Re: [PD] Pd META: Author/Help Patch Authors
On Fri, 28 Aug 2009, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: (BTW, it's quite easy to parse commas in Pd.) It's not like anyone has an actual choice in having commas parsed... If I write a comment about some hardware hack like «you can get such a kit for 7,50$ at Omer DeSerres» then Pd thinks «you must mean: 7, 50$» which looks more than weird with that space. This is just my locale, but the same pattern would also happen in Europe. _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ... | Mathieu Bouchard, Montréal, Québec. téléphone: +1.514.383.3801___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Pd META: Author/Help Patch Authors
On Sep 1, 2009, at 5:37 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: --- On Tue, 9/1/09, Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at wrote: From: Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at Subject: Re: [PD] Pd META: Author/Help Patch Authors To: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com Cc: pd-list@iem.at Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 9:21 PM On Sep 1, 2009, at 2:21 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: --- On Tue, 9/1/09, Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at wrote: From: Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at Subject: Re: [PD] Pd META: Author/Help Patch Authors To: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com Cc: pd-list@iem.at Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 7:15 PM On Sep 1, 2009, at 1:08 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: --- On Tue, 9/1/09, Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [PD] Pd META: Author/Help Patch Authors To: Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at Cc: pd-list@iem.at Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 5:47 PM --- On Tue, 9/1/09, Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at wrote: From: Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at Subject: Re: [PD] Pd META: Author/Help Patch Authors To: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com Cc: pd-list@iem.at Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 4:05 PM On Sep 1, 2009, at 12:41 AM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: --- On Tue, 9/1/09, Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at wrote: From: Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at Subject: Re: [PD] Pd META: Author/Help Patch Authors To: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com Cc: pd-list@iem.at Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 5:00 AM It is Pd, so I think we should at least make an effort to make things easy to parse in Pd. I tried your parser using data that is probably closer to what we might use, and it didn't work at all. If someone can get a Pd parser working that can handle the commas well, then I would be OK using commas in the meta data format. Here's my data: tags - pure data, frequency modulation, synthesis Hi Hans, I wouldn't expect my example to work as a general solution. If you want a general solution, I'd be happy to take a stab at it, but you haven't said what you want Pd to do with the data example you've provided above. Ah, sorry, I thought you'd followed the object_db.tcl plugin discussion and the [pd META] discussion with Frank. Basically, the object_db.tcl plugin builds a multilevel menu for finding objects based on tags. I'm am sure people will think of other uses for the tags. Frank suggested using comma separated tags in his [pd REFERENCE] format, the PDDP group came to the conclusion that the meta data should be easily parsable by Pd, and I still think that's a good idea. So the idea is to have every help patch have a [pd META] subpatch, and in it, have a comment with tags. .hc Oh, ok. I'll have a look at that discussion. -Jonathan Yes, I have seen this discussion. But I'm still confused: are commas a problem in tcl? If not, I still don't understand the problem (see attached). file.pdparser.pd Tcl's not the problem, its Pd's parser. It interprets commas as a separator between messages. Since there isn't an escape mechanism, it means handling commas, semi-colons, etc. is difficult unless you are wanting the behavior of Pd's parser. If we use commas as the delimiter for individual tags, then just removing the commas means you don't know if you have multi-word tags or just single word tags. So if you have: tags - frequency modulation, synth and its parsed as: tags frequency modulation synth then key information is lost. Ok. (see attached) Works for me! Frank will be happy. So let's use comma-separated tags and see what happens... So what kinds of tasks do you want Pd to do with these META comments? If you already have specific ideas in mind (or have written about them already some place), let me know and I'll try to put together some patches. I think they'll be very useful for searching for an object that does what you want, or organizing the help patches into some kind of navigatable hierarchy. Perhaps people will think of other uses as well. I'm also getting close to the finishing refactoring the help patches in the reference folder. What should I do with them when I'm finished? Attach a zip file to the list? This sounds great! To start with, try posting some to the list, or putting the zip on puredata.info and post a link. .hc -Jonathan .hc -Jonathan .hc Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute. - from Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs file.pdparser.pd Using ReBirth is like trying to play an 808 with a long stick.- David Zicarelli
