Re: [PD] rradical hierarchy
Hallo, Phil Stone hat gesagt: // Phil Stone wrote: As I understand it, rradical builds up a tree of directories created by individual [originator directoryName $0] objects. Within each of these directories, one can have an arbitrary number of one-level-down directories (for instance, in my case I use a preset number to access the subdirectory). The hierarchy ends up looking something like this (the number in the second column is the preset): /final_filter 0 , /enable , 1 /final_filter 0 , /freq , 0.543263 /final_filter 0 , /qfactor , 0.31746 /final_filter 1 , /enable , 1 /final_filter 1 , /freq , 0.929158 /final_filter 1 , /qfactor , 0.509524 /lfo_filter 0 , /enable ,1 /lfo_filter 0 , /wave ,sine /lfo_filter 0 , /freq ,100 /lfo_filter 1 , /enable ,0 /lfo_filter 1 , /wave ,sine /lfo_filter 1 , /freq ,0 . . other parameters As you can see, it's organized by originator-name, then preset number, then the key/value pair. This makes it very difficult to access presets as units for copy, pasting, etc. For these purposes, the ideal organization would be something like: (preset number) / (originator) / (key/value pair) One could then easily edit a preset as a logical unit. The current configuration makes it easy to edit all of one type of parameter across all presets, but this seems much less useful than the converse. There is a little modification of [originator] by Luke, which is pending to be included in the official Memento and which implements saving and restoring presets for each [originator] separately. Luke also made his modification available somewhere in SVN, I don't remember the name currently, I guess something like semento. As soon as I've catched up all the loose ends after LAC2008, I'll include it. Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org__ ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] msd change mass of mass
Hi marius and others, Adding the setM function should not be difficult. I've no time to do that at the moment, but if someone with a cvs access wants to add it feel free to do so. Otherwise, I could do it in a few days. I'll keep you aware of the evolution. Greetings, Nicolas marius schebella a écrit : hi, is someone working on msd? I wonder why it is not possible to change the mass of a mass dynamically with something like [setMass m1 1.5( is this function not supported because it is not possible, or just because it was not implemented yet. marius. ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- http://nicomon.basseslumieres.org ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Box Muller Gaussian noise - Rain Sound
Hi Andy, Andy Farnell wrote: JFYI the application is rainfall. Many papers I read describe rainfall as Gaussian. maybe mine is a simplistic approach, but shouldn't this be one of the cases in which measuring the spectrum of true rainfall sounds and trying to emulate it with one of spectrum matching techniques provides a good approach? I know from physical analysis that raindrops are uniform in size and velocity for any local sample, so I've realised this distribution is about how they fall within an area and pondering how a distribution can be Gaussian in 2D. Do they take into account the fact that near drops have high frequency content which far ones have high frequency attenuation (and they sum together)? Just thinking... Which references do you have about this issue? Several months ago I wrote a patch for the generation of colored noise, maybe it can be helful here... https://puredata.info/Members/AlbertoZ/ColoredNoise/ AlbertoZ --- http://puredata.org/Members/AlbertoZ http://alberto.zin.googlepages.com/ ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] autotune / pitch correction
Hi Carlos, the code is a bit messy... nevertheless it works! No problem! Thanks for the patch. Looks great! If you introduce any improvement, please let me know! Yes! I will definitely give it a shot this week! http://www.celemony.com/cms/index.php?id=dna ..really interesting. i had never heard of this before. ill check the demo out! Thanks for the link and patch! Cheers mark --- Carlos E. Hidalgo Nieto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mark Edward Grimm wrote: i am just wondering it anyone has implemented an 'autotune' / pitch correction type patch in PD for audio input Hello Mark and list! A few months ago I made an approach to an automatic pitch correction patch, like the autotune. I'm just a newbie, so I'm afraid the code is a bit messy... nevertheless it works! In the attached patch you can select the 'scale' of notes, as you said, and set a coefficient for the level of correction. A coefficient of 100 makes the 'cher effect', and with 50 - 60 you get a natural voice. If you introduce any improvement, please let me know! By the way, related to pitch detection and correction, i'm very impressed with this: http://www.celemony.com/cms/index.php?id=dna It's a polyphonic pitch detection and correction software... wow! Does anyone in the list know something about the secret behind this kind of magic??? ;-) Carlos ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list mark edward grimm | m.f.a | ed.m syracuse u. | vpa foundations | timearts adjunct | new media consultant megrimm.net | socialmediagroup.org .com [EMAIL PROTECTED] | 585.509.8703 ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] conflict between PD and tascam us-122 (stefano tedesco)
hi, i've done what you told me at sturt up it says -audiobuf 20 -blocksize 256: can't load library don't know stefano On 17 Mar 2008, at 12:00, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Today's Topics: 1. Re: conflict between PD and tascam us-122 (Hans Roels) 2. Re: rradical hierarchy (Frank Barknecht) 3. Re: msd change mass of mass (Nicolas Montgermont) -- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 09:52:51 +0100 From: Hans Roels [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [PD] conflict between PD and tascam us-122 To: Stefano Tedesco [EMAIL PROTECTED],pd-list@iem.at Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Hello, I had a problem with the Tascam us-122L and I solved it by changing the blocksize and the latency. I wrote this in the startup settings: -audiobuf 20 -blocksize 256 I am using several of these cards in a school and they work more or less (with apple os 10.3.9) but I have to start the computer without the audio card attached ! (and even then the midi in sometimes suddenly stops). PD and Audacity work well but using the tascam as the standard audio card (for example to play a cd on these computers) never works... Hans r At 20:51 16/03/2008, Stefano Tedesco wrote: Hi, I'm having problem between PD and the audio interface Tascam us-122. There is some kind of conflict. It works fine without the audio interface but when I plug the interface, the sounds comes out like some kind of buffering...don't know what...just on and off, instead without it it works fine. I've tried to set the latency as I've been told but nothing...still have problems. Anyone had the same problem and how did he fix it? or suggestions? Thank you very much Stefano ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 09:13:59 +0100 From: Frank Barknecht [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [PD] rradical hierarchy To: pd-list@iem.at Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hallo, Phil Stone hat gesagt: // Phil Stone wrote: As I understand