Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd-0.40.3-extended-rc2 released
Hallo, Hans-Christoph Steiner hat gesagt: // Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: The grand plan is to have no libraries loaded by default. Then the library configuration would be completely embedded in the patch, like python does with import. $ python Python 2.4.4c0 (#2, Jul 30 2006, 15:43:58) [GCC 4.1.2 20060715 (prerelease) (Debian 4.1.1-9)] on linux2 Type help, copyright, credits or license for more information. sin(0.5) Traceback (most recent call last): File stdin, line 1, in ? NameError: name 'sin' is not defined math.sin(0.5) Traceback (most recent call last): File stdin, line 1, in ? NameError: name 'math' is not defined import math math.sin(0.5) 0.47942553860420301 Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org__ ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd-0.40.3-extended-rc2 released
Frank Barknecht wrote: Hallo, Hans-Christoph Steiner hat gesagt: // Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: The grand plan is to have no libraries loaded by default. Then the library configuration would be completely embedded in the patch, like python does with import. $ python Python 2.4.4c0 (#2, Jul 30 2006, 15:43:58) [GCC 4.1.2 20060715 (prerelease) (Debian 4.1.1-9)] on linux2 Type help, copyright, credits or license for more information. sin(0.5) Traceback (most recent call last): File stdin, line 1, in ? NameError: name 'sin' is not defined math.sin(0.5) Traceback (most recent call last): File stdin, line 1, in ? NameError: name 'math' is not defined import math math.sin(0.5) 0.47942553860420301 Ciao is this a good idea? pd comes with a set of tools, I don't see a reason why I should import [bang] before I can use it. I (don't) want to be treated like a child in a sandpit here: mummy, can I have the shovel? say please please can I have the shovel? you know, my darling, this shovel is from toys r us... can you say, mummy please can I have the shovel from toys r us? please can I have the shovel from toys r us? cutie! say thank you thank you kiss mummy! kiss... marius. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd-0.40.3-extended-rc2 released
* On 2008-07-22 marius schebella [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote : Frank Barknecht wrote: Hallo, Hans-Christoph Steiner hat gesagt: // Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: The grand plan is to have no libraries loaded by default. Then the library configuration would be completely embedded in the patch, like python does with import. $ python Python 2.4.4c0 (#2, Jul 30 2006, 15:43:58) [GCC 4.1.2 20060715 (prerelease) (Debian 4.1.1-9)] on linux2 Type help, copyright, credits or license for more information. sin(0.5) Traceback (most recent call last): File stdin, line 1, in ? NameError: name 'sin' is not defined math.sin(0.5) Traceback (most recent call last): File stdin, line 1, in ? NameError: name 'math' is not defined import math math.sin(0.5) 0.47942553860420301 Ciao is this a good idea? pd comes with a set of tools, I don't see a reason why I should import [bang] before I can use it. I (don't) want to be treated like a child in a sandpit here: mummy, can I have the shovel? say please please can I have the shovel? you know, my darling, this shovel is from toys r us... can you say, mummy please can I have the shovel from toys r us? please can I have the shovel from toys r us? cutie! say thank you thank you kiss mummy! kiss... marius. Or the other version: mummy, can I have the shovel which shovel, dear, the red one or the blue one the blue one here you are dear Next time, you'll learn to ask for one of the specific shovels right away: red/shovel or blue/shovel. -- :wq ^X^Cy^K^X^C^C^C^C ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd-0.40.3-extended-rc2 released
Ico Doornekamp wrote: * On 2008-07-22 marius schebella [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote : Frank Barknecht wrote: Hallo, Hans-Christoph Steiner hat gesagt: // Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: The grand plan is to have no libraries loaded by default. Then the library configuration would be completely embedded in the patch, like python does with import. $ python Python 2.4.4c0 (#2, Jul 30 2006, 15:43:58) [GCC 4.1.2 20060715 (prerelease) (Debian 4.1.1-9)] on linux2 Type help, copyright, credits or license for more information. sin(0.5) Traceback (most recent call last): File stdin, line 1, in ? NameError: name 'sin' is not defined math.sin(0.5) Traceback (most recent call last): File stdin, line 1, in ? NameError: name 'math' is not defined import math math.sin(0.5) 0.47942553860420301 Ciao is this a good idea? pd comes with a set of tools, I don't see a reason why I should import [bang] before I can use it. I (don't) want to be treated like a child in a sandpit here: mummy, can I have the shovel? say please please can I have the shovel? you know, my darling, this shovel is from toys r us... can you say, mummy please can I have the shovel from toys r us? please can I have the shovel from toys r us? cutie! say thank you thank you kiss mummy! kiss... marius. Or the other version: mummy, can I have the shovel which shovel, dear, the red one or the blue one the blue one here you are dear Next time, you'll learn to ask for one of the specific shovels right away: red/shovel or blue/shovel. no, there is only one shovel, if I want to change the color, I send it a message [color 13(. The above examples are bad schoolmasterly ways of doing it. to me these conceptual and programming decisions are backround informations that I don't want to hassle with as a user. pushing the decision blue.shovel vs. red.shovel to the user is imho conservative and uncreative. and btw any categorisation system is outdated/wrong in so many cases. I want to see pd more as a colloquial language that I can actually use, as opposed to a philosophical one, where I have to explain every word. communication.human.writtenlanguage.english.word.I communication.human.writtenlanguage.english.word.will communication.human.writtenlanguage.english.word.pack communication.human.writtenlanguage.english.word.my communication.human.writtenlanguage.english.word.us-corporate.apple.macbookpro.laptop communication.human.writtenlanguage.english.word.and communication.human.writtenlanguage.english.word.leave communication.human.writtenlanguage.english.word.time.now. marius. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd-0.40.3-extended-rc2 released
