Re: Pentax DSLR future

[Adam Maas]

I wouldn't exactly call the 5D non-Pro. It might not be spec'd like a 
1-series body, but with the cost and specs, it's certainly the 1Ds for 
less-solvent pro's.


I'm expecting the next serious Pentax DSLR to be spec'd like a D200. 
Just like the D and D100 so resemble each other. And I also expect to 
see a ugraded DS2 in the spring/summer, with a bigger buffer and more 
speed at a minimum, but probably also 8-9MP.


-Adam

Rob Studdert wrote:

So does anyone reckon seriously that Pentax's next DSLR will be spec'd anywhere 
near as well as the non-pro Canon 5D?


All the arguments for hanging about waiting for Pentax are wearing very thin 
these days.



Rob Studdert
HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA
Tel +61-2-9554-4110
UTC(GMT)  +10 Hours
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://members.ozemail.com.au/~distudio/publications/
Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998
 

Re: SMC Fall Colors

[skye]

I'm always a sucker for photos of autumn colour and I love the
combination of reds, greens and yellows. You probably didn't have any
control over it but the one branch in the front with the furled red
leaves -- it would have been tempting for me to cut it. Right now it
hides the other branch with the spread red leaves and I don't like
that as much.

-- skye

PS good luck on your exam.

On 10/19/05, Jay Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Haven't had much time lately for photo processing or shooting for that
> matter since I am busy studying for my Architects Registration
> Examination. But here is one I snapped last weekend on the *istDS with
> the SMC FA 28-70 F4 and my newly aquired F1.7x Adapter. Trying to
> figure out if this thing is a teleconverter  or a magnified extension
> tube? Seems like it allows a much greater close focusing range. Can't
> wait to try it out with the FA 80-200.
> http://i.pbase.com/v3/87/63987/1/51005028.FallsArrival.jpg
> Comments welcome as always. Thanks for looking.
>
> Jay T
>
>

Re: Today I Was Stopped by the Police While Photographing

[dave g]

I agree with Tom (below) First of all, it is a police state. It's normal
to be stopped by the police, questioned about this or that. In other
countries, i.e. it is not a normal occurrence that the police pull you
over driving or walking. Sunbath naked on a deserted beach with no one
around and watch how fast police appear. Secondly, I think especially
when you are innocent of something, i.e. taking photos near a high
school, is when you need to politely decline to show photos or be
detained etc. It comes from the guilty until proven innocent idea. You
don't normally risk being "taken down to the station" or having a camera
confiscated for knowing your rights and expressing them calmly and
respectfully. It's like giving permission to have you car searched at a
routine traffic stop - If the police have probable cause they will just
do it, they don't need your permission. 
anyway, just a pre-coffee rant. 
dave

On Wed, 19 Oct 2005 23:19:23 -0600, "Tom C" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> To tell the truth, I think we ALREADY live in a police state.  It just 
> hasn't touched ENOUGH people's lives in an intimate enough, personal way 
> that they realize it.  And... it's creeping.
> 
> And if you can't tell from most of my personal statements, I'm overall 
> fairly conservative with a keen sense of fairness and awareness that
> others 
> rightly hold views that are at odds with my own.
> 
> I do have to say that I agree with you on this point. If I were a woman
> and 
> not a man, I would probably be more scared in the situations you referred 
> to.
> 
> Tom C.
> 
> >From: "E.R.N. Reed" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> >With all respect, I disagree with your conclusion that this will lead to a 
> >police state, by the way, but I don't think we need to bother arguing about 
> >it.
> 
> 
-- 
  dave g
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

-- 
http://www.fastmail.fm - mmm... Fastmail...

RE: I'm back & 5D news

[Tom C]

I have done no thought or research whatsoever on this topic.  How does it 
work?


Tom C.





From: Andre Langevin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
Subject: RE: I'm back & 5D news
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 21:43:43 -0400

Yeah, I want to hear a report on the 5D.  My finger's already sitting on 
the button that says 'PLACE YOUR ORDER'.


Thanks.

Tom C.


I wonder how the best SMC Takumar (15mm, slow 24mm, 35/2, 50/1.4, 85/1.8, 
135/2.5ii) would behave on a full-frame...  I keep an arsenal in case. M42 
adapters are cheap.


Andre

Re: Pentax DSLR future

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

On Oct 19, 2005, at 9:19 PM, Rob Studdert wrote:

So does anyone reckon seriously that Pentax's next DSLR will be  
spec'd anywhere

near as well as the non-pro Canon 5D?

All the arguments for hanging about waiting for Pentax are wearing  
very thin

these days.


LOL ... I'm not waiting for Pentax or anyone else. I'm just using the  
DS because it works. ;-)


Godfrey

Re: K T6-2X converter with 135/1.8 and 300/4.5 ?

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

On Oct 19, 2005, at 7:48 PM, Fred wrote:

Is the K T6-2X converter as good as the A 2X-S converter with  
these two

lenses?


I have used both TC's with a number of telephotos (including the F*
300/4.5, but not including the A* 135/1.8 - I usually only use a TC  
with
longer lenses), and I have never noticed any significant  
difference.  The

T6-2x is more compact (shorter), but the A 2X-S has those electrical
contacts (might be more useful on the newer bodies), so it's pretty  
much a

toss-up for me.


I have the A2X-S converter. It is a joy to use with A, F, FA and DA  
lenses (although I don't have any DA lenses I'd use on it) on the  
*ist DS because you get all the metering modes.


Godfrey

Re: Today I Was Stopped by the Police While Photographing

[Tom C]

To tell the truth, I think we ALREADY live in a police state.  It just 
hasn't touched ENOUGH people's lives in an intimate enough, personal way 
that they realize it.  And... it's creeping.


And if you can't tell from most of my personal statements, I'm overall 
fairly conservative with a keen sense of fairness and awareness that others 
rightly hold views that are at odds with my own.


I do have to say that I agree with you on this point. If I were a woman and 
not a man, I would probably be more scared in the situations you referred 
to.


Tom C.


From: "E.R.N. Reed" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


With all respect, I disagree with your conclusion that this will lead to a 
police state, by the way, but I don't think we need to bother arguing about 
it.

SMC Fall Colors

[Jay Taylor]

Haven't had much time lately for photo processing or shooting for that 
matter since I am busy studying for my Architects Registration 
Examination. But here is one I snapped last weekend on the *istDS with 
the SMC FA 28-70 F4 and my newly aquired F1.7x Adapter. Trying to 
figure out if this thing is a teleconverter  or a magnified extension 
tube? Seems like it allows a much greater close focusing range. Can't 
wait to try it out with the FA 80-200.

http://i.pbase.com/v3/87/63987/1/51005028.FallsArrival.jpg
Comments welcome as always. Thanks for looking.

Jay T

Re: PS Camera Raw - camera profile - *istD

[Don Williams]

Hi,

What did you need to do to get CS to run?

D

Kenneth Waller wrote:
I finally upgraded one of my PCs to where I can run PS CS2. I'll now be 
shooting RAW & was wondering if any of the PS guru's here have any 
comments on the *istD camera profile in ACR 3.0 or 2.4.

Do you use the default settings in PS or what?


Kenneth Waller




--
Dr E D F Williams
___
http://personal.inet.fi/cool/don.williams
See feature: The Cement Company from Hell
Updated: Photomicro Link -- 18 05 2005

Re: Today I Was Stopped by the Police While Photographing

[E.R.N. Reed]

graywolf wrote:

Well, one of the reasons people wind up living in a police state is 
that they call the police about everything and nothing. Soon the 
police are so used to inquiring about everybody's business they think 
they that is their job. I still think this is a result of so many 
people having moved here from countries where that is the norm (not 
you personally, Eleanor), so that they do it without thinking. 


I'm guessing TV-induced fearfulness; I don't think it's the newcomers to 
America who are doing all this calling.
But consider this, Graywolf. As a man, first you consider confronting 
the nuisance (noisy people in your example) or the "questionable 
characters" (assume for a moment that you actually think somebody is 
creepy and want to be sure he's not a threat) yourself.  So, you might 
go talk to the person yourself, as you said. But sad to say, there are a 
lot of women who don't get out much and read horror stories in 
magazines, they watch docudramas on TV, and they receive, believe and 
forward all those emails beginning "Share this with all the women you 
care about!! This email could save your life!!  ... " -- well, those 
women are not going to confront ANY strange man. They might possibly 
work up the courage to ask questions of another woman, but you know, the 
word is bogeyMAN not bogeyperson! (And the same emails recommend going 
to the cops if you feel unsafe. And obviously that's what they're for, 
but some people are getting a very exaggerated idea of when they should 
be feeling unsafe.)
The newspaper story about the guy in the football stadium in San Antonio 
said the cops were consulted by a mother and daughter. And if I were a 
gambling person, I would bet that the person who called the cops on Shel 
was also a female, and probably one who's led a sheltered life.
With all respect, I disagree with your conclusion that this will lead to 
a police state, by the way, but I don't think we need to bother arguing 
about it. I'm sure we at least agree it *does* tend to make life a bit 
more awkward. I still think the police probably don't like it any more 
than the rest of us do. Wastes their time, after all, having to either 
go annoy Shel or else face grumbling that they didn't follow up on the 
complaint.


ERN

Re: Today I Was Stopped by the Police While Photographing

[Shel Belinkoff]

In all honesty, I can't answer that.  The cop commented both on my use of
the camera and that I was sitting on the hydrant.  Maybe it was the
combination of the two that got the original caller suspicious or
concerned.  I did explain to the cop that I needed to sit and rest every
now and then because of my back pain.  Perhaps having a camera and sitting
on a hydrant (certainly not a common sight around here)combined with the
fact that the caller didn't recognize me from the neighborhood, all
contributed.

