Re: Guthrie's at the breast

2001-08-06 Thread Jackie Mawson 
Title: Re: Guthrie's at the breast



Just wondering if anybody out there is aware of any information on performing guthries on the babies whilst they are at the breast.

It is the best way, as far as Mother and child are concerned. As far as I know, babies are very unlikely to aspirate when they are newborn. It is only when they get older and start talking that aspiration becomes more of a problem – Chimpanzees, gorilla’s, etc, never choke (even as infants) but they also never talk. The tendency for humans to choke has something to do with the ability we have to talk (larger larynx?) and we have a protective mechanism when very small to help avoid this happening – that’s why small children have tiny, high pitched voices, that develop as they grow.

Anyway, I don’t think aspiration is an issue. And doing Guthrie's while breastfeeding is just so much less traumatic for mother and baby (I know, I insisted on it for my 3rd child – the other 2 I didn’t know about it).

Birthing Beautifully,
Jackie Mawson.

Convenor of Birthrites: Healing After Caesarean Inc.
Visit our Website at: http://www.birthrites.org
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Phone: 61 08 9418 8949

Please note I am not a Professional Healthcare Provider, and all opinions given in this email are not to be taken as medical, or legal, advice. Please seek such advice from the relevant professional service.

Email me your postal details for a FREE copy of our quarterly magazine, if you live within Australia - Overseas postage costs are above budget, sorry!

Too many Gods;
so many creeds,
Too many paths
 that wind and
 wind,
When just the art
 of being kind
 Is all the sad
  world needs...
--

Re: Guthrie's at the breast

2001-08-06 Thread TinaPettigrew 

Hi all,

my four babes were BF when Guthrie's test was performed. For babe no 1. 
though, I had to fight to have this done as it was not "accepted practice 
here" as I was told by a grumpy midwife who was to busy to argue with me. She 
TOLD me that some babies became extremely distressed during this time, and 
she felt it better that he be taken away and have it performed in the nursery 
and that they would bring him back once settled. All the more reason I argued 
for me to be present should my babe become distressed, so I refused to have 
the test done in this manner and expressed vigorously my wish to be present 
and hold my baby preferably as he BF for this procedure. I then insisted on a 
"more gentle and empathetic staff member" who could accommodate my wishes to 
perform the test. 

My wishes were eventually respected and a beautiful woman sat with me and my 
babe in our room while performing the Guthries. She came and spoke with me 
before hand, and worked around Matthew's feeds. She was patient and waited 
for him to be settled at the breast first, made sure I was ready and 
comfortable and proceeded with little fuss or fluster!! The midwife's calm in 
this situation was for me paramount in performing the test. For the record, 
Matthew never even so much as whimpered!

A very happy mother (and babe) and midwife!!

Babes 2, 3 and 4 all had their Guthrie's performed at home, in calm and 
comfortably settled and BF. Babe 2, not so much as a squeak, babe 3 cried 
alittle, but found the breast again and was immediately distracted, babe 4 
not a whimper either.

I am a firm advocate of performing Guthries with babes at the breast - with 
babe BF and settled, a warm comfortable room, mother relaxed and calm, 
midwife relaxed and calm in my experience, things generally go very smoothly.

Yours in birth,
Tina Pettigrew
Birthworks
Independent CBE and aspiring B.Mid Midwife.
Convenor, Aust B. Mid Student Collective.

" As we trust the flowers to open to new life
   - So we can trust birth"
Harriette Hartigan.
--- 
--
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Re: Guthrie's at the breast

2001-08-06 Thread Janet Ireland 
Title: Re: Guthrie's at the breast



As with most things its important to adapt to 
situation. No rules rather  chioces, suggestions and informed decisions however 
the practitioner obviously has preferences. I admit I usually end up putting the 
little foot in a bowl of  hot water and then the mother attaches the 
baby and I prick its heel. wait for it to resettle then get the sample . of 
interest I don't collect samples till babe has full breastmilk stool or I have 
waited till cord or with [ lotus birth placenta] has seperated As to aspirating 
what a silly idea who holds a baby at the breast the baby attaches or comes off. 
Ihave had one poor sample that the RCH said had coffee spilt on it didn't 
happen before the post! lol jan   

