RE: [ozmidwifery] The Advertiser today...
I feel I need to reply to this mail, to say that in no way have I ever intended to aim criticism at midwives who choose to work in the 'system' which is where yes, I'm quite aware, that the vast majority of women birth. I have only the utmost respect for those who are able to provide a quality service, that is evidence based and woman centred, despite what I see as a system that predominantly doesn't support that. I could not do it, and I have several friends who can, and for that, on behalf of my women friends who birth in hospital I am thankful. I am also the first one to admit that I simply don't have the skills to work effectively in a high risk area, or any hospital unit, and that I would indeed need some further education or at least a refresher to attend women in this situation, and so I chose to work in the community instead. I have always afforded hospital based midwives the utmost respect, when circumstances have led me to require their assistance with a birthing woman. Unfortunately, I can't say the same has been returned. No tarring with a brush going on here, just a reality, that many of us out there putting our homes and families on the line every day, are unable to gain any form of respectful treatment from anyone, be they medical or midwifery staff, when we step foot in a hospital, even for the most appropriate reasons. I too wish for that unity you talk about, but I fear that until the woman, and her choices, no matter how safe or unsafe, well or ill advised, or absolutely for or against what we believe in, is the focus, we have a long way to go... With respect Tania -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of gch midwife Sent: Wednesday, 2 November 2005 6:25 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] The Advertiser today... I have been a keen reader of the ozmidwifery site for some time, and have always admired and respected the dedication, knowledge, and passion for achieving a normal birth, that is continually portrayed on the site by homebirth midwives. It was therefore, with great disappointment that I watched the criticism unfold recently regarding the skills/practice of hospital based midwives (or supposed lack there of!!). Comments like this appear arrogant and serve only to cause division within a profession striving to provide optimal outcomes regardless of where a woman chooses to birth. Time for a reality check. We are living in a 21st century society, not Utopia. There will always be women who are unable, for many reasons, to birth safely in the familiar environment of home, or supported in a birth centre model. For these women, thankfully, there are a dedicated group of midwives willing to care for them in a hospital environment. We do not need the care we provide undermined and devalued by midwives who consider themselves elitists in the area of childbirth. Instead, what is required is a unity within the profession and mutual respect for the work we each do. At what point in the evolution of midwifery practice was there a hierarchical system introduced which relegated hospital based midwives to the bottom of the pyramid, and elevated home birth midwives to the top of the pyramid I find comments such as deskilled and desensitised to the realities of birth and often lack confidence in their own midwifery skills extremely offensive and unprofessional. Criticism was also aimed at emphasis for hospital based midwives being on education in CTG interpretation, resuscitation and emergencies. As a hospital based midwife caring for high risk women with pregnancy complications (as well as uncomplicated pregnancy and childbirth), it would be grossly negligent of the midwife to not be competent in skills such as CTG interpretation, resuscitation and obstetric emergencies. If I was a woman birthing in a hospital environment, I would expect this level of education and expertise from my midwife. Regardless of your area of practice, be proud of where you work and the care you provide, but appreciate the unique skills and knowledge of other midwives who choose a different practice setting than your own. Hospital Based Midwife. From: Belinda [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] The Advertiser today... Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 18:00:33 -0800 not all midwives are oppressed or socialized unwillingly, they are often active participants in the way birth is medicalised and deemed as risk. they can be intelligent, educated women who believe in the way they manage birth. many only see it as work, something they do rather somethign that they are... to be proud of and cherished. unfortunately the lack of experience or knowledge about unmedicalsed ways of managing birth and the power of medicine and technology encourages and enforces their beliefs and practices. in saying this however once
RE: [ozmidwifery] The Advertiser today...
As a doula, I have noticed a huge difference in some hospital based midwives -the emphasis is on the word some in that sentence. I have witnessed women being manipulated by midwives because the midwife was unable to accept the woman did not wish to adhere to the unit policies...especially vbac related policies, or simply because I am an invited member of the birth team! Language and insinuation have been used to coerce, threaten and scare women into compliance. That is something that I have found to be the most upsetting quality...when the focus is on what suits the unit not the woman...be it the pressure of the unit or the fear of retribution upon a midwife that stands up for the rights of the woman, it reinforces the problems with the system. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.361 / Virus Database: 267.12.6/151 - Release Date: 10/28/2005 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] The Advertiser today...
I too wish for that unity you talk about, but I fear that until the woman, and her choices, no matter how safe or unsafe, well or ill advised, or absolutely for or against what we believe in, is the focus, we have a long way to go... Hear, hear, Tania. J -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] The Advertiser today...
Dear All Sage words Tania. May seem corny, but I always come back to the fact that midwife means 'with woman' so if as a midwife you are 'with' hospital policies or 'with' pandering to Dr and non-evidence based protocols then where is the woman? Being 'with woman' is not utopia, it is appropriate practice and the right of every woman. As someone very interested in politics I liken this scenario to a politician that is hamstrung by their parties policies and so really cannot say he/she will represent the needs of their constituents, because at the end of the day they will only do it if it conforms to party policy! Perhaps more midwives need to do a Barnaby Joyce and cross the floor voting against the party for things they feel are important!!! I will never be a midwife but as an active consumer I know all about putting it all on the line. Women will lead the change but we also need brave midwives prepared to back women. JC -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] The Advertiser today...
Perhaps today with women in a hospital setting means to help her by standing inbetween 'hospital policy', or 'the doctors' and the mother. Which I have seen countless times, with my own experiences and looking in from the outside? Amanda - Original Message - From: Justine Caines [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: OzMid List ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 12:28 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] The Advertiser today... Dear All Sage words Tania. May seem corny, but I always come back to the fact that midwife means 'with woman' so if as a midwife you are 'with' hospital policies or 'with' pandering to Dr and non-evidence based protocols then where is the woman? Being 'with woman' is not utopia, it is appropriate practice and the right of every woman. As someone very interested in politics I liken this scenario to a politician that is hamstrung by their parties policies and so really cannot say he/she will represent the needs of their constituents, because at the end of the day they will only do it if it conforms to party policy! Perhaps more midwives need to do a Barnaby Joyce and cross the floor voting against the party for things they feel are important!!! I will never be a midwife but as an active consumer I know all about putting it all on the line. Women will lead the change but we also need brave midwives prepared to back women. JC -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.6/152 - Release Date: 10/31/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.6/152 - Release Date: 10/31/2005 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] The Advertiser today...