Re: [PD] Pd META: Author/Help Patch Authors
--- On Wed, 9/2/09, Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca wrote: From: Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca Subject: Re: [PD] Pd META: Author/Help Patch Authors To: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com Cc: pd-list@iem.at Date: Wednesday, September 2, 2009, 5:05 PM On Fri, 28 Aug 2009, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: (BTW, it's quite easy to parse commas in Pd.) It's not like anyone has an actual choice in having commas parsed... If I write a comment about some hardware hack like «you can get such a kit for 7,50$ at Omer DeSerres» then Pd thinks «you must mean: 7, 50$» which looks more than weird with that space. This is just my locale, but the same pattern would also happen in Europe. That's not half as bad as writing sentences that end with a number followed by a period, and the period being forced by the MCP Cone to play Discs Of Tron, where it slips into the abyss and gets eliminated -Jonathan ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Pd META: Author/Help Patch Authors
Hallo, Hans-Christoph Steiner hat gesagt: // Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: On Sep 1, 2009, at 5:37 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: --- On Tue, 9/1/09, Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at wrote: From: Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at Subject: Re: [PD] Pd META: Author/Help Patch Authors To: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com Cc: pd-list@iem.at Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 9:21 PM On Sep 1, 2009, at 2:21 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: --- On Tue, 9/1/09, Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at wrote: From: Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at Subject: Re: [PD] Pd META: Author/Help Patch Authors To: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com Cc: pd-list@iem.at Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 7:15 PM On Sep 1, 2009, at 1:08 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: --- On Tue, 9/1/09, Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [PD] Pd META: Author/Help Patch Authors To: Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at Cc: pd-list@iem.at Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 5:47 PM --- On Tue, 9/1/09, Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at wrote: From: Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at Subject: Re: [PD] Pd META: Author/Help Patch Authors To: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com Cc: pd-list@iem.at Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 4:05 PM On Sep 1, 2009, at 12:41 AM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: --- On Tue, 9/1/09, Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at wrote: From: Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at Subject: Re: [PD] Pd META: Author/Help Patch Authors To: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com Cc: pd-list@iem.at Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 5:00 AM Was it really necessary to quote all of the text above? :) Ciao -- Frank ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Pd META: Author/Help Patch Authors
On Wed, 2 Sep 2009, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: From: Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca If I write a comment about some hardware hack like «you can get such a kit for 7,50$ at Omer DeSerres» then Pd thinks «you must mean: 7, 50$» which looks more than weird That's not half as bad as writing sentences that end with a number followed by a period, and the period being forced by the MCP Cone to play Discs Of Tron, where it slips into the abyss and gets eliminated Worst case ever is documented in this post: http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2006-09/042419.html _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ... | Mathieu Bouchard, Montréal, Québec. téléphone: +1.514.383.3801___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Pd META: Author/Help Patch Authors
On Mon, 31 Aug 2009, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: It is Pd, so I think we should at least make an effort to make things easy to parse in Pd. I tried your parser using data that is probably closer to what we might use, and it didn't work at all. If someone can get a Pd parser working that can handle the commas well, then I would be OK using commas in the meta data format. I think that you will eventually find a context in which you can't use commas and in which you will want to put the tags, and then you will regret not having just used underscore or dash or capitals as separator. Here's my data: tags - pure data, frequency modulation, synthesis here are six fairly common ways to join multiple words: pure-data frequency-modulation synthesis pure_data frequency_modulation synthesis pure.data frequency.modulation synthesis puredata frequencymodulation synthesis pureData frequencyModulation synthesis PureData FrequencyModulation Synthesis _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ... | Mathieu Bouchard, Montréal, Québec. téléphone: +1.514.383.3801___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Pd META: Author/Help Patch Authors