it, rradical builds up a tree of directories created by individual [originator directoryName $0] objects. Within each of these directories, one can have an arbitrary number of one-level-down directories (for instance, in my case I use a preset number to access the subdirectory). The hierarchy ends up looking something like this (the number in the second column is the preset): /final_filter 0 , /enable , 1 /final_filter 0 , /freq , 0.543263 /final_filter 0 , /qfactor , 0.31746 /final_filter 1 , /enable , 1 /final_filter 1 , /freq , 0.929158 /final_filter 1 , /qfactor , 0.509524 /lfo_filter 0 , /enable ,1 /lfo_filter 0 , /wave ,sine /lfo_filter 0 , /freq ,100 /lfo_filter 1 , /enable ,0 /lfo_filter 1 , /wave ,sine /lfo_filter 1 , /freq ,0 . . other parameters As you can see, it's organized by originator-name, then preset number, then the key/value pair. This makes it very difficult to access presets as units for copy, pasting, etc. For these purposes, the ideal organization would be something like: (preset number) / (originator) / (key/value pair) One could then easily edit a preset as a logical unit. The current configuration makes it easy to edit all of one type of parameter across all presets, but this seems much less useful than the converse. There is a little modification of [originator] by Luke, which is pending to be included in the official Memento and which implements saving and restoring presets for each [originator] separately. Luke also made his modification available somewhere in SVN, I don't remember the name currently, I guess something like semento. As soon as I've catched up all the loose ends after LAC2008, I'll include it. Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org__ -- Message: 3 Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 11:20:06 +0100 From: Nicolas Montgermont [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [PD] msd change mass of mass To: marius schebella [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: pd-list@iem.at pd-list@iem.at Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Hi marius and others, Adding the setM function should not be difficult. I've no time to do that at the moment, but if someone with a cvs access wants to add it feel free to do so. Otherwise, I could do it in a few days. I'll keep you aware of the evolution. Greetings, Nicolas marius schebella a ?crit : hi, is someone working on msd? I wonder why it is not possible to change the mass of a mass dynamically with something like [setMass m1 1.5( is this function not supported because it is not possible, or just
Re: [PD] Box Muller Gaussian noise - Rain Sound
Hey Alberto, Thanks for the ideas. What this bit is for.. its not the noisy background you get to rain, 1/x noise (everyone loves that sound, sometimes called comfort noise), but I'm looking at the effect of very light rain when it's on your window and you can hear every individual drop. Apart from the soft pressure signature something else tells you it's rain within a few seconds, and that's the distribution For analysis of the droplet signature COMPUTATIONAL REAL-TIME SOUND SYNTHESIS OF RAIN by Stanley J. Miklavcic, Andreas Zita and Per Arvidsson Those guys go straight for a cheeky physical model via the wave equation. Outrageous overkill, but great to know. Many papers from environmental scientists on spectra, because listening to the spectra and intensity underwater we can measure rainfall out at sea (to predict storms, as well as using RADAR and satelites). So I collect stuff like this too Intercomparison of ambient acoustic spectra in inland and coastal waters (Quartly, Shannon, Guymer, Birch Campbell) What would be nice are other studies of rain sound done from different perspectives (artistic, musical, etc) good wishes, Andy On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 12:24:44 +0100 [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Andy, Andy Farnell wrote: JFYI the application is rainfall. Many papers I read describe rainfall as Gaussian. maybe mine is a simplistic approach, but shouldn't this be one of the cases in which measuring the spectrum of true rainfall sounds and trying to emulate it with one of spectrum matching techniques provides a good approach? I know from physical analysis that raindrops are uniform in size and velocity for any local sample, so I've realised this distribution is about how they fall within an area and pondering how a distribution can be Gaussian in 2D. Do they take into account the fact that near drops have high frequency content which far ones have high frequency attenuation (and they sum together)? Just thinking... Which references do you have about this issue? Several months ago I wrote a patch for the generation of colored noise, maybe it can be helful here... https://puredata.info/Members/AlbertoZ/ColoredNoise/ AlbertoZ --- http://puredata.org/Members/AlbertoZ http://alberto.zin.googlepages.com/ ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- Use the source ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Box Muller Gaussian noise
Hey Andy, On 16/03/2008, at 23.12, Andy Farnell wrote: I just neatened that up into an abstration + help Thanks for wrapping it up. All vanilla I don't think [ln~] is vanilla. But [expr~ ln($v1)] could maybe do, as it's shipped with vanilla. Best, Steffen ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Box Muller Gaussian noise
Okay thanks for nfo. @ Miller, please, could we get [abs~] and [ln~] into vanilla. I think we all agree they are bread and butter objects. cheers, Andy On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 16:59:08 +0100 Steffen Juul [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey Andy, On 16/03/2008, at 23.12, Andy Farnell wrote: I just neatened that up into an abstration + help Thanks for wrapping it up. All vanilla I don't think [ln~] is vanilla. But [expr~ ln($v1)] could maybe do, as it's shipped with vanilla. Best, Steffen -- Use the source ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Box Muller Gaussian noise
On Mon, 2008-03-17 at 16:21 +, Andy Farnell wrote: @ Miller, please, could we get [abs~] and [ln~] into vanilla. I think we all agree they are bread and butter objects. i do agree. btw: thank you all for this very interesting thread. it was very insightful. i really liked following it, although i didn't actively participate. roman ___ Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Box Muller Gaussian noise
Andy Farnell wrote: Okay thanks for nfo. @ Miller, please, could we get [abs~] and [ln~] into vanilla. I think we all agree they are bread and butter objects. and ~, =~, ~, =~ thnks, marius. ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] FWIW: Box Muller Gaussian noise
FWIW here's a C subroutine with a little 'main' routine for testing, I
did a few years ago for the Box Muller method, pretty much directly
based upon what I read in Numerical Recipes. The text of the section in
Num.Recip. Is a very clear explanation of it , I find , your mileage may
vary!
1 #include math.h
2 #include stdio.h
3 #include machine.h just neds to choose datatype CA_FLOAT
as double or float or other real-type value
- and define LOG accordingly... Can be
gotten rid of with some small edits.
4
5 /*
6BOX-MULLER routine for returning a random number normally
distributed
7about a mean of zero, with a standard deviation of 1. Adapted
from Numerical Recipes in C by Press and Flannery.
