Re: Generated project files
I've had a look at what's being added to the project file, and its a list of config strings from a global setting file. It contains various urls for the target build. #@ include file=globals.ttinclude # I'm assuming those string are then referenced in the project (I'm told this project needs the include file to target particular publishing urls). I'll check out silky' suggestion to see if that helps. cheers, Stephen On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 1:49 PM, David Kean david.k...@microsoft.comwrote: Apart from unloading the project, I don’t believe you can do this. Why does the T4 build the project file? To add source files? If so, can you make it take a filter, such as Compiler Include=*.cs /? *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Stephen Price *Sent:* Wednesday, June 23, 2010 10:44 PM *To:* ozDotNet *Subject:* Generated project files Hi all, One of our project files is being generated from a tt file, and each time I do a build the project file is replaced. This triggers the IDE to reload the project file while its doing a build. Anyone know a way to have it automatically ignore or load the project file and not ask me? (just for this one project file). Please note this was not my idea, nor do I like it. It's caught me out twice now, wondering why files I've added to the project suddenly are not in the project when I build. Not to mention the reloading (see nag) of the project file during a build. Kind of hoping there's a property setting somewhere or maybe a build order/dependency thing. cheers, Stephen
Re: Generated project files
The other alternative is to put the relevant project in a different solution, and don't open it, but reference it. I'm not sure if your scheme supports this sort of change. My feelings would be like yours; rebuilding files you're working with all the time is bad (I had this problem in dashy, which I solved by generating the 'correct' file post-build, but this doesn't work for you (as I understand you situation) because I wasn't generating project files themselves, just configs). On 6/24/10, Stephen Price step...@littlevoices.com wrote: I've had a look at what's being added to the project file, and its a list of config strings from a global setting file. It contains various urls for the target build. #@ include file=globals.ttinclude # I'm assuming those string are then referenced in the project (I'm told this project needs the include file to target particular publishing urls). I'll check out silky' suggestion to see if that helps. cheers, Stephen On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 1:49 PM, David Kean david.k...@microsoft.comwrote: Apart from unloading the project, I don’t believe you can do this. Why does the T4 build the project file? To add source files? If so, can you make it take a filter, such as Compiler Include=*.cs /? *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Stephen Price *Sent:* Wednesday, June 23, 2010 10:44 PM *To:* ozDotNet *Subject:* Generated project files Hi all, One of our project files is being generated from a tt file, and each time I do a build the project file is replaced. This triggers the IDE to reload the project file while its doing a build. Anyone know a way to have it automatically ignore or load the project file and not ask me? (just for this one project file). Please note this was not my idea, nor do I like it. It's caught me out twice now, wondering why files I've added to the project suddenly are not in the project when I build. Not to mention the reloading (see nag) of the project file during a build. Kind of hoping there's a property setting somewhere or maybe a build order/dependency thing. cheers, Stephen -- silky http://www.programmingbranch.com/
Re: Generated project files
Not sure if it works off the top of my head but you could put the T4 generated stuff in a separate project file and the import it into your static project file: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/92x05xfs.aspx VS should only be watching the file it loaded and not the files it references so a regen shouldn't trigger a project reload. It's worth a shot. On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 2:12 PM, silky michaelsli...@gmail.com wrote: The other alternative is to put the relevant project in a different solution, and don't open it, but reference it. I'm not sure if your scheme supports this sort of change. My feelings would be like yours; rebuilding files you're working with all the time is bad (I had this problem in dashy, which I solved by generating the 'correct' file post-build, but this doesn't work for you (as I understand you situation) because I wasn't generating project files themselves, just configs). On 6/24/10, Stephen Price step...@littlevoices.com wrote: I've had a look at what's being added to the project file, and its a list of config strings from a global setting file. It contains various urls for the target build. #@ include file=globals.ttinclude # I'm assuming those string are then referenced in the project (I'm told this project needs the include file to target particular publishing urls). I'll check out silky' suggestion to see if that helps. cheers, Stephen On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 1:49 PM, David Kean david.k...@microsoft.com wrote: Apart from unloading the project, I don’t believe you can do this. Why does the T4 build the project file? To add source files? If so, can you make it take a filter, such as Compiler Include=*.cs /? *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Stephen Price *Sent:* Wednesday, June 23, 2010 10:44 PM *To:* ozDotNet *Subject:* Generated project files Hi all, One of our project files is being generated from a tt file, and each time I do a build the project file is replaced. This triggers the IDE to reload the project file while its doing a build. Anyone know a way to have it automatically ignore or load the project file and not ask me? (just for this one project file). Please note this was not my idea, nor do I like it. It's caught me out twice now, wondering why files I've added to the project suddenly are not in the project when I build. Not to mention the reloading (see nag) of the project file during a build. Kind of hoping there's a property setting somewhere or maybe a build order/dependency thing. cheers, Stephen -- silky http://www.programmingbranch.com/ -- Michael M. Minutillo Indiscriminate Information Sponge Blog: http://wolfbyte-net.blogspot.com
