Re: [PD] [midifile]

[IOhannes m zmölnig]

On 2/10/22 23:12, Peter P. wrote:

* IOhannes m zmoelnig  [2022-02-10 13:36]:


i figure your argument is, that most of these have to learn Pd from scratch
anyhow and will eventually come to the "use [trigger]" section in the
documentation,


Just out of curiosity, are you referring to
2.3.2. depth first message passing
in http://msp.ucsd.edu/Pd_documentation/x2.htm#s3
?


no idea, i haven't read the documentation in a long time I-)



Or is there another text about this?



i was pretty sure there was something in the examples, and indeed 
2.control.examples/03.connections.pd is what i meant.


gfmy<
IOhannes


OpenPGP_signature
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
___
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

Re: [PD] [PD-announce] [vstplugin~] 0.5.4 bug fix release!

[Christof Ressi]

BTW, [vstplugin~] can now be compiled for Apple M1, with a plugin bridge 
for 64-bit Intel plugins!


Unfortunately, I don't have access to an M1 (yet), so I couldn't really 
test it myself. One kind soul has done it for me and said that it seemed 
to work, but I would love to hear more reports!


On 10.02.2022 23:07, Christof Ressi wrote:

Hi,

I am happy to announce a new bug fix release for [vstplugin~] - a Pd 
external for hosting VST2 and VST3 plugins on Windows, macOS and Linux.


It is available on Deken (search for "vstplugin~"). Please upgrade!

Here is the full change log: https://git.iem.at/pd/vstplugin/-/releases

Please report any issues at https://git.iem.at/pd/vstplugin/-/issues

Have fun!

Christof



___
Pd-announce mailing list
pd-annou...@lists.iem.at
https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-announce

___
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list




___
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

[PD] [PD-announce] [vstplugin~] 0.5.4 bug fix release!

[Christof Ressi]

Hi,

I am happy to announce a new bug fix release for [vstplugin~] - a Pd 
external for hosting VST2 and VST3 plugins on Windows, macOS and Linux.


It is available on Deken (search for "vstplugin~"). Please upgrade!

Here is the full change log: https://git.iem.at/pd/vstplugin/-/releases

Please report any issues at https://git.iem.at/pd/vstplugin/-/issues

Have fun!

Christof



___
Pd-announce mailing list
pd-annou...@lists.iem.at
https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-announce

___
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

Re: [PD] fan-out

[Johnny Mauser via Pd-list]

Wow, triggerize I didn't know, and its super cool!

> Am 10.02.2022 um 14:58 schrieb IOhannes m zmoelnig :
> 
> 
> hi.
> 
> it would be super-cool if you could change the subject to something 
> meaningful before replying to a digest mail.
> 
> On 2/10/22 14:39, Samuel Burt wrote:
>> Having used Pd for two decades, this still catches me occasionally. I was
> 
> that's the reason why i think that statements like "Fanning out to cold 
> control inlets is perfectly fine" and "I also admit to using fanning when I 
> know order isn't as important for that case" are problematic.
> not because they are wrong (they are objectively correct), but because they 
> encourage bad habits which are hard to come by.
> 
> 
>> only able to debug the problem because I knew this could be an issue. Guess
>> the UI doesn't allow for some kind of subtle indication that you've fanned
>> connections from an outlet. Would be nice though if a little "x2", "x3",
>> and "x4" would pop up next to your mouse cursor when you are making a
>> connection and mouse over the next inlet. 
> 
> dunno.
> if you are currently creating a fan-out you are hopefully aware that you are 
> doing just that (i think it's *really* hard to not notice that an outlet 
> already has a connection going out).
> so the problem is not to make people aware that they are fanning out, but to 
> make people aware that this might introduce message ordering problems.
> 
> in the meantime, use triggerize (Ctrl+a Ctrl+t) to resolve all your fan-outs.
> 
> gfmkdf
> IOhannes
> ___
> Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list
> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list




___
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

Re: [PD] [midifile]

[Peter P.]

