RE: So, is Silverlight dead yet?
Hah! Yes, I should have put Mobile there. Please don't take that graph as being anything more than my way of informing this discussion that there are many different dimensions to view things through. I also left regular expressions off of that graph, which I apologize to the gods of System.Text for. Darren neimkedarren.nei...@live.com Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 16:04:00 +1000 Subject: Re: So, is Silverlight dead yet? From: p...@paulstovell.com To: ozsilverlight@ozsilverlight.com I notice Mobile is missing from your graph. What are you telling us Darren? :) On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 2:57 PM, Darren Neimke darren.nei...@live.com wrote: As I just posted on Paul's blog, maybe it's all a matter of perspective? Seems logical that within a Silverlight technical group like this that you'd focus on things down at that level of detail. From a different perspective you could easily see a lack of focus on any of these technologies? Here's the type of view I mean: http://twitpic.com/32us7s Darren neimkedarren.nei...@live.com From: m...@miguelmadero.com Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 15:34:52 +1100 Subject: Re: So, is Silverlight dead yet? To: ozsilverlight@ozsilverlight.com Nice post. But I'm not sure MS is pushing that much (or even that little) for WPF internally or externally. On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 1:43 PM, Paul Stovell p...@paulstovell.com wrote: I took the liberty of graphing this: http://www.paulstovell.com/tool-for-the-job On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 12:08 PM, Stephen Price step...@littlevoices.com wrote: Wow. You mean, the right tool for the right job still applies? *feigned shocked look* I've been saying Silverlight is for Apps and HTML is for sites for ages. Nothing changed here. Should be interesting how they clarify the statement. :) On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 9:25 AM, Miguel Madero m...@miguelmadero.com wrote: I like how Shawn puts it, Silverlight is good for Apps; HTML is good for sites. That said, WPF is better for apps. So that leaves a handful of use cases for Silverlight, e.g. Web Apps, need of Mac support, easier deployment (not much different really), WP7 (which could've been just WPF for Phone), other devices (maybe?). On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 11:51 AM, Paul Stovell p...@paulstovell.com wrote: ...at least for non-phones: http://techcrunch.com/2010/10/30/rip-silverlight-on-the-web/ http://www.zdnet.com/blog/microsoft/microsoft-our-strategy-with-silverlight-has-shifted/7834 http://wildermuth.com/2010/10/30/Post-PDC_HTML5_v_Silverlight_Debate Paul ___ ozsilverlight mailing list ozsilverlight@ozsilverlight.com http://prdlxvm0001.codify.net/mailman/listinfo/ozsilverlight -- Miguel A. Madero Reyes www.miguelmadero.com (blog) m...@miguelmadero.com ___ ozsilverlight mailing list ozsilverlight@ozsilverlight.com http://prdlxvm0001.codify.net/mailman/listinfo/ozsilverlight ___ ozsilverlight mailing list ozsilverlight@ozsilverlight.com http://prdlxvm0001.codify.net/mailman/listinfo/ozsilverlight -- Paul Stovell ___ ozsilverlight mailing list ozsilverlight@ozsilverlight.com http://prdlxvm0001.codify.net/mailman/listinfo/ozsilverlight -- Miguel A. Madero Reyes www.miguelmadero.com (blog) m...@miguelmadero.com ___ ozsilverlight mailing list ozsilverlight@ozsilverlight.com http://prdlxvm0001.codify.net/mailman/listinfo/ozsilverlight ___ ozsilverlight mailing list ozsilverlight@ozsilverlight.com http://prdlxvm0001.codify.net/mailman/listinfo/ozsilverlight -- Paul Stovell ___ ozsilverlight mailing list ozsilverlight@ozsilverlight.com http://prdlxvm0001.codify.net/mailman/listinfo/ozsilverlight ___ ozsilverlight mailing list ozsilverlight@ozsilverlight.com http://prdlxvm0001.codify.net/mailman/listinfo/ozsilverlight
Re: So, is Silverlight dead yet?
