Re: [PD] Cyclone help patches & issue list

[Jonathan Wilkes via Pd-list]

Well, you can peruse the tracker's open patches to get a sense of whether you 
can (or if it's worth your time to try).  Keep in mind the Pd-l2ork gui prefs 
code started out as a patch specifically written as a clean, small patch to get 
into Vanilla/Extended.

-Jonathan


 On Tuesday, December 16, 2014 6:04 PM, Dan Wilcox  
wrote:
   

 Sorry, I didn;t mean to sound like I'm griping. The nature of the question was 
more "if we apply clean, small patches to vanilla, could we get some of Han's 
updates in so they aren't lost to non Pd-l2ork users". I'm in the middle of 
writing my thesis right now, but getting into real Pd development again is on 
my list when I'm finally done with it.
On Tue, Dec 16, 2014 at 5:59 PM, Jonathan Wilkes  wrote:
  On 12/16/2014 03:12 PM, Dan Wilcox wrote:
  
  I like how I explicitly asked to not hear that "Pd-l2ork has that" and yet 
that's the response I got. I already knew this anyway from the sample 
screenshots you were posting when you were implementing it. (Looks great BTW)  
 
 Yeah, I know, it was 100% willful snark on my part.  It's kind of like you 
were asking, "Is there a way to do X, while satisfying my irrational desire to 
ignore a working solution by someone who likely already did X?"
 
 Anyway, did you look at the code?  It's done in tcl/tk, and it does not depend 
on tkpath.  So if you don't want to duplicate all the work I already did, you 
can fairly easily port that back to Pd Vanilla.  There might be a few API 
differences in accessing the audio backend, but there are small and I don't 
mind helping make those changes.
 
 Also, I specifically did everything in tcl/tk so that the patch would be as 
simple as possible.  It shouldn't even require a recompile.  Now, I haven't 
looked at Ivica's changes that added persistence.  But all versions of Pd have 
the same prefs-saving code so that shouldn't be difficult, either.
 
 
  
  Also, if you didn't know, why respond? :P  
 
 Because the answer to your question ultimately depends on whether what you 
come up with fits the unspoken yet stringent HIG standards imposed by Miller's 
Pd.
 
 But that doesn't mean that code which does _exactly_ what you're asking about 
isn't relevant to your question.
 
 -Jonathan
 
 
 
   
  On 12/15/2014 06:21 PM, Dan Wilcox wrote:
  
 If that does become a real scenario, I hope we can find a way to bring some of 
the Pd-extended UI changes into vanilla, such as the  pixel perfect sizing 
across platforms, an option for the extended coloring (graytones) etc. Before 
anyone says “Pd-Lork has that”, I’m just wondering if it’s feasible to bring in 
some of the work Hans did after the gui cleanup which is already in vanilla.
 
 In answer to your question: I don't know.
 
 Having answered that...
 
 Pd-l2ork has gui theme presets for Vanilla, Inverted Vanilla, Pd-extended, 
Commodore 64, Strongbad's Compy, and a few others.  There's also an interface 
to make a custom theme-- I didn't make it persistent but I think Ivica added 
that ability.
 
 -Jonathan
  
 
  --   Dan Wilcox
 danomatika.com
 robotcowboy.com   
 
 


-- 
Dan Wilcox
danomatika.com
robotcowboy.com

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Re: [PD] Cyclone help patches & issue list

[Dan Wilcox]

Sorry, I didn;t mean to sound like I'm griping. The nature of the question
was more "if we apply clean, small patches to vanilla, could we get some of
Han's updates in so they aren't lost to non Pd-l2ork users". I'm in the
middle of writing my thesis right now, but getting into real Pd development
again is on my list when I'm finally done with it.

On Tue, Dec 16, 2014 at 5:59 PM, Jonathan Wilkes  wrote:
>
>  On 12/16/2014 03:12 PM, Dan Wilcox wrote:
>
>  I like how I explicitly asked to not hear that "Pd-l2ork has that" and
> yet that's the response I got. I already knew this anyway from the sample
> screenshots you were posting when you were implementing it. (Looks great
> BTW)
>
>
> Yeah, I know, it was 100% willful snark on my part.  It's kind of like you
> were asking, "Is there a way to do X, while satisfying my irrational desire
> to ignore a working solution by someone who likely already did X?"
>
> Anyway, did you look at the code?  It's done in tcl/tk, and it does not
> depend on tkpath.  So if you don't want to duplicate all the work I already
> did, you can fairly easily port that back to Pd Vanilla.  There might be a
> few API differences in accessing the audio backend, but there are small and
> I don't mind helping make those changes.
>
> Also, I specifically did everything in tcl/tk so that the patch would be
> as simple as possible.  It shouldn't even require a recompile.  Now, I
> haven't looked at Ivica's changes that added persistence.  But all versions
> of Pd have the same prefs-saving code so that shouldn't be difficult,
> either.
>
>
>  Also, if you didn't know, why respond? :P
>
>
> Because the answer to your question ultimately depends on whether what you
> come up with fits the unspoken yet stringent HIG standards imposed by
> Miller's Pd.
>
> But that doesn't mean that code which does _exactly_ what you're asking
> about isn't relevant to your question.
>
> -Jonathan
>
>
>   On 12/15/2014 06:21 PM, Dan Wilcox wrote:
>>
>> If that does become a real scenario, I hope we can find a way to bring
>> some of the Pd-extended UI changes into vanilla, such as the pixel perfect
>> sizing across platforms, an option for the extended coloring (graytones)
>> etc. Before anyone says “Pd-Lork has that”, I’m just wondering if it’s
>> feasible to bring in some of the work Hans did after the gui cleanup which
>> is already in vanilla.
>>
>>
>> In answer to your question: I don't know.
>>
>> Having answered that...
>>
>> Pd-l2ork has gui theme presets for Vanilla, Inverted Vanilla,
>> Pd-extended, Commodore 64, Strongbad's Compy, and a few others.  There's
>> also an interface to make a custom theme-- I didn't make it persistent but
>> I think Ivica added that ability.
>>
>> -Jonathan
>>
>
>  --
>  Dan Wilcox
> danomatika.com
> robotcowboy.com
>
>
>

-- 
Dan Wilcox
danomatika.com
robotcowboy.com
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Re: [PD] Cyclone help patches & issue list

[Jonathan Wilkes via Pd-list]

On 12/16/2014 03:12 PM, Dan Wilcox wrote:
I like how I explicitly asked to not hear that "Pd-l2ork has that" and 
yet that's the response I got. I already knew this anyway from the 
sample screenshots you were posting when you were implementing it. 
(Looks great BTW)


Yeah, I know, it was 100% willful snark on my part.  It's kind of like 
you were asking, "Is there a way to do X, while satisfying my irrational 
desire to ignore a working solution by someone who likely already did X?"