Re: Generated project files
Having a look at that option now. One concern would be that the import file would always be one build out of date (requiring two builds to get the correct version into the build) on the build server. I think that situation exists now in the IDE anyway (clicking ignore is the only valid option as its currently building so can't unload the project if you click the reload option). I think as long as the project being built has a dependency on the project that copies over the new version of the include file (in the after build events) then it should work just how I want. thanks, will let you know :) cheers, Stephen On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 2:15 PM, Michael Minutillo michael.minuti...@gmail.com wrote: Not sure if it works off the top of my head but you could put the T4 generated stuff in a separate project file and the import it into your static project file: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/92x05xfs.aspx VS should only be watching the file it loaded and not the files it references so a regen shouldn't trigger a project reload. It's worth a shot. On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 2:12 PM, silky michaelsli...@gmail.com wrote: The other alternative is to put the relevant project in a different solution, and don't open it, but reference it. I'm not sure if your scheme supports this sort of change. My feelings would be like yours; rebuilding files you're working with all the time is bad (I had this problem in dashy, which I solved by generating the 'correct' file post-build, but this doesn't work for you (as I understand you situation) because I wasn't generating project files themselves, just configs). On 6/24/10, Stephen Price step...@littlevoices.com wrote: I've had a look at what's being added to the project file, and its a list of config strings from a global setting file. It contains various urls for the target build. #@ include file=globals.ttinclude # I'm assuming those string are then referenced in the project (I'm told this project needs the include file to target particular publishing urls). I'll check out silky' suggestion to see if that helps. cheers, Stephen On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 1:49 PM, David Kean david.k...@microsoft.com wrote: Apart from unloading the project, I don’t believe you can do this. Why does the T4 build the project file? To add source files? If so, can you make it take a filter, such as Compiler Include=*.cs /? *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Stephen Price *Sent:* Wednesday, June 23, 2010 10:44 PM *To:* ozDotNet *Subject:* Generated project files Hi all, One of our project files is being generated from a tt file, and each time I do a build the project file is replaced. This triggers the IDE to reload the project file while its doing a build. Anyone know a way to have it automatically ignore or load the project file and not ask me? (just for this one project file). Please note this was not my idea, nor do I like it. It's caught me out twice now, wondering why files I've added to the project suddenly are not in the project when I build. Not to mention the reloading (see nag) of the project file during a build. Kind of hoping there's a property setting somewhere or maybe a build order/dependency thing. cheers, Stephen -- silky http://www.programmingbranch.com/ -- Michael M. Minutillo Indiscriminate Information Sponge Blog: http://wolfbyte-net.blogspot.com
Re: Get main form instance from usercontrol
I would like to be able to nominate a button in a user control as my current default button. There is no property in a user control to do this (I suppose this is because a form can host multiple user controls). You can only set this from a form. It would be nice that when a user control has focus to be able to find the form that is hosting my user control and set the default (user presses enter) to a button on my user control. One would need to be change this as one changes from user control to another or if one is just hosting a single user control to be able to mange this. I will check out the link below to see it this helps. Regards Peter On 24/06/2010 8:40 AM, David Kean wrote: What are you trying to do? A user control should try and be naive to where it's being hosted -- I typically have these communicate to the form hosting it by using events and properties. *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Joseph Clark *Sent:* Wednesday, June 23, 2010 5:31 PM *To:* ozDotNet *Subject:* Re: Get main form instance from usercontrol http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/system.windows.forms.control.findform.aspx should work? On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 10:25 AM, Anthony asale...@tpg.com.au mailto:asale...@tpg.com.au wrote: What method do i need to use to the get the main instance of a form from a usercontrol? The main form is of type FormMain but how do i access the instance from a usercontrol? If i use me.parent..this would only give the instance of the container object. Using vb.net http://vb.net winforms Is your website being IntelliXperienced? http://www.intellixperience.com/signup.aspx regards Anthony (*12QWERNB*) Is your website being IntelliXperienced?
