Re: [PD] Array indexing for the wind and the birds
On Sat, 27 Oct 2007, Roman Haefeli wrote: there is no way in pd to tell how much behind schedule pd is with computing, or is there? Yes, use [realtime] and [timer] and [-]. ah ok. interesting. with that you could construct a 'dynamic patcher' that just does NOT cause a drop-out, right? No, because either the dsp is completely recompiled or it isn't. If you load gradually then you should hit the same quadratic time problem. I said you'd need to modify d_ugen.c. This is because there is no way to start compiling and not finish it and resume it later, while keeping the old compilation running in the meanwhile. _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ... | Mathieu Bouchard - tél:+1.514.383.3801, Montréal QC Canada___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Array indexing for the wind and the birds
On Sat, 2007-10-27 at 02:12 -0400, Mathieu Bouchard wrote: On Sat, 27 Oct 2007, Roman Haefeli wrote: there is no way in pd to tell how much behind schedule pd is with computing, or is there? Yes, use [realtime] and [timer] and [-]. ah ok. interesting. with that you could construct a 'dynamic patcher' that just does NOT cause a drop-out, right? No, because either the dsp is completely recompiled or it isn't. If you load gradually then you should hit the same quadratic time problem. I said you'd need to modify d_ugen.c. This is because there is no way to start compiling and not finish it and resume it later, while keeping the old compilation running in the meanwhile. ah, yes. what you say sounds reasonable to me. but you needed to say it so that i can see it. roman ___ Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Can you help me with this patch?
On Fri, 26 Oct 2007, Steffen Juul wrote: Say you have a t b b and a delay 0 connected to the right outlet, plus a print left and print right below these (sorry, can't type brackets here so no ASCII). Then even when the right outlet of t b b fires first, the delay 0 will defer its bang, so that still the left gets printed before the right. Both get printed in the same block, though, and at the same time. Say what... what happened to depth first? - What am i missing? pd processes a queue of things to do for each logical time. Those can be [metro] events, [delay] events, [line] events, etc., or gui events, from which messages can be sent, depth-first. sending to a [delay 0] will add something to the end of the queue of the same logical time. thus it is after the current depth-first processing is completely done, that a new depth-first process will start in the [delay] object. _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ... | Mathieu Bouchard - tél:+1.514.383.3801, Montréal QC Canada___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] about sexy-ism
While the post was particularly vulgar, it's debatable whether knowing about sex is harmful to teenagers. It's also debatable in general whether it's anyone's responsibility to try to do what's best for other people's children. Anyway I suspect it's more the people around the teenage girl who don't want her to know, but if you want to control what a person knows beyond infancy you've got to resort to drastic measures, like controlling what strangers are allowed to say in public. The 1980's saw some ferocious attempts to censor music and music videos in the name of children. While there are definitely some things children may prefer not to know or think about, a) I don't think sex is usually one of them (my sister, at 12 or 15, would have thought the post was hilarious, and yes she would have understood it), and b) people with children don't rule the world! A 12- or 15-year-old in the US can turn on the TV and see shootings, drug dealing, political corruption, human trafficking, etc., etc., on the news or fictional shows, but let one woman's nipple appear through a tiny hole for a few seconds and all hell breaks loose. I'm a big fan of art, and subversive, offensive art is some of my favorite stuff. R Crumb, Frank Zappa, John Steinbeck, Sylvia Plath, Prince, Eminem, and John Lennon, just to name a few, have done some stuff many people would love to silence (and they try continuously). While the post about sexyism was really off-topic and a bit predictable, I like to think that if I made music with Pd that some people would consider offensive it would not be off-topic. Although many such off-topic Pd-object pun posts have come and gone with no mention of being off-topic because they didn't share the same tone and content... Are there any official rules for content on this forum? Does moderation exist? I have no problem with them if so, but I'm guessing the answers are both no? -Chuckk On 10/27/07, Chris McCormick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Would you have told this joke in a room with children within earshot? I hope not. The pd-list should be thought of a such a room. It's a room with many many different people of different ages and sexes, with different cultural backgrounds. It's a room where anybody is free to come and hear about Pure Data and share and learn, not where they come to be told offensive jokes. It's a room where it would be really nice if everyone's 12 and 15 year old sisters who want to learn about Pd felt completely comfortable. This list is about a versatile audio visual tool. I can think of absolutely no good reason why anybody who wants to learn about a versatile audio visual tool should have to feel offended or threatened here. I guess the key is to remember that not everybody here is just like you. Not everyone is offended, or not offended by the same jokes. Not everyone is interested in the same things. Yes, I am asking you to self censor. Just like you would self censor when you visit your grandmother. I am asking you to show some universal respect and consideration, which is not very difficult at all. If you want to express those kinds of things, please choose a different audience and forum, as this one is on the whole, not interested. Best regards, Chris. On Fri, Oct 26, 2007 at 03:26:34PM -0400, vade wrote: Its a joke. Get over it. Comedians do it at venues of over a 1000 all the time. Ever hear of George Carlin, Bill Hicks, Eddy Murphy (back when he was funny..), etc etc. Whether or not the PD list is the place for this, well, frankly, I'll agree it isnt, but that was my point about 3.5^10 emails ago - this thread is mind boggingly off topic - but that did not stop discussion over such amazingly interesting topics as the etymology of sexism, constructive comments about street jargon, academia and fun statistics over who applied and got accepted to what. Jesus fucking christ, its a joke about CONSENSUAL SEX USING PD OBJECTS AS A METAPHOR. OH NO. OH DEAR GOD OH MENSTRUATION. OH YUCK BOO HOO. No one notices Hard off also making fun of himself there. Ah, so typically one sided. Look. We are all humans. Some of us have vaginas, others penises. (hell some even have both) Some of us use PD and/or other Dataflow languages. Can we PLEASE GET OVER IT ALREADY? That email was more a comment on the lunacy of the aforementioned thread as well as some of you over intellectualizing every goddamn last minutiae of the topic - rather than an actual genuine heartfelt AFFRONT TO ALL OF WOMANKIND. Perhaps if you took of your lab coat, removed the various PHDs from behind your desk, and any other assorted academic paraphernalia that may be laying about* - including the self righteousness - you might see that last email as an attempt to cut through the bullshit of this topic. Im sorry I have to spell it out for you. *I am well aware that you and others may literally have said items