I don't like the direction in which things are going these days -
restrictions of rights and freedoms, more suspicious and paranoid people,
the fear with which so many people live, and the number of people who live
isolated lives - lives with few, if any friends, families scattered around
the country or the world, and so on.

Add to the mix some of the truly nasty things that have happened to
children, that have happened in the worlds of politics and international
relations, the wedge that's been placed between people with different ideas
and ways of living, and we have a situation that's getting out of hand.

I don't know the answer, but I can understand the concern for such goings
on in Albany, California.  I don't like it, but I understand it.

Shel 




> [Original Message]
> From: William Robb 


> Would you have been viewed with sufficient suspicion to have warranted a 
> police questioning if you were just a tired older guy walking down the 
> street resting every now and again?
> Or was it the camera that instigated the police intrusion?

Re: Today I Was Stopped by the Police While Photographing

[Tom C]

From: "William Robb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>




Would you have been viewed with sufficient suspicion to have warranted a 
police questioning if you were just a tired older guy walking down the 
street resting every now and again?

Or was it the camera that instigated the police intrusion?



The real truth is, nothing warrants that intrusion.  It's equivalent to 
saying you're guilty and now we're going to investigate it.  If you're 
innocent...


It's a pre-emptive action lacking any crime as a provocation.

It's like putting little yellow smiley face stickers on items you bring in 
the store at Wal-mart.  It is creeping horseshit.


Tom C.

Re: Today I Was Stopped by the Police While Photographing

[Tom C]

Back in the USSA!

Tom C.





From: "William Robb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
To: 
Subject: Re: Today I Was Stopped by the Police While Photographing
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 22:40:52 -0600


- Original Message - From: "Shel Belinkoff"
Subject: Re: Today I Was Stopped by the Police While Photographing





What is the answer?  Hell, I don't know, but I do know that, if I were a
parent i might like to have the peace of mind that someone is keeping an
eye out on my kids, or that there's a neighborhood watch, or that the
neighbors look in on and care for and about one another.


Would you have been viewed with sufficient suspicion to have warranted a 
police questioning if you were just a tired older guy walking down the 
street resting every now and again?

Or was it the camera that instigated the police intrusion?

William Robb

Re: Today I Was Stopped by the Police While Photographing

[William Robb]

- Original Message - 
From: "Shel Belinkoff"

Subject: Re: Today I Was Stopped by the Police While Photographing





What is the answer?  Hell, I don't know, but I do know that, if I were a
parent i might like to have the peace of mind that someone is keeping an
eye out on my kids, or that there's a neighborhood watch, or that the
neighbors look in on and care for and about one another.


Would you have been viewed with sufficient suspicion to have warranted a 
police questioning if you were just a tired older guy walking down the 
street resting every now and again?

Or was it the camera that instigated the police intrusion?

William Robb

Re: Today I Was Stopped by the Police While Photographing

[Shel Belinkoff]

Well, I don't know how to respond to this.  On the one hand I agree with
you - what's the big deal about some old fart wandering around taking
pictures.  OTOH, you've got to understand a little bit about the
communities here.  Where I was today is a small community, mostly inhabited
by older people and young people just moving in.  I also know that over the
years there have been a number of kidnappings and child molestations in the
general area.  Even fifteen years ago one of my staff wouldn't let her kid
play outside unsupervised - and she and her husband lived in a very safe
part of town.  IOW, shit has happened here.  In addition, Albany, the town
I was in, like a few others that border it and are in the same general
area, has a very strong sense of community, very similar to the community
in which I grew up, where people looked out for one another.  If I was
goofing off on my way to school, you can bet Mrs. Snitow or Mike Lewis's
parents, who weren't even good friends with my parents, would let my folks
know what I was up to.

It's interesting how many people lament the passing of this type of
community involvement, this kind of "keeping an eye out," but at the same
time so many complain that people should mind their own business.  I
suppose there's a fine line between being nosey and annoying and being
concerned and helpful, but on the whole, I'd much prefer living in a
community where there's more of a spirit of helpfulness and concern than
everyone living behind locked doors and drawn shades and not knowing their
neighbors.

I remember the horror of the Kitty Genovese murder.  She was killed in the
courtyard of her apartment building in 1964.  More than thirty people
either saw or heard her being murdered.  No one called the police or did
anything to help.  No one wanted to "get involved."  Dozens of people stood
by and watched a woman being brutally assaulted for an extended period of
time, and did nothing.  This took place near where i grew up, in a quiet,
pleasant, residential neighborhood - my police precinct.

When you put what happened to me today in the context of the missing
children whose portraits you see on milk cartons, in the context of parents
afraid to let their kids play in their own front yards with good cause -
not some vague fear installed by stories  but the fact of neighborhood
children being disappeared or molested - maybe it's a better thing that
people pay attention to the comings and goings in their communities.

Did I like being stopped today.  No, damn it, I didn't.  There's the
thought that I was being harassed, that being stopped and questioned - very
politely I'll add again - was uncalled for.  And then I think of the
portraits of the missing children on the milk cartons, that my friends
moved to a safer community because of their fears for their children, those
fears having a basis in reality.

The world has changed, and it's easy to say that we - as photographers who
wish to just make a few pictures - are being harassed and picked upon.  And
maybe we are to some degree.  I certainly don't like it.  But I also don't
like living in a community where nobody gives a shit about their neighbors
and friends.  I like Albany, and El Cerrito, and parts of Berkeley because
there are neighborhood groups that keep a watch out.  A few years ago a
client of mine had her home burgled.  The thieves got a lot of stuff.  In
talking with the cops we found that there'd been a recent string of
burglaries in the area - but none of the people whose homes were burgled
shared the information with the community, set up a neighborhood watch, or
got involved with anyone else in any way.  And so one by one more than a
dozen homes were hit.  That's what can happen when everyone minds their own
business.

What is the answer?  Hell, I don't know, but I do know that, if I were a
parent i might like to have the peace of mind that someone is keeping an
eye out on my kids, or that there's a neighborhood watch, or that the
neighbors look in on and care for and about one another.

I guess everyone will have to decide for themselves where they'll draw the
line.  It's easy for some of you to say that I should have been more
assertive of my "rights," but being handcuffed and tossed into the back of
a patrol car in front of a dozen onlookers can really ruin your day. 
That's happened to me once because I was a smart ass.  

Anyway, enough of this ... back to editing some pix.

Shel 


> [Original Message]
> From: graywolf 

> Well, one of the reasons people wind up living in a police state is that 
> they call the police about everything and nothing. Soon the police are 
> so used to inquiring about everybody's business they think they that is 
> their job. I still think this is a result of so many people having moved 
> here from countries where that is the norm (not you personally, 
> Eleanor), so that they do it without thinking. Of course I would guess 
> that most folks from repressive areas might still b

Pentax DSLR future

[Rob Studdert]

So does anyone reckon seriously that Pentax's next DSLR will be spec'd anywhere 
near as well as the non-pro Canon 5D?

All the arguments for hanging about waiting for Pentax are wearing very thin 
these days.


Rob Studdert
HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA
Tel +61-2-9554-4110
UTC(GMT)  +10 Hours
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://members.ozemail.com.au/~distudio/publications/
Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998

Re: PS Camera Raw - camera profile - *istD

[Rob Studdert]

On 19 Oct 2005 at 18:25, William Robb wrote:

> > However, changing the exposure and shadow frequently alters the color a 
> > bit as well. Like Bill, I tend to work back and forth a bit, but I try to 
> > get
> > close on the exposure, brightness, and shadow first.
> 
> I find if this is happening, I generally want to revisit my white balance 
> after fiddling around with the RGB slope.

Slight gamma problems can cause a shift in colour as the overall brightness an 
the image is altered. As an aside, according to my monitor cal software help 
file my monitor is so well calibrated that I should consider taking a trip to 
Vegas :-)


Rob Studdert
HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA
Tel +61-2-9554-4110
UTC(GMT)  +10 Hours
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://members.ozemail.com.au/~distudio/publications/
Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998

Re: GESO - Norcal PDML outing - streets of San Francisco

[keith_w]

P. J. Alling wrote:


An interfaith couple then...




Bruce Dayton wrote:


Hello keith_w,

Yes indeed. A nice Nikkormat at that.


Yes, you might say that. I think it's healthy.  ;-)

keith

Re: More Texas Photo Issues

[Tom C]

You're not referring to that Olympic skater guy named Elvis again are you... 
are you?


Tom C.





From: "William Robb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
To: 
Subject: Re: More Texas Photo Issues
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 21:49:42 -0600


- Original Message - From: "Tom C"
Subject: Re: More Texas Photo Issues





He informed us that they had aphids.  However, he also told us that 
Canadian aphids were the same as American aphids.  :-)  I highly suspect 
it's the same with homosapiens.


Canadian aphids have developed feet like tiny little skates.

William Robb

Re: More Texas Photo Issues

[Gonz]

Tom C wrote:
We crossed over the border from Canada to the USA 7/8 years back with 
some Alberta Spruces, and other plants we purchased at a nursery in 
B.C.  We were delayed and had to go to the US agriculture office and 
find the official.  He asked to see that we had purchased them at a 
bonafide nursery and then inspected the plants.




Yup, everytime we visit Mexico and bring back anything remotely green, 
we have to go through a rigamaro of questions, even tho we probably know 
the customs law alot better than the officials there.  Personally, I 
think they just take this stuff away and bring it home as free spoils of 
the job.