KPI's for software developers
Hi all Does anyone have any good useful key performance indicators (KPI) that measure a software developers performance? Kind regards Richard Moore Analyst Programmer Ph: +61 7 3340 2500 Fx: +61 7 3340 2550 23 Hi-Tech Court, Eight Mile Plains, Qld 4113 Locked Bag 38, Acacia Ridge, Qld 4110 image001.gif
RE: KPI's for software developers
Definitely track it by the amount of code that write, the bugs they fix and soda they drink. ;) From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Richard Moore Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 5:40 PM To: ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com Subject: KPI's for software developers Hi all Does anyone have any good useful key performance indicators (KPI) that measure a software developers performance? Kind regards Richard Moore Analyst Programmer [WSR-Signature.png] Ph: +61 7 3340 2500 Fx: +61 7 3340 2550 23 Hi-Tech Court, Eight Mile Plains, Qld 4113 Locked Bag 38, Acacia Ridge, Qld 4110 inline: image001.gif
Re: KPI's for software developers
WTF's/Minute is a good measure. Sorry it's Friday. Ok ok, some serious things that could be measured would be lines of code/bugs covered in code inspections. MS exams passed. Unit tests written, percentage code covered. If there are bugs/defects, then the number of those fixed. If working agile then, number of tasks completed. It probably has to be something they are already doing now, that can be measured. No point in measuring their performance on something they are not doing (even if its something you'd like them to do). I've never liked KPI's mainly because I feel like I'm being judged and assessed. (which you are). Often a good idea to ask the person/people being measured what they think their KPI's should be. You then get a view of what they think they do in their jobs. cheers, Stephen On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 8:40 AM, Richard Moore richard.mo...@worldsmartretail.com.au wrote: Hi all Does anyone have any good useful key performance indicators (KPI) that measure a software developers performance? Kind regards *Richard Moore Analyst Programmer* [image: WSR-Signature.png] Ph: +61 7 3340 2500 Fx: +61 7 3340 2550 23 Hi-Tech Court, Eight Mile Plains, Qld 4113 Locked Bag 38, Acacia Ridge, Qld 4110 image001.gif
Re: KPI's for software developers
It is very difficult to quantify programmer performance because no 2 jobs and no 2 clients are the same. More code doesn't always mean better quality code. Counting numbers of bugs is open to manipulation and a high number of bugs is not always the developers fault. As a general guide if we look at things like adherence to company standards and practices, client satisfaction, and the number of avoidable errors, though there's nothing formal in place. On 25 June 2010 10:40, Richard Moore richard.mo...@worldsmartretail.com.auwrote: Hi all Does anyone have any good useful key performance indicators (KPI) that measure a software developers performance? Kind regards *Richard Moore Analyst Programmer* [image: WSR-Signature.png] Ph: +61 7 3340 2500 Fx: +61 7 3340 2550 23 Hi-Tech Court, Eight Mile Plains, Qld 4113 Locked Bag 38, Acacia Ridge, Qld 4110 image001.gif
Re: KPI's for software developers
So what about the people who delete code? I know someone who measures himself on lines deleted. :) No name, but I think its a great idea! On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 8:44 AM, David Kean david.k...@microsoft.comwrote: Definitely track it by the amount of code that write, the bugs they fix and soda they drink. ;) *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Richard Moore *Sent:* Thursday, June 24, 2010 5:40 PM *To:* ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com *Subject:* KPI's for software developers Hi all Does anyone have any good useful key performance indicators (KPI) that measure a software developers performance? Kind regards *Richard Moore Analyst Programmer* [image: WSR-Signature.png] Ph: +61 7 3340 2500 Fx: +61 7 3340 2550 23 Hi-Tech Court, Eight Mile Plains, Qld 4113 Locked Bag 38, Acacia Ridge, Qld 4110 image001.gif
Re: KPI's for software developers
Ratio of Code to Coments complaining about the client.. That's always a good way to go ;) On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 10:55 AM, Richard Moore richard.mo...@worldsmartretail.com.au wrote: I assume that was a bit tongue in cheek, and I prefer coffee to soda!! They are all good points that have been raised but we don’t work in a closed system where those numbers across developers are equal. IMHO development is as just as much “art” as it is science so how do you objectively measure art? There are plenty of subjective measures but what about objective ones? *From:* Stephen Price [mailto:step...@littlevoices.com] *Sent:* Friday, 25 June 2010 10:51 AM *To:* ozDotNet *Subject:* Re: KPI's for software developers So what about the people who delete code? I know someone who measures himself on lines deleted. :) No name, but I think its a great idea! On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 8:44 AM, David Kean david.k...@microsoft.com wrote: Definitely track it by the amount of code that write, the bugs they fix and soda they drink. ;) *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Richard Moore *Sent:* Thursday, June 24, 2010 5:40 PM *To:* ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com *Subject:* KPI's for software developers Hi all Does anyone have any good useful key performance indicators (KPI) that measure a software developers performance? Kind regards *Richard Moore Analyst Programmer* [image: WSR-Signature.png] Ph: +61 7 3340 2500 Fx: +61 7 3340 2550 23 Hi-Tech Court, Eight Mile Plains, Qld 4113 Locked Bag 38, Acacia Ridge, Qld 4110 -- Eddie de Bear Mob: 0417066315 Messenger: eddie_deb...@hotmail.com Skype: eddiedebear image001.gif
