[PD] PeRcolate?
Does anyone know if there is still a Pd version of PeRcolate available? It seems it hasn't been kept alive.. (At least the web site, http://www.akustische-kunst.org/puredata/percolate/, seems to be down.) Thanks, Steve ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] Percolate
Dear friends, well i am working with music and arduino and i need the old library percolate... with objects like a bamboo~, marimba~ etc... Can yours help me... Thanks a lot José -- http://www.chilemigra.cl http://arselectronicachile.blogspot.com http://www.myspace.com/santorcuato ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] PeRcolate?
Thanks! I don't use Fedora, but I suppose I could use the source package from there. Maybe there is a debianized version out there, I'll take a look. Steve On 3/5/07, Spencer Russell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > It seems that you can download RPMs of percolate at > http://ccrma.stanford.edu/planetccrma/software/pdworld.html#SECTION00063700 > > spencer > > > On 3/5/07, Stephen Sinclair <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Does anyone know if there is still a Pd version of PeRcolate available? > > It seems it hasn't been kept alive.. > > (At least the web site, > > http://www.akustische-kunst.org/puredata/percolate/, seems to be > > down.) > > > > Thanks, > > Steve > > > > ___ > > PD-list@iem.at mailing list > > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > > > ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] PeRcolate?
I exchanged emails with Olaf Matthes and he said that he is no longer doing Pd-related projects, but that someone could take the Max source and port it to Pd again. Some of those objects (munger~ in particular) are really great. Kevin On 3/5/07, Stephen Sinclair <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Does anyone know if there is still a Pd version of PeRcolate available? > It seems it hasn't been kept alive.. > (At least the web site, > http://www.akustische-kunst.org/puredata/percolate/, seems to be > down.) > > Thanks, > Steve > > ___ > PD-list@iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > -- http://pocketkm.blogspot.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] PeRcolate?
It seems that you can download RPMs of percolate at http://ccrma.stanford.edu/planetccrma/software/pdworld.html#SECTION00063700 spencer On 3/5/07, Stephen Sinclair <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Does anyone know if there is still a Pd version of PeRcolate available? > It seems it hasn't been kept alive.. > (At least the web site, > http://www.akustische-kunst.org/puredata/percolate/, seems to be > down.) > > Thanks, > Steve > > ___ > PD-list@iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] PeRcolate?
Hallo! > I exchanged emails with Olaf Matthes and he said that he is no longer > doing Pd-related projects, but that someone could take the Max source > and port it to Pd again. Yes, I also talked with Olaf last year and he said, that he doesn't program for pd anymore and removed all his websides ... But maybe someone still has the code on his computer ? Then we could put it into cvs ... LG Georg ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] PeRcolate?
> But maybe someone still has the code on his computer ? Then we could put > it into cvs ... I think (if my memory's not confused) that's actually the crux of it, something about the licensing doesn't permit it to be in CVS? http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2005-11/032777.html Someone who has dealt with this firsthand should enlighten us - Hans, perhaps you can recommend where to go? The source is indeed available in RPM form but I can't get it to unpack on OS X where I want to use it. If we are lucky, maybe the source only needs trivial modifications to be compatible with 0.39 or later (on which platforms?). This is more plausible (for someone who can code) than what Olaf suggested to me which was to take the existing Max source and essentially start over. The max/msp software lloopp makes excellent use of some of the percolate objects. I would love to use them in my own pd patches. I don't know of how much assistance I can be here because I don't know how to program in C - though it's times like this that make me want to start. Kevin -- http://pocketkm.blogspot.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] PeRcolate?
Hallo! > I think (if my memory's not confused) that's actually the crux of it, > something about the licensing doesn't permit it to be in CVS? > > http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2005-11/032777.html Okay, I have the source now ... But I can't see license problems (but I am not really familiar with such topics). The README says: -8<--8<--- License Agreement The Software is provided by Dan Trueman, R. Luke DuBois and the Computer Music Center, Columbia University (hereinafter referred to as the "AUTHOR"), free of charge and may be distributed free of charge, provided that this documentation is included unchanged with the software. You may not sell the software, nor may you take a fee or commission for providing the software to another person, nor may you include the software with or as part of other software that is sold for a fee without prior written permission from the Author. Source code for the software, if provided, can be re-used for educational or non-commercial purposes provided the Author is credited both in the product source and in the final product. The source code for this software may not be re-used for commercial purposes without negotiating and obtaining a commercial licensing agreement from the Author. 8<-8<- So if there are no objections I will add it the CVS ... LG Georg ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] PeRcolate?
Hallo, Georg Holzmann hat gesagt: // Georg Holzmann wrote: > Okay, I have the source now ... > > But I can't see license problems (but I am not really familiar with such > topics). > The README says: > > -8<--8<--- > License Agreement > > The Software is provided by Dan Trueman, R. Luke DuBois and the Computer > Music Center, Columbia University (hereinafter referred to as the > "AUTHOR"), free of charge and may be distributed free of charge, > provided that this documentation is included unchanged with the > software. You may not sell the software, nor may you take a fee or > commission for providing the software to another person, nor may you > include the software with or as part of other software that is sold for > a fee without prior written permission from the Author. Source code for > the software, if provided, can be re-used for educational or > non-commercial purposes provided the Author is credited both in the > product source and in the final product. The source code for this > software may not be re-used for commercial purposes without negotiating > and obtaining a commercial licensing agreement from the Author. > 8<-8<- > > So if there are no objections I will add it the CVS ... "Objection!" (Phoenix Wright) This license is non-open-source in that it does not allow any commercial use. We must not have this in the CVS. Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org_ __goto10.org__ ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] PeRcolate?
Hallo! > "Objection!" (Phoenix Wright) > > This license is non-open-source in that it does not allow any > commercial use. We must not have this in the CVS. Okay - but what is then e.g. Qt: it is open source (GPL) but when you use it in commercial products you need a commercial licence ... LG Georg ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] PeRcolate?
Frank Barknecht wrote: >> So if there are no objections I will add it the CVS ... > > "Objection!" (Phoenix Wright) > > This license is non-open-source in that it does not allow any > commercial use. We must not have this in the CVS. i am not sure whether sourceforge forbids to put a code that is licensed like that into their repositories (though i guess frank is right). apart from that, the license does not forbid to put it into any open (non-commercial) repository. so imo, the license allows us to include it on sourceforge, but sourceforge does not allow to include code under such license. mfga.sdr IOhannes > > Ciao ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] PeRcolate?
Hallo, Georg Holzmann hat gesagt: // Georg Holzmann wrote: > > "Objection!" (Phoenix Wright) > > > > This license is non-open-source in that it does not allow any > > commercial use. We must not have this in the CVS. > > Okay - but what is then e.g. Qt: it is open source (GPL) but when you > use it in commercial products you need a commercial licence ... You don't! Qt is a bit different than that: You can either use Qt by the terms of the GPL, and you can do this even in commercial products, but of course then you have to follow the terms of the GPL, which for example allows distribution of your Qt-program only, if you put it under the GPL as well. If you want to avoid the GPL, you can buy Qt under that other licence, which probably does not require that you put your software under GPL. Just to clear the smoke a bit more that is created by the word "commercial": Everything that is included in a Linux distribution, which can be bought for money - like Redhat or Novell/Suse and even Debian -, then becomes commercial software: the Linux kernel, MySQL, Apache, Audacity, and even Pd. Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org_ __goto10.org__ ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] PeRcolate?
Thanks for all the replies on this topic. I'll try compiling the old verison, or I might just do some hacking myself, at least on the STK objects I need. Cheers, Steve ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] PeRcolate?
Hallo! > Just to clear the smoke a bit more that is created by the word > "commercial": Everything that is included in a Linux distribution, > which can be bought for money - like Redhat or Novell/Suse and even > Debian -, then becomes commercial software: the Linux kernel, MySQL, > Apache, Audacity, and even Pd. hm ... okay, then my understanding of the word "commercial" was wrong ... Thanks, LG Georg ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] PeRcolate?
Hallo, Stephen Sinclair hat gesagt: // Stephen Sinclair wrote: > Thanks for all the replies on this topic. > I'll try compiling the old verison, or I might just do some hacking > myself, at least on the STK objects I need. STK also is available through some ggee externals in CVSROOT/externals/ggee/experimental and there also are some flext-versions floating around, maybe check the archives. Contrary to Percolate, STK is properly licensed as free software. I guess, the guys that wrote Percolate also intended to give it an open license, however the current license isn't good enough. It's similar to the issue we had with Csound some years ago. At least that made me abandon Csound and discover Pd. ;) Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org_ __goto10.org__ ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Percolate
Hi all, Given the recent discussion, here's some ahead notice (FWIW). I am currently working with my GTA on completing the port of the munger~ object which is a part of the Percolate lib but is also broken in the old Pd port. The port is flext-based which will allow the original author to continue its maintenance in a platform-agnostic way. The current status is that it is fully operational and based off of the 0.9beta5. The only thing remaining is to port elements found in the beta6 and release it. We should be hopefully releasing this object in the next couple of days. Best wishes, Ico ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Percolate
Hallo, Ivica Ico Bukvic hat gesagt: // Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote: > Given the recent discussion, here's some ahead notice (FWIW). I am currently > working with my GTA on completing the port of the munger~ object which is a > part of the Percolate lib but is also broken in the old Pd port. The port is > flext-based which will allow the original author to continue its maintenance > in a platform-agnostic way. I didn't check, but isn't munger~ licensed with the "no commercial, educational only" clause? If yes, then you might run into legal trouble because flext is GPL and the two licenses would be way incompatible. Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org_ __goto10.org__ ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Percolate
I know Dan very well, he's a really cool guy. Luke less so, however. FWIW, I can ask him to see if he would not mind altering license a bit to allow its inclusion in the pd cvs. Best wishes, Ico > -Original Message- > From: Kevin McCoy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2007 5:51 PM > To: Ivica Ico Bukvic; PD-list@iem.at; [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [PD] Percolate > > This is encouraging, as munger~ is really the object I want to use the > most. My opinion is keep going even if we don't figure out the > licensing right away. I'm just starting to realize what a conundrum > licensing could be. > > Has anyone considered contacting the original authors and requesting > GPL licensing? Is there any other kind of permission we could seek? > > Also, what about derivative code? I have little knowledge about the > differences in these licenses, so if someone could point out a > particularly lucid article that would be tight. > > Kevin > > On 3/6/07, Ivica Ico Bukvic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > Given the recent discussion, here's some ahead notice (FWIW). I am > currently > > working with my GTA on completing the port of the munger~ object which > is a > > part of the Percolate lib but is also broken in the old Pd port. The > port is > > flext-based which will allow the original author to continue its > maintenance > > in a platform-agnostic way. The current status is that it is fully > > operational and based off of the 0.9beta5. The only thing remaining is > to > > port elements found in the beta6 and release it. We should be hopefully > > releasing this object in the next couple of days. > > > > Best wishes, > > > > Ico > > > > > > > > ___ > > PD-list@iem.at mailing list > > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > > > > > -- > > > > http://pocketkm.blogspot.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Percolate
This is encouraging, as munger~ is really the object I want to use the most. My opinion is keep going even if we don't figure out the licensing right away. I'm just starting to realize what a conundrum licensing could be. Has anyone considered contacting the original authors and requesting GPL licensing? Is there any other kind of permission we could seek? Also, what about derivative code? I have little knowledge about the differences in these licenses, so if someone could point out a particularly lucid article that would be tight. Kevin On 3/6/07, Ivica Ico Bukvic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi all, > > Given the recent discussion, here's some ahead notice (FWIW). I am currently > working with my GTA on completing the port of the munger~ object which is a > part of the Percolate lib but is also broken in the old Pd port. The port is > flext-based which will allow the original author to continue its maintenance > in a platform-agnostic way. The current status is that it is fully > operational and based off of the 0.9beta5. The only thing remaining is to > port elements found in the beta6 and release it. We should be hopefully > releasing this object in the next couple of days. > > Best wishes, > > Ico > > > > ___ > PD-list@iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > -- http://pocketkm.blogspot.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Percolate
Hallo, Ivica Ico Bukvic hat gesagt: // Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote: > I know Dan very well, he's a really cool guy. Luke less so, however. FWIW, I > can ask him to see if he would not mind altering license a bit to allow its > inclusion in the pd cvs. Oh, please try! Having percolate's non-STK objects available would be so lovely. I'm sure it's not in their intention to keep percolate from being used in open source projects just because of a hairy license issue, but they are the only ones who could do something about it. Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org_ __goto10.org__ ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Percolate