Re: [PD] about sexy-ism
i promise never to do this kind of thing again, as long as you guys promise that any future discussions of sexism, or politics, or anything not pd related is kept OT, where it belongs. fair enough eh? ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [entry] changes
On Oct 27, 2007, at 5:56 AM, Roman Haefeli wrote: in order to work with pd-ext i had to rename some object in chat and netpd-gui i.e. [l2s] to [zexy/list2symbol] or [netclient] to [maxlib/netclient]. is renaming zexy , maxlib objects with namespace the correct/only way in pd-extended? hm, i didn't test myself, but since you are using pd-0.40 (extended or not) zexy and maxlib and stuff should be loaded by [declare]. i think currently they are only loaded as externals, which means, for extended we would need to add them as pathes as well (with '-stdpath' instead of '-stdlib'). could you test, if that works? there is no way in renaming all the objets. most of them could be replaced with list-abs :) i tested if [list2symbol] could create and reloaded a test patch with did not create: import zexy declare -path zexy declare -stdlib zexy declare -stdpath zexy declare -path /Applications/Pd-0.40.3-extended-20071026.app/Contents/Resources/extra/ zexy declare -stdpath /Applications/Pd-0.40.3-extended-20071026.app/Contents/Resources/extra/ zexy did create: import zexy/list2symbol declare -stdlib zexy/list2symbol on osx 10.3.9 (it's an old cat) with Pd-0.40.3-extended-20071026.app but again. i want to know the official way to load an external in pd-extended. who can answer this or where is it documented? the readme says By default, most of the included libraries are loaded at startup. if import is the way to go what about all helpfiles, do they need to get updated in order to work? eni ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Spectrum graphing amplitude problem
hi all: thanks for asking about this music/visual. a few things that i should say/clarify about the visual. the visual is made by one of my close collaborator called Oli (http://yesyesnono.co.uk), we perform quite regularly in london (under the name of cracktux) and whereever we get to play. and this is one of the track we played. oli uses processing to make the visual and i use Pd to make the music. we use a small custom software to do fft from sound so that oli can use it to make/drive the visual(hence the beginning of the glass cloud.) this software is called Jackbytes, made by one of our friend (robert atwood) in OpenLab london. source is here: https://puredyne.goto10.org/listing.php?repname=jackbytespath=%2Ftags%2FV-0-5%2Frev=0sc=0 Robert's site is usually robert.lurk.org, which is down atm:/ as far as i know, its a generic client/server app to get fft data from jack. in this case, the client is running for processing. but can be anything i think. hope this is clear. peace chun Chris McCormick said : On Wed, Oct 24, 2007 at 02:01:13PM +0200, Steffen Juul wrote: On 24/10/2007, at 13.33, Ed Kelly wrote: Chun did a cool thing - it would be interesting to know how the video was made. Look up 'chun lee glass cloud' on youtube. Wicket -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJ-6_9ahw08 Wow, what an utterly wonderful piece of work! This is my new favorite video, thanks for sharing. I wish more people would post stuff like this to the pd-list. Chun, I am really interested in what tools you used to make this. Has it been exhibited or screened anywhere? Best, Chris. --- http://mccormick.cx ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd-0.39.3-extended released!
Hi Hans, everybody, Seems like I don't understand some stuff here, cause I am getting a lot of trouble with latest(s) Pd-extended releases (as ... nobody :) ) * PDP/PiDiP work out-of-box on Mac OS X What does this actuallly means ? These libs don't load at startup, and when I add the flag -lib pdp, I get this : /Applications/Pd-extended.app/Contents/Resources/Scripts/../extra/pdp.pd_darwin: dlopen(/Applications/Pd-extended.app/Contents/Resources/Scripts/../extra/pdp.pd_darwin, 10): Library not loaded: /usr/X11R6/lib/libX11.6.dylib Referenced from: /Applications/Pd-extended.app/Contents/Resources/Scripts/../extra/pdp.pd_darwin Reason: image not found pdp: can't load library And I checked that pdp.pd_darwin is in the extra folder (same problems with pidip) - A somehow related quetion : what happened to the preferences plist previously present in older releases, or put another way, why pd-ext doesn't try to load these libs (in particular) at startup ? - I do have issues also with rradical. For same reasons the lib doesn't load at startup and when I import it, I still have some externals not appearing, like coreGUI for example, I did not find where it comes from ... I may have some other problems, but I'm trying to solve them one by one ... Some details, I am on Intel iMac G5 with (of course) latest Pd-ext. I don't know if it is of importance, but I have several concurrent versions of Pd in my applications folder : another Pd-ext (Pd-0.39.2-extended-RC1), the latest Pd vanilla from Miller site together with the corresponding source files (with externals source files too from sourceforge) ... Any hints appreciated Sylvain Hans-Christoph Steiner a écrit : Finally, it's done! The most polished release of Pd yet. We are further refining Pd into a truly powerful and usable programming platform. http://puredata.org/downloads/ Some highlights: * PDP/PiDiP work out-of-box on Mac OS X * Gem has working shader support * new libraries: mapping, msd, mrpeach net/OSC, flib * [comport] is robust on all platforms * -font-face and -font-weight command line options * new font and layout is the exact same size on all platforms to the pixel * a new, pretty Icon on GNU/Linux and Mac OS X * anti-aliasing of boxes and lines on Mac OS X * a .deb package for Debian and