Re: [PD] Pd, Gem and Mac OS 10.8

2012-09-27 Thread Max 
capturing from the built in isight works well.
the only problem that i could find is that the menubar is always present, even 
in fullscreen. the menubar 0 message to gemwin makes the dock disappear though.

Am 26.09.2012 um 22:04 schrieb chris clepper cgclep...@gmail.com:

 How's video capture and fullscreen working?
 
 On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 9:18 PM, Max abonneme...@revolwear.com wrote:
 I dared to try this and it seems to run just fine, even Gem does. Just wanted 
 to report this here.
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Re: [PD] managing complex gui

2012-09-27 Thread ronni montoya 
ok thanks, but  how can i set the position of my subpatches windows
from pd? and:
is it possible to turn off the scroll and borders?
any idea?




R.

2012/9/27 ronni montoya ronni.mont...@gmail.com:
 but  how can i set the position of my subpatches windows from pd? and:
 is it possible to turn off the scroll and borders?
 any idea?




 R.

 2012/9/26 IOhannes m zmoelnig zmoel...@iem.at:
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1

 On 2012-09-25 23:53, ronni montoya wrote:
 I forgot to mention that my patch has its gui elements in
 different windows . so  i was wondering : if its possible to
 control the size and position of a group of  windows  or subpatches
 from the language?

 yes it's possible and it's simple.
 however, you have to write code to achieve this yourself, using the
 language Pd.
 check the help-patches for the GUI-elements you are using, and look
 for [pd edit]. you will find all the info you need in there.


 Sending a message in pd in real time?

 ähm, Pd is all about sending messages in real time (and doing a bit of
 audio inbetween)


 fgmasdr
 IOhannes
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[PD] pitched reverb?

2012-09-27 Thread umberto torrez 
hi, Does anybody know if  exists a reveb that allows to tune  to specific
notes? I know that different room dimensions offer different resonating
frequencies, but can this effect be manipulated electronically?
Does anybody know of techniques to achieve it pd?   any idea?


Thanks,


Umberto
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Re: [PD] pitched reverb?

2012-09-27 Thread Claude Heiland-Allen 

Hi,

On 27/09/12 08:58, umberto torrez wrote:

hi, Does anybody know if  exists a reveb that allows to tune  to specific
notes? I know that different room dimensions offer different resonating
frequencies, but can this effect be manipulated electronically?


I tried some 4D room simulation once, releveant files attached, may be 
missing some parts and/or bitrotted - it's from 2008).  Maybe it 
provides some ideas / inspiration / herrings...



Does anybody know of techniques to achieve it pd?   any idea?


http://archive.org/download/ClaudiusMaximus_-_Feed_Me_dia/ClaudiusMaximus_-_The_Seventh_Chamber.ogg
is one sketch I made by changing a reverberating room's shape according 
to a bell-ringing sequence.



Claude
--
http://mathr.co.uk
#N canvas 0 0 558 543 10;
#X obj 20 21 inlet~;
#X obj 237 23 inlet;
#X obj 20 41 delwrite~ \$0-d 1000;
#X obj 18 435 outlet~;
#X obj 237 45 unpack f f f f f f f f f;
#X obj 18 80 delread~ \$0-d;
#X obj 154 131 delread~ \$0-d;
#X obj 164 151 delread~ \$0-d;
#X obj 174 171 delread~ \$0-d;
#X obj 184 191 delread~ \$0-d;
#X obj 194 211 delread~ \$0-d;
#X obj 204 231 delread~ \$0-d;
#X obj 214 251 delread~ \$0-d;
#X obj 224 271 delread~ \$0-d;
#X obj 19 178 *~ 0;
#X obj 129 171 *~ 0;
#X obj 139 191 *~ 0;
#X obj 149 211 *~ 0;
#X obj 159 231 *~ 0;
#X obj 169 251 *~ 0;
#X obj 179 271 *~ 0;
#X obj 189 291 *~ 0;
#X obj 199 311 *~ 0;
#X obj 322 271 expr pow(10 \, -340*$f1/1);
#X obj 252 131 expr pow(10 \, -340*$f1/1);
#X obj 262 151 expr pow(10 \, -340*$f1/1);
#X obj 272 171 expr pow(10 \, -340*$f1/1);
#X obj 282 191 expr pow(10 \, -340*$f1/1);
#X obj 292 211 expr pow(10 \, -340*$f1/1);
#X obj 302 231 expr pow(10 \, -340*$f1/1);
#X obj 312 251 expr pow(10 \, -340*$f1/1);
#X obj 44 103 expr pow(10 \, -340*$f1/1);
#X text 354 294 distance loss (1/r);
#X text 140 381 reflection loss (one reflection);
#X obj 450 25 inlet;
#X obj 128 358 *~ 0;
#X obj 78 435 outlet~;
#X connect 0 0 2 0;
#X connect 1 0 4 0;
#X connect 4 0 5 0;
#X connect 4 0 31 0;
#X connect 4 1 6 0;
#X connect 4 1 24 0;
#X connect 4 2 7 0;
#X connect 4 2 25 0;
#X connect 4 3 8 0;
#X connect 4 3 26 0;
#X connect 4 4 9 0;
#X connect 4 4 27 0;
#X connect 4 5 10 0;
#X connect 4 5 28 0;
#X connect 4 6 11 0;
#X connect 4 6 29 0;
#X connect 4 7 12 0;
#X connect 4 7 30 0;
#X connect 4 8 13 0;
#X connect 4 8 23 0;
#X connect 5 0 14 0;
#X connect 5 0 36 0;
#X connect 6 0 15 0;
#X connect 7 0 16 0;
#X connect 8 0 17 0;
#X connect 9 0 18 0;
#X connect 10 0 19 0;
#X connect 11 0 20 0;
#X connect 12 0 21 0;
#X connect 13 0 22 0;
#X connect 14 0 3 0;
#X connect 15 0 35 0;
#X connect 16 0 35 0;
#X connect 17 0 35 0;
#X connect 18 0 35 0;
#X connect 19 0 35 0;
#X connect 20 0 35 0;
#X connect 21 0 35 0;
#X connect 22 0 35 0;
#X connect 23 0 22 1;
#X connect 24 0 15 1;
#X connect 25 0 16 1;
#X connect 26 0 17 1;
#X connect 27 0 18 1;
#X connect 28 0 19 1;
#X connect 29 0 20 1;
#X connect 30 0 21 1;
#X connect 31 0 14 1;
#X connect 34 0 35 1;
#X connect 35 0 3 0;
--[[

4D early reflection calculation for heref~

--]]

-- utility 4D maths

local v4sub = function(u,v)
  local s = { }
  for i = 1,4 do s[i] = u[i]-v[i] end
  return s
end

local v4mul = function(u,k)
  local s = { }
  for i = 1,4 do s[i] = u[i]*k end
  return s
end

local v4dot = function(u,v)
  local d = 0
  for i = 1,4 do d = d + u[i]*v[i] end
  return d
end

local v4ref = function(x,p)
  local n = p.normal
  local d = p.distance
  return v4sub(x, v4mul(n, 2 * (v4dot(x,n) - d) / v4dot(n,n)))
end

local c = 340 / 1000

local v4time = function(x,y)
  local v = v4sub(x,y)
  local d = v4dot(v,v)
  return math.sqrt(d) / c
end

-- main class

local R = pd.Class:new():register(heref-calc)

function R:initialize(sel, atoms)
  self.inlets = 3
  self.outlets = 1
  return true
end

-- room size
function R:in_3_list(atoms)
  self.wall = {
{ normal = {  1, 0, 0, 0 }, distance = atoms[1] },
{ normal = { -1, 0, 0, 0 }, distance = 0 },
{ normal = { 0,  1, 0, 0 }, distance = atoms[2] },
{ normal = { 0, -1, 0, 0 }, distance = 0 },
{ normal = { 0, 0,  1, 0 }, distance = atoms[3] },
{ normal = { 0, 0, -1, 0 }, distance = 0 },
{ normal = { 0, 0, 0,  1 }, distance = atoms[4] },
{ normal = { 0, 0, 0, -1 }, distance = 0 }
  }
end

-- source position
function R:in_2_list(atoms)
  self.vsource = { atoms }
  for i = 1,8 do table.insert(self.vsource, v4ref(atoms, self.wall[i])) end
end

-- listener position
function R:in_1_list(atoms)
  local herefs = { }
  for i = 1,9 do table.insert(herefs, v4time(atoms, self.vsource[i])) end
  self:outlet(1, list, herefs)
end
#N canvas 0 0 967 676 10;
#X obj 152 273 mtx_*~ 16 16 0 ...;
#X obj 198 80 delread~ \$0-0;
#X obj 208 100 delread~ \$0-1;
#X obj 218 120 delread~ \$0-2;
#X obj 228 140 delread~ \$0-3;
#X obj 238 160 delread~ \$0-4;
#X obj 248 180 delread~ \$0-5;
#X obj 258 200 delread~ \$0-6;
#X obj 268 220 delread~ \$0-7;
#X obj 298 80 delread~ \$0-8;
#X obj 308 100 delread~ \$0-9;
#X

Re: [PD] [OT] Portable webserver with static IP

2012-09-27 Thread IOhannes m zmoelnig 
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 2012-09-12 12:30, Olivier Heinry wrote:
 - or you have to setup a DHCP server on your mobile web server.
 *Big
 mess* if there's already a DHCP server on the network
 (likely).
 Well, as a secondary server, *should* work fine
 

secondary DHCP server?
chances are high, that you will take half of the machines offline with
such a setup.

you never ever should run multiple DHCP-servers in a subnet, unless
you absolutely know what you are doing (which seems to be not the case).
if you absolutely know what you are doing, you probably still won't
run multiple DHCP-servers in a subnet.

mfgasdr
IOhannes
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

iEYEARECAAYFAlBkH9YACgkQkX2Xpv6ydvQDTgCfdRxpz4yp3PO3utTwMWqIu+WK
IiMAoJF2/jZvSHkivx2jTzFpxygveRrw
=cBKF
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Re: [PD] [OT] Portable webserver with static IP

2012-09-27 Thread Pierre Massat 
I ended up using zeroconf on the RPi and installing bonjour on the windows
machine which needed it and it works just fine.

Pierre.

2012/9/27 IOhannes m zmoelnig zmoel...@iem.at

 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1

 On 2012-09-12 12:30, Olivier Heinry wrote:
  - or you have to setup a DHCP server on your mobile web server.
  *Big
  mess* if there's already a DHCP server on the network
  (likely).
  Well, as a secondary server, *should* work fine
 

 secondary DHCP server?
 chances are high, that you will take half of the machines offline with
 such a setup.

 you never ever should run multiple DHCP-servers in a subnet, unless
 you absolutely know what you are doing (which seems to be not the case).
 if you absolutely know what you are doing, you probably still won't
 run multiple DHCP-servers in a subnet.

 mfgasdr
 IOhannes
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
 Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux)
 Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

 iEYEARECAAYFAlBkH9YACgkQkX2Xpv6ydvQDTgCfdRxpz4yp3PO3utTwMWqIu+WK
 IiMAoJF2/jZvSHkivx2jTzFpxygveRrw
 =cBKF
 -END PGP SIGNATURE-


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[PD] loading sounds stops my audio

2012-09-27 Thread xiaoping lyu 
Hi, in pd  loading a sound into a table while pd is making sounds  makes
stops the audio for a few seconds.

Is there a specific way of trick for avoiding this?

any idea would be appreciated.


cheers

Xiao.
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Re: [PD] [OT] Portable webserver with static IP

2012-09-27 Thread Charles Goyard 
Hi,

IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote:
 On 2012-09-12 12:30, Olivier Heinry wrote:
  - or you have to setup a DHCP server on your mobile web server.
  *Big mess* if there's already a DHCP server on the network
  (likely).
  Well, as a secondary server, *should* work fine
 secondary DHCP server?

