Re: [ozmidwifery] Reflux/ chiro
Thanks for that Pinky. I am still generally skeptical, but certainly agree that in all professions or occupations there are some who will have outstanding results! Megan - Original Message - From: Pinky McKay To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 2:34 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Reflux/ chiro Hi Michelle Suzi and Meg I absolutely agree that some babies do have reflux/ colic -I had one baby who vomited and screamed - baby no 3 - reflux wasnt a diagnosis in those days and I lived through it with her in a sling against my bare skin and a poncho over both of us. I actually wasnt worried that she had 'something dreadful' despite the first two being fat happy boys. I do believe allergies contributed - but certainly didnt have Michelle's experience of constipation as well. I would never undermine a mother's claim of 'reflux' -but I do seem to find that aboiut 2/ 3 of babies in my massage classes have been diagnosed AND medicated for reflux so I wonder if some of these are more of an 'unsettled' baby rather than a truly distressed one - there are definitely degrees eg the definition of colic - 3 hours of crying, 3 days a week for 3 weeks - I dont think two hours screaming is any fun for any mum but does she miss out on support if her baby cries less than the definition?. Or are there are other contributing causes to the crying that are simply being palmed off as 'reflux'. I believe what mums say and would especially never question a mum of multiples as having unrealistic expectations as they have comparison of their own previous experience. Perhaps I only see more desperate people and many mums are very isolated - who is taking a screaming baby out? In such cases it isnt easy for a tired, worried mum to see what is a range of baby behaviour when you are adjusting to a whole new life. Re the chiro - I had suggested to this particular mum ( with breech bub) that perhaps a chiro or osteopath would be helpful ( I was thinking more of hip/ nerve pinching) . Could an arm have been up by babys head and 'squashed'?? I havent seen the mum privately to ask this - when I asked did he favour one side/ seem more unsettled on a particular side, she didnt know as according to her, he was always so miserable that she couldnt tell and prescribed reflux meds werent helping. She is a vet herself so made her own choices. The chiro I referred to is paed trained (not many are), married to an osteopath and very gentle with babies -I have heard him speak ( he has spoken to midwives at RWH Melbourne) and seen him work ( on my own child and grandchild who was a gentle waterbirth but commando crawling asymmetrically, using one leg only - pushed off with the opposite leg a couple of days later ?? coincidence or treatment, I guess we wont know but I have seen 'slower' babies crawl the same week as a treatment) . I used to be a skeptic myself and would never refer to anybody I wasn't very confident about- even then I am gentle about suggesting anybody other than MCH: LC or GP - However, I have seen some wonderful results both from this particular chiro and some osteopaths - eg babies who favour one side/ positional turns and in particular one baby who was very 'sicky' dribbly and a very slow feeder (already on bottle before I met him) - baby came without his bib to class and I commented -I didnt know he had been to the chiro. The parents beaming, said, we took him to Braden yesterday and he feeds in twenty minutes now and has stopped vomiting/ dribbling. Pinky - Original Message - From: suzi and brett To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 2:39 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Reflux I have one of those coloured charts too - diary of a mad housewife! I always planned to blow it up and make art - its quite graphic and pretty! We could have an exhibition! mine did help explain to the Child Health nurse that - yes my baby never slept for 45 mins at a time then and hour of crying...for 7 months! I am absolutely convinced now that im more informed that it was REFLUX even though every one said its over diagnosed and mythological at the time. Sitting up, eating solids, general maturation of the oesophageal sphincter all helped and proved retrospectively what the prob was. If only some one had diagnosed it earlier and i had treated with homeopathics (and ive heard a great Bowen therapy technique helps too) I might have had a second baby after all ! Love suzi - Original Message - From: MHOOK To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 1:28 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Reflux I don't know about over-diagnosis- my second baby (now 17) had reflux and it made her first six months the worst of my life. I'd had a perfectly normal time with my first baby, he was unsettled like
Re: [ozmidwifery] Reflux