On Tue, 1 Sep 2009, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: If we use commas as the delimiter for individual tags, then just removing the commas means you don't know if you have multi-word tags or just single word tags. So if you have: tags - frequency modulation, synth and its parsed as: tags frequency modulation synth then key information is lost. It's not just that... e.g. suppose you made an abstraction for looking up all patches that contain certain keywords... any number of them at once. How do you send a message to look for them? you'd need to put a comma _inside_ a message... (this is an example of what I was alluding to in my previous mail) _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ... | Mathieu Bouchard, Montréal, Québec. téléphone: +1.514.383.3801___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Pd META: Author/Help Patch Authors
Is there any place where it's explained what are the meta patches, and what should be in each patch? I never understood the meaning of them, and therefore, have never made any. On Sep 1, 2009, at 5:37 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: --- On Tue, 9/1/09, Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at wrote: From: Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at Subject: Re: [PD] Pd META: Author/Help Patch Authors To: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com Cc: pd-list@iem.at Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 9:21 PM On Sep 1, 2009, at 2:21 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: --- On Tue, 9/1/09, Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at wrote: From: Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at Subject: Re: [PD] Pd META: Author/Help Patch Authors To: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com Cc: pd-list@iem.at Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 7:15 PM On Sep 1, 2009, at 1:08 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Pd META: Author/Help Patch Authors
--- On Wed, 9/2/09, Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca wrote: From: Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca Subject: Re: [PD] Pd META: Author/Help Patch Authors To: Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at Cc: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com, pd-list@iem.at Date: Wednesday, September 2, 2009, 7:55 PM On Tue, 1 Sep 2009, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: If we use commas as the delimiter for individual tags, then just removing the commas means you don't know if you have multi-word tags or just single word tags. So if you have: tags - frequency modulation, synth and its parsed as: tags frequency modulation synth then key information is lost. It's not just that... e.g. suppose you made an abstraction for looking up all patches that contain certain keywords... any number of them at once. How do you send a message to look for them? you'd need to put a comma _inside_ a message... (this is an example of what I was alluding to in my previous mail) It's possible (see quick-and-dirty-attachment, although the first typed character doesn't show up in the gop window for some reason). But if searching is to be done from within Pd, I guess my question is how well this would work, regardless of commas. If a tag is frequency modulation, it won't be found if someone types in Frequency Modulation, or frequency-modulation, or fm. Same for sinusoid, sine, sin, sinewave, etc. Or is there already a regular expression object? -Jonathan #N canvas 3 12 1004 680 12; #X obj 549 14 key; #X floatatom 575 62 5 0 0 0 - - -; #X obj 778 261 makefilename %c; #X msg 778 203 set %c; #X msg 913 261 set \$1%c; #X obj 549 329 symbol; #X obj 595 390 t a; #X obj 549 361 list prepend; #X obj 611 176 44; #X obj 611 203 makefilename %c; #X obj 549 86 route 32 44 10; #X obj 172 325 list; #X obj 549 415 list prepend set; #X obj 549 443 list trim; #X msg 804 443 add2 \$1; #X obj 549 40 spigot; #X obj 634 22 tgl 15 0 empty empty empty 17 7 0 10 -262144 -1 -1 0 1; #X obj 778 292 t b a b; #X obj 549 551 list trim; #N canvas 0 0 450 300 testwin 0; #X coords 0 -1 1 1 400 50 1; #X restore 64 127 pd testwin; #X obj 549 576 t a b; #X obj 586 630 s pd-testwin; #X obj 549 296 spigot 1; #X obj 610 242 0; #X msg 610 268 1; #X obj 585 146 t b b b; #X obj 172 350 print; #X msg 658 443 bang \, set; #X obj 621 116 t b b; #X text 44 323 send on enter; #X msg 585 605 donecanvasdialog -1 1 1 0 -1 1 1 400 50 0 0 \, clear ; #X obj 549 526 prepend text 15 20; #X text 653 18 1 click to test; #X text 127 89 2 type some keywords \, commas \, etc.; #X text 138 107 reset on enter; #X msg 549 481; #X connect 0 0 15 0; #X connect 2 0 4 0; #X connect 2 0 5 1; #X connect 2 0 17 0; #X connect 3 0 2 0; #X connect 4 0 2 0; #X connect 5 0 7 0; #X connect 6 0 7 1; #X connect 7 0 6 0; #X connect 7 0 12 0; #X connect 8 0 9 0; #X connect 9 0 7 0; #X connect 10 0 22 0; #X connect 10 1 25 0; #X connect 10 2 28 0; #X connect 10 3 2 0; #X connect 10 3 24 0; #X connect 11 0 26 0; #X connect 12 0 13 0; #X connect 13 0 35 0; #X connect 14 0 35 0; #X connect 15 0 10 0; #X connect 15 0 1 0; #X connect 16 0 15 1; #X connect 17 0 35 0; #X connect 17 1 14 0; #X connect 17 2 7 0; #X connect 18 0 20 0; #X connect 20 0 21 0; #X connect 20 1 30 0; #X connect 22 0 3 0; #X connect 22 0 5 0; #X connect 23 0 22 1; #X connect 24 0 22 1; #X connect 25 0 35 0; #X connect 25 0 23 0; #X connect 25 1 8 0; #X connect 25 2 3 0; #X connect 25 2 5 0; #X connect 27 0 35 0; #X connect 28 0 11 0; #X connect 28 1 27 0; #X connect 28 1 3 0; #X connect 28 1 7 1; #X connect 30 0 21 0; #X connect 31 0 18 0; #X connect 35 0 11 1; #X connect 35 0 31 0; ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Pd META: Author/Help Patch Authors