>I didn't check, but isn't munger~ licensed with the "no commercial, >educational only" clause? If yes, then you might run into legal >trouble because flext is GPL and the two licenses would be way >incompatible. Hi Frank, Well I am "educational only" currently so no problem there. Apart from that I know Dan well and he is AFAIK all in support of this effort. I am also currently discussing with him and Luke whether we could adjust Percolate license to have it include in PD. At least as far as munger~ object is concerned, this may not be a problem (don't know for sure yet, though). But the rest of the external does have some stuff that may belong to Yamaha patent-wise, so I am not sure how that will play itself out. Will keep you posted... Best wishes, Ico ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Percolate
> I know Dan very well, he's a really cool guy. Luke less so, however. FWIW, I just realized how awkward this sounded. Sorry all, especially my sincere apologies to Luke if he is reading this. My proofreading has gone down the drain since I began averaging 30+ e-mails a day... What I meant to say is that both Luke and Dan are very cool guys, I just don't know Luke as well as I do know Dan... Ico ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Percolate
Oh, please try! Having percolate's non-STK objects available would be so lovely. I'm sure it's not in their intention to keep percolate from being used in open source projects just because of a hairy license issue, but they are the only ones who could do something about it. BTW, the latest version of munger~ 0.9beta6 is STK-dependent. The one we have currently built and is working just fine isn't (this one is based off of 0.9beta5). FWIW, you can always compile flext with stk... Alternately, a couple ifdefs should do the trick... Best wishes, Ico ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Percolate
Hallo, Ivica Ico Bukvic hat gesagt: // Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote: > Well I am "educational only" currently so no problem there. That's not the problem. The problem is, that the current Percolate license is not a free software license. Non-free licenses are incompatible with the GPL, which flext uses. By distributing a version of Percolate externals using their current license built with GPL-flext you would be violating the GPL! So you are not allowed to distribute your flext-Percolate ATM. See http://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html for compatibility issues when combining the GPL and other licenses. Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org_ __goto10.org__ ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Percolate
> That's not the problem. The problem is, that the current Percolate > license is not a free software license. Non-free licenses are > incompatible with the GPL, which flext uses. By distributing a version > of Percolate externals using their current license built with > GPL-flext you would be violating the GPL! So you are not allowed to > distribute your flext-Percolate ATM. Please pardon my ignorance, but will this be the case even if I distribute the ported code as source-only (assuming that I get a permission to do so from the original authors)? Also, how does this affect Stk+flext, since Stk's license is not GPL either? Best wishes, Ico ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Percolate
Hallo, Ivica Ico Bukvic hat gesagt: // Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote: > > That's not the problem. The problem is, that the current Percolate > > license is not a free software license. Non-free licenses are > > incompatible with the GPL, which flext uses. By distributing a version > > of Percolate externals using their current license built with > > GPL-flext you would be violating the GPL! So you are not allowed to > > distribute your flext-Percolate ATM. > > Please pardon my ignorance, but will this be the case even if I distribute > the ported code as source-only (assuming that I get a permission to do so > from the original authors)? I'm not a lawyer, but as I understand it, source or binary doesn't matter: As long as you distribute a flext-external, source or binary, you have to distribute it as GPL. This is impossible without violating either the Percolate license or the GPL, because both are incompatible: the Percolate license isn't a free license. > Also, how does this affect Stk+flext, since Stk's license is not GPL > either? The Stk-license is perfectly compatible with the GPL, it's almost a public domain license and doesn't try to restrict use and distributiom in a way, as Percolate's license does. So there are no problems linking flext and stk. Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org_ __goto10.org__ ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Percolate
> I'm not a lawyer, but as I understand it, source or binary doesn't > matter: As long as you distribute a flext-external, source or binary, > you have to distribute it as GPL. This is impossible without violating > either the Percolate license or the GPL, because both are > incompatible: the Percolate license isn't a free license. > > > Also, how does this affect Stk+flext, since Stk's license is not GPL > > either? > > The Stk-license is perfectly compatible with the GPL, it's almost a > public domain license and doesn't try to restrict use and distributiom > in a way, as Percolate's license does. So there are no problems > linking flext and stk. While I can see your point, one thing that confuses the heck out of me is the following excerpt from the STK license: "Some of the concepts are covered by various patents, some known to us and likely others which are unknown. Many of the ones known to us are administered by the Stanford Office of Technology and Licensing." Obviously, I am not a lawyer either, but I thought that GPL was not patent-compatible. If someone's source is potentially infringing upon a patent, (which I am not claiming that STK is--I am speaking here purely hypothetically), my rather limited [mis]understanding of licenses is that they do not have the right to grant permissions to others to use patented code of a patent that is not theirs... This is why I thought that "educational use" ought to do it, but then again, what do I know? ;-) Best wishes, Ico ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Percolate
Isn't it convenient that having a severely convoluted and complicated system of law ensures the existence of the profession for those whom practice it? ~Kyle On 3/7/07, Ivica Ico Bukvic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I'm not a lawyer, but as I understand it, source or binary doesn't > > matter: As long as you distribute a flext-external, source or binary, > > you have to distribute it as GPL. This is impossible without violating > > either the Percolate license or the GPL, because both are > > incompatible: the Percolate license isn't a free license. > > > > > Also, how does this affect Stk+flext, since Stk's license is not GPL > > > either? > > > > The Stk-license is perfectly compatible with the GPL, it's almost a > > public domain license and doesn't try to restrict use and distributiom > > in a way, as Percolate's license does. So there are no problems > > linking flext and stk. > > While I can see your point, one thing that confuses the heck out of me is > the following excerpt from the STK license: > > "Some of the concepts are covered by various patents, some known to us and > likely others which are unknown. Many of the ones known to us are > administered by the Stanford Office of Technology and Licensing." > > Obviously, I am not a lawyer either, but I thought that GPL was not > patent-compatible. If someone's source is potentially infringing upon a > patent, (which I am not claiming that STK is--I am speaking here purely > hypothetically), my rather limited [mis]understanding of licenses is that > they do not have the right to grant permissions to others to use patented > code of a patent that is not theirs... > > This is why I thought that "educational use" ought to do it, but then again, > what do I know? ;-) > > Best wishes, > > Ico > > > > ___ > PD-list@iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > -- http://theradioproject.com http://perhapsidid.blogspot.com (()()()(()))()()())( (())(())()((( ))(__ _())(()))___ (((000)))oOO ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Percolate
Question: Although I'm naive on all this stuff, maybe this question will help the plot to thicken: If STK is incompatible with GPL, how is it that ChucK, which is GPL software, is able to include ports of all Perry Cook's STK stuff??? And if it works for them, I don't see why it can't be done for PD. I've been waiting for something to happen with percolate since I first used PD (though I admit I got my paws on an old win binary that works, I'm doing PD on Linux now, too). ~David ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Percolate
Hallo, David Powers hat gesagt: // David Powers wrote: > Although I'm naive on all this stuff, maybe this question will help > the plot to thicken: > If STK is incompatible with GPL, how is it that ChucK, which is GPL > software, is able to include ports of all Perry Cook's STK stuff??? > And if it works for them, I don't see why it can't be done for PD. STK *is* compatible with the GPL. But Percolate includes some other objects that are not derived from STK and are covered by a different license which prohibits commercial and non-educational distribution. If you're just interested in STK you can use the STK objects in the GGEE collection of Pd externals (or build some simple STK externals with flext by adapting the flext tutorial files.) Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org_ __goto10.org__ ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Percolate
On Wed, Mar 07, 2007 at 03:42:33PM +0100, Frank Barknecht wrote: > Hallo, > Ivica Ico Bukvic hat gesagt: // Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote: > > > > That's not the problem. The problem is, that the current Percolate > > > license is not a free software license. Non-free licenses are > > > incompatible with the GPL, which flext uses. By distributing a version > > > of Percolate externals using their current license built with > > > GPL-flext you would be violating the GPL! So you are not allowed to > > > distribute your flext-Percolate ATM. > > > > Please pardon my ignorance, but will this be the case even if I distribute > > the ported code as source-only (assuming that I get a permission to do so > > from the original authors)? > > I'm not a lawyer, but as I understand it, source or binary doesn't > matter: As long as you distribute a flext-external, source or binary, > you have to distribute it as GPL. This is impossible without violating > either the Percolate license or the GPL, because both are > incompatible: the Percolate license isn't a free license. It would be good to find out what the legal status of code that is illegally licensed. We've had this issue before with the not-for-military-use clause that Yves added to his software, rendering it technically illegal. A lawyer could tell us if it's a) in legal limbo land where nobody is legally allowed to use it b) defaults to public domain c) something else weird. Chris. --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mccormick.cx ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Percolate
Chris McCormick wrote: > It would be good to find out what the legal status of code > that is illegally licensed. the default is that software is copyright protected. and the owner has the exclusive right to reproduce, sell, license it. there are some exceptions to this rule, but I think not in this case. marius. ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Percolate
On Wed, Mar 07, 2007 at 11:36:11PM -0500, marius schebella wrote: > Chris McCormick wrote: > >It would be good to find out what the legal status of code > >that is illegally licensed. > > the default is that software is copyright protected. and the owner has > the exclusive right to reproduce, sell, license it. Yes of course. But if they are linking with GPL software there are some restrictions as to what they can do with their own copyright code. Sure, they can reproduce, sell, and license their own code, but they cannot include the GPL software with that if they are violating the terms of the GPL. They cannot license their own copyright code with a license that violates the GPL if they are using GPL code linked to their own code. What does it mean if they violate the GPL and do so anyway? What does it mean for people who use the software? It's confusing, which is why a real lawyer is needed to answer these questions. Best, Chris. --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mccormick.cx ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Percolate
Chris McCormick wrote: > > What does it mean if they violate the GPL and do so anyway? What does it > mean for people who use the software? the problem is, that asking this questions is not as simple (i think, being no lawyer myself). it is rather: what does it mean to ... in the US? what does it meant to ... in austria? what does it meant to ... in germany? and so forth. (there probably (but who knows...) will be little differences between the austrian and german legal state, but i am pretty sure that there will be major differences between the anglo-american and the european way. (and other ways too, but about these i know even less) > It's confusing, which is why a real lawyer is needed to answer these > questions. this is why it would require a host of lawyers. and that is the fun part of all this. things are certainly better in CreativeCommons (among other things because they are less u.s.-centric than the FSF). mfgasd.r IOhannes ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Percolate
ola, >It would be good to find out what the legal status of code >that is illegally licensed. We've had this issue before with the >not-for-military-use clause that Yves added to his software, rendering >it technically illegal. A lawyer could tell us if it's a) in legal limbo >land where nobody is legally allowed to use it b) defaults to public >domain c) something else weird. > > > in fact, i'm glad of considering my software 'illegal' when you see what the 'law' ( mainly american ) and the OMC are able to achieve with tricks. saludos, sevy ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Percolate
sad, but you're absolutely right. marius. Yves Degoyon wrote: > ola, > >> It would be good to find out what the legal status of code >> that is illegally licensed. We've had this issue before with the >> not-for-military-use clause that Yves added to his software, rendering >> it technically illegal. A lawyer could tell us if it's a) in legal limbo >> land where nobody is legally allowed to use it b) defaults to public >> domain c) something else weird. >> >> >> > in fact, i'm glad of considering my software 'illegal' > when you see what the 'law' ( mainly american ) > and the OMC are able to achieve with tricks. > > saludos, > sevy > > ___ > PD-list@iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Percolate
I think this is what is called "selective perception". Nobody said that it's generally illegal, like nothing is. all the best, Thomas marius schebella schrieb: > sad, but you're absolutely right. > marius. > > Yves Degoyon wrote: > >> ola, >> >> >>> It would be good to find out what the legal status of code >>> that is illegally licensed. We've had this issue before with the >>> not-for-military-use clause that Yves added to his software, rendering >>> it technically illegal. A lawyer could tell us if it's a) in legal limbo >>> land where nobody is legally allowed to use it b) defaults to public >>> domain c) something else weird. >>> >>> >>> >>> >> in fact, i'm glad of considering my software 'illegal' >> when you see what the 'law' ( mainly american ) >> and the OMC are able to achieve with tricks. >> >> saludos, >> sevy >> >> ___ >> PD-list@iem.at mailing list >> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> >> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >> >> > > > ___ > PD-list@iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > > -- Thomas Grill http://g.org ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Percolate
I wanted to say it is sad, that law does never cover all possibilities, and sometimes even protects illegal behavior. marius. Thomas Grill wrote: > I think this is what is called "selective perception". Nobody said that > it's generally illegal, like nothing is. > all the best, Thomas > > marius schebella schrieb: >> sad, but you're absolutely right. >> marius. >> >> Yves Degoyon wrote: >> >>> ola, >>> >>> It would be good to find out what the legal status of code that is illegally licensed. We've had this issue before with the not-for-military-use clause that Yves added to his software, rendering it technically illegal. A lawyer could tell us if it's a) in legal limbo land where nobody is legally allowed to use it b) defaults to public domain c) something else weird. >>> in fact, i'm glad of considering my software 'illegal' >>> when you see what the 'law' ( mainly american ) >>> and the OMC are able to achieve with tricks. >>> >>> saludos, >>> sevy >>> >>> ___ >>> PD-list@iem.at mailing list >>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> >>> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >>> >>> >> >> >> ___ >> PD-list@iem.at mailing list >> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> >> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >> >> > ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Percolate