8 */
9
10 CA_FLOAT box_muller ()
11 {
12 static int flag = 0;
13 static CA_FLOAT gset = 0;
14 CA_FLOAT v1, v2, fac, gdev, r;
15
16 if (!flag) {
17 do {
18 v1 = 2 * drand48 () - 1;
19 v2 = 2 * drand48 () - 1;
20 r = v1 * v1 + v2 * v2;
21 } while (r = 1 || r == 0);
22 fac = sqrt ((-2 * LOG (r) / r));
23 gset = v1 * fac;
24 gdev = v2 * fac;
25 flag = 1;
26 } else {
27 gdev = gset;
28 flag = 0;
29 }
30 return (gdev);
31 } /* end of box_muller */
32
33 /* return gaussian devates for a given mean and standard
deviation */
34 /* by calling the box_muller routine. */
35
36 CA_FLOAT gaussdev (CA_FLOAT * params)
37 {
38 CA_FLOAT stdev;
39 CA_FLOAT mean;
40
41 if (params == NULL || (params + 1) == NULL) {
42 fprintf (stderr, ERROR: gaussdev: You messed up, NULL
pointer here.\n);
43 exit (1);
44 }
45
46 mean = params[0];
47 stdev = params[1];
48 return ((stdev * box_muller ()) + mean);
49 }
50
51 #ifdef TEST_BOX_MULLER
52 void main ()
53 {
54 int i;
55 CA_FLOAT stdev = 2;
56 CA_FLOAT mean = 10;
57 CA_FLOAT params[2];
58
59 params[0] = mean;
60 params[1] = stdev;
61 for (i = 0; i 1; i++) {
62 printf (%.5g\n, gaussdev (params));
63 }
64
65 }
66 #endif
67
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Andy Farnell
Sent: 16 March 2008 15:31
To: pd-list@iem.at
Subject: [PD] Box Muller Gaussian noise
Could a stats mathematician please help me check this. (attached)
I'm following the Box Muller formula for getting a cheap Gaussian
distribution (instead of adding up 12 sources a la central
limit method).
http://www.dspguru.com/howto/tech/wgn.htm
Does this look right?
Also, I have no idea how to check the distribution. It sounds
the same as
uniform noise and looks the same in the spectrograph? What gives?
Do I need to average over a very long time or something to see any
difference?
Cheers all,
Andy
--
Use the source
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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] inside the wave
Do you have any pics or video of this installation? .hc On Mar 9, 2008, at 3:57 PM, Jaime Oliver wrote: I was about to offer you a beer... I've read you too much without actually talking. J On Sun, Mar 9, 2008 at 12:16 PM, marius schebella [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: no, I haven't been there at all! we met in NYC, and then I did the programming in new york, and nina set it up in san diego. m. Jaime Oliver wrote: Are you still in san diego? On Sun, Mar 9, 2008 at 11:51 AM, marius schebella [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hi, I did some Pd programming for an exhibition in the San Diego Museum of Art. http://www.sdmart.org/exhibition-future.html#inside-the-wave. I worked with Nina Waisman from the particle group and the sound installation is part of a bigger concept about nanotechnology. It is based on work we did last year for Berlin and will be up until June 22. more information at nina's site http://www.ninawaisman.net including a demo video http://www.ninawaisman.net/nano/nanoEmbed.html. marius. ___ PD-announce mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-announce ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- -- ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list -- Jaime E Oliver LR [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.realidadvisual.org/jaimeoliver www-crca.ucsd.edu/ www.realidadvisual.org 9168 Regents Rd. Apt. G La Jolla, CA 92037 USA ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. - General Smedley Butler ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [PD-announce] inside the wave
not from the san diego version. nina waisman put a video online from berlin. http://www.ninawaisman.net/nano/nanoEmbed.html marius. Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: Do you have any pics or video of this installation? .hc On Mar 9, 2008, at 3:57 PM, Jaime Oliver wrote: I was about to offer you a beer... I've read you too much without actually talking. J On Sun, Mar 9, 2008 at 12:16 PM, marius schebella [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: no, I haven't been there at all! we met in NYC, and then I did the programming in new york, and nina set it up in san diego. m. Jaime Oliver wrote: Are you still in san diego? On Sun, Mar 9, 2008 at 11:51 AM, marius schebella [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hi, I did some Pd programming for an exhibition in the San Diego Museum of Art. http://www.sdmart.org/exhibition-future.html#inside-the-wave. I worked with Nina Waisman from the particle group and the sound installation is part of a bigger concept about nanotechnology. It is based on work we did last year for Berlin and will be up until June 22. more information at nina's site http://www.ninawaisman.net including a demo video http://www.ninawaisman.net/nano/nanoEmbed.html. marius. ___ PD-announce mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-announce ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- Jaime E Oliver LR [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.realidadvisual.org/jaimeoliver www-crca.ucsd.edu/ www.realidadvisual.org 9168 Regents Rd. Apt. G La Jolla, CA 92037 USA ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. - General Smedley Butler ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [PD-announce] inside the wave
Nice sounds, what are you using to create that? .hc On Mar 17, 2008, at 2:50 PM, marius schebella wrote: not from the san diego version. nina waisman put a video online from berlin. http://www.ninawaisman.net/nano/nanoEmbed.html marius. Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: Do you have any pics or video of this installation? .hc On Mar 9, 2008, at 3:57 PM, Jaime Oliver wrote: I was about to offer you a beer... I've read you too much without actually talking. J On Sun, Mar 9, 2008 at 12:16 PM, marius schebella [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: no, I haven't been there at all! we met in NYC, and then I did the programming in new york, and nina set it up in san diego. m. Jaime Oliver wrote: Are you still in san diego? On Sun, Mar 9, 2008 at 11:51 AM, marius schebella [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hi, I did some Pd programming for an exhibition in the San Diego Museum of Art. http://www.sdmart.org/exhibition-future.html#inside-the- wave. I worked with Nina Waisman from the particle group and the sound installation is part of a bigger concept about nanotechnology. It is based on work we did last year for Berlin and will be up until June 22. more information at nina's site http://www.ninawaisman.net including a demo video http://www.ninawaisman.net/nano/nanoEmbed.html. marius. ___ PD-announce mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-announce ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http:// lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- Jaime E Oliver LR [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.realidadvisual.org/jaimeoliver www-crca.ucsd.edu/ www.realidadvisual.org 9168 Regents Rd. Apt. G La Jolla, CA 92037 USA ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list - --- I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. - General Smedley Butler [W]e have invented the technology to eliminate scarcity, but we are deliberately throwing it away to benefit those who profit from scarcity.-John Gilmore ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] NRCI - Networked Resources for Collaborative Improvisation