Hi All, I'm not sure if this has come up on the list before but has anyone else heard of success for reflux/colic from osteopaths? When I was working in Darwin there was an osteopath who had done further studies in treatment for babies, and had had some good success according to the midwives and some of the new mums. Her theory was that the vagus nerve (controls vomiting etc) could be affected during the birth and by some very gentle massage/treatment of the back of the neck that it could be put right. She said that generally it took only 4 treatments and once put right should stay that way. It seems to make sense when you think about the stress put on the neck during instrumental and caesar births (or even normal births when someone restitutes the head the wrong way and then pulls!) Anyway, some of the mums swear by it, they say they had babies that basically didn't sleep and after the first treatment, slept 5 hours straight. Cheers Michelle - Original Message From: MHOOK [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Saturday, 3 February, 2007 12:28:39 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Reflux I don't know about over-diagnosis- my second baby (now 17) had reflux and it made her first six months the worst of my life. I'd had a perfectly normal time with my first baby, he was unsettled like most and woke at night until over 12 months but I considered that that was normal and looked forward to my second child with pleasure and anticipation. It was a nightmare- not hte birth, that was fine, but from about 3 weeks of age she screamed constantly, vomitted even while attached to the breast, never slept for more than 10 minutes at a time day or night- no one understood how terrible it was, she was obviously in pain, poor mite; my toddler was seriously shortchanged because how can you leave a child who is shrieking with pain to go and play with the other one. Just things like the carpet (whole house was carpeted, even the kitchen) being simply filthy from her constant vomiting, which was not projectile but which managed to defeat the towels etc I had strategically placed. The crying got me down dreadfully, this was nothing like I'd experienced with my first child. There was just no way to soothe her. I still have a colour chart I filled out at that time, showing her behaviour in ten minute slots over a week to show the baby health sister- red for unsettled, blue for feeding, green for sleeping etc. That sounds excessive but truly, I felt I needed evidence for people to believe me; they said things like, Oh yes it's difficult with two, in a patronising way as if it was just me not coping with an unsettled baby when I knew it was more than that. We tried all the normal things, positioning, Early childhood centre, paediatrician, medication, nothing worked. Although she was fully breastfed she had the most atrocious constipation, stools like pieces of chalk that had to be drawn out when half expelled because she couldn't get it out. Finally I went to a homeopathic dr and whatever he gave her (smelt like pure alcohol but I was desperate enough to try anything!) fixed the pain overnight. She still vomitted and still was very wakeful but without the constant crying and pain behaviour it was so much easier to cope with. I'd been told it would probably get better when she was standing up and it did, over about a week all the vomitting etc stopped and life became about a thousand times easier. So I think that 'reflux' is very different from 'unsettled baby' but after what I went through I'd be inclined to give any mother who said her baby had reflux the benefit of the doubt, and the offer of a little help. Monica - Original Message - From: Helen and Graham To: ozmidwifery Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 9:22 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Reflux Just found this article whilst surfing the net. I feel anecdotally that both reflux and colic are overdiagnosed. I am a midwife but not a MCH nurse. If it is so common maybe it IS a normal variation..what do you think about it? It just seems to me that some people aren't happy until they have a label and a medicine to treat it with when they have an unsettled baby. Maybe I am being too simplistic about this subject. Interested in the thoughts of some of our online listers. Helen http://www.bubhub.com.au/newsletterdec0601.shtml Reflux is so common it is almost seen as 'normal', or even trivial, and most people just don't understand how difficult life can be for many families, or understand the impact reflux can have on their lives! They may think of it erroneously as 'just a bit of vomiting', or 'just a behavioural issue'. They don't see how it impacts on the child's eating, sleeping, growth, behaviour or quality of life; or on the family's quality of life, relationships between partners, siblings or other children; finances; and even leisure time
Re: [ozmidwifery] Reflux
I have one of those coloured charts too - diary of a mad housewife! I always planned to blow it up and make art - its quite graphic and pretty! We could have an exhibition! mine did help explain to the Child Health nurse that - yes my baby never slept for 45 mins at a time then and hour of crying...for 7 months! I am absolutely convinced now that im more informed that it was REFLUX even though every one said its over diagnosed and mythological at the time. Sitting up, eating solids, general maturation of the oesophageal sphincter all helped and proved retrospectively what the prob was. If only some one had diagnosed it earlier and i had treated with homeopathics (and ive heard a great Bowen therapy technique helps too) I might have had a second baby after all ! Love suzi - Original Message - From: MHOOK To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 1:28 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Reflux I don't know