Ubuntu, with GNOME menu support If you want the details, here's the changelog: 0.39.3-extended-rc5 * Mac OS X: pidip finds its default font again * Debian/Ubuntu: some minor cleanups in the package * included setuid security fix from Miller (hence bumped up version to 0.39.3 0.39.2-extended-rc4 * Mac OS X: added default prefs separate from embedded prefs * GNU/Linux: added embedded prefs * Mac OS X: updated msd/2D/3D from http://g.org/ext/beta/pd/osx/ * Windows: reg settings for loading libs now in installer * Mac OS X and Windows: added xsample to load by default * Mac OS X: switched Cmd-T to fontpanel * Mac OS X: added Cmd-click to toggle editmode * font and box size tweaks to make everything fit in the boxes * Debian and Ubuntu: Created quick hack debian package * added ggee to default libraries to load * GNU/Linux: PiDiP finds the fonts by default now 0.39.2-extended-rc3 * pdp and pidip support quicktime/mjpeg/png * included list-abs now works properly with 0.39.2 * Gem font support on Mac OS X is now included! * delread~/delwrite~ bug fixed * sqrt~ bug fixed 0.39.2-extended-rc2 * Bitstream Vera Sans Mono is now default font on Windows and GNU/ Linux * Monaco is the default font on Mac OS X * fixed GUI size, should actually be the same size on all platforms now * pdp and pidip should support quicktime/mjpeg/png and theora now * pdp_ieee1394 included on Mac OS X * the Mac OS X package looks much better, thanks to Stffn http:// dibidut.dk * default preferences are embedded into the Pd.app on Mac OS X * revamped font flags and added '-font-weight' flag * it's still missing Gem font support on Mac OS X :( * the delread~/sqrt~ bug is still not fixed :( 0.39.2-extended-rc1 * DejaVu Sans Mono is now default font * same sizes and layout on all platforms 0.39.2-extended-test7 * Gem should be installed and working on all platforms * the MSD (Mass-Spring-Damper) externals are included * included Thomas Grill's Mac/Intel fixes for iemlib and cyclone * Universal binaries for flext externals 0.39.2-extended-test6 * Lots of random little bugs fixed 0.39.2-extended-test5 * Much has changed, this test release should have benefitted a lot from the nightly autobuilds and a few workshops to stress test them 0.39.2-extended-test4 * all of creb should be included now on all platforms * updated version of [hid] for Mac OS X 0.39.2-extended-test3 * Added iem_ambi and iem_bin_ambi libraries * Cleaned up the doc folders * Removed the
Re: [PD] [entry] changes
On Oct 27, 2007, at 6:02 AM, Enrique Erne wrote: On Oct 27, 2007, at 5:56 AM, Roman Haefeli wrote: in order to work with pd-ext i had to rename some object in chat and netpd-gui i.e. [l2s] to [zexy/list2symbol] or [netclient] to [maxlib/netclient]. is renaming zexy , maxlib objects with namespace the correct/only way in pd-extended? hm, i didn't test myself, but since you are using pd-0.40 (extended or not) zexy and maxlib and stuff should be loaded by [declare]. i think currently they are only loaded as externals, which means, for extended we would need to add them as pathes as well (with '-stdpath' instead of '-stdlib'). could you test, if that works? there is no way in renaming all the objets. most of them could be replaced with list-abs :) i tested if [list2symbol] could create and reloaded a test patch with did not create: import zexy declare -path zexy declare -stdlib zexy declare -stdpath zexy declare -path /Applications/Pd-0.40.3-extended-20071026.app/Contents/Resources/ extra/ zexy declare -stdpath /Applications/Pd-0.40.3-extended-20071026.app/Contents/Resources/ extra/ zexy did create: import zexy/list2symbol declare -stdlib zexy/list2symbol on osx 10.3.9 (it's an old cat) with Pd-0.40.3-extended-20071026.app but again. i want to know the official way to load an external in pd-extended. who can answer this or where is it documented? the readme says By default, most of the included libraries are loaded at startup. if import is the way to go what about all helpfiles, do they need to get updated in order to work? eni Sounds like you are using your own preferences file. If you move/ remove that, then it'll use the built-in prefs, and all the libs will be loaded. rm ~/Library/Preferences/org.puredata.pd.plist .hc ¡El pueblo unido jamás será vencido! ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [entry] changes
On Oct 26, 2007, at 7:34 PM, Enrique Erne wrote: On Oct 26, 2007, at 4:58 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: Hey all, The netpd project's chat interface inspired me to fix up the [entry] object so that it could serve as the building block for a chat app. I've added a number of improvements: - fixed fg/bg color bug - created [add( message which allows you to add to existing text - added float support to [set( and [add( messages - created second outlet which outputs the keys as you type them (this makes it easy to assign the enter/return key to make the box send its text). - made the inlet visible. - added rudimentary [size x y( message There are a couple of things that I think would be worth adding: - a message to add one character at a time - messages to change the font face, size, and weight - messages to change the border of the box This is in today's auto-builds if you want to try it. .hc hi Hans recently i divided the chat code and gui in a testing version on http://www.netpd.org/NetpdGuiAbstrhacked and extended it today with an experimental skin that is using [entry] to replace the symbol box. i have successfully tested on macosx103 with http://autobuild.puredata.info/auto-build/ 2007-10-26/ Pd-0.40.3-extended-20071026-macosx104-powerpc.dmg the entry in the GOP didn't display, does it for you? entry-gop- test works fine in pd-ext-039 in order to work with pd-ext i had to rename some object in chat and netpd-gui i.e. [l2s] to [zexy/list2symbol] or [netclient] to [maxlib/netclient]. is renaming zexy , maxlib objects with namespace the correct/only way in pd-extended? One thing that I forgot to add is that many aliases currently don't work in Pd-extended. So sometimes, you need to use full names, like list2symbol instead of l2s. They could be added, it's just a matter of someone doing the work :D .hc if we can't load zexy objects without namespaces some(many?) netpd patches wouldn't work. i'm afraid the whole chain, between master- clock, sequencer, instrument, mixer and effects would break. netpd prototype with entry field: http://netpd.org/netpd-skin- entry.tgz eni Terrorism is not an enemy. It cannot be defeated. It's a tactic. It's about as sensible to say we declare war on night attacks and expect we're going to win that war. We're not going to win the war on terrorism.- retired U.S. Army general, William Odom ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd-0.39.3-extended released!