On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 09:56:58AM -0400, marius schebella wrote: Frank Barknecht wrote: $ python Python 2.4.4c0 (#2, Jul 30 2006, 15:43:58) [GCC 4.1.2 20060715 (prerelease) (Debian 4.1.1-9)] on linux2 Type help, copyright, credits or license for more information. sin(0.5) Traceback (most recent call last): File stdin, line 1, in ? NameError: name 'sin' is not defined math.sin(0.5) Traceback (most recent call last): File stdin, line 1, in ? NameError: name 'math' is not defined import math math.sin(0.5) 0.47942553860420301 as opposed to a philosophical one, where I have to explain every word. communication.human.writtenlanguage.english.word.and communication.human.writtenlanguage.english.word.leave In Python you can also say: from math import sin sin(0.5) 0.47942553860420301 or even from math import * so for your examples you'd say: from communication.human.writtenlanguage.english.word import * and leave The reason for this is that if you import absolutely everything into your global namespace by default, you pollute it and cause conflicts and name clashes. This has been discussed several times on the list and is a terrible idea. This has also been solved 100% by languages like Python already, as illustrated by Frank above. Things like [bang] are core types of the language and should probably be imported into the global namespace by default. Best, Chris. --- http://mccormick.cx ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd-0.40.3-extended-rc2 released
Hallo, Chris McCormick hat gesagt: // Chris McCormick wrote: In Python you can also say: from math import sin sin(0.5) 0.47942553860420301 or even from math import * so for your examples you'd say: from communication.human.writtenlanguage.english.word import * and leave The reason for this is that if you import absolutely everything into your global namespace by default, you pollute it and cause conflicts and name clashes. This has been discussed several times on the list and is a terrible idea. This has also been solved 100% by languages like Python already, as illustrated by Frank above. I think, another issue is what Pd should be like: more like Python with it's huge set of builtin, importable libraries or more like Lua with a very small core of just the necessary tools to get things running. As my example showed, in Python *everything* has to be imported except the builtin operators. In Lua you can directly call math.sin(x) without importing. But in Lua, you cannot import xml.sax.xmlreader.IncrementalParser as in Python, because Lua doesn't ship with such things. Pd-extended obviously has the Python model in mind, while I would prefer a more minimalistic, Lua-like Pd, as the latter is much easier to maintain, especially with a chaotic artsy community like ours. Then there are other problems: I don't think, there's an import or require for Pd, that works. AFAICT there's not even an agreement on how it *should* work (see the declare -path discussion). Before such an agreement is reached, code is fruitless. Even dangerous, as it adds more variables to consider when making decisions. Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org__ ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd-0.40.3-extended-rc2 released
Frank Barknecht wrote: Pd-extended obviously has the Python model in mind, while I would prefer a more minimalistic, Lua-like Pd, A really nice thing in python is that it comes with batteries included. You might have to import something from a lib, but it's always there on any platform. For a beginner like me, something similar with pd makes it easier to get started... -- peace, love harmony Atte http://atte.dk | http://myspace.com/attejensen http://anagrammer.dk | http://modlys.dk ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd-0.40.3-extended-rc2 released
On Tue, Jul 8, 2008 at 9:43 PM, Luke Iannini [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 1:37 AM, IOhannes m zmoelnig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Luke Iannini wrote: So, sorry to pick on the hexloader some more : ) but it seems it is the culprit. Can anyone confirm? it makes sense. could you send me the complete output of the pd-console when loading your patch with -verbose. (might get big; so zip it and send it to me privately; or put it somewhere online...) Hi IOhannes, Sorry for the wait, I had a busy week. Here's the output... I put it online in case anyone else is interested. (I cleared the initial output messages, so it starts immediately after I click off the [sft.coral] object) Big indeed; 616 megs, be ready for that (luckily it's ideal for compression: 20.4megs zipped).