about over-diagnosis- my second baby (now 17) had reflux and it made her first six months the worst of my life. I'd had a perfectly normal time with my first baby, he was unsettled like most and woke at night until over 12 months but I considered that that was normal and looked forward to my second child with pleasure and anticipation. It was a nightmare- not hte birth, that was fine, but from about 3 weeks of age she screamed constantly, vomitted even while attached to the breast, never slept for more than 10 minutes at a time day or night- no one understood how terrible it was, she was obviously in pain, poor mite; my toddler was seriously shortchanged because how can you leave a child who is shrieking with pain to go and play with the other one. Just things like the carpet (whole house was carpeted, even the kitchen) being simply filthy from her constant vomiting, which was not projectile but which managed to defeat the towels etc I had strategically placed. The crying got me down dreadfully, this was nothing like I'd experienced with my first child. There was just no way to soothe her. I still have a colour chart I filled out at that time, showing her behaviour in ten minute slots over a week to show the baby health sister- red for unsettled, blue for feeding, green for sleeping etc. That sounds excessive but truly, I felt I needed evidence for people to believe me; they said things like, Oh yes it's difficult with two, in a patronising way as if it was just me not coping with an unsettled baby when I knew it was more than that. We tried all the normal things, positioning, Early childhood centre, paediatrician, medication, nothing worked. Although she was fully breastfed she had the most atrocious constipation, stools like pieces of chalk that had to be drawn out when half expelled because she couldn't get it out. Finally I went to a homeopathic dr and whatever he gave her (smelt like pure alcohol but I was desperate enough to try anything!) fixed the pain overnight. She still vomitted and still was very wakeful but without the constant crying and pain behaviour it was so much easier to cope with. I'd been told it would probably get better when she was standing up and it did, over about a week all the vomitting etc stopped and life became about a thousand times easier. So I think that 'reflux' is very different from 'unsettled baby' but after what I went through I'd be inclined to give any mother who said her baby had reflux the benefit of the doubt, and the offer of a little help. Monica - Original Message - From: Helen and Graham To: ozmidwifery Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 9:22 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Reflux Just found this article whilst surfing the net. I feel anecdotally that both reflux and colic are overdiagnosed. I am a midwife but not a MCH nurse. If it is so common maybe it IS a normal variation..what do you think about it? It just seems to me that some people aren't happy until they have a label and a medicine to treat it with when they have an unsettled baby. Maybe I am being too simplistic about this subject. Interested in the thoughts of some of our online listers. Helen http://www.bubhub.com.au/newsletterdec0601.shtml Reflux is so common it is almost seen as 'normal', or even trivial, and most people just don't understand how difficult life can be for many families, or understand the impact reflux can have on their lives! They may think of it erroneously as 'just a bit of vomiting', or 'just a behavioural issue'. They don't see how it impacts on the child's eating, sleeping, growth, behaviour or quality of life; or on the family's quality of life, relationships between partners, siblings or other children; finances; and even leisure time. The truth is, only families who have experienced it for themselves really understand. Many families: a.. Have difficulty
Re: [ozmidwifery] Reflux/ chiro
Hi Michelle Suzi and Meg I absolutely agree that some babies do have reflux/ colic -I had one baby who vomited and screamed - baby no 3 - reflux wasnt a diagnosis in those days and I lived through it with her in a sling against my bare skin and a poncho over both of us. I actually wasnt worried that she had 'something dreadful' despite the first two being fat happy boys. I do believe allergies contributed - but certainly didnt have Michelle's experience of constipation as well. I would never undermine a mother's claim of 'reflux' -but I do seem to find that aboiut 2/ 3 of babies in my massage classes have been diagnosed AND medicated for reflux so I wonder if some of these are more of an 'unsettled' baby rather than a truly distressed one - there are definitely degrees eg the definition of colic - 3 hours of crying, 3 days a week for 3 weeks - I dont think two hours screaming is any fun for any mum but does she miss out on support if her baby cries less than the definition?. Or are there are other contributing causes to the crying that are simply being palmed off as 'reflux'. I believe what mums say and would especially never question a mum of multiples as having unrealistic expectations as they have comparison of their own previous experience. Perhaps I only see more desperate people and many mums are very isolated - who is taking a screaming baby out? In such cases it isnt easy for a tired, worried mum to see what is a range of baby