PalmOS Developer Certification
hi, Anyone knows when (if ever) be the PalmOS Developer Certification event? I recall someone here was asking about that some time ago. Any closer information by any chance? Regards, -- Daddy, what Formatting drive C: means?... Marcin http://wfmh.org.pl/carlos/ -- For information on using the PalmSource Developer Forums, or to unsubscribe, please see http://www.palmos.com/dev/support/forums/
Re: Developer Certification (modeless dialogs)
I agree with this, but I discovered that 160*160 modal screens look ugly on the Alphasmart Dana (560*160 device, but it defaults most PalmOS apps to a 160*160 area in the middle of the screen - you get a extra-thick border on the right and no border on the left, with a little bump to the bottom left corner, not a dot - looks really bad). It's easier for me to clean up any/all screens than to get PalmSource to make 160*160 modal screens work the way I want them (or, of course, to take advantage of the full Dana screen - but that's more work...). IMHO, as we get newer form factors from licensees, it's really to your advantage to pay attention to the UI guidelines, at the very least so that if you break them you will understand the consequences. At 12:00 AM 2/24/2003 -0800, Stringer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I believe that the UI guidelines are incomplete on the subject of modal screens, and that full screen 160*160 modal screens have a valid place in UI design in Palm OS. Tom Frauenhofer, [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.beret.com -- For information on using the Palm Developer Forums, or to unsubscribe, please see http://www.palmos.com/dev/support/forums/
Re: Developer Certification ?
Roger Stringer: Speaking for myself, I was always put off by the lack of sample exams and a primer. The comment just read all the manuals and you'll pass was never motivating. I took the sample a while ago, so I don't remember exactly, but I think there wasn't much, if anything, from the Communications section (except maybe IR), however there was a fair amount of conduit stuff. Maybe if it was their intention to exclude a few sections, they should mention it. My biggest complaint, however, is that it's not clear how the tests are scored. I think there were about 30 questions on the sample, but many required more than one correct answer. How is the test scored, and what score is needed to pass? One time I was interested in taking it, but after sending a couple emails I never got a response to that question. Jason -- For information on using the Palm Developer Forums, or to unsubscribe, please see http://www.palmos.com/dev/support/forums/
Re: Developer Certification ?
On Sunday, February 23, 2003, at 05:02 AM, Mark Wilden wrote: From: Scott Gruby [EMAIL PROTECTED] It is too bad that users tolerate this junk. Maybe users just don't care as much about UI guidelines as some of us do? :) I don't think they do to be honest. Most customers I have encountered are far more concerned with things like 'reliability' and 'integrity of data' over time. I have seen some real pigs in my time, I remember one system, a train describer, and I think the original UI designer was on a bad acid trip or something. Just about every different screen was differently coloured, used different fonts and just looked like somebody let loose eight pounds of semtex in a paint factorybutbecause it worked in a defined manner and worked reliably, day in day out, they were more than happy with it. I don't think users even know what modal and modeless really mean. If you ask a Word user: 'Is that search dialog modal or modeless? they wouldn't have a clue. All they know is it just hangs there (in the way most of the time!) until the need it again or close it. That's all they care about and need to know. The bottom line is I think, to quote Ripping Yarns, It's not the shorts lad, it's what' in 'em!. Okay, some level of consistency is required for a common LAF but I don't see what the beef is all about over a couple of pixels in the corners and I don't really think that you can infer the programmer is a dumb-ass from that. He might be a genius who's just too busy to worry about such things. Einstein had a wardrobe with seven identical suits so as he wouldn't have to waste mental effort deciding what to wear. How many people looked at him and thought He always wears the same clothes, how unimaginative he must be! Sean Charles. -- For information on using the Palm Developer Forums, or to unsubscribe, please see http://www.palmos.com/dev/support/forums/ -- For information on using the Palm Developer Forums, or to unsubscribe, please see http://www.palmos.com/dev/support/forums/
Re: Developer Certification ?