With all respect Paul Stovell I can't make sense of what your diagrams are saying. I apologize if I'm reading them incorrectly BUT the way I read that diagram your suggesting that with Rays' exodus Silverlight has no champion within MS and it will literally cease to exist?! I guess if you only read blog news articles, which pretty much relay that message, you'd be forgiven for thinking that way. But if you look at the facts MS are doing everything but neglecting Silverlight... Just look at Microsoft's use of Silverlight Penetration Numbers... 1. New Products a) the new Azure portal , b) Windows InTune , c) Lync client are all Silverlight apps d) Silverlight profiling tool in VS - massive investment by MS for Silverlight development d) Lightswitch e) PivotControl - this has massive potential to change the data visualization and mining industry f) etc many others that I'm sure will be announced in the near and far future 2. Deep integration of Silverlight into existing core products - deep Silverlight integration across the business, Live and server products (eg. Sharepoint/ MSCRM / Live Portal / Bing all have strong Silverlight integration) 3. Penetration numbers ~ 96% Flash ~ 69% Silverlight (that's up from 64%) ~ 10% (once you add up all the numbers) http://www.statowl.com/web_browser_usage_by_version.php?limit%5B%5D=ielimit%5B%5D=firefoxlimit%5B%5D=safarilimit%5B%5D=chromelimit%5B%5D=operalimit%5B%5D=netscape Again I apologize if I've miss-read your graphs BUT the way I see it based on the facts in front of me (from Microsoft's announcements and public data) Silverlight is alive and kicking and most importantly has healthy investment from Microsoft! Regards Jose Fajardo -Original Message- From: ozsilverlight-boun...@ozsilverlight.com [mailto:ozsilverlight-boun...@ozsilverlight.com] On Behalf Of ozsilverlight-requ...@ozsilverlight.com Sent: Monday, November 01, 2010 6:22 PM To: ozsilverlight@ozsilverlight.com Subject: ozsilverlight Digest, Vol 15, Issue 8 Send ozsilverlight mailing list submissions to ozsilverlight@ozsilverlight.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://prdlxvm0001.codify.net/mailman/listinfo/ozsilverlight or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to ozsilverlight-requ...@ozsilverlight.com You can reach the person managing the list at ozsilverlight-ow...@ozsilverlight.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of ozsilverlight digest... Today's Topics: 1. Re: So, is Silverlight dead yet? (Miguel Madero) 2. RE: So, is Silverlight dead yet? (Darren Neimke) 3. Re: So, is Silverlight dead yet? (Paul Stovell) -- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 15:34:52 +1100 From: Miguel Madero m...@miguelmadero.com Subject: Re: So, is Silverlight dead yet? To: ozSilverlight ozsilverlight@ozsilverlight.com Message-ID: aanlktinc0xdyf6hexb6zy0pcnpf8x_ensbhyn3iwr...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Nice post. But I'm not sure MS is pushing that much (or even that little) for WPF internally or externally. On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 1:43 PM, Paul Stovell p...@paulstovell.com wrote: I took the liberty of graphing this: http://www.paulstovell.com/tool-for-the-job On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 12:08 PM, Stephen Price step...@littlevoices.comwrote: Wow. You mean, the right tool for the right job still applies? *feigned shocked look* I've been saying Silverlight is for Apps and HTML is for sites for ages. Nothing changed here. Should be interesting how they clarify the statement. :) On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 9:25 AM, Miguel Madero m...@miguelmadero.com wrote: I like how Shawn puts it, Silverlight is good for Apps; HTML is good for sites. That said, WPF is better for apps. So that leaves a handful of use cases for Silverlight, e.g. Web Apps, need of Mac support, easier deployment (not much different really), WP7 (which could've been just WPF for Phone), other devices (maybe?). On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 11:51 AM, Paul Stovell p...@paulstovell.com wrote: ...at least for non-phones: http://techcrunch.com/2010/10/30/rip-silverlight-on-the-web/ http://www.zdnet.com/blog/microsoft/microsoft-our-strategy-with-silve rlight-has-shifted/7834 http://wildermuth.com/2010/10/30/Post-PDC_HTML5_v_Silverlight_Deba te Paul ___ ozsilverlight mailing list ozsilverlight@ozsilverlight.com http://prdlxvm0001.codify.net/mailman/listinfo/ozsilverlight -- Miguel A. Madero Reyes www.miguelmadero.com (blog) m...@miguelmadero.com ___ ozsilverlight mailing list ozsilverlight@ozsilverlight.com http://prdlxvm0001.codify.net
Re: So, is Silverlight dead yet?