behaviour when you are adjusting to a whole new life. Re the chiro - I had suggested to this particular mum ( with breech bub) that perhaps a chiro or osteopath would be helpful ( I was thinking more of hip/ nerve pinching) . Could an arm have been up by babys head and 'squashed'?? I havent seen the mum privately to ask this - when I asked did he favour one side/ seem more unsettled on a particular side, she didnt know as according to her, he was always so miserable that she couldnt tell and prescribed reflux meds werent helping. She is a vet herself so made her own choices. The chiro I referred to is paed trained (not many are), married to an osteopath and very gentle with babies -I have heard him speak ( he has spoken to midwives at RWH Melbourne) and seen him work ( on my own child and grandchild who was a gentle waterbirth but commando crawling asymmetrically, using one leg only - pushed off with the opposite leg a couple of days later ?? coincidence or treatment, I guess we wont know but I have seen 'slower' babies crawl the same week as a treatment) . I used to be a skeptic myself and would never refer to anybody I wasn't very confident about- even then I am gentle about suggesting anybody other than MCH: LC or GP - However, I have seen some wonderful results both from this particular chiro and some osteopaths - eg babies who favour one side/ positional turns and in particular one baby who was very 'sicky' dribbly and a very slow feeder (already on bottle before I met him) - baby came without his bib to class and I commented -I didnt know he had been to the chiro. The parents beaming, said, we took him to Braden yesterday and he feeds in twenty minutes now and has stopped vomiting/ dribbling. Pinky - Original Message - From: suzi and brett To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 2:39 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Reflux I have one of those coloured charts too - diary of a mad housewife! I always planned to blow it up and make art - its quite graphic and pretty! We could have an exhibition! mine did help explain to the Child Health nurse that - yes my baby never slept for 45 mins at a time then and hour of crying...for 7 months! I am absolutely convinced now that im more informed that it was REFLUX even though every one said its over diagnosed and mythological at the time. Sitting up, eating solids, general maturation of the oesophageal sphincter all helped and proved retrospectively what the prob was. If only some one had diagnosed it earlier and i had treated with homeopathics (and ive heard a great Bowen therapy technique helps too) I might have had a second baby after all ! Love suzi - Original Message - From: MHOOK To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 1:28 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Reflux I don't know about over-diagnosis- my second baby (now 17) had reflux and it made her first six months the worst of my life. I'd had a perfectly normal time with my first baby, he was unsettled like most and woke at night until over 12 months but I considered that that was normal and looked forward to my second child with pleasure and anticipation. It was a nightmare- not hte birth, that was fine, but from about 3 weeks of age she screamed constantly, vomitted even while attached to the breast, never slept for more than 10 minutes at a time day or night- no one
RE: [ozmidwifery] Reflux
In my experience as Midwife/LC I have seen some great results from an Osteo who practiced Cranio-Sacral Therapy (CST) on babies and children. I have referred quite a few babies to her with great improvements in suck, overall muscle tone and more settled babies. Only one baby did not return to breastfeeding (was EBM fed by a very committed mother) and a few months later was found to have a salivary gland cyst that required surgery. This Osteo felt that CST was extremely helpful in babies with reflux due to the involvement of the vagal nerve in reflux. I have yet to twist my brain around the science of it, but it works. Mothers who do go are usually at the end of the road with ideas and when it helps, they are so pleased. I have an article written by an Aussie midwife that supports the use of CST. When I eventually unpack the box (moved late Dec) that it is in, I'll have a reference for it if anyone is interested. Cath Palmer -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michelle Windsor Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 12:37 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Reflux Hi All, I'm not sure if this has come up on the list before but has anyone else heard of success for reflux/colic from osteopaths? When I was working in Darwin there was an osteopath who had done further studies in treatment for babies, and had had some good success according to the midwives and some of the new mums. Her theory was that the vagus nerve (controls vomiting etc) could be affected during the birth and by some very gentle massage/treatment of the back of the neck that it could be put right. She said that generally it took only 4 treatments and once put right should stay that way. It seems to make sense when you think about the stress put on the neck during instrumental and caesar births (or even normal births when someone restitutes the head the wrong way and then pulls!) Anyway, some of the mums swear by it, they say