Subject: Re: Developer Certification ? From:Mark Wilden [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Scott Gruby [EMAIL PROTECTED] It is too bad that users tolerate this junk. Maybe users just don't care as much about UI guidelines as some of us do? :) -- Seriuosly have you seen any application with a good user interface be it for palm sized computers or full sized? The fact that there are so many really really bad user interfaces around and people accept it is in my mind that most people have yet to understand that an application should be made with the user in mind. The user should not have to be molded to fit the application. The car analogy is often used in this setting. How would you react when you bring your car back to the dealer because it backfires when you hit turnsignal to the left and you are told that all you have to do is make sure that you turn on the windshield wipers before you hit the turnsignal. Of course, why didn't I think of that I must be really stupid! That seems to be the standard customer reply in regards to computer applications, however most people don't seem to think that it applies to things like cars. Considering more and more administrative things are done with the help of a computer theese days it is really scary that it has yet to move out of the users thinks they are stupid if they cant figure out how a computer program works phase. It is well over due. As far as guidlines go, they are extreemly important, if sometimes rather limited. Of course, I do believe that the majority of developers out there are not user interface designers, as is perfectly reasonable, and as such perhaps it would be wise to stick to the guidlines. However, if one feels that the guidlines are wrong in some point one should of course not follow it. But to be able to deem something wrong one has first to understand that thing totally. The palm ui guidlines as I understand are deigned to make the user understan the program more quickly as it will be similar to other palm programs as far as the user interface goes. This might be good in some instances, but in some other instances it is like using microsofts html-help just cause it is handy and people recognize it. Maybe guidlines can help people create better programs? I would rather create a good one myself, but better is obviously better than the not better. - Veronica -- For information on using the Palm Developer Forums, or to unsubscribe, please see http://www.palmos.com/dev/support/forums/
Re: Developer Certification (modeless dialogs)
Subject: Re: Developer Certification ? From: Scott Gruby [EMAIL PROTECTED] Scott wrote: What is PalmSource's stance on this technique? According to the UI guidelines, it would appear that this is not valid. 156 * 156 (called full-sized) is indeed valid according to the UI Guidelines. There's a difference; the poster that brought up full-sized dialogs was talking about 160x160. I use 156 x 156 all the time for preferences that need the room. The 160 x 160, I believe, is not valid according to the guidelines as you've pointed out. (The original part of the full sized dialogs was that there are dots in the corners when you use 160 x 160 modal dialogs which you shouldn't do.) BTW, I just went to PalmGear and took a look at some of the screen shots posted; of the 10 or so apps I looked at, ALL but 2 had UI issues on the one screen that was shown. It is too bad that users tolerate this junk. Personally I use modal screens extensively for pop-up screens in our PDE software. Users are unconcerned and unaware of the underlying nature of these screens, except that the centered screen title indicates a pop-up screen and not one of the screens on the regular flow, which have the left justified title. This visual difference is very useful in orienting the user and, to us, when doing phone support with unsophisticated users. These screens often have lots of information and/or entry fields. Now if the screen has a graffiti shift indicator in the bottom right hand corner, then that dot disappears. So any of our pop-up screens with entry fields and (in our world) normal button placement do not have a noticable dot problem. However, I plead guilty to ignoring these spurious dots in screens where the design doesn't automatically hide or disguise them. I believe that the UI guidelines are incomplete on the subject of modal screens, and that full screen 160*160 modal screens have a valid place in UI design in Palm OS. Roger Stringer Marietta Systems, Inc. (www.RF-TP.com) -- For information on using the Palm Developer Forums, or to unsubscribe, please see http://www.palmos.com/dev/support/forums/
Re: Developer Certification ?
I thought that the exam was quite reasonable. There were some things I didn't know, but the week I spent studying before hand helped. However, I have been doing Palm development for about 6 years now, so my experience probably made it easier. i personally have not taken the exam - but, looking at the samples it did go against one of the principles about 'not being dependent on tool chains'; the question regarding the debugger was specific to palmdebugger. -- not everyone uses this/and or a debugger at all (you dont need a debugger to write good programs, its all technique) As for benefits, my employer requested that I take the exam and become certified. Since I just got listed on that page recently and am getting our MobileCoders profile updated, I'm not sure if it will help us get work. It has however, reaffirmed my skills to one of our large clients. Personally, if I was shopping for a developer and saw some of the awful programs out there, I'd do whatever I could to ensure that whoever I hired knew what he (or she) was doing. The certification is one gauge that would help. certification doesn't really mean much. i wasted time and effort getting Java certified, and, it made absolutely no difference to my employment opportunities. i dont blame that for the test itself, but, my experience with Java was high enough before i sat the test and i had appropriate 'demoable experience/knowledge' of the topic. i dont think many people have actually done the certification for palmos, and, the majority of developers that actually do have it have it solely due to the fact that they helped write the tests themselves. for all you know, maybe they were not even capable of passing the test :) its one thing we'll never know. it is a serious pity the offer to help with the exams was only local to USA/california as well :( looking at the basic overview, there are a few items that could have been covered (more advanced topics). I would also like to see the certification cover some aspects of user interface as this has been one of my biggest complaints over the years about Palm OS application. (Ever seen an app that centers buttons in a dialog or puts the OK button on the right and cancel button on the right?) when you write software for a platform; its best to adopt the standard of the os by looking at its built in applications. if you go against these, you normally should have a good reason to mess everything up. maybe one day i'll bother with the certification - but, in the mean time i have a pretty solid portfolio of public and private work to back up any experience i have with the platform. its also known well that i may go against many rules set by palm just to get the job done (which, otherwise would be an impossible task) :) overtime, these do not become issues as the os is improved and version checks can be made to get around previous limitations (which, required a bit of hacking/tweaking) - the fun stuff. --- Aaron Ardiri [EMAIL PROTECTED] CEO - CTO +46 70 656 1143 Mobile Wizardry http://www.mobilewizardry.com/ -- For information on using the Palm Developer Forums, or to unsubscribe, please see http://www.palmos.com/dev/support/forums/
Re: Developer Certification ?