On Oct 27, 2007, at 10:03 AM, Sylvain wrote: Hi Hans, everybody, Seems like I don't understand some stuff here, cause I am getting a lot of trouble with latest(s) Pd-extended releases (as ... nobody :) ) * PDP/PiDiP work out-of-box on Mac OS X What does this actuallly means ? These libs don't load at startup, and when I add the flag -lib pdp, I get this : /Applications/Pd-extended.app/Contents/Resources/Scripts/../extra/ pdp.pd_darwin: dlopen(/Applications/Pd-extended.app/Contents/Resources/Scripts/../ extra/pdp.pd_darwin, 10): Library not loaded: /usr/X11R6/lib/libX11.6.dylib Referenced from: /Applications/Pd-extended.app/Contents/Resources/Scripts/../extra/ pdp.pd_darwin Reason: image not found pdp: can't load library And I checked that pdp.pd_darwin is in the extra folder (same problems with pidip) Install X11, it's on your Mac OS X 10.4 DVD. - A somehow related quetion : what happened to the preferences plist previously present in older releases, or put another way, why pd-ext doesn't try to load these libs (in particular) at startup ? It's embedded into the app itself. Remove your pref file, and it'll use the embedded one: rm ~/Library/Preferences/org.puredata.pd.plist - I do have issues also with rradical. For same reasons the lib doesn't load at startup and when I import it, I still have some externals not appearing, like coreGUI for example, I did not find where it comes from ... Donno about these... .hc I may have some other problems, but I'm trying to solve them one by one ... Some details, I am on Intel iMac G5 with (of course) latest Pd-ext. I don't know if it is of importance, but I have several concurrent versions of Pd in my applications folder : another Pd-ext (Pd-0.39.2-extended-RC1), the latest Pd vanilla from Miller site together with the corresponding source files (with externals source files too from sourceforge) ... Any hints appreciated Sylvain Hans-Christoph Steiner a écrit : Finally, it's done! The most polished release of Pd yet. We are further refining Pd into a truly powerful and usable programming platform. http://puredata.org/downloads/ Some highlights: * PDP/PiDiP work out-of-box on Mac OS X * Gem has working shader support * new libraries: mapping, msd, mrpeach net/OSC, flib * [comport] is robust on all platforms * -font-face and -font-weight command line options * new font and layout is the exact same size on all platforms to the pixel * a new, pretty Icon on GNU/Linux and Mac OS X * anti-aliasing of boxes and lines on Mac OS X * a .deb package for Debian and Ubuntu, with GNOME menu support If you want the details, here's the changelog: 0.39.3-extended-rc5 * Mac OS X: pidip finds its default font again * Debian/Ubuntu: some minor cleanups in the package * included setuid security fix from Miller (hence bumped up version to 0.39.3 0.39.2-extended-rc4 * Mac OS X: added default prefs separate from embedded prefs * GNU/Linux: added embedded prefs * Mac OS X: updated msd/2D/3D from http://g.org/ext/beta/pd/ osx/ * Windows: reg settings for loading libs now in installer * Mac OS X and Windows: added xsample to load by default * Mac OS X: switched Cmd-T to fontpanel * Mac OS X: added Cmd-click to toggle editmode * font and box size tweaks to make everything fit in the boxes * Debian and Ubuntu: Created quick hack debian package * added ggee to default libraries to load * GNU/Linux: PiDiP finds the fonts by default now 0.39.2-extended-rc3 * pdp and pidip support quicktime/mjpeg/png * included list-abs now works properly with 0.39.2 * Gem font support on Mac OS X is now included! * delread~/delwrite~ bug fixed * sqrt~ bug fixed 0.39.2-extended-rc2 * Bitstream Vera Sans Mono is now default font on Windows and GNU/ Linux * Monaco is the default font on Mac OS X * fixed GUI size, should actually be the same size on all platforms now * pdp and pidip should support quicktime/mjpeg/png and theora now * pdp_ieee1394 included on Mac OS X * the Mac OS X package looks much better, thanks to Stffn http:// dibidut.dk * default preferences are embedded into the Pd.app on Mac OS X * revamped font flags and added '-font-weight' flag * it's still missing Gem font support on Mac OS X :( * the delread~/sqrt~ bug is still not fixed :( 0.39.2-extended-rc1 * DejaVu Sans Mono is now default font * same sizes and layout on all platforms 0.39.2-extended-test7 * Gem should be installed and working on all platforms * the MSD (Mass-Spring-Damper) externals are included * included Thomas Grill's Mac/Intel fixes for iemlib and cyclone * Universal binaries for flext externals 0.39.2-extended-test6 * Lots of random little bugs fixed 0.39.2-extended-test5 * Much has changed, this test release should have benefitted a lot from the nightly autobuilds
Re: [PD] about sexy-ism
This sums it up for me... http://xkcd.com/322/ ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [entry] changes
i've made an update of the test that works with the pd-0.40.3-extended-20071026 and pd-netpd-osx (requires the latest entry) http://www.netpd.org/NetpdGuiAbstrhacked http://www.netpd.org/netpd_skin_entry_II.tgz open _chat-extended.pd eni ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [entry] changes
