up the market place. It is interesting to me that
> from the most seasoned open space masters the idea was instantly shot down,
> saying...we discussed that already... Now that is not what an open space
> facilitator normally does right? Shoot down other people's ideas. The world
> has evolved into one that respects credentials. Interestingly the ones who
> spoke the strongest against certification have already given themselves
> nice fancy titles. Which is wonderful.  Because credentials really do
> matter. Right now open space facilitators must give themself their own
> title and otherwise have no backing whatsoever to lend credibility to their
> self given titles. When you talk about overcoming the resistance of
> executives and with the retaliation nation nature of things now (look at
> Hong Kong) it makes sense to put some structure to the educational
> credentialing of OSTsters from apprentice  to Master to mentor.  In terms
> of VISION and MISSION and VALUES and STRATEGY, why is it that we
> facilitators want to apply that same organizational structure for ALL other
> organizations but resist doing the same for OUR work, to create OUR
> organization... What IS our vision...to hope the world magically organizes
> around OST... or to make it happen through a viable 1,000 year vision.  In
> his great book, Leadership Is,  Harrison is spot on to define OST as the
> ONE way for leaders to be a caretaker of the Spirit.  We must not be naive
> to believe that leaders will not crush the Spirit once it emerges in Open
> Space. This requires highly advanced training to be able to navigate the
> process over decades of implementation.  ALL great decisions require great
> leadership. If OST ever gets an organization, I hope this idea will be
> considered by its leaders or of course someone else will do it or it will
> not be done. In some ways, or all ways, Harrison has created a new religion
> of Spirit and I hope that an organizational structure WILL be created kinda
> like that other dude who started out with 12 disciples.
> Peace,
> Mark Carmel
>
> On Tue, Aug 13, 2019, 11:03 PM 
> w

Re: [OSList] Why CERTIFICATION makes sense considering this conversation on Mission, Vision Strategy Plans, etc.

[Mark Carmel via OSList]

Chris, thank you for your response.  However, an Empire is defined as an
authoritarian organization of countries, or people, under single rule like
the Roman empire. The chuch's first rule of becoming certified as high
priest is that women are not allowed In.  We see how that worked out...
That is not OS and is not what I recommend. So please do not misunderstand
my intent. I am not calling for empire building or authoritarianism, but
calling for organization of an Educational Institute to train and educate
those who facilitate OST in the world of empire building WE all live in. If
we leave it to mother nature to do it out of Spirit alone we could be
waiting another 4,000 years.  How to prepare facilitators and participants
to face the inevitable pushback from their own leaders (like now) or from
leaders of empires once raw honesty is put out there is an advanced skill
set.  One that will help or hurt outcomes. Chris, you are spot on to invoke
the Devil. Because the Devil always attacks honesty that exposes the
hidden, dishonest agendas of leaders who proudly open space only to crush
those who are Too honest for their liking. Therein lies a significant
learning moment to train facilitators in the ability to discern
authenticity in the leadership before engaging. Dishonesty has become the
new trend in management and leadership. Just look at the state of American
politics and media coverage of it. The number one contraindiction as HO
aptly defines it, in my experience is dishonest leadership. This must be
discerned first, as only one of the teaching lessons for all future
facilitators. Otherwise good, honest participants and their facilitators
are given up to the devilish empire builders you describe.  Especially in
the great
US of A democracy that has become Retaliation Nation.
Thanks again Chris!
Miss you having not seen you since Dulles.
Peace!
MC

On Wed, Aug 14, 2019, 10:05 AM Chris Corrigan 
wrote:

> You do realize that Jesus never certified practitioners of Christianity,
> right? And that subsequent attempts to do so basically created a toxic
> blending of Church and Empire that contributed to mass amounts of suffering
> through incredibly toxic and psychopathic uses of power and control for
> most of the last 1700 years?
>
> And I say that as a Christian who works with churches.
>
> Mark, just open space.  That’s what the world wants more of. It does not
> want or need more  people running around saying they are certified to open
> space.  It truly doesn’t care. Your credentials mean nothing if you aren’t
> actually opening space.  And if you are opening space, no one will care
> what your credentials are.  The best OST meetings I’ve ever been a part of
> were facilitated by people who had never done them before.  They cared
> about the participants, they took care to follow the instructions, they
> took nothing for granted, and they learned a lot about themselves and
> others.  Some of these people were 14 years old.
>
> Coincidently, some of these people are also the best Christians I have
> ever met, too, for the same reasons.
>
> Just do the work and share your learning and get better at it. That’s how
> I learned, that’s how I support others and that’s my invitation to you.
> Resist the devilish temptation to build an empire.
>
> Chris
>
>
>
>
>
> On Aug 14, 2019, at 8:39 AM, Mark Carmel via OSList <
> oslist@lists.openspacetech.org> wrote:
>
> Fascinating conversation. This is exactly why we need a certification-like
> program and an organizational structure for the future if we want to train
> people in the finer points of sustaining open space interventions over time
> as Chris has done. There is a lot more to it than just throwing out an
> invitation and opening up the market place. It is interesting to me that
> from the most seasoned open space masters the idea was instantly shot down,
> saying...we discussed that already... Now that is not what an open space
> facilitator normally does right? Shoot down other people's ideas. The world
> has evolved into one that respects credentials. Interestingly the ones who
> spoke the strongest against certification have already given themselves
> nice fancy titles. Which is wonderful.  Because credentials really do
> matter. Right now open space facilitators must give themself their own
> title and otherwise have no backing whatsoever to lend credibility to their
> self given titles. When you talk about overcoming the resistance of
> executives and with the retaliation nation nature of things now (look at
> Hong Kong) it makes sense to put some structure to the educational
> credentialing of OSTsters from apprentice  to Master to mentor.  In terms
> of VISION and MISSION and VALUES and STRATEGY, why is it that we
> facilitators want to apply that same organizational structure for ALL other
> organizations but resist doing the same for OUR work, to create OUR
> organization... What IS our vision...to hope the world magically organizes
> around OST...

Re: [OSList] Why CERTIFICATION makes sense considering this conversation on Mission, Vision Strategy Plans, etc.

[David Osborne via OSList]

Great thoughtful post Mark. Thanks for stimulating my thinking, reflection and 
imagination. 