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Aaron Ardiri [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I thought that the exam was quite reasonable. There were some things I didn't know, but the week I spent studying before hand helped. However, I have been doing Palm development for about 6 years now, so my experience probably made it easier. i personally have not taken the exam - but, looking at the samples it did go against one of the principles about 'not being dependent on tool chains'; the question regarding the debugger was specific to palmdebugger. -- not everyone uses this/and or a debugger at all (you dont need a debugger to write good programs, its all technique) Very true; there were some questions that were even platform specific. I only had a chance at getting them right because I had read about them during my studying. when you write software for a platform; its best to adopt the standard of the os by looking at its built in applications. if you go against these, you normally should have a good reason to mess everything up. I don't think laziness counts! There is some stuff that I've written that has gone against the UI guidelines because the client wanted it that way and they have a specific target audience. For general purpose software, I think that the guidelines (which are just guides and not law) are reasonable. maybe one day i'll bother with the certification - but, in the mean time i have a pretty solid portfolio of public and private work to back up any experience i have with the platform. its also known well that i may go against many rules set by palm just to get the job done (which, otherwise would be an impossible task) :) overtime, these do not become issues as the os is improved and version checks can be made to get around previous limitations (which, required a bit of hacking/tweaking) - the fun stuff. While I sort of agree that the certification may not mean much, it at least meant I went through the extra effort (I didn't help write the test). Some may see this as valuable. Like you, I have a fairly large portfolio of projects that demonstrates my abilities. -- Scott Gruby Palm OS Certified Developer [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.notifymail.com/palm/ -- For information on using the Palm Developer Forums, or to unsubscribe, please see http://www.palmos.com/dev/support/forums/
Re: Developer Certification ?
Subject: Developer Certification ? From: Arrow [EMAIL PROTECTED] ...from this page: http://www.palmos.com/dev/certification/developers.html only looks to be only 14 certified ? this would be: Speaking for myself, I was always put off by the lack of sample exams and a primer. The comment just read all the manuals and you'll pass was never motivating. Most programmers exist in a subset of the total functionality, and would be lost when presented with questions outside of their normal subset. I don't know what areas covered in the test are outside of the (large) subset that I routinely use, and hence I'm not clear what areas need to be studied in order to pass the test, if any! In addition, and again speaking for myself, the nastier parts of the API set have been encapsulated in function calls and I haven't had to address some of those issues for a very considerable time. But that again goes back to knowing what aspects to study. Roger Stringer Marietta Systems, Inc. (www.RF-TP.com) -- For information on using the Palm Developer Forums, or to unsubscribe, please see http://www.palmos.com/dev/support/forums/
Re: Developer Certification ?
Subject: Re: Developer Certification ? From: Chris Antos [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 16:04:17 -0800 X-Message-Number: 39 Scott Gruby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ... snip ... I would also like to see the certification cover some aspects of user interface as this has been one of my biggest complaints over the years about Palm OS application. (Ever seen an app that centers buttons in a dialog or puts the OK button on the right and cancel button on the right?) How about modal forms located at 0,0 with extents 160,160? It's wrong and it looks bad (this is what causes forms to have tiny dots in the corners). A full-screen modal form should be located at 2,2 with extents 156,156. It's a small cosmetic thing, but to me it indicates the author is not aware of some pretty basic things, and that makes me wonder what else is broken, so I prefer to avoid using such apps. As someone who often uses full screen modal forms, I consider the 'dot' issue a minor OS bug. The OS should be smart enough to recognize 160x160 modal forms and not draw these annoying dots in the corners. But you should not look down on programmers who use full screen modal forms! It is, in my humble opinion, a perfectly valid technique. Roger Stringer Marietta Systems, Inc. (www.RF-TP.com) -- For information on using the Palm Developer Forums, or to unsubscribe, please see http://www.palmos.com/dev/support/forums/
Re: Developer Certification ?