No, secondary DNS server. In both case it won't work as expected.

 chances are high, that you will take half of the machines offline with
 such a setup.

Sure, hours of fun :).

++
-- 
Charlot

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Re: [PD] loading sounds stops my audio

2012-09-27 Thread Alexandros Drymonitis 
Try to put the table in a subpatch. It should work this way.

On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 1:38 PM, xiaoping lyu xiaoping@gmail.comwrote:

 Hi, in pd  loading a sound into a table while pd is making sounds  makes
 stops the audio for a few seconds.

 Is there a specific way of trick for avoiding this?

 any idea would be appreciated.


 cheers

 Xiao.





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Re: [PD] [OT] Portable webserver with static IP

2012-09-27 Thread Roman Haefeli 
On Don, 2012-09-27 at 11:50 +0200, Pierre Massat wrote:
 I ended up using zeroconf on the RPi and installing bonjour on the
 windows machine which needed it and it works just fine. 

Good to hear. In my opinion, this is the best|recommended solution and
doesn't require additional software except on old Windows machines (and
probably non-Desktop Debian installations).

Roman




 2012/9/27 IOhannes m zmoelnig zmoel...@iem.at
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1
 
 On 2012-09-12 12:30, Olivier Heinry wrote:
  - or you have to setup a DHCP server on your mobile web
 server.
  *Big
  mess* if there's already a DHCP server on the network
  (likely).
  Well, as a secondary server, *should* work fine
 
 
 
 secondary DHCP server?
 chances are high, that you will take half of the machines
 offline with
 such a setup.
 
 you never ever should run multiple DHCP-servers in a subnet,
 unless
 you absolutely know what you are doing (which seems to be not
 the case).
 if you absolutely know what you are doing, you probably still
 won't
 run multiple DHCP-servers in a subnet.
 
 mfgasdr
 IOhannes
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
 Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux)
 Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla -
 http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
 
 iEYEARECAAYFAlBkH9YACgkQkX2Xpv6ydvQDTgCfdRxpz4yp3PO3utTwMWqIu
 +WK
 IiMAoJF2/jZvSHkivx2jTzFpxygveRrw
 =cBKF
 -END PGP SIGNATURE-
 
 
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Re: [PD] loading sounds stops my audio

2012-09-27 Thread Ingo 
Soundfiler interrupts the audiostream. This has been discussed here before.

Ingo


Betreff: Re: [PD] loading sounds stops my audio

Try to put the table in a subpatch. It should work this way.
On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 1:38 PM, xiaoping lyu xiaoping@gmail.com
wrote:
Hi, in pd  loading a sound into a table while pd is making sounds  makes
stops the audio for a few seconds.

Is there a specific way of trick for avoiding this?

any idea would be appreciated.


cheers

Xiao.





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[PD] Sound of earth's magnetosphere

2012-09-27 Thread Pierre Massat 
Is anyone aware of this :
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/cassini/multimedia/pia07966.html
?

:)

Pierre.
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Re: [PD] loading sounds stops my audio

2012-09-27 Thread Roman Haefeli 
There is also a work-around by using [readsf~] within an upsampled
subpatch. Also this work-around has been discussed several times on this
list, so I probably don't need to give any more hints.

(I think, it is even documented in Pd itself)

Roman


On Thu, 2012-09-27 at 14:14 +0200, Ingo wrote:
 Soundfiler interrupts the audiostream. This has been discussed here before.
 
 Ingo
 
 
 Betreff: Re: [PD] loading sounds stops my audio
 
 Try to put the table in a subpatch. It should work this way.
 On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 1:38 PM, xiaoping lyu xiaoping@gmail.com
 wrote:
 Hi, in pd  loading a sound into a table while pd is making sounds  makes
 stops the audio for a few seconds.
 
 Is there a specific way of trick for avoiding this?
 
 any idea would be appreciated.
 
 
 cheers
 
 Xiao.
 
 
 
 
 
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Re: [PD] loading sounds stops my audio

2012-09-27 Thread IOhannes m zmoelnig 
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 2012-09-27 14:45, Roman Haefeli wrote:
 There is also a work-around by using [readsf~] within an upsampled 
 subpatch. Also this work-around has been discussed several times on
 this list, so I probably don't need to give any more hints.

probably those:
http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list
http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.multimedia.puredata.general
http://www.mail-archive.com/pd-list@iem.at/
http://markmail.org/browse/at.iem.pd-list


fgmasdr
IOhannes
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Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

iEYEARECAAYFAlBkTLcACgkQkX2Xpv6ydvQVdACgq45fVhvNC5fG2FqbZn1ImlRT
GOoAnAyL01NHdM7Ah6k/m/jQaZiajU1+
=71Dd
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[PD] [PD-announce] apt.puredata.info is back!

2012-09-27 Thread IOhannes m zmoelnig 
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

last night hans and me finally setup a replacement machine for
apt.puredata.info[1], the ultimate source for Pd-extended on
Debian-based systems (Debian, Ubuntu, Linux/Mint,...)[2].

it is now hosted on the puredata.info portal/mailinglist server,
courtesy of iem.

fgmasdf
IOhannes



[1] http://apt.puredata.info/
[2] http://puredata.info/docs/faq/debian
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iEYEARECAAYFAlBkUPcACgkQkX2Xpv6ydvQbWACgz3R2G1E16kEgWJYYreEYiTTe
3OIAn3pGIKY4rvuVGVNkHjgShDloTi4G
=5vNI
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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] apt.puredata.info is back!

2012-09-27 Thread Lorenzo Sutton 

On 27/09/12 15:13, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

last night hans and me finally setup a replacement machine for
apt.puredata.info[1], the ultimate source for Pd-extended on
Debian-based systems (Debian, Ubuntu, Linux/Mint,...)[2].

it is now hosted on the puredata.info portal/mailinglist server,
courtesy of iem.

Wow cool, Thanks!
Lorenzo

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Re: [PD] pd-extended 0.42.5 packages for many Ubuntu releases, i386/amd64

2012-09-27 Thread András Murányi 
On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 1:20 AM, András Murányi muran...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 8:22 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.atwrote:


 launchpad only builds packages for the Ubuntu releases, but you could use
 one of the Ubuntu packages on Debian if you find an Ubuntu release that is
 close to your Debian release.

 I hear that OpenSUSE's build server will build Debian packages, but I've
 never used it.  It would be very useful if someone set that up, I think can
 also build Fedora and SUSE packages.


 I played around with OpenSUSE's OBS but it's not a success yet.
 It needs a something.spec file for building RPMs and a something.dsc file
 for DEBs. Both files serve to define a source package.
 For the spec file, I started from one well worked out for Planet CCRMA by
 Fernando Lopez-Lezcano. It's looking good for the OBS right now except that
 I'm struggling with the source definition, i.e. it doesn't seem to be able
 to grab the tar.gz from sourceforge.
 For the debian dsc file, I used Paul Brossier's one. The dsc is much
 simpler, but it cannot accept source urls, only local files. That's where
 OBS's so-called Source Service comes into the picture, which can download
 a tar.gz or even checkout an svn repo and tar.gz it for me. I'm struggling
 with this too, because (1) I'm unable to grab the resulting tar.gz from the
 dsc (it's created with an odd name that contains a colon) and (2) in the
 dsc an MD5 checksum of the tar.gz needs to be present which is unknown in
 the case of an archive newly created from SVN.
 I'll try to grow smarter with OBS, but in the meantime, any advice is
 highly appreciated. :)


Update: both source access problems are solved for now.
The deb build at the moment is stuck at the point where it doesn't
recognize the source package as a valid one. Dunno why.
The rpm build got as far as where it would have needed mp3lame - seems that
it's only available with Planet CCRMA (?). GEM builds fine. I'm playing
around with conditionals for requires for different CPU capabilities,
because OBS's spec file parser is somewhat limited.
More news soon, hopefully.

András
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[PD] debugging sporadic hangs at startup

2012-09-27 Thread Ivica Ico Bukvic 
All,

 

I am noticing sporadic GUI freezes when loading complex patches on startup.
How would one go about debugging this when most of such startups happen by
clicking on the app icon (so no access to gdb or console). Short of changing
the app icon to make everyone's apps always start with gdb, is there a way
to redirect debugging output to a file?

 

On a related matter, any other users noticed these ocassional hangs when
loading a complex patch (the window opens but remains blank and clicking on
any options in the menu does nothing)?

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Re: [PD] debugging sporadic hangs at startup

2012-09-27 Thread Miller Puckette 
On Macintosh I presume...

Maybe you can use gdb to 'attach' to the running Pd process, assuming it
at least gets started up (which I assume it must have in order to start
loading the patch).

cheers
Miller

On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 12:22:57PM -0400, Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote:
 All,
 
  
 
 I am noticing sporadic GUI freezes when loading complex patches on startup.
 How would one go about debugging this when most of such startups happen by
 clicking on the app icon (so no access to gdb or console). Short of changing
 the app icon to make everyone's apps always start with gdb, is there a way
 to redirect debugging output to a file?
 
  
 
 On a related matter, any other users noticed these ocassional hangs when
 loading a complex patch (the window opens but remains blank and clicking on
 any options in the menu does nothing)?
 

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Re: [PD] pd-extended 0.42.5 packages for many Ubuntu releases, i386/amd64

2012-09-27 Thread Hans-Christoph Steiner 
On 09/27/2012 10:30 AM, András Murányi wrote:
 On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 1:20 AM, András Murányi muran...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 8:22 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.atwrote:

 launchpad only builds packages for the Ubuntu releases, but you could use
 one of the Ubuntu packages on Debian if you find an Ubuntu release that is
 close to your Debian release.

 I hear that OpenSUSE's build server will build Debian packages, but I've
 never used it.  It would be very useful if someone set that up, I think can
 also build Fedora and SUSE packages.


 I played around with OpenSUSE's OBS but it's not a success yet.
 It needs a something.spec file for building RPMs and a something.dsc file
 for DEBs. Both files serve to define a source package.
 For the spec file, I started from one well worked out for Planet CCRMA by
 Fernando Lopez-Lezcano. It's looking good for the OBS right now except that
 I'm struggling with the source definition, i.e. it doesn't seem to be able
 to grab the tar.gz from sourceforge.
 For the debian dsc file, I used Paul Brossier's one. The dsc is much
 simpler, but it cannot accept source urls, only local files. That's where
 OBS's so-called Source Service comes into the picture, which can download
 a tar.gz or even checkout an svn repo and tar.gz it for me. I'm struggling
 with this too, because (1) I'm unable to grab the resulting tar.gz from the
 dsc (it's created with an odd name that contains a colon) and (2) in the
 dsc an MD5 checksum of the tar.gz needs to be present which is unknown in
 the case of an archive newly created from SVN.
 I'll try to grow smarter with OBS, but in the meantime, any advice is
 highly appreciated. :)

 Update: both source access problems are solved for now.
 The deb build at the moment is stuck at the point where it doesn't
 recognize the source package as a valid one. Dunno why.
 The rpm build got as far as where it would have needed mp3lame - seems that
 it's only available with Planet CCRMA (?). GEM builds fine. I'm playing
 around with conditionals for requires for different CPU capabilities,
 because OBS's spec file parser is somewhat limited.
 More news soon, hopefully.

Deb source packages are too tricky to create manually, use the Debian
tools.  If you are working from a git repo, like for puredata, the use
git-buildpackage -S.   For any repo with the debian/ folder there, you
can use debuild -S

You will need to change the debian/changelog to have your name and email
in it, so that the signing part works, if opensuse requires signed
packages.  Launchpad, Debian, and Ubuntu all do.