* IOhannes m zmoelnig  [2022-02-10 13:36]:
> On 2/10/22 12:53, Dan Wilcox wrote:
> > I feel like often these problems also come from people trying Pd out after 
> > being more familiar with Max. Perhaps it would be good if Pd included a 
> > mini "Pd for Max users" guide which starts with execution order differences,
> 
> hmm.
> i'd prefer a "tip-of-the-day".
> order of execution is important enough that everybody should be aware of it,
> whether they come from max, , csound or out of the blue.
> 
> i figure your argument is, that most of these have to learn Pd from scratch
> anyhow and will eventually come to the "use [trigger]" section in the
> documentation, 

Just out of curiosity, are you referring to
2.3.2. depth first message passing 
in http://msp.ucsd.edu/Pd_documentation/x2.htm#s3
?

Or is there another text about this?

cheersz, P



___
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

Re: [PD] Tip of the Day [was] Re: [midifile]

[Fede Camara Halac]

+1
I also think it would be nice to encourage users to submit their own tips to 
this list as in: “click here to submit your tip of the day”. 


fdch.github.io

> On Feb 10, 2022, at 2:50 PM, Julian Brooks  wrote:
> 
> 
> +1 on this
> I still find things out re Pd that elicit a facepalm/no-way(you can do 
> _that_) moment.
> Think we all get stuck in our ways too so little tips/snippets/patterns (or 
> known anti-patterns) would be lovely.
> 
> All best,
> J
> 
>> On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 at 12:37, IOhannes m zmoelnig  wrote:
>> On 2/10/22 12:53, Dan Wilcox wrote:
>> > I feel like often these problems also come from people trying Pd out after 
>> > being more familiar with Max. Perhaps it would be good if Pd included a 
>> > mini "Pd for Max users" guide which starts with execution order 
>> > differences,
>> 
>> hmm.
>> i'd prefer a "tip-of-the-day".
>> order of execution is important enough that everybody should be aware of 
>> it, whether they come from max, , csound or out of the blue.
>> 
>> i figure your argument is, that most of these have to learn Pd from 
>> scratch anyhow and will eventually come to the "use [trigger]" section 
>> in the documentation, whereas the max users would just dive into it (as 
>> Pd has been sold to them as something you can use your Max-skills with 
>> without having to pay the license).
>> 
>> my argument is that people who find tips-of-the-day useful are not power 
>> users yet and as such an occasional reminder won't hurt.
>> 
>> gfdmas
>> IOhannes
>> 
>> ___
>> Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list
>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
>> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
> ___
> Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list
> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
___
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

[PD] Manual reply for list digests (was Re: Pd-list Digest, Vol 203, Issue 12)

[Dan Wilcox]

If you are using Apple Mail, as I am, it doesn't natively handle Mailman digest 
messages from the list. If you hit reply, it then replies to the *entire* 
digest ala "Re: P-List Digest, Vol..." and thus creates a new thread instead of 
building upon the previous by using the same subject line.

What I generally try to do in Apple Mail is:

1. select the part of the digest I wish to reply to by drag selecting the text
2. hit reply
3. copy the subject line from the individual message in I'm replying to in the 
digest email body & replace the subject line in the new message
4. adjust the To: line as needed, copy paste the name/email address to whom I 
want to reply to directly and move the Pd-list to CC, as needed

> On Feb 10, 2022, at 6:37 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2022 12:37:34 -0500
> From: Samuel Burt  >
> To: Pd-list mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>>
> Subject: Re: [PD]  ?fan-out (was Re: Pd-list Digest, Vol 203, Issue
>   12)
> Message-ID:
>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Sorry about the bad subject. Don't post too regularly and not sure the best
> way to reply to a thread here. Guess it's just reply, change subject,
> delete irrelevant parts of the thread. I do appreciate your patience and
> continued conversation.


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika 
danomatika.com 
robotcowboy.com 



___
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

[PD] Tip of the Day [was] Re: [midifile]

[Julian Brooks]

+1 on this
I still find things out re Pd that elicit a facepalm/no-way(you can do
_that_) moment.
Think we all get stuck in our ways too so little tips/snippets/patterns (or
known anti-patterns) would be lovely.