Anyway, did you look at the code?  It's done in tcl/tk, and it does not 
depend on tkpath.  So if you don't want to duplicate all the work I 
already did, you can fairly easily port that back to Pd Vanilla.  There 
might be a few API differences in accessing the audio backend, but there 
are small and I don't mind helping make those changes.


Also, I specifically did everything in tcl/tk so that the patch would be 
as simple as possible.  It shouldn't even require a recompile.  Now, I 
haven't looked at Ivica's changes that added persistence.  But all 
versions of Pd have the same prefs-saving code so that shouldn't be 
difficult, either.




Also, if you didn't know, why respond? :P


Because the answer to your question ultimately depends on whether what 
you come up with fits the unspoken yet stringent HIG standards imposed 
by Miller's Pd.


But that doesn't mean that code which does _exactly_ what you're asking 
about isn't relevant to your question.


-Jonathan



On 12/15/2014 06:21 PM, Dan Wilcox wrote:

If that does become a real scenario, I hope we can find a way to
bring some of the Pd-extended UI changes into vanilla, such as
the pixel perfect sizing across platforms, an option for the
extended coloring (graytones) etc. Before anyone says “Pd-Lork
has that”, I’m just wondering if it’s feasible to bring in some
of the work Hans did after the gui cleanup which is already in
vanilla.


In answer to your question: I don't know.

Having answered that...

Pd-l2ork has gui theme presets for Vanilla, Inverted Vanilla,
Pd-extended, Commodore 64, Strongbad's Compy, and a few others. 
There's also an interface to make a custom theme-- I didn't make

it persistent but I think Ivica added that ability.

-Jonathan


--
Dan Wilcox
danomatika.com 
robotcowboy.com 


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Re: [PD] Cyclone help patches & issue list

[Dan Wilcox]

I like how I explicitly asked to not hear that "Pd-l2ork has that" and yet
that's the response I got. I already knew this anyway from the sample
screenshots you were posting when you were implementing it. (Looks great
BTW)

Also, if you didn't know, why respond? :P

 On 12/15/2014 06:21 PM, Dan Wilcox wrote:
>
> If that does become a real scenario, I hope we can find a way to bring
> some of the Pd-extended UI changes into vanilla, such as the pixel perfect
> sizing across platforms, an option for the extended coloring (graytones)
> etc. Before anyone says “Pd-Lork has that”, I’m just wondering if it’s
> feasible to bring in some of the work Hans did after the gui cleanup which
> is already in vanilla.
>
>
> In answer to your question: I don't know.
>
> Having answered that...
>
> Pd-l2ork has gui theme presets for Vanilla, Inverted Vanilla, Pd-extended,
> Commodore 64, Strongbad's Compy, and a few others.  There's also an
> interface to make a custom theme-- I didn't make it persistent but I think
> Ivica added that ability.
>
> -Jonathan
>

-- 
Dan Wilcox
danomatika.com
robotcowboy.com
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Re: [PD] Cyclone help patches & issue list

[Fred Jan Kraan]

On 2014-12-15 22:46, Miller Puckette wrote:

> Just FYI…. Joe Deken of newblankets.org is considering making a repository
> of external objects compatible with Pd vanilla.  I think almost all the
> objects in Pd extended will work with vanilla (and if I find out what
> specific changes vanilla would need to allow the others, I'd be happy to
> try to provide them).  It seems like maintaining compiled versions of the
> libs is an easier thing to do than maintaining all of Pd Extended.

I heard about that. It could neatly solve the distribution problem and
make the corpus of pd-extended libraries more manageable by splitting it
up. It there is a pilot-program, I would happy to be part of it.
> 
> cheers
> Miller

Greetings,

Fred Jan
> 
> On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 07:36:59PM -0200, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
>>> I could put the compiled libraries somewhere online,
>>> but do not expect a neat installer.
>>
>> No need for installers. If it's somewhere just compiled for the major
>> systems and with the source code for nerds everywhere is cool ;)
>>
>>> There is no indication a new Extended release
>>> will happen any time soon.
>>
>> I know, that's a bummer :( and that's why putting the library for download
>> seems important.
>>
>>> the formula in the code is the same as found
>>> in the Max5 documentation
>>
>> yeah, but does it show you how to calculate the coefficients besides the
>> formula?
>>
>> cheers
>>
>> 2014-12-15 16:08 GMT-02:00 Fred Jan Kraan :
>>>
>>> Hi Alexandre,
> Sorry, yes pd-extended 0.44.

 sure, but when I first mentioned about versions, I was thinking about
 cyclone's own version number.

 I assume there's one, right? And I also assume you have it for download
 somewhere for people to include it in Pd Vanilla. Where can we get it?