I have been a keen reader of the ozmidwifery site for some time, and have always admired and respected the dedication, knowledge, and passion for achieving a normal birth, that is continually portrayed on the site by homebirth midwives. It was therefore, with great disappointment that I watched the criticism unfold recently regarding the skills/practice of hospital based midwives (or supposed lack there of!!). Comments like this appear arrogant and serve only to cause division within a profession striving to provide optimal outcomes regardless of where a woman chooses to birth. Time for a reality check. We are living in a 21st century society, not Utopia. There will always be women who are unable, for many reasons, to birth safely in the familiar environment of home, or supported in a birth centre model. For these women, thankfully, there are a dedicated group of midwives willing to care for them in a hospital environment. We do not need the care we provide undermined and devalued by midwives who consider themselves elitists in the area of childbirth. Instead, what is required is a unity within the profession and mutual respect for the work we each do. At what point in the evolution of midwifery practice was there a hierarchical system introduced which relegated hospital based midwives to the bottom of the pyramid, and elevated home birth midwives to the top of the pyramid I find comments such as deskilled and desensitised to the realities of birth and often lack confidence in their own midwifery skills extremely offensive and unprofessional. Criticism was also aimed at emphasis for hospital based midwives being on education in CTG interpretation, resuscitation and emergencies. As a hospital based midwife caring for high risk women with pregnancy complications (as well as uncomplicated pregnancy and childbirth), it would be grossly negligent of the midwife to not be competent in skills such as CTG interpretation, resuscitation and obstetric emergencies. If I was a woman birthing in a hospital environment, I would expect this level of education and expertise from my midwife. Regardless of your area of practice, be proud of where you work and the care you provide, but appreciate the unique skills and knowledge of other midwives who choose a different practice setting than your own. Hospital Based Midwife. From: Belinda [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] The Advertiser today... Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 18:00:33 -0800 not all midwives are oppressed or socialized unwillingly, they are often active participants in the way birth is medicalised and deemed as risk. they can be intelligent, educated women who believe in the way they manage birth. many only see it as work, something they do rather somethign that they are... to be proud of and cherished. unfortunately the lack of experience or knowledge about unmedicalsed ways of managing birth and the power of medicine and technology encourages and enforces their beliefs and practices. in saying this however once again I must encourage us all not to pity or dismiss hospital based midwives because firstly that is where most women birth and secondly many struggle day to day circumventing, manipulating or challenging the system, doctors other midwives, policies or procedures so they can care for women well (as i am sure Rachel is experiencing). it is often a lonely position to be in where you can be actively discriminated against and harrased . I do not lack confidence in my skills as a homebirth or hospital based midiwfe, the reality is there are significant differences in being able to use them. Belinda wump fish wrote: I think any midwife who has spent their career in a hospital setting would need 're-wiring' to attend homebirths. Hospital birth is so different to homebirth, and the danger is that midwives bring the hospital and it's guidelines to the home. I don't think it is a case of 'upskilling', just a totally different way of working and hospital midwives have been oppressed and socialised into a particular way of practising. They often lack confidence in their own midwifery skills and women's ability to birth. Rachel - trapped in a hospital with pinging machines and missing homebirth and midwifery. From: Tania Smallwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] The Advertiser today... Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 21:06:12 +0930 Love that term, Macdonaldisation! I also get concerned when I hear of midwives needing to be upskilled to attend 'normal' births, or to give women care in water, etc. I think as a midwife we should all be able to handle the 'normal'. I personally would need upskilling to work in a tertiary institution with all those machines that go 'ping'! Tania -Original Message- From: [EMAIL
RE: Re: [ozmidwifery] The Advertiser today...
I have worked with midwives from England who have a very medicalised view of birth. Also with a New Zealander who would just wander in, stocking drawers etc with a woman labouring in the room. I also met a Kiwi who had a C/S for CPD in NZ then went on to have a natural birth with the next baby who was nearly 2lbs heavier. All is not rosy in England, nor NZ. Please don't 'knock' Australia, some of us resent it. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, 31 October 2005 12:23 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: Re: [ozmidwifery] The Advertiser today... Hi Rachel, It is difficult practicing in a new country no matter what you do, culturally Aust UK are so dissimilar it's even more frustrating. I am a Kiwi am used to the NZ system which is very different to here. I find Aust women annoyingly passive apathetic regarding midwifery pregnancy generally, they are very American in their attitudes beliefs actually that drives me insane. In NZ we are much more English, it took me ages to get my head around the 'user pays' system here. I still don't believe women should have to pay to have a choice in their pregnancy care or place of birth, it is their right, not privilege (hence I don't make a profit from my HB practice as I often don't charge women, I barter or suggest share care with the local birthcentreeMW Clinicc because it's free they can see me for alternate visits, doesn't go down well with the political midwives in Melbourne so I keep it quiebirthcentree I refuse to get tangled up in the 'insurance debacle, women will have the choice of birthing at home regardless as far as I'm concerned. I do practice with back-up, all women book into a hospital in case transfer is required, I have a great network of alternative practitioners who work in collaborative practice with me I can refer at any given time to a lovely OB, who is always available as an ear if I need him. I don't feel the need for any other presence, but I do have an extremely competent apprentice who is nearly finished her direct entry mid we work very well together. I chose her because she sees Mid as a separate identity to nursing, has no fear of birth sees pregnancy/maternity care as a state of health wellbeing. I have worked in a group/team practice before whilst the guaranteed time off O/C was good that was the only thing that worked in it for me. I found it just wasn't my style of mid. The politics gave me the irrits there is always the power control crap that goes with groups that I have no time for. So you could practice perfectly well without the insurance, back up or midwifery team because you'd build your own quite quickly once out of the system. I do sympathise. Don't go for the supermarket option just yet, it sounds like it'd be a shame, their gain midwiferiess' loss. ? look at NZ.(much nicer than Aust in every way!!) ..I am going home tomorrow for 3 weeks as I do every year will check things out as I do every year ( but my children are here so my options are limited) . Would you like an update on what's happening there when I get back? Are you contracted to the hospital you are working for ? Please don't stop your contributions to the ozmid, I enjoy your posts things will get better, it's early days !! Kind regards Brenda Manning www.themidwife.com.au wump fish [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Brenda, I know exactly what you mean about thinking in lines and circles! I think this is my big problem. I think in circles in the hospital setting which does not go down too well. As for why I am not attending homebirths. In the UK I attended homebirths funded by the NHS (medicare) and backed-up by the maternity system. I worked in a community team and we covered the on-call between 4 of us. I'm in Queensland now and things are a bit different. If I want to do homebirths I would have to be an independent mw. I don't feel that I know the system here well enough after only 9 months. Also I would have to practise without insurance or back-up or a midwifery team. The hospital setting is very frustrating and I plan to escape within 2 years. Not sure where - research, education. supermarket. Rachel From: brendamanning [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] The Advertiser today... Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 14:11:25 +1100 Rachel, Please don't 'shut up for now', as you know once you start 'not' saying things it becomes a habit that they never get said at all! Also I enjoy your posts ! I wonder why you aren't attending homebirths here if you enjoy then so much ? There is no money in it (not the way I practice anyway LOL) but if it's where your heart lies then you make do somehow. I work bank at the birth centre to feed the family homebirths in the community to feed my soul ! I totally agree
Re: Re: [ozmidwifery] The Advertiser today...