they had babies that basically didn't sleep and after the first treatment, slept 5 hours straight. Cheers Michelle - Original Message From: MHOOK [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Saturday, 3 February, 2007 12:28:39 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Reflux I don't know about over-diagnosis- my second baby (now 17) had reflux and it made her first six months the worst of my life. I'd had a perfectly normal time with my first baby, he was unsettled like most and woke at night until over 12 months but I considered that that was normal and looked forward to my second child with pleasure and anticipation. It was a nightmare- not hte birth, that was fine, but from about 3 weeks of age she screamed constantly, vomitted even while attached to the breast, never slept for more than 10 minutes at a time day or night- no one understood how terrible it was, she was obviously in pain, poor mite; my toddler was seriously shortchanged because how can you leave a child who is shrieking with pain to go and play with the other one. Just things like the carpet (whole house was carpeted, even the kitchen) being simply filthy from her constant vomiting, which was not projectile but which managed to defeat the towels etc I had strategically placed. The crying got me down dreadfully, this was nothing like I'd experienced with my first child. There was just no way to soothe her. I still have a colour chart I filled out at that time, showing her behaviour in ten minute slots over a week to show the baby health sister- red for unsettled, blue for feeding, green for sleeping etc. That sounds excessive but truly, I felt I needed evidence for people to believe me; they said things like, Oh yes it's difficult with two, in a patronising way as if it was just me not coping with an unsettled baby when I knew it was more than that. We tried all the normal things, positioning, Early childhood centre, paediatrician, medication, nothing worked. Although she was fully breastfed she had the most atrocious constipation, stools like pieces of chalk that had to be drawn out when half expelled because she couldn't get it out. Finally I went to a homeopathic dr and whatever he gave her (smelt like pure alcohol but I was desperate enough to try anything!) fixed the pain overnight. She still vomitted and still was very wakeful but without the constant crying and pain behaviour it was so much easier to cope with. I'd been told it would probably get better when she was standing up and it did, over about a week all the vomitting etc stopped and life became about a thousand times easier. So I think that 'reflux' is very different from 'unsettled baby' but after what I went through I'd be inclined to give any mother who said her baby had reflux the benefit of the doubt, and the offer of a little help. Monica - Original Message - From: Helen and Graham mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED
Re: [ozmidwifery] Reflux
Helen - I tend to agree - I see many babies who have been 'diagnosed'with reflux - I heard a paed speak ( sorry cant remember his name) who said it was more to do with anxiety/ lack of attunement than a 'stomach' condition -I wouldnt blame parents though as anyone with an unsettled baby would be anxious/ vicious cycle. I have though seen babies settle miraculously' after a little work with parents - teaching baby massage is a very non-intrusive/ non blaming way to help parents become confident at attuning with baby non-verbal cues and thus responding appropriately; also if they do a few tangible things like positioning babies - ie head elevated - I show a lovely position with a pillow between parents bent legs( feet together, knees open, with pillow resting on parents feet), baby facing parent, so baby and parent make good eye contact - babies seem to stop grizzling straight away - and colic holds ; 'colic' massage -I too am a bit sceptical about all the 'wind' that seems to be around; plus a few changes to mums diet ( wonder if some of this is allergies/ food sensitivity - mums tend to fill up on chocolate when they feel stressed with unsettled bubs) and within days babies are much better. perhaps having a label takes away the blame aspect that parents are doing something wrong - I also see babies for whom meds make no difference - eg one this week diagnosed with 'reflux' -I suggested a really good paediatric chiro locally - bub had been breech ( vag birth) and turned out he had a shoulder dislocated - mum also eating loads of dairy. Bub was much calmer after his shoulder was fixed, relaxed and took a full massage that afternoon - the previous session he cried so much he couldnt be massaged at all. I wonder if the 'overdiagnosis' of reflux is a treatment of symptoms not a look at what could be causing the crying and /or vomiting. Pinky - Original Message - From: Helen and Graham To: ozmidwifery Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 9:22 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Reflux Just found this article whilst surfing the net. I feel anecdotally that both reflux and colic are overdiagnosed. I am a midwife but not a MCH nurse. If it is so common maybe it IS a normal variation..what do you think about it? It just seems to me that some people aren't happy until they have a label and a medicine to treat it with when they have an unsettled baby. Maybe I