Looks interesting. Have you done anything with mDNS (aka Bonjour) for advertising and finding network services? There is some code lying around for doing this, but I don't think it's fully functional yet. .hc On Mar 11, 2008, at 1:08 PM, Greg Surges wrote: Hey all, Just wanted to post a link to a project I've been co-developing for a while now. NRCI is a set of PD abstractions to allow for sharing control data over a standard TCP/IP network. It's been designed for MiLO, the Milwaukee Laptop Orchestra. Thought people might be interested, and I'm anxious for any suggestions or comments! Here's the link. Thanks! -Greg Surges -- http://www.uwm.edu/~gssurges/ ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list All information should be free. - the hacker ethic ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] NRCI - Networked Resources for Collaborative Improvisation
I haven't seen it before, but we've been puzzling over whether or not some sort of handshake protocol is possible over OSC. It'd be great to be able to have the patch automatically initialize itself to listen to an arbitrary data-type being broadcast. Apparently there's something in the OSC protocol which allows this, but I haven't seen a PD implementation. Maybe that could be a Summer of Code project? -Greg On Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 1:50 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Looks interesting. Have you done anything with mDNS (aka Bonjour) for advertising and finding network services? There is some code lying around for doing this, but I don't think it's fully functional yet. .hc On Mar 11, 2008, at 1:08 PM, Greg Surges wrote: Hey all, Just wanted to post a link to a project I've been co-developing for a while now. NRCI is a set of PD abstractions to allow for sharing control data over a standard TCP/IP network. It's been designed for MiLO, the Milwaukee Laptop Orchestra. Thought people might be interested, and I'm anxious for any suggestions or comments! Here's the link http://ccrma.stanford.edu/%7Ecburns/NRCI/. Thanks! -Greg Surges -- http://www.uwm.edu/~gssurges/ http://www.uwm.edu/%7Egssurges/ ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list All information should be free. - the hacker ethic -- http://www.uwm.edu/~gssurges/ ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] [PD-announce] pd 0.41-4 (bug fix) release
I fixed some more bugs... latest is 0.41-4 on the usual: The most serious recent bugs were causing occasional crashes starting and stopping DSP on huge patches, and some audio devices weren't showing up on the dialogs on windows machines. http://crca.ucsd.edu/~msp/software.htm cheers Miller ___ PD-announce mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-announce ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] conflict between PD and tascam us-122
You can change the blocksize in the menu File startup startup flags(in windows; in Mac it's under preferences if I remember well). Type something like -audiobuf 20 -blocksize 256 Then press 'save settings' and close and restart PD. 20 is the latency or audio buffer and 256 is the blocksize. Try out 64, 128 or 256 as blocksize and try out different values for the audio buffer (depending on your audiocard and computer) best hans r At 14:06 17/03/2008, you wrote: Hi, first of all thanks. i know how to change the latency in PD and Tascam. but i can't find the blocksize. where is it? i found this http://crca.ucsd.edu/~msp/Pd_documentation/x3.htm but i can't find how to change it sorry about this. best s On 17 Mar 2008, at 09:52, Hans Roels wrote: Hello, I had a problem with the Tascam us-122L and I solved it by changing the blocksize and the latency. I wrote this in the startup settings: -audiobuf 20 -blocksize 256 I am using several of these cards in a school and they work more or less (with apple os 10.3.9) but I have to start the computer without the audio card attached ! (and even then the midi in sometimes suddenly stops). PD and Audacity work well but using the tascam as the standard audio card (for example to play a cd on these computers) never works... Hans r At 20:51 16/03/2008, Stefano Tedesco wrote: Hi, I'm having problem between PD and the audio interface Tascam us-122. There is some kind of conflict. It works fine without the audio interface but when I plug the interface, the sounds comes out like some kind of buffering...don't know what...just on and off, instead without it it works fine. I've tried to set the latency as I've been told but nothing...still have problems. Anyone had the same problem and how did he fix it? or suggestions? Thank you very much Stefano ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] 'apple' lib for controlling hardware and getting sensor data
Hey, I just finished of a quick library of functions for controlling some of the hardware features on Apple computers when running under Mac OS X. So far, I have been able to control the screen brightness; control the keyboard backlight brightness and fade time; get data from the sudden motion sensor or built-in accelerometer; and get data from the built-in light sensors. It's included in the nightly builds as the 'apple' library, check 5.reference - apple in the Help Browser for help patches. Also, this should be pretty easy to do for other computers. For example, the Thinkpad features are pretty well documented under Windows and GNU/Linux: http://www.almaden.ibm.com/cs/people/marksmith/tpaps.html http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-knockage.html http://www.almaden.ibm.com/cs/people/marksmith/sdl.html http://www.gnome.org/~fherrera/gtollina.c Or for Apple hardware, there is pbbuttonsd: http://pbbuttons.berlios.de/ .hc ¡El pueblo unido jamás será vencido! ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [PD-announce] inside the wave
the sounds and the overall concept was done by nina waisman, and I think most of the sounds are recordings, only very few are Pd, no real time generation. Pd does the interaction with the sensors, stretching, pitching, granulating, and panning in space (was tricky enough to do everything on one machine). m. Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: Nice sounds, what are you using to create that? .hc On Mar 17, 2008, at 2:50 PM, marius schebella wrote: not from the san diego version. nina waisman put a video online from berlin. http://www.ninawaisman.net/nano/nanoEmbed.html marius. Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: Do you have any pics or video of this installation? .hc On Mar 9, 2008, at 3:57 PM, Jaime Oliver wrote: I was about to offer you a beer... I've read you too much without actually talking. J On Sun, Mar 9, 2008 at 12:16 PM, marius schebella [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: no, I haven't been there at all! we met in NYC, and then I did the programming in new york, and nina set it up in san diego. m. Jaime Oliver wrote: Are you still in san diego? On Sun, Mar 9, 2008 at 11:51 AM, marius schebella [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hi, I did some Pd programming for an exhibition in the San Diego Museum of Art. http://www.sdmart.org/exhibition-future.html#inside-the-wave. I worked with Nina Waisman from the particle group and the sound installation is part of a bigger concept about nanotechnology. It is based on work we did last year for Berlin and will be up until June 22. more information at nina's site http://www.ninawaisman.net including a demo video http://www.ninawaisman.net/nano/nanoEmbed.html. marius. ___ PD-announce mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-announce ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- Jaime E Oliver LR [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.realidadvisual.org/jaimeoliver www-crca.ucsd.edu/ www.realidadvisual.org 9168 Regents Rd. Apt. G La Jolla, CA 92037 USA ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. - General Smedley Butler [W]e have invented the technology to eliminate scarcity, but we are deliberately throwing it away to benefit those who profit from scarcity.-John Gilmore ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] rradical hierarchy