David

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 14, 2019, at 11:39 AM, Mark Carmel via OSList 
>  wrote:
> 
> Fascinating conversation. This is exactly why we need a certification-like 
> program and an organizational structure for the future if we want to train 
> people in the finer points of sustaining open space interventions over time 
> as Chris has done. There is a lot more to it than just throwing out an 
> invitation and opening up the market place. It is interesting to me that from 
> the most seasoned open space masters the idea was instantly shot down, 
> saying...we discussed that already... Now that is not what an open space 
> facilitator normally does right? Shoot down other people's ideas. The world 
> has evolved into one that respects credentials. Interestingly the ones who 
> spoke the strongest against certification have already given themselves nice 
> fancy titles. Which is wonderful.  Because credentials really do matter. 
> Right now open space facilitators must give themself their own title and 
> otherwise have no backing whatsoever to lend credibility to their self given 
> titles. When you talk about overcoming the resistance of executives and with 
> the retaliation nation nature of things now (look at Hong Kong) it makes 
> sense to put some structure to the educational credentialing of OSTsters from 
> apprentice  to Master to mentor.  In terms of VISION and MISSION and VALUES 
> and STRATEGY, why is it that we facilitators want to apply that same 
> organizational structure for ALL other organizations but resist doing the 
> same for OUR work, to create OUR organization... What IS our vision...to hope 
> the world magically organizes around OST... or to make it happen through a 
> viable 1,000 year vision.  In his great book, Leadership Is,  Harrison is 
> spot on to define OST as the ONE way for leaders to be a caretaker of the 
> Spirit.  We must not be naive to believe that leaders will not crush the 
> Spirit once it emerges in Open Space. This requires highly advanced training 
> to be able to navigate the process over decades of implementation.  ALL great 
> decisions require great leadership. If OST ever gets an organization, I hope 
> this idea will be considered by its leaders or of course someone else will do 
> it or it will not be done. In some ways, or all ways, Harrison has created a 
> new religion of Spirit and I hope that an organizational structure WILL be 
> created kinda like that other dude who started out with 12 disciples. 
> Peace,
> Mark Carmel
> 
>> On Tue, Aug 13, 2019, 11:03 PM  
>> wrote:
>> Send OSList mailing list submissions to
>> oslist@lists.openspacetech.org
>> 
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> oslist-requ...@lists.openspacetech.org
>> 
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> oslist-ow...@lists.openspacetech.org
>> 
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of OSList digest..."
>> 
>> 
>> Today's Topics:
>> 
>>1. Re: OST for Mission/Vision and Strategic Planning? (Chris Kloth)
>>2. Re: OST for Mission/Vision and Strategic Planning? (Harrison Owen)
>>3. Re: OST for Mission/Vision and Strategic Planning? (Peggy Holman)
>>4. Re: OST for Mission/Vision and Strategic Planning? (Jake Yeager)
>>5. Open Space Hangout! Tues Aug 13, 12 PM EDT! (Tony Budak)
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2019 17:25:41 -0400
>> From: Chris Kloth 
>> To: jacob.yea...@gmail.com
>> Cc: World wide Open Space Technology email list
>> 
>> Subject: Re: [OSList] OST for Mission/Vision and Strategic Planning?
>> Message-ID:
>> <20190812172541.20436ug8j3rp3...@tcsso-mail2.inetuhosted.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed"
>> 
>> Jake, I hope to get back to you by this weekend. I am in the middle of  
>> a project with Prosecutor Impact (see Adam Foss' Ted Talk) that is  
>> pretty consuming. I know I have the file somewhere.
>> 
>> That said, Michael's comment about what's on the wall triggered a  
>> powerful memory. When I got to my site the night before we were to  
>> start a very resistant top executive made it clear to me that he  
>> thought this approach a ridiculous waste of time. He also made it  
>> clear that he was sure labor issues over wages and other workplace  
>> issues would probably come up and that there was no way these could be  
>> addressed in such a setting.
>> 
>> I thanked him for sharing his concerns and observed that labor issues  
>> would probably come up if it mattered to those in the room and  
>> requested that he trust me that it would be ok

Re: [OSList] Why CERTIFICATION makes sense considering this conversation on Mission, Vision Strategy Plans, etc.

[Harrison Owen via OSList]

YES!

 

ho

 

From: OSList [mailto:oslist-boun...@lists.openspacetech.org] On Behalf Of Chris 
Corrigan via OSList
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2019 12:06 PM
To: World wide Open Space Technology email list
Cc: Chris Corrigan; Mark Carmel
Subject: Re: [OSList] Why CERTIFICATION makes sense considering this 
conversation on Mission, Vision Strategy Plans, etc.

 

You do realize that Jesus never certified practitioners of Christianity, right? 
And that subsequent attempts to do so basically created a toxic blending of 
Church and Empire that contributed to mass amounts of suffering through 
incredibly toxic and psychopathic uses of power and control for most of the 
last 1700 years?

 

And I say that as a Christian who works with churches.  

 

Mark, just open space.  That’s what the world wants more of. It does not want 
or need more  people running around saying they are certified to open space.  
It truly doesn’t care. Your credentials mean nothing if you aren’t actually 
opening space.  And if you are opening space, no one will care what your 
credentials are.  The best OST meetings I’ve ever been a part of were 
facilitated by people who had never done them before.  They cared about the 
participants, they took care to follow the instructions, they took nothing for 
granted, and they learned a lot about themselves and others.  Some of these 
people were 14 years old. 

 

Coincidently, some of these people are also the best Christians I have ever 
met, too, for the same reasons. 

 

Just do the work and share your learning and get better at it. That’s how I 
learned, that’s how I support others and that’s my invitation to you. Resist 
the devilish temptation to build an empire.