Sorry Ken, Point taken, all is not rosy anywhere in the world is it? It's really a blessing that we area ll different. I really set myself up for that comment didn't I ? Thank you for being so polite understanding. It's not my usual style to knock' anyone. bad day, verrry bad day . Fortunately a cause is not responsible for it's followers ! With kind regards Brenda Manning www.themidwife.com.au - Original Message - From: Ken WArd [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Monday, October 31, 2005 7:32 PM Subject: RE: Re: [ozmidwifery] The Advertiser today... I have worked with midwives from England who have a very medicalised view of birth. Also with a New Zealander who would just wander in, stocking drawers etc with a woman labouring in the room. I also met a Kiwi who had a C/S for CPD in NZ then went on to have a natural birth with the next baby who was nearly 2lbs heavier. All is not rosy in England, nor NZ. Please don't 'knock' Australia, some of us resent it. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, 31 October 2005 12:23 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: Re: [ozmidwifery] The Advertiser today... Hi Rachel, It is difficult practicing in a new country no matter what you do, culturally Aust UK are so dissimilar it's even more frustrating. I am a Kiwi am used to the NZ system which is very different to here. I find Aust women annoyingly passive apathetic regarding midwifery pregnancy generally, they are very American in their attitudes beliefs actually that drives me insane. In NZ we are much more English, it took me ages to get my head around the 'user pays' system here. I still don't believe women should have to pay to have a choice in their pregnancy care or place of birth, it is their right, not privilege (hence I don't make a profit from my HB practice as I often don't charge women, I barter or suggest share care with the local birth centre MW Clinic because it's free they can see me for alternate visits, doesn't go down well with the political midwives in Melbourne so I keep it quiet I refuse to get tangled up in the 'insurance debacle, women will have the choice of birthing at home regardless as far as I'm concerned. I do practice with back-up, all women book into a hospital in case transfer is required, I have a great network of alternative practitioners who work in collaborative practice with me I can refer at any given time to a lovely OB, who is always available as an ear if I need him. I don't feel the need for any other presence, but I do have an extremely competent apprentice who is nearly finished her direct entry mid we work very well together. I chose her because she sees Mid as a separate identity to nursing, has no fear of birth sees pregnancy/maternity care as a state of health wellbeing. I have worked in a group/team practice before whilst the guaranteed time off O/C was good that was the only thing that worked in it for me. I found it just wasn't my style of mid. The politics gave me the irrits there is always the power control crap that goes with groups that I have no time for. So you could practice perfectly well without the insurance, back up or midwifery team because you'd build your own quite quickly once out of the system. I do sympathise. Don't go for the supermarket option just yet, it sounds like it'd be a shame, their gain midwiferiess' loss. ? look at NZ.(much nicer than Aust in every way!!) ..I am going home tomorrow for 3 weeks as I do every year will check things out as I do every year ( but my children are here so my options are limited) . Would you like an update on what's happening there when I get back? Are you contracted to the hospital you are working for ? Please don't stop your contributions to the ozmid, I enjoy your posts things will get better, it's early days !! Kind regards Brenda Manning www.themidwife.com.au wump fish [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Brenda, I know exactly what you mean about thinking in lines and circles! I think this is my big problem. I think in circles in the hospital setting which does not go down too well. As for why I am not attending homebirths. In the UK I attended homebirths funded by the NHS (medicare) and backed-up by the maternity system. I worked in a community team and we covered the on-call between 4 of us. I'm in Queensland now and things are a bit different. If I want to do homebirths I would have to be an independent mw. I don't feel that I know the system here well enough after only 9 months. Also I would have to practise without insurance or back-up or a midwifery team. The hospital setting is very frustrating and I plan to escape within 2 years. Not sure where - research, education. supermarket. Rachel From: brendamanning [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Re: Re: [ozmidwifery] The Advertiser today...
In terms of different health care systems, it is important to note that any access women have to services can only be as great as women's standing in that community. Gven that Australia only ranks about 28th in the world for percentage of women in parliament, and our rape stats are some of the worst in the world, it is hardly surprising that we are apparently stuck with our dysfunctional, unfriendly, maternity care system with it's comparatively poor outcomes. Countries like the UK, Holland and NZ are all ranked higher up in the list than Australia in terms of women's political involvement. This doesn't mean that women politicians are somehow more open to maternity reform, this is an individual thing. But it does indicate a better level of representation and respect of women as citiziens first and foremost, with inalienable human rights. Perhaps until we address some of the wider inequities in this country, we are indeed stuck with our current system? Ultimately however it is it's own worst enemy as a large group of traumatised, angry, disgruntled and highly motivated women is growing as a result of how we're treated in hospitals. Yes, there are exceptions but they are just that - exceptions. J -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: Re: [ozmidwifery] The Advertiser today...
Just a very subjective observation based on 9 months in Qld... I think that the women and mws here are more politicised. Perhaps it is that there is more to fight for - not sure. But, I have met more highly motivated women and mw in the last 9 months than I did in years in the UK. In the UK although the system was 'better', I was considered by colleagues as a bit weird and alternative. Here, although I annoy plenty of people, there are also many who think along the same lines. As for Australia - my family and I absolutely love it here. The place and the people more than make up for a maternity system in need of change. Rachel From: Janet Fraser [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: Re: [ozmidwifery] The Advertiser today... Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 23:30:06 +1100 In terms of different health care systems, it is important to note that any access women have to services can only be as great as women's standing in that community. Gven that Australia only ranks about 28th in the world for percentage of women in parliament, and our rape stats are some of the worst in the world, it is hardly surprising that we are apparently stuck with our dysfunctional, unfriendly, maternity care system with it's comparatively poor outcomes. Countries like the UK, Holland and NZ are all ranked higher up in the list than Australia in terms of women's political involvement. This doesn't mean that women politicians are somehow more open to maternity reform, this is an individual thing. But it does indicate a better level of representation and respect of women as citiziens first and foremost, with inalienable human rights. Perhaps until we address some of the wider inequities in this country, we are indeed stuck with our current system? Ultimately however it is it's own worst enemy as a large group of traumatised, angry, disgruntled and highly motivated women is growing as a result of how we're treated in hospitals. Yes, there are exceptions but they are just that - exceptions. J -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. _ Be the first to hear what's new at MSN - sign up to our free newsletters! http://www.msn.co.uk/newsletters -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] The Advertiser today...