How about modal forms located at 0,0 with extents 160,160? It's wrong and it looks bad (this is what causes forms to have tiny dots in the corners). A full-screen modal form should be located at 2,2 with extents 156,156. It's a small cosmetic thing, but to me it indicates the author is not aware of some pretty basic things, and that makes me wonder what else is broken, so I prefer to avoid using such apps. As someone who often uses full screen modal forms, I consider the 'dot' issue a minor OS bug. The OS should be smart enough to recognize 160x160 modal forms and not draw these annoying dots in the corners. But you should not look down on programmers who use full screen modal forms! It is, in my humble opinion, a perfectly valid technique. If an app considers it a valid technique, then I would expect the app to at least employ a workaround to make the forms look nice. For example, it's easy enough to clear the corners. Otherwise I wonder, did the author not notice, or did the author not care? I'm not so comfortable with either. Please don't take it personally that I like to look out for the health of my device. I've noticed a statistical correlation between full screen modal forms (something the OS explicitly does not support, btw -- doesn't disallow does not imply supports) and newbie mistakes like using globals inside sysAppLaunchCmdSyncNotify or sysAppLaunchCmdSystemReset, or worse not realizing about launch codes at all. ;-) If it will help you understand where I'm coming from, please think of my choice to avoid apps which put the modal form frame offscreen as a little security blanket of mine. I don't mean to question your skills -- you may be a rock solid seasoned coder who like the majority of coders is more concerned with functionality than looks -- in that case it's my loss, but I enjoy the safety that I've found from this statistical observation. But anyway, the original point was that the UI looks bad, and the developer didn't do anything about it. It sounds like you agree the dots look bad, so if you wouldn't mind, could you say why it is that you don't do anything about them? -- For information on using the Palm Developer Forums, or to unsubscribe, please see http://www.palmos.com/dev/support/forums/
Re: Developer Certification ?
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Stringer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Subject: Developer Certification ? From: Arrow [EMAIL PROTECTED] ...from this page: http://www.palmos.com/dev/certification/developers.html only looks to be only 14 certified ? this would be: Speaking for myself, I was always put off by the lack of sample exams and a primer. The comment just read all the manuals and you'll pass was never motivating. There are sample questions on the website (now) that I found quite helpful. Most programmers exist in a subset of the total functionality, and would be lost when presented with questions outside of their normal subset. I don't know what areas covered in the test are outside of the (large) subset that I routinely use, and hence I'm not clear what areas need to be studied in order to pass the test, if any! My technique was to read all the items (except for the API reference) that the certification website says to use (including the 2 books) and do the sample questions. That worked for me. In addition, and again speaking for myself, the nastier parts of the API set have been encapsulated in function calls and I haven't had to address some of those issues for a very considerable time. But that again goes back to knowing what aspects to study. While I do encapsulate a lot of functions of the APIs, I know the underlying structure which I believe is important. It is quite important, in my opinion, to know what is going on. -- Scott Gruby Palm OS Certified Developer [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.notifymail.com/palm/ -- For information on using the Palm Developer Forums, or to unsubscribe, please see http://www.palmos.com/dev/support/forums/
Re: Developer Certification ?
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Stringer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As someone who often uses full screen modal forms, I consider the 'dot' issue a minor OS bug. The OS should be smart enough to recognize 160x160 modal forms and not draw these annoying dots in the corners. Should I take it that you've never looked at the user interface guidelines? Full screen modal dialogs are ugly, in my opinion, and should not be used. In my 6 years of Palm development, I have never found the need for one. But you should not look down on programmers who use full screen modal forms! It is, in my humble opinion, a perfectly valid technique. What is PalmSource's stance on this technique? According to the UI guidelines, it would appear that this is not valid. Just my opinion... -- Scott Gruby Palm OS Certified Developer [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.notifymail.com/palm/ -- For information on using the Palm Developer Forums, or to unsubscribe, please see http://www.palmos.com/dev/support/forums/
Re: Developer Certification ?
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Stringer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As someone who often uses full screen modal forms, I consider the 'dot' issue a minor OS bug. The OS should be smart enough to recognize 160x160 modal forms and not draw these annoying dots in the corners. I have never seen a need for using full screen modal forms in the almost 20 years of programming in various languages on a variety of OSs. The portion of the UI still visible behind the form is a convention of GUI programming communicating to the user that a specific choice needs to be made before the app can continue or that an error has occurred preventing the app from performing a task or continuing to function. -- Steve Jerrett Systems Analyst City of Columbia, MO -- For information on using the Palm Developer Forums, or to unsubscribe, please see http://www.palmos.com/dev/support/forums/
Re: Developer Certification ?