On 07/03/2007, at 15.42, Frank Barknecht wrote: > Hallo, > Ivica Ico Bukvic hat gesagt: // Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote: > >>> That's not the problem. The problem is, that the current Percolate >>> license is not a free software license. Non-free licenses are >>> incompatible with the GPL, which flext uses. By distributing a >>> version >>> of Percolate externals using their current license built with >>> GPL-flext you would be violating the GPL! So you are not allowed to >>> distribute your flext-Percolate ATM. >> >> Please pardon my ignorance, but will this be the case even if I >> distribute >> the ported code as source-only (assuming that I get a permission >> to do so >> from the original authors)? > > I'm not a lawyer, but as I understand it, source or binary doesn't > matter: As long as you distribute a flext-external, source or binary, > you have to distribute it as GPL. This is impossible without violating > either the Percolate license or the GPL, because both are > incompatible: the Percolate license isn't a free license. Regarding Flext in general and this: http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl- faq.html#MereAggregation Is Flext based externals, which need be GPL externals, violating the GPL when used as Max/MSP externals? If so, and if the GPL is not violated when using the Flext based externals with Pd, then it makes sense in my head to distinguish between binary and source wrt violation against the GPL. But Flext might have a clause that catches just that? ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Percolate
> Is Flext based externals, which need be GPL externals, violating the > GPL when used as Max/MSP externals? If so, and if the GPL is not > violated when using the Flext based externals with Pd, then it makes > sense in my head to distinguish between binary and source wrt > violation against the GPL. But Flext might have a clause that catches > just that? > To my mind, flext-based Max externals would only violate the GPL, if they were shipped closed-source with Max. If the are GPL'd as well and installed by the user, i don't see why this should be a problem. greetings, Thomas -- Thomas Grill http://g.org ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Percolate
On Thu, 2007-03-08 at 23:37 +0100, Thomas Grill wrote: > > Is Flext based externals, which need be GPL externals, violating the > > GPL when used as Max/MSP externals? If so, and if the GPL is not > > violated when using the Flext based externals with Pd, then it makes > > sense in my head to distinguish between binary and source wrt > > violation against the GPL. But Flext might have a clause that catches > > just that? > > > To my mind, flext-based Max externals would only violate the GPL, if > they were shipped closed-source with Max. > If the are GPL'd as well and installed by the user, i don't see why this > should be a problem. although i don't really like this clause, the following description is quite clear: http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#GPLPluginsInNF tim -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]ICQ: 96771783 http://tim.klingt.org There's no such entity as "most people". These are generalities. All generalities are meaningless. You've got to pin it down to a specific person doing a specific thing at a specific time and space. William S. Burroughs signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Percolate
Am 09.03.2007 um 00:03 schrieb Tim Blechmann: > On Thu, 2007-03-08 at 23:37 +0100, Thomas Grill wrote: >>> Is Flext based externals, which need be GPL externals, violating the >>> GPL when used as Max/MSP externals? If so, and if the GPL is not >>> violated when using the Flext based externals with Pd, then it makes >>> sense in my head to distinguish between binary and source wrt >>> violation against the GPL. But Flext might have a clause that >>> catches >>> just that? >>> >> To my mind, flext-based Max externals would only violate the GPL, if >> they were shipped closed-source with Max. >> If the are GPL'd as well and installed by the user, i don't see >> why this >> should be a problem. > > although i don't really like this clause, the following description is > quite clear: > http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#GPLPluginsInNF I knew about this one, but i don't think that this is applicable if there is no actual distribution of the non-GPLd program with GPLd plugins. I might be wrong, though. Anyway, i don't care much - if the GPL is odd enough to violate against such usage i would consider a different license. Idealism gone. greetings, Thomas -- Thomas Grill http://g.org ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Percolate
On Mar 8, 2007, at 5:14 AM, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote: > Chris McCormick wrote: >> >> What does it mean if they violate the GPL and do so anyway? What >> does it >> mean for people who use the software? > > the problem is, that asking this questions is not as simple (i think, > being no lawyer myself). > > it is rather: > what does it mean to ... in the US? what does it meant to ... in > austria? what does it meant to ... in germany? and so forth. > > (there probably (but who knows...) will be little differences between > the austrian and german legal state, but i am pretty sure that there > will be major differences between the anglo-american and the european > way. (and other ways too, but about these i know even less) I think that they are not as big as you'd guess because there are international treaties that are all about making these laws work in the same ways across borders. Copyright, patents, and trademarks act quite similarly in all countries that participate in these treaties (which is most). >> It's confusing, which is why a real lawyer is needed to answer these >> questions. > > this is why it would require a host of lawyers. > and that is the fun part of all this. > > things are certainly better in CreativeCommons (among other things > because they are less u.s.-centric than the FSF). Hmm, that's debatable. They don't have a license without an attribution clause, it's not even an option. And the CC attribution clause is much worse than the BSD attribution clause ever was. .hc > > > mfgasd.r > IOhannes > > ___ > PD-list@iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/ > listinfo/pd-list http://at.or.at/hans/ ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Percolate
On 3/8/07, Thomas Grill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Am 09.03.2007 um 00:03 schrieb Tim Blechmann: > > although i don't really like this clause, the following description is > > quite clear: > > http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#GPLPluginsInNF > > I knew about this one, but i don't think that this is applicable if > there is no actual distribution of the non-GPLd program with GPLd > plugins. > I might be wrong, though. Anyway, i don't care much - if the GPL is > odd enough to violate against such usage i would consider a different > license. Idealism gone. > Not to mention, that the GPL has never been rigorously tested in a court of law. At least in the United States, such matters are in something of a legal limbo, until the courts set precedents. Interestingly, this identical issue came up on the ChucK list today. There is a [chuck~] external for max/msp, which it turns out probably violates the GPL. Anyway, I'm all for the pragmatic approach as Thomas Grill has just expressed ... (Just like, if I decide I want to sample a Prince song tomorrow night, I'm going to do it, copyright laws be damned...!) ~David ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Percolate
On Mar 8, 2007, at 6:16 PM, Thomas Grill wrote: > > Am 09.03.2007 um 00:03 schrieb Tim Blechmann: > >> On Thu, 2007-03-08 at 23:37 +0100, Thomas Grill wrote: Is Flext based externals, which need be GPL externals, violating the GPL when used as Max/MSP externals? If so, and if the GPL is not violated when using the Flext based externals with Pd, then it makes sense in my head to distinguish between binary and source wrt violation against the GPL. But Flext might have a clause that catches just that? >>> To my mind, flext-based Max externals would only violate the GPL, if >>> they were shipped closed-source with Max. >>> If the are GPL'd as well and installed by the user, i don't see >>> why this >>> should be a problem. >> >> although i don't really like this clause, the following >> description is >> quite clear: >> http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#GPLPluginsInNF > > I knew about this one, but i don't think that this is applicable if > there is no actual distribution of the non-GPLd program with GPLd > plugins. > I might be wrong, though. Anyway, i don't care much - if the GPL is > odd enough to violate against such usage i would consider a different > license. Idealism gone. Its a catch22 in the license, but it would only be a problem if the copyright holder enforces it. If you are the copyright holder, and you don't decide to enforce that particular part of the license, then there is no other problem. .hc > > greetings, > Thomas > > -- > Thomas Grill > http://g.org > > > > ___ > PD-list@iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/ > listinfo/pd-list Looking at things from a more basic level, you can come up with a more direct solution... It may sound small in theory, but it in practice, it can change entire economies. - Amy Smith ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Percolate
Hallo, Thomas Grill hat gesagt: // Thomas Grill wrote: > Am 09.03.2007 um 00:03 schrieb Tim Blechmann: > > >although i don't really like this clause, the following description is > >quite clear: > >http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#GPLPluginsInNF > > I knew about this one, but i don't think that this is applicable if > there is no actual distribution of the non-GPLd program with GPLd > plugins. You could always "resolve that legal problem by adding an exception to your plug-in's license, giving permission to link it with the non-free main program." [1] I always assumed, that flext had such a clause, as obviously it is intended to be used with the non-free Max/MSP as well. > I might be wrong, though. Anyway, i don't care much - if the GPL is > odd enough to violate against such usage i would consider a different > license. Idealism gone. Why is it odd, that the GPL does not permit linking GPL-binaries with closed-source programs as default? I think, it was one of the motivations of Stallman to make a clear cut between non-free and free software, because his original goal was to develop "a sufficient body of free software so that I will be able to get along without any software that is not free." [1] (If all that is a good idea, is another discussion, of course.) [1] http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#GPLPluginsInNF [2] http://www.gnu.org/gnu/initial-announcement.html Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org_ __goto10.org__ ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Percolate
Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: >> will be major differences between the anglo-american and the european >> way. (and other ways too, but about these i know even less) > > I think that they are not as big as you'd guess because there are > international treaties that are all about making these laws work in > the same ways across borders. Copyright, patents, and trademarks act > quite similarly in all countries that participate in these treaties > (which is most). not quite true. (i'd say it is an anglo-centristic viewpoint ;-)) after all, in anglo-american space we have to deal with "copyright" whereas in continental europe we still have the "urheberrecht" which is something really different. >> >> things are certainly better in CreativeCommons (among other things >> because they are less u.s.-centric than the FSF). > > Hmm, that's debatable. They don't have a license without an > attribution clause, it's not even an option. And the CC attribution > clause is much worse than the BSD attribution clause ever was. yes i agree here. i was just trying to say that the creative commons is much more "court-proof" in different countries since it has been adapted to really fit within the legislature of these. the GPL never had anything but the u.s.-american copyright law in mind, which makes it not necesserarily fit for other countries. i do not say that the GPL is bad or futile in europe, it is the license i use... mfg.asdr IOhannes ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Percolate
IOhannes m zmoelnig schreef: > > not quite true. > (i'd say it is an anglo-centristic viewpoint ;-)) > after all, in anglo-american space we have to deal with "copyright" > whereas in continental europe we still have the "urheberrecht" which is > something really different. > copyright is the english (language) equivalent of urheberrecht. there's no difference. this is an area everybody typically has a strong opinion about. sadly this opinion is mostly based on severe misconceptions. m -- http://www.mprims.net ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Percolate
On Mar 8, 2007, at 6:27 PM, David Powers wrote: > On 3/8/07, Thomas Grill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> Am 09.03.2007 um 00:03 schrieb Tim Blechmann: > >>> although i don't really like this clause, the following >>> description is >>> quite clear: >>> http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#GPLPluginsInNF >> >> I knew about this one, but i don't think that this is applicable if >> there is no actual distribution of the non-GPLd program with GPLd >> plugins. >> I might be wrong, though. Anyway, i don't care much - if the GPL is >> odd enough to violate against such usage i would consider a different >> license. Idealism gone. >> > > Not to mention, that the GPL has never been rigorously tested in a > court of law. At least in the United States, such matters are in > something of a legal limbo, until the courts set precedents. While this is technically true, it's not really meaningful that no one has gone to court over the GPL. The reason why is because copyright license law is so clear and straightforward in regards to the GPL that no one would be stupid enough to fight the FSF in court. They would lose and just spend more money doing it. The FSF actively enforces the GPL, getting lots of different sources released (the Linksys firmware source is a good example). The FSF has no reason to take anyone to court as long as they comply with the license. So far everyone has. .hc > Interestingly, this identical issue came up on the ChucK list today. > There is a [chuck~] external for max/msp, which it turns out probably > violates the GPL. > > Anyway, I'm all for the pragmatic approach as Thomas Grill has just > expressed ... (Just like, if I decide I want to sample a Prince song > tomorrow night, I'm going to do it, copyright laws be damned...!) > > ~David > > ___ > PD-list@iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/ > listinfo/pd-list All information should be free. - the hacker ethic ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Percolate
On Fri, 2007-03-09 at 19:52 +0100, mik wrote: > copyright is the english (language) equivalent of urheberrecht. there's > no difference. there is a difference in concept, it is not just a translation. read more on http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright . roman ___ Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Percolate
Hallo, Hans-Christoph Steiner hat gesagt: // Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: > On Mar 8, 2007, at 6:27 PM, David Powers wrote: > > Not to mention, that the GPL has never been rigorously tested in a > > court of law. At least in the United States, such matters are in > > something of a legal limbo, until the courts set precedents. > > While this is technically true, it's not really meaningful that no > one has gone to court over the GPL. At least here in Germany the GPL *was* tested successfully in court last year: http://gpl-violations.org/news/20060922-dlink-judgement_frankfurt.html Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org_ __goto10.org__ ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Percolate