On Sat, 2007-10-27 at 12:02 +0200, Enrique Erne wrote: On Oct 27, 2007, at 5:56 AM, Roman Haefeli wrote: in order to work with pd-ext i had to rename some object in chat and netpd-gui i.e. [l2s] to [zexy/list2symbol] or [netclient] to [maxlib/netclient]. is renaming zexy , maxlib objects with namespace the correct/only way in pd-extended? hm, i didn't test myself, but since you are using pd-0.40 (extended or not) zexy and maxlib and stuff should be loaded by [declare]. i think currently they are only loaded as externals, which means, for extended we would need to add them as pathes as well (with '-stdpath' instead of '-stdlib'). could you test, if that works? there is no way in renaming all the objets. most of them could be replaced with list-abs :) i tested if [list2symbol] could create and reloaded a test patch with did not create: import zexy declare -path zexy declare -stdlib zexy declare -stdpath zexy declare -path /Applications/Pd-0.40.3-extended-20071026.app/Contents/Resources/extra/ zexy declare -stdpath /Applications/Pd-0.40.3-extended-20071026.app/Contents/Resources/extra/ zexy did create: import zexy/list2symbol declare -stdlib zexy/list2symbol on osx 10.3.9 (it's an old cat) with Pd-0.40.3-extended-20071026.app but again. i want to know the official way to load an external in pd-extended. who can answer this or where is it documented? the readme says By default, most of the included libraries are loaded at startup. if import is the way to go what about all helpfiles, do they need to get updated in order to work? in case of netpd, it's not worth to think about [import] at all. netpd won't use it. roman ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Spectrum graphing amplitude problem
Mathieu Bouchard wrote: On Mon, 22 Oct 2007, Martin Peach wrote: No. The spokes just look blurred. Have you? If you try it at night under a streetlamp then you get the effect. I'm sure I have analog eyes ;) You have seen a lot of analog equipment and you know that it does time-wise sampling. analog vs digital is not what we are debating. Analog equipment works continuously in time. Digital is almost always clocked. If your eyes are clocked I'd like to see through them. If we are debating something here it involves a difference between continuous and discrete time systems, which constitutes part of the distinction between analog and digital in common parlance. Photons impinging on my eyes drive the illusion of vision. My eyes do not choose to sample incoming photons. The photons cause the nerve impulses. As long as the light source is continuous, something I am looking at will not spontaneously disappear because the rod or cone isn't sampling it at any given moment, rather the rod or cone is continually integrating the photon flux and outputting a stream of pulses in proportion to the incident intensity; the output is an analog of the input. In the brain the streams of pulses could be interpreted as digital but the streams from all the receptors are not synchronized by a central clock so the overall effect is of a continuous-time system. anyway, analog electronics are what one uses to construct digital electronics, thus analog electronics are very capable of discontinuity. If you are not satisfied with thinking of human vision as electric, you can extend the same reasoning to chemical processes that complement the electric processes in use by neurons. I never said any of that. I was responding to your implication that the aliasing effect seen in the spokes of a spinning bicycle wheel is caused by some sort of discrete-time sampling process in the eye, which is not the case. The aliasing is induced by illumination by a periodic light source which the mind interprets using a most likely scenario in which a spoke that reappears closest to one that was previously visible is probably the same spoke. Martin ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd-0.39.3-extended released!
Hallo, Hans-Christoph Steiner hat gesagt: // Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: - I do have issues also with rradical. For same reasons the lib doesn't load at startup and when I import it, I still have some externals not appearing, like coreGUI for example, I did not find where it comes from ... Donno about these... careGUI is an abstraction, in CVS it's in abstractions/rradical/memento/careGUI.pd, donno where it's in pd-extended. Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org__ ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [entry] changes
On Oct 27, 2007, at 6:11 PM, Roman Haefeli wrote: On Sat, 2007-10-27 at 12:02 +0200, Enrique Erne wrote: On Oct 27, 2007, at 5:56 AM, Roman Haefeli wrote: in order to work with pd-ext i had to rename some object in chat and netpd-gui i.e. [l2s] to [zexy/list2symbol] or [netclient] to [maxlib/netclient]. is renaming zexy , maxlib objects with namespace the correct/only way in pd-extended? hm, i didn't test myself, but since you are using pd-0.40 (extended or not) zexy and maxlib and stuff should be loaded by [declare]. i think currently they are only loaded as externals, which means, for extended we would need to add them as pathes as well (with '-stdpath' instead of '-stdlib'). could you test, if that works? there is no way in renaming all the objets. most of them could be replaced with list-abs :) i tested if [list2symbol] could create and reloaded a test patch with i think, from maxlib only [netclient] is used and most of the zexy objects are already replaced by internals. there are only two cases, i recall, where i still had to use zexy: -[symbol2list], there is no way yet to do that in plain pd. -[list2symbol]: there is franks replacement for this one, but i didn't figure out how to create a symbol out of a list with a ' '-delimiter. the answer is 32 not 42. Don't Panic ;-) test-delimiter.pd Description: Binary data http://youtube.com/watch?v=njQpOIqBhQs ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] msgfile headroom 1024
Hi, I get this error on opening big files with msgfile. error: msgfile: read error (headroom 1024 too small!) textfile is working, though. marius. ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] [Pd] Linux: [system]?
