Re: New Web API project

2013-02-03 Thread Heinrich Breedt
http://clear-measure.com/i-have-a-web-forms-custom-application-should-i-upgrade-to-asp-net-mvc-now-or-wait/


On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 2:25 PM, Heinrich Breedt heinrichbre...@gmail.comwrote:

 this might help:
 http://www.west-wind.com/weblog/posts/2012/Aug/07/Where-does-ASPNET-Web-API-Fit



 On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 12:35 PM, Katherine Moss katherine.m...@gordon.edu
  wrote:

  Yes, WebAPI is wrapped inside of MVC4.  And there’s another thing that
 just makes me mad; when people want to rewrite their application for the
 heck of it just so that they can be deployed under the latest fad.  The
 folks from Yet Another Forum are now saying that their project could be
 moved and rewritten as ASP.net MVC too, and for what?  To look cool?
 Apparently, and what’s wrong with a project that is written in Web Forms
 and doing fine?  I’m sorry, but I don’t get it.  And once that changes, if
 it does, other folks who use YAF will be screwed including those at
 Sueetie, who make a great product all based on Web Forms.  Though web forms
 and MVC can work together, though it’s not as simple as one would think.
 If you want MVC, then use Web Forms MVP.  And who said WCF is pointless
 middleware?  Isn’t it a good way to create web services?  And if not for
 WCF, what’s next?  Back to ASMX from 2006?  Come on!  Anyway, guys, I’m
 sorry for the rant, but I had to get it out somewhere, right?  

 ** **

 *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
 ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Greg Keogh
 *Sent:* Thursday, January 31, 2013 7:50 PM
 *To:* ozDotNet
 *Subject:* Re: New Web API project

 ** **

 Thanks, glad to know I'm not alone, that link looks sensible and will
 save a lot of suffering -- Greg 




 --
 Heinrich Breedt

 “Do not wait to strike till the iron is hot; but make it hot by striking.”
 - William B. Sprague




-- 
Heinrich Breedt

“Do not wait to strike till the iron is hot; but make it hot by striking.”
- William B. Sprague


RE: New Web API project

2013-02-01 Thread Paul Glavich
I believe it is an artefact of wanting to enable SPA (Single Page
applications). That is, a web app, using mostly a single page, comprised of
a lot of javascript calls to a WebApi backend.

 

It will be rationalised soon enough I believe.

 

-  Glav

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com]
On Behalf Of Greg Keogh
Sent: Friday, 1 February 2013 9:39 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: New Web API project

 

I thought I'd generate a fresh Web API project from the template to see what
it looks like, and I eventually find it under ASP MVC 4. I do so and get 143
files in 20 folders. There are scripts, images, cshtml files, style sheets
and lord knows what. What is all this sh*t just to make a http service?

 

I expected to get a concise little project with some skeleton files but I
get this gigantic schmozzle. Are you telling me that a Web API project is
wrapped-up inside the circus of the ASP MVC framework?

 

Am I expected to delete all the irrelevent files and strip it back to a
simple service without a UI, or is there a simpler way of creating a Web API
project from scratch?

 

Greg

 

P.S. Silverlight still works best with WCF. You could make http requests
from Silverlight, but it's all typeless. I'm not sure if there is some trick
to make them work together more pleasantly.



RE: New Web API project

2013-01-31 Thread Katherine Moss
Thank you for the clarification, guys.  My thing, since I'm planning to become 
an open source developer, still, I think that even if I am developing for open 
source, if I am happy, then I'll keep one project in one technology if it is 
working for me, and then I'll offer a port of it in the other platform or 
something like that so that people can choose which project they feel more 
comfortable using.  Or I'll just choose whichever one works.  I feel that there 
is no reason to change a project that is working just for the heck of it, but 
that's me.  But, the good news is that it doesn't look like YAF will be moving 
since there is now a rival forum written in ASP.net MVC right now.  So it would 
be stupid for them to do that.  And considering they are commercial as well.  
And speaking of ASP.net MVC though, I have noticed that not many people use the 
standard ASPX view, do they?  I mean, what's so special about razor if razor is 
sort of backtracking to the ASP days?  I mean, C# within HTML tags?  Come on, 
people.  Go back to VBScript if you're going to do that.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Heinrich B
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2013 11:25 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: New Web API project

this might help: 
http://www.west-wind.com/weblog/posts/2012/Aug/07/Where-does-ASPNET-Web-API-Fit