He informed us that they had aphids.  However, he also told us that 
Canadian aphids were the same as American aphids.  :-)  I highly suspect 
it's the same with homosapiens.





LOL!


Tom C.


From: Gonz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>





 Next time we just took a CD with us, even though it was a big hassle 
having to install it at the customer site, it was less of a hassle 
than dealing with the brain dead Canadian customs officials and 
regulations.

Re: More Texas Photo Issues

[Gonz]

William Robb wrote:


- Original Message - From: "Gonz"
Subject: Re: More Texas Photo Issues



it was less of a hassle than dealing with the brain dead Canadian 
customs officials and regulations.




Don't get me going on Canada Customs. They are La Cosa Nostra, Northern 
Division.




LOL!

Re: Today I Was Stopped by the Police While Photographing

[Tom C]

I'm normally not a trouble maker and attempt to be a law abiding citizen.  
The reason you just stated though is why I would probably go through the 
roof and stand my ground, just to press and make a point.  I might then find 
an attorney who would only get paid if he won a harassment lawsuit (It's 
easy to talk big on the net).


I realize the policeman Shel dealt with approached the situation with 
kid-gloves, which is very very much to his credit.  In that exact situation 
I probably would not have felt too confrontational, either.


I agree that the more rope you give government and law enforcement, the more 
rope they run with, the more people get tangled up, rightly or wrongly.


The probem with this sector of societies is that they're *looking* for 
something that's wrong, flawed, or unusual.  It's guaranteed that if you 
hold any situation under the microscope, innocent or not, someone will see 
something suspicious, something dangerous, something that requires 
intervention.


Tom C.


From: graywolf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


Well, one of the reasons people wind up living in a police state is that 
they call the police about everything and nothing. Soon the police are so 
used to inquiring about everybody's business they think they that is their 
job.

Re: More Texas Photo Issues

[William Robb]

- Original Message - 
From: "Tom C"

Subject: Re: More Texas Photo Issues





He informed us that they had aphids.  However, he also told us that 
Canadian aphids were the same as American aphids.  :-)  I highly suspect 
it's the same with homosapiens.


Canadian aphids have developed feet like tiny little skates.

William Robb 

Re: PS Camera Raw - camera profile - *istD

[William Robb]

- Original Message - 
From: "Paul Stenquist"

Subject: Re: PS Camera Raw - camera profile - *istD


I agree that when using the eyedropper, it's easy to set the WB. I do that 
from time to time. However, I frequently find that I prefer something a bit 
warmer than what the white card method yields. It my not be true to life, 
but I like a slightly warm look. Of course sunset and sunrise are warmer 
than what a white card method would yield, so I guess in some cases a warm 
look is true to life.


I believe Bob Shell posted a link to a company that makes slightly blue gray 
cards that will cause your camera to warm things up a bit if you white 
balance off them.

I lost or didn't save the URL though.

William Robb 

Re: Today I Was Stopped by the Police While Photographing

[William Robb]

- Original Message - 
From: "graywolf" 
Subject: Re: Today I Was Stopped by the Police While Photographing






And reading Amita's report, I guess I have to admit that I was wrong 
about them never hassling women.


Amita may have been racially profiled, rather than age/gender profiled.

William Robb

Re: PESO PAW - Gus and His Tractor

[Scott Loveless]

I like this one, Shel.  Reminds me of the farmers around here.  Your
photo imparts feelings of toughness, fatigue, and perseverance.  Good
shot.

On 10/19/05, Shel Belinkoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Last year about this time a friend and I took a drive into the country.  We
> discovered a small farm that, during holidays, operates rides and
> amusements for kids.  Gus, one of the owners, was telling us that if it
> weren't for this "sideline" business, he'd have to sell the farm - a
> situation that's not unusual for small family farms these days.  Anyway,
> here's Gus with his old Farmall tractor - one of a few he uses for giving
> the kids hay rides.  I liked Gus 
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~scbelinkoff/gustractor.html (250K +/-)
>
> Pic made with Sony DSC-S85
>
>
> Shel
>
>
>


--
Scott Loveless
http://www.twosixteen.com

--
"You have to hold the button down" -Arnold Newman

Re: Today I Was Stopped by the Police While Photographing

[William Robb]

Creeping Horseshit, people.

William Robb

Re: More Texas Photo Issues

[William Robb]

- Original Message - 
From: "Gonz"

Subject: Re: More Texas Photo Issues



it was less of a hassle than dealing with the brain dead Canadian customs 
officials and regulations.



Don't get me going on Canada Customs. They are La Cosa Nostra, Northern 
Division.


So far, our laws relating to public photography haven't become as intrusive 
to the photographer as the one you are dealing with (well, those of you who 
disagree with it anyway).
For some reason, it is a problem if a person is photographing children in 
public swimming pools, and I have heard of a few people who have been 
interceded with while doing this.
I'm not even sure if there is a specific law regarding it, or if it is 
unnofficial repression.


William Robb

Re: Today I Was Stopped by the Police While Photographing

[graywolf]

I guess part of the problem is cel-phones. Someone has a paranoid 
thought, and they have called the police before they have a chance to 
thing about it first. The hard part for the detainee (and make not 
mistake you are being detained from going on about your business) is if 
you cooperate you are furthering the idea that the cops here have the 
right to do this, and if you refuse to cooperate it is going to turn 
into a real hassle. I guess I am lucky I am now living in a small town. 
Eventually the cops recognize you and just tell folks who call in that 
you are harmless.


And reading Amita's report, I guess I have to admit that I was wrong 
about them never hassling women.


graywolf
http://www.graywolfphoto.com
"Idiot Proof" <==> "Expert Proof"
---



Amita Guha wrote:


See, here's a point I think was mostly missed in an earlier thread (I
pointed it out but I don't know if anybody picked up on it) -- It's not
necessarily a case of "police want to harass" as that some people get
suspicious and call them, and then they have to make inquiries --
   



I'm almost certain that this is what happened when I was stopped by
the cops, because there was no one around except a couple of women
walking their kids, and then a few minutes later there were 2 cop cars
behind me.

Shel, I'm sorry to hear that this happened to you. I know how
upsetting it can be to get stopped by the cops when you were just
enjoying a pleasant day of shooting. I'm glad the guy didn't give you
a hard time.

Amita


 

Re: More Texas Photo Issues

[Tom C]

We crossed over the border from Canada to the USA 7/8 years back with some 
Alberta Spruces, and other plants we purchased at a nursery in B.C.  We were 
delayed and had to go to the US agriculture office and find the official.  
He asked to see that we had purchased them at a bonafide nursery and then 
inspected the plants.


He informed us that they had aphids.  However, he also told us that Canadian 
aphids were the same as American aphids.  :-)  I highly suspect it's the 
same with homosapiens.


Tom C.


From: Gonz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>




 Next time we just took a CD with us, even though it was a big hassle 
having to install it at the customer site, it was less of a hassle than 
dealing with the brain dead Canadian customs officials and regulations.

Re: Anyone going to the Photoplus show?

[Scott Loveless]

On 10/19/05, Amita Guha <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Anything else you want me to ask them? They are usually more
> accessible than, say, the Nikon people. ;)
>

Yeah.  Find out if there's a new film body in the works.  


--
Scott Loveless
http://www.twosixteen.com

--
"You have to hold the button down" -Arnold Newman

Re: I'm back & 5D news

[Tom C]

Thank you very much Amita!

Tom C.





From: Amita Guha <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
Subject: Re: I'm back & 5D news
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 22:36:14 -0400

On 10/19/05, Tom C <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Yeah, I want to hear a report on the 5D.  My finger's already sitting on 
the

> button that says 'PLACE YOUR ORDER'.

LOL!  Nate did that for about a day before he pulled the trigger.

Nate says that he's having to relearn how to process the photos coming
out of the 5D. Its sensor has a weaker anti-aliasing filter, similar
to what's on the Nikon sensors, so he's having to learn how to strike
the right balance between correct color and sharpness. Skin tones are
very nice, and there isn't a lot of noise.

Size, build and controls quality are similiar to the 20D, if you're
familiar with it, but the 5D is heavier and doesn't have a popup
flash. He says the shutter doesn't feel as nice as the 20D's.

He also says that his normal-thickness UV filters are causing
vignetting, so he's going to have to get some thin ones.

I'll let you know more as he learns more about the camera.

Re: Pornography Issues in Photo Labs. Was: Texas Photo Issues

[Tom C]

You make me laugh, but I believe you.

Tom C.


From: "P. J. Alling" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

The right to be left alone disappeared with the beginning of the Nanny 
State in the late 1930's under FDR.  It wasn't very intrusive at first but 
that's when the camels head entered the tent.  I'll be very hard to evict 
now that it's fully ensconced on the couch smoking from the hookah.

Re: Today I Was Stopped by the Police While Photographing

[graywolf]

Well, one of the reasons people wind up living in a police state is that 
they call the police about everything and nothing. Soon the police are 
so used to inquiring about everybody's business they think they that is 
their job. I still think this is a result of so many people having moved 
here from countries where that is the norm (not you personally, 
Eleanor), so that they do it without thinking. Of course I would guess 
that most folks from repressive areas might still be leery of calling 
the cops for any reason including violence to their person. However, 
when I was growing up no one called the cops unless there was something 
involving violence or theft.


But being honest, these days I have learned to call the cops about noisy 
neighbors, usually drunken college students at 1am. On the other hand I 
submit that I try to talk to them first.  And only when they make it 
clear that they feel their right to make noise is more important to them 
than my right to peace and quite do I call in the blue-suits My thinking 
is that is a better thing to do than  rearranging the shape of their 
head, or removing it and placing it where it belongs.