Hi. I am running Debian 64 testing, kernel 2.6.22.1 with Ingo Molnar's rt patch, Pd 0.41.0-test05, Jack 0.103.0, and Csound 5.06. I have a Csound file I'm running with csoundapi~, and I'm editing the Csound file while editing my Pd composition. Unfortunately, realtime scheduling doesn't work from the command line for Csound or Jack for some reason. I can use chrt to set rtprio for both, but not the standard commandline flags. The only reason I have a problem, then, is that I have to constantly reload/restart Csound when I make changes. Is there any way to send a message from Pd to run a shell script, or a single system command, so I can automatically chrt Csound to higher priority when I restart it? Thanks. -Chuckk -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] big files with textfile
Hi, textfile can handle bigger files than msgfile, but there seems to be a limit, too. I tried to open a 250MB file, and Pd crashed. marius. ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] big files with textfile
On Sat, 27 Oct 2007, marius schebella wrote: textfile can handle bigger files than msgfile, but there seems to be a limit, too. I tried to open a 250MB file, and Pd crashed. marius. If you measure bytes using an int32, the limit is 2GB, but if you measure it in bits, the limit is 256MB. [textfile] does read all the file into a buffer as big as the file. I didn't find anything that counts memory in bits, so perhaps it's just a coïncidence and the bug was something else, but I did fix another 256MB limit bug recently by adding parentheses in something like: num_entries * bits_per_entry / 8 When crossing the limit, the numbers become negative, and trying to allocate a negative amount causes the allocator to either abort the process or return NULL or corrupt memory... _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ... | Mathieu Bouchard - tél:+1.514.383.3801, Montréal QC Canada___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Can you help me with this patch?
On Fri, 26 Oct 2007, Frank Barknecht wrote: Then if you have long-running [until]s that generate stack-overflows, you can work around this by dividing long computations into smaaller chunks with some [delay]s as well. Of course working around stack overflows this way can be even more dangerous, as is illustrated with the [pipe] example in attachement as well. [pipe] also act as an endpoint to depth first travesal just like [delay]. Actually, [delay] and such are doing breadth-first traversal. By putting one or a few [delay]s you get a breadth-first traversal of depth-first components, and if you insert a [delay] in every connection you have a purely breadth-first system. depth-first is based on a stack. breadth-first is based on a queue. I say just that as a different way to explain the concept. It also answers questions like if an execution pattern is not depth-first then else can it be? even though such a question would only be asked by impertinent students who deserves the leather strap. _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ... | Mathieu Bouchard - tél:+1.514.383.3801, Montréal QC Canada___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] big files with textfile
I tried something different, which also did not work: split the files in three parts, each around 100MB and load them to 3 separate textfiles. when I try to load the second file, I get an error saying pd: resizebytes() failed -- out of memory if I try to load the 3rd file after that, my system freezes completely, and I have to reboot. this will be used for an installation, running day and night, so I am using [clear( and will load the files at sime time during night. (it takes about ten seconds to load the file, so I guess I can do that around 1pm). 'if you are not cheating, you are not doing it right.' (I learned that from the last blender camp). marius. Mathieu Bouchard wrote: On Sat, 27 Oct 2007, marius schebella wrote: textfile can handle bigger files than msgfile, but there seems to be a limit, too. I tried to open a 250MB file, and Pd crashed. marius. If you measure bytes using an int32, the limit is 2GB, but if you measure it in bits, the limit is 256MB. [textfile] does read all the file into a buffer as big as the file. I didn't find anything that counts memory in bits, so perhaps it's just a coïncidence and the bug was something else, but I did fix another 256MB limit bug recently by adding parentheses in something like: num_entries * bits_per_entry / 8 When crossing the limit, the numbers become negative, and trying to allocate a negative amount causes the allocator to either abort the process or return NULL or corrupt memory... _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ... | Mathieu Bouchard - tél:+1.514.383.3801, Montréal QC Canada ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] about sexy-ism
On Sat, 2007-10-27 at 17:09 +0900, hard off wrote: i promise never to do this kind of thing again, to be honest, i was kind of amused, though i somehow can see, why people get upset. as long as you guys promise that any future discussions of sexism, or politics, or anything not pd related is kept OT, where it belongs. this is blackmail, isn't it? fair enough eh? no, definitely not. sexism is not OT as long as someone feels the list to be sexist. or in general: a discussion about the list and the way how people use the list cannot be considered OT in the list itself. a discussion is the only way to reach a consensus on this kind of issues, since there is no higher instance (written rules, moderator..), that would make such a discussion obsolete. roman ___ Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] about sexy-ism
On Sat, 27 Oct 2007, Roman Haefeli wrote: no, definitely not. sexism is not OT as long as someone feels the list to be sexist. or in general: a discussion about the list and the way how people use the list cannot be considered OT in the list itself. You think so. If a mailing-list really got out of control, you'd have rules such as forbidden to question mailing-list rules and all of the rest would just go in pd-ot. Anyway... on pd-list a fair amount of off-topic has come to be somewhat normal, given the general postmodern/interdisciplinary/activist/experimental mindframe of the crowd. I'm not so sure that pd-ot would ever take off. It would be a great idea to make it take off and become the flip side of pd-list but I see great difficulty in the discipline of flipping threads from one side to the other and following threads across mailing-lists. It gets even worse if there is any cross-posting between the two. Perhaps pd-ot is not what we need. On Sat, 2007-10-27 at 17:09 +0900, hard off wrote: as long as you guys promise that any future discussions of sexism, or politics, or anything not pd related is kept OT, where it belongs. this is blackmail, isn't it? i think it's closer to dark brown... _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ... | Mathieu Bouchard - tél:+1.514.383.3801, Montréal QC Canada___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] big files with textfile