I don't think "copyright" is the same as urheberrecht. I would rather compare it to authorship. the copyright goes always to the "owner". for example, when you work for a big Pd company and your boss says, write a pd patch for that exhibition, than you would be the author, but since that would be considered a "work for hire", your boss would have the copyright. in europe this is slightly different, because as the author/urheber you have some default rights on your work, which you maybe do not have in the US. some general rules about the us copyright: copyright protects creative output, (compositions, lyrics, expressions, also gestures, lighting.) but not ideas or facts. the important thing is always sufficiant creativity. it protects the copyright holder against unauthorized reproduction, display, performance, or derivative works. (of course this is only the short version.) one speciality for example is the "joined work", when several people work as a group on an artwork and you cannot split up the whole thing, then everybody would have the right to grant rights, but not "exclusive rights", which can only be granted, when all participants of the group agree on that... anyway, the biggest discussions in the US at the moment are about "fair use". lat's talk about that another time. marius. mik wrote: > copyright is the english (language) equivalent of urheberrecht. there's > no difference. > this is an area everybody typically has a strong opinion about. sadly > this opinion is mostly based on severe misconceptions. > > > m ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Percolate
On Mar 9, 2007, at 3:04 AM, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote: > Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: >>> will be major differences between the anglo-american and the >>> european >>> way. (and other ways too, but about these i know even less) >> >> I think that they are not as big as you'd guess because there are >> international treaties that are all about making these laws work in >> the same ways across borders. Copyright, patents, and trademarks act >> quite similarly in all countries that participate in these treaties >> (which is most). > > not quite true. > (i'd say it is an anglo-centristic viewpoint ;-)) > after all, in anglo-american space we have to deal with "copyright" > whereas in continental europe we still have the "urheberrecht" > which is > something really different. The mechanisms is different, but the functions are largely the same. For example, "Fair Use" with copyright is determined more by court rulings in the U.S. while I think that Urheberrecht/droit d'auteur codifies it as the right to quote. As for GPL in the German courts, it has been tested, and the GPL was legal and enforced: http://gpl-violations.org/news/20060922-dlink-judgement_frankfurt.html .hc >>> >>> things are certainly better in CreativeCommons (among other things >>> because they are less u.s.-centric than the FSF). >> >> Hmm, that's debatable. They don't have a license without an >> attribution clause, it's not even an option. And the CC attribution >> clause is much worse than the BSD attribution clause ever was. > > yes i agree here. > i was just trying to say that the creative commons is much more > "court-proof" in different countries since it has been adapted to > really > fit within the legislature of these. > > the GPL never had anything but the u.s.-american copyright law in > mind, > which makes it not necesserarily fit for other countries. > i do not say that the GPL is bad or futile in europe, it is the > license > i use... > > > mfg.asdr > IOhannes Man has survived hitherto because he was too ignorant to know how to realize his wishes. Now that he can realize them, he must either change them, or perish.-William Carlos Williams ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Percolate
yes, okay, urheberrecht seems to be a particular case, only applicable in germany. but on the whole most national copyright laws are very alike, since most countries have signed the convention of berne, and have the concept of moral rights, ie rights which never can be transferred. what you cite as the general rules of us copyright is the basis of almost any copyright law. the moral rights issue, however, seems not to be entirely resolved in the anglo-american parts of our planet, but in theory these countries should also protect these rights, as they have signed the berne convention. p. :) m marius schebella schreef: > I don't think "copyright" is the same as urheberrecht. I would rather > compare it to authorship. the copyright goes always to the "owner". for > example, when you work for a big Pd company and your boss says, write a > pd patch for that exhibition, than you would be the author, but since > that would be considered a "work for hire", your boss would have the > copyright. > in europe this is slightly different, because as the author/urheber you > have some default rights on your work, which you maybe do not have in > the US. > some general rules about the us copyright: > copyright protects creative output, (compositions, lyrics, expressions, > also gestures, lighting.) but not ideas or facts. the important > thing is always sufficiant creativity. > it protects the copyright holder against unauthorized reproduction, > display, performance, or derivative works. (of course this is only the > short version.) > one speciality for example is the "joined work", when several people > work as a group on an artwork and you cannot split up the whole thing, > then everybody would have the right to grant rights, but not "exclusive > rights", which can only be granted, when all participants of the group > agree on that... > anyway, the biggest discussions in the US at the moment are about "fair > use". lat's talk about that another time. > marius. > > mik wrote: > >> copyright is the english (language) equivalent of urheberrecht. there's >> no difference. >> this is an area everybody typically has a strong opinion about. sadly >> this opinion is mostly based on severe misconceptions. >> >> >> m > > > ___ > PD-list@iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > -- http://www.mprims.net ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Percolate
To be pedantic, the French droit d'auteur is very similar to urheberrecht, so there are other countries with different systems. I think we are basically on the same page. For the average person there is basically no noticeable difference between these systems, it's really just a question of the legal mechanisms used rather than the effects. .hc On Mar 11, 2007, at 3:29 PM, mik wrote: > yes, okay, urheberrecht seems to be a particular case, only applicable > in germany. but on the whole most national copyright laws are very > alike, since most countries have signed the convention of berne, and > have the concept of moral rights, ie rights which never can be > transferred. what you cite as the general rules of us copyright is the > basis of almost any copyright law. the moral rights issue, however, > seems not to be entirely resolved in the anglo-american parts of our > planet, but in theory these countries should also protect these > rights, > as they have signed the berne convention. > > p. > > :) > > m > > > marius schebella schreef: >> I don't think "copyright" is the same as urheberrecht. I would rather >> compare it to authorship. the copyright goes always to the >> "owner". for >> example, when you work for a big Pd company and your boss says, >> write a >> pd patch for that exhibition, than you would be the author, but since >> that would be considered a "work for hire", your boss would have the >> copyright. >> in europe this is slightly different, because as the author/ >> urheber you >> have some default rights on your work, which you maybe do not have in >> the US. >> some general rules about the us copyright: >> copyright protects creative output, (compositions, lyrics, >> expressions, >> also gestures, lighting.) but not ideas or facts. the important >> thing is always sufficiant creativity. >> it protects the copyright holder against unauthorized reproduction, >> display, performance, or derivative works. (of course this is only >> the >> short version.) >> one speciality for example is the "joined work", when several people >> work as a group on an artwork and you cannot split up the whole >> thing, >> then everybody would have the right to grant rights, but not >> "exclusive >> rights", which can only be granted, when all participants of the >> group >> agree on that... >> anyway, the biggest discussions in the US at the moment are about >> "fair >> use". lat's talk about that another time. >> marius. >> >> mik wrote: >> >>> copyright is the english (language) equivalent of urheberrecht. >>> there's >>> no difference. >>> this is an area everybody typically has a strong opinion about. >>> sadly >>> this opinion is mostly based on severe misconceptions. >>> >>> >>> m >> >> >> ___ >> PD-list@iem.at mailing list >> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/ >> listinfo/pd-list >> > > -- > > http://www.mprims.net > > ___ > PD-list@iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/ > listinfo/pd-list Looking at things from a more basic level, you can come up with a more direct solution... It may sound small in theory, but it in practice, it can change entire economies. - Amy Smith ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Percolate
On Mar 11, 2007, at 12:19 PM, Frank Barknecht wrote: > Hallo, > Hans-Christoph Steiner hat gesagt: // Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: > >> On Mar 8, 2007, at 6:27 PM, David Powers wrote: >>> Not to mention, that the GPL has never been rigorously tested in a >>> court of law. At least in the United States, such matters are in >>> something of a legal limbo, until the courts set precedents. >> >> While this is technically true, it's not really meaningful that no >> one has gone to court over the GPL. > > At least here in Germany the GPL *was* tested successfully in court > last year: > http://gpl-violations.org/news/20060922-dlink-judgement_frankfurt.html Yeah, I just saw that. D-Link was silly enough to take it to court. Looks like they not only lost the case in court, but also had to pay for all the legal expenses for both sides. It also sounds like the the GPL people would have gotten damages too if they had requested it. .hc > > Ciao > -- > Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org_ __goto10.org__ > > ___ > PD-list@iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/ > listinfo/pd-list I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. - General Smedley Butler ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Percolate
Hans-Christoph Steiner schreef: > > To be pedantic, the French droit d'auteur is very similar to > urheberrecht, so there are other countries with different systems. I > think we are basically on the same page. For the average person there > is basically no noticeable difference between these systems, it's really > just a question of the legal mechanisms used rather than the effects. > > .hc > it probably is, as is the belgian, which i am mainly talking about, all eu members have the same regulations to adhere to, after all, but the german system seemed a bit more strict to me, at first glance. it's the inalienablity of certain rights which seems to make the difference (between the us and the rest). the question is: does the berne convention precede national law? ssorry: way OT. that question is one ask myself. this is not the place to continue discussing about it. m ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Percolate
Any progress on this so far or a response from the authors about modifying licensing? Just checking - I have enjoyed reading about copyrights but I was just wondering the status of this. Maybe it's too soon to ask though. Thanks, Kevin On 3/6/07, Ivica Ico Bukvic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Oh, please try! Having percolate's non-STK objects available would be > > so lovely. I'm sure it's not in their intention to keep percolate from > > being used in open source projects just because of a hairy license > > issue, but they are the only ones who could do something about it. > > BTW, the latest version of munger~ 0.9beta6 is STK-dependent. The one we > have currently built and is working just fine isn't (this one is based off > of 0.9beta5). FWIW, you can always compile flext with stk... Alternately, a > couple ifdefs should do the trick... > > Best wishes, > > Ico > > > > ___ > PD-list@iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > > -- http://pocketkm.blogspot.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Percolate
Jose, Since no one else has answered your question so far, and since I had to find an answer to the same question only a few weeks ago, this is what I know about the current state of development of Percolate: You can find the different versions of Percolate at http://www.music.columbia.edu/PeRColate/ From there, there is a link to a Pd version of Percolate by Olaf Matthes. This version, however, is no longer available. From what I've heard - I was not around when this happened - Olaf seems to have decided to no longer develop for Pd after a dispute with other developers. Unfortunately, no one has stepped up to the plate to create a new port. So it seems that right now you have two options; find a way to do your project without the Percolate objects, or move to Max/MSP ... Hope this helps. Rene From: Jose Luis Santorcuato Subject: [PD] Percolate To: PD List Message-ID: <4345df630909241518w2a3b5dd3xcb5db24a89912...@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Dear friends, well i am working with music and arduino and i need the old library percolate... with objects like a bamboo~, marimba~ etc... Can yours help me... Thanks a lot Jos? ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Percolate
> So it seems that right now you have two options; find a way > to do your project without the Percolate objects, or move to > Max/MSP ... um... thats not true. i compiled the source a while ago. heres a binary. works on 10.5 and 10.6 if on osx: http://megrimm.net/software/PeRColate-OSX-Intel-10.5/PeRColate-OSX-Intel-10.5.zip i have the sources + xcode project somewhere I think... i would have to look around... mark --- On Sat, 9/26/09, rene beekman wrote: > From: rene beekman > Subject: Re: [PD] Percolate > To: pd-list@iem.at > Date: Saturday, September 26, 2009, 2:14 AM > Jose, > > Since no one else has answered your question so far, and > since I had to find an answer to the same question only a > few weeks ago, this is what I know about the current state > of development of Percolate: > > You can find the different versions of Percolate at > http://www.music.columbia.edu/PeRColate/ > > From there, there is a link to a Pd version of Percolate by > Olaf Matthes. This version, however, is no longer available. > From what I've heard - I was not around when this happened - > Olaf seems to have decided to no longer develop for Pd after > a dispute with other developers. > Unfortunately, no one has stepped up to the plate to create > a new port. > > So it seems that right now you have two options; find a way > to do your project without the Percolate objects, or move to > Max/MSP ... > > Hope this helps. > > Rene > > > > > > > From: Jose Luis Santorcuato > > Subject: [PD] Percolate > > To: PD List > > Message-ID: > > <4345df630909241518w2a3b5dd3xcb5db24a89912...@mail.gmail.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > > Dear friends, well i am working with music and arduino > and i need the old > > library percolate... with objects like a bamboo~, > marimba~ etc... > > Can yours help me... > > > > Thanks a lot > > > > Jos? > > > ___ > Pd-list@iem.at > mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Percolate
I stand corrected :) Mark, thanks! This is great! Now, if someone could also point me to a Windoze version of Percolate for Pd, I'd be totally happy :) Rene BTW Mark, have you thought about dropping the Percolate developers a note to ask them to update their links? On Sep 26, 2009, at 18:12, pd-list-requ...@iem.at wrote: Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 05:29:53 -0700 (PDT) From: mark edward grimm Subject: Re: [PD] Percolate To: pd-list@iem.at Message-ID: <358216.94182...@web32407.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 So it seems that right now you have two options; find a way to do your project without the Percolate objects, or move to Max/MSP ... um... thats not true. i compiled the source a while ago. heres a binary. works on 10.5 and 10.6 if on osx: http://megrimm.net/software/PeRColate-OSX-Intel-10.5/PeRColate-OSX-Intel-10.5.zip i have the sources + xcode project somewhere I think... i would have to look around... mark ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Percolate
Or including it in Pd-extended!?!