This is an interesting discussion and I agree with those who have stated that too few developers pay attention to good user interface design and user interface design compliance with the published standards. I'd be curious to know how many people actually downloaded and read that document. If you don't know what I am talking about, it's available from this page: http://www.palmos.com/dev/support/docs/ (search for Palm OS User Interface Guidelines). To comment on some statements made: Scott wrote: What is PalmSource's stance on this technique? According to the UI guidelines, it would appear that this is not valid. 156 * 156 (called full-sized) is indeed valid according to the UI Guidelines. p.54 Palm OS User Interface Guidelines begin quote - Make Modal Forms as Short as Possible Although modal forms are always the width of the screen, they are not always the height of the screen. Its best to make the modal form shorter than the screen so that the main form, appearing below the modal form, provides context. Try to make the modal form as short as possible. Allow at least 3 pixels of space between the main forms title bar and the top of the modal form. If the modal form obscures any portion of the main forms title bar, make the modal form the full size of the screen. end quote - (their definition of full sized is 156*156 to allow for the border). Steve wrote: I have never seen a need for using full screen modal forms in the almost 20 years of programming in various languages on a variety of OSs. The portion of the UI still visible behind the form is a convention of GUI programming communicating to the user that a specific choice needs to be made before the app can continue or that an error has occurred preventing the app from performing a task or continuing to function. Given the size of the screen of most PalmOS devices, I don't think it is necessarily valid to apply experience with other OSs (which, I assume, were mostly for larger-screen devices) to the design of PalmOS applications. Apparently the designers of PalmOS themselves saw the need for full-sized dialogs here and there. Examples of full-size modal forms in the OS itself are the calendar and the beam dialog of the launcher. Oliver __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ -- For information on using the Palm Developer Forums, or to unsubscribe, please see http://www.palmos.com/dev/support/forums/
Re: Developer Certification ?
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is an interesting discussion and I agree with those who have stated that too few developers pay attention to good user interface design and user interface design compliance with the published standards. I'd be curious to know how many people actually downloaded and read that document. If you don't know what I am talking about, it's available from this page: http://www.palmos.com/dev/support/docs/ (search for Palm OS User Interface Guidelines). Apparently not enough. I could point to numerous applications that have UI defects. I'm not saying that my stuff is perfect, but I do my best to adhere to the guidelines. In a recent exchange I had with another developer, he wrote: I have a cordial dislike for guidelines, although I think internal consistency is necessary. With that kind of attitude, no wonder developers haven't read the guidelines, let alone attempt to adhere to them. To comment on some statements made: Scott wrote: What is PalmSource's stance on this technique? According to the UI guidelines, it would appear that this is not valid. 156 * 156 (called full-sized) is indeed valid according to the UI Guidelines. There's a difference; the poster that brought up full-sized dialogs was talking about 160x160. I use 156 x 156 all the time for preferences that need the room. The 160 x 160, I believe, is not valid according to the guidelines as you've pointed out. (The original part of the full sized dialogs was that there are dots in the corners when you use 160 x 160 modal dialogs which you shouldn't do.) BTW, I just went to PalmGear and took a look at some of the screen shots posted; of the 10 or so apps I looked at, ALL but 2 had UI issues on the one screen that was shown. It is too bad that users tolerate this junk. -- Scott Gruby Palm OS Certified Developer [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.notifymail.com/palm/ -- For information on using the Palm Developer Forums, or to unsubscribe, please see http://www.palmos.com/dev/support/forums/
Re: Developer Certification ?
From: Steve Jerrett [EMAIL PROTECTED] The portion of the UI still visible behind the form is a convention of GUI programming communicating to the user that a specific choice needs to be made before the app can continue or that an error has occurred preventing the app from performing a task or continuing to function. That's certainly true, but isn't the same thing communicated when there is no portion still visible? It's not very likely the user will think the full-screen form is modeless. That said, I agree with sticking with the UI guidelines in general. -- For information on using the Palm Developer Forums, or to unsubscribe, please see http://www.palmos.com/dev/support/forums/
Re: Developer Certification ?
From: Scott Gruby [EMAIL PROTECTED] It is too bad that users tolerate this junk. Maybe users just don't care as much about UI guidelines as some of us do? :) -- For information on using the Palm Developer Forums, or to unsubscribe, please see http://www.palmos.com/dev/support/forums/
Re: Developer Certification ?