Jose, There was a lot of sarcasm in those images. Don't take them literally. The second two charts are my impression of the technologies Microsoft tend to choose. I've actually managed to avoid all of #1 and #2 in your suggestions, so the only Silverlight application I'd ever used from Microsoft was Live Mesh. Paul On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 4:48 PM, Jose Fajardo jose.faja...@cynergysystems.com wrote: With all respect Paul Stovell I can't make sense of what your diagrams are saying. I apologize if I'm reading them incorrectly BUT the way I read that diagram your suggesting that with Rays' exodus Silverlight has no champion within MS and it will literally cease to exist?! I guess if you only read blog news articles, which pretty much relay that message, you'd be forgiven for thinking that way. But if you look at the facts MS are doing everything but neglecting Silverlight... Just look at Microsoft's use of Silverlight Penetration Numbers... 1. New Products a) the new Azure portal , b) Windows InTune , c) Lync client are all Silverlight apps d) Silverlight profiling tool in VS - massive investment by MS for Silverlight development d) Lightswitch e) PivotControl - this has massive potential to change the data visualization and mining industry f) etc many others that I'm sure will be announced in the near and far future 2. Deep integration of Silverlight into existing core products - deep Silverlight integration across the business, Live and server products (eg. Sharepoint/ MSCRM / Live Portal / Bing all have strong Silverlight integration) 3. Penetration numbers ~ 96% Flash ~ 69% Silverlight (that’s up from 64%) ~ 10% (once you add up all the numbers) http://www.statowl.com/web_browser_usage_by_version.php?limit%5B%5D=ielimit%5B%5D=firefoxlimit%5B%5D=safarilimit%5B%5D=chromelimit%5B%5D=operalimit%5B%5D=netscape Again I apologize if I've miss-read your graphs BUT the way I see it based on the facts in front of me (from Microsoft's announcements and public data) Silverlight is alive and kicking and most importantly has healthy investment from Microsoft! Regards Jose Fajardo -Original Message- From: ozsilverlight-boun...@ozsilverlight.com [ mailto:ozsilverlight-boun...@ozsilverlight.comozsilverlight-boun...@ozsilverlight.com] On Behalf Of ozsilverlight-requ...@ozsilverlight.com Sent: Monday, November 01, 2010 6:22 PM To: ozsilverlight@ozsilverlight.com Subject: ozsilverlight Digest, Vol 15, Issue 8 Send ozsilverlight mailing list submissions to ozsilverlight@ozsilverlight.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://prdlxvm0001.codify.net/mailman/listinfo/ozsilverlight or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to ozsilverlight-requ...@ozsilverlight.com You can reach the person managing the list at ozsilverlight-ow...@ozsilverlight.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of ozsilverlight digest... Today's Topics: 1. Re: So, is Silverlight dead yet? (Miguel Madero) 2. RE: So, is Silverlight dead yet? (Darren Neimke) 3. Re: So, is Silverlight dead yet? (Paul Stovell) -- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 15:34:52 +1100 From: Miguel Madero m...@miguelmadero.com Subject: Re: So, is Silverlight dead yet? To: ozSilverlight ozsilverlight@ozsilverlight.com Message-ID: aanlktinc0xdyf6hexb6zy0pcnpf8x_ensbhyn3iwr...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Nice post. But I'm not sure MS is pushing that much (or even that little) for WPF internally or externally. On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 1:43 PM, Paul Stovell p...@paulstovell.com wrote: I took the liberty of graphing this: http://www.paulstovell.com/tool-for-the-job On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 12:08 PM, Stephen Price step...@littlevoices.com wrote: Wow. You mean, the right tool for the right job still applies? *feigned shocked look* I've been saying Silverlight is for Apps and HTML is for sites for ages. Nothing changed here. Should be interesting how they clarify the statement. :) On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 9:25 AM, Miguel Madero m...@miguelmadero.com wrote: I like how Shawn puts it, Silverlight is good for Apps; HTML is good for sites. That said, WPF is better for apps. So that leaves a handful of use cases for Silverlight, e.g. Web Apps, need of Mac support, easier deployment (not much different really), WP7 (which could've been just WPF for Phone), other devices (maybe?). On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 11:51 AM, Paul Stovell p...@paulstovell.com wrote: ...at least for non-phones: http://techcrunch.com/2010/10/30/rip-silverlight-on-the-web/ http://www.zdnet.com/blog/microsoft
RE: So, is Silverlight dead yet?