~Kyle
On Sat, Sep 26, 2009 at 11:08 AM, rene beekman wrote:
> I stand corrected :)
> Mark, thanks! This is great!
>
> Now, if someone could also point me to a Windoze version of Percolate for
> Pd, I'd be totally happy :)
>
> Rene
>
> BTW Mark, have you thought about dropping the Percolate developers a note
> to ask them to update their links?
>
>
>
>
> On Sep 26, 2009, at 18:12, pd-list-requ...@iem.at wrote:
>
> Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 05:29:53 -0700 (PDT)
>> From: mark edward grimm
>> Subject: Re: [PD] Percolate
>> To: pd-list@iem.at
>> Message-ID: <358216.94182...@web32407.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>>
>> So it seems that right now you have two options; find a way
>>> to do your project without the Percolate objects, or move to
>>> Max/MSP ...
>>>
>>
>> um... thats not true. i compiled the source a while ago. heres a binary.
>> works on 10.5 and 10.6 if on osx:
>>
>>
>> http://megrimm.net/software/PeRColate-OSX-Intel-10.5/PeRColate-OSX-Intel-10.5.zip
>>
>> i have the sources + xcode project somewhere I think... i would have to
>> look around...
>>
>> mark
>>
>
>
> ___
> Pd-list@iem.at mailing list
> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
>
--
-
-
- --
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http://myspace.com/plenummusic
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Re: [PD] Percolate
> Or including it in Pd-extended!?! yeah that would be ideal! > BTW Mark, have you thought about dropping the Percolate > developers a note to ask them to update their links? ha... no :) m --- On Sat, 9/26/09, Kyle Klipowicz wrote: > From: Kyle Klipowicz > Subject: Re: [PD] Percolate > To: "rene beekman" , "Hans-Christoph Steiner" > > Cc: pd-list@iem.at > Date: Saturday, September 26, 2009, 12:21 PM > Or including it in Pd-extended!?! > > ~Kyle > > On Sat, Sep 26, 2009 at 11:08 AM, > rene beekman > wrote: > > I stand corrected :) > > Mark, thanks! This is great! > > > > Now, if someone could also point me to a Windoze version of > Percolate for Pd, I'd be totally happy :) > > > > Rene > > > > BTW Mark, have you thought about dropping the Percolate > developers a note to ask them to update their links? > > > > > > > > > > On Sep 26, 2009, at 18:12, pd-list-requ...@iem.at > wrote: > > > > > Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 05:29:53 -0700 (PDT) > > From: mark edward grimm > > Subject: Re: [PD] Percolate > > To: pd-list@iem.at > > Message-ID: <358216.94182...@web32407.mail.mud.yahoo.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > > > > So it seems that right now you have two options; find a > way > > to do your project without the Percolate objects, or move > to > > Max/MSP ... > > > > > um... thats not true. i compiled the source a while ago. > heres a binary. works on 10.5 and 10.6 if on osx: > > > > http://megrimm.net/software/PeRColate-OSX-Intel-10.5/PeRColate-OSX-Intel-10.5.zip > > > > i have the sources + xcode project somewhere I think... i > would have to look around... > > > > mark > > > > > > > ___ > > Pd-list@iem.at > mailing list > > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > > > > > -- > - > > - > - -- > http://plenum.tumblr.com > http://myspace.com/plenummusic > > > > -Inline Attachment Follows- > > ___ > Pd-list@iem.at > mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Percolate
Except the help files aren't very helpful for me. I can barely get sound out
of many of the objects. There isn't a very detailed account of what range
the inputs receive, or how to trigger sound events...
~Kyle
On Sat, Sep 26, 2009 at 12:48 PM, mark edward grimm wrote:
> > Or including it in Pd-extended!?!
>
> yeah that would be ideal!
>
> > BTW Mark, have you thought about dropping the Percolate
> > developers a note to ask them to update their links?
>
> ha... no
>
> :)
>
> m
>
>
>
>
>
> --- On Sat, 9/26/09, Kyle Klipowicz wrote:
>
> > From: Kyle Klipowicz
> > Subject: Re: [PD] Percolate
> > To: "rene beekman" , "Hans-Christoph Steiner" <
> h...@at.or.at>
> > Cc: pd-list@iem.at
> > Date: Saturday, September 26, 2009, 12:21 PM
> > Or including it in Pd-extended!?!
> >
> > ~Kyle
> >
> > On Sat, Sep 26, 2009 at 11:08 AM,
> > rene beekman
> > wrote:
> >
> > I stand corrected :)
> >
> > Mark, thanks! This is great!
> >
> >
> >
> > Now, if someone could also point me to a Windoze version of
> > Percolate for Pd, I'd be totally happy :)
> >
> >
> >
> > Rene
> >
> >
> >
> > BTW Mark, have you thought about dropping the Percolate
> > developers a note to ask them to update their links?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sep 26, 2009, at 18:12, pd-list-requ...@iem.at
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 05:29:53 -0700 (PDT)
> >
> > From: mark edward grimm
> >
> > Subject: Re: [PD] Percolate
> >
> > To: pd-list@iem.at
> >
> > Message-ID: <358216.94182...@web32407.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> >
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > So it seems that right now you have two options; find a
> > way
> >
> > to do your project without the Percolate objects, or move
> > to
> >
> > Max/MSP ...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > um... thats not true. i compiled the source a while ago.
> > heres a binary. works on 10.5 and 10.6 if on osx:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> http://megrimm.net/software/PeRColate-OSX-Intel-10.5/PeRColate-OSX-Intel-10.5.zip
> >
> >
> >
> > i have the sources + xcode project somewhere I think... i
> > would have to look around...
> >
> >
> >
> > mark
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> >
> > Pd-list@iem.at
> > mailing list
> >
> > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > -
> >
> > -
> > - --
> > http://plenum.tumblr.com
> > http://myspace.com/plenummusic
> >
> >
> >
> > -Inline Attachment Follows-
> >
> > ___
> > Pd-list@iem.at
> > mailing list
> > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
> >
>
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Re: [PD] Percolate
Friends thanks a lot, really, percolate is an excellente extension for pd...now... someboby have the source? i wanna compile to gnu/linux...for the folk... i use osx and ubuntu... in ubuntu pd fly... brothers... thanks again JOsé-Chile 2009/9/27 Kyle Klipowicz > Except the help files aren't very helpful for me. I can barely get sound > out of many of the objects. There isn't a very detailed account of what > range the inputs receive, or how to trigger sound events... > > ~Kyle > > > On Sat, Sep 26, 2009 at 12:48 PM, mark edward grimm wrote: > >> > Or including it in Pd-extended!?! >> >> yeah that would be ideal! >> >> > BTW Mark, have you thought about dropping the Percolate >> > developers a note to ask them to update their links? >> >> ha... no >> >> :) >> >> m >> >> >> >> >> >> --- On Sat, 9/26/09, Kyle Klipowicz wrote: >> >> > From: Kyle Klipowicz >> > Subject: Re: [PD] Percolate >> > To: "rene beekman" , "Hans-Christoph Steiner" < >> h...@at.or.at> >> > Cc: pd-list@iem.at >> > Date: Saturday, September 26, 2009, 12:21 PM >> > Or including it in Pd-extended!?! >> > >> > ~Kyle >> > >> > On Sat, Sep 26, 2009 at 11:08 AM, >> > rene beekman >> > wrote: >> > >> > I stand corrected :) >> > >> > Mark, thanks! This is great! >> > >> > >> > >> > Now, if someone could also point me to a Windoze version of >> > Percolate for Pd, I'd be totally happy :) >> > >> > >> > >> > Rene >> > >> > >> > >> > BTW Mark, have you thought about dropping the Percolate >> > developers a note to ask them to update their links? >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > On Sep 26, 2009, at 18:12, pd-list-requ...@iem.at >> > wrote: >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 05:29:53 -0700 (PDT) >> > >> > From: mark edward grimm >> > >> > Subject: Re: [PD] Percolate >> > >> > To: pd-list@iem.at >> > >> > Message-ID: <358216.94182...@web32407.mail.mud.yahoo.com> >> > >> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > So it seems that right now you have two options; find a >> > way >> > >> > to do your project without the Percolate objects, or move >> > to >> > >> > Max/MSP ... >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > um... thats not true. i compiled the source a while ago. >> > heres a binary. works on 10.5 and 10.6 if on osx: >> > >> > >> > >> > >> http://megrimm.net/software/PeRColate-OSX-Intel-10.5/PeRColate-OSX-Intel-10.5.zip >> > >> > >> > >> > i have the sources + xcode project somewhere I think... i >> > would have to look around... >> > >> > >> > >> > mark >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > ___ >> > >> > Pd-list@iem.at >> > mailing list >> > >> > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> >> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > - >> > >> > - >> > - -- >> > http://plenum.tumblr.com >> > http://myspace.com/plenummusic >> > >> > >> > >> > -Inline Attachment Follows- >> > >> > ___ >> > Pd-list@iem.at >> > mailing list >> > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> >> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >> > >> > > > > -- > - > > - > - -- > http://plenum.tumblr.com > http://myspace.com/plenummusic > > ___ > Pd-list@iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > > -- http://www.chilemigra.cl http://arselectronicachile.blogspot.com http://www.myspace.com/santorcuato ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Percolate
Can't because of the license, check the archives for details. Someone
could just put out binaries on puredata.info, IIRC. Then they can
easily be installed like this:
http://puredata.info/docs/faq/how-do-i-install-externals-and-help-files-with-pd-extended
.hc
On Sep 26, 2009, at 12:21 PM, Kyle Klipowicz wrote:
Or including it in Pd-extended!?!