I really and firmly believe that short of actually seriously annoying 
people, folks ought to have the right to do their own thing without 
being harassed by the cops. And do I consider what happened to Shell to 
be harassment pure and simple. What ever happened to presumed innocence? 
How does taking photos of fully clothed kids in public places become a 
crime except in the minds of the seriously deranged?


And the fact is the police do not investigate every complaint that is 
called in, they would need 10 times as many officers than they now have. 
Officer there is a man walking down the street in the dark. Officer 
there is a car driving slowly by checking out house numbers. Officer 
there is a man hanging around in front of the convenience store. And it 
is always a man, no one calls in as says there is a woman doing these 
things, although women are as likely as a man to go for a walk, or drive 
by trying to find a particular address, or wait for someone in front of 
the convenience store. These days it seems like people are considered 
guilty of what they might do, rather than what they are doing or have 
done. Check out that old guy taking pictures, and resting on fire 
hydrants, he must be a pervert. And it happened in a suburb of San 
Francisco for crying out loud, that is the scariest part of Shel's story.



graywolf
http://www.graywolfphoto.com
"Idiot Proof" <==> "Expert Proof"
---



E.R.N. Reed wrote:


Shel Belinkoff wrote:


... I had no intention of turning it into a
pissing match with a cop who was only doing the job his community wanted
him to do.  He was polite - almost to the point of being apologetic - 
and a

gentleman, and we shook hands when the encounter was over.

See, here's a point I think was mostly missed in an earlier thread (I 
pointed it out but I don't know if anybody picked up on it) -- It's 
not necessarily a case of "police want to harass" as that some people 
get suspicious and call them, and then they have to make inquiries -- 
knowing that most of the time it's going to be "nothing" but once in 
some large number of times, it might be "something." (Like, how many 
people ever pulled over for a missing licence plate had just bombed a 
Federal building?)


Personally I don't understand the mindset behind calling the cops on a 
person with a camera in the vicinity of a high school (I don't even 
get excited about "person with a camera in the vicinity of a 
playground" -- I generally assume the latter are parents, grandparents 
or otherwise connected to the children, after all that's why *I*'m 
there with my camera) but apparently that particular paranoid mindset 
exists. The police are probably about as tired of it as the 
photographers with whom they have these casual little chats.


(If "strange person with camera near a playground" strikes up 
conversation with my child at a distance from me, I'd start taking a 
close interest, but otherwise, no.)


I take it this story means you're on the mend physically, Shel? Good 
to hear, if so.


ERNR

Re: Anyone going to the Photoplus show?

[Amita Guha]

> Anyone going to the photoplus show at the Javits in NYC? I'm not going to be
> able to make it this year and am curious to find out if a working
> pre-production 645D (or whatever they are going to call it) or any other new
> bodies and lenses are in the near release stage. Also, anything else
> interesting, please keep us informed.

 I am planning to go on Saturday. I'll let you know if I see anything
interesting. Should I ask the Pentax guys about a digital 645?
Anything else you want me to ask them? They are usually more
accessible than, say, the Nikon people. ;)

Amita

Re: Today I Was Stopped by the Police While Photographing

[Amita Guha]

> See, here's a point I think was mostly missed in an earlier thread (I
> pointed it out but I don't know if anybody picked up on it) -- It's not
> necessarily a case of "police want to harass" as that some people get
> suspicious and call them, and then they have to make inquiries --

I'm almost certain that this is what happened when I was stopped by
the cops, because there was no one around except a couple of women
walking their kids, and then a few minutes later there were 2 cop cars
behind me.

Shel, I'm sorry to hear that this happened to you. I know how
upsetting it can be to get stopped by the cops when you were just
enjoying a pleasant day of shooting. I'm glad the guy didn't give you
a hard time.

Amita

Anyone going to the Photoplus show?

[Butch Black]

Hi Guys

Anyone going to the photoplus show at the Javits in NYC? I'm not going to be 
able to make it this year and am curious to find out if a working 
pre-production 645D (or whatever they are going to call it) or any other new 
bodies and lenses are in the near release stage. Also, anything else 
interesting, please keep us informed.


Butch 

Re: K T6-2X converter with 135/1.8 and 300/4.5 ?

[Fred]

> Is the K T6-2X converter as good as the A 2X-S converter with these two
> lenses?

I have used both TC's with a number of telephotos (including the F*
300/4.5, but not including the A* 135/1.8 - I usually only use a TC with
longer lenses), and I have never noticed any significant difference.  The
T6-2x is more compact (shorter), but the A 2X-S has those electrical
contacts (might be more useful on the newer bodies), so it's pretty much a
toss-up for me.

Fred

Re: More Texas Photo Issues

[David Mann]

On Oct 19, 2005, at 5:00 PM, William Robb wrote:


A religion which believes in God, though which God is not specified.
Personally, I believe in the teachings of the Church of Our Lady in  
Perpetual Motion.


You just reminded me of this:

http://www.venganza.org/

- Dave

Re: GESO - Norcal PDML outing - streets of San Francisco

[P. J. Alling]

An interfaith couple then...

Bruce Dayton wrote:


Hello keith_w,

Yes indeed. A nice Nikkormat at that.

 




--
When you're worried or in doubt, 
	Run in circles, (scream and shout).

Re: Today I Was Stopped by the Police While Photographing

[E.R.N. Reed]

Shel Belinkoff wrote:


... I had no intention of turning it into a
pissing match with a cop who was only doing the job his community wanted
him to do.  He was polite - almost to the point of being apologetic - and a
gentleman, and we shook hands when the encounter was over.

See, here's a point I think was mostly missed in an earlier thread (I 
pointed it out but I don't know if anybody picked up on it) -- It's not 
necessarily a case of "police want to harass" as that some people get 
suspicious and call them, and then they have to make inquiries -- 
knowing that most of the time it's going to be "nothing" but once in 
some large number of times, it might be "something." (Like, how many 
people ever pulled over for a missing licence plate had just bombed a 
Federal building?)


Personally I don't understand the mindset behind calling the cops on a 
person with a camera in the vicinity of a high school (I don't even get 
excited about "person with a camera in the vicinity of a playground" -- 
I generally assume the latter are parents, grandparents or otherwise 
connected to the children, after all that's why *I*'m there with my 
camera) but apparently that particular paranoid mindset exists. The 
police are probably about as tired of it as the photographers with whom 
they have these casual little chats.


(If "strange person with camera near a playground" strikes up 
conversation with my child at a distance from me, I'd start taking a 
close interest, but otherwise, no.)


I take it this story means you're on the mend physically, Shel? Good to 
hear, if so.


ERNR

Re: More Texas Photo Issues

[Gonz]

William Robb wrote:


- Original Message - From: "Gonz" Subject: Re: More Texas Photo 
Issues








Thanks, luck helps, but democracy takes work too.



To bad you don't live in one.


Not exactly, but close enough.  Its still malleable enough.  We had an 
oppressive "robin hood" law here that attempted to take from the "rich" 
school districts and give to the "poor".  It didn't do anything more 
than create another beauracracy.  It was overturned, by a lawsuit 
initiated by the people.  If people dont like laws, they *can* be 
changed or removed.  It happens here in the good ole state of TX all the 
time.


Canada has just as stupid of a system of laws and officials (I'm not 
assuming that you are ignorant of this, I assume you know this already). 
 I once spent 4 hours in Ottawa trying to get through customs because 
some dolt did not like the "computer" I was taking in for a demo to a 
company in Ottawa and wanted me to post an import bond for this thing. 
As if I wanted to sell the damn thing.  The real value was in the 
software, which the user could download off our website.  The computer 
was taken because it was pre-loaded with the software we were selling, 
which retailed at more than $200,000 (the software).  Next time we just 
took a CD with us, even though it was a big hassle having to install it 
at the customer site, it was less of a hassle than dealing with the 
brain dead Canadian customs officials and regulations.




William Robb

Re: I'm back & 5D news

[Amita Guha]

On 10/19/05, Tom C <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Yeah, I want to hear a report on the 5D.  My finger's already sitting on the
> button that says 'PLACE YOUR ORDER'.

LOL!  Nate did that for about a day before he pulled the trigger.

Nate says that he's having to relearn how to process the photos coming
out of the 5D. Its sensor has a weaker anti-aliasing filter, similar
to what's on the Nikon sensors, so he's having to learn how to strike
the right balance between correct color and sharpness. Skin tones are
very nice, and there isn't a lot of noise.

Size, build and controls quality are similiar to the 20D, if you're
familiar with it, but the 5D is heavier and doesn't have a popup
flash. He says the shutter doesn't feel as nice as the 20D's.

He also says that his normal-thickness UV filters are causing
vignetting, so he's going to have to get some thin ones.

I'll let you know more as he learns more about the camera.

Re: PESO -- Summer's Over

[P. J. Alling]

Thanks guys I appreciate it.

frank theriault wrote:


On 10/11/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
 


Interesting concept. Well executed. I like it.
Paul


   


It's the season...

Well actually it's a gloomy drizzly day, I've been working on a software
project with almost no human contact, and I took a few minutes off to
take the dog for a walk.

http://www.mindspring.com/~webster26/PESO_--_summersover.html

Technical Info:
Pentax *ist-D ISO 400 @ 1/100sec
smc Pentax-FA 43mm f1.9 Limited @ 145mm f6.3

--
When you're worried or in doubt,
 Run in circles, (scream and shout).
 



did i already say i like this?

well, i do.  it's the hanging goggles that do it for me...

-frank


--
"Sharpness is a bourgeois concept."  -Henri Cartier-Bresson


 




--
When you're worried or in doubt, 
	Run in circles, (scream and shout).