>>> Currently it appears only in the pd META sub-patch of the help-patches. It
>>> is currently 0.1-alpha56. Adding it to each object would be a good thing
>>> and report it at load time (Debug-level). But this would mean changing all
>>> objects. Something for the todo list.
>>>
>>> Currently there are only some patches in the patch tracker, and linux 32
>>> bit executables on my harddisk. The idea is to test them on several
>>> platforms, including linux 64 bit, Windows 32 bit and Macos X 10.7 (64
>>> bit). I could put the compiled libraries somewhere online, but do not
>>> expect a neat installer. I would consider it a temporary stop-gap for
>>> the time there is no proper distribution.
>>>
 If Extended keeps on delaying too much for an update, I'm gonna start
 just getting all the libraries I use into vanilla :(
>>>
>>> There is no indication a new Extended release will happen any time soon.

 cheers

 ps. while we're at it, I have a question, are [lores~] and [reson~]
 perfect copies of the Max's objects, same formula and everything, or
 just something similar?
>>>
>>> The objects should be proper clones, but I haven't checked them in that
>>> much detail. At first glance I would say, the formula in the code is the
>>> same as found in the Max5 documentation.
>>>
>>> Greetings,
>>>
>>> Fred Jan
>>>
> 
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Re: [PD] Cyclone help patches & issue list

[Jonathan Wilkes via Pd-list]

On 12/15/2014 06:21 PM, Dan Wilcox wrote:
If that does become a real scenario, I hope we can find a way to bring 
some of the Pd-extended UI changes into vanilla, such as the pixel 
perfect sizing across platforms, an option for the extended coloring 
(graytones) etc. Before anyone says “Pd-Lork has that”, I’m just 
wondering if it’s feasible to bring in some of the work Hans did after 
the gui cleanup which is already in vanilla.


In answer to your question: I don't know.

Having answered that...

Pd-l2ork has gui theme presets for Vanilla, Inverted Vanilla, 
Pd-extended, Commodore 64, Strongbad's Compy, and a few others. There's 
also an interface to make a custom theme-- I didn't make it persistent 
but I think Ivica added that ability.


-Jonathan




Dan Wilcox
@danomatika
danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com>
robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com>

On Dec 15, 2014, at 4:58 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at 
<mailto:pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at> wrote:


*From:*Miller Puckette mailto:m...@ucsd.edu>>
*Cc:*"pd-l...@mail.iem.at <mailto:pd-l...@mail.iem.at>" 
mailto:pd-l...@mail.iem.at>>

*To:*Alexandre Torres Porres mailto:por...@gmail.com>>
*Date:*December 15, 2014 at 4:46:22 PM EST
*Subject:**Re: [PD] Cyclone help patches & issue list*


Just FYI…. Joe Deken ofnewblankets.org <http://newblankets.org/>is 
considering making a repository

of external objects compatible with Pd vanilla.  I think almost all the
objects in Pd extended will work with vanilla (and if I find out what
specific changes vanilla would need to allow the others, I'd be happy to
try to provide them).  It seems like maintaining compiled versions of the
libs is an easier thing to do than maintaining all of Pd Extended.

cheers
Miller




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Re: [PD] Cyclone help patches & issue list

[Dan Wilcox]

If that does become a real scenario, I hope we can find a way to bring some of 
the Pd-extended UI changes into vanilla, such as the pixel perfect sizing 
across platforms, an option for the extended coloring (graytones) etc. Before 
anyone says “Pd-Lork has that”, I’m just wondering if it’s feasible to bring in 
some of the work Hans did after the gui cleanup which is already in vanilla.


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika
danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>
> On Dec 15, 2014, at 4:58 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> From: Miller Puckette mailto:m...@ucsd.edu>>
> Cc: "pd-l...@mail.iem.at <mailto:pd-l...@mail.iem.at>"  <mailto:pd-l...@mail.iem.at>>
> To: Alexandre Torres Porres mailto:por...@gmail.com>>
> Date: December 15, 2014 at 4:46:22 PM EST
> Subject: Re: [PD] Cyclone help patches & issue list
> 
> 
> Just FYI…. Joe Deken of newblankets.org <http://newblankets.org/> is 
> considering making a repository
> of external objects compatible with Pd vanilla.  I think almost all the
> objects in Pd extended will work with vanilla (and if I find out what
> specific changes vanilla would need to allow the others, I'd be happy to
> try to provide them).  It seems like maintaining compiled versions of the
> libs is an easier thing to do than maintaining all of Pd Extended.
> 
> cheers
> Miller

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Re: [PD] Cyclone help patches & issue list

[Alexandre Torres Porres]

That sounds good.

I've always thought of Pd-Extended as a nice package of libraries. Since
it's been complicated to maintain it, I guess the way out would be to make
it easier for extra packages to be added to Vanilla. I'd be ol with that.

Fred, another suggestion I had was to include some [cascade~] object.
Internally it could just instantiate several [biquad~] objects, and it
would just split some incoming list to biquad filters in cascade. Maybe
that's not too complicated.

cheers

2014-12-15 19:46 GMT-02:00 Miller Puckette :
>
> Just FYI…. Joe Deken of newblankets.org is considering making a repository
> of external objects compatible with Pd vanilla.  I think almost all the
> objects in Pd extended will work with vanilla (and if I find out what
> specific changes vanilla would need to allow the others, I'd be happy to
> try to provide them).  It seems like maintaining compiled versions of the
> libs is an easier thing to do than maintaining all of Pd Extended.
>
> cheers
> Miller
>
> On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 07:36:59PM -0200, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
> > > I could put the compiled libraries somewhere online,
> > > but do not expect a neat installer.
> >
> > No need for installers. If it's somewhere just compiled for the major
> > systems and with the source code for nerds everywhere is cool ;)
> >
> > > There is no indication a new Extended release
> > > will happen any time soon.
> >
> > I know, that's a bummer :( and that's why putting the library for
> download
> > seems important.
> >
> > > the formula in the code is the same as found
> > > in the Max5 documentation
> >
> > yeah, but does it show you how to calculate the coefficients besides the
> > formula?
> >
> > cheers
> >
> > 2014-12-15 16:08 GMT-02:00 Fred Jan Kraan :
> > >
> > > Hi Alexandre,
> > > >> Sorry, yes pd-extended 0.44.
> > > >
> > > > sure, but when I first mentioned about versions, I was thinking about
> > > > cyclone's own version number.
> > > >
> > > > I assume there's one, right? And I also assume you have it for
> download
> > > > somewhere for people to include it in Pd Vanilla. Where can we get
> it?
> > > >
> > > Currently it appears only in the pd META sub-patch of the
> help-patches. It
> > > is currently 0.1-alpha56. Adding it to each object would be a good
> thing
> > > and report it at load time (Debug-level). But this would mean changing
> all
> > > objects. Something for the todo list.
> > >
> > > Currently there are only some patches in the patch tracker, and linux
> 32
> > > bit executables on my harddisk. The idea is to test them on several
> > > platforms, including linux 64 bit, Windows 32 bit and Macos X 10.7 (64
> > > bit). I could put the compiled libraries somewhere online, but do not
> > > expect a neat installer. I would consider it a temporary stop-gap for
> > > the time there is no proper distribution.
> > >
> > > > If Extended keeps on delaying too much for an update, I'm gonna start
> > > > just getting all the libraries I use into vanilla :(
> > >
> > > There is no indication a new Extended release will happen any time
> soon.
> > > >
> > > > cheers
> > > >
> > > > ps. while we're at it, I have a question, are [lores~] and [reson~]
> > > > perfect copies of the Max's objects, same formula and everything, or
> > > > just something similar?
> > >
> > > The objects should be proper clones, but I haven't checked them in that
> > > much detail. At first glance I would say, the formula in the code is
> the
> > > same as found in the Max5 documentation.
> > >
> > > Greetings,
> > >
> > > Fred Jan
> > >
>
> > ___
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Re: [PD] Cyclone help patches & issue list