am being too simplistic about this subject. Interested in the thoughts of some of our online listers. Helen http://www.bubhub.com.au/newsletterdec0601.shtml Reflux is so common it is almost seen as 'normal', or even trivial, and most people just don't understand how difficult life can be for many families, or understand the impact reflux can have on their lives! They may think of it erroneously as 'just a bit of vomiting', or 'just a behavioural issue'. They don't see how it impacts on the child's eating, sleeping, growth, behaviour or quality of life; or on the family's quality of life, relationships between partners, siblings or other children; finances; and even leisure time. The truth is, only families who have experienced it for themselves really understand. Many families: a.. Have difficulty getting people to believe just how bad the vomiting and/or the screaming really are b.. receive conflicting and confusing advice c.. become socially isolated d.. feel like failures as parents e.. have family and friends who just didn't understand Even when a baby is suffering from relatively uncomplicated reflux, families often need reassurance, and enjoy talking to someone who understands. For the families whose infants suffer complications, it is even more important that they can talk to other parents, and have the support, reassurance and understanding they need to get through this stressful experience
Re: [ozmidwifery] Reflux
I don't know about over-diagnosis- my second baby (now 17) had reflux and it made her first six months the worst of my life. I'd had a perfectly normal time with my first baby, he was unsettled like most and woke at night until over 12 months but I considered that that was normal and looked forward to my second child with pleasure and anticipation. It was a nightmare- not hte birth, that was fine, but from about 3 weeks of age she screamed constantly, vomitted even while attached to the breast, never slept for more than 10 minutes at a time day or night- no one understood how terrible it was, she was obviously in pain, poor mite; my toddler was seriously shortchanged because how can you leave a child who is shrieking with pain to go and play with the other one. Just things like the carpet (whole house was carpeted, even the kitchen) being simply filthy from her constant vomiting, which was not projectile but which managed to defeat the towels etc I had strategically placed. The crying got me down dreadfully, this was nothing like I'd experienced with my first child. There was just no way to soothe her. I still have a colour chart I filled out at that time, showing her behaviour in ten minute slots over a week to show the baby health sister- red for unsettled, blue for feeding, green for sleeping etc. That sounds excessive but truly, I felt I needed evidence for people to believe me; they said things like, Oh yes it's difficult with two, in a patronising way as if it was just me not coping with an unsettled baby when I knew it was more than that. We tried all the normal things, positioning, Early childhood centre, paediatrician, medication, nothing worked. Although she was fully breastfed she had the most atrocious constipation, stools like pieces of chalk that had to be drawn out when half expelled because she couldn't get it out. Finally I went to a homeopathic dr and whatever he gave her (smelt like pure alcohol but I was desperate enough to try anything!) fixed the pain overnight. She still vomitted and still was very wakeful but without the constant crying and pain behaviour it was so much easier to cope with. I'd been told it would probably get better when she was standing up and it did, over about a week all the vomitting etc stopped and life became about a thousand times easier. So I think that 'reflux' is very different from 'unsettled baby' but after what I went through I'd be inclined to give any mother who said her baby had reflux the benefit of the doubt, and the offer of a little help. Monica - Original Message - From: Helen and Graham To: ozmidwifery Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 9:22 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Reflux Just found this article whilst surfing the net. I feel anecdotally that both reflux and colic are overdiagnosed. I am a midwife but not a MCH nurse. If it is so common maybe it IS a normal variation..what do you think about it? It just seems to me that some people aren't happy until they have a label and a medicine to treat it with when they have an unsettled baby. Maybe I am being too simplistic about this subject. Interested in the thoughts of some of our online listers. Helen http://www.bubhub.com.au/newsletterdec0601.shtml Reflux is so common it is almost seen as 'normal', or even trivial, and most people just don't understand how difficult life can be for many families, or understand the impact reflux can have on their lives! They may think of it erroneously as 'just a bit of vomiting', or 'just a behavioural issue'. They don't see how it impacts on the child's eating, sleeping, growth, behaviour or quality of life; or on the family's quality of life, relationships between partners, siblings or other children; finances; and even leisure time. The truth is, only families who have experienced it for themselves really understand. Many families: a.. Have difficulty getting people to believe just how bad the vomiting and/or the screaming really are b.. receive conflicting and confusing advice c.. become socially isolated d.. feel like failures as parents e.. have family and friends who just didn't understand Even when a baby is suffering from relatively uncomplicated reflux, families often need reassurance, and enjoy talking to someone who understands. For the families whose infants suffer complications, it is even more important that they can talk to other parents, and have the support, reassurance and understanding they need to get through this stressful experience