All best,
J

On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 at 12:37, IOhannes m zmoelnig  wrote:

> On 2/10/22 12:53, Dan Wilcox wrote:
> > I feel like often these problems also come from people trying Pd out
> after being more familiar with Max. Perhaps it would be good if Pd included
> a mini "Pd for Max users" guide which starts with execution order
> differences,
>
> hmm.
> i'd prefer a "tip-of-the-day".
> order of execution is important enough that everybody should be aware of
> it, whether they come from max, , csound or out of the blue.
>
> i figure your argument is, that most of these have to learn Pd from
> scratch anyhow and will eventually come to the "use [trigger]" section
> in the documentation, whereas the max users would just dive into it (as
> Pd has been sold to them as something you can use your Max-skills with
> without having to pay the license).
>
> my argument is that people who find tips-of-the-day useful are not power
> users yet and as such an occasional reminder won't hurt.
>
> gfdmas
> IOhannes
>
> ___
> Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list
> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
>
___
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

Re: [PD] ​fan-out (was Re: Pd-list Digest, Vol 203, Issue 12)

[Samuel Burt]

Sorry about the bad subject. Don't post too regularly and not sure the best
way to reply to a thread here. Guess it's just reply, change subject,
delete irrelevant parts of the thread. I do appreciate your patience and
continued conversation.

An even better feature would be to hover over an outlet and see the
connected inlets and/or cables highlighted. I generally make neat patches
that are easy to follow, but even with neat patches there can be a lot of
crossed cables. I imagine implementing this would be even more difficult.
Is Pd's GUI kept really simple because it's difficult to implement new
features or because it's important to keep a low impact on the cpu?

IOhannes, I didn't even know you could connect an inlet-outlet pair twice.
What is the effect? Does it send the data twice at control rate and does is
it additive with signals?

Sam




> --
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2022 14:58:37 +0100
> From: IOhannes m zmoelnig 
> To: pd-list@lists.iem.at
> Subject: [PD] fan-out (was Re:  Pd-list Digest, Vol 203, Issue 12)
> Message-ID: <47069476-79c9-d40c-1069-6f71aba06...@iem.at>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
>
>
> hi.
>
> it would be super-cool if you could change the subject to something
> meaningful before replying to a digest mail.
>
> On 2/10/22 14:39, Samuel Burt wrote:
> > Having used Pd for two decades, this still catches me occasionally. I was
>
> that's the reason why i think that statements like "Fanning out to cold
> control inlets is perfectly fine" and "I also admit to using fanning
> when I know order isn't as important for that case" are problematic.
> not because they are wrong (they are objectively correct), but because
> they encourage bad habits which are hard to come by.
>
>
> > only able to debug the problem because I knew this could be an issue.
> Guess
> > the UI doesn't allow for some kind of subtle indication that you've
> fanned
> > connections from an outlet. Would be nice though if a little "x2", "x3",
> > and "x4" would pop up next to your mouse cursor when you are making a
> > connection and mouse over the next inlet.
>
> dunno.
> if you are currently creating a fan-out you are hopefully aware that you
> are doing just that (i think it's *really* hard to not notice that an
> outlet already has a connection going out).
> so the problem is not to make people aware that they are fanning out,
> but to make people aware that this might introduce message ordering
> problems.
>
> in the meantime, use triggerize (Ctrl+a Ctrl+t) to resolve all your
> fan-outs.
>
> gfmkdf
> IOhannes
> -- next part --
> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
> Name: OpenPGP_signature
> Type: application/pgp-signature
> Size: 840 bytes
> Desc: OpenPGP digital signature
> URL: <
> http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/attachments/20220210/a0accc47/attachment-0001.sig
> >
>
> --
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2022 15:00:48 +0100
> From: IOhannes m zmoelnig 
> To: pd-list@lists.iem.at
> Subject: Re: [PD] [midifile]
> Message-ID: <31c53131-75de-c0b9-bcaa-d4260d416...@iem.at>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
>
> On 2/10/22 10:30, Roman Haefeli wrote:
> > 2) I believe it's more valuable if people do not fanning connections
> > because they understand their implications rather than because a
> > message tells them to avoid them.
>
> but maybe they can be made aware of the implications if they were made
> explicit.
>
> >
> > 3) I'm personally not so fond of the idea of giving people patching
> > advice.
>
> i understand that.
>
> on a related note:
> since Pd-0.52 it is no longer possible to connect a single outlet to
> single inlet twice.
> after reading this thread , i wonder whether this was premature and
> whether we should undo that change.
>
> gfmasdr
> IOhannes
> -- next part --
> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
> Name: OpenPGP_signature
> Type: application/pgp-signature
> Size: 840 bytes
> Desc: OpenPGP digital signature
> URL: <
> http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/attachments/20220210/e1cd7a13/attachment.sig
> >
>
> --
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> ___
> Pd-list mailing list
> Pd-list@lists.iem.at
> to manage your subscription (including un-subscription) see
> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
>
>
> --
>
> End of Pd-list Digest, Vol 203, Issue 14
> 
>
___
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

