Fw: [ozmidwifery] what doctors learn at med school!
Dear Robyn, Powerful, brilliant letter. I second everything you said. And, in fact, the WHO consensus for health promotion 1986 - nearly 20 years ago recommended the same thing and we are still no further forward. love lizmc edited LEGISLATION Midwifery as a distinct and legitimate nationally registeredprofession. thiscould be achievedif we moved toward a strong cohesive body of midwives regardless of place of practice. work toward a Trans Tasman agreement with New Zealand College of Midwives and the Australian College of Midwives. Theexperience of NZCOM gaining national recognition of midwives would be beneficial in working toward developinganAustralian/New ZealandRegister formidwives. The legal details would need to be researched by midwives. Without doubt Midwives should be the providers of care for the majority of healthy, well pregnant women (around 85%). Nurses are the providers of care for the rest of the sick, ill and ageing population. There arevast and extreme differences in the models of care EDUCATION FOR WOMEN midwives need to focusattention to providing information and education for women with emphasis onthewonderful, innate ability they have and what can achieve when they avoid the sick and interventionist medical model of obstetric care. PUBLICITY Women who have been hurt, abused and damaged by the outrageous amount of unnecessary interventions should be encouraged to write and publish -books,Videos, CD's, DVD'sabout their experiences so that more of our future generations can access this information.Obstetric practice is responsible forthe unnecessary interventionist service they provide, little wonder they work in a model embellished by fear.Having said that, I really believe that they do not set out with the intent to harm women they are primarily influenced by their limitations ofknowledgeabout natural healthy pregnancy and birth.We knowonly 15% of women may need some level of medical care and with these 15% only some intervention will be necessary,and most importantly this 15% of women equally need one to one midwife care usually in a more interdisciplinary environment, depending on the extent of their illnessthey may even need some nursing care. PUBLIC AND PROFESSIONAL EDUCATION There is equally a lack of professional and community education and understanding of pregnant, birthing and post birth women it should be a compulsory part of theeducation of all obstetricians and midwives to attendthe care of a 'woman with a midwife' during pregnancy and birthing at home. MEDIA no more distortions!! portrayal of midwives / pregnancy and birth as a normal life event
[ozmidwifery] healing and connecting after c/sec /violent birth
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] healing and connecting after c/sec WAS dimensions - violent birth Melissa, wonderful message to pass on to everyone ..thanks lizmc I started massaging my boy when he was quite new, and we both got so much out of it - we still do (he's 3 now * skin-to-skin as soon as possible after birth. * telling my child the things I wanted to say to him when he was born, but couldn't because we were separated after the birth I whispered those words to him at night as he slept. I told him after his afternoon nap, when he was still drowsy. I will never forget the look of wonderment and delight on his face (this was only quite recently). That has been very healing for me.
Re: [ozmidwifery] autism study
Megan, don't know about MMR, or the WA study, but if you look at www.birthworks.com/primalhealth/ you will find the research database violent birth and autism lizmc Subject: [ozmidwifery] autism study Does anyone know more about the study done in WA looking at children with autism and their birth experience. Have a snippet from The Advertiser, saying women who had experienced difficult births or caesarean were more likely to have a child develop autism than those who had a normal birth. The mothers were more likely to be older, to have had an epidural and to have had an emergency or elective caesarean. Interesting thought. How does this link into the increasing diagnosis of autism and our escalating intervention rates. Also I am interested in the links with MMR vaccine and the suggestions of the disease developing in the bowel. Are babies who have had a traumatic birth experience at greater risk of the MMR vaccine? Lots of questions, wheres the answers. Megan -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] what doctors learn at med school!
Title: Message Absolutely Vicki,because if there's no contrast between dehumanized birth vis a vis humanized birth they don't know. I want to help in this regard. Love lizmc - Original Message - From: Vicki Chan To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 11:54 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] what doctors learn at med school! Hey Tina nuff nuff...nah, dont believe that you were lost for words for a minute!!! You still sure managed to say quite a bit!! One thing I'd really like to do is present my (our...Nic and Vic) stuff to the med students/medicos/obstetricians... Vicki -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 9:17 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [ozmidwifery] what doctors learn at med school! Hi again all,had an interesting afternoon today at a BBQ with some old work mates...One friend who I worked at CSIRO with eons ago (past life stuff) like me had a radical change in occupation and went to do nursing...she finished her nursing about 8 years agoanyhowshe brought a friend to the BBQ ...a "work colleague" I just assumed this woman was a nurse too...anyhow got chatting as you do...my friend announced to her "work colleague" that I was doing midwifery.So your a nurse too she asked...No...I'm not a nurse doing the new Bachelor of Midwiferybla bla"Direct entry" my friend announcesone of THOSE midwives who think they are not part of the nursing profession. ...Well that went down REAL well...she always did know how to get my hackles up...thought I had educated her better than that...but can see she has been educated by others than just I...:-((No not "direct entry" I replied...we don't do direct entry nursingor direct entry medicine...or direct law or accounting...bla bla bla..Anyhow ...finally this "work colleague" couldn't resist and announced that she was a MO...doing her internshipand wanted to know more about "the likes of you" doing midwifery without nursing first"do you do any physiology???" bla bla bla I guess you can imagine the conversation from there...The conversion progressed quickly back to medicine...I wanted to pick her brains about being a beginning practitioner and her thoughts on the health care system...What struck me immediately was her sheer arrogance and lack of understanding of peopleamazingAccording to her the general public are all "fu-k--- nuff nuffs""parents have no parenting skills".."the public all just want to sue us". She was just fascinated to think that I would even consider private practice as a midwife..."too scary - you must be fu--ing mad!!" and "noone from uni is even considering obs and gynae as its just too risky". This woman is 25 years old and already educated with the 'fear factor'. She stated openly that as doctors they are taught at med school that a "trusting relationship with your patients" is non existent as the patient only looks to the doctor fix up their problems and will sue if they don't..and the doctor looks at the patient thinking all you want is to sue meI was totally blown away by this...oh yeh she says..."its the underlying premise in all that we do"..."we have to always be thinking at every moment...are you the one who is going to make my life hell?"How scary is this folks???These are the obs of the future...This woman has this level of fear ingrained into her already..I couldn't believe what I was hearingI was almost lost for words...beleive it or not!Ahhh I said..."that's where midwives have it all over doctorsour basic premise is trustfor if we can't establish our professional relationships on thatlike you guys are discovering...when it all comes tumbling downyou have nothing else"Trust and communication.two important factors in not getting sued I'd reckon..but hey who am Ionly a "nuf nuff" in her eyes...Cheers Tina P.
Re: [ozmidwifery] another horror story: closure is a myth
Hello all, I'm just thinking,with the abundance of 'horror stories' ie violent births, is there a possibility of a 'class action' against medicalized childbirth and maternity services through the Commonwealth Ombudsman. Would this force change?? any comments? any lawyers? any advice? love lizmc Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] another horror story: closure is a myth Ann, I think you are right - I think that after a "birth rape" experience a woman does not find closure at all. I think that if she is as lucky as i have been and finds wonderful people like all of you to both vent to and to shed some understanding of the situation and hope of it not recurring, then she may find acceptance of what has happened and find a way to live with it as an unfortunate thing that happened. I don't think that anyone can really find closure to something so traumatic which has no closure - closure to meinsinuates an understanding of the reason why and acceptance of it. I don't think there can ever be true closure because there is no real reason "Why?" there is no answer. I found closure after the traumatic yet acceptable birth of my daughter, I got sick with Pre eclampsia - there was a reason. With my son there was NO reason for the stupidity and cruelty of them and therefore there can never be true closure. Hope that makes sence as I know for many midwives who have been unable to protect women from these things that their inner torment has no closure - there is just an acceptance of the things we cannot change and a strength to change the events of the future to prevent a recurance. Regards Rhonda. ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Saturday, November 09, 2002 22:17:05 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] another horror story: closure is a myth Dear list,On a film/documentary on rape a counsellor made thefollowing statement,"Closure is a myth, a woman afterbeing raped is never the same."She then quoted a casewhere a woman never slept more than 2-3 hours,worerunners to bed( she thought that if she had beingwearing runners she could have escaped) and hermarriage broke up.I thought after a horrible birth awoman is never the same.I know I am not the same womanbefore I had Edwina almost 4 years ago.I changedinsurance co. so a homebirth would be covered and soonafter having Samuel we changed to just basic cover asI no longer trusted private hospitals( Edwina was bornin a private hospital).I also started settingboundaries with people and with the time and moneysaved started a small investment portfolio.This hasgrown over time to possibly giving us in the next 1-2years a basic income.Is this better than before?Quitehonestly I don't know but it is 'different' to where Iwas 4 years ago.Ann --- Andrea Bilcliff[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: MessageYesterday Iheard about a woman who birthed recently. She arrived at hospital already 5cm dilated after just having a 'show' at home. She was pressured into having an ARM to 'get things moving along' (?!?!). This was her first baby and he was born with the aid of forceps (after a failed vacuum extraction) just four hours later for failure to progress! There was no fetal distress prior to the birth but her baby needed resuscitation and went 'battered bruised' to the nursery. She was told that if her baby had gone to term (he was 10 days 'early') he would have died because the cord was around his neck! The woman developed an infection and is having breastfeeding problems. Needless to say she wants a homebirth if there is a next time. Vicki's right...it is tragic : ( Andrea B - Original Message - From: Vicki Chan To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 12:37 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] another horror story A woman I spoke to yesterday spoke of her starstruck obstetrician being overly excited about the celeb status of her husband...her labour was rocking along beautifully but it didnt look like hubby would make it for the birth...the ob arranged for her to have an epidural which rendered her incapacitated when her husband finally made it... no problem! that's why God invented Vacuum Extractors!! Her first babe she'd managed to birth unaided. Tragic! We could (and will, no doubt) go on!
[ozmidwifery] education
Listers, "obstetrician actually said that she could try a vaginal birth but a hospital based midwife told her to go for the c-section option" There is continuing peril in our midst. What an opportunity for education!! Roll on Vicki and Nic! love lizmc
Re: [ozmidwifery] obs and gobs
Title: Message !! love lizmc - Original Message - From: Vicki Chan To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2002 12:42 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] obs and gobs this fine bit of teaching I just came across from the uni of melb obs and gobs... should set our little hearts at rest... Primigravida Labour often begins slowly (the latent phase). False alarms or spurious labour are common. The duration of labour averages 14 h, augmentation with oxytocin is often indicated, epidural analgesia frequently requested. The 2nd stage is often particularly slow due to the poor compliance of vagina and pelvic floor. Instrumental vaginal delivery is not uncommonly needed. dont tell me they aint got faith!!! or what about this one... Natural Course of Obstructed Labour Primigravida The uterus responds to slow progress with a reduction in the intensity and frequency of contractions thereby further exacerbating the lack of progress. The natural course of neglected obstructed labour is to contract on and off for several days. The presenting part becomes impacted in the pelvic brim, the intervening tissues undergo pressure necrosis, infection develops, the fetus dies and with the skull bones collapsed, the fetus is able to deliver vaginally. An obstetric fistula is the long-term result. please, bring me the forceps this very minute!! Vicki http://www.obsgyn.unimelb.edu.au/Teaching/MHW%20Protocols/Obstetrics/Intra-Partum%20Care.htm
Re: [ozmidwifery] another horror story: closure is a myth
How about maternity services?? Look at smokers with their class action against big tobacco - big tobacco was caught out because they lied; they manipulated nicotine levels in cigarettes. Maternity services and hospitals purport to provide safety and the best for women, which is a lie, Many studies and research papers have repeatedly shown medicalized childbirth to be harmful to those 80% of women and babies who can birth physiologically. There is total manipulation involved in maternity services, for both health professionals and women. Manipulation and lie. Would this not do? love lizmc But who exactly would the "class action" be against? Nobody wants to take responsibility and what you would find is that the gaverning bodies would pass it onto individual doctors and then they would have the age old catch cry "No proof" or "But the outcome was not negative" so there is no case. Trauma and stress do not seem to count as negative when it comes to the outcome so long as they don't kill mother or baby. A wonderful and interesting thought if we could get someone to be responsible. regards Rhonda. ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sunday, November 10, 2002 09:13:02 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] another horror story: closure is a myth Hello all, I'm just thinking,with the abundance of 'horror stories' ie violent births, is there a possibility of a 'class action' against medicalized childbirth and maternity services through the Commonwealth Ombudsman. Would this force change?? any comments? any lawyers? any advice? love lizmc Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] another horror story: closure is a myth Ann, I think you are right - I think that after a "birth rape" experience a woman does not find closure at all. I think that if she is as lucky as i have been and finds wonderful people like all of you to both vent to and to shed some understanding of the situation and hope of it not recurring, then she may find acceptance of what has happened and find a way to live with it as an unfortunate thing that happened. I don't think that anyone can really find closure to something so traumatic which has no closure - closure to meinsinuates an understanding of the reason why and acceptance of it. I don't think there can ever be true closure because there is no real reason "Why?" there is no answer. I found closure after the traumatic yet acceptable birth of my daughter, I got sick with Pre eclampsia - there was a reason. With my son there was NO reason for the stupidity and cruelty of them and therefore there can never be true closure. Hope that makes sence as I know for many midwives who have been unable to protect women from these things that their inner torment has no closure - there is just an acceptance of the things we cannot change and a strength to change the events of the future to prevent a recurance. Regards Rhonda. ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Saturday, November 09, 2002 22:17:05 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] another horror story: closure is a myth Dear list,On a film/documentary on rape a counsellor made thefollowing statement,"Closure is a myth, a woman afterbeing raped is never the same."She then quoted a casewhere a woman never slept more than 2-3 hours,worerunners to bed( she thought that if she had beingwearing runners she could have escaped) and hermarriage broke up.I thought after a horrible birth awoman is never the same.I know I am not the same womanbefore I had Edwina almost 4 years ago.I changedinsurance co. so a homebirth would be covered and soonafter having Samuel
[ozmidwifery] Fw: VERY, VERY URGENT: PI Insurance, NMAP the Greens
WE MUST HAVE SUPPORT FOR THE GREENS IN MELBOURNE ON WEDNESDAY 13TH NOVEMBER AT 11AM. Venue to be informed. Read on.. The issue of PI insurance is very complex. If the Labor govt is returned, it intends to change the various Acts to make insurance mandatory as a condition of registration. If Labour loses, its quite likely that Liberal will implement these changes anyway, as the health department is quite advanced in preparing the new policies. The Nurses Act, at the moment, states that Nurses Boards "may" refuse to register anyone who does not have adequate insurance. The time is coming when midwives will be pressured into submission, with the threat of unprofessional conduct and deregistration. THE GREENS HEALTH POLICY, WHICH IS HIGHLIGHTING NMAP, AND DEMANDING CHOICE FOR WOMEN, IS THE OPTION TO SHOW BOTH STATE AND FEDERAL GOVERNMENT THAT WOMEN ARE SERIOUS ABOUT WHAT IS DONE TO THEM IN BIRTHING.