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Jackie Mawson 
  To: Ozmidwifery List 
  Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 10:28 
  AM
  Subject: Re: Guthrie's at the 
breast
  
  Just wondering if anybody out 
there is aware of any information on performing guthries on the babies 
whilst they are at the breast.It is the best way, as far as Mother and child are 
  concerned. As far as I know, babies are very unlikely to aspirate when 
  they are newborn. It is only when they get older and start talking that 
  aspiration becomes more of a problem – Chimpanzees, gorilla’s, etc, never 
  choke (even as infants) but they also never talk. The tendency for humans to 
  choke has something to do with the ability we have to talk (larger larynx?) 
  and we have a protective mechanism when very small to help avoid this 
  happening – that’s why small children have tiny, high pitched voices, that 
  develop as they grow.Anyway, I don’t think aspiration is an issue. And 
  doing Guthrie's while breastfeeding is just so much less traumatic for mother 
  and baby (I know, I insisted on it for my 3rd child – the other 2 I didn’t 
  know about it).Birthing Beautifully,Jackie Mawson.Convenor 
  of Birthrites: Healing After Caesarean Inc.Visit our Website at: 
  http://www.birthrites.orgEmail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Phone: 61 08 9418 
  8949Please note I am not a Professional Healthcare Provider, and all 
  opinions given in this email are not to be taken as medical, or legal, advice. 
  Please seek such advice from the relevant professional service.Email 
  me your postal details for a FREE copy of our quarterly magazine, if you live 
  within Australia - Overseas postage costs are above budget, sorry!Too 
  many 
  Gods;so 
  many 
  creeds,Too 
  many 
  paths that 
  wind 
  and wind,When 
  just the 
  art of 
  being 
  kind Is 
  all the 
  sad  world 
  needs...--

Re: Guthrie's at the breast

2001-08-07 Thread Rhonda 
Title: Re: Guthrie's at the breast



More useless but interesting information 
--
 
Just a note on the larynx point you made Jackie - 
the speach thing and choking is because at the age of about 18months to 2 years 
the human larynx drops about an inch and a half to two inches allowing the 
development of speach and also allowing us to choke.  This does not drop 
in  monkeys (chimps etc etc) That is why they can't talk and we can.  

 
Therefore, speach becomes more understandable 
at the age of 18months to 2 years and the voice becomes clearer.  
 Have you noticed that at about 18months the words suddenly become clearer 
and the voice changes?   - prior to this drop in position it is harder 
for an infant to vocalise with words and very hard to choke (not impossible but 
unlikely.) 
 
Also, a newborn also does not breath through 
the mouth this is to prevent aspiration of milk when learning to feed.  
Babies breath through their nose until at least a week old often older before 
they "learn" or are able to breath through their mouth.  (That is what we 
were taught)
 
 
Rhonda.
 
 
 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Jackie Mawson 
  To: Ozmidwifery List 
  Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 10:28 
  AM
  Subject: Re: Guthrie's at the 
breast
  
  Just wondering if anybody out 
there is aware of any information on performing guthries on the babies 
whilst they are at the breast.It is the best way, as far as Mother and child are 
  concerned. As far as I know, babies are very unlikely to aspirate when 
  they are newborn. It is only when they get older and start talking that 
  aspiration becomes more of a problem – Chimpanzees, gorilla’s, etc, never 
  choke (even as infants) but they also never talk. The tendency for humans to 
  choke has something to do with the ability we have to talk (larger larynx?) 
  and we have a protective mechanism when very small to help avoid this 
  happening – that’s why small children have tiny, high pitched voices, that 
  develop as they grow.Anyway, I don’t think aspiration is an issue. And 
  doing Guthrie's while breastfeeding is just so much less traumatic for mother 
  and baby (I know, I insisted on it for my 3rd child – the other 2 I didn’t 
  know about it).Birthing Beautifully,Jackie Mawson.Convenor 
  of Birthrites: Healing After Caesarean Inc.Visit our Website at: 
  http://www.birthrites.orgEmail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Phone: 61 08 9418 
  8949Please note I am not a Professional Healthcare Provider, and all 
  opinions given in this email are not to be taken as medical, or legal, advice. 
  Please seek such advice from the relevant professional service.Email 
  me your postal details for a FREE copy of our quarterly magazine, if you live 
  within Australia - Overseas postage costs are above budget, sorry!Too 
  many 
  Gods;so 
  many 
  creeds,Too 
  many 
  paths that 
  wind 
  and wind,When 
  just the 
  art of 
  being 
  kind Is 
  all the 
  sad  world 
  needs...--