[PD] enforcing good practice (was: [midifile])

[Roman Haefeli]

On Thu, 2022-02-10 at 15:00 +0100, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote:
> 
> on a related note:
> since Pd-0.52 it is no longer possible to connect a single outlet to 
> single inlet twice.
> after reading this thread , i wonder whether this was premature and 
> whether we should undo that change.

Can you elaborate? 

Not sure if I rephrase that correctly, but I thought Pd is following a
paradigm of "the patch is what you see". By solely looking at the
patch, you understand its initial state and its mechanics. Having
double connections clearly breaks that. I'd assume double connections
happen always by mistake and they cannot be distinguished from single
connections. I think it's a good thing that they are suppressed now.

Roman



signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part
___
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

[PD] anti patterns (was: [midifile])

[Roman Haefeli]

On Thu, 2022-02-10 at 10:30 +0100, Roman Haefeli wrote:
> 3) I'm personally not so fond of the idea of giving people patching
> advice.

Let me rewrite that to 'unsolicited patching advice'.

I was the other day stumbling across a not-so-trivial-to-resolve bug.
The problem turned out to be a [loadbang] from an abstraction
initializing stuff in the parent patch that again initialized stuff in
other abstractions. Because there is undefined order among the
abstractions' [loadbang]s, the other abstraction received a message
before it was ready to do so.

Although very similar to the fanning outlet connections anti pattern,
this (loadbang-with-outside-effect-in-abstraction) might be a less
known one. 

I'm curious what other anti patterns people learned to avoid during
their patching career. 


Roman 


signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part
___
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

Re: [PD] [midifile]

[IOhannes m zmoelnig]

On 2/10/22 10:30, Roman Haefeli wrote:

2) I believe it's more valuable if people do not fanning connections
because they understand their implications rather than because a
message tells them to avoid them.


but maybe they can be made aware of the implications if they were made 
explicit.




3) I'm personally not so fond of the idea of giving people patching
advice.


i understand that.

on a related note:
since Pd-0.52 it is no longer possible to connect a single outlet to 
single inlet twice.
after reading this thread , i wonder whether this was premature and 
whether we should undo that change.


gfmasdr
IOhannes


OpenPGP_signature
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
___
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

[PD] fan-out (was Re: Pd-list Digest, Vol 203, Issue 12)

[IOhannes m zmoelnig]

hi.

it would be super-cool if you could change the subject to something 
meaningful before replying to a digest mail.


On 2/10/22 14:39, Samuel Burt wrote:

Having used Pd for two decades, this still catches me occasionally. I was


that's the reason why i think that statements like "Fanning out to cold 
control inlets is perfectly fine" and "I also admit to using fanning 
when I know order isn't as important for that case" are problematic.
not because they are wrong (they are objectively correct), but because 
they encourage bad habits which are hard to come by.




only able to debug the problem because I knew this could be an issue. Guess
the UI doesn't allow for some kind of subtle indication that you've fanned
connections from an outlet. Would be nice though if a little "x2", "x3",
and "x4" would pop up next to your mouse cursor when you are making a
connection and mouse over the next inlet. 


dunno.
if you are currently creating a fan-out you are hopefully aware that you 
are doing just that (i think it's *really* hard to not notice that an 
outlet already has a connection going out).
so the problem is not to make people aware that they are fanning out, 
but to make people aware that this might introduce message ordering 
problems.