On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 12:35 PM, Katherine Moss 
katherine.m...@gordon.edumailto:katherine.m...@gordon.edu wrote:
Yes, WebAPI is wrapped inside of MVC4.  And there's another thing that just 
makes me mad; when people want to rewrite their application for the heck of it 
just so that they can be deployed under the latest fad.  The folks from Yet 
Another Forum are now saying that their project could be moved and rewritten as 
ASP.net MVC too, and for what?  To look cool?  Apparently, and what's wrong 
with a project that is written in Web Forms and doing fine?  I'm sorry, but I 
don't get it.  And once that changes, if it does, other folks who use YAF will 
be screwed including those at Sueetie, who make a great product all based on 
Web Forms.  Though web forms and MVC can work together, though it's not as 
simple as one would think.  If you want MVC, then use Web Forms MVP.  And who 
said WCF is pointless middleware?  Isn't it a good way to create web services?  
And if not for WCF, what's next?  Back to ASMX from 2006?  Come on!  Anyway, 
guys, I'm sorry for the rant, but I had to get it out somewhere, right?

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Greg Keogh
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2013 7:50 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: New Web API project

Thanks, glad to know I'm not alone, that link looks sensible and will save a 
lot of suffering -- Greg



--
Heinrich Breedt

Do not wait to strike till the iron is hot; but make it hot by striking. - 
William B. Sprague


Re: New Web API project

2013-01-31 Thread Heinrich Breedt
I think you have the wrong idea about MVC.
Razor Views specifically: It all gets executed server side. You certainly
dont have to use it. These days I do a lot of knockout pages with hardly
any razor in them, sometimes not at all.
It can look a lot like old asp i guess, and with all things it can lead to
spaghetti code. But I much prefer to be close to the metal with my html.
Much better than serverside controls and writing html inside page response.
And if i never have to deal with the page lifecycle it will be too soon.


On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 3:19 PM, Katherine Moss katherine.m...@gordon.eduwrote:

  Thank you for the clarification, guys.  My thing, since I’m planning to
 become an open source developer, still, I think that even if I am
 developing for open source, if I am happy, then I’ll keep one project in
 one technology if it is working for me, and then I’ll offer a port of it in
 the other platform or something like that so that people can choose which
 project they feel more comfortable using.  Or I’ll just choose whichever
 one works.  I feel that there is no reason to change a project that is
 working just for the heck of it, but that’s me.  But, the good news is that
 it doesn’t look like YAF will be moving since there is now a rival forum
 written in ASP.net MVC right now.  So it would be stupid for them to do
 that.  And considering they are commercial as well.  And speaking of
 ASP.net MVC though, I have noticed that not many people use the standard
 ASPX view, do they?  I mean, what’s so special about razor if razor is sort
 of backtracking to the ASP days?  I mean, C# within HTML tags?  Come on,
 people.  Go back to VBScript if you’re going to do that.  

 ** **

 *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
 ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Heinrich B
 *Sent:* Thursday, January 31, 2013 11:25 PM

 *To:* ozDotNet
 *Subject:* Re: New Web API project

 ** **

 this might help:
 http://www.west-wind.com/weblog/posts/2012/Aug/07/Where-does-ASPNET-Web-API-Fit
  

 ** **

 On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 12:35 PM, Katherine Moss katherine.m...@gordon.edu
 wrote:

 Yes, WebAPI is wrapped inside of MVC4.  And there’s another thing that
 just makes me mad; when people want to rewrite their application for the
 heck of it just so that they can be deployed under the latest fad.  The
 folks from Yet Another Forum are now saying that their project could be
 moved and rewritten as ASP.net MVC too, and for what?  To look cool?
 Apparently, and what’s wrong with a project that is written in Web Forms
 and doing fine?  I’m sorry, but I don’t get it.  And once that changes, if
 it does, other folks who use YAF will be screwed including those at
 Sueetie, who make a great product all based on Web Forms.  Though web forms
 and MVC can work together, though it’s not as simple as one would think.
 If you want MVC, then use Web Forms MVP.  And who said WCF is pointless
 middleware?  Isn’t it a good way to create web services?  And if not for
 WCF, what’s next?  Back to ASMX from 2006?  Come on!  Anyway, guys, I’m
 sorry for the rant, but I had to get it out somewhere, right?  