not all midwives are oppressed or socialized unwillingly, they are often active participants in the way birth is medicalised and deemed as risk. they can be intelligent, educated women who believe in the way they manage birth. many only see it as work, something they do rather somethign that they are... to be proud of and cherished. unfortunately the lack of experience or knowledge about unmedicalsed ways of managing birth and the power of medicine and technology encourages and enforces their beliefs and practices. in saying this however once again I must encourage us all not to pity or dismiss hospital based midwives because firstly that is where most women birth and secondly many struggle day to day circumventing, manipulating or challenging the system, doctors other midwives, policies or procedures so they can care for women well (as i am sure Rachel is experiencing). it is often a lonely position to be in where you can be actively discriminated against and harrased . I do not lack confidence in my skills as a homebirth or hospital based midiwfe, the reality is there are significant differences in being able to use them. Belinda wump fish wrote: I think any midwife who has spent their career in a hospital setting would need 're-wiring' to attend homebirths. Hospital birth is so different to homebirth, and the danger is that midwives bring the hospital and it's guidelines to the home. I don't think it is a case of 'upskilling', just a totally different way of working and hospital midwives have been oppressed and socialised into a particular way of practising. They often lack confidence in their own midwifery skills and women's ability to birth. Rachel - trapped in a hospital with pinging machines and missing homebirth and midwifery. From: Tania Smallwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] The Advertiser today... Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 21:06:12 +0930 Love that term, Macdonaldisation! I also get concerned when I hear of midwives needing to be upskilled to attend 'normal' births, or to give women care in water, etc. I think as a midwife we should all be able to handle the 'normal'. I personally would need upskilling to work in a tertiary institution with all those machines that go 'ping'! Tania -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Belinda Sent: Sunday, 30 October 2005 1:57 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] The Advertiser today... a big part of it is the multi skilling crap which is just a way of getting constant work out an individual which i think is why so many places are against direct mid entry midwives, they cant be used like slaves to work everywhere anywhere anytime. it is an evolving problem and much to do with globalisation and utilising the human resources to the best benefit of corporation which hospitals are fast becoming. The macdonaldisation of society!!! It really worries me Belinda Tania Smallwood wrote: Not just a question for Barb, but anyone who knows about it, I'm curious to know about the Midwife/nurse practitioner that you refer to in Qld. What exactly do they do? How is this different to working within the scope of a registered midwife? I'm aware that the college is not supportive of the notion of midwives becoming NP's, but I'm actually interested in what role they play in maternity care over and above the general run of the mill midwife? Cheers, Tania -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. _ MSN Messenger 7.5 is now out. Download it for FREE here. http://messenger.msn.co.uk -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: Re: [ozmidwifery] The Advertiser today...
Hi Rachel, It is difficult practicing in a new country no matter what you do, culturally Aust UK are so dissimilar it's even more frustrating. I am a Kiwi am used to the NZ system which is very different to here. I find Aust women annoyingly passive apathetic regarding midwifery pregnancy generally, they are very American in their attitudes beliefs actually that drives me insane. In NZ we are much more English, it took me ages to get my head around the 'user pays' system here. I still don't believe women should have to pay to have a choice in their pregnancy care or place of birth, it is their right, not privilege (hence I don't make a profit from my HB practice as I often don't charge women, I barter or suggest share care with the local birthcentreeMW Clinicc because it's free they can see me for alternate visits, doesn't go down well with the political midwives in Melbourne so I keep it quiebirthcentree I refuse to get tangled up in the 'insurance debacle, women will have the choice of birthing at home regardless as far as I'm concerned. I do practice with back-up, all women book into a hospital in case transfer is required, I have a great network of alternative practitioners who work in collaborative practice with me I can refer at any given time to a lovely OB, who is always available as an ear if I need him. I don't feel the need for any other presence, but I do have an extremely competent apprentice who is nearly finished her direct entry mid we work very well together. I chose her because she sees Mid as a separate identity to nursing, has no fear of birth sees pregnancy/maternity care as a state of health wellbeing. I have worked in a group/team practice before whilst the guaranteed time off O/C was good that was the only thing that worked in it for me. I found it just wasn't my style of mid. The politics gave me the irrits there is always the power control crap that goes with groups that I have no time for. So you could practice perfectly well without the insurance, back up or midwifery team because you'd build your own quite quickly once out of the system. I do sympathise. Don't go for the supermarket option just yet, it sounds like it'd be a shame, their gain midwiferiess' loss. ? look at NZ.(much nicer than Aust in every way!!) ..I am going home tomorrow for 3 weeks as I do every year will check things out as I do every year ( but my children are here so my options are limited) . Would you like an update on what's happening there when I get back? Are you contracted to the hospital you are working for ? Please don't stop your contributions to the ozmid, I enjoy your posts things will get better, it's early days !! Kind regards Brenda Manning www.themidwife.com.au wump fish [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Brenda, I know exactly what you mean about thinking in lines and circles! I think this is my big problem. I think in circles in the hospital setting which does not go down too well. As for why I am not attending homebirths. In the UK I attended homebirths funded by the NHS (medicare) and backed-up by the maternity system. I worked in a community team and we covered the on-call between 4 of us. I'm in Queensland now and things are a bit different. If I want to do homebirths I would have to be an independent mw. I don't feel that I know the system here well enough after only 9 months. Also I would have to practise without insurance or back-up or a midwifery team. The hospital setting is very frustrating and I plan to escape within 2 years. Not sure where - research, education. supermarket. Rachel From: brendamanning [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] The Advertiser today... Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 14:11:25 +1100 Rachel, Please don't 'shut up for now', as you know once you start 'not' saying things it becomes a habit that they never get said at all! Also I enjoy your posts ! I wonder why you aren't attending homebirths here if you enjoy then so much ? There is no money in it (not the way I practice anyway LOL) but if it's where your heart lies then you make do somehow. I work bank at the birth centre to feed the family homebirths in the community to feed my soul ! I totally agree with you, it requires a complete change of mindset when I work for myself. Work in the unit, (and I work in a very lovely liberal unit if you strretch the boundaries of the prescriptive policies )requires my brain to function in a straight line. Alot of it is damage control treating the symptoms which the system often causes. However in my practice my brain works in a circle (if you can understand the metaphor) focuses largely on preventing the problem occurring in the first place. ! Not sure I can explain it but that's how it feels ! With kind regards
RE: [ozmidwifery] The Advertiser today...
Sorry Tania, I must have this reply to my email. I have concerns with the thinning or another layer of midwifery with Midwife Practitioner. To me a midwife is a midwife and a midwife. OK we can all develop other competencies but basically we should be able to care for birth women and their families as per ACMI definition of a midwife. This practitioner notion concerns me as it is a spin off from nursing. A shortage of medical staff results in nurses plugging up the gap such as ordering tests, medications and pathology etc. Surely we could have these added to our core education as modules. Here in Qld there is this push that only those that have Masters can be practitioners. I know graduate midwives coming out of Uni's are beginning midwives. Contrast that with midwives with experience who now will never be be to be called a Practitioner. Cairns has been accepted by Qld Health for a trial of Midwife Practitioner primarily for remote areas such as Palm Island. It is felt being a remote location they would be better serviced by a midwife ... (I don't know the rest as I say a midwife is a midwife ). Best to contact them direct for more information. I was at the ANF Conference in Darwin last week. Victorian midwives I can understand your frustration of ANF Victoria. Cows, cows and cows behave better. Their views on midwives are so entrenched. Basically there is an enhanced acknowledgement and understanding of midwifery and midwives that I did not see last time in Hobart. The first and only midwives problem was encountered with the second motion- A2. Inclusion of midwife and midwifery in the policies of the ANF | ANF New South Wales Branch That the 2005 ANF Biennial National Delegates Conference requests the inclusion of the word 'midwife' or 'midwifery' in the body of all appropriate ANF policies, guidelines, and position statements, instead of it being just a footnote. Moved: Seconded: Background Information Currently, all ANF policies carry the following stem statement which appears directly below the title of the policy: Where the term 'nurse' is used it includes all licensed classifications including, but not limited to: registered nurse, midwife, enrolled nurse, nurse practitioner. It is evident that the needs to conciliation work to be done between the ANF branches in Victoria and ACT with the ACMI branches. Their reasoning for voting against this resolution was unreasonable and obviously there is great discomfort with midwives in general in those two states. NSW Branch state secretary Brett Holmes gave a powerful address about the need for midwives and nurses to be working together and supporting each other as there is a lot to be learnt from the midwives and they (midwives) do not have the industrial strength to do it alone. He quoted what had happened in NZ with the NZNO having to get an agreement from the NZ Midwives organisation before the government would sign off the new agreement. He said in NZ they found it unwieldy and difficult to be negotiating from two fronts. He did not want the midwives to go out and form their own union. ANF is to be considered inclusive and if we do not include midwives it would be to our (ANF) detriment - or words to that effect. I will cut and paste this onto a new thread for ozmidwifery people. Cheers Barb Tania Smallwood wrote: Not just a question for Barb, but anyone who knows about it, I'm curious to know about the Midwife/nurse practitioner that you refer to in Qld. What exactly do they do? How is this different to working within the scope of a registered midwife? I'm aware that the college is not supportive of the notion of midwives becoming NP's, but I'm actually interested in what role they play in maternity care over and above the general run of the mill midwife? Cheers, Tania -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] The Advertiser today...