Re: KPI's for software developers
Until you later find out the client also bought the source code and you have to give it to them. I've had this happen with a couple of projects. Fortunately, I'm a polite commentor. :) David If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards... checkmate! -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 11:11, Eddie de Bear eddie.deb...@gmail.com wrote: Ratio of Code to Coments complaining about the client.. That's always a good way to go ;)
Re: KPI's for software developers
lol, one of the places I worked (years ago) that happened. I didn't write the code, but I was told to run it through an obfuscator before the code was handed over. The main reason was to strip out all the comments AND nasty variable names.. On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 11:18 AM, David Richards ausdot...@davidsuniverse.com wrote: Until you later find out the client also bought the source code and you have to give it to them. I've had this happen with a couple of projects. Fortunately, I'm a polite commentor. :) David If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards... checkmate! -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 11:11, Eddie de Bear eddie.deb...@gmail.comwrote: Ratio of Code to Coments complaining about the client.. That's always a good way to go ;) -- Eddie de Bear Mob: 0417066315 Messenger: eddie_deb...@hotmail.com Skype: eddiedebear
Re: KPI's for software developers
they show up work - good they dont show up for work - not good On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 11:28 AM, Eddie de Bear eddie.deb...@gmail.comwrote: lol, one of the places I worked (years ago) that happened. I didn't write the code, but I was told to run it through an obfuscator before the code was handed over. The main reason was to strip out all the comments AND nasty variable names.. On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 11:18 AM, David Richards ausdot...@davidsuniverse.com wrote: Until you later find out the client also bought the source code and you have to give it to them. I've had this happen with a couple of projects. Fortunately, I'm a polite commentor. :) David If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards... checkmate! -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 11:11, Eddie de Bear eddie.deb...@gmail.comwrote: Ratio of Code to Coments complaining about the client.. That's always a good way to go ;) -- Eddie de Bear Mob: 0417066315 Messenger: eddie_deb...@hotmail.com Skype: eddiedebear -- Heinrich Breedt “Do not wait to strike till the iron is hot; but make it hot by striking.” - William B. Sprague
Re: KPI's for software developers
Objective metrics are a PITA because you end up skewing the resulting effort to favor the metric. Here are some with their negative effects lines of code = prefer long code to reusable code. Copy and Paste is a cash-cow # builds broken / some period = don't check in very frequently which results in harder integrations and more rework avg difference between estimate and actuals = pad your estimates out and then make sure it takes that long passing unit tests written= lots of useless brittle tests bugs found during code review=code reviews somehow don't get done** ** Actually this metric can be OK if you are rewarding the finder and not punishing the author (although this could lead to a buddy system where one dev leaves in bugs for their mates to find). Just be aware that this works for a while and then the quality of the code goes up and the metric will probably dip back down. What is the intent of collecting the metrics? Is it for a standalone performance evaluation or a long-running improvement monitoring thing? Is there a concern to be addressed? Or is it just Friday? On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 9:28 AM, Eddie de Bear eddie.deb...@gmail.comwrote: lol, one of the places I worked (years ago) that happened. I didn't write the code, but I was told to run it through an obfuscator before the code was handed over. The main reason was to strip out all the comments AND nasty variable names.. On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 11:18 AM, David Richards ausdot...@davidsuniverse.com wrote: Until you later find out the client also bought the source code and you have to give it to them. I've had this happen with a couple of projects. Fortunately, I'm a polite commentor. :) David If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards... checkmate! -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 11:11, Eddie de Bear eddie.deb...@gmail.comwrote: Ratio of Code to Coments complaining about the client.. That's always a good way to go ;) -- Eddie de Bear Mob: 0417066315 Messenger: eddie_deb...@hotmail.com Skype: eddiedebear -- Michael M. Minutillo Indiscriminate Information Sponge Blog: http://wolfbyte-net.blogspot.com