Scott wrote: There's a difference; the poster that brought up full-sized dialogs was talking about 160x160. I use 156 x 156 all the time for preferences that need the room. The 160 x 160, I believe, is not valid according to the guidelines as you've pointed out. OK, I think I misunderstood you a bit: I somehow thought you not only didn't like 160*160 screens -- for good reason -- but also didn't see the need for having full-screen modal forms in general (and with full-screen I meant compliant-with-UI-standards full-screen dialogs, i.e., 156*156). Sorry about that. Like you, I have used 156*156 at times, and I think if the extra four pixels would have been so important to squeeze in more stuff, the screen would have had other design problems, too. It is too bad that users tolerate this junk. True. Not only in the Palm world, of course. Most of my work as a software developer is actually for non-Palm platforms, and it often amazes me how otherwise skilled developers are so ignorant of design guidelines, and often just consider their work done when there are still glaring UI problems to resolve (from simple typos to misaligned fields/prompts to wrong fonts to modal screens that shouldn't be modal...). Oliver __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ -- For information on using the Palm Developer Forums, or to unsubscribe, please see http://www.palmos.com/dev/support/forums/
Developer Certification ?
...from this page: http://www.palmos.com/dev/certification/developers.html only looks to be only 14 certified ? this would be: a) i'm reading this wrong and there are thousands b) developers out there don't think it's worth the time and $175us c) elaborating on b) - not much benefit / customers don't care about this certification d) exam is too hard so, only few have passed e) other reasons i've missed ...would also like to hear comments from those who have certification if they feel it's worth it / help get work, etc... Thanks -- For information on using the Palm Developer Forums, or to unsubscribe, please see http://www.palmos.com/dev/support/forums/
Re: Developer Certification ?
Arrow wrote: ...from this page: http://www.palmos.com/dev/certification/developers.html only looks to be only 14 certified ? this would be: a) i'm reading this wrong and there are thousands a) is the right answer here. If you go to http://palmsource.mobilecoders.com/search.asp you'll find a list of 501 certified developers and firms with certified developers. Regards -- John Mitchell Services Technology Office, Advanced Development Group, New Technology Researcher Internal Tel: x74220 Tel: 303 272 4220 -- For information on using the Palm Developer Forums, or to unsubscribe, please see http://www.palmos.com/dev/support/forums/
Re: Developer Certification ?
...that page says Palm OS Certified (9) All (501) ...only 9 companies out of the 501 listed are certified, also if you click the Palm OS Certified (9) take the 1st company, Austin Lane, for example, go back to page with the 14 certified developers listed, you will see Rob Graber works for this company, hence the certification. John Mitchell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Arrow wrote: ...from this page: http://www.palmos.com/dev/certification/developers.html only looks to be only 14 certified ? this would be: a) i'm reading this wrong and there are thousands a) is the right answer here. If you go to http://palmsource.mobilecoders.com/search.asp you'll find a list of 501 certified developers and firms with certified developers. Regards -- John Mitchell Services Technology Office, Advanced Development Group, New Technology Researcher Internal Tel: x74220 Tel: 303 272 4220 -- For information on using the Palm Developer Forums, or to unsubscribe, please see http://www.palmos.com/dev/support/forums/
Re: Developer Certification ?
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Arrow [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ...from this page: http://www.palmos.com/dev/certification/developers.html only looks to be only 14 certified ? this would be: a) i'm reading this wrong and there are thousands b) developers out there don't think it's worth the time and $175us c) elaborating on b) - not much benefit / customers don't care about this certification d) exam is too hard so, only few have passed e) other reasons i've missed ...would also like to hear comments from those who have certification if they feel it's worth it / help get work, etc... Thanks I thought that the exam was quite reasonable. There were some things I didn't know, but the week I spent studying before hand helped. However, I have been doing Palm development for about 6 years now, so my experience probably made it easier. As for benefits, my employer requested that I take the exam and become certified. Since I just got listed on that page recently and am getting our MobileCoders profile updated, I'm not sure if it will help us get work. It has however, reaffirmed my skills to one of our large clients. Personally, if I was shopping for a developer and saw some of the awful programs out there, I'd do whatever I could to ensure that whoever I hired knew what he (or she) was doing. The certification is one gauge that would help. I would also like to see the certification cover some aspects of user interface as this has been one of my biggest complaints over the years about Palm OS application. (Ever seen an app that centers buttons in a dialog or puts the OK button on the right and cancel button on the right?) -- Scott Gruby Palm OS Certified Developer [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.notifymail.com/palm/ -- For information on using the Palm Developer Forums, or to unsubscribe, please see http://www.palmos.com/dev/support/forums/
Re: Developer Certification ?