* And this is only one module... if I had tried the patch where I load 16 of them I would have run out of HD space (not to mention RAM); glad I didn't : ). http://www.proyekto.net/sndrft/GiantLoad.txt.zip It occurred to me that it might make sense to cache the last known location of an object and try that location first? Or is that a hack... I don't know. But it seems it would help all loaders to do so. Also, I'm guessing stripping down my Pd-prefs to include a minimum of directories would greatly help, yea? Or, put another way, it's a good argument to accelerate use of [import]. Could anyone comment on this? I'd be interested to know whether this is actually good practice (minimizing one's path entries), and I'd also be interested in the feasibility of the caching idea (and equally interested in why (if) it's a bad idea) Cheers Luke i am not sure how to handle the problem generally yet. ideas are: - remove the recursive library search in hexloader (no more hexloading for non-C externals; who is using that anyhow? libdir doesn't seem to like hexloader so much anyhow) - remove the the HEXLOADER_PATCHES functionality (it seems to be not working anyhow) - remove the entire hexloader quirks and just claim that you cannot write objects with filenames containing special characters. after all the endless struggles with hexloader, i start tending towards the last one... fgmasdr IOhannes ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd-0.40.3-extended-rc2 released
On Jul 21, 2008, at 6:28 PM, Luke Iannini wrote: On Tue, Jul 8, 2008 at 9:43 PM, Luke Iannini [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 1:37 AM, IOhannes m zmoelnig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Luke Iannini wrote: So, sorry to pick on the hexloader some more : ) but it seems it is the culprit. Can anyone confirm? it makes sense. could you send me the complete output of the pd-console when loading your patch with -verbose. (might get big; so zip it and send it to me privately; or put it somewhere online...) Hi IOhannes, Sorry for the wait, I had a busy week. Here's the output... I put it online in case anyone else is interested. (I cleared the initial output messages, so it starts immediately after I click off the [sft.coral] object) Big indeed; 616 megs, be ready for that (luckily it's ideal for compression: 20.4megs zipped).* And this is only one module... if I had tried the patch where I load 16 of them I would have run out of HD space (not to mention RAM); glad I didn't : ). http://www.proyekto.net/sndrft/GiantLoad.txt.zip It occurred to me that it might make sense to cache the last known location of an object and try that location first? Or is that a hack... I don't know. But it seems it would help all loaders to do so. Also, I'm guessing stripping down my Pd-prefs to include a minimum of directories would greatly help, yea? Or, put another way, it's a good argument to accelerate use of [import]. Could anyone comment on this? I'd be interested to know whether this is actually good practice (minimizing one's path entries), and I'd also be interested in the feasibility of the caching idea (and equally interested in why (if) it's a bad idea) Caching would speed up load times, but would also add complexity and would mean that you would have to restart or clear the cache if you changed I think a better bet would be to reduce the search path. The grand plan is to have no libraries loaded by default. Then the library configuration would be completely embedded in the patch, like python does with import. .hc Cheers Luke i am not sure how to handle the problem generally yet. ideas are: - remove the recursive library search in hexloader (no more hexloading for non-C externals; who is using that anyhow? libdir doesn't seem to like hexloader so much anyhow) - remove the the HEXLOADER_PATCHES functionality (it seems to be not working anyhow) - remove the entire hexloader quirks and just claim that you cannot write objects with filenames containing special characters. after all the endless struggles with hexloader, i start tending towards the last one... fgmasdr IOhannes ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd-0.40.3-extended-rc2 released
Enrique Erne wrote: IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote: - remove the entire hexloader quirks and just claim that you cannot write objects with filenames containing special characters. should it work on osx? it never worked for me. i reported it a couple of times and last time i checked the bugtracker there was a very old open bug report about that. the best i ever had was that it loaded an abstraction with expr~ inside that could not create. it would be very nice to have a fully working zexy on pd-extended for all platforms. well, if Pd extended would include zexy in a way that was supported upstream (by me) - that is: as multi-object library - we would have no problems at all. i have tried quite some things to make the single-object approach work, but frankly, i am beginning to feel tired about these fruitless effords. fmgasdr. IOhannes ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd-0.40.3-extended-rc2 released
On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 1:37 AM, IOhannes m zmoelnig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Luke Iannini wrote: So, sorry to pick on the hexloader some more : ) but it seems it is the culprit. Can anyone confirm? it makes sense. could you send me the complete output of the pd-console when loading your patch with -verbose. (might get big; so zip it and send it to me privately; or put it somewhere online...) Hi IOhannes, Sorry for the wait, I had a busy week. Here's the output... I put it online in case anyone else is interested. (I cleared the initial output messages, so it starts immediately after I click off the [sft.coral] object) Big indeed; 616 megs, be ready for that (luckily it's ideal for compression: 20.4megs zipped).* And this is only one module... if I had tried the patch where I load 16 of them I would have run out of HD space (not to mention RAM); glad I didn't : ). http://www.proyekto.net/sndrft/GiantLoad.txt.zip It occurred to me that it might make sense to cache the last known location of an object and try that location first? Or is that a hack... I don't know. But it seems it would help all loaders to do so. Also, I'm guessing stripping down my Pd-prefs to include a minimum of directories would greatly help, yea? Or, put another way, it's a good argument to accelerate use of [import]. Best Luke i am not sure how to handle the problem generally yet. ideas are: - remove the recursive library search in hexloader (no more hexloading for non-C externals; who is using that anyhow? libdir doesn't seem to like hexloader so much anyhow) - remove the the HEXLOADER_PATCHES functionality (it seems to be not working anyhow) - remove the entire hexloader quirks and just claim that you cannot write objects with filenames containing special characters. after all the endless struggles with hexloader, i start tending towards the last one... fgmasdr IOhannes ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd-0.40.3-extended-rc2 released
IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote: - remove the entire hexloader quirks and just claim that you cannot write objects with filenames containing special characters. should it work on osx? it never worked for me. i reported it a couple of times and last time i checked the bugtracker there was a very old open bug report about that. the best i ever had was that it loaded an abstraction with expr~ inside that could not create. it would be very nice to have a fully working zexy on pd-extended for all platforms. load_object: Symbol 0x3c0x7e_setup not found error: BUG: no pd_objectmaker found ~ ... couldn't create Pd-0.40.3-extended-20080622 on 10.5.3 (not the newest one) eni ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd-0.40.3-extended-rc2 released
Luke Iannini wrote: So, sorry to pick on the hexloader some more : ) but it seems it is the culprit. Can anyone confirm? it makes sense. could you send me the complete output of the pd-console when loading your patch with -verbose. (might get big; so zip it and send it to me privately; or put it somewhere online...) i am not sure how to handle the problem generally yet. ideas are: - remove the recursive library search in hexloader (no more hexloading for non-C externals; who is using that anyhow? libdir doesn't seem to like hexloader so much anyhow) - remove the the HEXLOADER_PATCHES functionality (it seems to be not working anyhow) - remove the entire hexloader quirks and just claim that you cannot write objects with filenames containing special characters. after all the endless struggles with hexloader, i start tending towards the last one... fgmasdr IOhannes ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd-0.40.3-extended-rc2 released
I removed the hexloader from my startup, and the time to load for my main patch dropped down from 5 1/2 min to 1 min. Wonderful. On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 1:37 AM, IOhannes m zmoelnig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Luke Iannini wrote: So, sorry to pick on the hexloader some more : ) but it seems it is the culprit. Can anyone confirm? it makes sense. could you send me the complete output of the pd-console when loading your patch with -verbose. (might get big; so zip it and send it to me privately; or put it somewhere online...) i am not sure how to handle the problem generally yet. ideas are: - remove the recursive library search in hexloader (no more hexloading for non-C externals; who is using that anyhow? libdir doesn't seem to like hexloader so much anyhow) - remove the the HEXLOADER_PATCHES functionality (it seems to be not working anyhow) - remove the entire hexloader quirks and just claim that you cannot write objects with filenames containing special characters. after all the endless struggles with hexloader, i start tending towards the last one... fgmasdr IOhannes ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd-0.40.3-extended-rc2 released
On Sat, Jun 28, 2008 at 6:19 PM, hard off [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 10 minutes to load a patch that used to take 10-15 seconds!! Alright, so I narrowed the big jump in loadtimes to between May 18th (about the same as Vanilla) and May 22nd (between 3-4x slower). The 18th is when the hexloader was added, so I pulled it out of my most recent build and the time went right back to normal. So, sorry to pick on the hexloader some more : ) but it seems it is the culprit. Can anyone confirm? Cheers Luke ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd-0.40.3-extended-rc2 released
i found my problem, which was that pd was going nuts trying to find sssad. once i sorted that out, the loading of my patches didn't take so long. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd-0.40.3-extended-rc2 released
I think someone brought this up in another thread. I had the same problem and it seems that abstractions with the same name as their folder don't load. All you have to do is change the folder name, or the patch. I think the folder is better to change, as you only have to change the path to the folder and the folder name, whereas you will have to change every instance of the abstraction in any patch you make if you change the abstraction name. Matt On 6/29/08, hard off [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: arrghh. sorry for so many mails. one more thing: i did remove my old preference files, so i don't think that's part of the problem. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd-0.40.3-extended-rc2 released
Please submit a bug report. I haven't been able to reproduce the slowness on Ubuntu or Mac OS X. .hc On Jun 29, 2008, at 3:19 AM, hard off wrote: 10 minutes to load a patch that used to take 10-15 seconds!! also, a minor bug: when i first opened the application, i couldn't access the preferences without opening an untitled patch first. and then, when i added my abstractions directory to the paths, pd froze. i did a 'force quit', and reopened pd, and the new path seems to have been added ok though. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list ¡El pueblo unido jamás será vencido! ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd-0.40.3-extended-rc2 released