On Sep 1, 2009, at 12:41 AM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: --- On Tue, 9/1/09, Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at wrote: From: Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at Subject: Re: [PD] Pd META: Author/Help Patch Authors To: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com Cc: pd-list@iem.at Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 5:00 AM It is Pd, so I think we should at least make an effort to make things easy to parse in Pd. I tried your parser using data that is probably closer to what we might use, and it didn't work at all. If someone can get a Pd parser working that can handle the commas well, then I would be OK using commas in the meta data format. Here's my data: tags - pure data, frequency modulation, synthesis Hi Hans, I wouldn't expect my example to work as a general solution. If you want a general solution, I'd be happy to take a stab at it, but you haven't said what you want Pd to do with the data example you've provided above. Ah, sorry, I thought you'd followed the object_db.tcl plugin discussion and the [pd META] discussion with Frank. Basically, the object_db.tcl plugin builds a multilevel menu for finding objects based on tags. I'm am sure people will think of other uses for the tags. Frank suggested using comma separated tags in his [pd REFERENCE] format, the PDDP group came to the conclusion that the meta data should be easily parsable by Pd, and I still think that's a good idea. So the idea is to have every help patch have a [pd META] subpatch, and in it, have a comment with tags. .hc ¡El pueblo unido jamás será vencido! ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Pd META: Author/Help Patch Authors
Hallo, Hans-Christoph Steiner hat gesagt: // Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: On Sep 1, 2009, at 12:41 AM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: Ah, sorry, I thought you'd followed the object_db.tcl plugin discussion and the [pd META] discussion with Frank. Basically, the object_db.tcl plugin builds a multilevel menu for finding objects based on tags. I'm am sure people will think of other uses for the tags. Frank suggested using comma separated tags in his [pd REFERENCE] format, the PDDP group came to the conclusion that the meta data should be easily parsable by Pd, and I still think that's a good idea. Actually you have already convinced me to use a - in the tags field. But as I started with commas, I will continue with that until all help files are converted, then run a perl script to replace every comma in the tags field. Ciao -- Frank ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Pd META: Author/Help Patch Authors
--- On Tue, 9/1/09, Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at wrote: From: Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at Subject: Re: [PD] Pd META: Author/Help Patch Authors To: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com Cc: pd-list@iem.at Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 4:05 PM On Sep 1, 2009, at 12:41 AM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: --- On Tue, 9/1/09, Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at wrote: From: Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at Subject: Re: [PD] Pd META: Author/Help Patch Authors To: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com Cc: pd-list@iem.at Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 5:00 AM It is Pd, so I think we should at least make an effort to make things easy to parse in Pd. I tried your parser using data that is probably closer to what we might use, and it didn't work at all. If someone can get a Pd parser working that can handle the commas well, then I would be OK using commas in the meta data format. Here's my data: tags - pure data, frequency modulation, synthesis Hi Hans, I wouldn't expect my example to work as a general solution. If you want a general solution, I'd be happy to take a stab at it, but you haven't said what you want Pd to do with the data example you've provided above. Ah, sorry, I thought you'd followed the object_db.tcl plugin discussion and the [pd META] discussion with Frank. Basically, the object_db.tcl plugin builds a multilevel menu for finding objects based on tags. I'm am sure people will think of other uses for the tags. Frank suggested using comma separated tags in his [pd REFERENCE] format, the PDDP group came to the conclusion that the meta data should be easily parsable by Pd, and I still think that's a good idea. So the idea is to have every help patch have a [pd META] subpatch, and in it, have a comment with tags. .hc Oh, ok. I'll have a look at that discussion. -Jonathan ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Pd META: Author/Help Patch Authors
On Sep 1, 2009, at 1:08 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: --- On Tue, 9/1/09, Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [PD] Pd META: Author/Help Patch Authors To: Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at Cc: pd-list@iem.at Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 5:47 PM --- On Tue, 9/1/09, Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at wrote: From: Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at Subject: Re: [PD] Pd META: Author/Help Patch Authors To: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com Cc: pd-list@iem.at Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 4:05 PM On Sep 1, 2009, at 12:41 AM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: --- On Tue, 9/1/09, Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at wrote: From: Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at Subject: Re: [PD] Pd META: Author/Help