Scott Gruby wrote: ... about Palm OS application. (Ever seen an app that centers buttons in a dialog or puts the OK button on the right and cancel button on the right?) nope, I never seen this ;-) Henk -- - [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.metaviewsoft.de A HREF=http://www.handango.com/PlatformTopSoftware.jsp?authorId=95946; IMG SRC=http://user.cs.tu-berlin.de/~jonash/werbung_palmos.jpg;/A - -- For information on using the Palm Developer Forums, or to unsubscribe, please see http://www.palmos.com/dev/support/forums/
Re: Developer Certification ?
Scott Gruby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ... snip ... I would also like to see the certification cover some aspects of user interface as this has been one of my biggest complaints over the years about Palm OS application. (Ever seen an app that centers buttons in a dialog or puts the OK button on the right and cancel button on the right?) How about modal forms located at 0,0 with extents 160,160? It's wrong and it looks bad (this is what causes forms to have tiny dots in the corners). A full-screen modal form should be located at 2,2 with extents 156,156. It's a small cosmetic thing, but to me it indicates the author is not aware of some pretty basic things, and that makes me wonder what else is broken, so I prefer to avoid using such apps. -- For information on using the Palm Developer Forums, or to unsubscribe, please see http://www.palmos.com/dev/support/forums/
Re: Developer Certification ?
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Chris Antos [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Scott Gruby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ... snip ... I would also like to see the certification cover some aspects of user interface as this has been one of my biggest complaints over the years about Palm OS application. (Ever seen an app that centers buttons in a dialog or puts the OK button on the right and cancel button on the right?) How about modal forms located at 0,0 with extents 160,160? It's wrong and it looks bad (this is what causes forms to have tiny dots in the corners). A full-screen modal form should be located at 2,2 with extents 156,156. It's a small cosmetic thing, but to me it indicates the author is not aware of some pretty basic things, and that makes me wonder what else is broken, so I prefer to avoid using such apps. I'm glad I'm not the only one that has a problem with these minor UI items. I've seen a number of highly popular commercial applications that suffer from these issues. (If anyone wants a UI review of your app, let me know...the first basic pass is free.) -- Scott Gruby Palm OS Certified Developer [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.notifymail.com/palm/ -- For information on using the Palm Developer Forums, or to unsubscribe, please see http://www.palmos.com/dev/support/forums/
Palm Developer Certification Test?
has anyone taken the Certified Developer competency test? if so, can you describe the level of detail and the topics covered in the test? i'm not looking for the answers, it's just that Palm's description of the test is so vague that i don't know what to brush up on or learn in order to ensure i pass the test. here's a snippet of Palm's description of the test: Writing The Code; Debugging The Solution; Optimizing The Solution; Conduits. i checked the ProMetric site - they administer the test - but could find no prep materials or sample test. my request to Palm for more info has gone, as yet, unanswered. again, i'm not looking to crib your notes from the test, i just want to know more about what the test covers, and to what level of detail so that i am prepared. thanks. steve -- For information on using the Palm Developer Forums, or to unsubscribe, please see http://www.palmos.com/dev/tech/support/forums/
Re: Palm Developer Certification Test?
From: Steve Palmen [EMAIL PROTECTED] has anyone taken the Certified Developer competency test? if so, can you describe the level of detail and the topics covered in the test? i'm not I asked ProMetric about it and this is what I got from them.. still pretty vague.. I would love to see a sample test as well: Thank you for your interest in the Palm Powered Certified Developer program. Here is some more information regarding the program. If you still have questions, please sent your questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Registration You can register online for certification exams through Prometric at http://www.2test.com/ www.2test.com. Online registration is currently available in the United States, Canada, and in many European countries. To locate a Prometric testing center in your area, visit http://www.2test.com/ www.2test.com or call 800-798-EXAM. The price of this exam is $175. Exam Topics Questions in the exam are derived from the following areas of development: * Designing the solution * Prototyping the solution * Writing the code * Testing the solution * Debugging the solution * Optimizing the solution * Documenting the solution * Conduits Benefits of Certification After passing the certification exam, you'll receive a Palm Powered Certified Developer Welcome Kit in the mail including a diploma and a CD with the Palm Powered Certified Developer logo and usage guidelines. Obtaining Results Immediately following completion of the exam, you'll receive your score report and confirmation of your results. Retaking an Exam If candidate fails exam on first attempt they must wait 1 week before retaking the exam. If candidate fails after second attempt they must wait 3 months. Any candidate who is requesting to take the exam a fourth time must be approved by Palm. -- Bradly J. Barton - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jenies Technologies Incorporated (972) 602-1835 http://www.JTI.net http://HandAble.com -- For information on using the Palm Developer Forums, or to unsubscribe, please see http://www.palmos.com/dev/tech/support/forums/
Re: Palm Developer Certification Test?