 

Chris

 

 

 

 





On Aug 14, 2019, at 8:39 AM, Mark Carmel via OSList 
 wrote:

 

Fascinating conversation. This is exactly why we need a certification-like 
program and an organizational structure for the future if we want to train 
people in the finer points of sustaining open space interventions over time as 
Chris has done. There is a lot more to it than just throwing out an invitation 
and opening up the market place. It is interesting to me that from the most 
seasoned open space masters the idea was instantly shot down, saying...we 
discussed that already... Now that is not what an open space facilitator 
normally does right? Shoot down other people's ideas. The world has evolved 
into one that respects credentials. Interestingly the ones who spoke the 
strongest against certification have already given themselves nice fancy 
titles. Which is wonderful.  Because credentials really do matter. Right now 
open space facilitators must give themself their own title and otherwise have 
no backing whatsoever to lend credibility to their self given titles. When you 
talk about overcoming the resistance of executives and with the retaliation 
nation nature of things now (look at Hong Kong) it makes sense to put some 
structure to the educational credentialing of OSTsters from apprentice  to 
Master to mentor.  In terms of VISION and MISSION and VALUES and STRATEGY, why 
is it that we facilitators want to apply that same organizational structure for 
ALL other organizations but resist doing the same for OUR work, to create OUR 
organization... What IS our vision...to hope the world magically organizes 
around OST... or to make it happen through a viable 1,000 year vision.  In his 
great book, Leadership Is,  Harrison is spot on to define OST as the ONE way 
for leaders to be a caretaker of the Spirit.  We must not be naive to believe 
that leaders will not crush the Spirit once it emerges in Open Space. This 
requires highly advanced training to be able to navigate the process over 
decades of implementation.  ALL great decisions require great leadership. If 
OST ever gets an organization, I hope this idea will be considered by its 
leaders or of course someone else will do it or it will not be done. In some 
ways, or all ways, Harrison has created a new religion of Spirit and I hope 
that an organizational structure WILL be created kinda like that other dude who 
started out with 12 disciples. 

Peace,

Mark Carmel

 

On Tue, Aug 13, 2019, 11:03 PM  wrote:

Send OSList mailing list submissions to
oslist@lists.openspacetech.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
oslist-requ...@lists.openspacetech.org

You can reach the person managing the list at
oslist-ow...@lists.openspacetech.org

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of OSList digest..."


Today's Topics:

   1. Re: OST for Mission/Vision and Strategic Planning? (Chris Kloth)
   2. Re: OST for Mission/Vision and Strategic Planning? (Harrison Owen)
   3. Re: OST for Mission/Vision and Strategic Planning? (Peggy Holman)
   4. Re: O

Re: [OSList] Trello Boards & Open Space

[Tony Budak via OSList]

Hi Michael,

Thanks so much for taking time to send a fascinating reply. It's a bit 
over the top for me to quickly comprehend. I do see the critical thought 
that went in to the "Task Cards".  It's is simply "super". Thanks again. 
I will study your thoughts.


Thanks for the great point emphasizing, my miss use of explain as in 
experience. Yes of course, doing with as an experience to live is my 
deep intention, but my use of words were not good. Yes, the language is 
so very important, Thank again.


Hope some day to interview you. All my contact info is here:
Please CLICK the following to set up meeting details.
https://pickatime.acuityscheduling.com/

Thanks for creating our tomorrows,
Tony


On 8/14/2019 2:27 AM, Michael M Pannwitz via OSList wrote:
Looking at the invitation to share, I share the "Task Cards for 
Setting up an Open Space event" (first published in 2006 with 6 
editions, the latest in 2013), structured in 3 stages: "To do!", "In 
progress!" and "Done!".
It provides Task Cards for three stages of an OST event (41 in yellow 
for setting up, 18 in blue for the time the OST is running and 10 in 
green for the Outlook and Action Planning phase.)
The sixth edition of the  2013 edition "set" comes with a two page "A 
User's Guide" (all editions were published both in English and German, 
some other language versions appeared in Chinese, Polish, Ukrainian, 
Dutch...).


This does not "explain" OST. It allows for an "experience" for those 
that set up an OST event (usually 3 or a few more, depending on the 
size of the event, in Würzburg with 2000+ participants we were 12).
Even if none of such a group know much or nothing about OST they can 
selforganize their work in setting up the event effectively, having fun.