in the meantime, use triggerize (Ctrl+a Ctrl+t) to resolve all your 
fan-outs.


gfmkdf
IOhannes


OpenPGP_signature
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
___
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

Re: [PD] Pd-list Digest, Vol 203, Issue 12

[Samuel Burt]

Having used Pd for two decades, this still catches me occasionally. I was
only able to debug the problem because I knew this could be an issue. Guess
the UI doesn't allow for some kind of subtle indication that you've fanned
connections from an outlet. Would be nice though if a little "x2", "x3",
and "x4" would pop up next to your mouse cursor when you are making a
connection and mouse over the next inlet. Not sure if this would even be
trackable using send and receive, because this is another place where one
outlet can go to multiple inlets in a manner that feels indeterminate.

Sam





On Thu, Feb 10, 2022 at 7:37 AM  wrote:

> Send Pd-list mailing list submissions to
> pd-list@lists.iem.at
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> pd-list-ow...@lists.iem.at
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Pd-list digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>1. Re: [midifile] (Dan Wilcox)
>2. Re: [midifile] (IOhannes m zmoelnig)
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2022 12:53:07 +0100
> From: Dan Wilcox 
> To: Roman Haefeli 
> Cc: Pd-List 
> Subject: Re: [PD] [midifile]
> Message-ID: <47594f6d-c540-45dd-99aa-7fe0f47a2...@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> I agree, this is an established aspect of patching in Pd and changing it
> is not likely possible at this point. A positive reinforcement for using
> trigger is that it's simply more readable. I also admit to using fanning
> when I know order isn't as important for that case,
>
> I feel like often these problems also come from people trying Pd out after
> being more familiar with Max. Perhaps it would be good if Pd included a
> mini "Pd for Max users" guide which starts with execution order
> differences, ie. on canvas placement versus creation order. Forgive me if
> this info is in our documentation, I admit to not having gone through it
> since circa 2006 when I first started with Pd.
>
> > On Feb 10, 2022, at 12:00 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> >
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2022 10:30:36 +0100
> > From: Roman Haefeli mailto:reduz...@gmail.com>>
> > To: pd-list@lists.iem.at <mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>
> > Subject: Re: [PD] [midifile]
> > Message-ID: <32c6cc64713fab78eae64728309bb95975471116.ca...@gmail.com
> <mailto:32c6cc64713fab78eae64728309bb95975471116.ca...@gmail.com>>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > On Thu, 2022-02-10 at 10:09 +0100, Max wrote:
> >
> >> Should Pd warn the user when one outlet is connected to multiple
> >> objects?
> >
> > I'd rather want Pd not to do that.
> >
> > 1) There are too many cases where fanning outlet connections are OK.
> >
> > 2) I believe it's more valuable if people do not fanning connections
> > because they understand their implications rather than because a
> > message tells them to avoid them.
> >
> > 3) I'm personally not so fond of the idea of giving people patching
> > advice.
>
> 
> Dan Wilcox
> @danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
> danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
> robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>
>
>
>
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/attachments/20220210/2afba033/attachment-0001.htm
> >
>
> --
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2022 13:36:28 +0100
> From: IOhannes m zmoelnig 
> To: pd-list@lists.iem.at
> Subject: Re: [PD] [midifile]
> Message-ID: 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
>
> On 2/10/22 12:53, Dan Wilcox wrote:
> > I feel like often these problems also come from people trying Pd out
> after being more familiar with Max. Perhaps it would be good if Pd included
> a mini "Pd for Max users" guide which starts with execution order
> differences,
>
> hmm.
> i'd prefer a "tip-of-the-day".
> order of execution is important enough that everybody should be aware of
> it, whether they come from max, , csound or out of the blue.
>
> i figure your argument is, that most of these have to learn Pd from
> scratch anyhow and 

Re: [PD] [midifile]

[IOhannes m zmoelnig]

On 2/10/22 12:53, Dan Wilcox wrote:

I feel like often these problems also come from people trying Pd out after being more 
familiar with Max. Perhaps it would be good if Pd included a mini "Pd for Max 
users" guide which starts with execution order differences,


hmm.
i'd prefer a "tip-of-the-day".
order of execution is important enough that everybody should be aware of 
it, whether they come from max, , csound or out of the blue.