Title: Message So inaccurate about what NP are going to be doing in Qld! Trials are in various areas- ED, Palliative Care, Rural and in Cairns Midwife. There are clear defined protocol and endorsed processes 'within' hospital frameworks. Scope of practice is clearly defined. Another example of AMA scaremongering and throwing a tantrum because they cannot get their own way. Check out the Queensland Nursing Council web site for info on NP. Cheers Barb -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tania SmallwoodSent: Saturday, 29 October 2005 8:06 AMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: [ozmidwifery] The Advertiser today... Could this be the thin edge of the wedgedo they see this as a way of banning independent midwifery too, or am I just being paranoid? Tania (who is aware that thankfully, we dont have to train as nurses any more to become a midwife, but the reality is that many of us are) http://www.theadvertiser.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5936,17070060%255E2682,00.html Nursing back-up under attackKARA PHILLIPS, Health Reporter29oct05 INDEPENDENT nurse practitioners, who are not made to report to doctors, should not be able to work in South Australia, the Australian Medical Association says.AMA state president Chris Cain said yesterday there was "growing concern" about nurse practitioners who did not have the full back-up support of a medical team. The comments come just days after The Advertiser reported the chronic GP shortage has reached crisis point in the city's outer suburbs, with doctors claiming GP patient ratios at 1:5521 in the Woodcroft area in the south and 1:7596 around Williamstown in the north. Interstate, particularly in Queensland where doctor shortages are severe, there has been extensive debate about whether to introduce independent nurse practitioners allowed to treat some patients without answering to a doctor or hospital medical team to ease the strain on the system. "We would strongly oppose that move here in SA," Dr Cain said. "If there are doctor shortages, train more doctors don't put people with fewers skills into those positions." Dr Cain stressed the state's existing nurse practitioners, including the state's first paediatric palliative nurse practitioner Sara Fleming who started in her new role this week were not a problem. "There are doctors and audit processes to protect the health of patients." Ms Fleming, a Women's and Children's Hospital nurse, said her role would help cut treatment time and hospital stays for seriously ill children.
RE: [ozmidwifery] The Advertiser today...
Title: Message Not just a question for Barb, but anyone who knows about it, Im curious to know about the Midwife/nurse practitioner that you refer to in Qld. What exactly do they do? How is this different to working within the scope of a registered midwife? Im aware that the college is not supportive of the notion of midwives becoming NPs, but Im actually interested in what role they play in maternity care over and above the general run of the mill midwife? Cheers, Tania
Re: [ozmidwifery] The Advertiser today...
a big part of it is the multi skilling crap which is just a way of getting constant work out an individual which i think is why so many places are against direct mid entry midwives, they cant be used like slaves to work everywhere anywhere anytime. it is an evolving problem and much to do with globalisation and utilising the human resources to the best benefit of corporation which hospitals are fast becoming. The macdonaldisation of society!!! It really worries me Belinda Tania Smallwood wrote: Not just a question for Barb, but anyone who knows about it, I’m curious to know about the Midwife/nurse practitioner that you refer to in Qld. What exactly do they do? How is this different to working within the scope of a registered midwife? I’m aware that the college is not supportive of the notion of midwives becoming NP’s, but I’m actually interested in what role they play in maternity care over and above the general run of the mill midwife? Cheers, Tania -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] The Advertiser today...
Love that term, Macdonaldisation! I also get concerned when I hear of midwives needing to be upskilled to attend 'normal' births, or to give women care in water, etc. I think as a midwife we should all be able to handle the 'normal'. I personally would need upskilling to work in a tertiary institution with all those machines that go 'ping'! Tania -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Belinda Sent: Sunday, 30 October 2005 1:57 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] The Advertiser today... a big part of it is the multi skilling crap which is just a way of getting constant work out an individual which i think is why so many places are against direct mid entry midwives, they cant be used like slaves to work everywhere anywhere anytime. it is an evolving problem and much to do with globalisation and utilising the human resources to the best benefit of corporation which hospitals are fast becoming. The macdonaldisation of society!!! It really worries me Belinda Tania Smallwood wrote: Not just a question for Barb, but anyone who knows about it, I'm curious to know about the Midwife/nurse practitioner that you refer to in Qld. What exactly do they do? How is this different to working within the scope of a registered midwife? I'm aware that the college is not supportive of the notion of midwives becoming NP's, but I'm actually interested in what role they play in maternity care over and above the general run of the mill midwife? Cheers, Tania -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] The Advertiser today...
Belinda, you are right. I am the first direct entry midwife at the hospital I work at. There were concerns about my competency - I pointed out that I had done the equivalent of a 4yr degree in midwifery (UK) and had plenty of post grad experience of midwifery-led care. But, the main concern was that I would not be able to be moved into other areas of the hospital if needed or look after medical boarders. I'm a level 2, so probably would not have to move anyhow, but I wonder if they would have given me a level 1 job? Rachel From: Belinda [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] The Advertiser today... Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 20:26:43 -0700 a big part of it is the multi skilling crap which is just a way of getting constant work out an individual which i think is why so many places are against direct mid entry midwives, they cant be used like slaves to work everywhere anywhere anytime. it is an evolving problem and much to do with globalisation and utilising the human resources to the best benefit of corporation which hospitals are fast becoming. The macdonaldisation of society!!! It really worries me Belinda Tania Smallwood wrote: Not just a question for Barb, but anyone who knows about it, Im curious to know about the Midwife/nurse practitioner that you refer to in Qld. What exactly do they do? How is this different to working within the scope of a registered midwife? Im aware that the college is not supportive of the notion of midwives becoming NPs, but Im actually interested in what role they play in maternity care over and above the general run of the mill midwife? Cheers, Tania -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. _ MSN Messenger 7.5 is now out. Download it for FREE here. http://messenger.msn.co.uk -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] The Advertiser today...