Greetings from Berlin
mmp


Am 14.08.2019 um 05:07 schrieb Tony Budak via OSList:
2- And share if you know about a Trello Board explaining Open Space 
Tech  as  in "to do, doing, done" with OST as the Board content, 
empty process only?



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Re: [OSList] Why CERTIFICATION makes sense considering this conversation on Mission, Vision Strategy Plans, etc.

[Chris Corrigan via OSList]

You do realize that Jesus never certified practitioners of Christianity, right? 
And that subsequent attempts to do so basically created a toxic blending of 
Church and Empire that contributed to mass amounts of suffering through 
incredibly toxic and psychopathic uses of power and control for most of the 
last 1700 years?

And I say that as a Christian who works with churches.  

Mark, just open space.  That’s what the world wants more of. It does not want 
or need more  people running around saying they are certified to open space.  
It truly doesn’t care. Your credentials mean nothing if you aren’t actually 
opening space.  And if you are opening space, no one will care what your 
credentials are.  The best OST meetings I’ve ever been a part of were 
facilitated by people who had never done them before.  They cared about the 
participants, they took care to follow the instructions, they took nothing for 
granted, and they learned a lot about themselves and others.  Some of these 
people were 14 years old. 

Coincidently, some of these people are also the best Christians I have ever 
met, too, for the same reasons. 

Just do the work and share your learning and get better at it. That’s how I 
learned, that’s how I support others and that’s my invitation to you. Resist 
the devilish temptation to build an empire.

Chris





> On Aug 14, 2019, at 8:39 AM, Mark Carmel via OSList 
>  wrote:
> 
> Fascinating conversation. This is exactly why we need a certification-like 
> program and an organizational structure for the future if we want to train 
> people in the finer points of sustaining open space interventions over time 
> as Chris has done. There is a lot more to it than just throwing out an 
> invitation and opening up the market place. It is interesting to me that from 
> the most seasoned open space masters the idea was instantly shot down, 
> saying...we discussed that already... Now that is not what an open space 
> facilitator normally does right? Shoot down other people's ideas. The world 
> has evolved into one that respects credentials. Interestingly the ones who 
> spoke the strongest against certification have already given themselves nice 
> fancy titles. Which is wonderful.  Because credentials really do matter. 
> Right now open space facilitators must give themself their own title and 
> otherwise have no backing whatsoever to lend credibility to their self given 
> titles. When you talk about overcoming the resistance of executives and with 
> the retaliation nation nature of things now (look at Hong Kong) it makes 
> sense to put some structure to the educational credentialing of OSTsters from 
> apprentice  to Master to mentor.  In terms of VISION and MISSION and VALUES 
> and STRATEGY, why is it that we facilitators want to apply that same 
> organizational structure for ALL other organizations but resist doing the 
> same for OUR work, to create OUR organization... What IS our vision...to hope 
> the world magically organizes around OST... or to make it happen through a 
> viable 1,000 year vision.  In his great book, Leadership Is,  Harrison is 
> spot on to define OST as the ONE way for leaders to be a caretaker of the 
> Spirit.  We must not be naive to believe that leaders will not crush the 
> Spirit once it emerges in Open Space. This requires highly advanced training 
> to be able to navigate the process over decades of implementation.  ALL great 
> decisions require great leadership. If OST ever gets an organization, I hope 
> this idea will be considered by its leaders or of course someone else will do 
> it or it will not be done. In some ways, or all ways, Harrison has created a 
> new religion of Spirit and I hope that an organizational structure WILL be 
> created kinda like that other dude who started out with 12 disciples. 
> Peace,
> Mark Carmel
> 
> On Tue, Aug 13, 2019, 11:03 PM  > wrote:
> Send OSList mailing list submissions to
> oslist@lists.openspacetech.org 
> 
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> 
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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> 
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> 
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of OSList digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>1. Re: OST for Mission/Vision and Strategic Planning? (Chris Kloth)
>2. Re: OST for Mission/Vision and Strategic Planning? (Harrison Owen)
>3. Re: OST for Mission/Vision and Strategic Planning? (Peggy Holman)
>4. Re: OST for Mission/Vision

[OSList] Why CERTIFICATION makes sense considering this conversation on Mission, Vision Strategy Plans, etc.