RE: KPI's for software developers
I have some pretty awesome KPIs 1) Deliver on project A by Feb 2) Deliver on project B by March 3) Deliver on project C by May 4) Fix all bugs assigned in a timely manner From a business perspective, they don't care how many bugs/LoC I create, or how many youtube videos I watch. As long as the work gets done, I'm performing. I like this measurement system because it's simple, clear and easy to know when I'm performing, or when I'm not. Tiang From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Richard Moore Sent: Friday, 25 June 2010 8:40 AM To: ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com Subject: KPI's for software developers Hi all Does anyone have any good useful key performance indicators (KPI) that measure a software developers performance? Kind regards Richard Moore Analyst Programmer [cid:image001.gif@01CB144D.F6B9F350] Ph: +61 7 3340 2500 Fx: +61 7 3340 2550 23 Hi-Tech Court, Eight Mile Plains, Qld 4113 Locked Bag 38, Acacia Ridge, Qld 4110 inline: image001.gif
Re: KPI's for software developers
KPI = LoC * (bugs / sodas) On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 10:44 AM, David Kean david.k...@microsoft.comwrote: Definitely track it by the amount of code that write, the bugs they fix and soda they drink. ;) *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Richard Moore *Sent:* Thursday, June 24, 2010 5:40 PM *To:* ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com *Subject:* KPI's for software developers Hi all Does anyone have any good useful key performance indicators (KPI) that measure a software developers performance? Kind regards *Richard Moore Analyst Programmer* [image: WSR-Signature.png] Ph: +61 7 3340 2500 Fx: +61 7 3340 2550 23 Hi-Tech Court, Eight Mile Plains, Qld 4113 Locked Bag 38, Acacia Ridge, Qld 4110 image001.gif
Re: KPI's for software developers
On 6/25/10, Tiang Cheng tiang.ch...@staff.iinet.net.au wrote: I have some pretty awesome KPIs 1) Deliver on project A by Feb 2) Deliver on project B by March 3) Deliver on project C by May 4) Fix all bugs assigned in a timely manner From a business perspective, they don't care how many bugs/LoC I create, or how many youtube videos I watch. As long as the work gets done, I'm performing. I like this measurement system because it's simple, clear and easy to know when I'm performing, or when I'm not. Agreed (well, with the general goal of meeting quoted times). The hardest thing about this style is it must account for changes in the projects. But I do agree, it's by far the superior approach. Tiang -- silky http://www.programmingbranch.com/
Re: KPI's for software developers
Shouldn't that be LoC * (sodas / bugs)? Otherwise increases in bugs or decreases in sodas is good. Or is this a golf metric? On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 10:11 AM, Craig van Nieuwkerk crai...@gmail.comwrote: KPI = LoC * (bugs / sodas) On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 10:44 AM, David Kean david.k...@microsoft.comwrote: Definitely track it by the amount of code that write, the bugs they fix and soda they drink. ;) *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Richard Moore *Sent:* Thursday, June 24, 2010 5:40 PM *To:* ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com *Subject:* KPI's for software developers Hi all Does anyone have any good useful key performance indicators (KPI) that measure a software developers performance? Kind regards *Richard Moore Analyst Programmer* [image: WSR-Signature.png] Ph: +61 7 3340 2500 Fx: +61 7 3340 2550 23 Hi-Tech Court, Eight Mile Plains, Qld 4113 Locked Bag 38, Acacia Ridge, Qld 4110 -- Michael M. Minutillo Indiscriminate Information Sponge Blog: http://wolfbyte-net.blogspot.com image001.gif
Re: KPI's for software developers
I am never going to a hospital again On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 10:38 AM, Greg Harris g...@harrisconsultinggroup.com wrote: This is going to cause a few mad Friday tangents…. If you have ever worked on a sales performance recognition system that allows for any flexibility beyond the total of who sold how much in dollar terms when, you will have seen that there quickly starts to be manipulation of the input data to affect the recognition outcome (rewards). e.g. look at all the sales people who are running around just now to meet their end of financial year goals, where the sales will be quietly credited back into the system at the beginning of the next financial year! If sales people (who have a far lower average IQ) than programmers can manipulate the system to meet their personal goals, what are programmers going to do? But I would also say, if you cannot measure it, you cannot manage it! But take care with your stats, statistics show that far more people die in hospital than in the community as a whole, so if you are sick, you should avoid going to hospital! WRONG! (for the sales people in the room, the reason more people die in hospital is because it has a biased population, sick people, who have a higher probability of dying) Have fun on Friday Greg H -- Michael M. Minutillo Indiscriminate Information Sponge Blog: http://wolfbyte-net.blogspot.com