The test covers most everything in Palm OS development world, and tries to focus on Palm-specific stuff and not on C skills or on details you'd have to cram. Look at the documentation chapters for an overview of what the questions cover! (One wasn't taken from the other, but they're reasonably similar, for obvious reasons.) So for each of the sections they list on the test (designing, coding, testing, debugging, etc.) make sure you know how to do that well for all the major technology areas of Palm programming, and you should be pretty well prepared :-) Many things will come naturally for those who're routinely doing Palm OS development, so perhaps the best way to prepare is to write a few full-featured apps that do most everything, end-to-end, conduits and UI and memory and comms and so forth. I've suggested that some of the questions that didn't make the final cut of the test could be released as samples, for example when we had too many questions covering one specific area then releasing the unused question shouldn't hurt as far as I can tell. Writing to [EMAIL PROTECTED] would be the way to request that. -David Fedor Palm, Inc. -- For information on using the Palm Developer Forums, or to unsubscribe, please see http://www.palmos.com/dev/tech/support/forums/
Re: Palm Developer Certification Test?
Do I have to know any specific comercial developent tools? For example, do I have to know anything about codewarrior at all? If I stuck with GNU tools, will I be able to experience all the aspects of palmos after coding some applications as you described? Max --- David Fedor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The test covers most everything in Palm OS development world, and tries to focus on Palm-specific stuff and not on C skills or on details you'd have to cram. Look at the documentation chapters for an overview of what the questions cover! (One wasn't taken from the other, but they're reasonably similar, for obvious reasons.) So for each of the sections they list on the test (designing, coding, testing, debugging, etc.) make sure you know how to do that well for all the major technology areas of Palm programming, and you should be pretty well prepared :-) Many things will come naturally for those who're routinely doing Palm OS development, so perhaps the best way to prepare is to write a few full-featured apps that do most everything, end-to-end, conduits and UI and memory and comms and so forth. I've suggested that some of the questions that didn't make the final cut of the test could be released as samples, for example when we had too many questions covering one specific area then releasing the unused question shouldn't hurt as far as I can tell. Writing to [EMAIL PROTECTED] would be the way to request that. -David Fedor Palm, Inc. -- For information on using the Palm Developer Forums, or to unsubscribe, please see http://www.palmos.com/dev/tech/support/forums/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com -- For information on using the Palm Developer Forums, or to unsubscribe, please see http://www.palmos.com/dev/tech/support/forums/
Re: Palm Developer Certification Test?
Do I have to know any specific comercial developent tools? For example, do I have to know anything about codewarrior at all? If I stuck with GNU tools, will I be able to experience all the aspects of palmos after coding some applications as you described? This is a little too detailed for me to be able to respond. Ask [EMAIL PROTECTED] because I may or may not know, and if I do know, I may or may not be able to answer. Sorry :-) -David Fedor Palm, Inc. -- For information on using the Palm Developer Forums, or to unsubscribe, please see http://www.palmos.com/dev/tech/support/forums/
Re: Palm Developer Certification Test?
I know the goal was to make in non CodeWarrior specific and one criteria for rejection of a possible question was if it was only applicable to a programmer using CodeWarrior. I would NOT expect questions like what is the difference between the different optimization levels in CodeWarrior? It is a difficult task to decide what is expected knowledge for a palm programmer and what not. For example, is a developer who only uses Appforge or Satellite forms, but is very proficient with them, not a qualified Palm programmer? For this test we do assume a C programmer but try and make no assumption as to what IDE. For the purposes of this test, as study material I would go over the documentation (reference, companion, tools guide, conduit docs, web clipping guide) and published books like the Palm OS Bible or Neil's Rhodes Developer Guide (just examples, lots of good books out there). I don't think you need to do a crash course on CodeWarrior in order to pass the test, but you might want to look at some of the other tools that come with the SDK. An understanding of how to use POSE, palm debugger, PRC2OVL, WCA Builder, etc. is expected. Beyond that, a good knowledge of the APIs, compatibility issues (backwards and forwards), common mistakes, palm programming principles, etc. The test is a new test and because of that there is not an abundance of study material specifically directed at the test or compilations of older tests available. The questions are not based on obscure quirks that only come out of detailed inspection of the source. Nor are we trying to trick developers by swapping parameter order of APIs to see if you notice. If I were a developer getting ready for the test I would try to review the areas I do not use too much. The test does look for a large breadth of competency. If you can make (and debug) an international application with lots of good Zen of Palm UI, that beams and has wireless connectivity plus a conduit... you are probably a good candidate for the certification. -Ezekiel Sanborn de Asis Palm Developer Support [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- For information on using the Palm Developer Forums, or to unsubscribe, please see http://www.palmos.com/dev/tech/support/forums/