He meant to post this image for his own perspective: http://tinypic.com/r/2hekmlc/7 I say let's stop speculating and get on with the show. Worst case we can rename this list 'ozHTML5' From: ozsilverlight-boun...@ozsilverlight.com [mailto:ozsilverlight-boun...@ozsilverlight.com] On Behalf Of Paul Stovell Sent: Monday, 1 November 2010 5:57 PM To: ozSilverlight Subject: Re: So, is Silverlight dead yet? Jose, There was a lot of sarcasm in those images. Don't take them literally. The second two charts are my impression of the technologies Microsoft tend to choose. I've actually managed to avoid all of #1 and #2 in your suggestions, so the only Silverlight application I'd ever used from Microsoft was Live Mesh. Paul On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 4:48 PM, Jose Fajardo jose.faja...@cynergysystems.com wrote: With all respect Paul Stovell I can't make sense of what your diagrams are saying. I apologize if I'm reading them incorrectly BUT the way I read that diagram your suggesting that with Rays' exodus Silverlight has no champion within MS and it will literally cease to exist?! I guess if you only read blog news articles, which pretty much relay that message, you'd be forgiven for thinking that way. But if you look at the facts MS are doing everything but neglecting Silverlight... Just look at Microsoft's use of Silverlight Penetration Numbers... 1. New Products a) the new Azure portal , b) Windows InTune , c) Lync client are all Silverlight apps d) Silverlight profiling tool in VS - massive investment by MS for Silverlight development d) Lightswitch e) PivotControl - this has massive potential to change the data visualization and mining industry f) etc many others that I'm sure will be announced in the near and far future 2. Deep integration of Silverlight into existing core products - deep Silverlight integration across the business, Live and server products (eg. Sharepoint/ MSCRM / Live Portal / Bing all have strong Silverlight integration) 3. Penetration numbers ~ 96% Flash ~ 69% Silverlight (that's up from 64%) ~ 10% (once you add up all the numbers) http://www.statowl.com/web_browser_usage_by_version.php?limit%5B%5D=ie http://www.statowl.com/web_browser_usage_by_version.php?limit%5B%5D=ielimi t%5B%5D=firefoxlimit%5B%5D=safarilimit%5B%5D=chromelimit%5B%5D=operalimi t%5B%5D=netscape limit%5B%5D=firefoxlimit%5B%5D=safarilimit%5B%5D=chromelimit%5B%5D=opera limit%5B%5D=netscape Again I apologize if I've miss-read your graphs BUT the way I see it based on the facts in front of me (from Microsoft's announcements and public data) Silverlight is alive and kicking and most importantly has healthy investment from Microsoft! Regards Jose Fajardo -Original Message- From: ozsilverlight-boun...@ozsilverlight.com [mailto:ozsilverlight-boun...@ozsilverlight.com] On Behalf Of ozsilverlight-requ...@ozsilverlight.com Sent: Monday, November 01, 2010 6:22 PM To: ozsilverlight@ozsilverlight.com Subject: ozsilverlight Digest, Vol 15, Issue 8 Send ozsilverlight mailing list submissions to ozsilverlight@ozsilverlight.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://prdlxvm0001.codify.net/mailman/listinfo/ozsilverlight or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to ozsilverlight-requ...@ozsilverlight.com You can reach the person managing the list at ozsilverlight-ow...@ozsilverlight.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of ozsilverlight digest... Today's Topics: 1. Re: So, is Silverlight dead yet? (Miguel Madero) 2. RE: So, is Silverlight dead yet? (Darren Neimke) 3. Re: So, is Silverlight dead yet? (Paul Stovell) -- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 15:34:52 +1100 From: Miguel Madero m...@miguelmadero.com Subject: Re: So, is Silverlight dead yet? To: ozSilverlight ozsilverlight@ozsilverlight.com Message-ID: aanlktinc0xdyf6hexb6zy0pcnpf8x_ensbhyn3iwr...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Nice post. But I'm not sure MS is pushing that much (or even that little) for WPF internally or externally. On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 1:43 PM, Paul Stovell p...@paulstovell.com wrote: I took the liberty of graphing this: http://www.paulstovell.com/tool-for-the-job On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 12:08 PM, Stephen Price step...@littlevoices.comwrote: Wow. You mean, the right tool for the right job still applies? *feigned shocked look* I've been saying Silverlight is for Apps and HTML is for sites for ages. Nothing changed here. Should be interesting how they clarify the statement. :) On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 9:25 AM, Miguel Madero m...@miguelmadero.com wrote: I like how Shawn puts it, Silverlight is good for Apps; HTML is good for sites. That said, WPF is better
Re: So, is Silverlight dead yet?
I think Muglia wishes he had kept his mouth shut. There will be a statement coming out in the next couple of days to clarify. On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 11:51 AM, Paul Stovell p...@paulstovell.com wrote: ...at least for non-phones: http://techcrunch.com/2010/10/30/rip-silverlight-on-the-web/ http://techcrunch.com/2010/10/30/rip-silverlight-on-the-web/ http://www.zdnet.com/blog/microsoft/microsoft-our-strategy-with-silverlight-has-shifted/7834 http://techcrunch.com/2010/10/30/rip-silverlight-on-the-web/ http://wildermuth.com/2010/10/30/Post-PDC_HTML5_v_Silverlight_Debate http://wildermuth.com/2010/10/30/Post-PDC_HTML5_v_Silverlight_DebatePaul ___ ozsilverlight mailing list ozsilverlight@ozsilverlight.com http://prdlxvm0001.codify.net/mailman/listinfo/ozsilverlight ___ ozsilverlight mailing list ozsilverlight@ozsilverlight.com http://prdlxvm0001.codify.net/mailman/listinfo/ozsilverlight
Re: So, is Silverlight dead yet?