Patch Authors To: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com Cc: pd-list@iem.at Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 5:00 AM It is Pd, so I think we should at least make an effort to make things easy to parse in Pd. I tried your parser using data that is probably closer to what we might use, and it didn't work at all. If someone can get a Pd parser working that can handle the commas well, then I would be OK using commas in the meta data format. Here's my data: tags - pure data, frequency modulation, synthesis Hi Hans, I wouldn't expect my example to work as a general solution. If you want a general solution, I'd be happy to take a stab at it, but you haven't said what you want Pd to do with the data example you've provided above. Ah, sorry, I thought you'd followed the object_db.tcl plugin discussion and the [pd META] discussion with Frank. Basically, the object_db.tcl plugin builds a multilevel menu for finding objects based on tags. I'm am sure people will think of other uses for the tags. Frank suggested using comma separated tags in his [pd REFERENCE] format, the PDDP group came to the conclusion that the meta data should be easily parsable by Pd, and I still think that's a good idea. So the idea is to have every help patch have a [pd META] subpatch, and in it, have a comment with tags. .hc Oh, ok. I'll have a look at that discussion. -Jonathan Yes, I have seen this discussion. But I'm still confused: are commas a problem in tcl? If not, I still don't understand the problem (see attached). file.pdparser.pd Tcl's not the problem, its Pd's parser. It interprets commas as a separator between messages. Since there isn't an escape mechanism, it means handling commas, semi-colons, etc. is difficult unless you are wanting the behavior of Pd's parser. If we use commas as the delimiter for individual tags, then just removing the commas means you don't know if you have multi-word tags or just single word tags. So if you have: tags - frequency modulation, synth and its parsed as: tags frequency modulation synth then key information is lost. .hc Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute. - from Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Pd META: Author/Help Patch Authors
--- On Tue, 9/1/09, Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at wrote: From: Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at Subject: Re: [PD] Pd META: Author/Help Patch Authors To: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com Cc: pd-list@iem.at Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 7:15 PM On Sep 1, 2009, at 1:08 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: --- On Tue, 9/1/09, Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [PD] Pd META: Author/Help Patch Authors To: Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at Cc: pd-list@iem.at Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 5:47 PM --- On Tue, 9/1/09, Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at wrote: From: Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at Subject: Re: [PD] Pd META: Author/Help Patch Authors To: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com Cc: pd-list@iem.at Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 4:05 PM On Sep 1, 2009, at 12:41 AM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: --- On Tue, 9/1/09, Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at wrote: From: Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at Subject: Re: [PD] Pd META: Author/Help Patch Authors To: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com Cc: pd-list@iem.at Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 5:00 AM It is Pd, so I think we should at least make an effort to make things easy to parse in Pd. I tried your parser using data that is probably closer to what we might use, and it didn't work at all. If someone can get a Pd parser working that can handle the commas well, then I would be OK using commas in the meta data format. Here's my data: tags - pure data, frequency modulation, synthesis Hi Hans, I wouldn't expect my example to work as a general solution. If you want a general solution, I'd be happy to take a stab at it, but you haven't said what you want Pd to do with the data example you've provided above. Ah, sorry, I thought you'd followed the object_db.tcl plugin discussion and the [pd META] discussion with Frank. Basically, the object_db.tcl plugin builds a multilevel menu for finding objects based on tags. I'm am sure people will think of other uses for the tags. Frank suggested using comma separated tags in his [pd REFERENCE] format, the PDDP group came to the conclusion that the meta data should be easily parsable by Pd, and I still think that's a good idea. So the idea is to have every help patch have a [pd META] subpatch, and in it, have a comment with tags. .hc Oh, ok. I'll have a look at that discussion. -Jonathan Yes, I have seen this discussion. But I'm still confused: are commas a problem in tcl? If not, I still don't understand the problem (see attached). file.pdparser.pd Tcl's not the problem, its Pd's parser. It interprets commas as a separator between messages. Since there isn't an escape mechanism, it means handling commas, semi-colons, etc. is difficult unless you are wanting the behavior of Pd's parser. If we use commas as the delimiter for individual tags, then just removing the commas means you don't know if you have multi-word tags or just single word tags. So if you have: tags - frequency modulation, synth and its parsed as: tags frequency modulation synth then key information