[ozmidwifery] out of hospital birth for American women
Listers, If you haven't seen this www.gentlebirth.org lizmc
[ozmidwifery] Commonwealth Office of the Status of Women
http://www.osw.dpmc.gov.au/index.html Commonwealth Office of the Status of Women.url Description: Binary data
[ozmidwifery] Fw: Commonwealth Office of the Status of Women
Dear Listers, Ignore previous email. Liz McAlpine sent this link. No need to open the attachment. Click the link click - Our networks click- Womens NGO network click - Australian Women Working Together and there! you have it -a list of organizations who may help with the National Maternity Action Plan to reform maternity services. http://www.osw.dpmc.gov.au/index.html Commonwealth Office of the Status of Women.url Description: Binary data
[ozmidwifery] Fw: COMPLAINT
Attention Denise, No go, as expected the government can do what it likes. Robyn thought of trying Human rights and Equal Opportunity Commission, but when I called they said no way. As expected. lizmc Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 8:51 PM I have lodged a complaint to ACCC on unfair practices; anti competitive practices; unconsionable conduct. And, the lack of consumer protection to pregnant and birthing women. thanks, Liz Mc -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] registration
Marilyn, Are you also a nurse? Because when I told the Vic Nurses Board that I only wanted to register as a midwife, they told me that it was not possible. I asked about the new midwives - those graduates without nursing- I was told they'd think of that then. Liz Mc - Original Message - From: Aviva Sheb'a To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 4:17 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] registration Hearty, hearty CONGRATULATIONS, Marilyn!!! Well done! May you assist women and babies -- and fathers --in beautiful births for many years to come! Love, Aviva - Original Message - From: Marilyn Kleidon To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 7:42 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] registration It seems I have a few of options re work (non of which are caseload - laterI hope) which I am mulling over; BUT my big news at the moment is:OK!! you have it hot off the internet... I am registered to practise as anon-nurse, midwife only, in Queensland, Australia as of November 7th, 2002.You can see this for yourself by going to.www.qnc.qld.gov.au
Re: [ozmidwifery] training
Kathleen, You're right. That is one problem with midwives and midwifery - the lack of cohesion. Liz Mc - Original Message - From: Kathleen Fahy To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 4:53 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] "training" Dear All, It is a real disappointment to me that the national ACMI competencies have not been adopted by NSW nurses registration board. It deminishes midwifery as a profession when there is this division. Kathleen Fahy --Kathleen FahyProfessor of MidwiferyHead of School of Nursing and MidwiferyFaculty of HealthThe University of NewcastleUniversity Drive,Callaghan, 2308 Ph 02 49215966 Fax 02 49216981 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 11/07/02 03:47pm Dear Liz The ACMI competency standards have not been adopted by all registering authorities. For example the Nurses Registration Board of NSW has a set of seven competencies for midwives which bear little resemblance to the ACMI competencies. They can be access at www.nursesreg.nsw.gov.au. Part of my role is to assess overseas qualified midwives seeking authorisation to practice midwifery. Happy to talk to you about that at anytime Janet -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, 5 November 2002 4:08 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] "training" In a message dated 5/11/02 3:15:31 PM AUS Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Dear midwife students.I need to review a training program/strategy.Can anyone send me something, with competencies/objectives??Many thanksLiz McAlpine Hi Liztry the ACMI webite at www.acmi.org.au...under the link of profssional documents you will find the ACMI Competency Standards for Midwives (2002). These standards are the minimum 'benchmarks' for midwifery practice.Cheers Tina P.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Susanna Joy arrived :)
Well done to Jacqui!! - Original Message - From: Margie Perkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 7:06 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Susanna Joy arrived :) Jaqqueline, thanks for posting your birth story. It's lovely and shows such a lot of learning and gained strength of your own confictions since you first queried the advice you were getting. You're an inspiration to all women wondering ( doubting) the path they are on and altering course. Enjoy your babies and family. Margie At Thu, 7 Nov 2002 14:23:33 -, Jaqueline Marwick ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: BIG BUNDLE OF JOY :)) Hi everyone! It's me, your Brazilian silent member again. Most of you won't remember me, but I'd like to sincerely thank all of you who have given me a few words of encouragement since I was 39 weeks pregnant and being pressured by medical staff to be induced. This is a great mailing list and reading it has been most edifying, challenging and inspirational to me. Thanks to Sally Westbury, Mary Murphy, Debby_M, Andrea Robertson, Vicki and especially Lois Wattis with whom I met in person a few times. Above all I thank my own mother who gave birth to 5 children naturally and has counseled me to let my body do its own performance for my sake and the sake of baby Susanna Joy. My doctor is known as the baby doctor in the area, assisting over 40 births per month and all labeled as normal deliveries. I spent my whole pregnancy telling him how I wanted to have a natural birth this time (I was induced with my previous baby and didn't have such a good experience), and how I wanted dim lights, no drugs, etc.. I had typed my birth plan very clearly and etc. When it came to my 39 weeks he suddenly changed his discourse and told me I needed to be induced because my baby was too big. Midwives and RNs telling me that my placenta would get too mature, and/or my amniotic fluid would not be enough to feed my baby, etc etc etc. They wanted to have a ctg trace every so often and one nurse even wanted to use some sort of vibrator on my belly to make my baby jump. Oh the horror I had to go through and had to be even rude or else they would have their way. The doctor who is so hard to catch (yes, it seems doctors have a very precious time and clients' time is usually not counted as valuable, not worth even peanuts) was suddenly ringing my house and making bookings with the hospital for my induction. I kept saying NO and canceling these bookings and with the support of my husband we waited until my darling baby girl decided it was her time. It was 10 days later, when I had just the one strong contraction and off we went to the hospital arriving there at 2:30 am to find out I was already fully dilated. My membranes had not ruptured as yet, and the contractions were then quite strong. I asked to be on my knees as I found that to be the most comfortable position at the time. As if things were not going fast enough, this midwife kept asking me to let her rupture my membranes as it would get things going. I would not give in; of course, it was only a matter of her waiting a little bit. My membranes ruptured naturally at 3:20 am and my darling baby Susanna Joy was born at 3:40 am. All in all, it took us only 1 hour and 10 minutes from the time we arrived in the hospital. As soon as I arrived I asked them to ring the doctor, but they rang much later, he arrived just after the birth, which was ok, as I was feeling he had not much to do apart from giving me a few stitches on my perineum area. Susanna was born spontaneously weighing 4.604 kilos (or around 10.2 pounds in the old money), she was born very beautifully, and ready to breastfeed and even bite LOL! She is now 3 and a half weeks old. I haven't written before as I now have my hands pretty full, we also have another baby (Daniel) who is just 18 months old older than Susanna. Physically I am a wreck, as I still haven't managed to get a routine with sleep etc, but I am so happy that my baby girl had her way and came to this world so well! We are a very happy family here in WA! And I am so glad that I could finally have the chance of giving birth naturally! Now I need to join the TUT club (Two Under Two) _ double the work and double the blessings! Love, Jackieurally! Now I need to join the TUT club (Two Under Two) _ double the work and double the blessings! Love, Jackie Looking for a free email account? Get one now at http://www.freemail.com.au/ -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] registration
Well, good on you Marilyn.There will be
more following you.(I canny wait!!) I think RM is right.
You are registered as a midwife. I
worked with a lady in Abu Dhabi - direct entry midwife who was going to NSW and
got registration there.
love,
Liz
- Original Message -
From:
Marilyn
Kleidon
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 1:17
AM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery]
registration
NO Liz I am not a nurse, I am direct entry fom
the USA, I am home birth trained/educated except for the 4 weeks I spent at
St. George Delivery Suite and the 3 weeks at Mareeba under supervision. Which
actually is why I said non-nurse because on my registration paper, beside the
nurse category is printed non-nurse, and on the bottom the paper says
"non-nurse midwife only". You can see this on the QNC web site. And the QNC
does have the ACMI competencies (which had to be checked off during the
supervision) and a lovely ACMI midwife handbook that is sent out with the
authorisation. It is interesting, in my job search I have sent a few
letters out, one to a private hospital up north mainly because it is close to
relatives, well they calledme to find out my ceasarean experience which
I had to admit willingly was very small, no, I have not topped off an epidural
after a c/s. All I can say is people really don't read cv/resumes do they!
Anyway, I don't think they will be offering me a job, which is probably a good
thing all round.
So, I am just a little confused as to what
initials to put after my name. In Washington I wasLM for licensed
midwife which distinguishes someone like me from a LCNM (licensed certified
nursemidwife) in Washington. I am more than happy to right RM but I
think really I am an AM (authorised midwife) or maybe a NNM (non-nuse
midwife). I just really don't want to misrepresent myself.
Back to the various nursing councils/boards, I
did get lots of excellent advice from everyone on this list, however I
do think many people thought Queensland might be the last state to authorise
me. I downloaded the application forms from each state and I thought
Queendland's were the mostuser friendly to someone like me. I mean they
had a box to check for midwife only. Of courseI am originally a
Queenslanderso I am thrilled that the QNC approved my application. I
guess if I choose to travel then other states also have to approve me under
mutual recognition.
marilyn (still thrilled)
- Original Message -
From:
elizabeth mcalpine
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 3:07
AM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery]
registration
Marilyn, Are you also a nurse?
Because when I told the Vic Nurses Board that I only wanted to register as a
midwife, they told me that it was not possible.
I asked about the new midwives - those
graduates without nursing- I was told they'd think of that
then.
Liz Mc
- Original Message -
From:
Aviva
Sheb'a
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002
4:17 PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery]
registration
Hearty, hearty CONGRATULATIONS, Marilyn!!!
Well done! May you assist women and babies -- and fathers --in
beautiful births for many years to come!
Love,
Aviva
- Original Message -
From: Marilyn
Kleidon
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 7:42 AM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] registration
It seems I have a few of options re work (non of which are
caseload - laterI hope) which I am mulling over; BUT my big news at
the moment is:OK!! you have it hot off the internet... I am
registered to practise as anon-nurse, midwife only, in Queensland,
Australia as of November 7th, 2002.You can see this for yourself by
going to.www.qnc.qld.gov.au
Re: [ozmidwifery] dimensions - violent birth
Title: Message Good tip Vicki - I'll spread the word and incorporate it into my practice. love, Liz Mc - Original Message - From: Vicki Chan To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 12:37 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] dimensions - violent birth Something I like to do for Ceasarean born babies...and breech born too...is spend time massaging the babe from crown down (for some reason, I went to write 'song-lines'here...interesting...) the body to the toes, making sure every part of the body is stimulated...simulating the passage through the vagina... the mothers have felt very good about doing this themselves...a gift to their child... Vicki -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of elizabeth mcalpineSent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 3:13 PMTo: ozmidwiferyCc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [ozmidwifery] dimensions - violent birth Thanks to whoever sent the transcript. I have since inundated the ABC dimensions with my comments and request for help to get the message across. arrgghh! Its just too much to bear sometimes. Just yesterday, a fellow student and I were chatting after doing some work. She has a 15 yr old. Horrible, violent birth (the usual) After about 18 months, she returned to the hospital to discuss what had happened to her.That helped her a bit butshe still grieves. No more children followed. In actual fact, I make it a point to know birth stories from every woman I know - (I should collect them for a book or something) Oh and here's another. Discussing NMAP, violent birth vs humanized birth etc. as usual with all and sundry one woman at work was listening so intently and I thought, "hello, there's something here". On asking, it turned out that her third child, at full dilatation had cord prolapse. Big emergency, she said. Upside down and then hauled out with forceps. She was advised my a very wise woman, to provide excess sensory stimulation to enable/create neurophysiological recovery caused by damage due to forceps. Very thankful she did that, because as a toddler it helped him develop normally. He's 18 now,but has a very 'dark' side. ie suicidal thoughts. Liz Mc
Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: training
Andrea, Yes, I'm interested thanks. c/o 75 Mitchell St., Brunswick, Melbourne. 3056 - Original Message - From: Andrea Robertson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 6:29 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Re: training Hi Liz, If you want to investigate a training that is not within a University, you would be welcome to investigate/review our Graduate Diploma in Childbirth Education. We have clearly defined competencies and performance criteria for all aspects of this course. Let me know. Cheers Andrea At 17:52 5/11/2002, elizabeth mcalpine wrote: Thanks Tina, I have that.. I was thinking that in your training you would have 'competency units' leading to performance criteria. Do you??? love, Liz - Original Message - From: mailto:TinaPettigrew;aol.com[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: mailto:ozmidwifery;acegraphics.com.au[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 4:08 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] training In a message dated 5/11/02 3:15:31 PM AUS Eastern Daylight Time, mailto:lizmcalpine;ihug.com.au[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Dear midwife students. I need to review a training program/strategy. Can anyone send me something, with competencies/objectives?? Many thanks Liz McAlpine Hi Liz try the ACMI webite at http://www.acmi.org.au...underwww.acmi.org.au...under the link of profssional documents you will find the ACMI Competency Standards for Midwives (2002). These standards are the minimum 'benchmarks' for midwifery practice. Cheers Tina P. - Andrea Robertson Birth International * ACE Graphics * Associates in Childbirth Education e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.birthinternational.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] hurtful birth experiences
PennyB Yes, yes, yes, I think all of us. In the past, I've come home hundreds of times shocked to the core, angry, distressed, and totally traumatized. And yup, feeling completely and utterly powerless. THAT'S WHY IT HAS TO CHANGE!!! But no, there is some slight improvementand it'll get better. Sometimes, I think I'm using the list too much - some days I'm so disturbed. Some days I can think of nothing else but how to change things...och. where's ma whisky?? No, take a few deep breaths instead... love to all Liz Mc - Original Message - From: Dr Penelope A Barrett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Ozmidwifery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 10:15 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] hurtful birth experiences I wonder how many midwives have also felt violated and traumatised (but not been able to find expression) for having to partake in care of women in hospital that has trauma as part of it - as a witness? I'm reflecting on some really bad vibes I can remember and the (?) shame/guilt/shock (?) at having to be witness to some of this and yet not in control of the person who is perpetuating it. I'll have to give this some thought - it is really disturbing me - may be an explanation for some tensions I carry. PennyB. On 7/11/02 7:21 PM, Margie Perkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My heart goes out to everyone who is sharing or has had soul and body hurting births. It is not ok. And must change. I have had the honour of supporting a number of women who have previously been traumatised by caesareans (or other things) and it is something so special to be part of their new journey. love and the greatest respect to you all. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Is it really necessary?
Title: Message Hi Andrea, Post it if you get it please. love Liz Mc - Original Message - From: Andrea Bilcliff To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Helen Ireland Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 12:34 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Is it really necessary? Vicki, Last year Helen Ireland was alsolooking for this article. We didn't have much luck then but she may have found it since so I'm sending her a copy of this email too. Andrea - Original Message - From: Vicki Chan To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 1:20 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Is it really necessary? Dear all... anyone recall the research many years ago that had half the subjects ask the question "is it really necessary" when faced with the prospect of intervention.? Astounding changes to the outcome of birth. A reference would be great! Vicki
Re: [ozmidwifery] Obstetric Perception - Your thoughts?