What has changed? I keep reading that their plan for Silverlight was world domination but they have now toned that down to a few niche areas. I never was under the impression that MS planned for Silverlight to be the be all and end all of web development. Craig. On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 1:09 PM, Deepak Kapoor dee...@deepakkapoor.netwrote: Or we could take it at its face value and accept that strategy around Silverlight has indeed changed. My 2 cents. Deepak On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 12:42 PM, Joseph jos...@learnwpf.com wrote: Yeah - it will be interesting to see how the spindoctors work this without the president of devdiv losing face. Joseph On 01/11/2010, at 11:09 AM, Craig van Nieuwkerk crai...@gmail.com wrote: I think Muglia wishes he had kept his mouth shut. There will be a statement coming out in the next couple of days to clarify. On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 11:51 AM, Paul Stovell p...@paulstovell.com p...@paulstovell.com wrote: ...at least for non-phones: http://techcrunch.com/2010/10/30/rip-silverlight-on-the-web/ http://techcrunch.com/2010/10/30/rip-silverlight-on-the-web/ http://techcrunch.com/2010/10/30/rip-silverlight-on-the-web/http://www.zdnet.com/blog/microsoft/microsoft-our-strategy-with-silverlight-has-shifted/7834 http://www.zdnet.com/blog/microsoft/microsoft-our-strategy-with-silverlight-has-shifted/7834 http://techcrunch.com/2010/10/30/rip-silverlight-on-the-web/http://wildermuth.com/2010/10/30/Post-PDC_HTML5_v_Silverlight_Debate http://wildermuth.com/2010/10/30/Post-PDC_HTML5_v_Silverlight_Debate http://wildermuth.com/2010/10/30/Post-PDC_HTML5_v_Silverlight_DebatePaul ___ ozsilverlight mailing list ozsilverlight@ozsilverlight.comozsilverlight@ozsilverlight.com http://prdlxvm0001.codify.net/mailman/listinfo/ozsilverlight http://prdlxvm0001.codify.net/mailman/listinfo/ozsilverlight ___ ozsilverlight mailing list ozsilverlight@ozsilverlight.com http://prdlxvm0001.codify.net/mailman/listinfo/ozsilverlight ___ ozsilverlight mailing list ozsilverlight@ozsilverlight.com http://prdlxvm0001.codify.net/mailman/listinfo/ozsilverlight ___ ozsilverlight mailing list ozsilverlight@ozsilverlight.com http://prdlxvm0001.codify.net/mailman/listinfo/ozsilverlight ___ ozsilverlight mailing list ozsilverlight@ozsilverlight.com http://prdlxvm0001.codify.net/mailman/listinfo/ozsilverlight
RE: So, is Silverlight dead yet?
There's a couple of things here that I think are really, really sad. Firstly, a department within Microsoft comes out at an event, and they use plain English to show that they are supporting an exciting new technology. Next, a couple of groups - who make money from eyeballs - come out with inflammatory comments about what has been said. Finally, people like *you* (whomever is reading this right now) give justification to the comments made by those groups by going on about it. So in short, I don't really care who Mary Foley or TechCrunch are, or what qualifies them to publish stories with such an audacious and misleading title as: Microsoft: Our strategy with Silverlight has shiftedEvery minute and therefore money (via our eyeballs) we give to Mary and TechCrunch, is a minute that is not spent working out how to get the best out of these 2 technologiesThink about the people who are writing about this debate (debate? really?) and ask yourself what their motive is for writing in the first place Darren neimkedarren.nei...@live.com Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 10:51:38 +1000 Subject: So, is Silverlight dead yet? From: p...@paulstovell.com To: ozsilverlight@ozsilverlight.com ...at least for non-phones: http://techcrunch.com/2010/10/30/rip-silverlight-on-the-web/http://www.zdnet.com/blog/microsoft/microsoft-our-strategy-with-silverlight-has-shifted/7834 http://wildermuth.com/2010/10/30/Post-PDC_HTML5_v_Silverlight_Debate Paul ___ ozsilverlight mailing list ozsilverlight@ozsilverlight.com http://prdlxvm0001.codify.net/mailman/listinfo/ozsilverlight ___ ozsilverlight mailing list ozsilverlight@ozsilverlight.com http://prdlxvm0001.codify.net/mailman/listinfo/ozsilverlight
Re: So, is Silverlight dead yet?