i figure your argument is, that most of these have to learn Pd from 
scratch anyhow and will eventually come to the "use [trigger]" section 
in the documentation, whereas the max users would just dive into it (as 
Pd has been sold to them as something you can use your Max-skills with 
without having to pay the license).


my argument is that people who find tips-of-the-day useful are not power 
users yet and as such an occasional reminder won't hurt.


gfdmas
IOhannes



OpenPGP_signature
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
___
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

Re: [PD] [midifile]

[Dan Wilcox]

I agree, this is an established aspect of patching in Pd and changing it is not 
likely possible at this point. A positive reinforcement for using trigger is 
that it's simply more readable. I also admit to using fanning when I know order 
isn't as important for that case,

I feel like often these problems also come from people trying Pd out after 
being more familiar with Max. Perhaps it would be good if Pd included a mini 
"Pd for Max users" guide which starts with execution order differences, ie. on 
canvas placement versus creation order. Forgive me if this info is in our 
documentation, I admit to not having gone through it since circa 2006 when I 
first started with Pd.

> On Feb 10, 2022, at 12:00 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2022 10:30:36 +0100
> From: Roman Haefeli mailto:reduz...@gmail.com>>
> To: pd-list@lists.iem.at 
> Subject: Re: [PD] [midifile]
> Message-ID: <32c6cc64713fab78eae64728309bb95975471116.ca...@gmail.com 
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> On Thu, 2022-02-10 at 10:09 +0100, Max wrote:
> 
>> Should Pd warn the user when one outlet is connected to multiple
>> objects?
> 
> I'd rather want Pd not to do that. 
> 
> 1) There are too many cases where fanning outlet connections are OK.
> 
> 2) I believe it's more valuable if people do not fanning connections
> because they understand their implications rather than because a
> message tells them to avoid them.
> 
> 3) I'm personally not so fond of the idea of giving people patching
> advice. 


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika 
danomatika.com 
robotcowboy.com 



___
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

Re: [PD] [midifile]

[Roman Haefeli]

On Thu, 2022-02-10 at 10:09 +0100, Max wrote:

> Should Pd warn the user when one outlet is connected to multiple
> objects?

I'd rather want Pd not to do that. 
  
1) There are too many cases where fanning outlet connections are OK.

2) I believe it's more valuable if people do not fanning connections
because they understand their implications rather than because a
message tells them to avoid them.

3) I'm personally not so fond of the idea of giving people patching
advice. 


Roman


signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part
___
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

Re: [PD] [midifile]

[Christof Ressi]

It's a bit more tricky. Fanning control outlets are not a problem per 
se, only if those connections go to one or more *hot* control inlets. 
Fanning out to cold control inlets is perfectly fine; some people still 
like to use [trigger], but technically it doesn't make a difference. 
Also, fanning out to signal inlets isn't problematic, either.


So maybe Pd could warn if fanning outlets go to one or more hot control 
inlets.


On 10.02.2022 10:09, Max wrote:
Most of the puredata tagged questions on stackoverflow are message 
order bugs caused by fanning outlet connections.

Should Pd warn the user when one outlet is connected to multiple objects?

On 09.02.22 21:08, IOhannes m zmölnig wrote:
Am 9. Februar 2022 19:07:45 MEZ schrieb Samuel Burt 
:

As with most unpredictable problems in pd, this one was solved with a
trigger


well, *that* was predictable...


mfg.sfg.jfd
IOhannes


___
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list





___
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list




___
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

Re: [PD] [midifile]

[Max]

Most of the puredata tagged questions on stackoverflow are message order 
bugs caused by fanning outlet connections.

Should Pd warn the user when one outlet is connected to multiple objects?

On 09.02.22 21:08, IOhannes m zmölnig wrote:

Am 9. Februar 2022 19:07:45 MEZ schrieb Samuel Burt 
:

As with most unpredictable problems in pd, this one was solved with a
trigger


well, *that* was predictable...


mfg.sfg.jfd
IOhannes


___
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list





___
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list