Re: Pornography Issues in Photo Labs. Was: Texas Photo Issues

[P. J. Alling]

The right to be left alone disappeared with the beginning of the Nanny 
State in the late 1930's under FDR.  It wasn't very intrusive at first 
but that's when the camels head entered the tent.  I'll be very hard to 
evict now that it's fully ensconced on the couch smoking from the hookah.


Bob Shell wrote:



On Wednesday, October 19, 2005, at 03:01  PM, Jens Bladt wrote:


So, is pornography illegal???



Supposedly not, but our new Attorney General is now setting up an FBI 
anti-pornography squad in DC.  Seems like our government would have 
some genuinely important things to expend manpower and resources on.



In Denmark pornography became leagal sometime in the sixties.
Kiddy porn is illegal here as well. Kiddy porn is if the of involved 
persons

is below 15.



In the USA the magic age is 18.  Anyone under 18 is a child under the 
law.  Suddenly, on the 18th birthday some magical event occurs and the 
person becomes an adult.  Of course they still can't legally drink 
alcohol until another magical date, their 21st birthday!




As fa as I'm concerned people can photograph pretty mucch what ever they
want. I guess labs can't legally make Kiddy Porn prints, though.



I'm in favor of an important right that the authors of our 
Constitution and Bill of Rights left out, the right to be left alone.  
If you are not hurting someone else or otherwise infringing on their 
rights, your right to be left alone should be absolute.


"I do not want a government that takes care of me.  I want a 
government that keeps other men's hands off of me so that I can take 
care of myself." -- Woodrow Wilson


Bob





--
When you're worried or in doubt, 
	Run in circles, (scream and shout).

Re: I'm back & 5D news

[Amita Guha]

> Nothing like that. We spent the time and a hell of a lot of bandwidth
> arguing about the perceived lack of support for the old lenses.

What, the green button hack isn't good enough for some people? :)

> Oh yeah, Shel is now dancing with the devil.

So I saw. Go Shel!

Amita

RE: Today I Was Stopped by the Police While Photographing

[Shel Belinkoff]

No, I'm not making this up ... 

There are times when I'd take a more aggressive approach, but I really
didn't want to argue, have my camera confiscated, or any of that bullshit. 
It was a lovely, warm, sunny day - the first in more than a week that I
could get out and walk around - and I had no intention of turning it into a
pissing match with a cop who was only doing the job his community wanted
him to do.  He was polite - almost to the point of being apologetic - and a
gentleman, and we shook hands when the encounter was over.

Plus, I intend to photograph in that neighborhood again.  Since I was
stopped and my name and info was taken, I'd much rather have the cops on my
side, perhaps remembering that I'm one of the good guys.

No, I didn't like it - I felt that being stopped was an intrusion and an
invasion of my privacy, and I was tempted not to offer to let him see the
pix - but he was going to ask anyway.  Why not make the unpleasant and
annoying situation as good as it could be.  When it was over I continued on
my walk - it was just as enjoyable as it had been before the encounter, and
I got a sense, to some degree, what the cops have to deal with.  

Shel 


> [Original Message]
> From: Tom C 

> I might have got arrested... I probably would not have offered to show
him 
> the pictures, and I would have probably refused if asked.
>
> You probably did the right thing... but it's sort of sick to think that's 
> it's come to this.
>
> You're not making it up are you?
>
> Tom C.
>
>
>
>
> >From: "Shel Belinkoff" 

> >Earlier today I was walking from a friend's house to my bank, about a
mile
> >away.  It's a straight walk down one main street.  It was a perfect day
to
> >practice exposures with the isrDS.  I photographed mostly junk - just
> >subjects that had interesting or tricky lighting - a car half in half out
> >of shadow, signs, flowers, and so on.  My back has been bothering me, and
> >this was the first long walk I've taken in a while.  Every couple of
blocks
> >I'd sit on a fire hydrant to relax the muscles.
> >
> >About 3/4 the way into the walk a police cruiser pulled up along side me,
> >and out steps a sergeant.  He politely asked what I was doing and I said
-
> >not mentioning anything about photographing - that I was out for a
stroll.
> >He asked about the camera and I told him it was my new digi, and I was
just
> >making a few random shots to get used to it.  I asked if he wanted to see
> >the pics, and I also asked why he was interested in my camera.  He said
> >that someone had called in a complaint about me - seems I was walking
past
> >a school (a high school) and decided that was a good place to sit and
rest.
> >He was concerned that I might have been taking pictures of children.  As
it
> >happened, I only had two pix of kids on the card - one of a few guys
> >sitting in the shadow of a wall and another of a few girls running
towards
> >me.  These were all high school aged kids 
> >
> >He didn't seem to think there was anything wrong with those, thanked me
for
> >being cooperative and friendly (after running my info through their
> >system), and suggested I be careful when using a camera near children. 
We
> >talked a little - he really didn't want to hang around too long - and he
> >told me that the world has changed radically since I started
photographing
> >back in 1967.
> >
> >I guess it has ... 

Re: Today I Was Stopped by the Police While Photographing

[Scott Loveless]

On 10/19/05, Shel Belinkoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> He didn't seem to think there was anything wrong with those, thanked me for
> being cooperative and friendly (after running my info through their
> system),

Papers, please.


--
Scott Loveless
http://www.twosixteen.com

--
"You have to hold the button down" -Arnold Newman

Re: More Texas Photo Issues

[P. J. Alling]

By the way "In God we trust." first appeared on US coinage in 1795.

keith_w wrote:


Tom Reese wrote:


Keith wrote:




The Pilgrims arriving on these shores in 1630 [or so] were fleeing
religious persecution, and when they came here, it was with a fervent
desire to practice their religion as they saw fit, without interference
from any government!

Our bill of rights even recognizes that as a fundamental right of a
citizen of the United States, the freedom of religion. The right to
practice what you believe without a government saying you may not, you
CAN not.

So, our currency and our Pledge of Allegience to the symbol of our
country recognize that 375 year old break from persecution, and says
proudly "under God."

I ask you, how much better can it be?





and I ask you how much worse can it get? 



Ahhh, the old "point of view" rears it's head...


Religion and government make a
deadly combination. See the Spanish Inquisition, the Salem witch 
trials and
the Crusades for examples. The founding fathers well knew that danger 
and

wrote the amendment to avoid it.



Okay, we don't disagree. I'm aware of history.

Religion has been subverting that amendment ever since. "In God We 
Trust"
was added to our money in 1861 at the urging of religious people. 



'Scuse me? It was the *Government* that caved! It was *they* that 
added it, not some group of religious activists. If you think it was 
someone else, name them please. The Government could always have said, 
"NO." But they didn't.


It wasn't always on there. 



Indeed not.


[The words] "under God" was added to the Pledge of Allegiance in 1954.
It wasn't always in there.



Again, no it wasn't. I remember quite clearly when it was added. I 
personally resented the addition, and have never voiced it when saying 
"the pledge."
Not because I have anything against the word God, spoken under other 
circumstances, but because it purely doesn't belong.



See here for some interesting thoughts on government and religion:

http://earlyamerica.com/review/summer97/secular.html



Excellent reference, Tom!
I've bookmarked it for further reading, for when I have a little more 
time.

I can see it will be a real eye-opener!

Thanks,

keith whaley


Tom Reese







--
When you're worried or in doubt, 
	Run in circles, (scream and shout).

RE: Today I Was Stopped by the Police While Photographing

[Tom C]

I might have got arrested... I probably would not have offered to show him 
the pictures, and I would have probably refused if asked.


You probably did the right thing... but it's sort of sick to think that's 
it's come to this.


You're not making it up are you?

Tom C.





From: "Shel Belinkoff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
Subject: Today I Was Stopped by the Police While Photographing
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 18:44:42 -0700

Earlier today I was walking from a friend's house to my bank, about a mile
away.  It's a straight walk down one main street.  It was a perfect day to
practice exposures with the isrDS.  I photographed mostly junk - just
subjects that had interesting or tricky lighting - a car half in half out
of shadow, signs, flowers, and so on.  My back has been bothering me, and
this was the first long walk I've taken in a while.  Every couple of blocks
I'd sit on a fire hydrant to relax the muscles.

About 3/4 the way into the walk a police cruiser pulled up along side me,
and out steps a sergeant.  He politely asked what I was doing and I said -
not mentioning anything about photographing - that I was out for a stroll.
He asked about the camera and I told him it was my new digi, and I was just
making a few random shots to get used to it.  I asked if he wanted to see
the pics, and I also asked why he was interested in my camera.  He said
that someone had called in a complaint about me - seems I was walking past
a school (a high school) and decided that was a good place to sit and rest.
He was concerned that I might have been taking pictures of children.  As it
happened, I only had two pix of kids on the card - one of a few guys
sitting in the shadow of a wall and another of a few girls running towards
me.  These were all high school aged kids 

He didn't seem to think there was anything wrong with those, thanked me for
being cooperative and friendly (after running my info through their
system), and suggested I be careful when using a camera near children.  We
talked a little - he really didn't want to hang around too long - and he
told me that the world has changed radically since I started photographing
back in 1967.

I guess it has ... 


Shel

Today I Was Stopped by the Police While Photographing

[Shel Belinkoff]

Earlier today I was walking from a friend's house to my bank, about a mile
away.  It's a straight walk down one main street.  It was a perfect day to
practice exposures with the isrDS.  I photographed mostly junk - just
subjects that had interesting or tricky lighting - a car half in half out
of shadow, signs, flowers, and so on.  My back has been bothering me, and
this was the first long walk I've taken in a while.  Every couple of blocks
I'd sit on a fire hydrant to relax the muscles.