I agree. This whole Silverlight debate is a beat up over nothing. On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 1:20 PM, Darren Neimke darren.nei...@live.comwrote: There's a couple of things here that I think are really, really sad. Firstly, a department within Microsoft comes out at an event, and they use plain English to show that they are supporting an exciting new technology. Next, a couple of groups - who make money from eyeballs - come out with inflammatory comments about what has been said. Finally, people like *you* (whomever is reading this right now) give justification to the comments made by those groups by going on about it. So in short, 1. I don't really care who Mary Foley or TechCrunch are, or what qualifies them to publish stories with such an audacious and misleading title as: Microsoft: Our strategy with Silverlight has shifted 2. Every minute and therefore money (via our eyeballs) we give to Mary and TechCrunch, is a minute that is not spent working out how to get the best out of these 2 technologies 3. Think about the people who are writing about this debate (debate? really?) and ask yourself what their motive is for writing in the first place Darren Neimke darren.nei...@live.com -- Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 10:51:38 +1000 Subject: So, is Silverlight dead yet? From: p...@paulstovell.com To: ozsilverlight@ozsilverlight.com ...at least for non-phones: http://techcrunch.com/2010/10/30/rip-silverlight-on-the-web/ http://techcrunch.com/2010/10/30/rip-silverlight-on-the-web/ http://www.zdnet.com/blog/microsoft/microsoft-our-strategy-with-silverlight-has-shifted/7834 http://techcrunch.com/2010/10/30/rip-silverlight-on-the-web/ http://wildermuth.com/2010/10/30/Post-PDC_HTML5_v_Silverlight_Debate http://wildermuth.com/2010/10/30/Post-PDC_HTML5_v_Silverlight_DebatePaul ___ ozsilverlight mailing list ozsilverlight@ozsilverlight.com http://prdlxvm0001.codify.net/mailman/listinfo/ozsilverlight ___ ozsilverlight mailing list ozsilverlight@ozsilverlight.com http://prdlxvm0001.codify.net/mailman/listinfo/ozsilverlight ___ ozsilverlight mailing list ozsilverlight@ozsilverlight.com http://prdlxvm0001.codify.net/mailman/listinfo/ozsilverlight
RE: So, is Silverlight dead yet?
I personally am keeping quiet on the public front because 1. I'm smart enough to know that questionable people will try to spin whatever I say into a HTML versus Silverlight argument. 2. I know that MS will respond with more solid messaging that reaffirms their commitment to Silverlight into the future. It's not going anywhere People have taken some of Bob Muglias statements and completely ignored others. Journalists I can understand why they'd do it, to get sensationalist stories and page clicks. BUT tech people whom I will not mention, who pride themselves as knowledgeable people that do due diligence as part of their day jobs, why they have skipped some of these quotes is beyond me. To come to Silverlight is dead conclusions based on 1 or two choice quotes, poor form (especially if you do the research)!! And to even think that a change in direction for Silverlight signifies it's death, again its beyond me how you can conclude that. Companies all the time re-jig there vision and mission as there companies mature. Silverlight is maturing it's a good thing! Microsoft's response will set the messaging straight, then you will get the people that will either believe MS's message or not. Those that don't believe are probably those that have never believed in the power of Silverlight, and there's not much we can do about them. Me I continue to base my career on this technology and I am still 110% confident on it being a dominant and rich technology for many, many years to come! Note: This is the one and only email from me on this, don't expect me to reply to anyone until MS comes out with their response! Jose Fajardo Note: The information contained in this message and any attachment to it is privileged, confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by replying to the message, and please delete it from your system. Thank you. Cynergy Systems. ___ ozsilverlight mailing list ozsilverlight@ozsilverlight.com http://prdlxvm0001.codify.net/mailman/listinfo/ozsilverlight
RE: So, is Silverlight dead yet?
Yes some of the SL articles and blogs out there are inflammatory and miss the point. However it is disturbing when one year PDC is all about Silverlight and the following year the technology becomes a footnote and now HTML5 is all the rage. It just makes MS look erratic and reactive - it's hard to feel comfortable about their vision when great technologies like Silverlight fall out of focus so fast. Why the hell does PDC have to be so single minded? Why not spread the love across HTML5, Silverlight and even WPF? Seems all MS does these days is cheerlead the next big thing while disregarding the here and now. If PDC had given a little more love (i.e. sessions) to Silverlight and put out a clear message that Silverlight still has a place on PC/browser (e.g. Enterprise LOB apps), then there wouldn't be all this fuss. - Paul Du Bois From: ozsilverlight-boun...@ozsilverlight.com [mailto:ozsilverlight-boun...