Yes, I'm interested to pass this on to a midwife in Kununurra at the Aboriginal medical service there. Liz - Original Message - From: Marilyn Kleidon [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 4:36 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Obstetric Perception - Your thoughts? Leanne : how did you get this up and running?? It sounds amazing and needs to be duplicated (multiplicated). marilyn - Original Message - From: leanne wynne [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 2:39 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Obstetric Perception - Your thoughts? Hi Vicki, Yes, I'm still here battling the archaic controlling attitudes of obstetricians and hospital beaurocracy. Because of the insurance debacle the local independent midwives can no longer practice so they are refering women to me as I am the only person able to provide free woman-centred pregnancy care. As a result about 20% of our clients are non-indigenous and these include professional women such as midwives, registered nurses and a naturopath. It's rather ironic I think that the lowest socio-economic group in the state, that is aboriginal women, are the only ones receiving the best evidence based care. All the best, Leanne. From: Vicki Chan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Obstetric Perception - Your thoughts? Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 21:17:44 +1000 I went to visit Leanne in my past life as 'the travelling midwife' wonderful work going on! Hi Leanne and glad to 'see'you here! Vicki -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery;acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of leanne wynne Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 11:17 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Obstetric Perception - Your thoughts? Hi All, I run a Maternity and Women's Health Service within an Aboriginal Community Controlled Health Service in rural Victoria. I have a terrific manager who allows me to work autonomously so long as I keep him informed. An Aboriginal Maternal Health worker and I work as a team and we provide 24hour/day on call for those in labour, (or any other crisis) antenatal care, either in the client's own home or in the Health Service, labour support at home and/or in the local hospital (the local midwives are wonderfully supportive of our service) and postnatal care. We work whatever hours our women need us. We dont get paid for 'on-call' or 'overtime' but are able to take 'time-off-in-lieu' when things are quiet. In my opinion if midwives aim to provide continuity of care then 8 hour shifts are not an option. Leanne. From: Debby M [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [ozmidwifery] Obstetric Perception - Your thoughts? Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 07:06:24 + _ Unlimited Internet access for only $21.95/month. Try MSN! http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/2monthsfree.asp -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. _ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] introducing birthtalk
Title: introducing "birthtalk" Dear Melissa, There are just too many traumatic births. Your group will grow huge - I'm sure that thousands of women will benefit in some small way, by sharing their stories. Liz Mc - Original Message - From: rem melissa bruijn To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 9:36 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] introducing "birthtalk" Hi - I have been lurking for a little while now, and after all the discussion on Birth Trauma and c/secs etc, I felt I must come out of lurkdom and introduce myself!Firstly, for all the women who have been sharing their traumatic experiences (Rhonda, Jo) - I am so very sorry for what you had to go through to meet your babies. It breaks my heart. I am grateful for your honesty - thank you.I, too had a traumatic caesarean, three and a half years ago. Actually, Cathy Cornack (who was interviewed on the Dimensions program) asked me to be interviewed with her for the show...but at that stage, I just couldn't do it. I was still too raw and grieving. It took me 2.5 years to begin to grieve, and then it came out with a vengeance. My story is so similar to Cathy's that we couldn't believe it when we sat and compared notes : our babies were born a month apart, planned Birth Centre birth in Sydney (we both have since moved to Brisbane), very long labours, OP babies, non-supportive carers, sectioned at around 9 cms, no post-natal support for the experiences, difficulties bonding, and breastfeeding, and even just surviving every day.I have since done a lot of personal research, and a lot of crying, and a lot of talking, and sharing on lists such as the ICAN (International Caesarean Awareness Network) list and the hbac (Home Birth After C/sec) lists. It has been a long road to healing. In fact Jenny Gamble, the midwife interviewed on NEw Dimensions, was instrumental in my healing, as I spent about an hour crying to her and sharing my story, in the early stages of my grieving. She really helped me separate the grief from the trauma and made me aware that the trauma would not go away on its own - it must be acknowledged and dealt with.So, anyway, now I have come such a long way, I have wanted to share what I have learned, and help other women heal, or avoid what I went through. So, along with my sister-in-law (a midwife and childbirth educator), and a mutual family friend (a homebirth vbac mum), we have decided to combine forces and start a positive birthing group.Our group is called "birthtalk : Sharing, Empowering, Celebrating Birth". We aim to : * provide a forum for women to share their thoughts, expectations and experiences of birth* empower women by providing access to current and accurate literature information abouttheir birthing options *encourage an atmosphere of celebration of birth, and of ourselves as women.We had 10 women at the last meeting, 7 who have had caesareans, and 3 of those women have had two c/sec births. All of these women have been traumatised by their experiences except one (who was arguing right up until theatre). We had one newly pg first time mum, and 2 home birth mums (one was a vbac). Actually, when we debriefed at the end of the meeting, the first-time mum said that she had felt out of place at the start of the meeting, then realised that she thought she could just be "taken care of" and let the Dr look after her...but now realises that she is going to need to read more, and take more responsibility, and be more informed. That just sent a glow to my heart.Anyway - just wanted to say hello - and thank you to all of you for what you are doing to reform the way we birth, and for having the courage to ask the questions.Melissa Bruijnbirthtalk meets monthly at Toowong, in Brisbane, Australiaemail us at : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Melissa : ph (07) 3356 7449 Debby : ph (07) 3379 7424Karen : ph (07) 3720 1101
Re: [ozmidwifery] training
OK Tina. So how does your training address the competencies for example, Competency standard 7 at each point or unit, what is taught?? Love Liz feel free to email me off list if this may be boring to others. [EMAIL PROTECTED] And in fact, stay in touch with me anytime!! Howdy Liznot quite sure what you mean by 'competency units'but can say that all our units are based on the ACMI Competency Standards for Midwives (2002)...Code of Practice for Midwives (1999), and the ACMI Code of Ethics (1995).Cheers Tina.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Victorian Election Action
Title: Victorian Election Action Justine, I live in Brunswick. After reading the transcript of Dimensions, and Aviva'a story - I am boiling!!! Liz Mc - Original Message - From: Justine Caines To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; Leslie Cc: OzMid List ; Joy Johnston ; Sally-Anne Brown Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 2:57 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Victorian Election Action This message is of particular interest to Victorians, sorry to everyone else!!Hello AllThe time has come to stop talking about change and get going with some ACTION.The Victorian election is nigh and the Labor only have a minority government. John Thwaites the Vic Health Minister has refused to meet with the Maternity Coalition over reform and NMAP. He is also aware of the Nurses Registration Board being able to de-register midwives who practice without PI insurance, and at the same time has refused to assist IPMs with PI.It is now time to show Labor we mean business and demand to be heard. The Greens want to make NMAP a feature of their health policy launch so we need as many women as possible to show the Bracks Gov their is votes in this. If you can do one thing to support NMAP please do this. At the moment it looks like it will be on Nov 21, but I will have definite details in the next couple of days. (Any midwives out there can you please commit to bringing a few clients/former clients with you, also Tina we need the Bmidders!!!)If you are in the following electorates I suggest you write a letter to your local member and to Thwaites saying how unwise it is not to listen to women and their familes and how you intend to vote accordingly. Should people want/need a sample letter to base their around I am happy to help.The Bracks Government is focussing on the following seats in Metro MelbMitcham, including the suburbs of Mitcham and BlackburnBentleigh, including the suburbs of Bentleigh and MoorabbinEltham, including the suburbs of Lower Plenty and ResearchNarrewarren South including the suburbs of Hallam and Narrewarran SouthCranbourne including the suburbs of Frankston North, Carrum Downs and CranbourneThe inner city seats are also very important re preference deals and includeMelbourne including the suburbs of Flemington, ParkvilleRichmond including the suburbs of Clifton Hill, Fitzroy and RichmondBrunswick including the suburbs of Moreland, BrunswickNortrhcote including the suburbs of Northcote, Fairfield and Thornbury, In solidarity Justine Caines
[ozmidwifery] training
Dear midwife students. I need to review a training program/strategy. Can anyone send me something, with competencies/objectives?? Many thanks Liz McAlpine
Re: [ozmidwifery] Love of midwifery: In Union video
Thanks Vicki. - Original Message - From: Vicki Chan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 4:48 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Love of midwifery: In Union video The video is available from both Birth International and Capers! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery;acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of elizabeth mcalpine Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 10:41 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Love of midwifery Hello Rose, The film In Union from Vicki Chan or Nic Edmonstone. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 0402140769 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 0412020836 Enjoy, Liz Mc - Original Message - From: roseandpeter [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 10:24 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Love of midwifery Could someone tell me how I could get a copy of Nic Vicki's video? It sounds too good to miss out on! Rose -Original Message- From: elizabeth mcalpine [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, 28 October 2002 21:22 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Love of midwifery Love of midwiferyI understand completely. I came home crying tonight because some film festival organizer wouldn't come to see Nic Vicki's video about humanized birth, which should be diseminated around Australia. (working on that!) And work?? Working on that. Yep. Beating one's head against a brick wall is tough. But when the going gets tough.the tough get going. Keep your spirits up. Humanized birth is a human right!!! Liz Mc - Original Message - From: Smith, Anne To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 8:34 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Love of midwifery Dear list, I am a midwife who is very passionate and very for woman centred care. I love being a midwife and can not imagine not being a midwife, but l have become so dissolusioned with the system that it is breaking my heart. I have been a midwife for 5 years and feel that the system (especially where l work in a large country city) which is medical based has not changed. It has actually become worse. Despite being a strong advocate for evidence based practice and presenting this evidence to doctors and management, l have been walked all over, some midwives have been yelled at, 'put in their places' by RESIDENTS and we have basically have our hands tied. The amount of autonomy we have is decreasing, which makes me feel sometimes that all the hospital wants are obstetric nurses. They do not want midwives because they cause too much trouble. Who cares about the women? Management want to make the doctors happy and stuff the midwives. One example, i am really against the use of CTG's in normal pregnancy and labour. Because of one bad outcome, management wants to introduce admission CTGs for all women who present in labour. I produced for them so much evidence based material which actually states that this is not a good idea, but they introduced it anyway. I dont know why l try because nothing worse. I dont know what to do and all my collegues feel like this as well. We need different models of care, we need to take over the care of women in normal pregnancy and birth. I fully endorse NMAP but will it have an effect in my workplace. Will it really change the obnoxious doctors we work with and management who only care about beds and money? Midwives have tried to get a midwives clinic in this town for 11 years, but has been blocked by the doctors (one in particular). We have no free antenatal care except for one midwife who works with aboriginal women (who we also refer white women to). If women only knew what was going on and they care they get from their doctors is less than substandard. I hate feeling like this. Women are being ripped off, assulted, and their rights violated, and there is only so much l can do. I do the best l can for these women but l feel that it is no where near enough. It makes me feel like l have a hollow pit in my stomach thinking of coming to work. But l love midwifery, and l know that what ever happens, l need to go on... sorry, but l really needed to get this off my chest. MIdwife trying to make a difference Fiona Dunmore NOTICE: CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATION This e-mail message and any accompanying files may contain information that is confidential and subject to privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, and have received the e-mail in error, you are notified that any use, dissemination, distribution, forwarding, printing or copying of the message and any attached files is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail message in error please immediately advise the sender
Re: [ozmidwifery] NMAP and the Staus of Women
wonderful, Megan. OK, who is it in Vic?? Liz - Original Message - From: Larry Megan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 4:30 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] NMAP and the Staus of Women Hi all today myself and another consumer had a lengthy appointment with S.A.'s Minister for the Status of Women. She was very interested in NMAP and what we had to say. She is going to invite us to a number of other meetings so as we can spread the word to other women and their various groups. She sees this as something that she needs to get behind and support. So, how about every Minister for the Staus of Women has a visit from someone who can educate them on NMAP? It seems people are interested and willing to help, we just need to tell them it exists. Lets go out and educate, Megan. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Obstetric Perception - Your thoughts?
Vicki, you are right. Yet, even if informed it just seems like so much effort for some. love, Liz Mc - Original Message - From: Vicki Chan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 4:48 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Obstetric Perception - Your thoughts? My feeling is that when it comes to one2one midwifery care, most midwives are in the same position as the women...they don't know what they are missing!! Vicki -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery;acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Mrs joanne m fisher Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 8:47 AM To: Ozmidwifery Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Obstetric Perception - Your thoughts? I would love the chance to do one-to-one Midwifery care and feel confident that it could be intergrated into one's life. For me though having only worked in the Hospital system it would be a matter of feeling confident/educated to be able to do so, but I am working on this. The long shifts are great, I used to do 12 1/2 hour shifts in California 13 years ago in a small Obstetric Unit and you just get used to them. There were plenty of women who I worked with who managed their families, it's all a matter what one is used to. I also did 10 hour night shifts back in 1983 in W.A. The free time off seemed longer and better quality somehow. I agree a lot of Midwives may find it hard to adjust to life outside the 8 hour shift, but with time and the satisfaction from one-to-one Midwifery care, hopefully things will change. Thank you to all of the wonderful dedicated Midwives and upcoming B Mid Midwives who keep me inspired on this list, in a system difficult at times to cope with. Tonight I'm off to hear Denise speak in Brisbane. Cheers, Joanne. - Original Message - From: Dawn Worgan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002 9:22 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Obstetric Perception - Your thoughts? Debby M wrote: I have recently been corresponding with a friend of mine who is an obstetrician. He supports midwifery models of care, particularly those that offer integrated choice so that midwives and obstetricians can work together. He did state to me however that he believes one of the great obstacles to such models is the reluctance of most midwives to work other than an 8 hour shift, and to possibly have to do away with family time and holidays and to be called out at odd hours to attend births. I am sure there are probably some out there that do like the straight forwardness of shifts however I would be interested to hear the opinion of you ladies (and gentlemen) about your experience of the dedication of midwives when they are expected to provide ongoing antenatal, birth and postnatal support - outside the normal 8 hour shift, as my gut feeling is that the majority of midwives would love the opportunity to be able to fully use their skills in the support and care of pregnant and birthing women without unnecessary guidance or interferrence. Debby Protect your PC - Click here http://g.msn.com/8HMREN/2024 for McAfee.com VirusScan Online -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit to subscribe or unsubscribe. I work in a caseload model of care which means on call plus all the things you mentioned, and personally I love it (most of the time) but when we are looking for other midwives to replace us for long service leave or whatever, we cant get midwives interested and we often have comments like I dont know how you do it! or I have a life outside work (so do I is my reply I fit work in around my life not the other way around) but its a long standing culture we need to work at changing my hope lies in the new direct entry midwives who believe what I do is the norm !So though I wish it wasn't the case I think your friend is right. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] training
Thanks Tina, I have that.. I was thinking that in your training you would have 'competency units' leading to performance criteria. Do you??? love, Liz - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 4:08 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] "training" In a message dated 5/11/02 3:15:31 PM AUS Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Dear midwife students.I need to review a training program/strategy.Can anyone send me something, with competencies/objectives??Many thanksLiz McAlpineHi Liztry the ACMI webite at www.acmi.org.au...under the link of profssional documents you will find the ACMI Competency Standards for Midwives (2002). These standards are the minimum 'benchmarks' for midwifery practice.Cheers Tina P.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Love of midwifery