[Miller Puckette]

Just FYI…. Joe Deken of newblankets.org is considering making a repository
of external objects compatible with Pd vanilla.  I think almost all the
objects in Pd extended will work with vanilla (and if I find out what
specific changes vanilla would need to allow the others, I'd be happy to
try to provide them).  It seems like maintaining compiled versions of the
libs is an easier thing to do than maintaining all of Pd Extended.

cheers
Miller

On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 07:36:59PM -0200, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
> > I could put the compiled libraries somewhere online,
> > but do not expect a neat installer.
> 
> No need for installers. If it's somewhere just compiled for the major
> systems and with the source code for nerds everywhere is cool ;)
> 
> > There is no indication a new Extended release
> > will happen any time soon.
> 
> I know, that's a bummer :( and that's why putting the library for download
> seems important.
> 
> > the formula in the code is the same as found
> > in the Max5 documentation
> 
> yeah, but does it show you how to calculate the coefficients besides the
> formula?
> 
> cheers
> 
> 2014-12-15 16:08 GMT-02:00 Fred Jan Kraan :
> >
> > Hi Alexandre,
> > >> Sorry, yes pd-extended 0.44.
> > >
> > > sure, but when I first mentioned about versions, I was thinking about
> > > cyclone's own version number.
> > >
> > > I assume there's one, right? And I also assume you have it for download
> > > somewhere for people to include it in Pd Vanilla. Where can we get it?
> > >
> > Currently it appears only in the pd META sub-patch of the help-patches. It
> > is currently 0.1-alpha56. Adding it to each object would be a good thing
> > and report it at load time (Debug-level). But this would mean changing all
> > objects. Something for the todo list.
> >
> > Currently there are only some patches in the patch tracker, and linux 32
> > bit executables on my harddisk. The idea is to test them on several
> > platforms, including linux 64 bit, Windows 32 bit and Macos X 10.7 (64
> > bit). I could put the compiled libraries somewhere online, but do not
> > expect a neat installer. I would consider it a temporary stop-gap for
> > the time there is no proper distribution.
> >
> > > If Extended keeps on delaying too much for an update, I'm gonna start
> > > just getting all the libraries I use into vanilla :(
> >
> > There is no indication a new Extended release will happen any time soon.
> > >
> > > cheers
> > >
> > > ps. while we're at it, I have a question, are [lores~] and [reson~]
> > > perfect copies of the Max's objects, same formula and everything, or
> > > just something similar?
> >
> > The objects should be proper clones, but I haven't checked them in that
> > much detail. At first glance I would say, the formula in the code is the
> > same as found in the Max5 documentation.
> >
> > Greetings,
> >
> > Fred Jan
> >

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Re: [PD] Cyclone help patches & issue list

[Alexandre Torres Porres]

> I could put the compiled libraries somewhere online,
> but do not expect a neat installer.

No need for installers. If it's somewhere just compiled for the major
systems and with the source code for nerds everywhere is cool ;)

> There is no indication a new Extended release
> will happen any time soon.

I know, that's a bummer :( and that's why putting the library for download
seems important.

> the formula in the code is the same as found
> in the Max5 documentation

yeah, but does it show you how to calculate the coefficients besides the
formula?

cheers

2014-12-15 16:08 GMT-02:00 Fred Jan Kraan :
>
> Hi Alexandre,
> >> Sorry, yes pd-extended 0.44.
> >
> > sure, but when I first mentioned about versions, I was thinking about
> > cyclone's own version number.
> >
> > I assume there's one, right? And I also assume you have it for download
> > somewhere for people to include it in Pd Vanilla. Where can we get it?
> >
> Currently it appears only in the pd META sub-patch of the help-patches. It
> is currently 0.1-alpha56. Adding it to each object would be a good thing
> and report it at load time (Debug-level). But this would mean changing all
> objects. Something for the todo list.
>
> Currently there are only some patches in the patch tracker, and linux 32
> bit executables on my harddisk. The idea is to test them on several
> platforms, including linux 64 bit, Windows 32 bit and Macos X 10.7 (64
> bit). I could put the compiled libraries somewhere online, but do not
> expect a neat installer. I would consider it a temporary stop-gap for
> the time there is no proper distribution.
>
> > If Extended keeps on delaying too much for an update, I'm gonna start
> > just getting all the libraries I use into vanilla :(
>
> There is no indication a new Extended release will happen any time soon.
> >
> > cheers
> >
> > ps. while we're at it, I have a question, are [lores~] and [reson~]
> > perfect copies of the Max's objects, same formula and everything, or
> > just something similar?
>
> The objects should be proper clones, but I haven't checked them in that
> much detail. At first glance I would say, the formula in the code is the
> same as found in the Max5 documentation.
>
> Greetings,
>
> Fred Jan
>
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Re: [PD] Cyclone help patches & issue list

[Fred Jan Kraan]

Hi Alexandre,
>> Sorry, yes pd-extended 0.44. 
> 
> sure, but when I first mentioned about versions, I was thinking about
> cyclone's own version number.
> 
> I assume there's one, right? And I also assume you have it for download
> somewhere for people to include it in Pd Vanilla. Where can we get it?
> 
Currently it appears only in the pd META sub-patch of the help-patches. It
is currently 0.1-alpha56. Adding it to each object would be a good thing
and report it at load time (Debug-level). But this would mean changing all
objects. Something for the todo list.