On Sat, 27 Oct 2007, marius schebella wrote: I tried something different, which also did not work: split the files in three parts, each around 100MB and load them to 3 separate textfiles. when I try to load the second file, I get an error saying pd: resizebytes() failed -- out of memory if I try to load the 3rd file after that, my system freezes completely, and I have to reboot. Is Pd somehow allocating memory in a no-swap zone?... that way, you can run out of memory much more quickly. But this requires root permissions. You may also be running out of general memory. If you don't have a swap file then all your memory is no-swap all of the time. In 32-bit Linux there's a limit of something between 1GB and 3.5GB per process. I don't know exactly how much, but it's not below 1GB for sure. Someone told me he has allocated using 2GB. You'd probably hit an actual memory allocation error much before you actually reach the absolute max, but it certainly wouldn't be below 1GB for sure. So, I'm really puzzled. Does your system have anything special about RAM? any special limits? (settings that say max 256MB per process and such) _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ... | Mathieu Bouchard - tél:+1.514.383.3801, Montréal QC Canada___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Spectrum graphing amplitude problem
On Sat, 27 Oct 2007, Martin Peach wrote: Mathieu Bouchard wrote: You have seen a lot of analog equipment and you know that it does time-wise sampling. analog vs digital is not what we are debating. Analog equipment works continuously in time. Digital is almost always clocked. If your eyes are clocked I'd like to see through them. My point is that analog is also often clocked, so saying that eyes are analog doesn't actually say much on how they work. If we are debating something here it involves a difference between continuous and discrete time systems, which constitutes part of the distinction between analog and digital in common parlance. Yes, and it's only part of the distinction. You have to distinguish between continuous-time analog and discrete-time analog. Photons impinging on my eyes drive the illusion of vision. It's not an illusion. You are really seeing. Perhaps the knowledge of photons seems to you like you lost your childhood conception of vision, but it's still vision. rather the rod or cone is continually integrating the photon flux and outputting a stream of pulses in proportion to the incident intensity; Any camera is integrating the intensity of incoming photons. In case of video cameras it's a quite continuous process, as far as quantum phenomena can be continuous to you. it's at the output that it's discretised. Depending on the exact integration weighting in effect, it will look either more sampled/choppy or more motion-blur. the output is an analog of the input. In the brain the streams of pulses could be interpreted as digital but the streams from all the receptors are not synchronized by a central clock so the overall effect is of a continuous-time system. do you know about asynchronous digital circuits? that said, PWM is not digital, because it's not interpreted as digits, even though the signal may look like a digital signal on the surface. a digital interpretation of a PWM is in effect an ADC. The aliasing is induced by illumination by a periodic light source which the mind interprets using a most likely scenario in which a spoke that reappears closest to one that was previously visible is probably the same spoke. Yes, we agree on that, it was my mistake. _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ... | Mathieu Bouchard - tél:+1.514.383.3801, Montréal QC Canada___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Ableton Live control with Pure Data ¿ReWire ?
good to know. now i have something what i can recommend to my windows friends. http://www.midiox.com/index.htm Am 27.10.2007 um 02:28 schrieb Matthew Logan: ArduinoPdMIDI YokeLive. I'm on Windows and that's what I use. On 10/26/07, Max Neupert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: whoops, i forgot you're on windows - i'm sorry (for the noise). Am 26.10.2007 um 20:23 schrieb Max Neupert: you're thinking too complicated. just use arduino - Pd - MIDI - Live very simple. Am 26.10.2007 um 14:53 schrieb Enrique Tomas: Hi amigos I have a question. I would like to control an Ableton Live version 6 session using my Arduino based interface (under Windows ) . My project is controlling Live with an Arduino. Because Ableton Live doesn't have OSC...(and liveapi.org is down) I think that the only way to do that is ReWire. I have tried to configure Pd in Ableton Live ReWire settings but I can't see Pd as an available input. ReWire is configured because I can see other software as Cubase, Reason, etc. Does anyone have an idea about how to do this? Is there any other option? thanks Qq ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] about sexy-ism
Funny, I think that exact comic came up earlier in this never-ending thread. Very apropos... .hc On Oct 27, 2007, at 7:26 AM, Hannah Drayson wrote: This sums it up for me... http://xkcd.com/322/ ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list It is convenient to imagine a power beyond us because that means we don't have to examine our own lives., from The Idols of Environmentalism, by Curtis White ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] about sexy-ism
fair enough eh? no! we will pardon you only if you release the last version of za-matt. pat ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] big files with textfile
On Oct 27, 2007, at 2:44 PM, Mathieu Bouchard wrote: On Sat, 27 Oct 2007, marius schebella wrote: textfile can handle bigger files than msgfile, but there seems to be a limit, too. I tried to open a 250MB file, and Pd crashed. marius. If you measure bytes using an int32, the limit is 2GB, but if you measure it in bits, the limit is 256MB. [textfile] does read all the file into a buffer as big as the file. I didn't find anything that counts memory in bits, so perhaps it's just a coïncidence and the bug was something else, but I did fix another 256MB limit bug recently by adding parentheses in something like: num_entries * bits_per_entry / 8 When crossing the limit, the numbers become negative, and trying to allocate a negative amount causes the allocator to either abort the process or return NULL or corrupt memory... If this is a bug in Pd, it would be great if you submitting a patch, or at least posted more info here. .hc kill your television ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] big files with textfile
On Sat, 27 Oct 2007, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: On Oct 27, 2007, at 2:44 PM, Mathieu Bouchard wrote: When crossing the limit, the numbers become negative, and trying to allocate a negative amount causes the allocator to either abort the process or return NULL or corrupt memory... If this is a bug in Pd, it would be great if you submitting a patch, or at least posted more info here. I haven't found the bug if there is one, but I did look for it for a while. I only talked about a similar-looking bug that I had before, which in the end might not be related. _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ... | Mathieu Bouchard - tél:+1.514.383.3801, Montréal QC Canada___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [entry] changes