Luke, Could you clarify this? I looked through controctopus/semento, as you uploaded it last month, to see if it had re-structured the hierarchy to make substates more editable, but I'm having a little difficulty figuring it out (do you have any relatively simple working examples?) I find that powerful and complex PD systems such as memento/rradical are very difficult to understand without a little more documentation. When I try to follow what's going on inside of [originator] (both in original memento and in semento), I rapidly get lost. I'm not a total newbie when it comes to reading and understanding PD code, but stuff like this really needs a few more comments, I think! :-) Please don't get me wrong, I'm extremely grateful for the work that has gone into this amazing code; I'm just having trouble working with it in any but a very superficial way. I think memento (and possibly semento) go a long way to solving the problem of state-saving in PD -- I'd like to see them more widely used, too. Phil Frank Barknecht wrote: Hallo, Phil Stone hat gesagt: // Phil Stone wrote: As I understand it, rradical builds up a tree of directories created by individual [originator directoryName $0] objects. Within each of these directories, one can have an arbitrary number of one-level-down directories (for instance, in my case I use a preset number to access the subdirectory). The hierarchy ends up looking something like this (the number in the second column is the preset): /final_filter 0 , /enable , 1 /final_filter 0 , /freq , 0.543263 /final_filter 0 , /qfactor , 0.31746 /final_filter 1 , /enable , 1 /final_filter 1 , /freq , 0.929158 /final_filter 1 , /qfactor , 0.509524 /lfo_filter 0 , /enable ,1 /lfo_filter 0 , /wave ,sine /lfo_filter 0 , /freq ,100 /lfo_filter 1 , /enable ,0 /lfo_filter 1 , /wave ,sine /lfo_filter 1 , /freq ,0 . . other parameters As you can see, it's organized by originator-name, then preset number, then the key/value pair. This makes it very difficult to access presets as units for copy, pasting, etc. For these purposes, the ideal organization would be something like: (preset number) / (originator) / (key/value pair) One could then easily edit a preset as a logical unit. The current configuration makes it easy to edit all of one type of parameter across all presets, but this seems much less useful than the converse. There is a little modification of [originator] by Luke, which is pending to be included in the official Memento and which implements saving and restoring presets for each [originator] separately. Luke also made his modification available somewhere in SVN, I don't remember the name currently, I guess something like semento. As soon as I've catched up all the loose ends after LAC2008, I'll include it. Ciao ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] rradical hierarchy
Hallo, Phil Stone hat gesagt: // Phil Stone wrote: I find that powerful and complex PD systems such as memento/rradical are very difficult to understand without a little more documentation. When I try to follow what's going on inside of [originator] (both in original memento and in semento), I rapidly get lost. Understandable, because it's ugly. I'm relucant to touch this myself, fearing I might break things. That's also why I'd rather promote [sssad]. It's not as powerful (yet) but has a much cleaner design that's easier to extend and also more flexible in the long run. I wouldn't recommend to spend a lot of time in [originator]'s internals. Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org__ ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] 'apple' lib for controlling hardware and getting sensor data
nice!!! is the intel autobuild working? marius. Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: Hey, I just finished of a quick library of functions for controlling some of the hardware features on Apple computers when running under Mac OS X. So far, I have been able to control the screen brightness; control the keyboard backlight brightness and fade time; get data from the sudden motion sensor or built-in accelerometer; and get data from the built-in light sensors. It's included in the nightly builds as the 'apple' library, check 5.reference - apple in the Help Browser for help patches. Also, this should be pretty easy to do for other computers. For example, the Thinkpad features are pretty well documented under Windows and GNU/Linux: http://www.almaden.ibm.com/cs/people/marksmith/tpaps.html http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-knockage.html http://www.almaden.ibm.com/cs/people/marksmith/sdl.html http://www.gnome.org/~fherrera/gtollina.c Or for Apple hardware, there is pbbuttonsd: http://pbbuttons.berlios.de/ .hc ¡El pueblo unido jamás será vencido! ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] 'apple' lib for controlling hardware and getting sensor data
Nope, bsoisoi is overbooked at the moment. .hc On Mar 17, 2008, at 5:44 PM, marius schebella wrote: nice!!! is the intel autobuild working? marius. Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: Hey, I just finished of a quick library of functions for controlling some of the hardware features on Apple computers when running under Mac OS X. So far, I have been able to control the screen brightness; control the keyboard backlight brightness and fade time; get data from the sudden motion sensor or built-in accelerometer; and get data from the built-in light sensors. It's included in the nightly builds as the 'apple' library, check 5.reference - apple in the Help Browser for help patches. Also, this should be pretty easy to do for other computers. For example, the Thinkpad features are pretty well documented under Windows and GNU/Linux: http://www.almaden.ibm.com/cs/people/marksmith/tpaps.html http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-knockage.html http://www.almaden.ibm.com/cs/people/marksmith/sdl.html http://www.gnome.org/~fherrera/gtollina.c Or for Apple hardware, there is pbbuttonsd: http://pbbuttons.berlios.de/ .hc - --- ¡El pueblo unido jamás será vencido! ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list 'You people have such restrictive dress for women,’ she said, hobbling away in three inch heels and panty hose to finish out another pink-collar temp pool day. - “Hijab Scene #2, by Mohja Kahf ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] searchpath inside patch
Yes, but you can use the folder name as a prefix, so [abs/myobect] will work on old versions even. .hc On Mar 9, 2008, at 5:06 PM, Achim Bornhoeft wrote: Hi, is the [declare] object only available in PD releases higher 0.40 ? I'm using pd-extended 0.39.3. Achim Frank Barknecht schrieb: Hallo, Claude Heiland-Allen hat gesagt: // Claude Heiland-Allen wrote: I think recent Pd's have a system for adding paths in patches, but I've never used that feature. That system is [declare -path abs/]. It may currently not work inside abstractions. Ciao -- Achim Bornhoeft - Neckarhalde 38, D-72070 Tuebingen -.-. tel/fax +49 (0)7071 942745 -... mobil +49 (0)179 6936930 skype:achim.bornhoeft?call -- ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list News is what people want to keep hidden and everything else is publicity. - Bill Moyers ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] GSoC Organization App 2008 wiki page