Hello Rose, The film In Union from Vicki Chan or Nic Edmonstone. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 0402140769 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 0412020836 Enjoy, Liz Mc - Original Message - From: roseandpeter [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 10:24 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Love of midwifery Could someone tell me how I could get a copy of Nic Vicki's video? It sounds too good to miss out on! Rose -Original Message- From: elizabeth mcalpine [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, 28 October 2002 21:22 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Love of midwifery Love of midwiferyI understand completely. I came home crying tonight because some film festival organizer wouldn't come to see Nic Vicki's video about humanized birth, which should be diseminated around Australia. (working on that!) And work?? Working on that. Yep. Beating one's head against a brick wall is tough. But when the going gets tough.the tough get going. Keep your spirits up. Humanized birth is a human right!!! Liz Mc - Original Message - From: Smith, Anne To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 8:34 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Love of midwifery Dear list, I am a midwife who is very passionate and very for woman centred care. I love being a midwife and can not imagine not being a midwife, but l have become so dissolusioned with the system that it is breaking my heart. I have been a midwife for 5 years and feel that the system (especially where l work in a large country city) which is medical based has not changed. It has actually become worse. Despite being a strong advocate for evidence based practice and presenting this evidence to doctors and management, l have been walked all over, some midwives have been yelled at, 'put in their places' by RESIDENTS and we have basically have our hands tied. The amount of autonomy we have is decreasing, which makes me feel sometimes that all the hospital wants are obstetric nurses. They do not want midwives because they cause too much trouble. Who cares about the women? Management want to make the doctors happy and stuff the midwives. One example, i am really against the use of CTG's in normal pregnancy and labour. Because of one bad outcome, management wants to introduce admission CTGs for all women who present in labour. I produced for them so much evidence based material which actually states that this is not a good idea, but they introduced it anyway. I dont know why l try because nothing worse. I dont know what to do and all my collegues feel like this as well. We need different models of care, we need to take over the care of women in normal pregnancy and birth. I fully endorse NMAP but will it have an effect in my workplace. Will it really change the obnoxious doctors we work with and management who only care about beds and money? Midwives have tried to get a midwives clinic in this town for 11 years, but has been blocked by the doctors (one in particular). We have no free antenatal care except for one midwife who works with aboriginal women (who we also refer white women to). If women only knew what was going on and they care they get from their doctors is less than substandard. I hate feeling like this. Women are being ripped off, assulted, and their rights violated, and there is only so much l can do. I do the best l can for these women but l feel that it is no where near enough. It makes me feel like l have a hollow pit in my stomach thinking of coming to work. But l love midwifery, and l know that what ever happens, l need to go on... sorry, but l really needed to get this off my chest. MIdwife trying to make a difference Fiona Dunmore NOTICE: CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATION This e-mail message and any accompanying files may contain information that is confidential and subject to privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, and have received the e-mail in error, you are notified that any use, dissemination, distribution, forwarding, printing or copying of the message and any attached files is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail message in error please immediately advise the sender by return e-mail, or telephone, listed below. You must destroy the original transmission and its contents. Any views expressed within this communication are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of Ramsay Health Care. This communication should not be copied or disseminated without permission. Mildura Base Hospital a member of Ramsay Health Care Telephone: 61 3 5022 Facsimile: 61 3 5022 3234 File: ATT00082.htm -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe
Re: [ozmidwifery] ARM
Well said, so funny and so devastatingly true!! Tragi-comedy indeed! Liz Mc - Original Message - From: Aviva Sheb'a To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 10:56 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] ARM Mess?! considering how much mess -- not just in one room, but on the planet -- all babies/children/adolescents/adults make from conception to decomposition, what's a bit of amniotic fluid once every so many years??? A beautiful flowing indeed. Aviva - Original Message - From: Larry Megan To: ozmidwifery Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 8:08 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] ARM Hi Jo, after reading your e-mail it makes me realise something about myfirst birth. It was suggested by my Ob at 9cm to have waters broken, I wasnearly there and if left longer the waters will come out with pressure andmess every where. He did say it might speed things up a bit. Ignorantly Iagreed but fortunately my baby was coming out, his help or not. This wouldbe another of those informed consent things I suppose. Interestingly mywaters did not break until just before head crowned with my next two babies,strange how my private midwife was NOT AT ALL fussed with this? Thenagain it was my house I was making the mess in!Megan.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth ads
Pinky, I saw that Vicki had responded to you on this. What's the news??? love Liz Mc - Original Message - From: Pinky McKay To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 10:21 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Birth ads Hi Liz, I am a trained advertising copywriter (I have done weekend workshops with some of the top creative directors in Melbourne -with a two year old on my breast -most of these guys were more familiar with the association between breasts and fast cars!)- Yes I can help - my time is very limited but I can take on small chunks and am happy to pass on contacts. I was invited on GMA for an interview this doesnt cost at all -although they have a system where you can pay $3000 for an interview -I have costings for ads in an elusive notebook - they charge per state on a sliding scale so a national ad is a multiple of state prices - Sydney is more expensive withWA and Q lessexpensive,but around $200 per state per 30 second ad - Birthingis a non commercial issue but we need something to pin it on - they arent a current affair show so wont be involved in politics and probably like to think they are not having rabid "birth nazis" on their show. I reckon we could get Nic and Vicki on if GMA was simply sent a copy of their video with a good press release and followup. I am happy to talk to the producer if they are happy to be interviewed!!! They will get about 3 minutes if it comes off - better than 30 seconds!! Then if this comes off - any money raised / sponsorship for an ad can be put towards an ad - TWO bites of the cherry! Do you want me to go ahead and contact the producer?-Vicki are you ready for an interview re midwifery and your and Nics work helping women enjoy birth in this technological age - I think a fairly 'mainstream' approach would be all you will get on Bert - he is a nice interviewerbut conservative and wouldnt be out to create controversy -hiswomen producers are older first time mothers who were probably epiduralled then back to work quite early. The In Union video footage would be a lovely reinforcer for a piece highlighting NMAP and womens choices/the benefits of having your 'own' midwife - not necessarily at home -(Slide all that in sideways around an interview about the video if that is the only way to get it on) -To get on TV/ in the media - it needs to affect a majority or be sensational (ie ACA who only want sensation and edit/ alter the context of anything said during a pre-recorded interview). It also helps to have a website to refer women to for further info. Pinky
Re: [ozmidwifery] FW: [birthnews] Fw: Industrialized childbirth harms future generations
Title: Re: Industrialized childbirth harms future generations Sally, did you try the contact I gave you? Liz Mc - Original Message - From: Sally Westbury To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 5:01 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] FW: [birthnews] Fw: Industrialized childbirth harms future generations Have the organizer in each place been contacted with the idea of a side show screening?? I would be happy to follow this through in WA Yeah to Colac!! And Im sad that I wont be at Wolfgangs Beltane this year. Sally Westbury -Original Message-From: elizabeth mcalpine [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, 30 October 2002 9:19 AMTo: ozmidwiferyCc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [birthnews] Fw: Industrialized childbirth harms future generations Dear Listers, To give us a wee boost. Liz Mc Hi ElizabethI would like to see the film first. I am not going to screen it with the full program of Wild Spaces as it is not legitimately part of the Festival. However, at the Beltane Festival we are screening selections from WS and I could possibly screen it there with the announcement that it is not part of WS.I am very much concerned about industrialized birthing as an ex-nurse and having being involved in supporting several homebirths including 2 of my nieces.I would like to screen independent films on social and environmental issues, and am developing the idea of a travelling media circus, so it is quite possible I could help with this.What format is the program on (i.e. DVD, VHS, miniDV0). You could post it to me C/- Colac ACE. PO Box 382, Colac, Vic, 3250.I'll forward you info about the Beltane Festival in a separate email.RegardsDavidon 30/10/02 8:18 AM, elizabeth mcalpine at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear David,Thank you. Should I just post the video to you at ACE, Colac, for copying to your computer? I live in Melbourne - do you ever visit?? I can come to Colac if you need to discuss the film beforehand.The film is not my work. It is the copyright of Vicki Chan Nic Edmonstone, Queensland. However, I have been given permission to distribute it as I see fit in pursuit of humanizing childbirth. It is a matter of urgency to disseminate this short film, which needs no words, to resonate in human, particularly women's consciousness, to explain its message. The film, "In Union" is about humanizing childbirth incontrast to industrialized childbirth which has severe implications for civilization such as aggression and other dysfunctions, and total disregard for nature's laws.Similarly, (from Odent, 2002), this industrialized birth is familiar in animal husbandry, and catastrophic births among endangered species in zoos is due to the same ignorance (or rejection??) of mammalian birth physiology. The corollary with industrialized farming with its degradation of the planet, manipulative techniques and recent disasters such as mad cow and foot and mouth disease, antibiotic resistance, exogenous oestrogens and its effects, alerts one to the possibilities of impending disaster in industrialized childbirth.sincerely,Elizabeth
Re: [ozmidwifery] Change is a foot in NSW!
Denise, another piece of good news this morning. thanks. Liz Mc - Original Message - From: Denise Hynd To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 9:02 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Change is a foot in NSW! Dear Midwifery Supporters NMAP is next ! NMAP is more than a possibility! That is Community Midwifery Programs all over the country!! If you are not aware the NSW Health Minister has put a halt to the Greater Metropolitan Taskforce's rationalisation of maternity hospitals in NSW and that is due to the backlash of consumers!!! Regardlessor despitethe support of many doctors and health bureaucrats !! So politicians and some doctors and bureaucrats will listen and more importantly the politicians will act according to the level of noise made!! So every one if you have not 1) go see your state and federal politicians and demand they fund Community Midwifery programs as proposed in NMAP (www.matenitycoalition.org.au) 2) Join Maternity Coalition For sadly it seemspoliticians will not act according to need or evidence without it being demand loudly !! Denise Hynd
Re: [ozmidwifery] AXA insurance drops cover for caesars
Yes Denise. and if AXA were made aware of the costly, interventionist practices so commonplace in private hospitals, perhaps they wouldn't cover normal, physiological births either!! Liz Mc - Original Message - From: Denise Hynd [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 9:53 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] AXA insurance drops cover for caesars Dear Andrea Your news hasmade my day Now we need to get rid of FTP as amedical indication!! This turn in costings can also be used in pushing the Denise Hynd - Original Message - From: Andrea Robertson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 5:10 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] AXA insurance drops cover for caesars Hi Listers, I have just heard a very exciting report on the BBC news tonight. This may be helpful for putting pressure on private insurance companies in OZ what do you think we can do? I've already written about it on my Diary - http://www.birthinternational.com/diary/archives/68.html Please read about it there as it saves me having to write it all out again Look forward to your responses. Andrea - Andrea Robertson Birth International * ACE Graphics * Associates in Childbirth Education e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.birthinternational.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Fw: [ozmidwifery] Obstetric Perception - Your thoughts?
- Original Message - From: Johnston [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Dawn Worgan' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002 3:37 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Obstetric Perception - Your thoughts? Dear Dawn I'm not able to reply to the ozmid list, as I am not registered. However I saw your response, and am glad you have spoken in favour of midwife continuity of care. Please feel free to forward this to the list - if you wish. I am not surprised at the direction this discussion has taken, but I am very disappointed. In my experience many of those who simply couldn't possibly work on call for just a few women a month have never tried it, yet they are willing to speak out against it. Even when 4 babies are born in a week, the midwife can only be in one place at one time, and has to have arrangements to deal with such times. There is a lot of discretionary time in which the midwife has control over what she does, and is able to read and write and counsel and all those other things we do. Why is it that women do better with a known midwife? Surely that should carry some weight for a professional in deciding how she/he should manage time. Another point in this discussion that noone seems to have picked up is the subtle put-down of midwives by the doctor who supports midwifery models of care, particularly those that offer integrated choice so that midwives and obstetricians. That's just using language - integrated choice - to maintain the status quo of medical control. This is the argument that many obstetricians have been dishing up for years. Collaboration is another way of saying the same thing. What other specialist doctor offers an integrated choice - like so that the school teacher and the psychiatrist can work together at the primary teaching level in case the kids develop psychiatric illness. I'm not anti-doctor. When an obstetrician is needed I want someone who is clear thinking, objective, and highly skilled. I want her/him to look with fresh eyes at the whole woman-child, and give specialist advice and care. I do NOT want an obstetrician to supervise the practise of midwifery. I hope that when NMAP is implemented there will be enough midwives who are willing to give it a go. (I declare my interest here, as one of the contributing authors) Midwives who hold strongly to a hospital/nursing identity may in the future need to prove that they have the right to use the title 'midwife'. We in Australia can't afford to ignore contemporary midwifery competence in the global scene, especially if we care about the health and wellbeing of those in our care. As you know the reality for most midwives is that even if they would be willing to work as primary carer for a known group of women our system prevents them. I have had my own practice for the past decade, and I have loved my work. I don't always have another midwife booked to attend the birth with me, and I take up to 4 births per month. I now have had to quit, due to the insurance crisis. That's my thoughts for now, Joy Johnston -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery;acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Dawn Worgan Sent: Friday, 1 November 2002 10:22 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Obstetric Perception - Your thoughts? Debby M wrote: I have recently been corresponding with a friend of mine who is an obstetrician. He supports midwifery models of care, particularly those that offer integrated choice so that midwives and obstetricians can work together. He did state to me however that he believes one of the great obstacles to such models is the reluctance of most midwives to work other than an 8 hour shift, and to possibly have to do away with family time and holidays and to be called out at odd hours to attend births. I am sure there are probably some out there that do like the straight forwardness of shifts however I would be interested to hear the opinion of you ladies (and gentlemen) about your experience of the dedication of midwives when they are expected to provide ongoing antenatal, birth and postnatal support - outside the normal 8 hour shift, as my gut feeling is that the majority of midwives would love the opportunity to be able to fully use their skills in the support and care of pregnant and birthing women without unnecessary guidance or interferrence. Debby Protect your PC - Click here http://g.msn.com/8HMREN/2024 for McAfee.com VirusScan Online -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit to subscribe or unsubscribe. I work in a caseload model of care which means on call plus all the things you mentioned, and personally I love it (most of the time) but when we are looking for other midwives to replace us for long service
Fw: [ozmidwifery] Midwives to discuss maternity crisis
Title: Message Marie, thanks and when is the conference? Liz Mc - Original Message - From: Marie Heath To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 4:25 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Midwives to discuss maternity crisis Liz The conference at Byron Bay is the annual NSW Midwives Association Conference - given that NMAP was not included in the papers I am uncertain as to the amount of discussion about the midwifery / insurance crisis or options that willoccur - only time will tell Cheers Marie Heath -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of elizabeth mcalpineSent: Saturday, 2 November 2002 3:49 PMTo: ozmidwifery; [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [ozmidwifery] Midwives to discuss maternity crisis Re: Robyn's post. I didn't know about this conference in Byron Bay. Who does?? http://news.ninemsn.com.au/National/story 41759.asp thanks, Liz Mc
Re: [ozmidwifery] midwives can make a difference
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] midwives can make a difference right on Justine!! - Original Message - From: Justine Caines To: OzMid List Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 12:22 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] midwives can make a difference Thanks for the info Sally, but wheres NMAP, Id say thats women working with midwives, enough talk we need ACTION!!!In solidarityJustine Dear List,Just wanted to let you know of a seminar at Monash Medical Centre on 4/12/02. Presented by Southern Health and Deakin University it is called Midwives Can Make a Difference.Speakers include Nicky Leap whose keynote address is "how can midwifery practice flourish in a medical environment?"Mary Anne Biro "An appeal to midwives"Hilda Bastian "Midwives working with women to make a difference"Plus Elizabeth Bethune, Diane Phillips,Bobbie Carroll, Nicole Youl,Vanessa Owen and Michael Wilson.It starts at 8.30 for registration, is being held in the main lecture theatre at Monash and costs $120 before 4/11, $150 after and $60 for students (stating student number.Registrations close 28/11.Registration and payment to:Seminar RegistrationWomen's and Children's Programme OfficeMonash Medical CentreLocked Bag 29Clayton South 3168cheques/money orders to Southern HealthFor further info contact:Women's and Children's Programme9594 2547[EMAIL PROTECTED]Kerry Chouzadjian9594 6962[EMAIL PROTECTED]See you thereSally
[ozmidwifery] media