Oops, and include an example patch. .hc On Jun 29, 2008, at 3:19 AM, hard off wrote: 10 minutes to load a patch that used to take 10-15 seconds!! also, a minor bug: when i first opened the application, i couldn't access the preferences without opening an untitled patch first. and then, when i added my abstractions directory to the paths, pd froze. i did a 'force quit', and reopened pd, and the new path seems to have been added ok though. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list Free software means you control what your computer does. Non-free software means someone else controls that, and to some extent controls you. - Richard M. Stallman ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd-0.40.3-extended-rc2 released
hans, i have found the source of my problem. sorry for not adding this to the bug-tracker, as i don't check that, but i do check this mailing list often. for some totally weird reason, this version of extended won't let me load sssad.pd i added the path to the sssad folder, and that's no problem. but when i try to create a sssad object, the following happens: pd 'thinks' for about 10 seconds, then the console is bombarded with: libdir_loader: added 'sssad' to the canvas-local objectclass path libdir_loader: added 'sssad' to the canvas-local objectclass path libdir_loader: added 'sssad' to the canvas-local objectclass path ...about 1000 times, and then finally says: error: maximum object loading depth 1000 reached sssad ... couldn't create if i change the name of sssad.pd to anything else ( eg. sssad2.pd ) then it loads fine as an abstraction. if i open the sssad.pd patch by itself, then that also works. but for some reason, i cannot create [sssad] as an abstraction in another patch. this is on mac os 10.49 intel ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd-0.40.3-extended-rc2 released
by the way, if i just type gibberish into an object box (eq. [brrgghh] ) then pd only takes about a second to see that as unidentified object and gives me dotted red lines around the object box. i have no idea why sssad would be acting this way. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd-0.40.3-extended-rc2 released
arrghh. sorry for so many mails. one more thing: i did remove my old preference files, so i don't think that's part of the problem. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd-0.40.3-extended-rc2 released
10 minutes to load a patch that used to take 10-15 seconds!! also, a minor bug: when i first opened the application, i couldn't access the preferences without opening an untitled patch first. and then, when i added my abstractions directory to the paths, pd froze. i did a 'force quit', and reopened pd, and the new path seems to have been added ok though. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd-0.40.3-extended-rc2 released
Something is loading pyext. Try deleting your preferences file. It is ~/Library/Preferences/org.puredata.pd.plist .hc On Fri, 27 Jun 2008, bbarros wrote: Hi Hans, I didn't open any patch, just PD itself. cheers, Bernardo 2008/6/27 Hans-Christoph Steiner [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Looks like it is a problem with pyext, since that's what is on top of the crashdump. Try it with a patch that doesn't use python. .hc On Jun 27, 2008, at 6:01 PM, bbarros wrote: Hallo Hans, pd-extended crashes just after launching in my machine. I'm using OS 10.5.3 in a MacBook Pro. System Configuration: Model: MacBookPro2,2, BootROM MBP22.00A5.B07, 2 processors, Intel Core 2 Duo, 2.33 GHz, 2 GB Graphics: kHW_ATIr520Item, ATY,RadeonX1600, spdisplays_pcie_device, 256 MB Memory Module: BANK 0/DIMM0, 1 GB, DDR2 SDRAM, 667 MHz Memory Module: BANK 1/DIMM1, 1 GB, DDR2 SDRAM, 667 MHz AirPort: spairport_wireless_card_type_airport_extreme, 1.3.5 Bluetooth: Version 2.1.0f17, 2 service, 1 devices, 1 incoming serial ports Network Service: AirPort, AirPort, en1 Serial ATA Device: FUJITSU MHW2120BH, 111.79 GB Parallel ATA Device: MATSHITADVD-R UJ-857D, 789.4 MB USB Device: Built-in iSight, Micron, high_speed, 500 mA USB Device: Apple Internal Keyboard / Trackpad, Apple Computer, full_speed, 500 mA USB Device: General Purpose USB Hub, full_speed, 500 mA USB Device: PCR-1, EDIROL, full_speed, 200 mA USB Device: PCR-1, EDIROL, full_speed, 200 mA USB Device: IR Receiver, Apple Computer, Inc., full_speed, 500 mA USB Device: Bluetooth USB Host Controller, Apple, Inc., full_speed, 500 mA Log: Process: pd [2757] Path: /Applications/Pd-extended.app/Contents/Resources/Scripts/../bin/pd Identifier: pd Version: ??? (???) Code Type: X86 (Native) Parent Process: Pd-extended [2752] Date/Time: 2008-06-27 12:56:20.056 -0300 OS Version: Mac OS X 10.5.3 (9D34) Report Version: 6 Exception Type: EXC_BAD_ACCESS (SIGBUS) Exception Codes: KERN_PROTECTION_FAILURE at 0x Crashed Thread: 7 Thread 0: 0 libSystem.B.dylib 0x0884 __memcpy + 228 1 libSystem.B.dylib 0x942665a2 szone_realloc + 2388 2 libSystem.B.dylib 0x94265c0e malloc_zone_realloc + 88 3 libSystem.B.dylib 0x94265b81 realloc + 209 4 pd 0x000440f7 sys_trytogetmoreguibuf + 34 (s_inter.c:614) 5 pd 0x00044251 sys_vgui + 182 (s_inter.c:661) 6 py.pd_darwin 0x013f6fdf flext_base_multi::SetAttrib(_symbol const*, flext_base_multi::AttrItem*, flext_multi::AtomList const) + 159 7 py.pd_darwin 0x013e8eb2 pyobj::__setup__(flext_class*) + 18 8 py.pd_darwin 0x013f549e flext_obj_multi::obj_add(bool, bool, bool, bool, char const*, char const*, void (*)(flext_class*), flext_obj_multi* (*)(int, _atom*), void (*)(flext_hdr*), int, ...) + 722 9 py.pd_darwin 0x013e7b21 pyobj_setup() + 115 10 py.pd_darwin 0x013f00e8 pybase::lib_setup() + 856 11 py.pd_darwin 0x013f4fd0 flext_obj_multi::lib_init(char