that's really bad to hear, especially since iem was already getting money last year. do you think there was a problem with last years projects? Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: A word to everyone for future reference, personal connections are key in getting grants. or maybe supporting pd is useless for google. don't you think they sponsor projects that google can benefit from? maybe next year... marius. ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] GSoC Organization App 2008 wiki page
Hallo! marius schebella schrieb: that's really bad to hear, especially since iem was already getting money last year. do you think there was a problem with last years projects? Maybe there were too few student-applications last year ... or maybe supporting pd is useless for google. don't you think they sponsor projects that google can benefit from? maybe next year... Hm, I don't think so - CLAM and similar other projects are also in. LG Georg ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] rradical hierarchy
I also find [sssad] easier to understand, but I really like the power of [pool] underneath memento (as well as the OSC integration). I suppose [pool] could be used with [sssad] as well. I'd be interested in hearing more of your thoughts on the future of state-saving in PD, Frank (and Luke). Phil Frank Barknecht wrote: Hallo, Phil Stone hat gesagt: // Phil Stone wrote: I find that powerful and complex PD systems such as memento/rradical are very difficult to understand without a little more documentation. When I try to follow what's going on inside of [originator] (both in original memento and in semento), I rapidly get lost. Understandable, because it's ugly. I'm relucant to touch this myself, fearing I might break things. That's also why I'd rather promote [sssad]. It's not as powerful (yet) but has a much cleaner design that's easier to extend and also more flexible in the long run. I wouldn't recommend to spend a lot of time in [originator]'s internals. Ciao ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] Alternate Controllers
Hello all, Over the past few weeks, I have been looking at building a controller for myself, but was curious what other sorts of things others are doing with alternate controllers. What controllers are you using? How are you using them to control your programs? Has anyone considered putting together an Alternate Controllers for PD page? I am just curious if I should build my own, or just use an existing controller... (Also, Hans, the other day you posted about a new controller you have, but I can't find the email... What was that device?) Thanks, Mike -- Peace may sound simple—one beautiful word— but it requires everything we have, every quality, every strength, every dream, every high ideal. —Yehudi Menuhin (1916–1999), musician ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] GSoC Organization App 2008 wiki page
Maybe it's a pecking order thing. After applying two consecutive years we should be in with a much better chance next year (assuming there's some fairness in the review process and history is taken into account) On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 23:53:39 +0100 Georg Holzmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hallo! marius schebella schrieb: that's really bad to hear, especially since iem was already getting money last year. do you think there was a problem with last years projects? Maybe there were too few student-applications last year ... or maybe supporting pd is useless for google. don't you think they sponsor projects that google can benefit from? maybe next year... Hm, I don't think so - CLAM and similar other projects are also in. LG Georg ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- Use the source ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] pd-ext paths, libs and help
On Mar 5, 2008, at 9:57 PM, marius schebella wrote: Roman Haefeli wrote: On Tue, 2008-03-04 at 12:09 -0500, marius schebella wrote: declare -path oscx is also doing nothing. oh, wait! as written in the declare-help.pd, -path is relative to pd, so you have to use: [declare -path oscx] (assuming the folder is pd-path/extra/oscx) roman but that is exaclty what I used! (see 2 lines above...) something is broken with declare. (see mails before). hans, would it be a problem to add all the missing paths to the configuration file of pdxt? adding all these external libraries but not supporting them seems weird. marius. I had a discussion about this with Roman on #dataflow. Basically, having all of the libraries loaded by default isn't a workable long- term solution. Let's say we have two libraries, firstlib and secondlib. firstlib is loaded first, secondlib is loaded second. secondlib has an object called [foo]. It's great and a lot of people use it all the time. It's in lots of patches just as [foo]. The author of firstlib never use secondlib or [foo], then creates an object that does something different, but is called [foo]. Since firstlib is already being loaded first, then firstlib's new [foo] will override secondlib's well-established [foo], and everyone's patches break. So we need to come up with something better. One thing that will always work is having the library load order embedded in each patch. That means a bit more work when writing a patch, but this is how many, many languages handle this problem (python, ruby, Tcl namespaces, C++, etc.). So for this upcoming Pd-extended release, I plan on focusing on this problem and getting import/declare working well. As for missing help files, please write them and submit them to the bug tracker! Or submit a bug report! .hc Mistrust authority - promote decentralization. - the hacker ethic ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] GSoC Organization App 2008 wiki page
I think they want to see more polish on the app. I had a brief conversation with the administrator of GSoC, Leslie Hawthorn: http://puredata.info/dev/summer-of-code/GoogleSummerOfCodeIdeas/ lh: _hc: you made our short list and i have heard good things about you. your ideas could have been fleshed out a lot more though lh: _hc: many ideas did not have any supporting write ups at al. lh: all even _hc: lh: yeah, it we should have put more work into it, but you think the project fits in well with GSoC? lh: _hc: absolutely, we just need more meat from you next time. _hc: lh: yeah, we are pretty chaotic, it was an open wiki, so people just added from the list discussions _hc: lh: is it best then to only have polished ideas on that page? lh: _hc: yes, or indicate that some are not well polished Now that this whole thing is up on puredata.info, it will be much easier to improve upon the application, rather than starting from scratch again. .hc On Mar 17, 2008, at 7:30 PM, Andy Farnell wrote: Maybe it's a pecking order thing. After applying two consecutive years we should be in with a much better chance next year (assuming there's some fairness in the review process and history is taken into account) On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 23:53:39 +0100 Georg Holzmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hallo! marius schebella schrieb: that's really bad to hear, especially since iem was already getting money last year. do you think there was a problem with last years projects? Maybe there were too few student-applications last year ... or maybe supporting pd is useless for google. don't you think they sponsor projects that google can benefit from? maybe next year... Hm, I don't think so - CLAM and similar other projects are also in. LG Georg ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list -- Use the source ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list All mankind is of one author, and is one volume; when one man dies, one chapter is not torn out of the book, but translated into a better language; and every chapter must be so translated -John Donne ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Alternate Controllers