@ozsilverlight.com] On Behalf Of Darren Neimke Sent: Monday, 1 November 2010 12:27 PM To: ozsilverlight@ozsilverlight.com Subject: RE: So, is Silverlight dead yet? It's worse than that. If anything, think about what *we've* effectively just told Microsoft: If you ever dare to try to tell us the truth, or give us information which is in the least bit honest, we will beat you up with a fu#$ing great big stick! Darren Neimke darren.nei...@live.commailto:darren.nei...@live.com From: crai...@gmail.com Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 13:24:34 +1100 Subject: Re: So, is Silverlight dead yet? To: ozsilverlight@ozsilverlight.com I agree. This whole Silverlight debate is a beat up over nothing. On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 1:20 PM, Darren Neimke darren.nei...@live.commailto:darren.nei...@live.com wrote: There's a couple of things here that I think are really, really sad. Firstly, a department within Microsoft comes out at an event, and they use plain English to show that they are supporting an exciting new technology. Next, a couple of groups - who make money from eyeballs - come out with inflammatory comments about what has been said. Finally, people like *you* (whomever is reading this right now) give justification to the comments made by those groups by going on about it. So in short, 1. I don't really care who Mary Foley or TechCrunch are, or what qualifies them to publish stories with such an audacious and misleading title as: Microsoft: Our strategy with Silverlight has shifted 2. Every minute and therefore money (via our eyeballs) we give to Mary and TechCrunch, is a minute that is not spent working out how to get the best out of these 2 technologies 3. Think about the people who are writing about this debate (debate? really?) and ask yourself what their motive is for writing in the first place Darren Neimke darren.nei...@live.commailto:darren.nei...@live.com Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 10:51:38 +1000 Subject: So, is Silverlight dead yet? From: p...@paulstovell.commailto:p...@paulstovell.com To: ozsilverlight@ozsilverlight.commailto:ozsilverlight@ozsilverlight.com ...at least for non-phones: http://techcrunch.com/2010/10/30/rip-silverlight-on-the-web/ http://www.zdnet.com/blog/microsoft/microsoft-our-strategy-with-silverlight-has-shifted/7834 http://wildermuth.com/2010/10/30/Post-PDC_HTML5_v_Silverlight_Debate Paul ___ ozsilverlight mailing list ozsilverlight@ozsilverlight.commailto:ozsilverlight@ozsilverlight.com http://prdlxvm0001.codify.net/mailman/listinfo/ozsilverlight ___ ozsilverlight mailing list ozsilverlight@ozsilverlight.commailto:ozsilverlight@ozsilverlight.com http://prdlxvm0001.codify.net/mailman/listinfo/ozsilverlight ___ ozsilverlight mailing list ozsilverlight@ozsilverlight.com http://prdlxvm0001.codify.net/mailman/listinfo/ozsilverlight ___ ozsilverlight mailing list ozsilverlight@ozsilverlight.com http://prdlxvm0001.codify.net/mailman/listinfo/ozsilverlight
RE: So, is Silverlight dead yet?
How do you form those opinions? I start by learning what not to listen to. Darren neimkedarren.nei...@live.com Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 13:06:24 +1000 Subject: Re: So, is Silverlight dead yet? From: p...@paulstovell.com To: ozsilverlight@ozsilverlight.com Hi Darren, How do you form those opinions? Do you ignore the quote from Bob Muglia completely (what does a Microsoft VP know about anything Microsoft makes anyway?), or do you just ignore the opinion pieces over the top of it? We're in such a vendor-dominated ecosystem, I worry that regardless of what we think about the technology, it's the opinions in the market that matter most when deciding whether something is a good long-term bet. Paul On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 1:01 PM, Darren Neimke darren.nei...@live.com wrote: Thanks Scott, I haven't read all of your reply yet, but I did skim through it quickly. By the way, I knew that you'd win the award for the longest answer :-) My judgement is that, regardless of what the Win8, 9, or 10 team thinks. Regardless of what Mary, Peter and Paul think. At the end of the day, it's only my opinion that really matters to me - and I feel perfectly capable of having a clear view based on what I've seen and heard for myself. However, I do accept that there will be people - both inside and outside of Microsoft - who do feel the need to be given their opinions by the aforementioned crowd. Darren neimkedarren.nei...@live.com CC: ozsilverlight@ozsilverlight.com From: scott.bar...@gmail.com Subject: Re: So, is Silverlight dead yet? Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 12:52:46 +1000 To: ozsilverlight@ozsilverlight.com I guess you can believe the below, clench your fists and sing in a righteous voice viva la silverlight walk away thinking all this PR and community aggravation is misguided and that the highest ranked executive aside from ballmer himself got it wrong despite being briefed on silverlight every 3 months ranging on topics from ubiquity to roadmap selection criteria. Sure I can buy that but to sit and swallow that this is all just a misguided youth getting all sugary high from some bad journalists and how blind loyalty to the Microsoft ux strategy that has yet to really be shown despite constant signs of abandonment throughout the last 2 years is now a taboo topic of choice... Yeah that I can't buy just yet. Win8 team don't want silverlight. I want it, we all on this list want it. Wpf is dead, I love working with wpf and I do so very day and think myself lucky .. But