const*, void (*)()) + 56 12 py.pd_darwin 0x013f016b py_setup + 37 13 pd 0x0004717f sys_do_load_lib + 615 (s_loader.c:204) 14 pd 0x00047486 sys_load_lib + 43 (s_loader.c:241) 15 pd 0x00041cc7 glob_initfromgui + 355 (s_main.c:228) 16 pd 0x00039f11 pd_typedmess + 737 (m_class.c:703) 17 pd 0x0003d7df binbuf_eval + 1043 (m_binbuf.c:677) 18 pd 0x000448ca socketreceiver_read + 1016 (s_inter.c:553) 19 pd 0x00043983 sys_domicrosleep + 367 (s_inter.c:193) 20 pd 0x000439e8 sys_microsleep + 19 (s_inter.c:216) 21 pd 0x0004185e m_scheduler + 658 (m_sched.c:492) 22 pd 0x00043770 sys_main + 1524 (s_main.c:320) 23 pd 0x21ae _start + 216 24 pd 0x20d5 start + 41 Thread 1: 0 libSystem.B.dylib 0x9425b4ee semaphore_wait_signal_trap + 10 1 libSystem.B.dylib 0x9428d866 _pthread_cond_wait + 1267 2 libSystem.B.dylib 0x942d3371 pthread_cond_wait + 48 3 com.grame.JackRouter 0x01103119 CAGuard::Wait() + 73 4 com.grame.JackRouter 0x0110eaf9 HP_Device::ExecuteAllCommands() + 57 5 com.grame.JackRouter 0x0110768e CommandThread::ThreadEntry(CommandThread*) + 30 6 com.grame.JackRouter 0x011039f1 CAPThread::Entry(CAPThread*) + 129 7 libSystem.B.dylib 0x9428c6f5 _pthread_start + 321 8 libSystem.B.dylib 0x9428c5b2 thread_start + 34 Thread 2: 0 libSystem.B.dylib
Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd-0.40.3-extended-rc2 released
On Jun 23, 2008, at 5:58 AM, Max Neupert wrote: Hans, thank you for doing that. I have some remarks though: Am 2008-06-23 um 06:58 schrieb Hans-Christoph Steiner: - default locations for user-installed externals, helpfiles, etc. Mac OS X: /Library/Pd and ~/Library/Pd i still think it should rather be /Library/Application Support/Pd Yeah, it should, but Pd doesn't always handle spaces in directories so well. I think we could make this switch for the next release, then we'll have time to find all the problems with spaces. Could you file a bug report? - lots of standard key bindings added: Enter/Return for OK Escape for Cancel Ctrl/Cmd-W closes all windows error when doing that on the text editor. ok on Mac OS X, Cmd-` cycles thru open windows this is quite useless on a german keyboard, since cycling through windows is cmd- and cmd- for the ` i have to press shift as well and its in the opposite corner of the keyboard. no other program uses it. Hmm ok, cmd- and cmd- don't work on a US keyboard, at least in TextEdit.app. Could you file a bug report on that? .hc If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd-0.40.3-extended-rc2 released
I see now. My guess is that this issue is related to the very large search path caused by having the hexloader and all of the libraries loaded by default. Could you guys try a couple things: - take hexloader out of the start up libs and try opening - take all of the libs out of the startup prefs and try opening The GOP issue seems different that Luke's issue. Could submit a bug report and post a patch that has this behavior? .hc On Jun 23, 2008, at 2:40 AM, Matthew Logan wrote: So it's not just XP then. It makes it hard to even build a patch, because I'm afraid of using GOP. Start-up of the program itself is no issue. The slow-down occurs whenever I open my main working patch. It took about 30-45 sec before (last released pd-extended package). Now it takes 5 1/2 minutes ( I timed it just now). Everytime I edit a section of it, things take a long time to regen as well. I have some GOPs nested in other GOPs, so I was wondering if it had to do with that. I can't think of anything in particular that might cause it, but his is what I'm experiencing. On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 4:40 PM, Luke Iannini [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hurrah, great work Hans... Pd is starting to feel quite native on the Mac. The app-generator is fantastic. I've got quite a few patches designed for just such a thing. - the GUI runs slower on some older Macs It's definitely not just older Macs! I've got a two month old Mac Pro 2.8x8 that takes 15 minutes to load one of my more complex patches (as I mentioned in another thread). I never timed it before this development, but it was probably in the 1-2 minute range (which I thought was long at the time :)). I'll start going through the autobuilds to see if I can narrow down when the loading issue began. Other than that, I'm very happy. Thanks for all your hard work as always. Cheers Luke On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 1:58 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For this release, there has been a lot of work in making the GUI and user experience much more fluid and easy. There is a new visual look that was designed to make patches more readable. Additionally, lots of things have been tweaked to make Pd behave more like a normal app. There has already been a lot of testing on these builds, so it is getting quite close to a final version. (Debian/PowerPC is missing now but will come later) http://at.or.at/hans/pd/installers.html Here is a partial changelog: - next visual appearance designed for readability - default locations for user-installed externals, helpfiles, etc. GNU/Linux: /usr/local/lib/pd-externals and ~/pd-externals Mac OS X: /Library/Pd and ~/Library/Pd Windows: %ProgramFiles%/Common Files/Pd and %UserProfile%/ Application Data/Pd - lots of standard key bindings added: Enter/Return for OK Escape for Cancel Ctrl/Cmd-W closes all windows on Mac OS X, Cmd-` cycles thru open windows on Mac OS X, Cmd-m minimizes windows Ctrl/Cmd-R raises/lowers Pd window Ctrl/Cmd-Shift-R shrinks/grows Pd window Ctrl/Cmd-Shift-L clears Pd window's text console Ctrl/Cmd-B opens the Help Browser - you can now use ~ in all paths to mean home folder, and on Windows you can use environment variables, lie %UserProfile% in paths - Cut/Copy/Paste now work directly into object and message boxes on all platforms - fixed