I think any midwife who has spent their career in a hospital setting would need 're-wiring' to attend homebirths. Hospital birth is so different to homebirth, and the danger is that midwives bring the hospital and it's guidelines to the home. I don't think it is a case of 'upskilling', just a totally different way of working and hospital midwives have been oppressed and socialised into a particular way of practising. They often lack confidence in their own midwifery skills and women's ability to birth. Rachel - trapped in a hospital with pinging machines and missing homebirth and midwifery. From: Tania Smallwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] The Advertiser today... Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 21:06:12 +0930 Love that term, Macdonaldisation! I also get concerned when I hear of midwives needing to be upskilled to attend 'normal' births, or to give women care in water, etc. I think as a midwife we should all be able to handle the 'normal'. I personally would need upskilling to work in a tertiary institution with all those machines that go 'ping'! Tania -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Belinda Sent: Sunday, 30 October 2005 1:57 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] The Advertiser today... a big part of it is the multi skilling crap which is just a way of getting constant work out an individual which i think is why so many places are against direct mid entry midwives, they cant be used like slaves to work everywhere anywhere anytime. it is an evolving problem and much to do with globalisation and utilising the human resources to the best benefit of corporation which hospitals are fast becoming. The macdonaldisation of society!!! It really worries me Belinda Tania Smallwood wrote: Not just a question for Barb, but anyone who knows about it, I'm curious to know about the Midwife/nurse practitioner that you refer to in Qld. What exactly do they do? How is this different to working within the scope of a registered midwife? I'm aware that the college is not supportive of the notion of midwives becoming NP's, but I'm actually interested in what role they play in maternity care over and above the general run of the mill midwife? Cheers, Tania -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. _ MSN Messenger 7.5 is now out. Download it for FREE here. http://messenger.msn.co.uk -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] The Advertiser today...
Agree with all of that Rachel, and sorry if it seemed I was having a go - not intended at all. What I feel is sad is that what you are talking about is not widely acknowledged, not by the midwives working in the hospital system that I know anyway. They seem to hide behind this notion of needing to be upskilled rather than acknowledging that for many of them, the system they work in has resulted in them becoming deskilled and desensitized to the realities of birth. I like the idea of rewiring! I think I'd need a total motherboard overhaul to work just one shift in a labour and delivery suite. Well done for being able to deliver care to the women who really need it in the system, hats off to you! Tania xxx -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of wump fish Sent: Sunday, 30 October 2005 9:38 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] The Advertiser today... I think any midwife who has spent their career in a hospital setting would need 're-wiring' to attend homebirths. Hospital birth is so different to homebirth, and the danger is that midwives bring the hospital and it's guidelines to the home. I don't think it is a case of 'upskilling', just a totally different way of working and hospital midwives have been oppressed and socialised into a particular way of practising. They often lack confidence in their own midwifery skills and women's ability to birth. Rachel - trapped in a hospital with pinging machines and missing homebirth and midwifery. From: Tania Smallwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] The Advertiser today... Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 21:06:12 +0930 Love that term, Macdonaldisation! I also get concerned when I hear of midwives needing to be upskilled to attend 'normal' births, or to give women care in water, etc. I think as a midwife we should all be able to handle the 'normal'. I personally would need upskilling to work in a tertiary institution with all those machines that go 'ping'! Tania -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Belinda Sent: Sunday, 30 October 2005 1:57 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] The Advertiser today... a big part of it is the multi skilling crap which is just a way of getting constant work out an individual which i think is why so many places are against direct mid entry midwives, they cant be used like slaves to work everywhere anywhere anytime. it is an evolving problem and much to do with globalisation and utilising the human resources to the best benefit of corporation which hospitals are fast becoming. The macdonaldisation of society!!! It really worries me Belinda Tania Smallwood wrote: Not just a question for Barb, but anyone who knows about it, I'm curious to know about the Midwife/nurse practitioner that you refer to in Qld. What exactly do they do? How is this different to working within the scope of a registered midwife? I'm aware that the college is not supportive of the notion of midwives becoming NP's, but I'm actually interested in what role they play in maternity care over and above the general run of the mill midwife? Cheers, Tania -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. _ MSN Messenger 7.5 is now out. Download it for FREE here. http://messenger.msn.co.uk -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] The Advertiser today...
I love the accepted arrogance that people get the best treatments from medical doctoors Time there was a seriens on Iatrogenisis Denise Hynd "Let us support one another, not just in philosophy but in action, for the sake of freedom for all women to choose exactly how and by whom, if by anyone, our bodies will be handled." Linda Hes - Original Message - From: Tania Smallwood To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2005 6:05 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] The Advertiser today... Could this be the thin edge of the wedge do they see this as a way of banning independent midwifery too, or am I just being paranoid? Tania (who is aware that thankfully, we dont have to train as nurses any more to become a midwife, but the reality is that many of us are ) http://www.theadvertiser.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5936,17070060%255E2682,00.html Nursing back-up under attackKARA PHILLIPS, Health Reporter29oct05 INDEPENDENT nurse practitioners, who are not made to report to doctors, should not be able to work in South Australia, the Australian Medical Association says.AMA state president Chris Cain said yesterday there was "growing concern" about nurse practitioners who did not have the full back-up support of a medical team. The comments come just days after The Advertiser reported the chronic GP shortage has reached crisis point in the city's outer suburbs, with doctors claiming GP patient ratios at 1:5521 in the Woodcroft area in the south and 1:7596 around Williamstown in the north. Interstate, particularly in Queensland where doctor shortages are severe, there has been extensive debate about whether to introduce independent nurse practitioners allowed to treat some patients without answering to a doctor or hospital medical team to ease the strain on the system. "We would strongly oppose that move here in SA," Dr Cain said. "If there are doctor shortages, train more doctors don't put people with fewers skills into those positions." Dr Cain stressed the state's existing nurse practitioners, including the state's first paediatric palliative nurse practitioner Sara Fleming who started in her new role this week were not a problem. "There are doctors and audit processes to protect the health of patients." Ms Fleming, a Women's and Children's Hospital nurse, said her role would help cut treatment time and hospital stays for seriously ill children. No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.5/150 - Release Date: 27/10/2005
RE: [ozmidwifery] The Advertiser today...