Re: [ozmidwifery] Reflux
Pinky, Firstly, let me say Pinky, that I have the greatest respect for you and your beliefs, but let me admit straight up that I am very sceptical of chiropracters, particularly those who are happy to manipulate babies. So I must ask, did this baby have any symptoms of a dislocated shoulder? Was it favouring the other arm or not moving it at all? Was it lengthened, disproportionate to the body or other arm, or was there an abnormality in the appearance of the shoulder. I have never seen a baby with a dislocated shoulder, broken clavicle and erbs palsy yes, but no dislocation. I have seen adults with dislocations and they are rather easy to spot and can be fun to replace! I would have been surprised that a breech birth would be associated with a dislocated shoulder. There is a correlation between breech birth and congenital dislocation of the hip, particularly in girls. I am unsure how the mechanisms of breech birth (Hands off the breech) would cause such an injury. Perhaps you can offer me some insight into this case? Thankfully, Megan - Original Message - From: Pinky McKay To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 10:35 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Reflux Helen - I tend to agree - I see many babies who have been 'diagnosed'with reflux - I heard a paed speak ( sorry cant remember his name) who said it was more to do with anxiety/ lack of attunement than a 'stomach' condition -I wouldnt blame parents though as anyone with an unsettled baby would be anxious/ vicious cycle. I have though seen babies settle miraculously' after a little work with parents - teaching baby massage is a very non-intrusive/ non blaming way to help parents become confident at attuning with baby non-verbal cues and thus responding appropriately; also if they do a few tangible things like positioning babies - ie head elevated - I show a lovely position with a pillow between parents bent legs( feet together, knees open, with pillow resting on parents feet), baby facing parent, so baby and parent make good eye contact - babies seem to stop grizzling straight away - and colic holds ; 'colic' massage -I too am a bit sceptical about all the 'wind' that seems to be around; plus a few changes to mums diet ( wonder if some of this is allergies/ food sensitivity - mums tend to fill up on chocolate when they feel stressed with unsettled bubs) and within days babies are much better. perhaps having a label takes away the blame aspect that parents are doing something wrong - I also see babies for whom meds make no difference - eg one this week diagnosed with 'reflux' -I suggested a really good paediatric chiro locally - bub had been breech ( vag birth) and turned out he had a shoulder dislocated - mum also eating loads of dairy. Bub was much calmer after his shoulder was fixed, relaxed and took a full massage that afternoon - the previous session he cried so much he couldnt be massaged at all. I wonder if the 'overdiagnosis' of reflux is a treatment of symptoms not a look at what could be causing the crying and /or vomiting. Pinky - Original Message - From: Helen and Graham To: ozmidwifery Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 9:22 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Reflux Just found this article whilst surfing the net. I feel anecdotally that both reflux and colic are overdiagnosed. I am a midwife but not a MCH nurse. If it is so common maybe it IS a normal variation..what do you think about it? It just seems to me that some people aren't happy until they have a label and a medicine to treat it with when they have an unsettled baby. Maybe I am being too simplistic about this subject. Interested in the thoughts of some of our online listers. Helen http://www.bubhub.com.au/newsletterdec0601.shtml Reflux is so common it is almost seen as 'normal', or even trivial, and most people just don't understand how difficult life can be for many families, or understand the impact reflux can have on their lives! They may think of it erroneously as 'just a bit of vomiting', or 'just a behavioural issue'. They don't see how it impacts on the child's eating, sleeping, growth, behaviour or quality of life; or on the family's quality of life, relationships between partners, siblings or other children; finances; and even leisure time. The truth is, only families who have experienced it for themselves really understand. Many families: a.. Have difficulty getting people to believe just how bad the vomiting and/or the screaming really are b.. receive conflicting and confusing advice c.. become socially isolated d.. feel like failures as parents e.. have family and friends who just didn't understand Even when a baby is suffering from relatively uncomplicated reflux, families often need reassurance