~Kyle
On Sat, Sep 26, 2009 at 11:08 AM, rene beekman wrote:
I stand corrected :)
Mark, thanks! This is great!
Now, if someone could also point me to a Windoze version of
Percolate for Pd, I'd be totally happy :)
Rene
BTW Mark, have you thought about dropping the Percolate developers a
note to ask them to update their links?
On Sep 26, 2009, at 18:12, pd-list-requ...@iem.at wrote:
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 05:29:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: mark edward grimm
Subject: Re: [PD] Percolate
To: pd-list@iem.at
Message-ID: <358216.94182...@web32407.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
So it seems that right now you have two options; find a way
to do your project without the Percolate objects, or move to
Max/MSP ...
um... thats not true. i compiled the source a while ago. heres a
binary. works on 10.5 and 10.6 if on osx:
http://megrimm.net/software/PeRColate-OSX-Intel-10.5/PeRColate-OSX-Intel-10.5.zip
i have the sources + xcode project somewhere I think... i would have
to look around...
mark
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Re: [PD] Percolate
Wow, thanks Hans but is ugly new... is incredible...yes... i can put in osx... but my idea is compile in gnu... b...the license... well ...take this delay like an opportunity... do you know about similar? i dont wanna work with vst... you do it?...somebody??? Thanks a lot and this week i will send the pd video for Alexander... Cheers José Chile 2009/9/27 Hans-Christoph Steiner > > Can't because of the license, check the archives for details. Someone > could just put out binaries on puredata.info, IIRC. Then they can easily > be installed like this: > > > http://puredata.info/docs/faq/how-do-i-install-externals-and-help-files-with-pd-extended > > .hc > > On Sep 26, 2009, at 12:21 PM, Kyle Klipowicz wrote: > > Or including it in Pd-extended!?! > > ~Kyle > > On Sat, Sep 26, 2009 at 11:08 AM, rene beekman wrote: > >> I stand corrected :) >> Mark, thanks! This is great! >> >> Now, if someone could also point me to a Windoze version of Percolate for >> Pd, I'd be totally happy :) >> >> Rene >> >> BTW Mark, have you thought about dropping the Percolate developers a note >> to ask them to update their links? >> >> >> >> >> On Sep 26, 2009, at 18:12, pd-list-requ...@iem.at wrote: >> >> Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 05:29:53 -0700 (PDT) >>> From: mark edward grimm >>> Subject: Re: [PD] Percolate >>> To: pd-list@iem.at >>> Message-ID: <358216.94182...@web32407.mail.mud.yahoo.com> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 >>> >>> So it seems that right now you have two options; find a way >>>> to do your project without the Percolate objects, or move to >>>> Max/MSP ... >>>> >>> >>> um... thats not true. i compiled the source a while ago. heres a binary. >>> works on 10.5 and 10.6 if on osx: >>> >>> >>> http://megrimm.net/software/PeRColate-OSX-Intel-10.5/PeRColate-OSX-Intel-10.5.zip >>> >>> i have the sources + xcode project somewhere I think... i would have to >>> look around... >>> >>> mark >>> >> >> >> ___ >> Pd-list@iem.at mailing list >> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> >> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >> > > > > -- > - > > - > - -- > http://plenum.tumblr.com > http://myspace.com/plenummusic > > > > > > > > As we enjoy great advantages from inventions of others, we should be glad > of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours; and this we > should do freely and generously. - Benjamin Franklin > > > > ___ > Pd-list@iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > > -- http://www.chilemigra.cl http://arselectronicachile.blogspot.com http://www.myspace.com/santorcuato ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Percolate
found within my chaotic archive of crap, haven't tried to compile - give it a go! http://simplesuperlativ.es/PeRColate0.09-source.zip dmotd Jose Luis Santorcuato wrote: > Friends thanks a lot, really, percolate is an excellente extension for > pd...now... someboby have the source? i wanna compile to gnu/linux...for the > folk... i use osx and ubuntu... in ubuntu pd fly... brothers... thanks again > > > JOs -Chile > > 2009/9/27 Kyle Klipowicz > > Except the help files aren't very helpful for me. I can barely get sound > out of many of the objects. There isn't a very detailed account of what > range the inputs receive, or how to trigger sound events... > > ~Kyle > > > On Sat, Sep 26, 2009 at 12:48 PM, mark edward grimm > wrote: > > > Or including it in Pd-extended!?! > > yeah that would be ideal! > > > BTW Mark, have you thought about dropping the Percolate > > developers a note to ask them to update their links? > > ha... no > > :) > > m > > > > > > --- On Sat, 9/26/09, Kyle Klipowicz wrote: > > > From: Kyle Klipowicz > > Subject: Re: [PD] Percolate > > To: "rene beekman" , "Hans-Christoph Steiner" < > h...@at.or.at> > > Cc: pd-list@iem.at > > Date: Saturday, September 26, 2009, 12:21 PM > > Or including it in Pd-extended!?! > > > > ~Kyle > > > > On Sat, Sep 26, 2009 at 11:08 AM, > > rene beekman > > wrote: > > > > I stand corrected :) > > > > Mark, thanks! This is great! > > > > > > > > Now, if someone could also point me to a Windoze version of > > Percolate for Pd, I'd be totally happy :) > > > > > > > > Rene > > > > > > > > BTW Mark, have you thought about dropping the Percolate > > developers a note to ask them to update their links? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sep 26, 2009, at 18:12, pd-list-requ...@iem.at > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 05:29:53 -0700 (PDT) > > > > From: mark edward grimm > > > > Subject: Re: [PD] Percolate > > > > To: pd-list@iem.at > > > > Message-ID: <358216.94182...@web32407.mail.mud.yahoo.com> > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > > > > > > > > > So it seems that right now you have two options; find a > > way > > > > to do your project without the Percolate objects, or move > > to > > > > Max/MSP ... > > > > > > > > > > um... thats not true. i compiled the source a while ago. > > heres a binary. works on 10.5 and 10.6 if on osx: > > > > > > > > http://megrimm.net/software/PeRColate-OSX-Intel-10.5/ > PeRColate-OSX-Intel-10.5.zip > > > > > > > > i have the sources + xcode project somewhere I think... i > > would have to look around... > > > > > > > > mark > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > > > Pd-list@iem.at > > mailing list > > > > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/ > listinfo/pd-list > > > > > > > > > > -- > > - > > > > - > > - -- > > http://plenum.tumblr.com > > http://myspace.com/plenummusic > > > > > > > > -Inline Attachment Follows- > > > >
Re: [PD] Percolate
i'm just looking at the license now and i'm not sure that this is acutally a problem.. looks like an open style license.. not for resale, non-commerical educaton use only, must credit authors and distribute license. see attached. Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: > > Can't because of the license, check the archives for details. Someone could > just put out binaries on puredata.info, IIRC. Then they can easily be > installed like this: > > http://puredata.info/docs/faq/ > how-do-i-install-externals-and-help-files-with-pd-extended > > .hc > > On Sep 26, 2009, at 12:21 PM, Kyle Klipowicz wrote: > > > Or including it in Pd-extended!?! > > ~Kyle > > On Sat, Sep 26, 2009 at 11:08 AM, rene beekman wrote: > > I stand corrected :) > Mark, thanks! This is great! > > Now, if someone could also point me to a Windoze version of Percolate > for Pd, I'd be totally happy :) > > Rene > > BTW Mark, have you thought about dropping the Percolate developers a > note to ask them to update their links? > > > > > On Sep 26, 2009, at 18:12, pd-list-requ...@iem.at wrote: > > > Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 05:29:53 -0700 (PDT) > From: mark edward grimm > > Subject: Re: [PD] Percolate > To: pd-list@iem.at > Message-ID: <358216.94182...@web32407.mail.mud.yahoo.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > > So it seems that right now you have two options; find a way > to do your project without the Percolate objects, or move to > Max/MSP ... > > > um... thats not true. i compiled the source a while ago. heres a > binary. works on 10.5 and 10.6 if on osx: > > http://megrimm.net/software/PeRColate-OSX-Intel-10.5/ > PeRColate-OSX-Intel-10.5.zip > > i have the sources + xcode project somewhere I think... i would > have to look around... > > mark > > > > ___ > Pd-list@iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/ > listinfo/pd-list > > > > > -- > - > > - > - -- > http://plenum.tumblr.com > http://myspace.com/plenummusic > > > > > > > As we enjoy great advantages from inventions of others, we should be glad of > an > opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours; and this we should do > freely and generously. - Benjamin Franklin > > > ___ > Pd-list@iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list PeRColate for Pure Data version 0.09 Pd port made by Olaf Matthes help files ported by Martin Dupras PeRCOlate for MAX written by Dan Trueman and R. Luke DuBois By using this software you are agreeing to the software license at the end of this document. This software is copyright (c)2001 Dan Trueman / R. Luke DuBois / The Trustees of Columbia University in the City of New York. All rights reserved. System Requirements This is the Pure Data (PD) port of PeRColate 0.9b3. This release has been compiled and tested for use under PD 0.36. It may work under earlier versions as well. To use the examples the following externals are needed: ==~, comb~ (both part of zexy library). The distributions for MAX / Msp are available on the 'official' PeRColate web site (see below). Installation instructions Copy the PeRColate folder with all it's content into your PD folder. Copy the files from PeRColate_help to PD's doc\5.reference folder. Start PD with '-lib ..\PeRColate\percolate'. The PeRColate_source folder contains source code for the objects. These objects were compiled using MS VC++ 6.0. The 'PeRColate for PD' web page, from which these objects may be downloaded, is located at: http://www.akustische-kunst.org/puredata/percolate/ The official PeRColate web page can be found at: http://music.columbia.edu/PeRColate Please e-mail any bug reports or suggestions to Olaf Matthes at i...@akustische-kunst.de. Enjoy! License This version of PeRColate incorporates the same license as the original MAX version from CMC. The orriginal PeRColate Licence from the MAX version: License Agreement The Software is provided by Dan Trueman, R. Luke DuBois and the Computer
Re: [PD] Percolate