I keep a page of some examples: http://at.or.at/hans/research/nime/hid/examples.html This would be much cooler as a wiki page somewhere. I think it would be a good thing to have somewhere on puredata.info as a wiki page. The controller is called the gametrak. .hc On Mar 17, 2008, at 6:43 PM, Mike McGonagle wrote: Hello all, Over the past few weeks, I have been looking at building a controller for myself, but was curious what other sorts of things others are doing with alternate controllers. What controllers are you using? How are you using them to control your programs? Has anyone considered putting together an Alternate Controllers for PD page? I am just curious if I should build my own, or just use an existing controller... (Also, Hans, the other day you posted about a new controller you have, but I can't find the email... What was that device?) Thanks, Mike -- Peace may sound simple—one beautiful word— but it requires everything we have, every quality, every strength, every dream, every high ideal. —Yehudi Menuhin (1916–1999), musician ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list Access to computers should be unlimited and total. - the hacker ethic ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] pd-ext paths, libs and help
On Mon, 2008-03-17 at 20:09 -0400, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: On Mar 5, 2008, at 9:57 PM, marius schebella wrote: Roman Haefeli wrote: On Tue, 2008-03-04 at 12:09 -0500, marius schebella wrote: declare -path oscx is also doing nothing. oh, wait! as written in the declare-help.pd, -path is relative to pd, so you have to use: [declare -path oscx] (assuming the folder is pd-path/extra/oscx) roman but that is exaclty what I used! (see 2 lines above...) something is broken with declare. (see mails before). oh.. i really shouldn't have had done this mistake... actually there are even two.. blame myself! test again with: [declare -stdpath extra/oscx] if THIS is not working, then write a bug report. this is at least working with pd-vanilla 0.40.3 three times sorry for the unnecessary confusion. roman ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] pd-ext paths, libs and help
hi, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: On Mar 5, 2008, at 9:57 PM, marius schebella wrote: Roman Haefeli wrote: On Tue, 2008-03-04 at 12:09 -0500, marius schebella wrote: declare -path oscx is also doing nothing. oh, wait! as written in the declare-help.pd, -path is relative to pd, so you have to use: [declare -path oscx] (assuming the folder is pd-path/extra/oscx) roman but that is exaclty what I used! (see 2 lines above...) something is broken with declare. (see mails before). hans, would it be a problem to add all the missing paths to the configuration file of pdxt? adding all these external libraries but not supporting them seems weird. marius. I had a discussion about this with Roman on #dataflow. Basically, having all of the libraries loaded by default isn't a workable long-term solution. Let's say we have two libraries, firstlib and secondlib. firstlib is loaded first, secondlib is loaded second. secondlib has an object called [foo]. It's great and a lot of people use it all the time. It's in lots of patches just as [foo]. The author of firstlib never use secondlib or [foo], then creates an object that does something different, but is called [foo]. Since firstlib is already being loaded first, then firstlib's new [foo] will override secondlib's well-established [foo], and everyone's patches break. I think this is a lot of theory, and part of why all this is possible, is because there is no good documentation of existing libraries and objectclasses. I rather would like to fix a problem with one out of 2500 than fixing *every* patches, because 1000 objects are not accessible... I already suggested several times that we should agree on a standard set of objectclasses additionally to vanilla. why can't we have an official list of names that are already in use by some library? So we need to come up with something better. One thing that will always work is having the library load order embedded in each patch. That means a bit more work when writing a patch, but this is how many, many languages handle this problem (python, ruby, Tcl namespaces, C++, etc.). one thing that would help here would be something like from iem load gate. think of how it works in practice: someone wants to share a patch with a list of abstractions and posts it on the mailing list: 10 people test it, 1 has a naming conflict, reports it back, the original author changes the name of the abstraction and done. or you want to open an old patch, that used an abstraction name that now someone has written an external with the same name. you see that your patch is not working anymore, you declare which of your object classes to use, done. again, I am talking about a broad mass of objects that are not accessible to the broad mass of pd-extended users. I am not sure if many pd-extended users would have problems with conflicting namespaces. one more thing that would be useful is if you got a warning if you have a nameclash. you have two versions of gate on your system. Pd is now using the gate version from cyclone. I think pd-extended should be shipped as a clean distribution without nameclashes, objects with nameclashes should be renamed. and help-files should be automatically provided for all objects and all objects should be accessible without directory prefixes... marius. ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] pd-ext paths, libs and help
sorry to say, but this is not working either... the object I am trying to create is [OSCroute]. I can create [oscx/OSCroute], but what I want to accomplish is to avoid the oscx prefix, so I tried [declare -stdpath extra/oscx] [declare -stdpath oscx] [declare -path extra/oscx] [declare -path oscx] [declare -stdlib extra/oscx] [declare -stdlib oscx] [declare -lib extra/oscx] [declare -lib oscx] I even tried [declare -stdpath extra/oscx] in combination with import oscx. and I get a console printout saying [import] loaded library: oscx, but OSCroute ... couldn't create you know what is working? import oscx/OSCroute. but then, I have to add every single object? that method would be good for nameclashes if it would overwrite preexisting classes with that name... will file a but report. oh, and by the way sorry, couldn't find help patch for declare.pd (...no offence, just a bad day) marius. Roman Haefeli wrote: On Mon, 2008-03-17 at 20:09 -0400, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: On Mar 5, 2008, at 9:57 PM, marius schebella wrote: Roman Haefeli wrote: On Tue, 2008-03-04 at 12:09 -0500, marius schebella wrote: declare -path oscx is also doing nothing. oh, wait! as written in the declare-help.pd, -path is relative to pd, so you have to use: [declare -path oscx] (assuming the folder is pd-path/extra/oscx) roman but that is exaclty what I used! (see 2 lines above...) something is broken with declare. (see mails before). oh.. i really shouldn't have had done this mistake... actually there are even two.. blame myself! test again with: [declare -stdpath extra/oscx] if THIS is not working, then write a bug report. this is at least working with pd-vanilla 0.40.3 three times sorry for the unnecessary confusion. roman ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] GSoC Organization App 2008 wiki page