Cut/Copy/Paste for the Pd window's console - [declare] and [import] now sorted out for loading (but much work needs to be done before there namespace support is complete) - File - Save As defaults to the Home folder (~/) on Mac OSX - new patches default to the folder last saved in - included pgp_opengl aka 3dp on GNU/Linux and Mac OS X - 'hardware' and 'deprecated' removed from libraries loaded by default - On Debian/Ubuntu, the packages now install into /usr rather than / usr/local - On Mac OS X, you can now build standalone applications from the File menu. KNOWN BUGS - check http://puredata.info/dev/bugtracker before reporting bugs - Escape, Enter, and Ctrl/Cmd-W don't close the Path and Startup preferences - pdp_opengl is alpha and will definitely crash Pd - loading pdp_opengl will crash Pd if X11 is not open before trying to load it - the GUI runs slower on some older Macs -- -- I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. - General Smedley Butler ___ Pd-announce mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-announce ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list
[PD] [PD-announce] Pd-0.40.3-extended-rc2 released
For this release, there has been a lot of work in making the GUI and user experience much more fluid and easy. There is a new visual look that was designed to make patches more readable. Additionally, lots of things have been tweaked to make Pd behave more like a normal app. There has already been a lot of testing on these builds, so it is getting quite close to a final version. (Debian/PowerPC is missing now but will come later) http://at.or.at/hans/pd/installers.html Here is a partial changelog: - next visual appearance designed for readability - default locations for user-installed externals, helpfiles, etc. GNU/Linux: /usr/local/lib/pd-externals and ~/pd-externals Mac OS X: /Library/Pd and ~/Library/Pd Windows: %ProgramFiles%/Common Files/Pd and %UserProfile%/ Application Data/Pd - lots of standard key bindings added: Enter/Return for OK Escape for Cancel Ctrl/Cmd-W closes all windows on Mac OS X, Cmd-` cycles thru open windows on Mac OS X, Cmd-m minimizes windows Ctrl/Cmd-R raises/lowers Pd window Ctrl/Cmd-Shift-R shrinks/grows Pd window Ctrl/Cmd-Shift-L clears Pd window's text console Ctrl/Cmd-B opens the Help Browser - you can now use ~ in all paths to mean home folder, and on Windows you can use environment variables, lie %UserProfile% in paths - Cut/Copy/Paste now work directly into object and message boxes on all platforms - fixed Cut/Copy/Paste for the Pd window's console - [declare] and [import] now sorted out for loading (but much work needs to be done before there namespace support is complete) - File - Save As defaults to the Home folder (~/) on Mac OSX - new patches default to the folder last saved in - included pgp_opengl aka 3dp on GNU/Linux and Mac OS X - 'hardware' and 'deprecated' removed from libraries loaded by default - On Debian/Ubuntu, the packages now install into /usr rather than / usr/local - On Mac OS X, you can now build standalone applications from the File menu. KNOWN BUGS - check http://puredata.info/dev/bugtracker before reporting bugs - Escape, Enter, and Ctrl/Cmd-W don't close the Path and Startup preferences - pdp_opengl is alpha and will definitely crash Pd - loading pdp_opengl will crash Pd if X11 is not open before trying to load it - the GUI runs slower on some older Macs I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. - General Smedley Butler ___ Pd-announce mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-announce ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd-0.40.3-extended-rc2 released
Hurrah, great work Hans... Pd is starting to feel quite native on the Mac. The app-generator is fantastic. I've got quite a few patches designed for just such a thing. - the GUI runs slower on some older Macs It's definitely not just older Macs! I've got a two month old Mac Pro 2.8x8 that takes 15 minutes to load one of my more complex patches (as I mentioned in another thread). I never timed it before this development, but it was probably in the 1-2 minute range (which I thought was long at the time :)). I'll start going through the autobuilds to see if I can narrow down when the loading issue began. Other than that, I'm very happy. Thanks for all your hard work as always. Cheers Luke On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 1:58 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For this release, there has been a lot of work in making the GUI and user experience much more fluid and easy. There is a new visual look that was designed to make patches more readable. Additionally, lots of things have been tweaked to make Pd behave more like a normal app. There has already been a lot of testing on these builds, so it is getting quite close to a final version. (Debian/PowerPC is missing now but will come later) http://at.or.at/hans/pd/installers.html Here is a partial changelog: - next visual appearance designed for readability - default locations for user-installed externals, helpfiles, etc. GNU/Linux: /usr/local/lib/pd-externals and ~/pd-externals Mac OS X: /Library/Pd and ~/Library/Pd Windows: %ProgramFiles%/Common Files/Pd and %UserProfile%/ Application Data/Pd - lots of standard key bindings added: Enter/Return for OK Escape for Cancel Ctrl/Cmd-W closes all windows on Mac OS X, Cmd-` cycles thru open windows on Mac OS X, Cmd-m minimizes windows Ctrl/Cmd-R raises/lowers Pd window Ctrl/Cmd-Shift-R shrinks/grows Pd window Ctrl/Cmd-Shift-L clears Pd window's text console Ctrl/Cmd-B opens the Help Browser - you can now use ~ in all paths to mean home folder, and on Windows you can use environment variables, lie %UserProfile% in paths - Cut/Copy/Paste now work directly into object and message boxes on all platforms - fixed Cut/Copy/Paste for the Pd