compiled and it works, here's an i686 binary: http://simplesuperlativ.es/PeRColate0.09-pd_linux.tar.gz (it also builds and runs on x86 with the fPIC flag) also, some of the PeRColate video objects (originally for nato) by R. Luke DuBois were ported to framestein (windows only) the full source is still available: http://pinktwins.com/disk/framestein/framestein032.zip see 'Plugins' folder, it'd be a bit of effort but maybe not sooo dificult to port ot Gem or pdp? or you could always use framestein! apparently there is an object named in rene beekman's honour. fun, ciao dmotd dmotd wrote: > found within my chaotic archive of crap, haven't tried > to compile - give it a go! > > http://simplesuperlativ.es/PeRColate0.09-source.zip > > dmotd > > Jose Luis Santorcuato wrote: > > Friends thanks a lot, really, percolate is an excellente extension for > > pd...now... someboby have the source? i wanna compile to gnu/linux...for the > > folk... i use osx and ubuntu... in ubuntu pd fly... brothers... thanks again > > > > > > JOs -Chile > > > > 2009/9/27 Kyle Klipowicz > > > > Except the help files aren't very helpful for me. I can barely get sound > > out of many of the objects. There isn't a very detailed account of what > > range the inputs receive, or how to trigger sound events... > > > > ~Kyle > > > > > > On Sat, Sep 26, 2009 at 12:48 PM, mark edward grimm > > wrote: > > > > > Or including it in Pd-extended!?! > > > > yeah that would be ideal! > > > > > BTW Mark, have you thought about dropping the Percolate > > > developers a note to ask them to update their links? > > > > ha... no > > > > :) > > > > m > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 9/26/09, Kyle Klipowicz wrote: > > > > > From: Kyle Klipowicz > > > Subject: Re: [PD] Percolate > > > To: "rene beekman" , "Hans-Christoph Steiner" < > > h...@at.or.at> > > > Cc: pd-list@iem.at > > > Date: Saturday, September 26, 2009, 12:21 PM > > > Or including it in Pd-extended!?! > > > > > > ~Kyle > > > > > > On Sat, Sep 26, 2009 at 11:08 AM, > > > rene beekman > > > wrote: > > > > > > I stand corrected :) > > > > > > Mark, thanks! This is great! > > > > > > > > > > > > Now, if someone could also point me to a Windoze version of > > > Percolate for Pd, I'd be totally happy :) > > > > > > > > > > > > Rene > > > > > > > > > > > > BTW Mark, have you thought about dropping the Percolate > > > developers a note to ask them to update their links? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sep 26, 2009, at 18:12, pd-list-requ...@iem.at > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 05:29:53 -0700 (PDT) > > > > > > From: mark edward grimm > > > > > > Subject: Re: [PD] Percolate > > > > > > To: pd-list@iem.at > > > > > > Message-ID: <358216.94182...@web32407.mail.mud.yahoo.com> > > > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So it seems that right now you have two options; find a > > > way > > > > > > to do your project without the Percolate objects, or move > > > to > > > > > > Max/MSP ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > um... thats not true. i compiled the source a while ago. > > > heres a binary. works on 10.5 and 10.6 if on osx: > > > > > > > > >
Re: [PD] Percolate
dmotd wrote: i'm just looking at the license now and i'm not sure that this is acutally a problem.. looks like an open style license.. not for resale, non-commerical educaton use only, must credit authors and distribute license. which sounds incompatible with GPL (which is what PdX is distributed under). mfgasdr IOhannes smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Percolate
IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote: > dmotd wrote: >> i'm just looking at the license now and i'm not sure that this is >> acutally a problem.. looks like an open style license.. not for resale, >> non-commerical educaton use only, must credit authors and distribute >> license. > > which sounds incompatible with GPL (which is what PdX is distributed under). ahh, right, i'd overlooked that it might be too restrictive.. thats too bad. could it still be added to the svn repository? dmotd ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Percolate
Hi Folk, is an excellent new, well this afternoon i will try to compile in my barbie netbook... ubuntu... i post the mission. Thanks for each one reply this post Best regards from Chile José 2009/9/28 dmotd > IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote: > > dmotd wrote: > >> i'm just looking at the license now and i'm not sure that this is > >> acutally a problem.. looks like an open style license.. not for resale, > >> non-commerical educaton use only, must credit authors and distribute > >> license. > > > > which sounds incompatible with GPL (which is what PdX is distributed > under). > > ahh, right, i'd overlooked that it might be too > restrictive.. thats too bad. could it still be added > to the svn repository? > > dmotd > > ___ > Pd-list@iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > -- http://www.chilemigra.cl http://arselectronicachile.blogspot.com http://www.myspace.com/santorcuato ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Percolate
On Sep 28, 2009, at 4:00 AM, dmotd wrote: IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote: dmotd wrote: i'm just looking at the license now and i'm not sure that this is acutally a problem.. looks like an open style license.. not for resale, non-commerical educaton use only, must credit authors and distribute license. which sounds incompatible with GPL (which is what PdX is distributed under). ahh, right, i'd overlooked that it might be too restrictive.. thats too bad. could it still be added to the svn repository? You'll have to check with Sourceforge. I think they require OSI- certified licenses. hc I have the audacity to believe that peoples everywhere can have three meals a day for their bodies, education and culture for their minds, and dignity, equality and freedom for their spirits. - Martin Luther King, Jr. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Percolate
Must be compatible with GPLv3 to be included in Pd-extended. non-
commerical is not GPL compatible.
.hc
On Sep 28, 2009, at 1:02 AM, dmotd wrote:
i'm just looking at the license now and i'm not sure
that this is acutally a problem.. looks like an open
style license.. not for resale, non-commerical
educaton use only, must credit authors and distribute
license.
see attached.
Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
Can't because of the license, check the archives for details.
Someone could
just put out binaries on puredata.info, IIRC. Then they can easily
be
installed like this:
http://puredata.info/docs/faq/
how-do-i-install-externals-and-help-files-with-pd-extended
.hc
On Sep 26, 2009, at 12:21 PM, Kyle Klipowicz wrote:
Or including it in Pd-extended!?!
~Kyle
On Sat, Sep 26, 2009 at 11:08 AM, rene beekman
wrote:
I stand corrected :)
Mark, thanks! This is great!
Now, if someone could also point me to a Windoze version of
Percolate
for Pd, I'd be totally happy :)
Rene
BTW Mark, have you thought about dropping the Percolate
developers a
note to ask them to update their links?
On Sep 26, 2009, at 18:12, pd-list-requ...@iem.at wrote:
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 05:29:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: mark edward grimm
Subject: Re: [PD] Percolate
To: pd-list@iem.at
Message-ID: <358216.94182...@web32407.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
So it seems that right now you have two options;
find a way
to do your project without the Percolate objects, or
move to
Max/MSP ...
um... thats not true. i compiled the source a while ago.
heres a
binary. works on 10.5 and 10.6 if on osx:
http://megrimm.net/software/PeRColate-OSX-Intel-10.5/
PeRColate-OSX-Intel-10.5.zip
i have the sources + xcode project somewhere I think...
i would
have to look around...
mark
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listinfo/pd-list
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As we enjoy great advantages from inventions of others, we should
be glad of an
opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours; and this we
should do
freely and generously. - Benjamin Franklin
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Re: [PD] Percolate
On Mon, 28 Sep 2009, dmotd wrote: i'm just looking at the license now and i'm not sure that this is acutally a problem.. looks like an open style license.. not for resale, non-commerical educaton use only, must credit authors and distribute license. GPL forbids any clauses about non-commercial, non-military, education-only, and any other clauses restricting the freedom to use. (section 7 out of 17) http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl.html But some other documents may be easier to interpret (but the following are about what is a free license, they aren't about GPL-compatibility per se). FSF's Free Software Definition lists four essential freedoms, the first one being: «The freedom to run the program, for any purpose». http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html OSI's Open Source Definition's sixth item (out of ten) states: «the license must not restrict anyone from making use of the program in a specific field of endeavor.» http://www.opensource.org/docs/definition.php I think that it's clear enough. What's more difficult to grasp is how all the different licenses interact with each other when you use or don't use plugins together... _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ... | Mathieu Bouchard, Montréal, Québec. téléphone: +1.514.383.3801___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] Percolate strange
Dear friends... in the last weeks i stay trying install percolate library... i can put the externals and run Pd, but when i like startup path or open the prefernces the PD dont respond... the preferences panel no open...midi... audio... Well Cheers from Chile José -- http://www.chilemigra.cl http://arselectronicachile.blogspot.com http://www.myspace.com/santorcuato ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] Percolate for Pd
Dear all, Sorry if this has been discussed ad nauseam, but I've googled everything I can think of and have not been able to find Percolate for Pd. Does anyone know if there is a working version of the Percolate objects for Pd? I'm using Pd-Extended (0.40.3) on OSX (10.5.5). Thanks in advance, Mitch http://home.lagrange.edu/mturner/ ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Percolate strange
Jose Luis Santorcuato wrote: > Dear friends... in the last weeks i stay trying install percolate > library... i can put the externals and run Pd, but when i like startup > path or open the prefernces the PD dont respond... the preferences panel > no open...midi... audio... > no idea, but i guess it might help if you reported the versions of Pd (and percolate; but this hasn't changed a lot for ages) f gamdrs IOhannes signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Percolate for PureData
Hallo, marius schebella hat gesagt: // marius schebella wrote: > I think the project is now maintained by guenter geiger and goes under > the name stk. STK is a library written by Perry Cook, Gary P. Scavone and probably others at CCRMA: http://ccrma.stanford.edu/software/stk/ It includes some example instruments, mostly physical modelling stuff like marimba or flute, but also some FM or sample based instruments. These example instruments have been implemented in Pd a long time ago by Guenther as part of the ggee collection. Flext also has a STK-binding so it's easy to make flext objects out of the STK classes. PerColate contains some of these STK instruments as well. Additionally it has some unique objects like munger~ for granular synthesis. There were or still are license issues prohibiting distribution of some PerColate objects - Ico Bukvic is/was working on sorting these out. He already published munger~ for Pd, available e.g. here: http://ico.bukvic.net/Max/ The rest of PeRColate AFAIK may still be non-free software. To get the source, I would suggest to contact its authors: http://www.music.columbia.edu/PeRColate/ Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org__ ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Percolate for PureData
frank, as so often I have to say thanks for the clarification. i have to commit that my answer was more than vague... marius. Frank Barknecht wrote: > Hallo, > marius schebella hat gesagt: // marius schebella wrote: > >> I think the project is now maintained by guenter geiger and goes under >> the name stk. > > STK is a library written by Perry Cook, Gary P. Scavone and probably > others at CCRMA: http://ccrma.stanford.edu/software/stk/ > > It includes some example instruments, mostly physical modelling stuff > like marimba or flute, but also some FM or sample based instruments. > These example instruments have been implemented in Pd a long time ago > by Guenther as part of the ggee collection. Flext also has a > STK-binding so it's easy to make flext objects out of the STK classes. > > PerColate contains some of these STK instruments as well. Additionally > it has some unique objects like munger~ for granular synthesis. There > were or still are license issues prohibiting distribution of some > PerColate objects - Ico Bukvic is/was working on sorting these out. > He already published munger~ for Pd, available e.g. here: > http://ico.bukvic.net/Max/ > > The rest of PeRColate AFAIK may still be non-free software. To get the > source, I would suggest to contact its authors: > http://www.music.columbia.edu/PeRColate/ > > Ciao ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Percolate for Pd