  

 *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
 ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Greg Keogh
 *Sent:* Thursday, January 31, 2013 7:50 PM
 *To:* ozDotNet
 *Subject:* Re: New Web API project

  

 Thanks, glad to know I'm not alone, that link looks sensible and will save
 a lot of suffering -- Greg 



 

 ** **

 --
 Heinrich Breedt

 “Do not wait to strike till the iron is hot; but make it hot by striking.”
 - William B. Sprague 




-- 
Heinrich Breedt

“Do not wait to strike till the iron is hot; but make it hot by striking.”
- William B. Sprague


Re: New Web API project

2013-01-31 Thread Nathan Schultz
There are advantages of using MVC for open-source software:
 - You don't have to deal with the web-forms 'generated' naming
conventions of rendered HTML which can make it hard to integrate with
JavaScript frameworks
 - You have greater control over the HTML, which means it's easier to
implement open-source HTML frameworks such as HTML5 Boiler Plate, or
Foundation 3.
 - You're not reliant on ASP's rendering of server controls, so it's
easier to write standards compliant HTML
 - There is better separation of concerns between the view code and
logic, which leads to better transparency - always helpful when
working in disparate teams like in the Open Source community.
 - Testability: Unlike Web-Forms that are difficult to automatically
test; MVC makes testing frameworks first-class citizens, and the boon
from this cannot be understated:
. You can regression test at the click of a button - almost
essential when others are poking around with your code.
. It can also be used as a 'contract' when working with other
developers - you know what is implemented and working, and what is
not.
. I find Testable code is also better designed code: you think
about separation of concerns and dependencies much more
. There's nothing like getting to 'code freeze' and finding you
have to do a re-design due to uncovering a fundamental flaw. With a
test suite to back you up, re-factoring your design is far less scary.



On 1 February 2013 13:47, Heinrich Breedt heinrichbre...@gmail.com wrote:
 I think you have the wrong idea about MVC.
 Razor Views specifically: It all gets executed server side. You certainly
 dont have to use it. These days I do a lot of knockout pages with hardly any
 razor in them, sometimes not at all.
 It can look a lot like old asp i guess, and with all things it can lead to
 spaghetti code. But I much prefer to be close to the metal with my html.
 Much better than serverside controls and writing html inside page response.
 And if i never have to deal with the page lifecycle it will be too soon.


 On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 3:19 PM, Katherine Moss katherine.m...@gordon.edu
 wrote:

 Thank you for the clarification, guys.  My thing, since I’m planning to
 become an open source developer, still, I think that even if I am developing
 for open source, if I am happy, then I’ll keep one project in one technology
 if it is working for me, and then I’ll offer a port of it in the other
 platform or something like that so that people can choose which project they
 feel more comfortable using.  Or I’ll just choose whichever one works.  I
 feel that there is no reason to change a project that is working just for
 the heck of it, but that’s me.  But, the good news is that it doesn’t look
 like YAF will be moving since there is now a rival forum written in ASP.net
 MVC right now.  So it would be stupid for them to do that.  And considering
 they are commercial as well.  And speaking of ASP.net MVC though, I have
 noticed that not many people use the standard ASPX view, do they?  I mean,
 what’s so special about razor if razor is sort of backtracking to the ASP
 days?  I mean, C# within HTML tags?  Come on, people.  Go back to VBScript
 if you’re going to do that.



 From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com]
 On Behalf Of Heinrich B
 Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2013 11:25 PM


 To: ozDotNet
 Subject: Re: New Web API project



 this might help:
 http://www.west-wind.com/weblog/posts/2012/Aug/07/Where-does-ASPNET-Web-API-Fit



 On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 12:35 PM, Katherine Moss
 katherine.m...@gordon.edu wrote:

 Yes, WebAPI is wrapped inside of MVC4.  And there’s another thing that
 just makes me mad; when people want to rewrite their application for the
 heck of it just so that they can be deployed under the latest fad.  The
 folks from Yet Another Forum are now saying that their project could be
 moved and rewritten as ASP.net MVC too, and for what?  To look cool?
 Apparently, and what’s wrong with a project that is written in Web Forms and
 doing fine?  I’m sorry, but I don’t get it.  And once that changes, if it
 does, other folks who use YAF will be screwed including those at Sueetie,
 who make a great product all based on Web Forms.  Though web forms and MVC
 can work together, though it’s not as simple as one would think.  If you
 want MVC, then use Web Forms MVP.  And who said WCF is pointless middleware?
 Isn’t it a good way to create web services?  And if not for WCF, what’s
 next?  Back to ASMX from 2006?  Come on!  Anyway, guys, I’m sorry for the
 rant, but I had to get it out somewhere, right?



 From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com]
 On Behalf Of Greg Keogh
 Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2013 7:50 PM
 To: ozDotNet
 Subject: Re: New Web API project



 Thanks, glad to know I'm not alone, that link looks sensible and will save
 a lot of suffering -- Greg





 --
 Heinrich Breedt

 “Do not wait to strike till the iron is hot