About 3/4 the way into the walk a police cruiser pulled up along side me,
and out steps a sergeant.  He politely asked what I was doing and I said -
not mentioning anything about photographing - that I was out for a stroll. 
He asked about the camera and I told him it was my new digi, and I was just
making a few random shots to get used to it.  I asked if he wanted to see
the pics, and I also asked why he was interested in my camera.  He said
that someone had called in a complaint about me - seems I was walking past
a school (a high school) and decided that was a good place to sit and rest.
He was concerned that I might have been taking pictures of children.  As it
happened, I only had two pix of kids on the card - one of a few guys
sitting in the shadow of a wall and another of a few girls running towards
me.  These were all high school aged kids 

He didn't seem to think there was anything wrong with those, thanked me for
being cooperative and friendly (after running my info through their
system), and suggested I be careful when using a camera near children.  We
talked a little - he really didn't want to hang around too long - and he
told me that the world has changed radically since I started photographing
back in 1967.

I guess it has ... 


Shel 

RE: I'm back & 5D news

[Andre Langevin]

Yeah, I want to hear a report on the 5D.  My finger's already 
sitting on the button that says 'PLACE YOUR ORDER'.


Thanks.

Tom C.


I wonder how the best SMC Takumar (15mm, slow 24mm, 35/2, 50/1.4, 
85/1.8, 135/2.5ii) would behave on a full-frame...  I keep an arsenal 
in case. M42 adapters are cheap.


Andre

Re: PESO PAW - Gus and His Tractor

[P. J. Alling]

Nice portrait, gives me a feeling for the guy.

Shel Belinkoff wrote:


Last year about this time a friend and I took a drive into the country.  We
discovered a small farm that, during holidays, operates rides and
amusements for kids.  Gus, one of the owners, was telling us that if it
weren't for this "sideline" business, he'd have to sell the farm - a
situation that's not unusual for small family farms these days.  Anyway,
here's Gus with his old Farmall tractor - one of a few he uses for giving
the kids hay rides.  I liked Gus 

http://home.earthlink.net/~scbelinkoff/gustractor.html (250K +/-)

Pic made with Sony DSC-S85


Shel 




 




--
When you're worried or in doubt, 
	Run in circles, (scream and shout).

Re: More Texas Photo Issues

[P. J. Alling]

Unfortunately people don't always respect those rights...

Tom C wrote:


I appreciate this right immensely.

Tom C.


THE RIGHT TO NOT BE BOMBED TO SMITHEREENS .



Frank






--
When you're worried or in doubt, 
	Run in circles, (scream and shout).

Re: New toy from Apple...

[Mark Roberts]

Tim Sherburne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>Apple announced "Aperture" today, a professional-grade image editing app
>that places RAW files at the center of the workflow.
>
>
>
>Once again, however, it seems that Pentax must've really pissed off Apple at
>some point: No support for PEF files in sight. Seems like they're supporting
>everything else, though.

It may be that PEF files are supported but they've just missed putting
them on the list. That's what happened with one of Adobe's Camera RAW
updates (after the ist-DS, I believe).
 
 
-- 
Mark Roberts
Photography and writing
www.robertstech.com

Re: OT - Ragdoll

[Scott Loveless]

Try it again.  oval office

On 10/19/05, P. J. Alling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> There seem to be three responses to commands that haven't been
> programmed in, that's all oval office gets you.
>
>

--
Scott Loveless
http://www.twosixteen.com

--
"You have to hold the button down" -Arnold Newman

Re: OT - Ragdoll

[P. J. Alling]

There seem to be three responses to commands that haven't been 
programmed in, that's all oval office gets you.


Scott Loveless wrote:


"oval office" is even better.

On 10/19/05, Juan Buhler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
 


"find osama"

:)

On 10/19/05, Scott Loveless <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
   


laura

On 10/18/05, Shel Belinkoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
 


call margaret 

   


--
Scott Loveless
http://www.twosixteen.com

--
"You have to hold the button down" -Arnold Newman


 


--
Juan Buhler
http://www.jbuhler.com
photoblog at http://photoblog.jbuhler.com


   




--
Scott Loveless
http://www.twosixteen.com

--
"You have to hold the button down" -Arnold Newman


 




--
When you're worried or in doubt, 
	Run in circles, (scream and shout).

RE: I'm back & 5D news

[Tom C]

Yeah, I want to hear a report on the 5D.  My finger's already sitting on the 
button that says 'PLACE YOUR ORDER'.


Thanks.

Tom C.




I guess the main news of interest to you guys would be that Nate got
the Canon 5D. He has been busy testing it and figuring out how best to
process the photos. Let me know if you have any questions about it.





Amita

Re: PS Camera Raw - camera profile - *istD

[Rob Studdert]

On 19 Oct 2005 at 21:18, Paul Stenquist wrote:

> I realize that layers enable a better way to work. I've been watching a 
> professional retoucher who was working in my office, and she uses a new 
> layer for almost every step. I plan on utilizing them more often. I 
> have to take the time to experiment a bit.

I use layers but not near as extensively as I expect should. I keep hitting 
walls where I can't proceed onto the next step without flattening the image, I 
run into this problem often when applying my more complex actions. I haven't 
yet bothered to investigate why it is. Does anyone have a pointer to a good 
reference/tutorial publication for learning about the nuances of utilizing 
layers in PS?

Cheers,


Rob Studdert
HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA
Tel +61-2-9554-4110
UTC(GMT)  +10 Hours
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://members.ozemail.com.au/~distudio/publications/
Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998

Re: More Texas Photo Issues

[P. J. Alling]

The current French republic counts it's existence from 1958.  The 
country of France has a long and glorious history, but not as a 
republic.  The same can be said about Iceland.


DagT wrote:


Den 19. okt. 2005 kl. 18.23 skrev Bob Shell:



On Wednesday, October 19, 2005, at 11:26  AM, DagT wrote:



No, Iceland is.

DagT



"Settled by Norwegian and Celtic (Scottish and Irish) immigrants  
during the late 9th and 10th centuries A.D., Iceland boasts the  
world's oldest functioning legislative assembly, the Althing,  
established in 930. Independent for over 300 years, Iceland was  
subsequently ruled by Norway and Denmark. Fallout from the Askja  
volcano of 1875 devastated the Icelandic economy and caused  
widespread famine. Over the next quarter century, 20% of the  
island's population emigrated, mostly to Canada and the US. Limited  
home rule from Denmark was granted in 1874 and complete  independence 
attained in 1944. Literacy, longevity, income, and  social cohesion 
are first-rate by world standards."


Since San Marino was founded in 301 and Iceland's Althing in 930, I  
don't see how Iceland can claim to be an older republic.  Plus San  
Marino has never been defeated in battle or occupied, much less  
ruled by another country.  Even Mussolini (regarded as a hero in  San 
Marino) left them alone.



As I said, I was just teasing because I think such competitions are  
stupid.


On the other hand the total time as independent is still better than  
the US, and nobody used the word "continuous" in relation to the word  
"independent"


.-)

DagT





--
When you're worried or in doubt, 
	Run in circles, (scream and shout).

Re: PS Camera Raw - camera profile - *istD

[Paul Stenquist]

I realize that layers enable a better way to work. I've been watching a 
professional retoucher who was working in my office, and she uses a new 
layer for almost every step. I plan on utilizing them more often. I 
have to take the time to experiment a bit.

Paul
On Oct 19, 2005, at 9:07 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:


Interesting that you don't use adjustment layers.

I make edits in small steps through a lot of layers and use masking 
extensively to localize the edits. They constitute a huge gain for my 
editing workflow ... I can make changes, shift them out, evaluate 
befores and afters, etc, very flexibly and easily. It's not just a 
matter of being able to step backwards: it allows me to entirely 
change a rendering by having alternative adjustment layer groups, all 
working on the same background data. If I do screw up the background 
image data one way or the other, I can replicate all my edits 
immediately by generating another base image from the RAW file and 
just applying the edit layers to it.


Godfrey


On Oct 19, 2005, at 5:49 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote:

My scratch disk is on an external firewire drive. A Maxtor 300 gig, 
7200 rpm. I don't use a lot of adjustment layers. I tend to work on 
the background layer unless I'm uncertain about a given procedure. I 
keep 70 layers of history, so there's usually no problem stepping 
back if I must. I do some BW conversion, but only about 10% or so.

Re: More Texas Photo Issues

[P. J. Alling]

San Marino has be occupied twice in it's history the last time around 
1730 if I remember correctly.  The pope interceded to end the 
occupation, (and damn it I don't remember who did the occupying).


Bob Shell wrote:



On Wednesday, October 19, 2005, at 11:26  AM, DagT wrote:


No, Iceland is.

DagT





"Settled by Norwegian and Celtic (Scottish and Irish) immigrants 
during the late 9th and 10th centuries A.D., Iceland boasts the 
world's oldest functioning legislative assembly, the Althing, 
established in 930. Independent for over 300 years, Iceland was 
subsequently ruled by Norway and Denmark. Fallout from the Askja 
volcano of 1875 devastated the Icelandic economy and caused widespread 
famine. Over the next quarter century, 20% of the island's population 
emigrated, mostly to Canada and the US. Limited home rule from Denmark 
was granted in 1874 and complete independence attained in 1944. 
Literacy, longevity, income, and social cohesion are first-rate by 
world standards."


Since San Marino was founded in 301 and Iceland's Althing in 930, I 
don't see how Iceland can claim to be an older republic.  Plus San 
Marino has never been defeated in battle or occupied, much less ruled 
by another country.  Even Mussolini (regarded as a hero in San Marino) 
left them alone.