Re: Guthrie's at the breast

2001-08-07 Thread Julie Clarke 
Title: Re: Guthrie's at the breast




Hello all,
Regarding Guthries at breast.
I remember years ago a 
breastfeeding counsellor voicing her frustration to me about this practice which 
is usually done on day 5 the day of discharge from hospital and she explained 
that day 6 it's common for breastfeeding counsellors to receive a call from a 
mum saying my baby was feeding ok until we left hospital.  She then went 
onto explain to me that after questioning the mums that this will often coincide 
with rough handling during the guthries with a very distressed baby at the 
breast.
The counsellor suggested that to remedy the situation for mum 
and bub she would often recommend to have a bath with the baby getting the baby 
nice and warm and relaxed and offering it the breast for a "recovery" 
breastfeed.  She claimed that this often worked.  The baby has the 
opportunity to re-discover the breast under relaxed pleasant conditions at home 
in their own bathroom.
I guess it depends on the midwife doing it - if its reasonably 
gentle and baby ok maybe breastfeeding at the same time would be ok - 

hug to all
Julie
 

-Original Message-From: 
Rhonda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; 
Jackie Mawson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Date: 
Tuesday, 7 August 2001 10:57Subject: Re: Guthrie's at the 
breast
More useless but interesting information 
--
 
Just a note on the larynx point you made Jackie 
- the speach thing and choking is because at the age of about 18months to 2 
years the human larynx drops about an inch and a half to two inches 
allowing the development of speach and also allowing us to choke.  
This does not drop in  monkeys (chimps etc etc) That is why they can't 
talk and we can.  
 
Therefore, speach becomes more 
understandable at the age of 18months to 2 years and the voice becomes 
clearer.   Have you noticed that at about 18months the words 
suddenly become clearer and the voice changes?   - prior to this 
drop in position it is harder for an infant to vocalise with words and very 
hard to choke (not impossible but unlikely.) 
 
Also, a newborn also does not breath 
through the mouth this is to prevent aspiration of milk when learning to 
feed.  Babies breath through their nose until at least a week old often 
older before they "learn" or are able to breath through their 
mouth.  (That is what we were taught)
 
 
Rhonda.
 
 
 

- Original Message - 
From: 
Jackie Mawson 
To: Ozmidwifery List 
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 
    10:28 AM
Subject: Re: Guthrie's at the 
breast

Just wondering if anybody 
out there is aware of any information on performing guthries on the 
babies whilst they are at the 
breast.It 
is the best way, as far as Mother and child are concerned. As far as I 
know, babies are very unlikely to aspirate when they are newborn. 
It is only when they get older and start talking that aspiration becomes 
more of a problem – Chimpanzees, gorilla’s, etc, never choke 
(even as infants) but they also never talk. The tendency for humans to 
choke has something to do with the ability we have to talk (larger 
larynx?) and we have a protective mechanism when very small to help 
avoid this happening – that’s why small children have tiny, 
high pitched voices, that develop as they grow.Anyway, I 
don’t think aspiration is an issue. And doing Guthrie's while 
breastfeeding is just so much less traumatic for mother and baby (I 
know, I insisted on it for my 3rd child – the other 2 I 
didn’t know about it).Birthing Beautifully,Jackie 
Mawson.Convenor of Birthrites: Healing After Caesarean 
Inc.Visit our Website at: http://www.birthrites.orgEmail: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Phone: 61 08 9418 8949Please note I am 
not a Professional Healthcare Provider, and all opinions given in this 
email are not to be taken as medical, or legal, advice. Please seek such 
advice from the relevant professional service.Email me your 
postal details for a FREE copy of our quarterly magazine, if you live 
within Australia - Overseas postage costs are above budget, 
sorry!Too many 
Gods;so 
many 
creeds,Too 
many 
paths that 
wind 
and wind,When 
just the 
art of 
being 
kind Is 
all the 
sad  world 
needs...--