- Original Message - From: Power, Emma To: 'elizabeth mcalpine' Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002 11:37 AM Subject: RE: Hi there Liz .. Thanks for your email ... just wondering is there any particular conference or anything coming up in Brisbane that I should notify our Queensland office about?? It would be good if there is some sort of a "hook" for them to follow the story through. Regards, Emma. -Original Message-From: elizabeth mcalpine [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, 29 October 2002 0:02To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Dear Emma, First, let me tell you how happy I am for you!! Second, a big hello to Monica who will birth her baby soon, and thank herforthe contact with you and the media. The issue here is about humanizing birth and is not unique to Australia. There is a growing awareness, in the developed world in particular, that medicalized childbirth is dehumanizing to women, damaging to future generations, through drugged and traumatic birth, and harmful to the environment by way of disrespect and disregard for nature and its laws. Maternity Care Services are in crisis in Australia, and throughout the developed world. Approximately 80% of women can birth physiologically, and the World Health Organization (1985), and I quote, recommends "that midwives are the most cost effective and appropriate primary care givers for all childbearing women in all instances and in all settings, and home is the most appropriate birth setting. There should be community controlled, out of hospital birth centers for women seeking an alternative to the home setting. Obstetricians should not be responsible for primary care in childbirth." As I see it, the issue is not about midwives. It is about women and future generations. Women have rights; yet, in the current medicalization of childbirth their rightshave beensubjugated. The unborn child also hasrights; the right to a gentle, non-traumatic birth and peace to be with its mother, undisturbed. Numerous investigations of childbirth practices in Australia, the latest being the senate inquiry, 'Rocking the Cradle" in 1999 to which the government objected, and follow up recommendations from the National Health Medical Research Council, have been ignored by government.Women have been pushing for the right to humanized birth since about 1940.The medical hegemony is so dominant and so powerful that change seems almost impossible. Those who care will not give up.It is important how a baby enters the world. It is important how a woman births her baby. The birthprocess is so potent, and women never forget. Like industrialized farming, industrialized childbirth has serious implications for the health and psychological welfare of future generations, nature and the environment. Enough.About the video; its 6 minutes long, with musicandlyrics especially written. The midwife is Vicki Chan: [EMAIL PROTECTED]. She was a homebirth midwife for 14 years and recently had to give up because of the professional indemnity insurance issue.She is a spiritual soul with four children of her own. Nic Edmonstone, themulti-media expert, [EMAIL PROTECTED]inherently knew how to birth her two babies without medical interference. Specialist medical intervention is an essential component of maternity care services; their training as surgeons and obstetricians is about five years and that's where there their expertise and training should lie; specialist, consultative services available only on demand. Vicki's number is 0754948554. Emma, I'm 53 years old; and was indoctrinated to the medical model of health care at just over 17 years of age. That's a long time. I've been a midwife since 1975; and it has taken a long time to unlearn what I was taught. Like others of my ilk, I want to change maternity care services from medicalization to encompass the spiritual and holistic side of childbirth. I'm fed up with the protocols, the standardization whichhave no benefit except to the commercial interests of pharmaceutical and technological companies.I'm fed up with women being abased.I'm fed up with the interventions. And yes, I do not like hospitals for birthing women. Hospitals are for the sick and injured. Not for healthy women undergoing a physiological process, separated from their family and friends when they need support, comfort and rest. As someone said, 'pizzas are delivered, babies are birthed.' Some websites for you to peruse:- www.maternitycoalition.org.au www.gentlebirth.org www.birthpsychology.com www.naturalchildbirth.org www.maternitywise.org www.mercola.com www.midwiferytoday.com www.birthworks.com www.acegraphics.com.au love, Liz Mc ## Important Notice: This email is for the named recipient only. Its contents
[ozmidwifery] Fw: your film
Sally Westbury, This is from the national co-ordinator of 'Wild spaces' film festival. I didn't think about asking for it as a side show but even David Rose told me he couldn/t add to the program. In Fremantle, Phoebe Coyne is the contact. 0408098857 [EMAIL PROTECTED] love Liz Mc - Original Message - From: Sal of Wild Spaces [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: elizabeth mcalpine [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 6:11 PM Subject: Re: your film Hi Elizabeth, my name is Sal, which is not short for Sally. Please know, again, that adding five minutes to the festival is not possible. It is not my reponsibility to disseminate any issue, no matter how important it is. I repete, the program is closed for this year and if you wish to screen it in Wild Spaces than you'll need to wait for it to be considered in next year's festival. Sal. -- On Wed, 30 Oct 2002 10:53:55 elizabeth mcalpine wrote: Dear Sally, My disappointment was great, because when you said you'd be there at 8p.m., I thought I had an appointment with you. If I had known about 'Wild Spaces and this festival, I would have applied to have this film included. It was only recently that I obtained the flyer, thus my request for 'late entry'. It is a matter of urgency to disseminate this short film, which needs no words, to resonate in human, particularly women's consciousness, to explain its message. The film, In Union is about humanizing childbirth in contrast to industrialized childbirth which has severe implications for civilization such as aggression and other dysfunctions, and total disregard for nature's laws. Similarly, this industrialized childbirth is familiar in animal husbandry, and catastrophic births among endangered species in zoos is due to the same ignorance (or rejection??) of mammalian birth physiology. The corollary with industrialized farming with its degradation of the planet, manipulative techniques and recent disasters such as mad cow and foot and mouth disease, antibiotic resistance, exogenous oestrogens and its effects, alerts one to the possibilities of impending disaster in industrialized childbirth. An additional 5 minutes to the program is about 100 breaths - not much at all. Your assistant, whose name I forget (sorry) copied the video to computer. Did he tell you? Did you see it?? Sally, I implore you to view the film and reconsider. Many thanks, Elizabeth McAlpine Subject: your film Hi Elizabeth, As I was leaving to come to you last night my landlords arrived at my house and I felt obliged to talk with them. As we had not made a definete time I did not feel the pressure that you would be here at 8pm and felt that you would leave the tape and an explanation if you did not wish to wait for me. As I already explained to you yesterday when you rang, the festival program is complete and if were to slot in an extra film it would need to be about one minute long, there is not the room for any longer films. If you would like your film to be considered for next year's festival you are more than welcome to forward on your film to next year's coordinators, the details of which will be on the web-site from the start of next year. Again my apologies that I could not meet up with you yesterday. Sal Lintott, Wild Spaces National Coordinator. -- On Mon, 28 Oct 2002 23:20:24 elizabeth mcalpine wrote: - Original Message - From: elizabeth mcalpine To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; ozmidwifery Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 9:47 PM Dear Fellow Social Justice Seekers, The appointment I had with a Sal Lintott in Melbourne, was to discuss the issue of women's choice in childbirth, of which they have none. It is also an increasing global issue - particularly in developed countries, and recommended by the World Health Organization in 1985 as being of paramount importance. Reference can be given if necessary. Industrialized childbirth harms future generations, and leads to lack of respect for nature and the environment. It is so important. Sal did not turn up, and I left 50 minutes later, disappointed and heartbroken. Is anyone at the other venues interested in a 6 minute segment of HUMANIZED BIRTH which needs no words to say what it is about except for future generations rights, as well as womens rights.. ie. the right to non violent birth.It can be arranged that women will attend post screening to explain the situation to interested parties. sincerely, Elizabeth McAlpine __ Outgrown your current e-mail service? Get 25MB Storage, POP3 Access, Advanced Spam protection with LYCOS MAIL PLUS. http://login.mail.lycos.com/brandPage.shtml?pageId
[ozmidwifery] Fw:
Dear Listers, Just in case you don't know or have forgotten a previous circulation. "The Art of Birthing"; an exhibition for artists to celebrate creation in its purest form. www.artofbirthing.com.au to raise money for the Maternity Coalition with proceeds shared equally between the artist and MC. www.maternitycoalition.org.au Jan Harrod 03 95377465 Becc Cossartwalsh 0397581608 Just in case you didn't know. Liz Mc
[no subject]
Listers, Interesting website and magazine - "made" for humanized childbirth supporters. www.byronchild.com love Liz Mc
Re: [ozmidwifery] original music for ads
correct Jen Nic Vicki have done several videos. I think the one that Liz (specifically) has been talking about is called In Union the song that accompanies it, also called In Union, is original (written by Vicki her brother?). Please correct me if I'm wrong. Jen - Original Message - From: Aviva Sheb'a [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 10:40 am Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] educating the community If you use other people's music, you have to have the rights to use it. Easier and cheaper to write our own??? It could be recorded as the ad/segment is made. Aviva -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] Fw: Industrialized childbirth harms future generations
Title: Re: Industrialized childbirth harms future generations Dear Listers, To give us a wee boost. Liz Mc Hi ElizabethI would like to see the film first. I am not going to screen it with the full program of Wild Spaces as it is not legitimately part of the Festival. However, at the Beltane Festival we are screening selections from WS and I could possibly screen it there with the announcement that it is not part of WS.I am very much concerned about industrialized birthing as an ex-nurse and having being involved in supporting several homebirths including 2 of my nieces.I would like to screen independent films on social and environmental issues, and am developing the idea of a travelling media circus, so it is quite possible I could help with this.What format is the program on (i.e. DVD, VHS, miniDV0). You could post it to me C/- Colac ACE. PO Box 382, Colac, Vic, 3250.I'll forward you info about the Beltane Festival in a separate email.RegardsDavidon 30/10/02 8:18 AM, elizabeth mcalpine at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear David,Thank you. Should I just post the video to you at ACE, Colac, for copying to your computer? I live in Melbourne - do you ever visit?? I can come to Colac if you need to discuss the film beforehand.The film is not my work. It is the copyright of Vicki Chan Nic Edmonstone, Queensland. However, I have been given permission to distribute it as I see fit in pursuit of humanizing childbirth. It is a matter of urgency to disseminate this short film, which needs no words, to resonate in human, particularly women's consciousness, to explain its message. The film, "In Union" is about humanizing childbirth incontrast to industrialized childbirth which has severe implications for civilization such as aggression and other dysfunctions, and total disregard for nature's laws.Similarly, (from Odent, 2002), this industrialized birth is familiar in animal husbandry, and catastrophic births among endangered species in zoos is due to the same ignorance (or rejection??) of mammalian birth physiology. The corollary with industrialized farming with its degradation of the planet, manipulative techniques and recent disasters such as mad cow and foot and mouth disease, antibiotic resistance, exogenous oestrogens and its effects, alerts one to the possibilities of impending disaster in industrialized childbirth.sincerely,Elizabeth
Re: [ozmidwifery] Love of midwifery
Title: Love of midwifery I understand completely. I came home crying tonight because some film festival organizer wouldn't come to see Nic Vicki's video about humanized birth, which should be diseminated around Australia. (working on that!) And work?? Working on that. Yep.Beating one's head against a brick wall is tough. But when the going gets tough.the tough get going. Keep your spirits up. Humanized birth is a human right!!! Liz Mc - Original Message - From: Smith, Anne To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 8:34 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Love of midwifery Dear list, I am a midwife who is very passionate and very for woman centred care. I love being a midwife and can not imagine not being a midwife, but l have become so dissolusioned with the system that it is breaking my heart. I have been a midwife for 5 years and feel that the system (especially where l work in a large country city) which is medical based has not changed. It has actually become worse. Despite being a strong advocate for evidence based practice and presenting this evidence to doctors and management, l have been walked all over, some midwives have been yelled at, 'put in their places' by RESIDENTS and we have basically have our hands tied. The amount of autonomy we have is decreasing, which makes me feel sometimes that all the hospital wants are obstetric nurses. They do not want midwives because they cause too much trouble. Who cares about the women? Management want to make the doctors happy and stuff the midwives. One example, i am really against the use of CTG's in normal pregnancy and labour. Because of one bad outcome, management wants to introduce admission CTGs for all women who present in labour. I produced for them so much evidence based material which actually states that this is not a good idea, but they introduced it anyway. I dont know why l try because nothing worse. I dont know what to do and all my collegues feel like this as well. We need different models of care, we need to take over the care of women in normal pregnancy and birth. I fully endorse NMAP but will it have an effect in my workplace. Will it really change the obnoxious doctors we work with and management who only care about beds and money? Midwives have tried to get a midwives clinic in this town for 11 years, but has been blocked by the doctors (one in particular). We have no free antenatal care except for one midwife who works with aboriginal women (who we also refer white women to). If women only knew what was going on and they care they get from their doctors is less than substandard. I hate feeling like this. Women are being ripped off, assulted, and their rights violated, and there is only so much l can do. I do the best l can for these women but l feel that it is no where near enough. It makes me feel like l have a hollow pit in my stomach thinking of coming to work. But l love midwifery, and l know that what ever happens, l need to go on... sorry, but l really needed to get this off my chest. MIdwife trying to make a difference Fiona Dunmore NOTICE: CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATIONThis e-mail message and any accompanying files may containinformation that is confidential and subject to privilege. If youare not the intended recipient, and have received the e-mailin error, you are notified that any use, dissemination,distribution, forwarding, printing or copying of the message and any attached files is strictly prohibited. If you havereceived this e-mail message in error please immediately advise the sender by return e-mail, or telephone, listed below.You must destroy the original transmission and its contents. Any views expressed within this communication are those ofthe individual sender, except where the sender specificallystates them to be the views of Ramsay Health Care. This communication should not be copied or disseminated without permission."Mildura Base Hospital" a member of Ramsay Health Care Telephone: 61 3 5022 Facsimile: 61 3 5022 3234
Re: [ozmidwifery] educating the community
Barb, Let's go. Who are the contacts?? Liz Mc - Original Message - From: barbara glare chris bright [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 9:31 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] educating the community Hi, I just did the crash course on TV advertising, helping to organise The Boss ads for ABA. Having no money to work with, we had to do the old loaves and fishes trick and get in happening at a minimal cost. I, too think Nic and Vicki's In union would make a terrific basis for an ad. Makes me cry every time. I can help with costs and contacts. Love, Barb -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[no subject]
Dear Fellow Social Justice Seekers, The appointment I had with a Sal Lintott in Melbourne, was to discuss the issue of women's choice in childbirth, of which they have none.It is also an increasing global issue - particularly in developed countries, and recommended by the WorldHealth Organizationin 1985 as being of paramount importance. Reference can be given if necessary. Industrialized childbirth harms future generations, and leads to lack of respect for nature and the environment. It is so important. Sal did not turn up, and I left 50 minutes later, disappointed and heartbroken. Is anyone at the other venues interested in a 6 minute segment of HUMANIZED BIRTH which needs no words to say what it is about except for future generations rights, as well as womens rights.. ie. the right to non violent birth. It can be arranged that women will attend post screening to explain the situation to interested parties. sincerely, Elizabeth McAlpine
[ozmidwifery] wild spaces: Australia's only environmental social justice film festival
Dear Sir?Madam, It was just the other day I saw your advert re "Wild Spaces,Australia's only environmental social justice film festival." I called Sal Lintott, to meet tonight 8 p.m. 28/10/02, in Brunswick East, Melbourne, hoping for alate entry tothe program.I left after 50 minutes, disappointed and heartbroken. The 6 minute video on humanized birth is a visual delight; thought provoking, powerful and emotive. The push forhumanization of birth is not limited to Australia; every country in the world is fighting for this basic human right. The right for women to birth as they wish; and the right of the unborn to a gentle, non-violent birth. Industrialized childbirth, like industrialized farming, leads toa lack of respect for nature and the environment. Given the importance of this contemporary issue, I request your consideration of this video for inclusion in your program, given that it is of significant social justice and environmental concern. sincerely, Elizabeth McAlpine
Re: [ozmidwifery] Love of midwifery
Title: Love of midwifery What does gonging mean?? I'm Scottish. lvoe Liz Mc - Original Message - From: Sally Westbury To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 10:28 PM Subject: FW: [ozmidwifery] Love of midwifery Was that gonging??? -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of elizabeth mcalpineSent: Monday, 28 October 2002 6:22 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Love of midwifery I understand completely. I came home crying tonight because some film festival organizer wouldn't come to see Nic Vicki's video about humanized birth, which should be diseminated around Australia. (working on that!) And work?? Working on that. Yep.Beating one's head against a brick wall is tough. But when the going gets tough.the tough get going. Keep your spirits up. Humanized birth is a human right!!! Liz Mc - Original Message - From: Smith, Anne To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 8:34 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Love of midwifery Dear list, I am a midwife who is very passionate and very for woman centred care. I love being a midwife and can not imagine not being a midwife, but l have become so dissolusioned with the system that it is breaking my heart. I have been a midwife for 5 years and feel that the system (especially where l work in a large country city) which is medical based has not changed. It has actually become worse. Despite being a strong advocate for evidence based practice and presenting this evidence to doctors and management, l have been walked all over, some midwives have been yelled at, 'put in their places' by RESIDENTS and we have basically have our hands tied. The amount of autonomy we have is decreasing, which makes me feel sometimes that all the hospital wants are obstetric nurses. They do not want midwives because they cause too much trouble. Who cares about the women? Management want to make the doctors happy and stuff the midwives. One example, i am really against the use of CTG's in normal pregnancy and labour. Because of one bad outcome, management wants to introduce admission CTGs for all women who present in labour. I produced for them so much evidence based material which actually states that this is not a good idea, but they introduced it anyway. I dont know why l try because nothing worse. I dont know what to do and all my collegues feel like this as well. We need different models of care, we need to take over the care of women in normal pregnancy and birth. I fully endorse NMAP but will it have an effect in my workplace. Will it really change the obnoxious doctors we work with and management who only care about beds and money? Midwives have tried to get a midwives clinic in this town for 11 years, but has been blocked by the doctors (one in particular). We have no free antenatal care except for one midwife who works with aboriginal women (who we also refer white women to). If women only knew what was going on and they care they get from their doctors is less than substandard. I hate feeling like this. Women are being ripped off, assulted, and their rights violated, and there is only so much l can do. I do the best l can for these women but l feel that it is no where near enough. It makes me feel like l have a hollow pit in my stomach thinking of coming to work. But l love midwifery, and l know that what ever happens, l need to go on... sorry, but l really needed to get this off my chest. MIdwife trying to make a difference Fiona Dunmore NOTICE: CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATIONThis e-mail message and any accompanying files may containinformation that is confidential and subject to privilege. If youare not the intended recipient, and have received the e-mailin error, you are notified that any use, dissemination,distribution, forwarding, printing or copying of the message and any attached files is strictly prohibited. If you havereceived this e-mail message in error please immediately advise the sender by return e-mail, or telephone, listed below.You must destroy the original transmission and its contents. Any views expressed within this communication are those ofthe individual sender, except where the sender specificallystates them to be the views of Ramsay Health Care. This communication should not be copied or disseminated without
Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: ?Humanised Birth?video?