is lost. Ok. (see attached) -Jonathan .hc Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute. - from Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs #N canvas 261 110 450 300 12; #X text 46 42 TAG - foo \, bar \, blah blah \, blee blow blay \, bank ; #N canvas 585 102 344 549 12; #X obj 12 35 textfile; #X msg 12 10 read file.pd \, rewind \, bang \, bang; #X obj 12 60 route #X; #X obj 12 85 route text; #X obj 12 110 list split 2; #X obj 52 278 list split 1; #X obj 124 60 file; #X text 170 60 - file to be parsed; #X obj 52 309 t b a; #X obj 67 346 list; #X obj 84 377 sel \,; #X obj 109 442 t a; #X obj 76 475 list; #X obj 84 251 print before; #X obj 52 224 t a a; #X obj 109 415 list prepend; #X obj 52 170 route TAG; #X obj 52 197 route -; #X obj 52 141 list trim; #X obj 76 505 print parsed; #X connect 0 0 2 0; #X connect 1 0 0 0; #X connect 2 0 3 0; #X connect 3 0 4 0; #X connect 4 1 18 0; #X connect 5 0 8 0; #X connect 5 1 9 1; #X connect 5 2 12 0; #X connect 5 2 15 1; #X connect 8 0 9 0; #X connect 8 1 10 0; #X connect 9 0 5 0; #X connect 10 0 15 1; #X connect 10 0 12 0; #X connect 10 1 15 0; #X connect 11 0 12 1; #X connect 11 0 15 1; #X connect 12 0 19 0; #X connect 14 0 5 0; #X connect 14 1 13 0; #X connect 15 0 11 0; #X connect 16 0 17 0; #X connect 17 0 14 0; #X connect 18 0 16 0; ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Pd META: Author/Help Patch Authors
On Sep 1, 2009, at 2:21 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: --- On Tue, 9/1/09, Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at wrote: From: Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at Subject: Re: [PD] Pd META: Author/Help Patch Authors To: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com Cc: pd-list@iem.at Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 7:15 PM On Sep 1, 2009, at 1:08 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: --- On Tue, 9/1/09, Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [PD] Pd META: Author/Help Patch Authors To: Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at Cc: pd-list@iem.at Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 5:47 PM --- On Tue, 9/1/09, Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at wrote: From: Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at Subject: Re: [PD] Pd META: Author/Help Patch Authors To: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com Cc: pd-list@iem.at Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 4:05 PM On Sep 1, 2009, at 12:41 AM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: --- On Tue, 9/1/09, Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at wrote: From: Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at Subject: Re: [PD] Pd META: Author/Help Patch Authors To: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com Cc: pd-list@iem.at Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 5:00 AM It is Pd, so I think we should at least make an effort to make things easy to parse in Pd. I tried your parser using data that is probably closer to what we might use, and it didn't work at all. If someone can get a Pd parser working that can handle the commas well, then I would be OK using commas in the meta data format. Here's my data: tags - pure data, frequency modulation, synthesis Hi Hans, I wouldn't expect my example to work as a general solution. If you want a general solution, I'd be happy to take a stab at it, but you haven't said what you want Pd to do with the data example you've provided above. Ah, sorry, I thought you'd followed the object_db.tcl plugin discussion and the [pd META] discussion with Frank. Basically, the object_db.tcl plugin builds a multilevel menu for finding objects based on tags. I'm am sure people will think of other uses for the tags. Frank suggested using comma separated tags in his [pd REFERENCE] format, the PDDP group came to the conclusion that the meta data should be easily parsable by Pd, and I still think that's a good idea. So the idea is to have every help patch have a [pd META] subpatch, and in it, have a comment with tags. .hc Oh, ok. I'll have a look at that discussion. -Jonathan Yes, I have seen this discussion. But I'm still confused: are commas a problem in tcl? If not, I still don't understand the problem (see attached). file.pdparser.pd Tcl's not the problem, its Pd's parser. It interprets commas as a separator between messages. Since there isn't an escape mechanism, it means handling commas, semi-colons, etc. is difficult unless you are wanting the behavior of Pd's parser. If we use commas as the delimiter for individual tags, then just removing the commas means you don't know if you have multi-word tags or just single word tags. So if you have: tags - frequency modulation, synth and its parsed as: tags frequency modulation synth then key information is lost. Ok. (see attached) Works for me! Frank will be happy. So let's use comma-separated tags and see what happens... .hc -Jonathan .hc Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute. - from Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs file.pdparser.pd Using ReBirth is like trying to play an 808 with a long stick.- David Zicarelli ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Pd META: Author/Help Patch Authors