At the very least, you'll want to do:

sudo apt-get install dpkg-dev devscripts debhelper cdbs

You can also download the source packages from the Debian or Ubuntu
official packages, but they'll be signed by the original uploaders key. 
That wouldn't work with Launchpad but might with OBS, if it has looser
signing restrictions.

If you want to try my new Pd-extended proper debian support, run:

$ ~/auto-build/pd-extended/scripts/auto-build/pd-extended-source-tarball.sh
$ mv /tmp/Pd-extended_0.43.1~20120926-source.tar.bz2
~/auto-build/pd-extended_0.43.1~20120926.orig.tar.bz2
$ cd ~/auto-build/pd-extended
$ debuild -S -uc -us

(the -uc -us) means ignore the whole signing procedure, including the
name in the debian/changelog)

.hc

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Re: [PD] pd-extended 0.42.5 packages for many Ubuntu releases, i386/amd64

2012-09-27 Thread Hans-Christoph Steiner 
On 09/26/2012 07:20 PM, András Murányi wrote:
 On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 8:22 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.atwrote:

 launchpad only builds packages for the Ubuntu releases, but you could use
 one of the Ubuntu packages on Debian if you find an Ubuntu release that is
 close to your Debian release.

 I hear that OpenSUSE's build server will build Debian packages, but I've
 never used it.  It would be very useful if someone set that up, I think can
 also build Fedora and SUSE packages.


 I played around with OpenSUSE's OBS but it's not a success yet.
 It needs a something.spec file for building RPMs and a something.dsc file
 for DEBs. Both files serve to define a source package.
 For the spec file, I started from one well worked out for Planet CCRMA by
 Fernando Lopez-Lezcano. It's looking good for the OBS right now except that
 I'm struggling with the source definition, i.e. it doesn't seem to be able
 to grab the tar.gz from sourceforge.
 For the debian dsc file, I used Paul Brossier's one. The dsc is much
 simpler, but it cannot accept source urls, only local files. That's where
 OBS's so-called Source Service comes into the picture, which can download
 a tar.gz or even checkout an svn repo and tar.gz it for me. I'm struggling
 with this too, because (1) I'm unable to grab the resulting tar.gz from the
 dsc (it's created with an odd name that contains a colon) and (2) in the
 dsc an MD5 checksum of the tar.gz needs to be present which is unknown in
 the case of an archive newly created from SVN.
 I'll try to grow smarter with OBS, but in the meantime, any advice is
 highly appreciated. :)

 András

Also, its great that you are taking on the spec file for RPMs!  Once you
get 'puredata' working, then it would be very handy if you could make
one for the externals/template.  Then it'll be easy to make RPMs for
most of the libraries in Pd-extended, just like what's in Debian.

I've never made RPMs before, but I've done a lot of other packaging, so
I'll help where I can.

.hc

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Re: [PD] debugging sporadic hangs at startup

2012-09-27 Thread Ivica Ico Bukvic 
This is actually on Linux.

The problem is likely not in C, since program does start up and creates the
main Pd window and then hangs during loading of the patch (the patch window
is created but canvas remains empty and after that nothing responds any
more). It seems to me this is probably because at some point messages sent
to tcl/tk over network (from C) get mangled after which gui stops
responding. I had issues like these before with network externals and solved
them, but this is the one that I had a hard time weeding out since it is so
sporadic. For this reason, I would like to somehow output all  tcl/tk
commands that were sent to gui. Any way to do this and send it to a separate
log file without opening a terminal?

 -Original Message-
 From: Miller Puckette [mailto:m...@ucsd.edu]
 Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 12:27 PM
 To: Ivica Ico Bukvic
 Cc: pd-list@iem.at
 Subject: Re: [PD] debugging sporadic hangs at startup
 
 On Macintosh I presume...
 
 Maybe you can use gdb to 'attach' to the running Pd process, assuming it
at
 least gets started up (which I assume it must have in order to start
loading
 the patch).
 
 cheers
 Miller
 
 On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 12:22:57PM -0400, Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote:
  All,
 
 
 
  I am noticing sporadic GUI freezes when loading complex patches on
 startup.
  How would one go about debugging this when most of such startups
  happen by clicking on the app icon (so no access to gdb or console).
  Short of changing the app icon to make everyone's apps always start
  with gdb, is there a way to redirect debugging output to a file?
 
 
 
  On a related matter, any other users noticed these ocassional hangs
  when loading a complex patch (the window opens but remains blank and
  clicking on any options in the menu does nothing)?
 
 
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Re: [PD] debugging sporadic hangs at startup

2012-09-27 Thread Miller Puckette 
I've never done this but perhaps it would work to edit the line in
pd-gui.tcl:

exec -- $pd_exec -guiport $::port 

to:

exec -- $pd_exec -guiport $::port -d 1  /tmp/foo 

(not sure if ' or '2' depending on shell).

cheers
Miller

On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 01:23:23PM -0400, Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote:
 This is actually on Linux.
 
 The problem is likely not in C, since program does start up and creates the
 main Pd window and then hangs during loading of the patch (the patch window
 is created but canvas remains empty and after that nothing responds any
 more). It seems to me this is probably because at some point messages sent
 to tcl/tk over network (from C) get mangled after which gui stops
 responding. I had issues like these before with network externals and solved
 them, but this is the one that I had a hard time weeding out since it is so
 sporadic. For this reason, I would like to somehow output all  tcl/tk
 commands that were sent to gui. Any way to do this and send it to a separate
 log file without opening a terminal?
 
  -Original Message-
  From: Miller Puckette [mailto:m...@ucsd.edu]
  Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 12:27 PM
  To: Ivica Ico Bukvic
  Cc: pd-list@iem.at
  Subject: Re: [PD] debugging sporadic hangs at startup
  
  On Macintosh I presume...
  
  Maybe you can use gdb to 'attach' to the running Pd process, assuming it
 at
  least gets started up (which I assume it must have in order to start
 loading
  the patch).
  
  cheers
  Miller
  
  On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 12:22:57PM -0400, Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote:
   All,
  
  
  
   I am noticing sporadic GUI freezes when loading complex patches on
  startup.
   How would one go about debugging this when most of such startups
   happen by clicking on the app icon (so no access to gdb or console).
   Short of changing the app icon to make everyone's apps always start
   with gdb, is there a way to redirect debugging output to a file?
  
  
  
   On a related matter, any other users noticed these ocassional hangs
   when loading a complex patch (the window opens but remains blank and
   clicking on any options in the menu does nothing)?
  
  
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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] apt.puredata.info is back!

2012-09-27 Thread Hans-Christoph Steiner 
On 09/27/2012 10:02 AM, Lorenzo Sutton wrote:
 On 27/09/12 15:13, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote:
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1

 last night hans and me finally setup a replacement machine for
 apt.puredata.info[1], the ultimate source for Pd-extended on
 Debian-based systems (Debian, Ubuntu, Linux/Mint,...)[2].

 it is now hosted on the puredata.info portal/mailinglist server,
 courtesy of iem.
 Wow cool, Thanks!
 Lorenzo

The aim is to have packages for all Debian/Ubuntu/Mint releases in both
i386 and and amd64 (i.e. 32-bit and 64-bit), then hopefully some other
architectures for Debian (armel, armhf, etc).

.hc

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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] apt.puredata.info is back!

2012-09-27 Thread Jonathan Wilkes 
Please change the description for the package
pd-arraysize

This object is deprecated.  Use [expr size(array-name)]
which works out of the box for Pd Extended, Pd Vanilla,
and Pd-l2ork.

-Jonathan



- Original Message -
 From: IOhannes m zmoelnig zmoel...@iem.at
 To: pd-annou...@iem.at
 Cc: 
 Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 9:13 AM
 Subject: [PD] [PD-announce] apt.puredata.info is back!
 
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1
 
 last night hans and me finally setup a replacement machine for
 apt.puredata.info[1], the ultimate source for Pd-extended on
 Debian-based systems (Debian, Ubuntu, Linux/Mint,...)[2].
 
 it is now hosted on the puredata.info portal/mailinglist server,
 courtesy of iem.
 
 fgmasdf
 IOhannes
 
 
 
 [1] http://apt.puredata.info/
 [2] http://puredata.info/docs/faq/debian
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
 Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux)
 Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
 
 iEYEARECAAYFAlBkUPcACgkQkX2Xpv6ydvQbWACgz3R2G1E16kEgWJYYreEYiTTe
 3OIAn3pGIKY4rvuVGVNkHjgShDloTi4G
 =5vNI
 -END PGP SIGNATURE-
 
 
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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] apt.puredata.info is back!

2012-09-27 Thread Hans-Christoph Steiner 

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256


IMHO, arraysize is very useful because it has a memorable name.  I need
to find the size of an array... oh, [arraysize].

.hc

On 09/27/2012 02:13 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
 Please change the description for the package
 pd-arraysize

 This object is deprecated. Use [expr size(array-name)]
 which works out of the box for Pd Extended, Pd Vanilla,
 and Pd-l2ork.

 -Jonathan



 - Original Message -
 From: IOhannes m zmoelnig zmoel...@iem.at
 To: pd-annou...@iem.at
 Cc:
 Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 9:13 AM
 Subject: [PD] [PD-announce] apt.puredata.info is back!

 last night hans and me finally setup a replacement machine for
 apt.puredata.info[1], the ultimate source for Pd-extended on
 Debian-based systems (Debian, Ubuntu, Li
 fgmasdfnux/Mint,...)[2].

 it is now hosted on the puredata.info portal/mailinglist server,
 courtesy of iem.

 fgmasdf
 IOhannes



 [1] http://apt.puredata.info/
 [2] http://puredata.info/docs/faq/debian


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Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://www.enigmail.net/

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Re: [PD] debugging sporadic hangs at startup

2012-09-27 Thread Ivica Bukvic 
Cool! I'll try this out and let you know.
On Sep 27, 2012 1:33 PM, Miller Puckette m...@ucsd.edu wrote:

 I've never done this but perhaps it would work to edit the line in
 pd-gui.tcl:

 exec -- $pd_exec -guiport $::port 

 to:

 exec -- $pd_exec -guiport $::port -d 1  /tmp/foo 

 (not sure if ' or '2' depending on shell).

 cheers
 Miller

 On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 01:23:23PM -0400, Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote:
  This is actually on Linux.
 
  The problem is likely not in C, since program does start up and creates
 the
  main Pd window and then hangs during loading of the patch (the patch
 window
  is created but canvas remains empty and after that nothing responds any
  more). It seems to me this is probably because at some point messages
 sent
  to tcl/tk over network (from C) get mangled after which gui stops
  responding. I had issues like these before with network externals and
 solved
  them, but this is the one that I had a hard time weeding out since it is
 so
  sporadic. For this reason, I would like to somehow output all  tcl/tk
  commands that were sent to gui. Any way to do this and send it to a
 separate
  log file without opening a terminal?
 
   -Original Message-
   From: Miller Puckette [mailto:m...@ucsd.edu]
   Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 12:27 PM
   To: Ivica Ico Bukvic
   Cc: pd-list@iem.at
   Subject: Re: [PD] debugging sporadic hangs at startup
  
   On Macintosh I presume...
  
   Maybe you can use gdb to 'attach' to the running Pd process, assuming
 it
  at
   least gets started up (which I assume it must have in order to start
  loading
   the patch).
  
   cheers
   Miller
  
   On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 12:22:57PM -0400, Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote:
All,
   
   
   
I am noticing sporadic GUI freezes when loading complex patches on
   startup.
How would one go about debugging this when most of such startups
happen by clicking on the app icon (so no access to gdb or console).
Short of changing the app icon to make everyone's apps always start
with gdb, is there a way to redirect debugging output to a file?
   