search the pd forum, someone posted a .zip of it a while back i think. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Percolate for Pd
Well, of course, I did search before I asked. I still could not find it. That's when I turned to this list. Thanks for your time, Mitch On Dec 10, 2008, at 11:55 PM, hard off wrote: > search the pd forum, someone posted a .zip of it a while back i think. > > ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Percolate for Pd
you searched the pd forum, and you didn't find 'percolate' ?? i can't believe that. you will have to login to be able to download the .zip files. they are about 4 posts down this thread: http://puredata.hurleur.com/sujet-619-port-percolate ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Percolate for Pd
John, I was able to get Percolate working on a MacBookPro running OS 10.5.5 and Pd-Extended 0.40.3. The way I was able to do this involved compiling from source. The required a few steps outlined below. I'm not absolutely sure my changes are the best way to do things. But it worked so I guess its an ok way to do it. 1) I got the latest version of the Developers Tools (the ones for OS10.5). Then I downloaded the source version of PeRColate discussed here (I had to login in order to see the attachments): http://puredata.hurleur.com/sujet-619-port-percolate Now I had to edit the Makefile that came in the PeRColate_source folder. (I've pasted in the Makefile below.) 2) I made changes to the "current" line, so that it read "current: pd_darwin". 3) I removed all of the lines dealing with Windows (might be an unnecessary step). 4) Down in the MAC OS X section, I changed the "PD=" line to point to my version of pd. PD = /Applications/Pd-extended.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd 5) I also changed "MACOSXINCLUDE" line to point to the include folder inside my version of Pd-Extended. MACOSXINCLUDE = -I _headers -I /Applications/Pd-extended.app/Contents/ Resources/include/ 6) Now in Terminal, I "cd"ed over to the "PeRColate_source" directory and ran the "make" command. It compiled just fine (after multiple attempts and much editing of the Makefile). 7) Now I opened the Pd-Extended application (CTRL-Click and select "open package contents"). 8) I placed the entire PeRColate folder inside the "extras" and copied the percolate.pd_darwin file to: Pd-extended/Contents/Resources/extra/ copied the PeRColate_help into: Pd-extended/Contents/Resources/doc/5.reference/ I opened Pd-Extended application and set the library to load on start up. Pd-extended>Preferences>Startup I re-started Pd and all was well. Hope this helps out, Mitch Here is the Makefile I ended up with: #Begin_Makefile- NAME=percolate CSYM=percolate current: pd_darwin # --- LINUX i386 --- pd_linux: $(NAME).pd_linux .SUFFIXES: .pd_linux PATH1=1.\ Physical\ Models PATH2=2.\ Modal\ Synthesis PATH3=3.\ PhISM PATH4=4.\ MaxGens PATH5=5.\ SID PATH6=6.\ Random\ DSP LINUX_SOURCES = percolate.c \ _source/stk.c \ $(PATH1)/blotar/blotar~.c \ $(PATH1)/bowed/bowed~.c \ $(PATH1)/bowed\ bar/bowedbar~.c \ $(PATH1)/brass/brass~.c \ $(PATH1)/clarinet/clar~.c \ $(PATH1)/flute/flute~.c \ $(PATH1)/mandolin/mandolin~.c \ $(PATH1)/plucked/plucked~.c \ $(PATH2)/agogo/agogo~.c \ $(PATH2)/marimba/marimba~.c \ $(PATH2)/vibraphone/vibraphone~.c \ $(PATH3)/bamboo/bamboo~.c \ $(PATH3)/cabasa/cabasa~.c \ $(PATH3)/meta-shaker/metashake~.c \ $(PATH3)/sekere/sekere~.c \ $(PATH3)/sleigh\ bells/sleigh~.c\ $(PATH3)/shaker/shaker~.c \ $(PATH3)/guiro/guiro~.c \ $(PATH3)/tamb/tamb~.c \ $(PATH3)/wuter/wuter~.c \ $(PATH4)/gen10/gen10.c \ $(PATH4)/gen17/gen17.c \ $(PATH4)/gen20/gen20.c \ $(PATH4)/gen24/gen24.c \ $(PATH4)/gen25/gen25.c \ $(PATH4)/gen5/gen5.c\ $(PATH4)/gen7/gen7.c\ $(PATH4)/gen9/gen9.c\ $(PATH5)/absmax~/absmax~.c \ $(PATH5)/absmin~/absmin~.c \ $(PATH5)/chase~/chase~.c\ $(PATH5)/escal~/escalator~.c\ $(PATH5)/flip~/flip~.c \ $(PATH5)/jitter~/jitter~.c \ $(PATH5)/klutz~/klutz~.c\ $(PATH5)/random~/random~.c \ $(PATH5)/terrain~/terrain~.c\ $(PATH5)/waffle~/waffle~.c \ $(PATH5)/weave~/weave~.c\ $(PATH6)/dcblock/dcblock~.c \ $(PATH6)/gQ/gQ~.c \ $(PATH6)/munger/munger~.c \ $(PATH6)/scrubber/scrub~.c LINUX_OBJECTS = $(LINUX_SOURCES:.c=.o) LINUX_OBJECTS2 = percolate.o\ _source/stk.o
Re: [PD] Percolate for Pd
One note on this, it would be much better to put the files into ~/ Library/Pd or /Library/Pd than into the Pd-extended.app. That way percolate will still be there after you upgrade. .hc On Dec 11, 2008, at 6:15 PM, Mitchell Turner wrote: John, I was able to get Percolate working on a MacBookPro running OS 10.5.5 and Pd-Extended 0.40.3. The way I was able to do this involved compiling from source. The required a few steps outlined below. I'm not absolutely sure my changes are the best way to do things. But it worked so I guess its an ok way to do it. 1) I got the latest version of the Developers Tools (the ones for OS10.5). Then I downloaded the source version of PeRColate discussed here (I had to login in order to see the attachments): http://puredata.hurleur.com/sujet-619-port-percolate Now I had to edit the Makefile that came in the PeRColate_source folder. (I've pasted in the Makefile below.) 2) I made changes to the "current" line, so that it read "current: pd_darwin". 3) I removed all of the lines dealing with Windows (might be an unnecessary step). 4) Down in the MAC OS X section, I changed the "PD=" line to point to my version of pd. PD = /Applications/Pd-extended.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd 5) I also changed "MACOSXINCLUDE" line to point to the include folder inside my version of Pd-Extended. MACOSXINCLUDE = -I _headers -I /Applications/Pd-extended.app/ Contents/Resources/include/ 6) Now in Terminal, I "cd"ed over to the "PeRColate_source" directory and ran the "make" command. It compiled just fine (after multiple attempts and much editing of the Makefile). 7) Now I opened the Pd-Extended application (CTRL-Click and select "open package contents"). 8) I placed the entire PeRColate folder inside the "extras" and copied the percolate.pd_darwin file to: Pd-extended/Contents/Resources/extra/ copied the PeRColate_help into: Pd-extended/Contents/Resources/doc/5.reference/ I opened Pd-Extended application and set the library to load on start up. Pd-extended>Preferences>Startup I re-started Pd and all was well. Hope this helps out, Mitch Here is the Makefile I ended up with: #Begin_Makefile- NAME=percolate CSYM=percolate current: pd_darwin # --- LINUX i386 --- pd_linux: $(NAME).pd_linux .SUFFIXES: .pd_linux PATH1=1.\ Physical\ Models PATH2=2.\ Modal\ Synthesis PATH3=3.\ PhISM PATH4=4.\ MaxGens PATH5=5.\ SID PATH6=6.\ Random\ DSP LINUX_SOURCES = percolate.c \ _source/stk.c \ $(PATH1)/blotar/blotar~.c \ $(PATH1)/bowed/bowed~.c \ $(PATH1)/bowed\ bar/bowedbar~.c \ $(PATH1)/brass/brass~.c \ $(PATH1)/clarinet/clar~.c \ $(PATH1)/flute/flute~.c \ $(PATH1)/mandolin/mandolin~.c \ $(PATH1)/plucked/plucked~.c \ $(PATH2)/agogo/agogo~.c \ $(PATH2)/marimba/marimba~.c \ $(PATH2)/vibraphone/vibraphone~.c \ $(PATH3)/bamboo/bamboo~.c \ $(PATH3)/cabasa/cabasa~.c \ $(PATH3)/meta-shaker/metashake~.c \ $(PATH3)/sekere/sekere~.c \ $(PATH3)/sleigh\ bells/sleigh~.c\ $(PATH3)/shaker/shaker~.c \ $(PATH3)/guiro/guiro~.c \ $(PATH3)/tamb/tamb~.c \ $(PATH3)/wuter/wuter~.c \ $(PATH4)/gen10/gen10.c \ $(PATH4)/gen17/gen17.c \ $(PATH4)/gen20/gen20.c \ $(PATH4)/gen24/gen24.c \ $(PATH4)/gen25/gen25.c \ $(PATH4)/gen5/gen5.c\ $(PATH4)/gen7/gen7.c\ $(PATH4)/gen9/gen9.c\ $(PATH5)/absmax~/absmax~.c \ $(PATH5)/absmin~/absmin~.c \ $(PATH5)/chase~/chase~.c\ $(PATH5)/escal~/escalator~.c\ $(PATH5)/flip~/flip~.c \ $(PATH5)/jitter~/jitter~.c \ $(PATH5)/klutz~/klutz~.c\ $(PATH5)/random~/random~.c \ $(PATH5)/terrain~/terrain~.c\ $(PATH5)/waffle~/waffle~.c \ $(PATH5)/weave~/weave~.c\ $(PATH6)/dcblock/dcblock~.c \ $(PATH6)/gQ/gQ~.c
Re: [PD] Percolate for Pd
That's an excellent idea. Thanks, I'll do it. Mitch On Dec 11, 2008, at 6:56 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: One note on this, it would be much better to put the files into ~/ Library/Pd or /Library/Pd than into the Pd-extended.app. That way percolate will still be there after you upgrade. .hc On Dec 11, 2008, at 6:15 PM, Mitchell Turner wrote: John, I was able to get Percolate working on a MacBookPro running OS 10.5.5 and Pd-Extended 0.40.3. The way I was able to do this involved compiling from source. The required a few steps outlined below. I'm not absolutely sure my changes are the best way to do things. But it worked so I guess its an ok way to do it. 1) I got the latest version of the Developers Tools (the ones for OS10.5). Then I downloaded the source version of PeRColate discussed here (I had to login in order to see the attachments): http://puredata.hurleur.com/sujet-619-port-percolate Now I had to edit the Makefile that came in the PeRColate_source folder. (I've pasted in the Makefile below.) 2) I made changes to the "current" line, so that it read "current: pd_darwin". 3) I removed all of the lines dealing with Windows (might be an unnecessary step). 4) Down in the MAC OS X section, I changed the "PD=" line to point to my version of pd. PD = /Applications/Pd-extended.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd 5) I also changed "MACOSXINCLUDE" line to point to the include folder inside my version of Pd-Extended. MACOSXINCLUDE = -I _headers -I /Applications/Pd-extended.app/ Contents/Resources/include/ 6) Now in Terminal, I "cd"ed over to the "PeRColate_source" directory and ran the "make" command. It compiled just fine (after multiple attempts and much editing of the Makefile). 7) Now I opened the Pd-Extended application (CTRL-Click and select "open package contents"). 8) I placed the entire PeRColate folder inside the "extras" and copied the percolate.pd_darwin file to: Pd-extended/Contents/Resources/extra/ copied the PeRColate_help into: Pd-extended/Contents/Resources/doc/5.reference/ I opened Pd-Extended application and set the library to load on start up. Pd-extended>Preferences>Startup I re-started Pd and all was well. Hope this helps out, Mitch Here is the Makefile I ended up with: #Begin_Makefile- NAME=percolate CSYM=percolate current: pd_darwin # --- LINUX i386 --- pd_linux: $(NAME).pd_linux .SUFFIXES: .pd_linux PATH1=1.\ Physical\ Models PATH2=2.\ Modal\ Synthesis PATH3=3.\ PhISM PATH4=4.\ MaxGens PATH5=5.\ SID PATH6=6.\ Random\ DSP LINUX_SOURCES = percolate.c \ _source/stk.c \ $(PATH1)/blotar/blotar~.c \ $(PATH1)/bowed/bowed~.c \ $(PATH1)/bowed\ bar/bowedbar~.c \ $(PATH1)/brass/brass~.c \ $(PATH1)/clarinet/clar~.c \ $(PATH1)/flute/flute~.c \ $(PATH1)/mandolin/mandolin~.c \ $(PATH1)/plucked/plucked~.c \ $(PATH2)/agogo/agogo~.c \ $(PATH2)/marimba/marimba~.c \ $(PATH2)/vibraphone/vibraphone~.c \ $(PATH3)/bamboo/bamboo~.c \ $(PATH3)/cabasa/cabasa~.c \ $(PATH3)/meta-shaker/metashake~.c \ $(PATH3)/sekere/sekere~.c \ $(PATH3)/sleigh\ bells/sleigh~.c\ $(PATH3)/shaker/shaker~.c \ $(PATH3)/guiro/guiro~.c \ $(PATH3)/tamb/tamb~.c \ $(PATH3)/wuter/wuter~.c \ $(PATH4)/gen10/gen10.c \ $(PATH4)/gen17/gen17.c \ $(PATH4)/gen20/gen20.c \ $(PATH4)/gen24/gen24.c \ $(PATH4)/gen25/gen25.c \ $(PATH4)/gen5/gen5.c\ $(PATH4)/gen7/gen7.c\ $(PATH4)/gen9/gen9.c\ $(PATH5)/absmax~/absmax~.c \ $(PATH5)/absmin~/absmin~.c \ $(PATH5)/chase~/chase~.c\ $(PATH5)/escal~/escalator~.c\ $(PATH5)/flip~/flip~.c \ $(PATH5)/jitter~/jitter~.c \ $(PATH5)/klutz~/klutz~.c\ $(PATH5)/random~/random~.c \ $(PATH5)/terrain~/terrain~.c\ $(PATH5)/waffle~/waffle~.c \ $(PATH5)/weave~/weave~.c
Re: [PD] Percolate for Pd
Hi Mitchell, list, I also compiled percolate on my Mac today, and it was a lovely experience. One thing I did differently, that some people may find useful: Rather than removing the windows section from the makefile, I specified Mac like this: $ make pd_darwin btw, I looked at your website, and you have some lovely things there. You should credit your performers, though; your cellist is very fine! Collin ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