Denise, Sal Lintott was the contact person for the social justice film festival. The video is Vicki Chan Nic Edmonstone's work. Liz Mc Dear Elizabeth Who is Sal Lintott and what is this 6 minute segment of HUMANIZED BIRTH which needs no words ??Denise Hynd - Original Message - From: elizabeth mcalpine To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; ozmidwifery Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 9:47 PM Dear Fellow Social Justice Seekers, The appointment I had with a Sal Lintott in Melbourne, was to discuss the issue of women's choice in childbirth, of which they have none.It is also an increasing global issue - particularly in developed countries, and recommended by the WorldHealth Organizationin 1985 as being of paramount importance. Reference can be given if necessary. Industrialized childbirth harms future generations, and leads to lack of respect for nature and the environment. It is so important. Sal did not turn up, and I left 50 minutes later, disappointed and heartbroken. Is anyone at the other venues interested in a 6 minute segment of HUMANIZED BIRTH which needs no words to say what it is about except for future generations rights, as well as womens rights.. ie. the right to non violent birth. It can be arranged that women will attend post screening to explain the situation to interested parties. sincerely, Elizabeth McAlpine
Re: [ozmidwifery] PUSH for BIRTH REFORM
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] PUSH for BIRTH REFORM thank you Jan. I have so much buzzing around in my head at the minute for NMAP. I just feel 'something is happening' Had a great afternoon at the Melbourne Expo for woman andchild distributing the flyers.Much interst. Andrea was there doing a great job and another lady, not a midwife, whose name I forget. GreatLiz Mc
[ozmidwifery] Re: educating the community on humanized birth
Yep. Its in everyone's mind at the same time.wow! Have you heard of Australia's only environmental social justice film festival coming up in November screening at Ballarat, Canberra, Colac, Denmark, Fremantle, Hobart, Katoomba, Lismore, Melbourne, Mildura, Sydney and Townsville. I now have Vicki's permission for the inclusion of their film In Union in this festival (please let it be possible at this late date) and anywhere and everywhere else possible. I've been showing the film to my fellow students, its now 'on loan' to some young mothers and mothers to be...RWH should be ordering copies soon. Must go to the other hospitals, neighbourhood houses other places when I finish my assignments. love to all Liz Mc Hi everyone, Nic's videos have my vote as well. When I first saw the images of the first one she did, I thought that we needed the general public to see these, and then they'd understand what we're trying to say. A picture tells a thousand words. Have a great day Karen -Original Message- From: Jennifer Semple [mailto:jennifer.semple1;students.vu.edu.au] Sent: Sunday, 27 October 2002 7:59 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] educating the community I think those CPA ads are really effective too. if you have a really good ad that people actually like to see, I think one ad is just as effective as 3 different ones. An ad for midwifery is a GREAT idea... ofcourse I have NO IDEA how much ad space/time costs... but EVERYONE loves to look at babies. Nic Edmonstone's videos are so powerful... radiating beauty, emotion, love... she would be able to get to the heart of it in 10 seconds or however much time an ads is. Anyway, just my two cents. Cheers, Jen - Original Message - From: Jan Robinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sunday, October 27, 2002 7:35 am Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] educating the community Hi list I couldn't agree with Robyn and Julie more about TV coverage but participation in a regular show would take yet another one of us away from our lifelong passion of childbirth. We would needs lottsa moola to pay for a well known personality to front up for us on a weekly basis. We could get together and make a TV advert to be shown on prime time when most of the younger thinking women take time out to watch the news or follow-on shows. This is how the CPAs did so well in establishing themselves in the Australian community. Also remember the series of ads the GPs put on a few years ago in response to the alternative practitionerstaking away much of their business? They were very effective.Another possibility to target is the ABC late affternoon shows put on to educate kids. We definitely need a follow on from NMAP while the public still remember it. Perhaps we could fundraise through the College, ASIM and NACE to produce two or three smash-hit ads that would create huge interest in seeking out one-to-one midwifery care. Another alternative is to convince some budding film makers (anyone got one amongst their clients?) to put some time and energy into making such an AD at reduced rates. It literally costs thousands of $$$ to produce a halfminute ad for TV. Once we own the ad. we could make copies and show them at every childbirtheducation class across the country ... Especially Choices for Childbirth evenings that are being run by MC supporters. Jan On 23/10/02 12:52 PM, Robyn Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maybe we should develop a dossier with all the current facts and research extracts that we all carry when spreading the word A NMAP DOSSIER that means we are all spreading the same world with the latest facts. If we all contribute someone like me or others maybe able to compile it and update it. It could go to anyone on the Planet it would united and factual the message strong and concise. In agreeance with a National TV Programme that teaches practical information weekly would be good. Something to replace the Soapies. I go into many homes every week and the families are almost always watching the soapies often they don't turn it off during our 1 to 2 hour consultation. At times I have to ask for the volume to be turned down. If only we had a National dynamic programme for FAmilies, students, on pregnancy, birth breastfeeding and lot's more!! How many people might we reach? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery;acegraphics.com.au]On Behalf Of Julie Clarke Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 6:03 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [ozmidwifery] educating the community Hi all Denise's suggestion to use TV as an effective medium for educating the public is certainly something I agree with, and I hope that somewhere someone is working on a script. In the meantime in my everyday life I talk to anyone and everyone about normal childbirth and Australia's
Re: [ozmidwifery] ultrasound
thanks Andrea---liz-- Original Message - From: Andrea Quanchi To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 2:36 PMSubject: Re: ultrasound
Re: [ozmidwifery] ultrasound
Thanks Leanne - and to anyone else who may respond about my query on ultrasound. I have the website - Original Message - From: leanne wynne [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 3:20 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] ultrasound -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] PUSH for BIRTH REFORM
Title: PUSHfor BIRTH PUSH for BIRTH REFORM!! support the NATIONAL MATERNITY ACTION PLAN *Every woman has the right to choose her birth setting *Every woman has the right to choose a midwife as her lead maternity carer midwifery care:- *Is cost effective safe *Enhances the birth experience *Reduces the need for caesarean section, forceps episiotomy www.maternitycoalition.org.au
[ozmidwifery] PUSH for BIRTH REFORM
Title: PUSHfor BIRTH PUSH for BIRTH REFORM!! support the NATIONAL MATERNITY ACTION PLAN *Every woman has the right to choose her birth setting *Every woman has the right to choose a midwife as her lead maternity carer midwifery care:- *Is cost effective safe *Enhances the birth experience *Reduces the need for caesarean section, forceps episiotomy www.maternitycoalition.org.au
[ozmidwifery] PUSH for BIRTH REFORM
Title: PUSHfor BIRTH PUSH for BIRTH REFORM!! support the NATIONAL MATERNITY ACTION PLAN *Every woman has the right to choose her birth setting *Every woman has the right to choose a midwife as her lead maternity carer midwifery care:- *Is cost effective safe *Enhances the birth experience *Reduces the need for caesarean section, forceps episiotomy www.maternitycoalition.org.au
[no subject]
Dear Listers, herewith interim flyer, re NMAP - It was straight when I sent it - I think it can be adjusted Liz
[ozmidwifery] PUSH for BIRTH
Dear Listers, Liz McAlpine here. This is the NMAP interim flyer as attachment. It didnt work as direct mail. I have ispy therefore safe from viruses. love Liz PUSHfor BIRTH reform.doc Description: MS-Word document
Fw: [ozmidwifery] ultrasound
Hi Karen, and the link is www.mayo.edu/ultrasound/news/ Liz mc - Original Message - From: Kirsten Blacker To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2002 1:04 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] ultrasound I would LOVE to see this link, given that I am working there at the moment, and it feels like the intervention capital of the world Kirsten - Original Message - From: Andrea Quanchi To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2002 9:36 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] ultrasound it was from the Mayo clinic websiteAndrea QuanchiOn Friday, October 25, 2002, at 10:19 AM, elizabeth mcalpine wrote: Hello lister,Recently someone posted information on the effects of U/S on the baby. Something like 'a speeding train in a tunnel'. I had downloaded the article but have lost it.Can someone help??Liz
Re: [ozmidwifery] ultrasound
Kirsten, Tell me more Liz Mc I would LOVE to see this link, given that I am working there at the moment, and it feels like the intervention capital of the world Kirsten - Original Message - From: Andrea Quanchi To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2002 9:36 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] ultrasound it was from the Mayo clinic websiteAndrea QuanchiOn Friday, October 25, 2002, at 10:19 AM, elizabeth mcalpine wrote: Hello lister,Recently someone posted information on the effects of U/S on the baby. Something like 'a speeding train in a tunnel'. I had downloaded the article but have lost it.Can someone help??Liz
[ozmidwifery] PUSH for BIRTH
Liz McAlpine again interim homemade flyer for NMAP - corrected version. I have ispy virus protector, so safe to open attachment. Love Liz PUSHfor BIRTH reform.doc Description: MS-Word document
[ozmidwifery] Fw:
Debbie, this didn't go through. Liz - Original Message - From: elizabeth mcalpine To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 7:41 AM Debbie, I spoke to Julie who would pass the details to Summer. Howard Gretton, Channel 7, 93440731 I outlined what Denise suggested - after firstly asking if he was interested - which he said he was. I was a bit disappointed that a male answered my call but still... I mentioned the word 'series' - so I hope to see a weekly episode of following women and their families through pregnancy, birth and beyond. Of course, whilst highlighting the role of the midwife!! I hope they take it on - I'm sure it would be much better than 'Neighbours' !! Good luck Liz
Re: [ozmidwifery] Living and dying
Title: Living and dying Dear Sue, I wanted to respond to say how sorry I am about the loss of your friend. I also feel that in other hands your friend may have been given more time - and that is your thinking, that if her mother was there it wouldn't have happened, especially as you related the same scenario with your brother and how technology was not 100% in his case. The anger and distress you feel right now will fade. You'll carry 'if only' and 'what if' throughout your life, but please don't let it eat you up. Her partner and brothers could only do what they felt they had to under guidance and the decision could not have been easy. Your friend will live on in her child, and there is a very special bond between you as her mother's friend, companion in birth, and welcomer to the earth. May peace come to you in its time. love, Liz - Original Message - From: Sue Cookson To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2002 7:40 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Living and dying Hi all,Want to share with you the extent of the 'trial' of being a homebirth attendant.Last week, one of the mothers whose births I attended in March was hit by a car and life support turned off at 5 days.I want to try to share with you the absolute grief I felt at such a callous and medical attitude to a mother's life.The decision to turn her off was made by her partner (of 12 months), and her two brothers.There are no parents, and there were no others who were mothers who were there to make the decision.She was my friend as well as one of my birthing mums. She was 41 and gave birth to her first (and only) baby in water at home on a lovely March morning. She was an animal activist, a birth activist, a strong, passionate woman who became my friend. We were building a 'wicked birth' website together.I read this and realise that you probably won't 'get' the gist of my pain and grief from my lack of ability to explain it. I helped this woman prepare for her birth, give birth, and then I helped through her tough post-partum period. Her baby is now 6 months old and is permanently without her mother. The medical told her family she was brain dead, had no future, the machines read nothing, it was irrefutable. I had gone through a similar scenario with my brother some years ago - only my mother in her mother's strength said 'no' to giving up on my brother. He woke up 3 months after his accident and his first words were ' get me out of here'. He now lives on his own and is as good as most of our population.I only wanted the same for the little baby girl. As much as we give to all the couples we help through birth, we can also give through death. I remember reading the article "midwives for the dying" some years ago, and now understand what it means.I fail to understand how clinical and disconnected and unbelieving in miracles this world can be ... I am proud to stand outside that box.Sue Cookson
Fw: [ozmidwifery] FW: [birthnews] Breastfeeding billboard
Denise, I've been thinking the same myself. Recently looking through lists who give grants for projects in health, womens development etc etc - government and Philanthropy Australia. Why couldn't the Maternity Coalition get a grant?? We have a terrific project don't we? President Barb?? Liz - Original Message - From: Denise Hynd [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 10:08 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] FW: [birthnews] Breastfeeding billboard How do we get a billboard for NMAP and some one to pay for it?? Denise - Original Message - From: Sally Westbury [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 4:22 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] FW: [birthnews] Breastfeeding billboard That billboard is right near where I used to live!! Sally -Original Message- From: barbara glare chris bright [mailto:zacdan;datafast.net.au] Sent: Monday, 21 October 2002 7:16 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [birthnews] Breastfeeding billboard Hi, If you're driving through Geelong, keep an eye out for the billboard on your left just past the North Geelong Railway station. If your not anticipating a drive to Geelong, check it out on www.breastfeeding.asn.au Love, Barb ABA calendar and poster orders to [EMAIL PROTECTED] BirthNews is sponsored by CAPERS Bookstore the Birth Issues Journal. www.capersbookstore.com.au To unsubscribe, [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] grants
Attention Maternity Coalition and listers looking for money to assist NMAP www.grantslink.gov.au/ www.philanthropy.org.au (view LINKS) For interest, see www.osw.dpmc.gov.au/index.html Conference: Australian Women Speak 2003 Canberra 30 March - 1st April. Themes:"Young Women Speak" and "Women and their Diversity" Any young women out there care to speak about NMAP and changes to childbirth practices? Liz
[ozmidwifery] Fw: grants
Dear Listers, Proposals: Vicki Chan Nic Edmonstone to be the educational arm of the Maternity Coalition. Vicki Nic to get to the below mentioned conference to raise the profile of the Maternity Coalition and NMAP. see www.osw.dpmc.gov.au/index.html Conference: Australian Women Speak 2003 Canberra 30 March - 1st April. Themes:"Young Women Speak" and "Women and their Diversity" And, as the money rolls in from all those philanthropists out there - to continue around Australia in maternity hospitals,midwifery schools, medical schools, women's groups, schools etc etc.until the positive change in attitude towards birth is effected. Liz
[ozmidwifery] CORRECTION: education
Dear Listers, Proposals: Vicki Chan Nic Edmonstone to be the educational arm of the Maternity Coalition in collaboration with a MC co-ordinator and other educators in various towns and cities in Australia. Vicki Nic - and others - to get to the below mentioned conference to raise the profile of the Maternity Coalition and NMAP. see www.osw.dpmc.gov.au/index.html Conference: Australian Women Speak 2003 Canberra 30 March - 1st April. Themes:"Young Women Speak" and "Women and their Diversity" And, as the money rolls in from all those philanthropists out there - to continue around Australia in maternity hospitals,midwifery schools, medical schools, women's groups, schools etc etc.until the positive change in attitude towards birth is effected. Liz
Re: [ozmidwifery] Rape by stealth (longish)
To add to the tale of woe.. Not ARM. Merely, a sims spec for a pap smear at about 22 weeks pregnant. "Just lie on your side", he said. In went the simswith a pull on my rear (towards my neck it seemed) I remember it still after 23 years. Oh hells bells!! IT MUST CHANGE!! Liz - Original Message - From: Aviva Sheb'a To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2002 1:37 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Rape by stealth (longish) Hi, Julie, Pity your husband didn't hit the git! (well put). Go get 'm. This needs to stop and it will only stop when women, men, midwives et al jump up and down about it. Boing, boing, boing (that's me, jumping up and down). Aviva - Original Message - From: Julie Garratt To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2002 12:07 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Rape by stealth (longish) OH MY GOD!!, This awful thing happened to me also I was in the QVH and the date was the 10/5/90 I had a hind leak so I was told that because of the risk of infection that I would have to be induced I was 4 weeks early!. A Curly haired GIT of a doctor came in and said that he had to rupture my waters properly to speed things up. "I was only telling this story at birth matters the other day!!!" IT WAS AGONY I thought at the time that this must be what Rape andtoucher is like. I remember that he had very big hands and that my husband who could see how much pain I was in wanted to hit him. I have never experienced PAIN like that in my life. Maybe I should find out what his name was, I suppose it would be in the hospital notes. What if it's the same Doctor? we should find out. This vile thing shouldn't ever be allowed to happen again. If you want to take it further I'm right beside you! Julie Garratt. - Original Message - From: Larry Megan Sent: Saturday, 19 October 2002 11:26 PM To: ozmidwifery Subject: [ozmidwifery] Rape by stealth (longish) Can I burrow some wisdom from the list?I have just visited my friend and her new baby in hospital. Her doctorsuggested she be induced a week early because her baby was looking likebeing a good 9lb plus?(her first was 9lb). She trusted his wisdom and wentahead, having gels late evening and the following morning, nothinghappening. At 1pm he broke her waters. This bit I am appaled at. He has verylarge hands, and the agony it caused her was awful, even to the point ofscreaming at him to stop. He didn't. Eventually labour started and late thatevening with the aid of an epidural she birthed a lovely little boy,weighing only 8lb5oz. Mum and baby doing well.I asked her if he commented on the weight , of course he hasn't and theydon't want to say anything. She was induced for no good reason. Shedescribed the ARM as what she imagines being raped would feel like, (I guessphysically and emotionally) this will also not be passed on to him.I feel that she was raped and there is nothing I can do about it. I can'tforce her to acknowledge what happened, her and hubby are relatively happyand she has a beautiful baby that neeeds her. It is safer for them to thinkof it as a medical procedure because if you acknowledge it as rape, who isgoing to help them deal with it all. How many women and men experience this?This doctor will never know how he made her feel and can continue topractice like this because the silence says it is OK. I am so frustrated andsad that she had to experience it at all.It reinforces my belief in NMAP and the need for women to have the very bestof care.thanks, I just needed to vent off, my husbands ears are tired,Megan.--This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
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Hello listers, Yesterday, I attended Vicki Chan Nic Edmonstone's 'Intuitive Workshop'. What a beautiful, emotive, empowering, enlightening and fun day. A day which - reinforced my commitment to change childbirth practices refueled my passion to stop the conditioning which the medical model propagates. But yup, I have to stop being like a bull in a china shop and follow Vicki and Nic's example ofa gentle opening of the mind towards deconditioning understanding. To end, with their words. "A better world.. Where birth is sacred.. Life is treasured.. Death is honoured.. Peace at Birth.. Peace on Earth" Thank you Vicki and Nic and all you beautiful women who shared the day with me. Much, much love. Liz
[ozmidwifery] book sharing, reinforcement of PUSH FOR BIRTH REFORM ( VERY LONG)
Dear List, I have to share this book - it will make you howl in anguish: it willreinforce your determination to change childbirth practices in this country through the NMAP. Midwives must fight for natural birth. Yes.. PUSH FOR BIRTH REFORM. So, to those of us who mayoccasionally lose heartand I quote. (written 1977, but still recognizable as occurring in our hospitals of today) "The newborn's total sensory system must be brought into play through physical stimulus, because only by stimulation of the body does the reticular formation receive the necessary stimulus to bring it into full play and begin to function fully as the coordinate of body senses and mind-brain activity. (The critical nature of activation of the reticular formation must be accomplished soon after birth for bonding: otherwise there will extreme and permanent dysfunction) So the infant goes into an extreme stress state shortly before birth. This stimulates ACTH, which then brings about the new proteins and brain-cell connections that prepare the body for dramatic, indeed drastic, physical changes, alerting the body and brain for the fast work to be done. The human mother is genetically programmed to nurture the newborn's body by a continual gentle massage and stimulation. ...the four great needs for bonding: holding, with a body molding of the infant to one's self; prolonged and steady eye contact; smiling; and soothing sounds. Breast-feeding, of course, furnishes all these at once, and body stimulus is what must be added to that vital body-moulding contact. ...the entire procedure of delivery gets seriously delayed and complicated out of all bounds in hospital delivery. Drugs, particularly anaesthetics, specifically slow up the synchronous movements by which the infant is expelled from the womb, and delivery gets extended to torturous lengths. Fear and anxiety build in the mother, and pain follows swift and sure. The pain calls for more medication, as does the anxiety. And what of the infant: his body has begun a massive outpouring of adrenal steroids preparatory to the great push and adaptation, but the movement does not come. His body continues its outpouring of hormones. Stress piles on stress; the expected natural cycle of stress-relaxation is not forthcoming. After hours of this, both mother and infant are exhausted. Then, there are all the medical interferences, the carelessness, and the callousness. Coupled with the conditioned reflex of fear are the operating amphitheater atmosphere, that deadly table, and being forced to lie down, which completely eliminates any last hope of muscular coordinationdrugs that incapacitate both mother and infant. Long before delivery, mother and infant have been kept at a climactic point of tension, able to achieve no resolution. the natural expulsion process is by now thoroughly fouled up, instumentation is used to "assist" the mother in expelling the baby. forceps and suction machines are casually used to claw or suck the infant out of the mother's body, by grabbing that fantastically fragile, all too sensitive, and utterly precious head. The vast majority of the time, such instrumentation is not necessary; and only in a rare emergency could an episiotomy by justified, even with all the complications caused by the medicine man's bag of tricks. The simple truth is that he likes to use his tricks; he likes the drama and impotance of his image, wielding all his mechanical toys, showing the incompetence of nature, and establishing his own superiority. The semi-drugged, overstressed, and exhausted infant is, of course, generally unable to get his breath.the many new, unused coordinates of muscles are confused and malfunctioning. His body is reacting only; all synchronous interactions have long since been destroyed. In addition to his prolonged body fear of oxygen deprivation, when he is finally sucked or clawed out of the mother, his entry is into a noisy, brilliantly lit arena.suction devices are rammed into the mouth and nose.(and) at the critical oxygen-short period, the umbilical cord has been cut. He is cleaned up from the bloodplaced on cold, hard scales like any other piece of meat in a factory..wrapped up to protect him from those demon drafts... No book can ever express the full ramification of this crime against nature. (and) All future learning is affected". Pearce, Joseph Chilton, 1977, "Magical Child", Dutton Publishing, New York
Re: [ozmidwifery] Almost c/s - horrid shift (VERY LONG!)