   
   
On a related matter, any other users noticed these ocassional hangs
when loading a complex patch (the window opens but remains blank and
clicking on any options in the menu does nothing)?
   
  
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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] apt.puredata.info is back!

2012-09-27 Thread Jonathan Wilkes 
That feature comes at the expense of compatibility, which
normally wouldn't be an issue _except_ that Pd
Vanilla already has the same functionality.  So let's encourage
use of the more compatible way using [expr], which is
clearly documented and supports the _exact_ same features
as arraysize.

-Jonathan





 From: Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at
To: pd-list@iem.at 
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 2:24 PM
Subject: Re: [PD] [PD-announce] apt.puredata.info is back!
 


-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256


IMHO, arraysize is very useful because it has a memorable name.  I
need to find the size of an array... oh, [arraysize].

.hc

On 09/27/2012 02:13 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
 Please change the description for the package
 pd-arraysize

 This object is deprecated. Use [expr size(array-name)]
 which works out of the box for Pd Extended, Pd Vanilla,
 and Pd-l2ork.

 -Jonathan



 - Original Message -
 From: IOhannes m zmoelnig zmoel...@iem.at
 To: pd-annou...@iem.at
 Cc: 
 Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 9:13 AM
 Subject: [PD] [PD-announce] apt.puredata.info is back!

 last night hans and me finally setup a replacement machine
  for
 apt.puredata.info[1], the ultimate source for Pd-extended on
 Debian-based systems (Debian, Ubuntu, Li
 fgmasdfnux/Mint,...)[2].

 it is now hosted on the puredata.info portal/mailinglist
  server,
 courtesy of iem.

 fgmasdf
 IOhannes



 [1] http://apt.puredata.info/
 [2] http://puredata.info/docs/faq/debian


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Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://www.enigmail.net/

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[PD] arraysize WAS apt.puredata.info is back!

2012-09-27 Thread Hans-Christoph Steiner 

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

If someone wants to write patches that work on vanilla anywhere, then
there is a point. If people are already using Pd-extended or Debian then
I honestly don't see the point, arraysize is already there, like many
other externals.

For me, apt-get install pd-arraysize is far easier than trying to
remember that [expr] trick.  And thankfully we can write externals, so
we can have choice. :-)

.hc

On 09/27/2012 03:00 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
 That feature comes at the expense of compatibility, which
 normally wouldn't be an issue _except_ that Pd
 Vanilla already has the same functionality. So let's encourage
 use of the more compatible way using [expr], which is
 clearly documented and supports the _exact_ same features
 as arraysize.

 -Jonathan




 
 From: Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at
 To: pd-list@iem.at
 Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 2:24 PM
 Subject: Re: [PD] [PD-announce] apt.puredata.info is back!




 IMHO, arraysize is very useful because it has a memorable name. I
  need to find the size of an array... oh, [arraysize].

 .hc

 On 09/27/2012 02:13 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
  Please change the description for the package
  pd-arraysize
 
  This object is deprecated. Use [expr size(array-name)]
  which works out of the box for Pd Extended, Pd Vanilla,
  and Pd-l2ork.
 
  -Jonathan
 
 
 
  - Original Message -
  From: IOhannes m zmoelnig zmoel...@iem.at
  To: pd-annou...@iem.at
  Cc:
  Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 9:13 AM
  Subject: [PD] [PD-announce] apt.puredata.info is back!
 
  last night hans and me finally setup a replacement machine
  for
  apt.puredata.info[1], the ultimate source for Pd-extended on
  Debian-based systems (Debian, Ubuntu, Li
  fgmasdfnux/Mint,...)[2].
 
  it is now hosted on the puredata.info portal/mailinglist
  server,
  courtesy of iem.
 
  fgmasdf
  IOhannes
 
 
 
  [1] http://apt.puredata.info/
  [2] http://puredata.info/docs/faq/debian
 
 
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Re: [PD] pd-extended 0.42.5 packages for many Ubuntu releases, i386/amd64

2012-09-27 Thread Hans-Christoph Steiner 
On 09/24/2012 12:42 AM, Billy Stiltner wrote:
 I used to use a compiler that would do cross compilng - anything from
 playstation , gameboy to a Microchip PIC16Fxxx.
 it would be nice to have something like that for  linux, windows, and mac.

 Are you including the iemlib in these packages or is it just there
 waiting to be not included anymore.
 I like the filters in that library even though when I send the stuff
 they don't like and they explode almost,
 ~alindx takes care of keeping it a controlled blast.
 to find a limiter that will do the same is my gettin on it.

The current snapshot of 'iemlib' will be included in Pd-extended as long
as it doesn't break.  It currently does not have a maintainer in
Pd-extended, so if it breaks on a supported platform, it'll be removed.

.hc

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Re: [PD] arraysize WAS apt.puredata.info is back!

2012-09-27 Thread Jonathan Wilkes 

 From: Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at
To: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com 
Cc: pd-list@iem.at pd-list@iem.at 
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 3:03 PM
Subject: arraysize WAS apt.puredata.info is back!
 


-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

If someone wants to write patches that work on vanilla anywhere,
then there is a point.

_Everybody_ wants to write patches that work on vanilla everywhere.

When we can't we try to figure out a course of action, but when we
can (without employing wild hacks) we should.


 If people are already using Pd-extended or
Debian then I honestly don't see the point, arraysize is already
there, like many other externals.

It's like you wrote above.  People _do_ want patches to be as cross-platform
as possible. (Not if.)



For me, apt-get install pd-arraysize is far easier than trying to
remember that [expr] trick.  And thankfully we can write externals,
so we can have choice. :-)

If it were a wild hack I'd agree, but it's not.  It is a standard operator for
[expr] that's been there for ages and is clearly documented.

And who is this mythical user that looks to the Debian repositories
to figure out how to do something in a programming language?
(Hm, I'm not getting audio output, let's open up Synaptic and search
20,000 mostly non-related packages for a solution...)

-Jonathan



.hc

On 09/27/2012 03:00 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
 That feature comes at the expense of compatibility, which
 normally wouldn't be an issue _except_ that Pd
 Vanilla already has the same functionality. So let's
  encourage
 use of the more compatible way using [expr], which is
 clearly documented and supports the _exact_ same features
 as arraysize.

 -Jonathan




 
 From: Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at
 To: pd-list@iem.at 
 Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 2:24 PM
 Subject: Re: [PD] [PD-announce] apt.puredata.info is
  back!




 IMHO, arraysize is very useful because it has a memorable
  name. I
  need to find the size of an array... oh, [arraysize].

 .hc

 On 09/27/2012 02:13 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
  Please change the description for the package
  pd-arraysize
 
  This object is deprecated. Use [expr
  size(array-name)]
  which works out of the box for Pd Extended, Pd
  Vanilla,
  and Pd-l2ork.
 
  -Jonathan
 
 
 
  - Original Message -
  From: IOhannes m zmoelnig zmoel...@iem.at
  To: pd-annou...@iem.at
  Cc:
  Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 9:13 AM
  Subject: [PD] [PD-announce]
  apt.puredata.info is back!
 
  last night hans and me finally setup a
  replacement machine
  for
  apt.puredata.info[1], the ultimate source for
  Pd-extended on
  Debian-based systems (Debian, Ubuntu, Li
  fgmasdfnux/Mint,...)[2].
 
  it is now hosted on the puredata.info
  portal/mailinglist
  server,
  courtesy of iem.
 
  fgmasdf
  IOhannes
 
 
 
  [1] http://apt.puredata.info/
  [2] http://puredata.info/docs/faq/debian
 
 
 
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  http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-announce
 
 
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[PD] [OT] Know of any live data streams (audio/video/img/txt)?

2012-09-27 Thread Tyler Leavitt 
Hello list,

I'm looking to get my hands on some data to turn into sound. I was thinking
web cams, streaming audio (harder to find ambient/landscapes, I know
there's lots of radios [speech and music]), weather information, etc.
Anything that is updated/streamed fairly consistently, perhaps by the
minute would be the minimum I'm looking for. I can find traffic cams pretty
easily... whatever you think would be interesting/hard to find. I'll share
some of the stuff I find if this seems to pique interest.

Thanks,
Tyler
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Re: [PD] [OT] Portable webserver with static IP

2012-09-27 Thread Andy Farnell 


Good to know, and hear about zeroconf success through this
example. Something new to try in the future.

Andy

On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 11:50:50AM +0200, Pierre Massat wrote:
 I ended up using zeroconf on the RPi and installing bonjour on the windows
 machine which needed it and it works just fine.
 
 Pierre.
 
 2012/9/27 IOhannes m zmoelnig zmoel...@iem.at
 
  -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
  Hash: SHA1
 
  On 2012-09-12 12:30, Olivier Heinry wrote:
   - or you have to setup a DHCP server on your mobile web server.
   *Big
   mess* if there's already a DHCP server on the network
   (likely).
   Well, as a secondary server, *should* work fine
  
 
  secondary DHCP server?
  chances are high, that you will take half of the machines offline with
  such a setup.
 
  you never ever should run multiple DHCP-servers in a subnet, unless
  you absolutely know what you are doing (which seems to be not the case).
  if you absolutely know what you are doing, you probably still won't
  run multiple DHCP-servers in a subnet.
 
  mfgasdr
  IOhannes
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Re: [PD] arraysize WAS apt.puredata.info is back!

2012-09-27 Thread Miller Puckette 
Sorry to further complicate this -

I'm now trying to design a multipurpose object array for pd
vanilla that would allow one to say [array size] and use table or
data structure arrays intercahngeably.

I think though, that rather than marking arraysize as obsolete one
could simply note that it has an equivalent available in Pd vanilla -
that need carry no value judgement as to whether people should be using
vanilla or extended.

cheers
M

On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 12:23:35PM -0700, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
 
  From: Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at
 To: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com 
 Cc: pd-list@iem.at pd-list@iem.at 
 Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 3:03 PM
 Subject: arraysize WAS apt.puredata.info is back!
  
 
 
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA256
 
 If someone wants to write patches that work on vanilla anywhere,
 then there is a point.
 
 _Everybody_ wants to write patches that work on vanilla everywhere.
 
 When we can't we try to figure out a course of action, but when we
 can (without employing wild hacks) we should.
 
 
  If people are already using Pd-extended or
 Debian then I honestly don't see the point, arraysize is already
 there, like many other externals.
 
 It's like you wrote above.  People _do_ want patches to be as cross-platform
 as possible. (Not if.)
 
 
 
 For me, apt-get install pd-arraysize is far easier than trying to
 remember that [expr] trick.  And thankfully we can write externals,
 so we can have choice. :-)
 
 If it were a wild hack I'd agree, but it's not.  It is a standard operator for
 [expr] that's been there for ages and is clearly documented.
 
 And who is this mythical user that looks to the Debian repositories
 to figure out how to do something in a programming language?
 (Hm, I'm not getting audio output, let's open up Synaptic and search
 20,000 mostly non-related packages for a solution...)
 
 -Jonathan
 
 
 
 .hc
 
 On 09/27/2012 03:00 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
  That feature comes at the expense of compatibility, which
  normally wouldn't be an issue _except_ that Pd
  Vanilla already has the same functionality. So let's
   encourage
  use of the more compatible way using [expr], which is
  clearly documented and supports the _exact_ same features
  as arraysize.
 
  -Jonathan
 
 
 
 
  
  From: Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at
  To: pd-list@iem.at 
  Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 2:24 PM
  Subject: Re: [PD] [PD-announce] apt.puredata.info is
   back!
 