[Mark Carmel via OSList]

Fascinating conversation. This is exactly why we need a certification-like
program and an organizational structure for the future if we want to train
people in the finer points of sustaining open space interventions over time
as Chris has done. There is a lot more to it than just throwing out an
invitation and opening up the market place. It is interesting to me that
from the most seasoned open space masters the idea was instantly shot down,
saying...we discussed that already... Now that is not what an open space
facilitator normally does right? Shoot down other people's ideas. The world
has evolved into one that respects credentials. Interestingly the ones who
spoke the strongest against certification have already given themselves
nice fancy titles. Which is wonderful.  Because credentials really do
matter. Right now open space facilitators must give themself their own
title and otherwise have no backing whatsoever to lend credibility to their
self given titles. When you talk about overcoming the resistance of
executives and with the retaliation nation nature of things now (look at
Hong Kong) it makes sense to put some structure to the educational
credentialing of OSTsters from apprentice  to Master to mentor.  In terms
of VISION and MISSION and VALUES and STRATEGY, why is it that we
facilitators want to apply that same organizational structure for ALL other
organizations but resist doing the same for OUR work, to create OUR
organization... What IS our vision...to hope the world magically organizes
around OST... or to make it happen through a viable 1,000 year vision.  In
his great book, Leadership Is,  Harrison is spot on to define OST as the
ONE way for leaders to be a caretaker of the Spirit.  We must not be naive
to believe that leaders will not crush the Spirit once it emerges in Open
Space. This requires highly advanced training to be able to navigate the
process over decades of implementation.  ALL great decisions require great
leadership. If OST ever gets an organization, I hope this idea will be
considered by its leaders or of course someone else will do it or it will
not be done. In some ways, or all ways, Harrison has created a new religion
of Spirit and I hope that an organizational structure WILL be created kinda
like that other dude who started out with 12 disciples.
Peace,
Mark Carmel

On Tue, Aug 13, 2019, 11:03 PM 
wrote:

> Send OSList mailing list submissions to
> oslist@lists.openspacetech.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>
> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> oslist-requ...@lists.openspacetech.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> oslist-ow...@lists.openspacetech.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of OSList digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>1. Re: OST for Mission/Vision and Strategic Planning? (Chris Kloth)
>2. Re: OST for Mission/Vision and Strategic Planning? (Harrison Owen)
>3. Re: OST for Mission/Vision and Strategic Planning? (Peggy Holman)
>4. Re: OST for Mission/Vision and Strategic Planning? (Jake Yeager)
>5. Open Space Hangout! Tues Aug 13, 12 PM EDT! (Tony Budak)
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2019 17:25:41 -0400
> From: Chris Kloth 
> To: jacob.yea...@gmail.com
> Cc: World wide Open Space Technology email list
> 
> Subject: Re: [OSList] OST for Mission/Vision and Strategic Planning?
> Message-ID:
> <20190812172541.20436ug8j3rp3...@tcsso-mail2.inetuhosted.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed"
>
> Jake, I hope to get back to you by this weekend. I am in the middle of
> a project with Prosecutor Impact (see Adam Foss' Ted Talk) that is
> pretty consuming. I know I have the file somewhere.
>
> That said, Michael's comment about what's on the wall triggered a
> powerful memory. When I got to my site the night before we were to
> start a very resistant top executive made it clear to me that he
> thought this approach a ridiculous waste of time. He also made it
> clear that he was sure labor issues over wages and other workplace
> issues would probably come up and that there was no way these could be
> addressed in such a setting.
>
> I thanked him for sharing his concerns and observed that labor issues
> would probably come up if it mattered to those in the room and
> requested that he trust me that it would be okay. I also asked him to
> listen to the workers talk and resist taking charge of the subject.
>
> No surprise that the topic came up at both sites in the first round
> and was attended by almost everyone at my site. He scowled at me big
> time. I will admit I was nervous.
>
> The 90 minute session went roughly like this: 30 of frustration, 30
> minutes of "We are all in this together 

Re: [OSList] Determining Duration of Open Space Event?