Dear Robin, In modern times, the 1930s was a push for birth reform through women's negative view of hospital birth.This was also the time of midwifery regulation and outlawing and the increasing power of obstetrics. The control of midwifery is very long standing, from about the 15th century!! Obstetrics wasn't taught until mid 1800s in Britain US. Midwives training in early 1900s. Questions of professional pecking orders, gender rivalry, and medicalization have continued to dog childbirth throughout the twentieth century. Porter, R., 1997, The Greatest Benefit to Mankind, Norton Company, New York. Liz I have found that midwifery in hospitals has gone backwards. Oh. how true. Sadly. During one of my classes at uni this semester one the lecturers wanted us Master's students to outline ways in which nursing has gone forward in the past decade. I almost snorted into my coffee, for I am of the firm belief that midwifery has not gone forward. It's gone backwards. How many other nursing factions can say this? I guess the good in this is that our consciousness's ( ?sp) have gone forward, to the point where midwives are so determined to make changes. My depth of experience only extends to 15 years or so, but would it be right to think that the efforts to liberate midwives from their medical shackles is a relatively new concept? Or was it like this back in the 70's also? Robin - Original Message - From: Lina Davern [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, October 05, 2002 11:49 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Almost c/s - horrid shift (VERY LONG!) hi I am lina and I went back to nursing after an 18 year break. I decided to go back to midwifery. So two and a half years ago I did a refresher course. I chose to go and work in a privae hospital because I knew the num and I thought that she would keep an eye on me. Each time I reflect on the situation I can not remember why I chose midwifery. Any way this year my num has decided that I work in the birthing unit. So ctg's have been one of my biggest night mares, I think you need a degree to read them to start off with. I even did an inservice lecture on ctg's but that was not enough. I have found that experience is the best teacher in reading ctg'd. Today I do not worry about early decels above 110bpm but I still report them because the obstetrician is the first to say that I was not informed. I have found that midwifery in hospitals has gone backwards. We do an initial ctg on all admission, if it has a sleep trace, like reduced varibility we try and wake the baby up and leave the monitor on until it wakes up. Any one that is induced goes on continous monitoring. Noone is game enought not to monitor. When I worked in the public system 20 years ago we listened to the fetal heart rates half hourly and then when pushing inbetween contractions. Our caesarean rates I am sure were not as high as what they are today. Even so I doubt that I would have the courage to be a midwifery practtioner like what of yee girls are on the list. Even though I am in the opposition to you I admire yee and I have learnt heaps from reading the list. Good luck and keep up the great work and say a prayer for me. Love Lina. From: YOLANDE WILLIAMS [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Almost c/s - horrid shift (VERY LONG!) Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 16:27:23 +1000 Jo, Did you report(incident report) the doctor and encourage your patient to make a complaint against the doctor(give her the patient feed back form)? This is how these rude unprofessional people need to be delt with. Never let thier lack of respect upset you. Your support of that woman is admirable I hope you can look past the bad and see the good that you can do? keep it up! Yolande. To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:35 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Almost c/s - horrid shift (VERY LONG!) I worked in birth suite last night, and had a not-so-nice shift... This woman was due to be induced on saturday, and came in for routine CTG monitoring (as she was post dates by about 5 or so days), and the CTG was very flat... variability 1-5, but a reactive trace. Eventually the decision was made to induce there and then. She had an ARM around 3pm, and was 2cm dilated. Clear liquor. Since this was her second baby, they decided to leave her for an hour to see if she went into labour 'spontaneously'. She felt some niggles, that's all. So after SEVEN attempts to get an IV into her (and 2 hours after the ARM) syntocinon was commenced. For most of that time after the ARM I was told to leave the CTG on because they (the doctors) were not happy with it. And, of course when the syntocinon went up, the CTG was there to stay. Because the woman was
[ozmidwifery] pain relief
Dear List, I need some help for a paper I'm doing. In 1999, I attended antenatal classes with my daughter. On pain, the discussion progressed from nitrous oxide, pethidine to epidural, with nothing of the functions of pain for the mother and baby in natural birth, nor endorphins nor other natural pain relief. In hospitals only,is it still the same or has progress been made?? thanks in anticipation. Liz
Re: [ozmidwifery] pain relief
Dear Jane, Many thanks for your prompt reply. However, my suspicions are that the teaching in some hospitals might differ to yours, and am seeking confirmation of that fact. Yours is thetype I advocate. Liz
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Dear List, For interest www.gentlebirth.org/nwnm.org/nwnm_org.html Liz
Re: [ozmidwifery] Almost c/s - horrid shift (VERY LONG!)
Yes, absolutely. - Original Message - From: Lynne Staff To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 8:58 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Almost c/s - horrid shift (VERY LONG!) I agree, BUT there are ways and ways of discussing.. - Original Message - From: elizabeth mcalpine To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 7:29 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Almost c/s - horrid shift (VERY LONG!) Jo, you did great - as did the couple!!! early decelerations due to head compression are of less concern than late, as you know, and in a multi who will dilate quickly the stress put on all of you is just about typical of hospital and medicalised birth. I just hate the panic sometimes too - after nearly 30 years - the same story. And sometimes the pressure is just enormous. Frightening women is part of medicalisation but, to understand it from their (the medicos) point of view, the pressure on them is also enormous, and the fear of litigation real. You did well. Sometimes things do get out of control and there's little you can do about it. Liz - Original Message - From: JoFromOz To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:35 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Almost c/s - horrid shift (VERY LONG!) I worked in birth suite last night, and had a not-so-nice shift... This woman was due to be induced on saturday, and came in for routine CTG monitoring (as she was post dates by about 5 or so days), and the CTG was very flat... variability 1-5, but a reactive trace. Eventually the decision was made to induce there and then. She had an ARM around 3pm, and was 2cm dilated. Clear liquor. Since this was her second baby, they decided to leave her for an hour to see if she went into labour 'spontaneously'. She felt some niggles, that's all. So after SEVEN attempts to get an IV into her (and 2 hours after the ARM) syntocinon was commenced. For most of that time after the ARM I was told to leave the CTG on because they (the doctors)were not happy with it. And, of course when the syntocinon went up, the CTG was there to stay. Because the woman was mobilising well, on the ball, on the loo, walking, sitting, etc, the trace wasn't very clear. So, I sat with her the whole time, listening to the baby's heart, often getting the maternal pulse showing up on the monitor (low-lying placenta), but always hearing the baby's heart rate in the backround, assuring me of the baby's well-being. After about an hour of sketchy tracing, I told the woman and her husband that the doctor might want to put a FSE on because they wouldn't be sure of how the baby was from the printout. I showed them the device, and explained to them everything that would happen. They asked whether it would hurt the baby. I can't lie... a wire being screwed into a baby's head would hurt anyone. I said it would probably hurt the baby, but chances are it won't harm the baby. They were not happy with that, really, and the husband said that he has been sitting with me the whole time, listening to the baby's heart with me, and he was happy that the baby was fine if I was. Just then, I heardthe first decelleration. I watched and heard it go down to about 80 at the onset of the contraction, then return to the baseline of about 135 as the contraction was letting up. An early decelleration. I listened in carefully during the next contraction, and the same thing happened. I went out to tell the doctor, and she came in, all stressed out, saying she had to put a FSE on. The father explained their concerns, and the woman was getting all stressed out too. I tried calming her, just whispering, 'just ignore the talking, you've been doing really well concentrating on your breathing, just keep doing that', etc... Eventually they agreed to see how dilated the cervix was before deciding on the FSE. If she was almost fully, they didn't want it. Unfortunately, it was time for doctor's change of shift. The new doctor to come on is one I've had altercations with before: he's rude, unwoman friendly and spiteful. He came in loudly proclaiming her need for and FSE, so they had to explain all over again to him why they didn't want one. The woman was contracting, and wanted silence, and even said, "shut up!" and he just kept talking, explaining why they needed it. So he did a VE. 4cm. After 3 hours of good contractions on a
Re: [ozmidwifery] SUNDAY AND MONDAY's GOOD NEWS
Dear Jan, Pure magic to read!!! What a high you must be on. More power to MC and NMAP!! love Liz - Original Message - From: Jan Robinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 7:44 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] SUNDAY AND MONDAY's GOOD NEWS Dear List Just giving you the lowdown of what is happening in my personal life and within the expanding Maternity Coalition NSW. Sunday began at 3am with my daughter rupturing her membranes. I went over to her place to check out the baby and as nothing was happening in way of contractions we both lay down to rest for a while. My rest was not to last as my mobile rang and Scott told me that Rachel had been labouring well for a few hours and now needed me. (I am using their names as many of you may have been present at the last HBA conference when this couple presented their paper on the stillbirth of their first baby Stella, at home last year.) Rachel and Scott's baby boy, Alejandre was born through water around lunch time into the arms of both parents where he stayed until his placenta was born and gently collected (a lotus birth again, as was Stella's) Births don't come much more special than Alejandre's, and Kerrie and I were overwhelmed by being honoured to be in attendence for Rachel and Scott once again. Once the Carrea family were settled I went back to my daughter who had been holding off I'm sure. Janelaboured at home durintg the afternoon leading on to the second joyous event of the day later that evening. In the deep water of the pool at KGV/RPA Natural Birth Centre emerged my latest grand-daughter Nell Emily Robinson Zarrella, into the loving hands of her mother and father. Oh, what another marvellous feeling! So although I still felt exhausted after a night's sleep, I was elated enough to get to Camden Hospital next morning in time to sing Justine Cains' song ³Bob the Premier he can fix it!² while Bob was officially opening the new refurbished Camden hospital at 1000 h. I proudly joined with the other MC women with their babies and children who came along from the beautiful Blue Mountains (where they are trying to stop women birthing in their local hospital) and as far away at Canberra and Goulburn to support the Camden women in their efforts to be able to give birth in the beautiful Camden Birth Centre that is CLOSED TO BIRTHS! The Area administration insists women must give birth in Campbelltown some twenty minutes away! A few of the MC women got into the marquee where the official opening ceremony took place but were not allowed to take their posters inside. The rest of us were locked outside the wire fencing with Security presence standing close by as we undid the lock on the gate and tried to get in. However, I¹m sure this locking of the MC outside looked even better on the TV! Women with children and babies LOCKED OUT of the hospital opening ceremony! Our song, sung to the tune of ²Bob the Builder² drowned the Premier out throughout his speech, his tan getting tanner! A few of us went around to the back of the hospital where Bob's driver was waiting for his quick exit and we were able to wave him off with our placards in close proximity. We did not waste time around the back waiting for the Health Minister to get to his car. He is a lost cause according to the Democrats representatives who was with us. (Bob does not listen to his Health Minister as much as he does to his Treasurer, who should now be our target with the costings involved with medicalised care and midwifery care) Denise handed MC literature to all who walked out the back entrance and then we returned with the children to the front of the hospital where the rest of the women and the organiser Justine Caines and local women Joanne Westley were being interviewed by Channel Nine. Justine and Joanne made their points well. I can't say enough about the wonderfully patient babies (taking it all in for the future) and the articulate older children who fortunately were on school holidays and able to contribute to the loudness of the singing and provide great responses to some nearby school kids who called us a bunch of weirdos through their school fence. There was also a wonderful grand-mother all the way from Colorado USA who was pushing her daughters babies up hill and down dale so that she could wave and shout her message wherever appropriate. What a wonderful two days I have had ... And this week will get better and better as the lobbying is continuing throughout the country ... with midwives making every endeavour to work with their local women to achieve the midwife choice for all. Yours in solidarity with Barb, Justine, Tracy and all the other wonderful women of the Maternity Coalition. Jan Robinson __ Jan Robinson Phone/fax: 011+ 61+ 2+ 9546 4350 Independent Midwife Practitioner e-mail: [EMAIL
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Circumstances caused me to miss the launch of NMAP - and also the news. Fill me in on the Melbourne launch, please.. Liz
Re: [ozmidwifery] A mans point of view.