--- On Tue, 9/1/09, Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at wrote: From: Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at Subject: Re: [PD] Pd META: Author/Help Patch Authors To: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com Cc: pd-list@iem.at Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 9:21 PM On Sep 1, 2009, at 2:21 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: --- On Tue, 9/1/09, Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at wrote: From: Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at Subject: Re: [PD] Pd META: Author/Help Patch Authors To: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com Cc: pd-list@iem.at Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 7:15 PM On Sep 1, 2009, at 1:08 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: --- On Tue, 9/1/09, Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [PD] Pd META: Author/Help Patch Authors To: Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at Cc: pd-list@iem.at Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 5:47 PM --- On Tue, 9/1/09, Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at wrote: From: Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at Subject: Re: [PD] Pd META: Author/Help Patch Authors To: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com Cc: pd-list@iem.at Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 4:05 PM On Sep 1, 2009, at 12:41 AM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: --- On Tue, 9/1/09, Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at wrote: From: Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at Subject: Re: [PD] Pd META: Author/Help Patch Authors To: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com Cc: pd-list@iem.at Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 5:00 AM It is Pd, so I think we should at least make an effort to make things easy to parse in Pd. I tried your parser using data that is probably closer to what we might use, and it didn't work at all. If someone can get a Pd parser working that can handle the commas well, then I would be OK using commas in the meta data format. Here's my data: tags - pure data, frequency modulation, synthesis Hi Hans, I wouldn't expect my example to work as a general solution. If you want a general solution, I'd be happy to take a stab at it, but you haven't said what you want Pd to do with the data example you've provided above. Ah, sorry, I thought you'd followed the object_db.tcl plugin discussion and the [pd META] discussion with Frank. Basically, the object_db.tcl plugin builds a multilevel menu for finding objects based on tags. I'm am sure people will think of other uses for the tags. Frank suggested using comma separated tags in his [pd REFERENCE] format, the PDDP group came to the conclusion that the meta data should be easily parsable by Pd, and I still think that's a good idea. So the idea is to have every help patch have a [pd META] subpatch, and in it, have a comment with tags. .hc Oh, ok. I'll have a look at that discussion. -Jonathan Yes, I have seen this discussion. But I'm still confused: are commas a problem in tcl? If not, I still don't understand the problem (see attached). file.pdparser.pd Tcl's not the problem, its Pd's parser. It interprets commas as a separator between messages. Since there isn't an escape mechanism, it means handling commas, semi-colons, etc. is difficult unless you are wanting the behavior of Pd's parser. If we use commas as the delimiter for individual tags, then just removing the commas means you don't know if you have multi-word tags or just single word tags. So if you have: tags - frequency modulation, synth and its parsed as: tags frequency modulation synth then key information is lost. Ok. (see attached) Works for me! Frank will be happy. So let's use comma-separated tags and see what happens... So what kinds of tasks do you want Pd to do with these META comments? If you already have specific ideas in mind (or have written about them already some place), let me know and I'll try to put together some patches. I'm also getting close to the finishing refactoring the help patches in the reference folder. What should I do with them when I'm finished? Attach a zip file to the list? -Jonathan .hc -Jonathan .hc Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute. - from Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs file.pdparser.pd Using ReBirth is like trying to play an 808 with a long stick. - David Zicarelli ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] Pd META: Author/Help Patch Authors
I'm getting close to finishing making all the help patches in the reference folder conform to the PDDP template. I need to add a keyword to pd META for the object author and the help patch authors, something like: AUTHOR Miller Puckette HELP_PATCH_AUTHOR(S) Dave Sabine, Krzysztof Czaja, Jonathan Wilkes (BTW, it's quite easy to parse commas in Pd.) -Jonathan ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Pd META: Author/Help Patch Authors
Cool, could you post an example of parsing commas in Pd? If its easy to parse the commas from a 'text' object, then that would solve the tags debate. .hc On Aug 28, 2009, at 1:10 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: I'm getting close to finishing making all the help patches in the reference folder conform to the PDDP template. I need to add a keyword to pd META for the object author and the help patch authors, something like: AUTHOR Miller Puckette HELP_PATCH_AUTHOR(S) Dave Sabine, Krzysztof Czaja, Jonathan Wilkes (BTW, it's quite easy to parse commas in Pd.) -Jonathan ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list There is no way to peace, peace is the way. -A.J. Muste ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Pd META: Author/Help Patch Authors