Bob





--
When you're worried or in doubt, 
	Run in circles, (scream and shout).

Re: More Texas Photo Issues

[P. J. Alling]

The United States is the oldest Constitutional Republic in existence. 


E.R.N. Reed wrote:


Bob Blakely wrote:


Thank you. I stand corrected. They are the oldest republic.

The U.S. in the oldest fully independent republic. 



Good grief, if you wanted a safe correction you could've just said 
"oldest big republic" ... :-P






--
When you're worried or in doubt, 
	Run in circles, (scream and shout).

Re: I'm back & 5D news

[Tom Reese]

Amita Guha wrote:


> > Tell Nate he has wasted his cash, everyone knows the future is APS-C !!
>
> Then it's a good thing I'm sticking with Pentax. :) Is that the kind
> of thing you guys were discussing while I was gone? :)

Nothing like that. We spent the time and a hell of a lot of bandwidth
arguing about the perceived lack of support for the old lenses.

Oh yeah, Shel is now dancing with the devil.

Tom Reese

PESO PAW - Gus and His Tractor

[Shel Belinkoff]

Last year about this time a friend and I took a drive into the country.  We
discovered a small farm that, during holidays, operates rides and
amusements for kids.  Gus, one of the owners, was telling us that if it
weren't for this "sideline" business, he'd have to sell the farm - a
situation that's not unusual for small family farms these days.  Anyway,
here's Gus with his old Farmall tractor - one of a few he uses for giving
the kids hay rides.  I liked Gus 


http://home.earthlink.net/~scbelinkoff/gustractor.html (250K +/-)


Pic made with Sony DSC-S85

 Shel 

RE: Matrix metering with Tamron P/KA ?

[Andre Langevin]

They're buried in a box somewhere but a general list is:
3 28-70/3.5-4.5, good optics, poor build.
3 135/2.8s, all different versions, average optics, average build,
long minimum focus.
1 28/2.8 excellent build, average optics.
1 200/3.5, large, heavy, good to good+ optics, excellent build,
good tripod mount. (Like brand new in box with case, *interested*?)
These are from my poor memory so take with a grain or two of salt. ;-)


So none of their SP lenses.  I've only heard good things about the SP line.

I just got the SP 70-210 3.5/4 that goes to 1:2 at 210mm.  I want to 
compare it to the Pentax K 85-210mm 3.5 for infinity to 1:10 (the 
range of the Pentax).


Andre

Re: PS Camera Raw - camera profile - *istD

[Rob Studdert]

On 19 Oct 2005 at 20:44, Paul Stenquist wrote:

> I agree that when using the eyedropper, it's easy to set the WB. I do 
> that from time to time. However, I frequently find that I prefer 
> something a bit warmer than what the white card method yields. It my 
> not be true to life, but I like a slightly warm look. Of course sunset 
> and sunrise are warmer than what a white card method would yield, so I 
> guess in some cases a warm look is true to life.

I have found though testing that the DL WB setting is very accurate so if I 
wish to preserve the sunset/sunrise colours I pre-set the WB to DL and I don't 
alter the colours at all, results are always very good.



Rob Studdert
HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA
Tel +61-2-9554-4110
UTC(GMT)  +10 Hours
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://members.ozemail.com.au/~distudio/publications/
Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998

Re: More Texas Photo Issues

[P. J. Alling]

Iceland was considered to be part of Denmark until 1918.

DagT wrote:


No, Iceland is.

DagT


Den 19. okt. 2005 kl. 16.48 skrev Bob Blakely:


Thank you. I stand corrected. They are the oldest republic.

The U.S. in the oldest fully independent republic.

Regards,
Bob...
-- 
--

By all means, marry. If you get a good wife, you'll become happy;
if you get a bad one, you'll become a philosopher.
- Socrates


From: "Bob Shell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>




On Wednesday, October 19, 2005, at 09:44  AM, Bob Blakely wrote:



The war resulted in the oldest republic currently in existence.





Ask the people of the Republic of San Marino how they feel about  
that statement.  Their Republic was founded on September 3, 301 .   
Their current constitution was ratified on October 8, 1600 .


You can see info here:

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/sm.html

There is a very nice statue of Abraham Lincoln there in their seat  
of government building.


I've been to San Marino many times.

Bob













--
When you're worried or in doubt, 
	Run in circles, (scream and shout).

Re: PS Camera Raw - camera profile - *istD

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

Interesting that you don't use adjustment layers.

I make edits in small steps through a lot of layers and use masking  
extensively to localize the edits. They constitute a huge gain for my  
editing workflow ... I can make changes, shift them out, evaluate  
befores and afters, etc, very flexibly and easily. It's not just a  
matter of being able to step backwards: it allows me to entirely  
change a rendering by having alternative adjustment layer groups, all  
working on the same background data. If I do screw up the background  
image data one way or the other, I can replicate all my edits  
immediately by generating another base image from the RAW file and  
just applying the edit layers to it.


Godfrey


On Oct 19, 2005, at 5:49 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote:

My scratch disk is on an external firewire drive. A Maxtor 300 gig,  
7200 rpm. I don't use a lot of adjustment layers. I tend to work on  
the background layer unless I'm uncertain about a given procedure.  
I keep 70 layers of history, so there's usually no problem stepping  
back if I must. I do some BW conversion, but only about 10% or so.

Re: new ebay scam

[Tom C]

I had a similar thing happen on an item.  It was bid up in the last 30 
seconds and I lost the auction.   The seller then contacted me and said they 
had more than one to sell and they would honor my bid.


Hmm...

BTW, I never ever bid more than twice and usually only once, right at the 
end.


Tom C.


From: "Tom Reese" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
To: 
Subject: Re: new ebay scam
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 21:14:14 -0400

I suspect that the seller had someone put a shill bid in to drive the price
up. I had something similar happen to me a few months ago. Someone outbid 
me

on a camera. The seller contacted me and told me that the winner couldn't
come up with the money. I was already uneasy and the whole thing started to
sound extremely suspicious. I told him I was no longer interested.

Tom Reese

Vic Mortelmans wrote:

> I had something similar on a bid I made once. After a while, I got a
> message that a higher bid came in on the item, but when the item ended,
> I didn't get the expected "you've lost the bid", but actually I won the
> bid, with the explaination that the winner withdrew his bid. And to
> assure you: I payed AND received the item in good order!

Re: New toy from Apple...

[keith_w]

David Mann wrote:

On Oct 20, 2005, at 10:03 AM, Tim Sherburne wrote:

Once again, however, it seems that Pentax must've really pissed off  
Apple at
some point: No support for PEF files in sight. Seems like they're  
supporting

everything else, though.




Aperture is a tool for _professional_ photographers ;)




It'll be interesting to see how the pundits stack Aperture up against
Photoshop CS.



They're different tools.  Aperture is built specifically as a  workflow 
tool for professional photographers.  Think of it as  Aperture being to 
iPhoto what Final Cut Pro is to iMovie.  I don't  think Adobe needs to 
panic just yet.


No, not at $500 per...

keith


Cheers,

- Dave (new PowerMacs and Powerbooks, drool)

Re: new ebay scam

[Tom Reese]

I suspect that the seller had someone put a shill bid in to drive the price
up. I had something similar happen to me a few months ago. Someone outbid me
on a camera. The seller contacted me and told me that the winner couldn't
come up with the money. I was already uneasy and the whole thing started to
sound extremely suspicious. I told him I was no longer interested.

Tom Reese

Vic Mortelmans wrote:

> I had something similar on a bid I made once. After a while, I got a
> message that a higher bid came in on the item, but when the item ended,
> I didn't get the expected "you've lost the bid", but actually I won the
> bid, with the explaination that the winner withdrew his bid. And to
> assure you: I payed AND received the item in good order!

Re: More help

[P. J. Alling]

DamnifIknow...

Don Williams wrote:


Hi all,

Finally after getting enough info about the camera to persuade me to 
get one and learning about its power needs I have a final question -- 
for the moment at least.


Will the Sigma 24-70 F3.5-5.6 UC AF-MF lens work with the *ist D? Will 
it auto focus?


Don




--
When you're worried or in doubt, 
	Run in circles, (scream and shout).

Re: PS Camera Raw - camera profile - *istD

[Paul Stenquist]

My scratch disk is on an external firewire drive. A Maxtor 300 gig, 
7200 rpm. I don't use a lot of adjustment layers. I tend to work on the 
background layer unless I'm uncertain about a given procedure. I keep 
70 layers of history, so there's usually no problem stepping back if I 
must. I do some BW conversion, but only about 10% or so.


On Oct 19, 2005, at 8:26 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:



On Oct 19, 2005, at 5:01 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote:
I've read that the stair-step method can be destructive. It 
introduces more opportunity for error.


In some cases it can be, but not all. Just like in some cases doing 
upsampling in the RAW converter is the right solution.. :-)


My system has no problems with the 144 megabyte files (although it's 
only a G4, dual 1.25), so that hasn't really entered into my 
thinking. I do use a fast and large scratch disk. That seems to be 
the most important factor when it comes to working with large files. 
And, unless I'm doing a lot of retouching, my work is almost finished 
by the time I convert.


A dual-processor G4 is significantly faster than what I'm using at 
present ... much faster bus and IO. Fast and large scratch disks are 
definitely an issue as well ... are they external or internal? 
External ones are gated by the speed of FireWire, internal can be 
faster too. I have a reasonably fast, FireWire 250G external drive for 
scratch space.