 
 
 
  IMHO, arraysize is very useful because it has a memorable
   name. I
   need to find the size of an array... oh, [arraysize].
 
  .hc
 
  On 09/27/2012 02:13 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
   Please change the description for the package
   pd-arraysize
  
   This object is deprecated. Use [expr
   size(array-name)]
   which works out of the box for Pd Extended, Pd
   Vanilla,
   and Pd-l2ork.
  
   -Jonathan
  
  
  
   - Original Message -
   From: IOhannes m zmoelnig zmoel...@iem.at
   To: pd-annou...@iem.at
   Cc:
   Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 9:13 AM
   Subject: [PD] [PD-announce]
   apt.puredata.info is back!
  
   last night hans and me finally setup a
   replacement machine
   for
   apt.puredata.info[1], the ultimate source for
   Pd-extended on
   Debian-based systems (Debian, Ubuntu, Li
   fgmasdfnux/Mint,...)[2].
  
   it is now hosted on the puredata.info
   portal/mailinglist
   server,
   courtesy of iem.
  
   fgmasdf
   IOhannes
  
  
  
   [1] http://apt.puredata.info/
   [2] http://puredata.info/docs/faq/debian
  
  
  
   ___
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Re: [PD] pd-extended 0.42.5 packages for many Ubuntu releases, i386/amd64

2012-09-27 Thread Jonathan Wilkes 
How many unmaintained libs are there currently in Pd-extended?

-Jonathan




- Original Message -
 From: Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at
 To: Billy Stiltner billy.stilt...@gmail.com
 Cc: Pd List pd-list@iem.at
 Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 3:04 PM
 Subject: Re: [PD] pd-extended 0.42.5 packages for many Ubuntu releases, 
 i386/amd64
 
 On 09/24/2012 12:42 AM, Billy Stiltner wrote:
  I used to use a compiler that would do cross compilng - anything from
  playstation , gameboy to a Microchip PIC16Fxxx.
  it would be nice to have something like that for  linux, windows, and mac.
 
  Are you including the iemlib in these packages or is it just there
  waiting to be not included anymore.
  I like the filters in that library even though when I send the stuff
  they don't like and they explode almost,
  ~alindx takes care of keeping it a controlled blast.
  to find a limiter that will do the same is my gettin on it.
 
 The current snapshot of 'iemlib' will be included in Pd-extended as long
 as it doesn't break.  It currently does not have a maintainer in
 Pd-extended, so if it breaks on a supported platform, it'll be removed.
 
 .hc
 
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Re: [PD] The HISSTools Impulse Response Toolbox: Convolution for the Masses. Call for port to Pd from Max

2012-09-27 Thread katja 
Happy to learn that HISSTools are released now. Yes I'm certainly
interested in a port to Pd. It is very interesting stuff for sound
control in live performance situations. I am familiar with IR
measurement and minimum-phase filter construction (in C / Pd), so
reading and translating certain parts of the code should not give me
too much trouble. There's also a graphics class in the package, that's
not for me. It would be great if the port can be a collaboration
effort, HISSTools is quite an elaborate project.

Katja


On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 3:11 PM, Julian Brooks jbee...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi all,

 After the successful realisation of the [ipoke~] port that we recently 
 undertook I would like to ask if anyone would be up for some more?

 This time it would be porting the HISSTools Impulse Response Toolbox.

 Some (cut  pasted) bumff:
 HISSTools first release is a set of tools for working with convolution and 
 impulse responses in MaxMSP. This set of objects addresses various tasks, 
 including measuring impulse responses, spectral display from realtime data/ 
 buffers, and buffer-based convolution, deconvolution and inversion.

 About HISS here:
 http://www.thehiss.org/

 HISSTools 2012 ICMC paper and link to the Max d/l here:
 http://eprints.hud.ac.uk/14897/

 Some chat on the max-list:
 http://cycling74.com/forums/topic.php?id=42403

 Port is 3-clause-BSD.

 Last time was genuinely a fantastic example of collaborative working I 
 thought, and a great example of our FLOSS community in action (I'm sure 
 there's a paper in there for someone): good people with the appropriate 
 skills creating super-tight code without ego or conflict.  Ace.

 Big props to Matt Barber, Alex Harker, Charles (Chuck) Henry, P.A. Tremblay 
 and especially Katja Vetter.

 Really hope some of the above have the energy to get into this again but this 
 is an open call for anyone who has the time and interest in contributing to 
 make it happen.

 All good wishes,

 Julian




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Re: [PD] arraysize WAS apt.puredata.info is back!

2012-09-27 Thread Jonathan Wilkes 

 From: Miller Puckette m...@ucsd.edu
To: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com 
Cc: Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at; pd-list@iem.at pd-list@iem.at 
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 3:59 PM
Subject: Re: [PD] arraysize WAS apt.puredata.info is back!
 
Sorry to further complicate this -

I'm now trying to design a multipurpose object array for pd
vanilla that would allow one to say [array size] and use table or
data structure arrays intercahngeably.


Interesting.  Will this allow a data structure array to be used by
[tab*~] objects?  That's one thing that would make ds arrays
very valuable (think of all the queries to the list about how to get
different colored arrays, for example) but I never figured out an
easy way to do it.

BTW, I've got a patch somewhere that did mouseover/mouseout
notifications to [struct] but I can't seem to find it now.  I also tried
outputting pointer x/y location with click events to [struct] but
couldn't get it working right for GOP stuff.

-Jonathan



I think though, that rather than marking arraysize as obsolete one
could simply note that it has an equivalent available in Pd vanilla -
that need carry no value judgement as to whether people should be using
vanilla or extended.
I don't use Pd Vanilla, but that's irrelevant because [expr] is available in
both Vanilla and Extended.

Actually I think obsolete and deprecated are ill-suited-- it's an object
that was designed because someone either didn't know you could already
do that in Pd or ignored that fact for some reason.

-Jonathan



cheers
M

On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 12:23:35PM -0700, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
 
  From: Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at
 To: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com 
 Cc: pd-list@iem.at pd-list@iem.at 
 Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 3:03 PM
 Subject: arraysize WAS apt.puredata.info is back!
  
 
 
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA256
 
 If someone wants to write patches that work on vanilla anywhere,
 then there is a point.
 
 _Everybody_ wants to write patches that work on vanilla everywhere.
 
 When we can't we try to figure out a course of action, but when we
 can (without employing wild hacks) we should.
 
 
  If people are already using Pd-extended or
 Debian then I honestly don't see the point, arraysize is already
 there, like many other externals.
 
 It's like you wrote above.  People _do_ want patches to be as cross-platform
 as possible. (Not if.)
 
 
 
 For me, apt-get install pd-arraysize is far easier than trying to
 remember that [expr] trick.  And thankfully we can write externals,
 so we can have choice. :-)
 
 If it were a wild hack I'd agree, but it's not.  It is a standard operator 
 for
 [expr] that's been there for ages and is clearly documented.
 
 And who is this mythical user that looks to the Debian repositories
 to figure out how to do something in a programming language?
 (Hm, I'm not getting audio output, let's open up Synaptic and search
 20,000 mostly non-related packages for a solution...)
 
 -Jonathan
 
 
 
 .hc
 
 On 09/27/2012 03:00 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
  That feature comes at the expense of compatibility, which
  normally wouldn't be an issue _except_ that Pd
  Vanilla already has the same functionality. So let's
   encourage
  use of the more compatible way using [expr], which is
  clearly documented and supports the _exact_ same features
  as arraysize.
 
  -Jonathan
 
 
 
 
  
  From: Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at
  To: pd-list@iem.at 
  Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 2:24 PM
  Subject: Re: [PD] [PD-announce] apt.puredata.info is
   back!
 
 
 
 
  IMHO, arraysize is very useful because it has a memorable
   name. I
   need to find the size of an array... oh, [arraysize].
 
  .hc
 
  On 09/27/2012 02:13 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
   Please change the description for the package
   pd-arraysize
  
   This object is deprecated. Use [expr
   size(array-name)]
   which works out of the box for Pd Extended, Pd
   Vanilla,
   and Pd-l2ork.
  
   -Jonathan
  
  
  
   - Original Message -
   From: IOhannes m zmoelnig zmoel...@iem.at
   To: pd-annou...@iem.at
   Cc:
   Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 9:13 AM
   Subject: [PD] [PD-announce]
   apt.puredata.info is back!
  
   last night hans and me finally setup a
   replacement machine
   for
   apt.puredata.info[1], the ultimate source for
   Pd-extended on
   Debian-based systems (Debian, Ubuntu, Li
   fgmasdfnux/Mint,...)[2].
  
   it is now hosted on the puredata.info
   portal/mailinglist
   server,
   courtesy of iem.
  
   fgmasdf
   IOhannes
  
  
  
   [1] http://apt.puredata.info/
   [2] http://puredata.info/docs/faq/debian
  
  
  
   ___
   Pd-announce mailing list
   pd-annou...@iem.at
   http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-announce
  
  
   

Re: [PD] arraysize WAS apt.puredata.info is back!

2012-09-27 Thread Miller Puckette 
On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 01:42:51PM -0700, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
 
  From: Miller Puckette m...@ucsd.edu
 To: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com 
 Cc: Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at; pd-list@iem.at 
 pd-list@iem.at 
 Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 3:59 PM
 Subject: Re: [PD] arraysize WAS apt.puredata.info is back!
  
 Sorry to further complicate this -
 
 I'm now trying to design a multipurpose object array for pd
 vanilla that would allow one to say [array size] and use table or
 data structure arrays intercahngeably.
 
 
 Interesting.  Will this allow a data structure array to be used by
 [tab*~] objects?  That's one thing that would make ds arrays
 very valuable (think of all the queries to the list about how to get
 different colored arrays, for example) but I never figured out an
 easy way to do it.
 
 BTW, I've got a patch somewhere that did mouseover/mouseout
 notifications to [struct] but I can't seem to find it now.  I also tried
 outputting pointer x/y location with click events to [struct] but
 couldn't get it working right for GOP stuff.
 
 -Jonathan
 
Yeah, I'm hoping to completely unify arrays in structs with table arrays -
wish me luck :)

Good idea about the mouseovers - I think Pd is doing all teh work anyhow so
it should be made available.  The whole data thing needs lots and lots more
thinking.

cheers
Miller

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Re: [PD] pd-extended 0.42.5 packages for many Ubuntu releases, i386/amd64

2012-09-27 Thread András Murányi 
On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 6:47 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.atwrote:

 On 09/27/2012 10:30 AM, András Murányi wrote:
  On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 1:20 AM, András Murányi muran...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 
  On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 8:22 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at
 wrote:
 
  launchpad only builds packages for the Ubuntu releases, but you could
 use
  one of the Ubuntu packages on Debian if you find an Ubuntu release
 that is
  close to your Debian release.
 
  I hear that OpenSUSE's build server will build Debian packages, but
 I've
  never used it.  It would be very useful if someone set that up, I
 think can
  also build Fedora and SUSE packages.
 