Brilliant - Original Message - From: Heartlogic To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2002 7:05 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] A mans point of view. Mary M, thanks so much for sending this item. The following is a response I sent to Lifematters. In solidarity, Carolyn Hastie Oh dear! I read this man Sean Kelly's story with a deep sense of sorrow. How sad his experience is for himself and for his children and his partner. Humour is great isn't it? It relieves stress and is a great coping strategy. It also allows us to see under the surface and is a powerful social commentary. Leunig's wonderful cartoons bear testimony to that. Alas, it demonstrates in this situation, how the birth of a baby can be less than optimum for the child's wellbeing. Current brain and behavioural research shows how important it is that children are wanted and are welcomed with caring loving arms and hearts. This man's story also shows how fathers can feel alienated and dismissed. It is becoming more and more obvious that the environment around and within a mother influences the foundations of the sense of self of the infant. The early foundation sets the matrix for the emergence of the adult. The situation this man, Sean Kelly describes sounds typical of one where the couple have not had the opportunity to explore their feelings about parenting, nor have they been able to explore the realities of childbirth and develop effective self management strategies for pregnancy, birth, relationships or parenting. It is also clear that the couple did not know the midwives who were caring for them and therefore there was no rapport and no inclusion of the father in the transformative and extraordinary process of giving birth to a new, precious human being. What a tragedy. The good news is that it can be so different. Couples who have access to one to one midwifery care are enabled to explore their feelings, develop self management strategies and understand the process. One to one midwifery care also enables the father to become and feel valued and part of the whole process. To help him feel included, vitally important, unlike the way this man, Sean Kelly apparently felt, totally out of what was going on, being sent to get vases rather than allowed to be over-awed at the amazing journey of the human spirit and the sacredness of the process. A group called Materntiy Coaltion, consisting of various women's groups, mothers, midwives and others who care about birth and what happens to our babies at birth have consulted across Australia and have written a National Maternity Action Plan (NMAP) NMAP details can be found at www.maternitycoalition.org.au/nmap.html The National Maternty Action Plan is a document which calls for government bodies to facilitate substantial change to the way in which maternity services are provided, by making available to all women, their partners and their families, the choice of publically funded community midwifery care. This model promotes continuity of care from ante natal, through labour and birth, and for post natal care. The National Maternity Action Plan is being launched across Australia on the 24th September. People are gathering in every major city at the respective Parliament houses to launch NMAP. For more details, please call me, Carolyn Hastie, 0418 428 430. warmly, Carolyn Hastie "True self worth, success and wealth can only come about from responsible love, caring and compassionate thoughts and actions." Ty Metsker Child Development, Family and Individual Counselor
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Dear Ricardo and list, Great to have you on the list Ricardo, and more power to you and Rehuna. At last, a very human obstetrician!! Last year, when the "Best for Women" conference was announced, I wrote to them asking if there was midwife representation, as we really (??) wanted the same thing. And, I had stated that I was interested in attending too. No response. Deluding myself yet again. cheers, Liz
[ozmidwifery] Fw: BOUNCE ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
- Original Message - From: Kim Hunter [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: elizabeth mcalpine [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, August 16, 2002 10:05 AM Subject: Re: BOUNCE [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dear Elizabeth, Unfortunately, your email has bounced due to the use of the word unsubstantiated in your email to the list. The email program has miss read it as uns*bscribe. The mailing list program has a number of special commands. If it finds these in messages sent to the list, it often redirects them to me. This is to prevent a lot of s*bscribe and uns*bscribe messages from accidentally reaching the list. You might like to try resending this message to list. To make sure it doesn't bounce again replace the u with an asterix like so uns*bstantiated. Regards Kim At 21:49 14/08/2002, you wrote: From: elizabeth mcalpine [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] OP babies Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 21:49:44 +1000 Robin, An interesting article by Jean Sutton - the advocate of optimal fetal positioning (named by Pauline Scott) is in the Journal of the Association of Chartered Physiotherapists in Women's Health, no. 79, August, 1996. Available through MIDIRS. The editorial note makes reference to the fact that it is unresearched and unsu*stantiated, but based on 'expert clinical opinion'. Another good article is Birth without active pushing, in The Practising Midwife, April 2000, vol 3, no. 4. Liz - Original Message - From: Barbara Howe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 10:12 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] OP babies Robin Has this research on OFP been published in a journal somewhere? Barbara http://digital.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Digital How To - Get the best out of your PC! -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. - Kim Hunter Step Two Designs Pty Ltd Knowledge Management Consultancy, SGML XML Content Management Requirements Toolkit 112 CMS requirements, ready to cut-and-paste http://www.steptwo.com.au/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] OP babies
One response I heard recently.."if we tell the mothers that their baby is OP, we will cause anxiety". Personally, I think it is important to avoid this position, and tell them, and believe that women should be told. It does indeed cause many problems as you mentioned. I also tell them what to do to try to correct it, prior to labour, from 34 weeksprimip, 37 - 38 multi as Sutton Scott advise. They suggest that the following happens; early SROM, inco-ordinate contractions, post maturity, induction, augmentation, increased pain, longer labour, medical complications etc. Ifits during labour, its off the bed, upright, movement - rocking, climbing, birth ball, hands and knees etc. Liz - Original Message - From: Jo Dean Bainbridge To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 9:03 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] OP babies I have a question that will probably be seen as a silly one to some (but remember I am a consumer so it is my right to ask silly questions!) If one of the main reasons for cs is failure to progress and fetal malpresentation AND a common factor with both these 'reasons' is a baby that is persistently in OP ... why doesn't anyone do anything to correct this before labour? I know a large portion of bubs are OP then turn during labour; but it seems like we have found that it is easier to deal with it by cs or forceps rotation...why is it we don't try to avoid the situation altogether? Very few women I have encountered were even aware of the term OP or what the whole OP presentation involves (longer labours more interventions etc). Why do we pregnant mums not get told during ante-natal check ups what position bubs in? Why doesn't anyone check when labour commences? I am aware of the optimal presentation booklet and now try to encourage all women I come across to be aware of their posture and to try swimming and sitting in positions as well as vertical positioning during labourthat will encourage bub to be OA but this is AFTER I had a cs for failure to progress (8cm and stalled for 2 hours no fetal distress- due to having a monitor on and being made to be supine...no wonder bub did not turn himself!) I am curious why this seems to be something that is ignored by mainstream but something that plays a major role in how birth results as cs orivd?? can anyone shed somelight?? Jo Bainbridgefounding member CARES SAemail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]phone: 08 8388 6918birth with trust, faith love...
Re: [ozmidwifery] Frightening women
Andrea, I didn't get the end of the article by Germaine Greer - did you?? What I read I liked. Liz - Original Message - From: Andrea Robertson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2002 2:38 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Frightening women Hi listers, I thought this article by Germaine Greer was well worth a read - it starts out on the HRT debate and then extends to the general sport of scaring women about their biological capabilities. I wrote a short letter to the editor, but don't know if they'll publish it... http://www.smh.com.au/text/articles/2002/07/12/1026185109775.htm Yours, Andrea - Andrea Robertson Birth International * ACE Graphics * Associates in Childbirth Education e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.birthinternational.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] off topics
assistance required Involved with asylum seekers, I am seeking food supplies for the shopfront. Dried foods such as lentils, beans, spices and fresh vegetables. As my network is poor as yet, can anyone give me guidance where I could seek such aid? thanks Liz
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I was so happy to be involved in the new teamcare at a local hospital. Today, I spent time refreshing antenatal care, which hasn't changed in 70 years except for additional tests. I felt that another day was unwarranted but the supervisor got a bit flighty - the education bit that I should hear was important to her. I have been teaching women for 30 years. I have been teaching women what I was taught; then, what I have unlearned. Now, as a mother and grandmother, I have to listen to the education given bypeople half my age - mainly non-mothers. I am a keen learner and have no objection to learning from those younger than I - if they know better. I have studied for a degree in nursing - completed in 2001, am currently studying post graduate adult education; have attended every conferenceavailable which I can attend; am very well read, and I am well deindoctrinated. Any advice appreciated because I do not want to jeopardize my job at this time. thanks, Liz P.S. If I had the choice, I would have my own practice.
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Denise, "NMAP - a labour of love" I like it. Liz What about NMAP - freedomto birth your child, NMAP - birthing with family, friendsand fundamentalfreedom Lie and deliver or - stand up for birth with NMAP. YourNational Maternity Action Plan for beautiful birthing. YourNational Maternity Action Plan - pushing for birth reform. (Joy) Pushing for birth reform with the NMAP ( I like these two best) Liz
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OK. I've got to join in. How about "Birth of the Future" "Birthing the Future" heh, heh Liz
cord clamping
Interesting articles on this website, www.gentlebirth.org.au particularly the following, www.gentlebirth.org/archives/hastyclamping.html Liz
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Dear Denise at S.J.F.Electrical, I just love your poster, have photocopied it and am passing it around. I'm amazed to find that many midwives do not know about the maternity coalition. Liz
Maternity manifesto for election candidates
Title: Maternity manifesto for election candidates What about this permission granted for use by RCM journal. I sent it to ACMI last year but dont know what happened. Liz Maternity manifesto for election candidates Do the maternity services in your community? 1 Provide women with real choices about how and where they give birth? ..in a small, midwife-led unit, at home, hospital whichever suits womens individual needs and circumstances. 2 Offer high quality care that is cost-effective? ..with current caesarean section rate at 20% and obstetric litigation, the cost of over-medicalised childbirth has never been clearer. There is a better way. 3 Employ enough midwives to provide one-to-one care for every woman during labour ..can birth places guarantee that women will not be left alone? 4 Allow women to get to know the midwives who will care for them? ..by making sure that every woman has a named midwife who she can call with queries and concerns, or by providing caseload care, which means that the same midwife provides care throughout pregnancy and after 5 Give women and babies the care they need in the first days and weeks after birth? ..postnatal care is underfunded, leaving women and their families without the help they need. Permitted use from RCM Midwives Journal, June 2001.
Fw: Cosleeping
Talk about separation of mother and infant!! This is ridiculous. It is not true unless the mother is drugged Liz All the sharing on the list about the wonderful benefits of cosleeping has stirred my conscience. I have not had children, but can see that this is a very natural thing to do. However, the is a big SIDS prevention push at the hospital where I work, and one of the big no, nos is cosleeping. One of the paeds is on the SIDS committee and apparently there where two cases in our area last year, two cases too many. We have been asked to get parents to sign a form stating that they have received the information on safe sleeping, including the information that cosleeping is not recommended. A midwives, many of us feel uncomfortable with telling mothers that they must not sleep with their babies, and in my practice I was beginning to encourage more and more mothers to "kanga cuddle" their babies and have a snooze together in the days following the birth. Especially if they were having feeding issues. I do know however, that there are also midwives that if they find a mother and baby asleep in bed together, will remove the baby from the bed! I know that there is also alternative research on cosleeping which I should try and track down, but are there any thoughts from the wise women of this list as to how to approach the current recommendations on SIDS?
Re: relactation
Macha - well done!!! Your story I am keeping to inform others what can be done. Liz Subject: relactation Macha's relactation story. Baby Emeleen was born 22nd March, 2001. First day was great. Second night was a nightmare. She wouldnt stop crying and my nipples were beginning to hurt. Midwife taught me to use controlled crying...on my 2 DAY old baby (If I knew then what I know now!). She howled through the night, I after exhausting and highly interventional labour was exhausted. Nobody would take my baby to the nursery, I was beginning to become irrational. Next morning, baby still crying, midwife says I'm not supposed to say this, but you need some sleep. Would you like to give Emeleen some formula?. Gladly agreed, and entered downward spiral at this point. Expressed madly through the day so I wouldnt have to give her formula again. When I got home, after 3 days in hospital, (sore nipples gone, technique on the ball) we were doing alright, feeling a bit stressed and tired, but coping. Day 5, enter bottlefeeding fascist mother. Shes hungry, you dont have enough milk, your boobs look smaller etc etc. Give baby another bottle. Attend hospital b/f centre, told to feed 3 hourly and express. I still felt incredibly stressed. Baby began putting on weight and was doing fine, but I was convinced, under influence of my mother, that it was not enough. She put on a whole lot, then in 5 days put on 15g, and I panicked. Started giving more bottles. Contacted ABA and got a supply line. Got a script of maxalon, and continued to b/f and supplement with supply line until Emeleen was 5 months old (and a bit). Totally on formula, she was incredibly constipated, so I decided to relactate, also because I missed breastfeeding, and felt totally inadequate, and like a failure. I used Goldfarb/Newman protocol (Diane35 and domperidone) to buil up breast tissue and after a month started expressing anywhere from 8-12 times a day. Tried every method under the sun to get Emeleen back to the breast, and the best I could do was get her to bite them..and then crack up laughing at mummies reaction. I persevered and am able to express about 140mls per day...not much, but I feel great Emeleen, now 14 months is incredibly interested in my boobs. Always looking down my shirt and squealing with delight when she squeazes milk from my nipples. It is surprisingly a good feeling...although not a complete breastfeeding relationship, we have our own way of doing it. The best thing about it is that I feel satisfied. I feel like I have achieved something, although it may seem like nothing to others. The very fact that she has learnt to accept my breasts and play with them is enoughand of course, she gets the important breastmilk!!! -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
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Paul Tracy, Thanks for forwarding Vicki Chan's letter. Wonderful. So succintly put. This is another one to keep. Liz
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Dear Joy, I stand corrected if I made a wrong comment about baby friendly initiative - that will be deleted from my mind. Some of what I said though, you must admit, has relevance. with my best wishes to you Liz
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Re: Melbourne's child letter 'Breast is still best' My daughter took issue with the writer's comment on the midwife 'assisting younger, more inexperienced mothers'. As an 18yr old, and the baby newly born, I described what to do without touching;she listened, and breast fed for 14 months - no dummies, no bottles. I find that young mothers havelittle or nodifficulty at all - it seems to me that it is the older, more 'educated' mother who has problems. In fact, its a reflection on our society and our health system that Western women experience problems. Why is this?? Having worked with Indonesian women; a multicultural population of women in the Middle East and Aboriginal women - I never saw the problems with BF that I see in the West. Those women just get on and do it, naturally. Many of the Middle Eastern women don't wish to feed immediately, and many are uninterested until the milk comes in.Many don't express, they rest. When the milk comes in, they feed thereafter for about 2 years. They bond well with their children and usually have many. It is not unusual to observe women with their faces veiled, the breast exposed and the baby suckling contendedly. Women returning to the workforce have government instigated breast feeding breaks in their work-day for about 12 months. The 'baby friendly initiative' I believe, was aimed at developing countries whose children were dying of diarrhoeal disease through contaminated water, incorrect formula and lack of hygiene. It has been taken up with such vehemence in the West, a crusade if you will, with extraordinary focus on technique. No wonder mothers and many midwives find it daunting. One woman asked me once 'What about mother-friendly?' Personally, I'd like to see mothers returned to their homes as soon as possible after birth in hospital (given that there's no option to be at home where they belong to birth their babies), have support from ABA, have support from a community of workers who will cook, clean and look after any other children (particularly if there is no extended family) and allow 40 days of peace and quiet, relaxation, and with the mother and baby doing what other mammals do with little interference. The crux of the matter, I believe, is our health system, which purports to empower people to take responsibility for their own health but in fact, does the opposite. If we, as midwives and lactation consultants, are forever explaining, checking position and suckling, and the other numerous, onerous tasks and rituals that comprise breast feeding in our world, what message does this send to new mothers? I'll tell you;the mother is inadequate, at fault or to blame. However, this is not true. No, the mother is a victim as surely as we, the female health professionals who have subordinated womanhood to our health system and the medical hegemony. Liz McAlpine
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Sally, yes, I missed that point entirely about the drugs.and yes, its a good reason to continue to fight for real choices for women. I hate drugs and especially when they are not required. It just doesn't make sense does it - a woman preconception and throughout pregnancy decries drugs yet, in labour, she'll take everything that's going. C/S we can understand. And a lot of staff are drug pushers. And its to do with the ante-natal education. Drugs shouldn't be mentioned except for complicated births etc.
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attention Christine Tony Holliday Ethel Burns, Oxford Centre for Health Care Research and development may have info you need. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Also, BMJ Volume 319, 21/8/99 Midwifery guidelines for use of water in Labour Ethel Burns Sheila Kitzinger (Capers bookstore, I think) There's another by Michel Odent which I can't find at the moment!! Liz
Re: Waterbirth and labour in water.
Dear Christine Tony Holliday www.waterbirth.org/index2.html great bibliography! Liz Dear All, I am looking for any information you have on using water in labour and/or waterbirth. Any policies or statistics, published or unpublished would be useful to me. In fact any information you think may be useful. Christine
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This may be a daft question..if the midwives in the Community Midwifery programme in WA have PI insurance, and the insurance company agrees that midwifery practice is low risk..why can't it be nationwide? thanks Liz