That's sad to hear. A little frustrating since they really only gave a 2.5 week warning for this. I guess I could try to do libPD, get it going on openmoko for: Ambient Noise Detection Wishlist:Software:Ambient_Noise_Detection could be implemented as a D-Bus-utilizing daemon that controls/signals the other daemons according to environmental sound levels. Maybe? :p -martin On Mon, 2008-03-17 at 20:12 -0400, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: I think they want to see more polish on the app. I had a brief conversation with the administrator of GSoC, Leslie Hawthorn: http://puredata.info/dev/summer-of-code/GoogleSummerOfCodeIdeas/ lh: _hc: you made our short list and i have heard good things about you. your ideas could have been fleshed out a lot more though lh: _hc: many ideas did not have any supporting write ups at al. lh: all even _hc: lh: yeah, it we should have put more work into it, but you think the project fits in well with GSoC? lh: _hc: absolutely, we just need more meat from you next time. _hc: lh: yeah, we are pretty chaotic, it was an open wiki, so people just added from the list discussions _hc: lh: is it best then to only have polished ideas on that page? lh: _hc: yes, or indicate that some are not well polished Now that this whole thing is up on puredata.info, it will be much easier to improve upon the application, rather than starting from scratch again. .hc On Mar 17, 2008, at 7:30 PM, Andy Farnell wrote: Maybe it's a pecking order thing. After applying two consecutive years we should be in with a much better chance next year (assuming there's some fairness in the review process and history is taken into account) On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 23:53:39 +0100 Georg Holzmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hallo! marius schebella schrieb: that's really bad to hear, especially since iem was already getting money last year. do you think there was a problem with last years projects? Maybe there were too few student-applications last year ... or maybe supporting pd is useless for google. don't you think they sponsor projects that google can benefit from? maybe next year... Hm, I don't think so - CLAM and similar other projects are also in. LG Georg ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list -- Use the source ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list All mankind is of one author, and is one volume; when one man dies, one chapter is not torn out of the book, but translated into a better language; and every chapter must be so translated -John Donne ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] pd-ext paths, libs and help
On Mar 17, 2008, at 8:36 PM, marius schebella wrote: hi, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: On Mar 5, 2008, at 9:57 PM, marius schebella wrote: Roman Haefeli wrote: On Tue, 2008-03-04 at 12:09 -0500, marius schebella wrote: declare -path oscx is also doing nothing. oh, wait! as written in the declare-help.pd, -path is relative to pd, so you have to use: [declare -path oscx] (assuming the folder is pd-path/extra/oscx) roman but that is exaclty what I used! (see 2 lines above...) something is broken with declare. (see mails before). hans, would it be a problem to add all the missing paths to the configuration file of pdxt? adding all these external libraries but not supporting them seems weird. marius. I had a discussion about this with Roman on #dataflow. Basically, having all of the libraries loaded by default isn't a workable long-term solution. Let's say we have two libraries, firstlib and secondlib. firstlib is loaded first, secondlib is loaded second. secondlib has an object called [foo]. It's great and a lot of people use it all the time. It's in lots of patches just as [foo]. The author of firstlib never use secondlib or [foo], then creates an object that does something different, but is called [foo]. Since firstlib is already being loaded first, then firstlib's new [foo] will override secondlib's well-established [foo], and everyone's patches break. I think this is a lot of theory, and part of why all this is possible, is because there is no good documentation of existing libraries and objectclasses. I rather would like to fix a problem with one out of 2500 than fixing *every* patches, because 1000 objects are not accessible... I already suggested several times that we should agree on a standard set of objectclasses additionally to vanilla. why can't we have an official list of names that are already in use by some library? So we need to come up with something better. One thing that will always work is having the library load order embedded in each patch. That means a bit more work when writing a patch, but this is how many, many languages handle this problem (python, ruby, Tcl namespaces, C++, etc.). one thing that would help here would be something like from iem load gate. think of how it works in practice: someone wants to share a patch with a list of abstractions and posts it on the mailing list: 10 people test it, 1 has a naming conflict, reports it back, the original author changes the name of the abstraction and done. or you want to open an old patch, that used an abstraction name that now someone has written an external with the same name. you see that your patch is not working anymore, you declare which of your object classes to use, done. again, I am talking about a broad mass of objects that are not accessible to the broad mass of pd-extended users. I am not sure if many pd-extended users would have problems with conflicting namespaces. one more thing that would be useful is if you got a warning if you have a nameclash. you have two versions of gate on your system. Pd is now using the gate version from cyclone. I think pd-extended should be shipped as a clean distribution without nameclashes, objects with nameclashes should be renamed. and help-files should be automatically provided for all objects and all objects should be accessible without directory prefixes... All of the objects in Pd-extended are fully accessible, but we need to: a) better document how to access them b) add a search function c) fix the declare/import functionaility If you don't think that name clashes are a common problem, please read the archives about prepend, counter, etc. Günter tried to make a system without duplicate names. In the end it was too much work, and no one wants to do it anymore. If you want it, then do it. This stuff has been talked to death. .hc All mankind is of one author, and is one volume; when one man dies, one chapter is not torn out of the book, but translated into a better language; and every chapter must be so translated -John Donne ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] rradical hierarchy
On Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 2:23 PM, Phil Stone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Luke, Could you clarify this? I looked through controctopus/semento, as you uploaded it last month, to see if it had re-structured the hierarchy to make substates more editable, but I'm having a little difficulty figuring it out (do you have any relatively simple working examples?) Hi Phil, sorry for the delay in responding; I've had my head buried in Controctopus and need time to load Polaroid/Semento back in to my brain : ). But quickly: all you need from Semento is Polaroid, sft.originator and sft.rradical.state. Polaroid's helpfile has a basic description of how the local-state-saving works, but I agree that it could definitely use a nice straightforward example. I'll think about it, whip it up and get back to you. But I will say, I use Polaroid daily and it is really fantastic and worth the initial effort; getting Memento and then Polaroid integrated into my patches really changed how I look at and use Pd. More to come, Luke ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