Currently there are only some patches in the patch tracker, and linux 32
bit executables on my harddisk. The idea is to test them on several
platforms, including linux 64 bit, Windows 32 bit and Macos X 10.7 (64
bit). I could put the compiled libraries somewhere online, but do not
expect a neat installer. I would consider it a temporary stop-gap for
the time there is no proper distribution.

> If Extended keeps on delaying too much for an update, I'm gonna start
> just getting all the libraries I use into vanilla :(

There is no indication a new Extended release will happen any time soon.
> 
> cheers
> 
> ps. while we're at it, I have a question, are [lores~] and [reson~]
> perfect copies of the Max's objects, same formula and everything, or
> just something similar? 

The objects should be proper clones, but I haven't checked them in that
much detail. At first glance I would say, the formula in the code is the
same as found in the Max5 documentation.

Greetings,

Fred Jan

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Re: [PD] Cyclone help patches & issue list

[Alexandre Torres Porres]

> Sorry, yes pd-extended 0.44.

sure, but when I first mentioned about versions, I was thinking about
cyclone's own version number.

I assume there's one, right? And I also assume you have it for download
somewhere for people to include it in Pd Vanilla. Where can we get it?

If Extended keeps on delaying too much for an update, I'm gonna start just
getting all the libraries I use into vanilla :(

cheers

ps. while we're at it, I have a question, are [lores~] and [reson~] perfect
copies of the Max's objects, same formula and everything, or just something
similar?

thanks



2014-12-14 6:35 GMT-02:00 Fred Jan Kraan :
>
> Hi Alexandre,
>
> > Awesome, can't wait for the new release :)
> >
> >> The source I am using is some 0.44 version.
> >
> > You mean the 0.44.0 extended, right?
>
> Sorry, yes pd-extended 0.44. If all these objects were in vanilla, our
> world would look quite different :-)
> >
> > Well, I guess the next step is to see if we can get a new Pd Extended
> > soon, and hopefully in pace with the current 0.46 version.
> >
> > But this is another discussion.
> >
> By making these kinds of changes and improvements, we can make a new
> release more worthwhile, and thus increase the change it will happen ;-)
>
> > Thanks
>
> Greetings,
>
> Fred Jan
> >
> > 2014-12-13 16:53 GMT-02:00 Fred Jan Kraan  > >:
> >
> > Hi Alexandre,
> >
> > > Hi, I re-sending (or forwarding) my first message about cartopol,
> with
> > > the patch I had attached to exemplify the issue. My message was
> brief
> > > then, but it said it all.
> > >
> > The message was clear, surely with the additional info. Attached is
> an
> > image of your patch with a modified poltocar~.
> > >
> > > Now, I'm assuming that the version in 0.43 is the latest and is
> the one
> > > you have. About the bug list then, the right thing to do would be
> to
> > > take [cartopol~] out of the list and just keep [poltocar~], saying
> > > something like "wrong conversion".
> >
> > The source I am using is some 0.44 version. The final code patch
> should
> > be based on the svn code. Not much difference is to be expected here.
> > >
> > > I haven't checked the code. But the formulas are pretty simple,
> just
> > > basically sine and cosine, so you can't go wrong by fixing it.
> There
> > > must be a minus sing somewhere where it didn't belong, just take
> it out.
> >
> > Indeed it is (poltocar.c:35):
> >
> > *out2++ = -am * sinf(ph);  /* CHECKED */
> >
> > Removing the minus and recompiling made your patch work as expected.
> > Added some info to the sourceforge bug "#1128 still on cartopol~ /
> > poltocar~".
> >
> > >
> > > Cheers
> >
> > Greetings,
> >
> > Fred Jan
> > >
> > > -- Forwarded message --
> > > From: *Alexandre Torres Porres*  por...@gmail.com>  > >>
> > > Date: 2014-12-08 20:37 GMT-02:00
> > > Subject: Re: [PD] Cyclone suite initiative
> > > To: Fred Jan Kraan mailto:fjkr...@xs4all.nl>
> > >>
> > > Cc: pd-l...@mail.iem.at 
> > >
> > >
> > > cartopol~ and poltocar~ are also buggy
> > >
> > > I pointed it out once, but only cartopol~ was corrected and it
> made it
> > > worse. check atatchment.
> > >
> > > do you have this covered?
> > >
> > > cheers
> > >
> > > 2014-12-08 14:30 GMT-02:00 Fred Jan Kraan  
> > > >>:
> > >
> > > Hi Alexandre,
> > >
> > > Thanks for the report.
> > >
> > > Next to working on the help-patches, I am working on creating
> > such a
> > > list. I'll put it somewhere public when the patches are done.
> > >
> > > So when you find any others, I would like to know.
> > >
> > > Greetings,
> > >
> > > Fred Jan
> > >
> > > > hi, you probably know about this bug, but [rand~]'s argument
> > doesn't
> > > > really work. I'd be happy to help find other bugs, do you
> have a
> > > list of
> > > > bugs you're working on?
> > > >
> > > > cheers
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
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Re: [PD] Cyclone help patches & issue list

[Fred Jan Kraan]

Hi Alexandre,

> Awesome, can't wait for the new release :)
> 
>> The source I am using is some 0.44 version.
> 
> You mean the 0.44.0 extended, right?