On Oct 27, 2007, at 11:59 AM, Roman Haefeli wrote: On Sat, 2007-10-27 at 12:02 +0200, Enrique Erne wrote: On Oct 27, 2007, at 5:56 AM, Roman Haefeli wrote: in order to work with pd-ext i had to rename some object in chat and netpd-gui i.e. [l2s] to [zexy/list2symbol] or [netclient] to [maxlib/netclient]. is renaming zexy , maxlib objects with namespace the correct/ only way in pd-extended? hm, i didn't test myself, but since you are using pd-0.40 (extended or not) zexy and maxlib and stuff should be loaded by [declare]. i think currently they are only loaded as externals, which means, for extended we would need to add them as pathes as well (with '-stdpath' instead of '-stdlib'). could you test, if that works? there is no way in renaming all the objets. most of them could be replaced with list-abs :) i tested if [list2symbol] could create and reloaded a test patch with did not create: import zexy declare -path zexy declare -stdlib zexy declare -stdpath zexy declare -path /Applications/Pd-0.40.3-extended-20071026.app/Contents/Resources/ extra/ zexy declare -stdpath /Applications/Pd-0.40.3-extended-20071026.app/Contents/Resources/ extra/ zexy did create: import zexy/list2symbol declare -stdlib zexy/list2symbol on osx 10.3.9 (it's an old cat) with Pd-0.40.3-extended-20071026.app but again. i want to know the official way to load an external in pd-extended. who can answer this or where is it documented? the readme says By default, most of the included libraries are loaded at startup. if import is the way to go what about all helpfiles, do they need to get updated in order to work? in case of netpd, it's not worth to think about [import] at all. netpd won't use it. Any particular objection to [import]? It's an external like any other. If you use list2symbol, etc. because it solves problems, I don't see a reason to ignore [import]. .hc I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. - General Smedley Butler ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [entry] changes
On Sat, 2007-10-27 at 17:48 -0400, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: On Oct 27, 2007, at 11:59 AM, Roman Haefeli wrote: On Sat, 2007-10-27 at 12:02 +0200, Enrique Erne wrote: On Oct 27, 2007, at 5:56 AM, Roman Haefeli wrote: in order to work with pd-ext i had to rename some object in chat and netpd-gui i.e. [l2s] to [zexy/list2symbol] or [netclient] to [maxlib/netclient]. is renaming zexy , maxlib objects with namespace the correct/ only way in pd-extended? hm, i didn't test myself, but since you are using pd-0.40 (extended or not) zexy and maxlib and stuff should be loaded by [declare]. i think currently they are only loaded as externals, which means, for extended we would need to add them as pathes as well (with '-stdpath' instead of '-stdlib'). could you test, if that works? there is no way in renaming all the objets. most of them could be replaced with list-abs :) i tested if [list2symbol] could create and reloaded a test patch with did not create: import zexy declare -path zexy declare -stdlib zexy declare -stdpath zexy declare -path /Applications/Pd-0.40.3-extended-20071026.app/Contents/Resources/ extra/ zexy declare -stdpath /Applications/Pd-0.40.3-extended-20071026.app/Contents/Resources/ extra/ zexy did create: import zexy/list2symbol declare -stdlib zexy/list2symbol on osx 10.3.9 (it's an old cat) with Pd-0.40.3-extended-20071026.app but again. i want to know the official way to load an external in pd-extended. who can answer this or where is it documented? the readme says By default, most of the included libraries are loaded at startup. if import is the way to go what about all helpfiles, do they need to get updated in order to work? in case of netpd, it's not worth to think about [import] at all. netpd won't use it. Any particular objection to [import]? It's an external like any other. If you use list2symbol, etc. because it solves problems, I the main objection is that it is an external, that has an equivalent now in plain pd. why use an external then? and i didn't know that it is simply an external, i thought it would only work with pd-extended because of some adapted code there. is that wrong? roman ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [entry] changes
On Oct 27, 2007, at 7:56 PM, Roman Haefeli wrote: On Sat, 2007-10-27 at 17:48 -0400, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: On Oct 27, 2007, at 11:59 AM, Roman Haefeli wrote: On Sat, 2007-10-27 at 12:02 +0200, Enrique Erne wrote: On Oct 27, 2007, at 5:56 AM, Roman Haefeli wrote: in order to work with pd-ext i had to rename some object in chat and netpd-gui i.e. [l2s] to [zexy/list2symbol] or [netclient] to [maxlib/netclient]. is renaming zexy , maxlib objects with namespace the correct/ only way in pd-extended? hm, i didn't test myself, but since you are using pd-0.40 (extended or not) zexy and maxlib and stuff should be loaded by [declare]. i think currently they are only loaded as externals, which means, for extended we would need to add them as pathes as well (with '-stdpath' instead of '-stdlib'). could you test, if that works? there is no way in renaming all the objets. most of them could be replaced with list-abs :) i tested if [list2symbol] could create and reloaded a test patch with did not create: import zexy declare -path zexy declare -stdlib zexy declare -stdpath zexy declare -path /Applications/Pd-0.40.3-extended-20071026.app/Contents/Resources/ extra/ zexy declare -stdpath /Applications/Pd-0.40.3-extended-20071026.app/Contents/Resources/ extra/ zexy did create: import zexy/list2symbol declare -stdlib zexy/list2symbol on osx 10.3.9 (it's an old cat) with Pd-0.40.3- extended-20071026.app but again. i want to know the official way to load an external in pd-extended. who can answer this or where is it documented? the readme says By default, most of the included libraries are loaded at startup. if import is the way to go what about all helpfiles, do they need to get updated in order to work? in case of netpd, it's not worth to think about [import] at all. netpd won't use it. Any particular objection to [import]? It's an external like any other. If you use list2symbol, etc. because it solves problems, I the main objection is that it is an external, that has an equivalent now in plain pd. why use an external then? If it made your life easier somehow, otherwise no. and i didn't know that it is simply an external, i thought it would only work with pd-extended because of some adapted code there. is that wrong? Yes, it's just an external, but it doesn't work with versions of Pd older than 0.40.2. .hc roman ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http:// messenger.yahoo.de All information should be free. - the hacker ethic ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