 
  I played around with OpenSUSE's OBS but it's not a success yet.
  It needs a something.spec file for building RPMs and a something.dsc
 file
  for DEBs. Both files serve to define a source package.
  For the spec file, I started from one well worked out for Planet CCRMA
 by
  Fernando Lopez-Lezcano. It's looking good for the OBS right now except
 that
  I'm struggling with the source definition, i.e. it doesn't seem to be
 able
  to grab the tar.gz from sourceforge.
  For the debian dsc file, I used Paul Brossier's one. The dsc is much
  simpler, but it cannot accept source urls, only local files. That's
 where
  OBS's so-called Source Service comes into the picture, which can
 download
  a tar.gz or even checkout an svn repo and tar.gz it for me. I'm
 struggling
  with this too, because (1) I'm unable to grab the resulting tar.gz from
 the
  dsc (it's created with an odd name that contains a colon) and (2) in the
  dsc an MD5 checksum of the tar.gz needs to be present which is unknown
 in
  the case of an archive newly created from SVN.
  I'll try to grow smarter with OBS, but in the meantime, any advice is
  highly appreciated. :)
 
  Update: both source access problems are solved for now.
  The deb build at the moment is stuck at the point where it doesn't
  recognize the source package as a valid one. Dunno why.
  The rpm build got as far as where it would have needed mp3lame - seems
 that
  it's only available with Planet CCRMA (?). GEM builds fine. I'm playing
  around with conditionals for requires for different CPU capabilities,
  because OBS's spec file parser is somewhat limited.
  More news soon, hopefully.

 Deb source packages are too tricky to create manually, use the Debian
 tools.  If you are working from a git repo, like for puredata, the use
 git-buildpackage -S.   For any repo with the debian/ folder there, you
 can use debuild -S

 You will need to change the debian/changelog to have your name and email
 in it, so that the signing part works, if opensuse requires signed
 packages.  Launchpad, Debian, and Ubuntu all do.

 At the very least, you'll want to do:

 sudo apt-get install dpkg-dev devscripts debhelper cdbs

 You can also download the source packages from the Debian or Ubuntu
 official packages, but they'll be signed by the original uploaders key.
 That wouldn't work with Launchpad but might with OBS, if it has looser
 signing restrictions.


Cool, I've actually paid less attention to the deb process on OBS knowing
that it's already worked out and up-to-date somewhere else. I'll take a
look at how I can reuse those packages.
OBS doesn't need signed packages, an I haven't tried if it accepts packages
signed by someone else.



 If you want to try my new Pd-extended proper debian support, run:

 $ ~/auto-build/pd-extended/scripts/auto-build/pd-extended-source-tarball.sh
 $ mv /tmp/Pd-extended_0.43.1~20120926-source.tar.bz2
 ~/auto-build/pd-extended_0.43.1~20120926.orig.tar.bz2
 $ cd ~/auto-build/pd-extended
 $ debuild -S -uc -us


Hm, I don't have this script yet in ~auto-build/ ... It seems it doesn't
work if I just download it to any place along with its whole folder, but I
cannot run it from the main run-automated-builder script either, because
rsync cannot reach the server.



 (the -uc -us) means ignore the whole signing procedure, including the
 name in the debian/changelog)



 Also, its great that you are taking on the spec file for RPMs!  Once you

get 'puredata' working, then it would be very handy if you could make
 one for the externals/template.  Then it'll be easy to make RPMs for
 most of the libraries in Pd-extended, just like what's in Debian.

 I've never made RPMs before, but I've done a lot of other packaging, so
 I'll help where I can.


Well, the deb thing is stuck at this line now:

 dpkg-source: error: unrecognized file for a v1.0 source package:
 Pd-0.42.5-extended.tar.gz

The file is pulled from
http://sourceforge.net/projects/pure-data/files/pd-extended/0.42.5/Pd-0.42.5-extended.tar.gz
(It has a packages/linux_make/debian folder but still no good.)
Is there a .tar.gz for pd-extended online which is suitable for deb
packaging and I could link to it? I don't want to reinvent the wheel...
BTW, Is there a Pd-0.42.5-extended-dev.deb (or alike) that I could study or
use for parts?

The rpm is

Re: [PD] arraysize WAS apt.puredata.info is back!

2012-09-27 Thread Hans-Christoph Steiner 

Sounds like a good complication :).  I think a general array toolkit
would be very useful.  I'm not a fan of expanding the use of Tcl syntax
in Pd tho (i.e. commands with subcommands).

Pd syntax is nice and simple with always the first word being the
command and the rest being the args.  [list ...] is the only except to
this that I can think of, and certainly the only exception included in
pd-vanilla.

How about just naming them like [tabsize], [tabfoo], etc since there
already are lots of [tab...] objects.  Or anything to minimize the
confusion between the 'array', 'table', and 'tab*' objects.  Since there
is [table] and [tab*], the menu item Put - Array could be renamed to
Put visual table (array) or something like that, then the word
table/tab would be pretty consistent throughout Pd.

It may seem trivial, but I've spent a lot of time explaining why the
objects for reading arrays all start with 'tab'.

.hc

On 09/27/2012 03:59 PM, Miller Puckette wrote:
 Sorry to further complicate this -

 I'm now trying to design a multipurpose object array for pd
 vanilla that would allow one to say [array size] and use table or
 data structure arrays intercahngeably.

 I think though, that rather than marking arraysize as obsolete one
 could simply note that it has an equivalent available in Pd vanilla -
 that need carry no value judgement as to whether people should be using
 vanilla or extended.

 cheers
 M

 On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 12:23:35PM -0700, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
 
 From: Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at
 To: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com
 Cc: pd-list@iem.at pd-list@iem.at
 Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 3:03 PM
 Subject: arraysize WAS apt.puredata.info is back!



 If someone wants to write patches that work on vanilla anywhere,
  then there is a point.
 
  _Everybody_ wants to write patches that work on vanilla everywhere.
 
  When we can't we try to figure out a course of action, but when we
  can (without employing wild hacks) we should.
 
 
 If people are already using Pd-extended or
  Debian then I honestly don't see the point, arraysize is already
  there, like many other externals.
 
  It's like you wrote above. People _do_ want patches to be as
cross-platform
  as possible. (Not if.)
 
 

 For me, apt-get install pd-arraysize is far easier than trying to
  remember that [expr] trick. And thankfully we can write externals,
  so we can have choice. :-)
 
  If it were a wild hack I'd agree, but it's not. It is a standard
operator for
  [expr] that's been there for ages and is clearly documented.
 
  And who is this mythical user that looks to the Debian repositories
  to figure out how to do something in a programming language?
  (Hm, I'm not getting audio output, let's open up Synaptic and search
  20,000 mostly non-related packages for a solution...)
 
  -Jonathan
 
 

 .hc

 On 09/27/2012 03:00 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
  That feature comes at the expense of compatibility, which
  normally wouldn't be an issue _except_ that Pd
  Vanilla already has the same functionality. So let's
  encourage
  use of the more compatible way using [expr], which is
  clearly documented and supports the _exact_ same features
  as arraysize.
 
  -Jonathan
 
 
 
 
  
  From: Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at
  To: pd-list@iem.at
  Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 2:24 PM
  Subject: Re: [PD] [PD-announce] apt.puredata.info is
  back!
 
 
 
 
  IMHO, arraysize is very useful because it has a memorable
  name. I
  need to find the size of an array... oh, [arraysize].
 
  .hc
 
  On 09/27/2012 02:13 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
  Please change the description for the package
  pd-arraysize
 
  This object is deprecated. Use [expr
  size(array-name)]
  which works out of the box for Pd Extended, Pd
  Vanilla,
  and Pd-l2ork.
 
  -Jonathan
 
 
 
  - Original Message -
  From: IOhannes m zmoelnig zmoel...@iem.at
  To: pd-annou...@iem.at
  Cc:
  Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 9:13 AM
  Subject: [PD] [PD-announce]
  apt.puredata.info is back!
 
  last night hans and me finally setup a
  replacement machine
  for
  apt.puredata.info[1], the ultimate source for
  Pd-extended on
  Debian-based systems (Debian, Ubuntu, Li
  fgmasdfnux/Mint,...)[2].
 
  it is now hosted on the puredata.info
  portal/mailinglist
  server,
  courtesy of iem.
 
  fgmasdf
  IOhannes
 
 
 
  [1] http://apt.puredata.info/
  [2] http://puredata.info/docs/faq/debian
 
 
 
  ___
  Pd-announce mailing list
  pd-annou...@iem.at
  http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-announce
 
 
  ___
  Pd-list@iem.at mailing list
  UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -
  http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
 
 
  ___
  Pd-list@iem.at mailing list
  UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -
http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

Re: [PD] pd-extended 0.42.5 packages for many Ubuntu releases, i386/amd64

2012-09-27 Thread Hans-Christoph Steiner 

Check puredata.info, there is a page called LibrariesInPd-extended or
something like that.  It has the list, there are many.  And I'll
probably be dropping more since I can't keep up as it is.

.hc

On 09/27/2012 04:08 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
 How many unmaintained libs are there currently in Pd-extended?

 -Jonathan




 - Original Message -
 From: Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at
 To: Billy Stiltner billy.stilt...@gmail.com
 Cc: Pd List pd-list@iem.at
 Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 3:04 PM
 Subject: Re: [PD] pd-extended 0.42.5 packages for many Ubuntu releases, 
 i386/amd64

 On 09/24/2012 12:42 AM, Billy Stiltner wrote:
  I used to use a compiler that would do cross compilng - anything from
  playstation , gameboy to a Microchip PIC16Fxxx.
  it would be nice to have something like that for  linux, windows, and mac.

  Are you including the iemlib in these packages or is it just there
  waiting to be not included anymore.
  I like the filters in that library even though when I send the stuff
  they don't like and they explode almost,
  ~alindx takes care of keeping it a controlled blast.
  to find a limiter that will do the same is my gettin on it.
 The current snapshot of 'iemlib' will be included in Pd-extended as long
 as it doesn't break.  It currently does not have a maintainer in
 Pd-extended, so if it breaks on a supported platform, it'll be removed.

 .hc

 ___
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 UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - 
 http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list



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Re: [PD] pd-extended 0.42.5 packages for many Ubuntu releases, i386/amd64

2012-09-27 Thread Hans-Christoph Steiner 
On 09/27/2012 06:11 PM, András Murányi wrote:
 On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 6:47 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.atwrote:

 On 09/27/2012 10:30 AM, András Murányi wrote:
 On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 1:20 AM, András Murányi muran...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 8:22 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at
 wrote:
 launchpad only builds packages for the Ubuntu releases, but you could
 use
 one of the Ubuntu packages on Debian if you find an Ubuntu release
 that is
 close to your Debian release.

 I hear that OpenSUSE's build server will build Debian packages, but
 I've
 never used it.  It would be very useful if someone set that up, I
 think can
 also build Fedora and SUSE packages.


 I played around with OpenSUSE's OBS but it's not a success yet.
 It needs a something.spec file for building RPMs and a something.dsc
 file
 for DEBs. Both files serve to define a source package.
 For the spec file, I started from one well worked out for Planet CCRMA
 by
 Fernando Lopez-Lezcano. It's looking good for the OBS right now except
 that
 I'm struggling with the source definition, i.e. it doesn't seem to be
 able
 to grab the tar.gz from sourceforge.
 For the debian dsc file, I used Paul Brossier's one. The dsc is much
 simpler, but it cannot accept source urls, only local files. That's
 where
 OBS's so-called Source Service comes into the picture, which can
 download
 a tar.gz or even checkout an svn repo and tar.gz it for me. I'm
 struggling
 with this too, because (1) I'm unable to grab the resulting tar.gz from
 the
 dsc (it's created with an odd name that contains a colon) and (2) in the
 dsc an MD5 checksum of the tar.gz needs to be present which is unknown
 in
 the case of an archive newly created from SVN.
 I'll try to grow smarter with OBS, but in the meantime, any advice is
 highly appreciated. :)

 Update: both source access problems are solved for now.
 The deb build at the moment is stuck at the point where it doesn't
 recognize the source package as a valid one. Dunno why.
 The rpm build got as far as where it would have needed mp3lame - seems
 that
 it's only available with Planet CCRMA (?). GEM builds fine. I'm playing
 around with conditionals for requires for different CPU capabilities,
 because OBS's spec file parser is somewhat limited.
 More news soon, hopefully.
 Deb source packages are too tricky to create manually, use the Debian
 tools.  If you are working from a git repo, like for puredata, the use
 git-buildpackage -S.   For any repo with the debian/ folder there, you
 can use debuild -S

 You will need to change the debian/changelog to have your name and email
 in it, so that the signing part works, if opensuse requires signed
 packages.  Launchpad, Debian, and Ubuntu all do.