I think that in practice, the commas will cause problems, since Pd interprets a comma as a message separator. In my experience, at least. Do you have a working example of reading from textfile and doing something with the text with commas in it? .hc On Aug 31, 2009, at 1:40 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: [bang( | [list append foo, bar] | [$2( | [print] To parse, just use [sel,] Same for semicolon. Also works when reading from [textfile] -Jonathan --- On Mon, 8/31/09, Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at wrote: From: Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at Subject: Re: [PD] Pd META: Author/Help Patch Authors To: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com Cc: pd-list@iem.at Date: Monday, August 31, 2009, 4:16 PM Cool, could you post an example of parsing commas in Pd? If its easy to parse the commas from a 'text' object, then that would solve the tags debate. .hc On Aug 28, 2009, at 1:10 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: I'm getting close to finishing making all the help patches in the reference folder conform to the PDDP template. I need to add a keyword to pd META for the object author and the help patch authors, something like: AUTHOR Miller Puckette HELP_PATCH_AUTHOR(S) Dave Sabine, Krzysztof Czaja, Jonathan Wilkes (BTW, it's quite easy to parse commas in Pd.) -Jonathan ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list There is no way to peace, peace is the way. -A.J. Muste [W]e have invented the technology to eliminate scarcity, but we are deliberately throwing it away to benefit those who profit from scarcity.-John Gilmore ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Pd META: Author/Help Patch Authors
It is Pd, so I think we should at least make an effort to make things easy to parse in Pd. I tried your parser using data that is probably closer to what we might use, and it didn't work at all. If someone can get a Pd parser working that can handle the commas well, then I would be OK using commas in the meta data format. Here's my data: tags - pure data, frequency modulation, synthesis file.pd Description: Binary data .hc On Aug 31, 2009, at 7:55 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: Yes. But why do you want to parse pd files with pd? The only prototype I saw in the PDDP docs that use this META data was written in c (or maybe it was python, I can't remember). -Jonathan --- On Mon, 8/31/09, Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at wrote: From: Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at Subject: Re: [PD] Pd META: Author/Help Patch Authors To: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com Cc: pd-list@iem.at Date: Monday, August 31, 2009, 9:20 PM I think that in practice, the commas will cause problems, since Pd interprets a comma as a message separator. In my experience, at least. Do you have a working example of reading from textfile and doing something with the text with commas in it? .hc On Aug 31, 2009, at 1:40 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: [bang( | [list append foo, bar] | [$2( | [print] To parse, just use [sel,] Same for semicolon. Also works when reading from [textfile] -Jonathan --- On Mon, 8/31/09, Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at wrote: From: Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at Subject: Re: [PD] Pd META: Author/Help Patch Authors To: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com Cc: pd-list@iem.at Date: Monday, August 31, 2009, 4:16 PM Cool, could you post an example of parsing commas in Pd? If its easy to parse the commas from a 'text' object, then that would solve the tags debate. .hc On Aug 28, 2009, at 1:10 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: I'm getting close to finishing making all the help patches in the reference folder conform to the PDDP template. I need to add a keyword to pd META for the object author and the help patch authors, something like: AUTHOR Miller Puckette HELP_PATCH_AUTHOR(S) Dave Sabine, Krzysztof Czaja, Jonathan Wilkes (BTW, it's quite easy to parse commas in Pd.) -Jonathan ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list There is no way to peace, peace is the way. -A.J. Muste [W]e have invented the technology to eliminate scarcity, but we are deliberately throwing it away to benefit those who profit from scarcity.-John Gilmore file.pdparser.pd Looking at things from a more basic level, you can come up with a more direct solution... It may sound small in theory, but it in practice, it can change entire economies. - Amy Smith ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Pd META: Author/Help Patch Authors
--- On Tue, 9/1/09, Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at wrote: From: Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at Subject: Re: [PD] Pd META: Author/Help Patch Authors To: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com Cc: pd-list@iem.at Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 5:00 AM It is Pd, so I think we should at least make an effort to make things easy to parse in Pd. I tried your parser using data that is probably closer to what we might use, and it didn't work at all. If someone can get a Pd parser working that can handle the commas well, then I would be OK using commas in the meta data format. Here's my data: tags - pure data, frequency modulation, synthesis Hi Hans, I wouldn't expect my example to work as a general solution. If you want a general solution, I'd be happy to take a stab at it, but you haven't said what you want Pd to do with the data example you've provided above. -Jonathan ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