[Harrison Owen via OSList]

Duration: One day for simple stuff. Two Days for complex situation with the 
possibility of decision making/action group formation. If the people involved 
say that is too much time, that it is pretty clear that:  A) The issue isn’t 
that important. B) Nobody really cares. This actually a really good test for 
the first essential pre-condition for a productive Open Space – A really 
critical issue that has folks’ Attention. In short, they care.

 

ho 

 

From: OSList [mailto:oslist-boun...@lists.openspacetech.org] On Behalf Of Jake 
Yeager via OSList
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2019 8:07 AM
To: World wide Open Space Technology email list; Michael M Pannwitz
Cc: Jake Yeager
Subject: [OSList] Determining Duration of Open Space Event?

 

Hey Michael, 

 

Back in mid-July you provided a really helpful description of your contracting 
process for Open Space (reproduced below). I am using this to make my 
contracting process more robust, so thank you!

 

One question I have for you: in your contracting process when is there a 
determination of the duration of the Open Space? And how does that come about?

 

If others have thoughts on this subject, please join in!

 

Thanks!

 

All the best,

Jake

 



Dear Mark,

had a good laughing attack, reading your message.

The approach I have developed to improve on the role and task of the 
"leader" goes like this:

1. Contact:
I get a call from someone, not necessarily the "leader", sometimes a 
person from the OD department of the organization requesting an OST 
event. This professional person, as anyone else, can really have a 
number of assumptions about the organization she or he works for. After 
listening for a very short while (since I dont want to get confused) I 
suggest my standard procedure, a contact meeting with those that decide 
on this event.

2. Contact meeting face-to-face, never online or similar stuff:
Usually three or four or five people (I suggested to the first caller 
that it should be a bit of a diverse small group) gather for this 
contact meeting which lasts exactly 1 hour and maybe 15 minutes. For 
this meeting I dont charge anything regardless of the outcome. The 
potential client simply pays the costs (if I have to fly to Paris and 
spend a night there which happened in the early stage of the 300 leaders 
with Muslims, Jews and Christians engaged in World Peace in Sevilla (HO 
facilitated, I helped).)
In this meeting I suggest the present folks have an exchange on what the 
gathering is planned for (usually there is a pretty divergent response 
but the central issue becomes clearer).
After that I tell them about the 5 or 6 prerequites for an OST event and 
have them exchange on those.
At the end I also ask them how aware they are about the role of leaders 
after an OST event in face of the fact that participants start to lead 
themselves. Oh, yes, they exclaim, thats what we would love. Hmmm. I 
also add that nobody from the organization should make any promises in 
regard to the potential actions that people will engage in after the 
event. Them then also leading will know what kind of support they need 
and how to get it.
Before leaveing I tell them to sleep over all this and give me a ring.
If they call me and if I have a hunch that it will all work out, the 
third step is the :

3. Planning Meeting (preparatory meeting):
A group of 8 to 35 people (thats the range I have experienced in my 
career of working with OST) that the "leaders" selected, mirroring 
approximately the expected participants, meet for exactly 3.5 hours to
- exchange their expectations re the outcome (Thinking of the first 
working day after the event, what has changed?)
- develope the overall theme (in four steps: everyone for himself 
followed by random small groups to come to one theme, followed by a 
quick round of weighing the various themes, a round of three or four 
that want to come to a final suggestion (in fishbowl with the rest of 
the group watching, one empty chair for folks watching to come in and 
make a suggestion and immeditately leaving the chair again) and fourth 
an exchange of all to see whether the theme is it
- a brainstorming on who all needs to be invited to the event to 
actually work successfully on action that would carry the expectations 
forward under the chosen overall theme... usually a long list pops up 
which is reduced by a quick check on whether concrete people are behind 
the suggestions. For instance if someone says "The press" it will not 
count unless someone comes up with a particular organ or best a 
particular person...). The list is then checked on once more by 
identifying who is essential. If it turns out that someone mentioned as 
"essential" will definitely not come (for whatever reason) I suggest 
that then expectations have to be reduced or the overall Theme changed. 
That can lead to more clarifications and strenghens the common ground.
- produce a list of stuff that needs to be wo

[OSList] Determining Duration of Open Space Event?