 At the very least, you'll want to do:

 sudo apt-get install dpkg-dev devscripts debhelper cdbs

 You can also download the source packages from the Debian or Ubuntu
 official packages, but they'll be signed by the original uploaders key.
 That wouldn't work with Launchpad but might with OBS, if it has looser
 signing restrictions.

 Cool, I've actually paid less attention to the deb process on OBS knowing
 that it's already worked out and up-to-date somewhere else. I'll take a
 look at how I can reuse those packages.
 OBS doesn't need signed packages, an I haven't tried if it accepts packages
 signed by someone else.

It could be a useful way to provide Debian/squeeze packages.

 If you want to try my new Pd-extended proper debian support, run:

 $ ~/auto-build/pd-extended/scripts/auto-build/pd-extended-source-tarball.sh
 $ mv /tmp/Pd-extended_0.43.1~20120926-source.tar.bz2
 ~/auto-build/pd-extended_0.43.1~20120926.orig.tar.bz2
 $ cd ~/auto-build/pd-extended
 $ debuild -S -uc -us

 Hm, I don't have this script yet in ~auto-build/ ... It seems it doesn't
 work if I just download it to any place along with its whole folder, but I
 cannot run it from the main run-automated-builder script either, because
 rsync cannot reach the server.

you need to get them from SVN:

cd ~/auto-build/pd-extended/scripts
svn up
cd ..
svn up

The rsync method is gone for now, and perhaps permanently.  I'm trying
to see if I can make the cleaning process work without rsync.



 (the -uc -us) means ignore the whole signing procedure, including the
 name in the debian/changelog)


 Also, its great that you are taking on the spec file for RPMs!  Once you

 get 'puredata' working, then it would be very handy if you could make
 one for the externals/template.  Then it'll be easy to make RPMs for
 most of the libraries in Pd-extended, just like what's in Debian.

 I've never made RPMs before, but I've done a lot of other packaging, so
 I'll help where I can.

 Well, the deb thing is stuck at this line now:

 dpkg-source: error: unrecognized file for a v1.0 source package:
 Pd-0.42.5-extended.tar.gz

 The file is pulled from
 http://sourceforge.net/projects/pure-data/files/pd-extended/0.42.5/Pd-0.42.5-extended.tar.gz
 (It has a

Re: [PD] arraysize WAS apt.puredata.info is back!

2012-09-27 Thread Jonathan Wilkes 




- Original Message -
 From: Miller Puckette m...@ucsd.edu
 To: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com
 Cc: Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at; pd-list@iem.at pd-list@iem.at
 Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 5:54 PM
 Subject: Re: [PD] arraysize WAS apt.puredata.info is back!
 
 On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 01:42:51PM -0700, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
  
   From: Miller Puckette m...@ucsd.edu
  To: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com 
  Cc: Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at; 
 pd-list@iem.at pd-list@iem.at 
  Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 3:59 PM
  Subject: Re: [PD] arraysize WAS apt.puredata.info is back!
   
  Sorry to further complicate this -
  
  I'm now trying to design a multipurpose object array 
 for pd
  vanilla that would allow one to say [array size] and use 
 table or
  data structure arrays intercahngeably.
 
 
  Interesting.  Will this allow a data structure array to be used by
  [tab*~] objects?  That's one thing that would make ds arrays
  very valuable (think of all the queries to the list about how to get
  different colored arrays, for example) but I never figured out an
  easy way to do it.
 
  BTW, I've got a patch somewhere that did mouseover/mouseout
  notifications to [struct] but I can't seem to find it now.  I also 
 tried
  outputting pointer x/y location with click events to [struct] 
 but
  couldn't get it working right for GOP stuff.
 
  -Jonathan
 
 Yeah, I'm hoping to completely unify arrays in structs with 
 table arrays -
 wish me luck :)

Sounds great.

 
 Good idea about the mouseovers - I think Pd is doing all teh work anyhow so
 it should be made available.

That's true.

 The whole data thing needs lots and lots more
 thinking.
 
 cheers
 Miller
 

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Re: [PD] arraysize WAS apt.puredata.info is back!

2012-09-27 Thread Miller Puckette 
Hmm... I agree there's bad confusion between array and table in Pd
nomenclature.  I've tried to use table for a specifically floating-point
array, and array for the more general thing, but I think I've been
less than consistent (case in point, the array menu which creates what
I would call a table.

One idea might be to use the name [tab] instead of [array], as in 
[tab size] - then [tabwrite] could get a synonym, [tab write], etc.

This is also mixed up in my trying to design a new [text] that would
replace and vastly extend [textfile] - so the three multifarious object
names would then be [list] [tab]/[array] and [text].  

The [table] object could be vastly extended: [table foo] would be equivalent
to [tab define foo] and you could say for instance, 
[tab define foo -struct my-struct -save -range 0 100]

(But, oops, that use of 'tab' would really be what I've been tring to use
'array' for in that it would presumably not be an array of floats.)

Too much to think about... that's why it takes so many years to get the
thing written...

cheers
Miller

On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 06:19:40PM -0400, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
 
 Sounds like a good complication :).  I think a general array toolkit
 would be very useful.  I'm not a fan of expanding the use of Tcl syntax
 in Pd tho (i.e. commands with subcommands).
 
 Pd syntax is nice and simple with always the first word being the
 command and the rest being the args.  [list ...] is the only except to
 this that I can think of, and certainly the only exception included in
 pd-vanilla.
 
 How about just naming them like [tabsize], [tabfoo], etc since there
 already are lots of [tab...] objects.  Or anything to minimize the
 confusion between the 'array', 'table', and 'tab*' objects.  Since there
 is [table] and [tab*], the menu item Put - Array could be renamed to
 Put visual table (array) or something like that, then the word
 table/tab would be pretty consistent throughout Pd.
 
 It may seem trivial, but I've spent a lot of time explaining why the
 objects for reading arrays all start with 'tab'.
 
 .hc
 
 On 09/27/2012 03:59 PM, Miller Puckette wrote:
  Sorry to further complicate this -
 
  I'm now trying to design a multipurpose object array for pd
  vanilla that would allow one to say [array size] and use table or
  data structure arrays intercahngeably.
 
  I think though, that rather than marking arraysize as obsolete one
  could simply note that it has an equivalent available in Pd vanilla -
  that need carry no value judgement as to whether people should be using
  vanilla or extended.
 
  cheers
  M
 
  On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 12:23:35PM -0700, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
  
  From: Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at
  To: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com
  Cc: pd-list@iem.at pd-list@iem.at
  Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 3:03 PM
  Subject: arraysize WAS apt.puredata.info is back!
 
 
 
  If someone wants to write patches that work on vanilla anywhere,
   then there is a point.
  
   _Everybody_ wants to write patches that work on vanilla everywhere.
  
   When we can't we try to figure out a course of action, but when we
   can (without employing wild hacks) we should.
  
  
  If people are already using Pd-extended or
   Debian then I honestly don't see the point, arraysize is already
   there, like many other externals.
  
   It's like you wrote above. People _do_ want patches to be as
 cross-platform
   as possible. (Not if.)
  
  
 
  For me, apt-get install pd-arraysize is far easier than trying to
   remember that [expr] trick. And thankfully we can write externals,
   so we can have choice. :-)
  
   If it were a wild hack I'd agree, but it's not. It is a standard
 operator for
   [expr] that's been there for ages and is clearly documented.
  
   And who is this mythical user that looks to the Debian repositories
   to figure out how to do something in a programming language?
   (Hm, I'm not getting audio output, let's open up Synaptic and search
   20,000 mostly non-related packages for a solution...)
  
   -Jonathan
  
  
 
  .hc
 
  On 09/27/2012 03:00 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
   That feature comes at the expense of compatibility, which
   normally wouldn't be an issue _except_ that Pd
   Vanilla already has the same functionality. So let's
   encourage
   use of the more compatible way using [expr], which is
   clearly documented and supports the _exact_ same features
   as arraysize.
  
   -Jonathan
  
  
  
  
   
   From: Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at
   To: pd-list@iem.at
   Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 2:24 PM
   Subject: Re: [PD] [PD-announce] apt.puredata.info is
   back!
  
  
  
  
   IMHO, arraysize is very useful because it has a memorable
   name. I
   need to find the size of an array... oh, [arraysize].
  
   .hc
  
   On 09/27/2012 02:13 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
   Please change the description for the package
   pd-arraysize
  
   This

Re: [PD] arraysize WAS apt.puredata.info is back!

2012-09-27 Thread Jonathan Wilkes 




- Original Message -
 From: Miller Puckette m...@ucsd.edu
 To: Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at
 Cc: pd-list@iem.at pd-list@iem.at
 Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 8:01 PM
 Subject: Re: [PD] arraysize WAS apt.puredata.info is back!
 
 Hmm... I agree there's bad confusion between array and table in Pd
 nomenclature.  I've tried to use table for a specifically 
 floating-point
 array, and array for the more general thing, but I think I've 
 been
 less than consistent (case in point, the array menu which creates 
 what
 I would call a table.
 
 One idea might be to use the name [tab] instead of [array], as in 
 [tab size] - then [tabwrite] could get a synonym, [tab write], etc.
 
 This is also mixed up in my trying to design a new [text] that would
 replace and vastly extend [textfile] - so the three multifarious object
 names would then be [list] [tab]/[array] and [text].  
 
 The [table] object could be vastly extended: [table foo] would be equivalent
 to [tab define foo] and you could say for instance, 
 [tab define foo -struct my-struct -save -range 0 100]

If you're not requiring the user to name the array z and requiring
z to have a float field y then you would need

[tab define foo -struct my-struct -array z -y y]

where -y defines which field to use as the independent variable
in the table (similar to -y in [plot]).

 
 (But, oops, that use of 'tab' would really be what I've been tring 
 to use
 'array' for in that it would presumably not be an array of floats.)
 
 Too much to think about... that's why it takes so many years to get the
 thing written...
 
 cheers
 Miller
 
 On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 06:19:40PM -0400, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
 
  Sounds like a good complication :).  I think a general array toolkit
  would be very useful.  I'm not a fan of expanding the use of Tcl syntax
  in Pd tho (i.e. commands with subcommands).
 
  Pd syntax is nice and simple with always the first word being the
  command and the rest being the args.  [list ...] is the only except to
  this that I can think of, and certainly the only exception included in
  pd-vanilla.
 
  How about just naming them like [tabsize], [tabfoo], etc since there
  already are lots of [tab...] objects.  Or anything to minimize the
  confusion between the 'array', 'table', and 'tab*' 
 objects.  Since there
  is [table] and [tab*], the menu item Put - Array could be renamed to
  Put visual table (array) or something like that, then the word
  table/tab would be pretty consistent throughout Pd.
 
  It may seem trivial, but I've spent a lot of time explaining why the
  objects for reading arrays all start with 'tab'.
 
  .hc
 
  On 09/27/2012 03:59 PM, Miller Puckette wrote:
   Sorry to further complicate this -
  
   I'm now trying to design a multipurpose object array 
 for pd
   vanilla that would allow one to say [array size] and use 
 table or
   data structure arrays intercahngeably.
  