Tania - I didn't think you were having a go at all! In the UK I was lucky enough to gain experience of community based midwifery-led care (homebirths etc) and midwifery-led care in a large regional referral unit (high risk heaven). It was interesting that I was perceived by colleagues as has having a higher level of skill and kudos when working in hospital on birth suite. Whereas, I felt I had to use a higher level of skill in the community setting. I think part of the problem in hospital based midwifery is where the emphasis is placed in education and updates - for example, CTG interpretation, resus, emergencies etc. There is kudo is being competent in the management of abnormal and emergencies. Unfortunately, there is not the same emphasis placed on the skills involved in facilitating physiological birth and preventing those emergencies from occuring in the first place. Risk management strategies are also back-to-front and result concentrate on the symptoms ignoring the cause. Anyhow... I could rant on forever about risk management and education. So I will shut up for now. Rachel x From: Tania Smallwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] The Advertiser today... Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 10:03:02 +1030 Agree with all of that Rachel, and sorry if it seemed I was having a go - not intended at all. What I feel is sad is that what you are talking about is not widely acknowledged, not by the midwives working in the hospital system that I know anyway. They seem to hide behind this notion of needing to be upskilled rather than acknowledging that for many of them, the system they work in has resulted in them becoming deskilled and desensitized to the realities of birth. I like the idea of rewiring! I think I'd need a total motherboard overhaul to work just one shift in a labour and delivery suite. Well done for being able to deliver care to the women who really need it in the system, hats off to you! Tania xxx -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of wump fish Sent: Sunday, 30 October 2005 9:38 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] The Advertiser today... I think any midwife who has spent their career in a hospital setting would need 're-wiring' to attend homebirths. Hospital birth is so different to homebirth, and the danger is that midwives bring the hospital and it's guidelines to the home. I don't think it is a case of 'upskilling', just a totally different way of working and hospital midwives have been oppressed and socialised into a particular way of practising. They often lack confidence in their own midwifery skills and women's ability to birth. Rachel - trapped in a hospital with pinging machines and missing homebirth and midwifery. From: Tania Smallwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] The Advertiser today... Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 21:06:12 +0930 Love that term, Macdonaldisation! I also get concerned when I hear of midwives needing to be upskilled to attend 'normal' births, or to give women care in water, etc. I think as a midwife we should all be able to handle the 'normal'. I personally would need upskilling to work in a tertiary institution with all those machines that go 'ping'! Tania -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Belinda Sent: Sunday, 30 October 2005 1:57 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] The Advertiser today... a big part of it is the multi skilling crap which is just a way of getting constant work out an individual which i think is why so many places are against direct mid entry midwives, they cant be used like slaves to work everywhere anywhere anytime. it is an evolving problem and much to do with globalisation and utilising the human resources to the best benefit of corporation which hospitals are fast becoming. The macdonaldisation of society!!! It really worries me Belinda Tania Smallwood wrote: Not just a question for Barb, but anyone who knows about it, I'm curious to know about the Midwife/nurse practitioner that you refer to in Qld. What exactly do they do? How is this different to working within the scope of a registered midwife? I'm aware that the college is not supportive of the notion of midwives becoming NP's, but I'm actually interested in what role they play in maternity care over and above the general run of the mill midwife? Cheers, Tania -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. _ MSN Messenger 7.5 is now out
RE: [ozmidwifery] The Advertiser today...
Rachel, working in homebirths makes me very interested in risk management and education. I would appreciate hearing what you have to say, so rave on. Mary M There is kudo is being competent in the management of abnormal and emergencies. Unfortunately, there is not the same emphasis placed on the skills involved in facilitating physiological birth and preventing those emergencies from occuring in the first place. Risk management strategies are also back-to-front and result concentrate on the symptoms ignoring the cause. Anyhow... I could rant on forever about risk management and education. So I will shut up for now. Rachel x -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] The Advertiser today...
Rachel, Please don't 'shut up for now', as you know once you start 'not' saying things it becomes a habit that they never get said at all! Also I enjoy your posts ! I wonder why you aren't attending homebirths here if you enjoy then so much ? There is no money in it (not the way I practice anyway LOL) but if it's where your heart lies then you make do somehow. I work bank at the birth centre to feed the family homebirths in the community to feed my soul ! I totally agree with you, it requires a complete change of mindset when I work for myself. Work in the unit, (and I work in a very lovely liberal unit if you strretch the boundaries of the prescriptive policies )requires my brain to function in a straight line. Alot of it is damage control treating the symptoms which the system often causes. However in my practice my brain works in a circle (if you can understand the metaphor) focuses largely on preventing the problem occurring in the first place. ! Not sure I can explain it but that's how it feels ! With kind regards Brenda Manning www.themidwife.com.au - Original Message - From: wump fish [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2005 12:45 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] The Advertiser today... Tania - I didn't think you were having a go at all! In the UK I was lucky enough to gain experience of community based midwifery-led care (homebirths etc) and midwifery-led care in a large regional referral unit (high risk heaven). It was interesting that I was perceived by colleagues as has having a higher level of skill and kudos when working in hospital on birth suite. Whereas, I felt I had to use a higher level of skill in the community setting. I think part of the problem in hospital based midwifery is where the emphasis is placed in education and updates - for example, CTG interpretation, resus, emergencies etc. There is kudo is being competent in the management of abnormal and emergencies. Unfortunately, there is not the same emphasis placed on the skills involved in facilitating physiological birth and preventing those emergencies from occuring in the first place. Risk management strategies are also back-to-front and result concentrate on the symptoms ignoring the cause. Anyhow... I could rant on forever about risk management and education. So I will shut up for now. Rachel x From: Tania Smallwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] The Advertiser today... Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 10:03:02 +1030 Agree with all of that Rachel, and sorry if it seemed I was having a go - not intended at all. What I feel is sad is that what you are talking about is not widely acknowledged, not by the midwives working in the hospital system that I know anyway. They seem to hide behind this notion of needing to be upskilled rather than acknowledging that for many of them, the system they work in has resulted in them becoming deskilled and desensitized to the realities of birth. I like the idea of rewiring! I think I'd need a total motherboard overhaul to work just one shift in a labour and delivery suite. Well done for being able to deliver care to the women who really need it in the system, hats off to you! Tania xxx -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of wump fish Sent: Sunday, 30 October 2005 9:38 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] The Advertiser today... I think any midwife who has spent their career in a hospital setting would need 're-wiring' to attend homebirths. Hospital birth is so different to homebirth, and the danger is that midwives bring the hospital and it's guidelines to the home. I don't think it is a case of 'upskilling', just a totally different way of working and hospital midwives have been oppressed and socialised into a particular way of practising. They often lack confidence in their own midwifery skills and women's ability to birth. Rachel - trapped in a hospital with pinging machines and missing homebirth and midwifery. From: Tania Smallwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] The Advertiser today... Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 21:06:12 +0930 Love that term, Macdonaldisation! I also get concerned when I hear of midwives needing to be upskilled to attend 'normal' births, or to give women care in water, etc. I think as a midwife we should all be able to handle the 'normal'. I personally would need upskilling to work in a tertiary institution with all those machines that go 'ping'! Tania -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Belinda Sent: Sunday, 30 October 2005 1:57 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] The Advertiser today... a big part of it is the multi
Re: [ozmidwifery] The Advertiser today...
I'm with you on this MM !! Tell us more Rachel. The thoughts are often the same you know, they just come out of our mouths, brains or fingers differently ! With kind regards Brenda Manning www.themidwife.com.au - Original Message - From: Mary Murphy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2005 1:26 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] The Advertiser today... Rachel, working in homebirths makes me very interested in risk management and education. I would appreciate hearing what you have to say, so rave on. Mary M There is kudo is being competent in the management of abnormal and emergencies. Unfortunately, there is not the same emphasis placed on the skills involved in facilitating physiological birth and preventing those emergencies from occuring in the first place. Risk management strategies are also back-to-front and result concentrate on the symptoms ignoring the cause. Anyhow... I could rant on forever about risk management and education. So I will shut up for now. Rachel x -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] The Advertiser today...