[Jake Yeager via OSList]

Hey Michael,

Back in mid-July you provided a really helpful description of your
contracting process for Open Space (reproduced below). I am using this to
make my contracting process more robust, so thank you!

One question I have for you: in your contracting process when is there a
determination of the duration of the Open Space? And how does that come
about?

If others have thoughts on this subject, please join in!

Thanks!

All the best,
Jake


Dear Mark,

had a good laughing attack, reading your message.

The approach I have developed to improve on the role and task of the
"leader" goes like this:

1. Contact:
I get a call from someone, not necessarily the "leader", sometimes a
person from the OD department of the organization requesting an OST
event. This professional person, as anyone else, can really have a
number of assumptions about the organization she or he works for. After
listening for a very short while (since I dont want to get confused) I
suggest my standard procedure, a contact meeting with those that decide
on this event.

2. Contact meeting face-to-face, never online or similar stuff:
Usually three or four or five people (I suggested to the first caller
that it should be a bit of a diverse small group) gather for this
contact meeting which lasts exactly 1 hour and maybe 15 minutes. For
this meeting I dont charge anything regardless of the outcome. The
potential client simply pays the costs (if I have to fly to Paris and
spend a night there which happened in the early stage of the 300 leaders
with Muslims, Jews and Christians engaged in World Peace in Sevilla (HO
facilitated, I helped).)
In this meeting I suggest the present folks have an exchange on what the
gathering is planned for (usually there is a pretty divergent response
but the central issue becomes clearer).
After that I tell them about the 5 or 6 prerequites for an OST event and
have them exchange on those.
At the end I also ask them how aware they are about the role of leaders
after an OST event in face of the fact that participants start to lead
themselves. Oh, yes, they exclaim, thats what we would love. Hmmm. I
also add that nobody from the organization should make any promises in
regard to the potential actions that people will engage in after the
event. Them then also leading will know what kind of support they need
and how to get it.
Before leaveing I tell them to sleep over all this and give me a ring.
If they call me and if I have a hunch that it will all work out, the
third step is the :

3. Planning Meeting (preparatory meeting):
A group of 8 to 35 people (thats the range I have experienced in my
career of working with OST) that the "leaders" selected, mirroring
approximately the expected participants, meet for exactly 3.5 hours to
- exchange their expectations re the outcome (Thinking of the first
working day after the event, what has changed?)
- develope the overall theme (in four steps: everyone for himself
followed by random small groups to come to one theme, followed by a
quick round of weighing the various themes, a round of three or four
that want to come to a final suggestion (in fishbowl with the rest of
the group watching, one empty chair for folks watching to come in and
make a suggestion and immeditately leaving the chair again) and fourth
an exchange of all to see whether the theme is it
- a brainstorming on who all needs to be invited to the event to
actually work successfully on action that would carry the expectations
forward under the chosen overall theme... usually a long list pops up
which is reduced by a quick check on whether concrete people are behind
the suggestions. For instance if someone says "The press" it will not
count unless someone comes up with a particular organ or best a
particular person...). The list is then checked on once more by
identifying who is essential. If it turns out that someone mentioned as
"essential" will definitely not come (for whatever reason) I suggest
that then expectations have to be reduced or the overall Theme changed.
That can lead to more clarifications and strenghens the common ground.
- produce a list of stuff that needs to be worked on and who will be in
charge of that for each item, such as producting an invitation,
designing different invitation procedures for different target groups
(some will need an letter, others a letter and a phone call, some you
have to go and see, etc.)

Shortly before the end of the Planning Meeting I ask folks to sit in a
closing circle and briefly state what they experienced in the last 3.5
hours. Amazing stuff will surface such as: I came doubting this would
make any sense, now I am on fire and have taken charge of finding a
venue... I have been working as an executive for 20 years and never had
a more productive and fun gathering... we have developed into a real
group even though several of you I never met before...
(in other words this group together with the "leader" is now leading and
spreadin