   I think though, that rather than marking arraysize as 
 obsolete one
   could simply note that it has an equivalent available in Pd vanilla -
   that need carry no value judgement as to whether people should be 
 using
   vanilla or extended.
  
   cheers
   M
  
   On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 12:23:35PM -0700, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
   
   From: Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at
   To: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com
   Cc: pd-list@iem.at pd-list@iem.at
   Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 3:03 PM
   Subject: arraysize WAS apt.puredata.info is back!
  
  
  
   If someone wants to write patches that work on vanilla anywhere,
then there is a point.
   
_Everybody_ wants to write patches that work on vanilla 
 everywhere.
   
When we can't we try to figure out a course of action, 
 but when we
can (without employing wild hacks) we should.
   
   
   If people are already using Pd-extended or
Debian then I honestly don't see the point, arraysize is 
 already
there, like many other externals.
   
It's like you wrote above. People _do_ want patches to be 
 as
  cross-platform
as possible. (Not if.)
   
   
  
   For me, apt-get install pd-arraysize is far easier than trying to
remember that [expr] trick. And thankfully we can write 
 externals,
so we can have choice. :-)
   
If it were a wild hack I'd agree, but it's not. It is 
 a standard
  operator for
[expr] that's been there for ages and is clearly 
 documented.
   
And who is this mythical user that looks to the Debian 
 repositories
to figure out how to do something in a programming language?
(Hm, I'm not getting audio output, let's open up 
 Synaptic and search
20,000 mostly non-related packages for a solution...)
   
-Jonathan
   
   
  
   .hc
  
   On 09/27/2012 03:00 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
That feature comes at the expense of compatibility, 
 which
normally wouldn't be an issue _except_ that Pd
Vanilla already has the same functionality. So 
 let's

Re: [PD] arraysize WAS apt.puredata.info is back!

2012-09-27 Thread Miller Puckette 
  
  The [table] object could be vastly extended: [table foo] would be equivalent
  to [tab define foo] and you could say for instance, 
  [tab define foo -struct my-struct -save -range 0 100]
 
 If you're not requiring the user to name the array z and requiring
 z to have a float field y then you would need
 
 [tab define foo -struct my-struct -array z -y y]
 
 where -y defines which field to use as the independent variable
 in the table (similar to -y in [plot]).
 
I'm thinking in the above that foo would be an array of items of my-structs,
not a struct with an array such as 'z' inside it.

Another way of invoking tab would allow you to attach a name temporarily
or permanently to an array within a struct (provided via a pointer message).
Then indeed you'd need the field name such as 'z'.

cheers
M

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Re: [PD] arraysize WAS apt.puredata.info is back!

2012-09-27 Thread Simon Wise 

On 28/09/12 03:23, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:


And who is this mythical user that looks to the Debian repositories
to figure out how to do something in a programming language?
(Hm, I'm not getting audio output, let's open up Synaptic and search
20,000 mostly non-related packages for a solution...)


they are at all not mythical, though not as numerous as those using apple, 
windows or a pre-assembled linux distribution.


once you get to know apt-get, apt-file, apt-cache and friends those 20,000 
packages and their contents are very accessible, very well indexed in many 
useful ways and searching is incredibly quick and powerful ... then installing 
the result is usually painless, with all dependencies taken care of by the 
packagers. Running sid rather than stable you get a quite recent set of 
libraries all in sync version-wise, and sources available, to compile your own 
packages.


certainly not the typical pd user, but also certainly not a mythical one either, 
and since the work done for such a package is by one or other such user then 
that seems very reasonable to me.


Simon

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Re: [PD] arraysize WAS apt.puredata.info is back!

2012-09-27 Thread Jonathan Wilkes 
- Original Message -

 From: Miller Puckette m...@ucsd.edu
 To: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com
 Cc: Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at; pd-list@iem.at pd-list@iem.at
 Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 10:27 PM
 Subject: Re: [PD] arraysize WAS apt.puredata.info is back!
 
   
   The [table] object could be vastly extended: [table foo] would be 
 equivalent
   to [tab define foo] and you could say for instance, 
   [tab define foo -struct my-struct -save -range 0 100]
 
  If you're not requiring the user to name the array z and 
 requiring
  z to have a float field y then you would need
 
  [tab define foo -struct my-struct -array z -y y
 
  where -y defines which field to use as the independent variable
  in the table (similar to -y in [plot]).
 
 I'm thinking in the above that foo would be an array of items of my-structs,
 not a struct with an array such as 'z' inside it.

In that case would [tab write foo] take an index number in the right inlet and
a list of field values in the left?

 
 Another way of invoking tab would allow you to attach a name temporarily
 or permanently to an array within a struct (provided via a pointer message).
 Then indeed you'd need the field name such as 'z'.
 
 cheers
 M
 

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Re: [PD] arraysize WAS apt.puredata.info is back!

2012-09-27 Thread Miller Puckette 
On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 07:53:11PM -0700, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
 - Original Message -
 
  From: Miller Puckette m...@ucsd.edu
  To: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com
  Cc: Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at; pd-list@iem.at 
  pd-list@iem.at
  Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 10:27 PM
  Subject: Re: [PD] arraysize WAS apt.puredata.info is back!
  

The [table] object could be vastly extended: [table foo] would be 
  equivalent
to [tab define foo] and you could say for instance, 
[tab define foo -struct my-struct -save -range 0 100]
  
   If you're not requiring the user to name the array z and 
  requiring
   z to have a float field y then you would need
  
   [tab define foo -struct my-struct -array z -y y
  
   where -y defines which field to use as the independent variable
   in the table (similar to -y in [plot]).
  
  I'm thinking in the above that foo would be an array of items of my-structs,
  not a struct with an array such as 'z' inside it.
 
 In that case would [tab write foo] take an index number in the right inlet and
 a list of field values in the left?
 
I haven't thought that one through yet.  Perhaps it should just write a float
or symbol to a field in the struct, i.e., [tab write foo a] would write to
the field a, and the field name could default to 'y'.

One thing I'm struggling with is that the objects that access data structures
are abstruse and hard to use.  I think more and more that some sort of
scripting facility would be the only way to make it easy to do tasks like
simply counting the elements in a window that now require insane patches.

cheers
Miller

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Re: [PD] arraysize WAS apt.puredata.info is back!

2012-09-27 Thread Jonathan Wilkes 




- Original Message -
 From: Simon Wise simonzw...@gmail.com
 To: pd-list@iem.at
 Cc: 
 Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 10:33 PM
 Subject: Re: [PD] arraysize WAS apt.puredata.info is back!
 
 On 28/09/12 03:23, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
 
  And who is this mythical user that looks to the Debian repositories
  to figure out how to do something in a programming language?
  (Hm, I'm not getting audio output, let's open up Synaptic and 
 search
  20,000 mostly non-related packages for a solution...)
 
 they are at all not mythical, though not as numerous as those using apple, 
 windows or a pre-assembled linux distribution.

That's not what I'm talking about.

I'm referring to what Hans wrote:
For me, apt-get install pd-arraysize is far easier than trying to
remember that [expr] trick.  And thankfully we can write externals,
so we can have choice. :-)

That implies that the user who needs to get an array size but can't
figure out how to do it would either a) remember that one of the many
pd-related packages they happened to see in a query does the job
and decides to install it or, more likely, b) consider the Debian repo
a good place to search for help on Pd.  Neither is generally true, and
typing pd array in Synaptic only works because that's a single object
library that does the _exact_ thing the user wants.  (Forget for the
moment that its an unnecessary external and that expr trick is clearly
documented.)  Otherwise it's
worse than the ctrl-b browser because you have to do the work of
installing each lib just to see whether those are the correct objects
you need, and whether they are actually in working order and don't
crash your system (which is evidently not an obstacle to getting
something included in the Debian repos, unfortunately-- just try opening
ascwave-help.pd from the cxc library).

Also keep in mind that the ease of installing pd-arraysize in Debian doesn't
translate to ease in non-Debian systems of users who may be trying
to read/understand a patch.

I like Debian's repo system a lot-- in fact I think it's the most
wildly successful model for distributing software in a stable and secure
manner  (one that unfortunately Google, Apple, and to some extent
even Gnome with its extension system seem to ignore).  But it's not a
help system.

BTW-- if you type array size in my search gui-plugin the first result is
all_about_arrays.pd, which indeed explains the expr trick.  No installation
necessary.  Granted I revised the patch to demonstrate the method that
works across more flavors of Pd than the other one, but still... :)

-Jonathan

 
 once you get to know apt-get, apt-file, apt-cache and friends those 20,000 
 packages and their contents are very accessible, very well indexed in many 
 useful ways and searching is incredibly quick and powerful ... then 
 installing 
 the result is usually painless, with all dependencies taken care of by the 
 packagers. Running sid rather than stable you get a quite recent set of 
 libraries all in sync version-wise, and sources available, to compile your 
 own 
 packages.
 
 certainly not the typical pd user, but also certainly not a mythical one 
 either, 
 and since the work done for such a package is by one or other such user then 
 that seems very reasonable to me.
 
 Simon
 
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Re: [PD] arraysize WAS apt.puredata.info is back!

2012-09-27 Thread Simon Wise 

On 28/09/12 11:38, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:


- Original Message -

From: Simon Wisesimonzw...@gmail.com



  And who is this mythical user that looks to the Debian repositories
  to figure out how to do something in a programming language?
  (Hm, I'm not getting audio output, let's open up Synaptic and

search

  20,000 mostly non-related packages for a solution...)


they are at all not mythical, though not as numerous as those using apple,
windows or a pre-assembled linux distribution.


That's not what I'm talking about.

I'm referring to what Hans wrote:

For me, apt-get install pd-arraysize is far easier than trying to

 remember that [expr] trick.  And thankfully we can write externals,
 so we can have choice. :-)


exactly ...


certainly not the typical pd user, but also certainly not a mythical one either,
and since the work done for such a package is by one or other such user then
that seems very reasonable to me.

Simon

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Re: [PD] arraysize WAS apt.puredata.info is back!

2012-09-27 Thread Jonathan Wilkes 




- Original Message -
 From: Simon Wise simonzw...@gmail.com
 To: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com
 Cc: pd-list@iem.at pd-list@iem.at
 Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 11:52 PM
 Subject: Re: [PD] arraysize WAS apt.puredata.info is back!
 
 On 28/09/12 11:38, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
 
  - Original Message -
  From: Simon Wisesimonzw...@gmail.com
 
    And who is this mythical user that looks to the Debian 
 repositories
    to figure out how to do something in a programming language?
    (Hm, I'm not getting audio output, let's open up Synaptic 
 and
  search
    20,000 mostly non-related packages for a solution...)
 
  they are at all not mythical, though not as numerous as those using 
 apple,
  windows or a pre-assembled linux distribution.
 
  That's not what I'm talking about.
 
  I'm referring to what Hans wrote:
  For me, apt-get install pd-arraysize is far easier than trying to
       remember that [expr] trick.  And thankfully we can write externals,
       so we can have choice. :-)
 
 exactly ...

Not exactly-- you were referring to using the Debian packaging
system in a general sense to find packages, and you were saying that
calling someone who uses it a mythical user is not inaccurate.
But that's not what I wrote-- I'm referring to using the Debian packaging
system to figure out how to solve a specific problem in the programming
language, and that's not what the packaging system is for.

Anyway, it's easier to not install something than it is to install something.
And it's a false choice between installing an external and memorizing
the help patch for expr.  But I think Hans is making that false choice
because my revision of expr-help.pd, which has a comprehensive list
of the expr operators, doesn't come up when you right-click expr.

Hans: what do I need to do to get the PDDP help patchs for the expr
family to show up on right-clicking Help?

-Jonathan

 
  certainly not the typical pd user, but also certainly not a mythical 
 one either,
  and since the work done for such a package is by one or other such user 
 then
  that seems very reasonable to me.
 
  Simon
 
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