Hi Brenda, I know exactly what you mean about thinking in lines and circles! I think this is my big problem. I think in circles in the hospital setting which does not go down too well. As for why I am not attending homebirths. In the UK I attended homebirths funded by the NHS (medicare) and backed-up by the maternity system. I worked in a community team and we covered the on-call between 4 of us. I'm in Queensland now and things are a bit different. If I want to do homebirths I would have to be an independent mw. I don't feel that I know the system here well enough after only 9 months. Also I would have to practise without insurance or back-up or a midwifery team. The hospital setting is very frustrating and I plan to escape within 2 years. Not sure where - research, education. supermarket. Rachel From: brendamanning [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] The Advertiser today... Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 14:11:25 +1100 Rachel, Please don't 'shut up for now', as you know once you start 'not' saying things it becomes a habit that they never get said at all! Also I enjoy your posts ! I wonder why you aren't attending homebirths here if you enjoy then so much ? There is no money in it (not the way I practice anyway LOL) but if it's where your heart lies then you make do somehow. I work bank at the birth centre to feed the family homebirths in the community to feed my soul ! I totally agree with you, it requires a complete change of mindset when I work for myself. Work in the unit, (and I work in a very lovely liberal unit if you strretch the boundaries of the prescriptive policies )requires my brain to function in a straight line. Alot of it is damage control treating the symptoms which the system often causes. However in my practice my brain works in a circle (if you can understand the metaphor) focuses largely on preventing the problem occurring in the first place. ! Not sure I can explain it but that's how it feels ! With kind regards Brenda Manning www.themidwife.com.au - Original Message - From: wump fish [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2005 12:45 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] The Advertiser today... Tania - I didn't think you were having a go at all! In the UK I was lucky enough to gain experience of community based midwifery-led care (homebirths etc) and midwifery-led care in a large regional referral unit (high risk heaven). It was interesting that I was perceived by colleagues as has having a higher level of skill and kudos when working in hospital on birth suite. Whereas, I felt I had to use a higher level of skill in the community setting. I think part of the problem in hospital based midwifery is where the emphasis is placed in education and updates - for example, CTG interpretation, resus, emergencies etc. There is kudo is being competent in the management of abnormal and emergencies. Unfortunately, there is not the same emphasis placed on the skills involved in facilitating physiological birth and preventing those emergencies from occuring in the first place. Risk management strategies are also back-to-front and result concentrate on the symptoms ignoring the cause. Anyhow... I could rant on forever about risk management and education. So I will shut up for now. Rachel x From: Tania Smallwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] The Advertiser today... Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 10:03:02 +1030 Agree with all of that Rachel, and sorry if it seemed I was having a go - not intended at all. What I feel is sad is that what you are talking about is not widely acknowledged, not by the midwives working in the hospital system that I know anyway. They seem to hide behind this notion of needing to be upskilled rather than acknowledging that for many of them, the system they work in has resulted in them becoming deskilled and desensitized to the realities of birth. I like the idea of rewiring! I think I'd need a total motherboard overhaul to work just one shift in a labour and delivery suite. Well done for being able to deliver care to the women who really need it in the system, hats off to you! Tania xxx -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of wump fish Sent: Sunday, 30 October 2005 9:38 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] The Advertiser today... I think any midwife who has spent their career in a hospital setting would need 're-wiring' to attend homebirths. Hospital birth is so different to homebirth, and the danger is that midwives bring the hospital and it's guidelines to the home. I don't think it is a case of 'upskilling', just a totally different way of working and hospital midwives have been oppressed
[ozmidwifery] The Advertiser today...
Could this be the thin edge of the wedgedo they see this as a way of banning independent midwifery too, or am I just being paranoid? Tania (who is aware that thankfully, we dont have to train as nurses any more to become a midwife, but the reality is that many of us are) http://www.theadvertiser.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5936,17070060%255E2682,00.html Nursing back-up under attack KARA PHILLIPS, Health Reporter 29oct05 INDEPENDENT nurse practitioners, who are not made to report to doctors, should not be able to work in South Australia, the Australian Medical Association says. AMA state president Chris Cain said yesterday there was growing concern about nurse practitioners who did not have the full back-up support of a medical team. The comments come just days after The Advertiser reported the chronic GP shortage has reached crisis point in the city's outer suburbs, with doctors claiming GP patient ratios at 1:5521 in the Woodcroft area in the south and 1:7596 around Williamstown in the north. Interstate, particularly in Queensland where doctor shortages are severe, there has been extensive debate about whether to introduce independent nurse practitioners allowed to treat some patients without answering to a doctor or hospital medical team to ease the strain on the system. We would strongly oppose that move here in SA, Dr Cain said. If there are doctor shortages, train more doctors don't put people with fewers skills into those positions. Dr Cain stressed the state's existing nurse practitioners, including the state's first paediatric palliative nurse practitioner Sara Fleming who started in her new role this week were not a problem. There are doctors and audit processes to protect the health of patients. Ms Fleming, a Women's and Children's Hospital nurse, said her role would help cut treatment time and hospital stays for seriously ill children.
Re: [ozmidwifery] The Advertiser today...
that pirce in the paper today re nurse practioners has made our profession take yet another step backwards. the nurse practioners have worked very hard to achieve what they have in this state and they are extremely professional people who are dedicated and overworked like our doctors they too do 12 hour shifts just ask any of them what thier jobs entail. another way the good old medical profession keep nurses and midwives down. regards sharon - Original Message - From: Tania Smallwood To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2005 7:35 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] The Advertiser today... Could this be the thin edge of the wedge do they see this as a way of banning independent midwifery too, or am I just being paranoid? Tania (who is aware that thankfully, we dont have to train as nurses any more to become a midwife, but the reality is that many of us are ) http://www.theadvertiser.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5936,17070060%255E2682,00.html Nursing back-up under attackKARA PHILLIPS, Health Reporter29oct05 INDEPENDENT nurse practitioners, who are not made to report to doctors, should not be able to work in South Australia, the Australian Medical Association says.AMA state president Chris Cain said yesterday there was "growing concern" about nurse practitioners who did not have the full back-up support of a medical team. The comments come just days after The Advertiser reported the chronic GP shortage has reached crisis point in the city's outer suburbs, with doctors claiming GP patient ratios at 1:5521 in the Woodcroft area in the south and 1:7596 around Williamstown in the north. Interstate, particularly in Queensland where doctor shortages are severe, there has been extensive debate about whether to introduce independent nurse practitioners allowed to treat some patients without answering to a doctor or hospital medical team to ease the strain on the system. "We would strongly oppose that move here in SA," Dr Cain said. "If there are doctor shortages, train more doctors don't put people with fewers skills into those positions." Dr Cain stressed the state's existing nurse practitioners, including the state's first paediatric palliative nurse practitioner Sara Fleming who started in her new role this week were not a problem. "There are doctors and audit processes to protect the health of patients." Ms Fleming, a Women's and Children's Hospital nurse, said her role would help cut treatment time and hospital stays for seriously ill children.