it's dead in terms of marketing and future investment.. The reality is this, right now the eyeball economy is bring used by factions internally as a beating stick on why se should or shouldn't continue to invest - I've personally seen 3 separate threads leaked with that pulse in place. Inside the teams we don't get to see data about how you all adopted it etc and so public opinion would often sway decisions ... As pathetic as that sounds. I sang loud and clear wpf is dead, journos picked up on it and ran with it. A month later the wpf team are working hard to proove my theories wrong. It's not like it's the first hey heard about it... It just finally got public momentum. As for Microsoft learning that the public can't be trusted with honesty? Hate to be the one that breaks this to all but that's the default posture held by majority of Microsoft teams.. Hence why MVP summits are often just a mix/pdc circle jerk with a different name.. Hate this all u like but this is doing a lot of good internally on silverlight vs HTML5 budget forecasts and resource allocations for the future.. Which means more toys for you all to play with if it sways to silverlights favor. There isn't an unlimited supply of engineers / marketing inside Microsoft .. Internally it cab become a zero sum game ;) --Sent from my mini iPad nano(excuse my spilling and grammar as I have giant man like fingers and this device as small keys) On 01/11/2010, at 12:27 PM, Darren Neimke darren.nei...@live.com wrote: It's worse than that. If anything, think about what *we've* effectively just told Microsoft: If you ever dare to try to tell us the truth, or give us information which is in the least bit honest, we will beat you up with a fu#$ing great big stick! Darren neimkedarren.nei...@live.com From: crai...@gmail.com Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 13:24:34 +1100 Subject: Re: So, is Silverlight dead yet? To: ozsilverlight@ozsilverlight.com I agree. This whole Silverlight debate is a beat up over nothing. On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 1:20 PM, Darren Neimke darren.nei...@live.com wrote: There's a couple of things here that I think are really, really sad. Firstly, a department within Microsoft comes out at an event, and they use plain English to show that they are supporting an exciting new technology. Next, a couple of groups - who make money from eyeballs - come out with inflammatory comments about what has been said
RE: So, is Silverlight dead yet?
As I just posted on Paul's blog, maybe it's all a matter of perspective? Seems logical that within a Silverlight technical group like this that you'd focus on things down at that level of detail. From a different perspective you could easily see a lack of focus on any of these technologies? Here's the type of view I mean: http://twitpic.com/32us7s Darren neimkedarren.nei...@live.com From: m...@miguelmadero.com Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 15:34:52 +1100 Subject: Re: So, is Silverlight dead yet? To: ozsilverlight@ozsilverlight.com Nice post. But I'm not sure MS is pushing that much (or even that little) for WPF internally or externally. On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 1:43 PM, Paul Stovell p...@paulstovell.com wrote: I took the liberty of graphing this: http://www.paulstovell.com/tool-for-the-job On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 12:08 PM, Stephen Price step...@littlevoices.com wrote: Wow. You mean, the right tool for the right job still applies? *feigned shocked look* I've been saying Silverlight is for Apps and HTML is for sites for ages. Nothing changed here. Should be interesting how they clarify the statement. :) On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 9:25 AM, Miguel Madero m...@miguelmadero.com wrote: I like how Shawn puts it, Silverlight is good for Apps; HTML is good for sites. That said, WPF is better for apps. So that leaves a handful of use cases for Silverlight, e.g. Web Apps, need of Mac support, easier deployment (not much different really), WP7 (which could've been just WPF for Phone), other devices (maybe?). On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 11:51 AM, Paul Stovell p...@paulstovell.com wrote: ...at least for non-phones: http://techcrunch.com/2010/10/30/rip-silverlight-on-the-web/ http://www.zdnet.com/blog/microsoft/microsoft-our-strategy-with-silverlight-has-shifted/7834 http://wildermuth.com/2010/10/30/Post-PDC_HTML5_v_Silverlight_Debate Paul ___ ozsilverlight mailing list ozsilverlight@ozsilverlight.com http://prdlxvm0001.codify.net/mailman/listinfo/ozsilverlight -- Miguel A. Madero Reyes www.miguelmadero.com (blog) m...@miguelmadero.com ___ ozsilverlight mailing list ozsilverlight@ozsilverlight.com http://prdlxvm0001.codify.net/mailman/listinfo/ozsilverlight ___ ozsilverlight mailing list ozsilverlight@ozsilverlight.com http://prdlxvm0001.codify.net/mailman/listinfo/ozsilverlight -- Paul Stovell ___ ozsilverlight mailing list ozsilverlight@ozsilverlight.com http://prdlxvm0001.codify.net/mailman/listinfo/ozsilverlight -- Miguel A. Madero Reyes www.miguelmadero.com (blog) m...@miguelmadero.com ___ ozsilverlight mailing list ozsilverlight@ozsilverlight.com http://prdlxvm0001.codify.net/mailman/listinfo/ozsilverlight ___ ozsilverlight mailing list ozsilverlight@ozsilverlight.com http://prdlxvm0001.codify.net/mailman/listinfo/ozsilverlight