Sorry, yes pd-extended 0.44. If all these objects were in vanilla, our
world would look quite different :-)
> 
> Well, I guess the next step is to see if we can get a new Pd Extended
> soon, and hopefully in pace with the current 0.46 version.
> 
> But this is another discussion.
> 
By making these kinds of changes and improvements, we can make a new
release more worthwhile, and thus increase the change it will happen ;-)

> Thanks

Greetings,

Fred Jan
> 
> 2014-12-13 16:53 GMT-02:00 Fred Jan Kraan  >:
> 
> Hi Alexandre,
> 
> > Hi, I re-sending (or forwarding) my first message about cartopol, with
> > the patch I had attached to exemplify the issue. My message was brief
> > then, but it said it all.
> >
> The message was clear, surely with the additional info. Attached is an
> image of your patch with a modified poltocar~.
> >
> > Now, I'm assuming that the version in 0.43 is the latest and is the one
> > you have. About the bug list then, the right thing to do would be to
> > take [cartopol~] out of the list and just keep [poltocar~], saying
> > something like "wrong conversion".
> 
> The source I am using is some 0.44 version. The final code patch should
> be based on the svn code. Not much difference is to be expected here.
> >
> > I haven't checked the code. But the formulas are pretty simple, just
> > basically sine and cosine, so you can't go wrong by fixing it. There
> > must be a minus sing somewhere where it didn't belong, just take it out.
> 
> Indeed it is (poltocar.c:35):
> 
> *out2++ = -am * sinf(ph);  /* CHECKED */
> 
> Removing the minus and recompiling made your patch work as expected.
> Added some info to the sourceforge bug "#1128 still on cartopol~ /
> poltocar~".
> 
> >
> > Cheers
> 
> Greetings,
> 
> Fred Jan
> >
> > -- Forwarded message --
> > From: *Alexandre Torres Porres*    >>
> > Date: 2014-12-08 20:37 GMT-02:00
> > Subject: Re: [PD] Cyclone suite initiative
> > To: Fred Jan Kraan mailto:fjkr...@xs4all.nl>
> >>
> > Cc: pd-l...@mail.iem.at 
> >
> >
> > cartopol~ and poltocar~ are also buggy
> >
> > I pointed it out once, but only cartopol~ was corrected and it made it
> > worse. check atatchment.
> >
> > do you have this covered?
> >
> > cheers
> >
> > 2014-12-08 14:30 GMT-02:00 Fred Jan Kraan  
> > >>:
> >
> > Hi Alexandre,
> >
> > Thanks for the report.
> >
> > Next to working on the help-patches, I am working on creating
> such a
> > list. I'll put it somewhere public when the patches are done.
> >
> > So when you find any others, I would like to know.
> >
> > Greetings,
> >
> > Fred Jan
> >
> > > hi, you probably know about this bug, but [rand~]'s argument
> doesn't
> > > really work. I'd be happy to help find other bugs, do you have a
> > list of
> > > bugs you're working on?
> > >
> > > cheers
> > >
> >
> >
> 


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Re: [PD] Cyclone help patches & issue list

[Alexandre Torres Porres]

Awesome, can't wait for the new release :)

> The source I am using is some 0.44 version.

You mean the 0.44.0 extended, right?

Well, I guess the next step is to see if we can get a new Pd Extended soon,
and hopefully in pace with the current 0.46 version.

But this is another discussion.

Thanks

2014-12-13 16:53 GMT-02:00 Fred Jan Kraan :
>
> Hi Alexandre,
>
> > Hi, I re-sending (or forwarding) my first message about cartopol, with
> > the patch I had attached to exemplify the issue. My message was brief
> > then, but it said it all.
> >
> The message was clear, surely with the additional info. Attached is an
> image of your patch with a modified poltocar~.
> >
> > Now, I'm assuming that the version in 0.43 is the latest and is the one
> > you have. About the bug list then, the right thing to do would be to
> > take [cartopol~] out of the list and just keep [poltocar~], saying
> > something like "wrong conversion".
>
> The source I am using is some 0.44 version. The final code patch should
> be based on the svn code. Not much difference is to be expected here.
> >
> > I haven't checked the code. But the formulas are pretty simple, just
> > basically sine and cosine, so you can't go wrong by fixing it. There
> > must be a minus sing somewhere where it didn't belong, just take it out.
>
> Indeed it is (poltocar.c:35):
>
> *out2++ = -am * sinf(ph);  /* CHECKED */
>
> Removing the minus and recompiling made your patch work as expected.
> Added some info to the sourceforge bug "#1128 still on cartopol~ /
> poltocar~".
>
> >
> > Cheers
>
> Greetings,
>
> Fred Jan
> >
> > -- Forwarded message --
> > From: *Alexandre Torres Porres*  por...@gmail.com>>
> > Date: 2014-12-08 20:37 GMT-02:00
> > Subject: Re: [PD] Cyclone suite initiative
> > To: Fred Jan Kraan mailto:fjkr...@xs4all.nl>>
> > Cc: pd-l...@mail.iem.at 
> >
> > cartopol~ and poltocar~ are also buggy
> >
> > I pointed it out once, but only cartopol~ was corrected and it made it
> > worse. check atatchment.
> >
> > do you have this covered?
> >
> > cheers
> >
> > 2014-12-08 14:30 GMT-02:00 Fred Jan Kraan  > >:
> >
> > Hi Alexandre,
> >
> > Thanks for the report.
> >
> > Next to working on the help-patches, I am working on creating such a
> > list. I'll put it somewhere public when the patches are done.
> >
> > So when you find any others, I would like to know.
> >
> > Greetings,
> >
> > Fred Jan
> >
> > > hi, you probably know about this bug, but [rand~]'s argument
> doesn't
> > > really work. I'd be happy to help find other bugs, do you have a
> > list of
> > > bugs you're working on?
> > >
> > > cheers
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
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Re: [PD] Cyclone help patches & issue list

[Fred Jan Kraan]

Hi Alexandre,

> Hi, I re-sending (or forwarding) my first message about cartopol, with
> the patch I had attached to exemplify the issue. My message was brief
> then, but it said it all.
> 
The message was clear, surely with the additional info. Attached is an
image of your patch with a modified poltocar~.
> 
> Now, I'm assuming that the version in 0.43 is the latest and is the one
> you have. About the bug list then, the right thing to do would be to
> take [cartopol~] out of the list and just keep [poltocar~], saying
> something like "wrong conversion".