window's console - [declare] and [import] now sorted out for loading (but much work needs to be done before there namespace support is complete) - File - Save As defaults to the Home folder (~/) on Mac OSX - new patches default to the folder last saved in - included pgp_opengl aka 3dp on GNU/Linux and Mac OS X - 'hardware' and 'deprecated' removed from libraries loaded by default - On Debian/Ubuntu, the packages now install into /usr rather than / usr/local - On Mac OS X, you can now build standalone applications from the File menu. KNOWN BUGS - check http://puredata.info/dev/bugtracker before reporting bugs - Escape, Enter, and Ctrl/Cmd-W don't close the Path and Startup preferences - pdp_opengl is alpha and will definitely crash Pd - loading pdp_opengl will crash Pd if X11 is not open before trying to load it - the GUI runs slower on some older Macs I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. - General Smedley Butler ___ Pd-announce mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-announce ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd-0.40.3-extended-rc2 released
So it's not just XP then. It makes it hard to even build a patch, because I'm afraid of using GOP. Start-up of the program itself is no issue. The slow-down occurs whenever I open my main working patch. It took about 30-45 sec before (last released pd-extended package). Now it takes 5 1/2 minutes ( I timed it just now). Everytime I edit a section of it, things take a long time to regen as well. I have some GOPs nested in other GOPs, so I was wondering if it had to do with that. I can't think of anything in particular that might cause it, but his is what I'm experiencing. On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 4:40 PM, Luke Iannini [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hurrah, great work Hans... Pd is starting to feel quite native on the Mac. The app-generator is fantastic. I've got quite a few patches designed for just such a thing. - the GUI runs slower on some older Macs It's definitely not just older Macs! I've got a two month old Mac Pro 2.8x8 that takes 15 minutes to load one of my more complex patches (as I mentioned in another thread). I never timed it before this development, but it was probably in the 1-2 minute range (which I thought was long at the time :)). I'll start going through the autobuilds to see if I can narrow down when the loading issue began. Other than that, I'm very happy. Thanks for all your hard work as always. Cheers Luke On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 1:58 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For this release, there has been a lot of work in making the GUI and user experience much more fluid and easy. There is a new visual look that was designed to make patches more readable. Additionally, lots of things have been tweaked to make Pd behave more like a normal app. There has already been a lot of testing on these builds, so it is getting quite close to a final version. (Debian/PowerPC is missing now but will come later) http://at.or.at/hans/pd/installers.html Here is a partial changelog: - next visual appearance designed for readability - default locations for user-installed externals, helpfiles, etc. GNU/Linux: /usr/local/lib/pd-externals and ~/pd-externals Mac OS X: /Library/Pd and ~/Library/Pd Windows: %ProgramFiles%/Common Files/Pd and %UserProfile%/ Application Data/Pd - lots of standard key bindings added: Enter/Return for OK Escape for Cancel Ctrl/Cmd-W closes all windows on Mac OS X, Cmd-` cycles thru open windows on Mac OS X, Cmd-m minimizes windows Ctrl/Cmd-R raises/lowers Pd window Ctrl/Cmd-Shift-R shrinks/grows Pd window Ctrl/Cmd-Shift-L clears Pd window's text console Ctrl/Cmd-B opens the Help Browser - you can now use ~ in all paths to mean home folder, and on Windows you can use environment variables, lie %UserProfile% in paths - Cut/Copy/Paste now work directly into object and message boxes on all platforms - fixed Cut/Copy/Paste for the Pd window's console - [declare] and [import] now sorted out for loading (but much work needs to be done before there namespace support is complete) - File - Save As defaults to the Home folder (~/) on Mac OSX - new patches default to the folder last saved in - included pgp_opengl aka 3dp on GNU/Linux and Mac OS X - 'hardware' and 'deprecated' removed from libraries loaded by default - On Debian/Ubuntu, the packages now install into /usr rather than / usr/local - On Mac OS X, you can now build standalone applications from the File menu. KNOWN BUGS - check http://puredata.info/dev/bugtracker before reporting bugs - Escape, Enter, and Ctrl/Cmd-W don't close the Path and Startup preferences - pdp_opengl is alpha and will definitely crash Pd - loading pdp_opengl will crash Pd if X11 is not open before trying to load it - the GUI runs slower on some older Macs I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. - General Smedley Butler ___ Pd-announce mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-announce ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd-0.40.3-extended-rc2 released
Hans, thank you for doing that. I have some remarks though: Am 2008-06-23 um 06:58 schrieb Hans-Christoph Steiner: - default locations for user-installed externals, helpfiles, etc. Mac OS X: /Library/Pd and ~/Library/Pd i still think it should rather be /Library/Application Support/Pd - lots of standard key bindings added: Enter/Return for OK Escape for Cancel Ctrl/Cmd-W closes all windows error when doing that on the text editor. on Mac OS X, Cmd-` cycles thru open windows this is quite useless on a german keyboard, since cycling through windows is cmd- and cmd- for the ` i have to press shift as well and its in the opposite corner of the keyboard. no other program uses it. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