Re: KPI's for software developers
On 6/25/10, Greg Harris g...@harrisconsultinggroup.com wrote: This is going to cause a few mad Friday tangents…. If you have ever worked on a sales performance recognition system that allows for any flexibility beyond the total of who sold how much in dollar terms when, you will have seen that there quickly starts to be manipulation of the input data to affect the recognition outcome (rewards). e.g. look at all the sales people who are running around just now to meet their end of financial year goals, where the sales will be quietly credited back into the system at the beginning of the next financial year! If sales people (who have a far lower average IQ) than programmers can manipulate the system to meet their personal goals, what are programmers going to do? FWIW, not only is this a pretty offensive comment, it also doesn't logically follow that someone who is smarter will be more dishonest. But it is a fact that any system needs to consider how it can be 'gamed', and to what degree that is expected. That's why, IMHO, the most appropriate one is where the limits can be controlled by management trivially (i.e. time estimates) and the result is directly useful. More code isn't directly useful. Less code isn't directly useful. A project delivered on time *is* directly useful. But I would also say, if you cannot measure it, you cannot manage it! But take care with your stats, statistics show that far more people die in hospital than in the community as a whole, so if you are sick, you should avoid going to hospital! WRONG! (for the sales people in the room, the reason more people die in hospital is because it has a biased population, sick people, who have a higher probability of dying) Have fun on Friday Greg H -- silky http://www.programmingbranch.com/
Re: KPI's for software developers
I've also heard that the death rate goes down when doctors go on strike. *scary* On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 10:43 AM, Michael Minutillo michael.minuti...@gmail.com wrote: I am never going to a hospital again On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 10:38 AM, Greg Harris g...@harrisconsultinggroup.com wrote: This is going to cause a few mad Friday tangents…. If you have ever worked on a sales performance recognition system that allows for any flexibility beyond the total of who sold how much in dollar terms when, you will have seen that there quickly starts to be manipulation of the input data to affect the recognition outcome (rewards). e.g. look at all the sales people who are running around just now to meet their end of financial year goals, where the sales will be quietly credited back into the system at the beginning of the next financial year! If sales people (who have a far lower average IQ) than programmers can manipulate the system to meet their personal goals, what are programmers going to do? But I would also say, if you cannot measure it, you cannot manage it! But take care with your stats, statistics show that far more people die in hospital than in the community as a whole, so if you are sick, you should avoid going to hospital! WRONG! (for the sales people in the room, the reason more people die in hospital is because it has a biased population, sick people, who have a higher probability of dying) Have fun on Friday Greg H -- Michael M. Minutillo Indiscriminate Information Sponge Blog: http://wolfbyte-net.blogspot.com
RE: KPI's for software developers
Only if the concluded project meets all the requirements (Assuming the full requirements were actually captured in the first place) Simon (Can you guess what I spent last week doing?) A project delivered on time *is* directly useful. -- silky This email (including all attachments) is confidential, may contain personal or legally privileged information and is intended solely for the named addressee. Confidentiality or privilege is not waived or lost because this email has been sent to you by mistake. If you have received it in error, please let us know by reply email, delete it from your system and destroy any copies. This email is also subject to copyright. No part of it should be reproduced, adapted or communicated without the written consent of the copyright owner. Any personal information in this email must be handled in accordance with the Privacy Act 1988 (Cth). Emails may be interfered with, may contain computer viruses or other defects and may not be successfully replicated on other systems. Pillar Administration makes no representations and gives no warranties in relation to these matters and does not accept liability for any loss or damage which may result from this email. If you have any doubts about the authenticity of an email purportedly sent by Pillar Administration, please contact us immediately.