The source I am using is some 0.44 version. The final code patch should
be based on the svn code. Not much difference is to be expected here.
> 
> I haven't checked the code. But the formulas are pretty simple, just
> basically sine and cosine, so you can't go wrong by fixing it. There
> must be a minus sing somewhere where it didn't belong, just take it out.

Indeed it is (poltocar.c:35):

*out2++ = -am * sinf(ph);  /* CHECKED */

Removing the minus and recompiling made your patch work as expected.
Added some info to the sourceforge bug "#1128 still on cartopol~ /
poltocar~".

> 
> Cheers

Greetings,

Fred Jan
> 
> -- Forwarded message --
> From: *Alexandre Torres Porres* mailto:por...@gmail.com>>
> Date: 2014-12-08 20:37 GMT-02:00
> Subject: Re: [PD] Cyclone suite initiative
> To: Fred Jan Kraan mailto:fjkr...@xs4all.nl>>
> Cc: pd-l...@mail.iem.at 
> 
> cartopol~ and poltocar~ are also buggy
> 
> I pointed it out once, but only cartopol~ was corrected and it made it
> worse. check atatchment.
> 
> do you have this covered? 
> 
> cheers
> 
> 2014-12-08 14:30 GMT-02:00 Fred Jan Kraan  >:
> 
> Hi Alexandre,
> 
> Thanks for the report.
> 
> Next to working on the help-patches, I am working on creating such a
> list. I'll put it somewhere public when the patches are done.
> 
> So when you find any others, I would like to know.
> 
> Greetings,
> 
> Fred Jan
> 
> > hi, you probably know about this bug, but [rand~]'s argument doesn't
> > really work. I'd be happy to help find other bugs, do you have a
> list of
> > bugs you're working on?
> >
> > cheers
> >
> 
> 

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Re: [PD] Cyclone help patches & issue list

[Ivica Bukvic]

On Dec 13, 2014 8:35 AM, "Fred Jan Kraan"  wrote:
>
> Hi Alexandre,
>
> Thanks for the clarification, I changed the overview. But this is a good
> example for the type of problem that maybe shouldn't be fixed in the
> current objects. How many now working patches will break when the object
> behaviour changes? A workaround could be to create new objects, e.g.
> cartopol2~ and poltocart2~ with the correct behaviour. A correct working
> cartopol~ and poltocart~ would then have to wait for a new library.

FWIW, I adamantly oppose this kind of an approach within pd-l2ork because
if the original object behaves wrong, it needs to be fixed. And if any
patches really on this wrong behavior they should be fixed as well.
Otherwise, this is not a Max compatibility library and the pd libraries
that are treated this way will morph into a confusing pile of similar
objects with minimal differences and an incredibly steep learning curve.

>
> Some community input is welcome on this.
>
> The plan now is to further investigate the items on the list, create
> bug-report tickets at https://sourceforge.net/p/pure-data/bugs, try to
> fix the problem, test it and create and insert code-patches at
> https://sourceforge.net/p/pure-data/patches/ and then have them apply to
> the code. The mechanism is just for this and it is operational. The list
> on my site should be seen as just a preliminary overview of tasks.
>
> Greetings,
>
> Fred Jan
>
>
> > awesome, though I wouldn't point th issue with cartopol~/poltocar~ as
> > "accuracy", it's just positive when it should be negative and vice
> > versa, but I assume you know what's going on.
> >
> > cheers
> >
> > 2014-12-12 13:03 GMT-02:00 Jonathan Wilkes via Pd-list
> > mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>>:
> >
> > Great work!
> >
> > I'll take a look at them for Pd-l2ork.
> >
> > -Jonathan
> >
> >
> > On Friday, December 12, 2014 8:20 AM, Fred Jan Kraan
> > mailto:fjkr...@xs4all.nl>> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > The set of updated help-patches for the cyclone library is now
complete.
> > I'll check them at least once more time. For now they are at:
> > http://fjkraan.home.xs4all.nl/digaud/puredata/cyclone/help-patches
> >
> > Meanwhile there is also a list of issues to fix:
> >
http://fjkraan.home.xs4all.nl/digaud/puredata/cyclone/cycloneToDo.html
> >
> > If more people want to help, I could put the list in the wiki if I
> > manage to figure out how.
> >
> > Fred Jan
> >
> >
> > ___
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> >
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Re: [PD] Cyclone help patches & issue list

[Alexandre Torres Porres]

Here's the deal, using such objects only make sense if converting to and
back, right? I mean, at least for FFT that's the way it is, and I can't
think of another example.

Oh, and let it be clear that only the phase value is coming out wrong
(negative when it should be positive). And that is by using [cartopol~], of
course.

Anyway, for any kind of spectral processing and stuff, it doesn't really
matter if the phase is positive or negative. In other words, it sounds the
same wether the phase value is theoretically correct or not. But this is
only true if the backwards conversion with [poltocar~] is equally
"incorrect".

This is an example where two wrongs make it right. And they were both
wrong, but working. On the other hand, [cartopol] and [poltocar] where
always correct, by the way.

So the issue was just that if you wanted plot or print the phase from
[cartopol~] you get a wrong value. Not that much of a big deal. But it
would hurt to make the audio objects rights like the data versions.

Now get ready for the ultimate issue. I had complained about all this way
way long ago. And when Pd Extended 0.43 came out, apparently, something was
done about it, but only one of the objects where changed (I guess
[cartopol~]).

What doesn it mean? As of then, NONE of the spectral processing do work at
all! Cause when [poltocar~] converts it back. It's just wrong.

In other words, it was better before, when two wrongs made it right.

>  How many now working patches will break when the object
> behaviour changes? A workaround could be to create new
> objects, e.g. cartopol2~ and poltocart2~ with the correct behaviour.