Re: KPI's for software developers
What about hiring self motivated people, that can manage themselves? You can trust and build a real relationship with with? On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 1:09 PM, Simon Haigh simon_ha...@pillar.com.auwrote: Only if the concluded project meets all the requirements (Assuming the full requirements were actually captured in the first place) Simon (Can you guess what I spent last week doing?) A project delivered on time *is* directly useful. -- silky This email (including all attachments) is confidential, may contain personal or legally privileged information and is intended solely for the named addressee. Confidentiality or privilege is not waived or lost because this email has been sent to you by mistake. If you have received it in error, please let us know by reply email, delete it from your system and destroy any copies. This email is also subject to copyright. No part of it should be reproduced, adapted or communicated without the written consent of the copyright owner. Any personal information in this email must be handled in accordance with the Privacy Act 1988 (Cth). Emails may be interfered with, may contain computer viruses or other defects and may not be successfully replicated on other systems. Pillar Administration makes no representations and gives no warranties in relation to these matters and does not accept liability for any loss or damage which may result from this email. If you have any doubts about the authenticity of an email purportedly sent by Pillar Administration, please contact us immediately.
Re: KPI's for software developers
On 6/25/10, Simon Haigh simon_ha...@pillar.com.au wrote: Only if the concluded project meets all the requirements (Assuming the full requirements were actually captured in the first place) Simon (Can you guess what I spent last week doing?) :) Agreed, this is the flaw with this system. But it's the easiest flaw to resolve, I think. It also needs to be resolved in any project anyway, for the happy outcome to be achieved, so the faster it's sorted the better. -- silky http://www.programmingbranch.com/
Re: KPI's for software developers
On 6/25/10, Michael Ridland rid...@gmail.com wrote: What about hiring self motivated people, that can manage themselves? You can trust and build a real relationship with with? Well sure, that's obvious. But it doesn't even matter. KPI's are about companies getting sufficiently large that the top level managers want a nice overview of progress. You don't need them in smaller companies, where the staff and projects are all well known and small. Consider the question instead What is the best way to get a summary of a given projects status and in a fashion that allows the estimates to be predicted to the most accurate degree? -- silky http://www.programmingbranch.com/
RE: KPI's for software developers
The management answer to this question is Ask the Project Manager. The correct answer may (or may not) be entirely different. Simon Consider the question instead What is the best way to get a summary of a given projects status and in a fashion that allows the estimates to be predicted to the most accurate degree? -- silky This email (including all attachments) is confidential, may contain personal or legally privileged information and is intended solely for the named addressee. Confidentiality or privilege is not waived or lost because this email has been sent to you by mistake. If you have received it in error, please let us know by reply email, delete it from your system and destroy any copies. This email is also subject to copyright. No part of it should be reproduced, adapted or communicated without the written consent of the copyright owner. Any personal information in this email must be handled in accordance with the Privacy Act 1988 (Cth). Emails may be interfered with, may contain computer viruses or other defects and may not be successfully replicated on other systems. Pillar Administration makes no representations and gives no warranties in relation to these matters and does not accept liability for any loss or damage which may result from this email. If you have any doubts about the authenticity of an email purportedly sent by Pillar Administration, please contact us immediately.
Re: KPI's for software developers
On 6/25/10, Simon Haigh simon_ha...@pillar.com.au wrote: The management answer to this question is Ask the Project Manager. The correct answer may (or may not) be entirely different. Yeah exactly, I agree with this also. As your saying, the best option is to put someone knowledgeable close to the people and have them produce a report. But still, as more people exist upwards and leftwards, the report needs to be summarised. -- silky http://www.programmingbranch.com/