So, it was an honest concern. But the bottom line of what I'm telling you
is: Nothing will break if this is corrected, and, actually, my patches
using cartopol and poltocar are all broken in Pd Extended 0.43

So the only reasonable thing to do right now is just fix it as it is
supposed to be. What do you say?

Can you follow all that I'm saying? I hope I was clear. Let me know if you
need more details.

Thanks

2014-12-13 11:33 GMT-02:00 Fred Jan Kraan :
>
> Hi Alexandre,
>
> Thanks for the clarification, I changed the overview. But this is a good
> example for the type of problem that maybe shouldn't be fixed in the
> current objects. How many now working patches will break when the object
> behaviour changes? A workaround could be to create new objects, e.g.
> cartopol2~ and poltocart2~ with the correct behaviour. A correct working
> cartopol~ and poltocart~ would then have to wait for a new library.
>
> Some community input is welcome on this.
>
> The plan now is to further investigate the items on the list, create
> bug-report tickets at https://sourceforge.net/p/pure-data/bugs, try to
> fix the problem, test it and create and insert code-patches at
> https://sourceforge.net/p/pure-data/patches/ and then have them apply to
> the code. The mechanism is just for this and it is operational. The list
> on my site should be seen as just a preliminary overview of tasks.
>
> Greetings,
>
> Fred Jan
>
>
> > awesome, though I wouldn't point th issue with cartopol~/poltocar~ as
> > "accuracy", it's just positive when it should be negative and vice
> > versa, but I assume you know what's going on.
> >
> > cheers
> >
> > 2014-12-12 13:03 GMT-02:00 Jonathan Wilkes via Pd-list
> > mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>>:
> >
> > Great work!
> >
> > I'll take a look at them for Pd-l2ork.
> >
> > -Jonathan
> >
> >
> > On Friday, December 12, 2014 8:20 AM, Fred Jan Kraan
> > mailto:fjkr...@xs4all.nl>> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > The set of updated help-patches for the cyclone library is now
> complete.
> > I'll check them at least once more time. For now they are at:
> > http://fjkraan.home.xs4all.nl/digaud/puredata/cyclone/help-patches
> >
> > Meanwhile there is also a list of issues to fix:
> >
> http://fjkraan.home.xs4all.nl/digaud/puredata/cyclone/cycloneToDo.html
> >
> > If more people want to help, I could put the list in the wiki if I
> > manage to figure out how.
> >
> > Fred Jan
> >
> >
> > ___
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> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
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> >
> >
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>
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Re: [PD] Cyclone help patches & issue list

[Fred Jan Kraan]

Hi Alexandre,

Thanks for the clarification, I changed the overview. But this is a good
example for the type of problem that maybe shouldn't be fixed in the
current objects. How many now working patches will break when the object
behaviour changes? A workaround could be to create new objects, e.g.
cartopol2~ and poltocart2~ with the correct behaviour. A correct working
cartopol~ and poltocart~ would then have to wait for a new library.

Some community input is welcome on this.

The plan now is to further investigate the items on the list, create
bug-report tickets at https://sourceforge.net/p/pure-data/bugs, try to
fix the problem, test it and create and insert code-patches at
https://sourceforge.net/p/pure-data/patches/ and then have them apply to
the code. The mechanism is just for this and it is operational. The list
on my site should be seen as just a preliminary overview of tasks.

Greetings,

Fred Jan


> awesome, though I wouldn't point th issue with cartopol~/poltocar~ as
> "accuracy", it's just positive when it should be negative and vice
> versa, but I assume you know what's going on.
> 
> cheers
> 
> 2014-12-12 13:03 GMT-02:00 Jonathan Wilkes via Pd-list
> mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>>:
> 
> Great work!
> 
> I'll take a look at them for Pd-l2ork.
> 
> -Jonathan
> 
> 
> On Friday, December 12, 2014 8:20 AM, Fred Jan Kraan
> mailto:fjkr...@xs4all.nl>> wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> The set of updated help-patches for the cyclone library is now complete.
> I'll check them at least once more time. For now they are at:
> http://fjkraan.home.xs4all.nl/digaud/puredata/cyclone/help-patches
> 
> Meanwhile there is also a list of issues to fix:
> http://fjkraan.home.xs4all.nl/digaud/puredata/cyclone/cycloneToDo.html
> 
> If more people want to help, I could put the list in the wiki if I
> manage to figure out how.
> 
> Fred Jan
> 
> 
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Re: [PD] Cyclone help patches & issue list

[Alexandre Torres Porres]

awesome, though I wouldn't point th issue with cartopol~/poltocar~ as
"accuracy", it's just positive when it should be negative and vice versa,
but I assume you know what's going on.

cheers

2014-12-12 13:03 GMT-02:00 Jonathan Wilkes via Pd-list :
>
> Great work!
>
> I'll take a look at them for Pd-l2ork.
>
> -Jonathan
>
>
>   On Friday, December 12, 2014 8:20 AM, Fred Jan Kraan 
> wrote:
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> The set of updated help-patches for the cyclone library is now complete.
> I'll check them at least once more time. For now they are at:
> http://fjkraan.home.xs4all.nl/digaud/puredata/cyclone/help-patches
>
> Meanwhile there is also a list of issues to fix:
> http://fjkraan.home.xs4all.nl/digaud/puredata/cyclone/cycloneToDo.html
>
> If more people want to help, I could put the list in the wiki if I
> manage to figure out how.
>
> Fred Jan
>
>
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Re: [PD] Cyclone help patches & issue list

[Jonathan Wilkes via Pd-list]

Great work!
I'll take a look at them for Pd-l2ork.

-Jonathan 

 On Friday, December 12, 2014 8:20 AM, Fred Jan Kraan  
wrote:
   

 Hi all,

The set of updated help-patches for the cyclone library is now complete.
I'll check them at least once more time. For now they are at:
http://fjkraan.home.xs4all.nl/digaud/puredata/cyclone/help-patches

Meanwhile there is also a list of issues to fix:
http://fjkraan.home.xs4all.nl/digaud/puredata/cyclone/cycloneToDo.html

If more people want to help, I could put the list in the wiki if I
manage to figure out how.

Fred Jan


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