I think I do more editing in Photoshop post-raw-conversion than you do 
as I do about 80% B&W work too. Adjustment Layers add a lot of 
overhead and I use them extensively.


Godfrey

Re: PS Camera Raw - camera profile - *istD

[Paul Stenquist]

I agree that when using the eyedropper, it's easy to set the WB. I do 
that from time to time. However, I frequently find that I prefer 
something a bit warmer than what the white card method yields. It my 
not be true to life, but I like a slightly warm look. Of course sunset 
and sunrise are warmer than what a white card method would yield, so I 
guess in some cases a warm look is true to life.

On Oct 19, 2005, at 8:24 PM, Rob Studdert wrote:


On 19 Oct 2005 at 20:14, Paul Stenquist wrote:

However, changing the exposure and shadow frequently alters the color 
a

bit as well. Like Bill, I tend to work back and forth a bit, but I try
to get close on the exposure, brightness, and shadow first.


If I'm using a white/gray reference card and using the eye-dropper to 
set the
WB then altering the exposure/brightness/shadow doesn't seem to make a 
scrap of

difference and neither it should unless clipping is involved.


Rob Studdert
HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA
Tel +61-2-9554-4110
UTC(GMT)  +10 Hours
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://members.ozemail.com.au/~distudio/publications/
Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998

Re: Pornography Issues in Photo Labs. Was: Texas Photo Issues

[John Forbes]

Keep rejecting them, Bill.  It might make a few more people realise what a  
crazy world we are now living in.


John

On Wed, 19 Oct 2005 23:03:22 +0100, William Robb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
wrote:




- Original Message - From: "Jens Bladt"
Subject: RE: Pornography Issues in Photo Labs. Was: Texas Photo Issues





As fa as I'm concerned people can photograph pretty mucch what ever they
want. I guess labs can't legally make Kiddy Porn prints, though.


The problem isn't in not producing it, the problem is in identifying it  
so as not to produce it.
I had to reject several images today, depicting a young lady, perhaps 6  
to 8 years of age because she was posed topless.
The problem with doing this sort of thing is that I, as the lab  
operator, am forced to make moral judgements that I do not think I  
should be forced to make, and then explain to the customer why I didn't  
print their pictures.
I am sure the mid 50's grandmother who picks up this film will be really  
happy to know that she may be producing child pornography, but that is  
the position the law puts me photo labs and customers in.
We have to take an embarassingly puritanical position to avoid  
prosecution for distributing kiddy porn, but the other side of the coin  
is that in protecting ourselves against a criminal trial, we are opening  
the door to a civil trial in the event the customer decides his or her  
reputation has been besmirched by our reason for refusal to print  
certain pictures.


William Robb










--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/

Re: PS Camera Raw - camera profile - *istD

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

On Oct 19, 2005, at 5:01 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote:
I've read that the stair-step method can be destructive. It  
introduces more opportunity for error.


In some cases it can be, but not all. Just like in some cases doing  
upsampling in the RAW converter is the right solution.. :-)


My system has no problems with the 144 megabyte files (although  
it's only a G4, dual 1.25), so that hasn't really entered into my  
thinking. I do use a fast and large scratch disk. That seems to be  
the most important factor when it comes to working with large  
files. And, unless I'm doing a lot of retouching, my work is almost  
finished by the time I convert.


A dual-processor G4 is significantly faster than what I'm using at  
present ... much faster bus and IO. Fast and large scratch disks are  
definitely an issue as well ... are they external or internal?  
External ones are gated by the speed of FireWire, internal can be  
faster too. I have a reasonably fast, FireWire 250G external drive  
for scratch space.


I think I do more editing in Photoshop post-raw-conversion than you  
do as I do about 80% B&W work too. Adjustment Layers add a lot of  
overhead and I use them extensively.


Godfrey

Re: PS Camera Raw - camera profile - *istD

[William Robb]

- Original Message - 
From: "Paul Stenquist"

Subject: Re: PS Camera Raw - camera profile - *istD


However, changing the exposure and shadow frequently alters the color a 
bit as well. Like Bill, I tend to work back and forth a bit, but I try to 
get close on the exposure, brightness, and shadow first.


I find if this is happening, I generally want to revisit my white balance 
after fiddling around with the RGB slope.


William Robb

Re: PS Camera Raw - camera profile - *istD

[Rob Studdert]

On 19 Oct 2005 at 20:14, Paul Stenquist wrote:

> However, changing the exposure and shadow frequently alters the color a 
> bit as well. Like Bill, I tend to work back and forth a bit, but I try 
> to get close on the exposure, brightness, and shadow first.

If I'm using a white/gray reference card and using the eye-dropper to set the 
WB then altering the exposure/brightness/shadow doesn't seem to make a scrap of 
difference and neither it should unless clipping is involved.


Rob Studdert
HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA
Tel +61-2-9554-4110
UTC(GMT)  +10 Hours
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://members.ozemail.com.au/~distudio/publications/
Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998

Re: New toy from Apple...

[David Mann]

On Oct 20, 2005, at 11:20 AM, Cotty wrote:


Photoshop just gets on and does the business.


My impression of Photoshop is that it's trying to be all things to  
all people.  It's highly versatile but it's also big and complicated.


For editing and retouching Photoshop is still king of the castle.   
From a workflow and organising perspective, Aperture is filling a  
gaping hole in the market (IMO).



From what I can see of
Apple's Aperture, it will sell to people who don't make a living from
selling pictures.


My initial thought was that it would have very little usefulness  
outside of the professional world, but now I'm not so sure.  You may  
be right here, but it is a bit expensive.


Apple could make a real killing if they release an "Aperture  
Express" (cf Final Cut Express, Logic Express) for people who want  
something better than iPhoto but not as expensive as Aperture.


Cheers,

- Dave

Re: PS Camera Raw - camera profile - *istD

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

CS2 ships with the Camera Raw plugin v3.0. The Pentax *ist D camera  
profile might not have been updated since ACR 2.4, however. They  
don't necessarily update all camera profiles with every revision.


Between ACR 2.4 and ACR 3.2 is a world of difference!

Godfrey


On Oct 19, 2005, at 5:00 PM, Kenneth Waller wrote:


Thanks Godfrey,

I've got Fraser's book & you guys were spot on in reccommending it.

My just purchased CS2 has ACR 2.4.
Is there a significant difference, with ACR 3.2 as far as the *istD  
is concerned.


Kenneth Waller

- Original Message - From: "Godfrey DiGiorgi"  
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


Subject: Re: PS Camera Raw - camera profile - *istD




On Oct 19, 2005, at 3:29 PM, Kenneth Waller wrote:


I finally upgraded one of my PCs to where I can run PS CS2. I'll   
now be shooting RAW & was wondering if any of the PS guru's here   
have any comments on the *istD camera profile in ACR 3.0 or 2.4.

Do you use the default settings in PS or what?



I haven't touched the camera calibration, but I set my defaults  
for Camera Raw to open up without the Auto feature turned on. If  
you find  you are very frequently making the same correction, it's  
sensible to  adapt the defaults to do that for you as you can  
always change it  anyway.


BTW, if you haven't already read Bruce Fraser's "Real World  
Camera  Raw with Photoshop CS2", do so. It is the best book on RAW  
processing available, and treats the subject of Camera Raw,  
Photoshop CS2 and  Bridge integration better than anything I've  
read from Adobe.


Also, be sure you download and update to Camera Raw + DNG  
Converter  v3.2. It's available from the Adobe website. Lots of  
detail  improvements over v3 that shipped with CS2.


Godfrey

Re: PS Camera Raw - camera profile - *istD

[William Robb]

- Original Message - 
From: "Rob Studdert"

Subject: Re: PS Camera Raw - camera profile - *istD





I'm a bit of a WB "eyedropper" fan, particularly if there is a known 
white/gray

object in the frame, it generally gets the WB pretty close.


I should probably try that again, but old habits die hard.
I've been doing it this way for 30 years, and have pretty much just ramped 
my colour printing theory over to the computer as much as possible.
It was only about a year or so ago I found out that the white, gray and 
black points could be set via eyedropper.
I tried it, and decided I could set the levels faster than I could find the 
density points.


William Robb 

Re: PS Camera Raw - camera profile - *istD

[William Robb]

- Original Message - 
From: "Paul Stenquist"

Subject: Re: PS Camera Raw - camera profile - *istD


I'm with you on color space. I save my tiffs as prophoto rgb as well. 
However, I convert to generic rgb for printing. My Epson 2400 really likes 
that profile when printing with Colorsynch.


If you are ever printing to photo paper, sRGB is as close a match as you can 
get to most papers, according to Noritsu.


William Robb 

Re: PS Camera Raw - camera profile - *istD

[Paul Stenquist]

However, changing the exposure and shadow frequently alters the color a 
bit as well. Like Bill, I tend to work back and forth a bit, but I try 
to get close on the exposure, brightness, and shadow first.

Paul
On Oct 19, 2005, at 7:57 PM, Rob Studdert wrote:


On 19 Oct 2005 at 17:29, William Robb wrote:

Paul and I seem to have pretty much the same workflow procedure, and 
his

description has the advantage of coherence.
The general rules of thumb we use in the photo lab industry seems to 
apply. This
is get the density right before attempting to adjust the colour. This 
will

always get you close to where you want to be.
 If you must, tweak the density again, and perhaps a final tweak to 
the

colour.


If the exposure level and shadow point are set prior to setting the 
colour then
clipping often occurs particularly when large colour offsets are 
called for. I
always try to set the colour as close as possible to where I want it 
initially

so that I don't have to set exposure/shadow levels twice.


Rob Studdert
HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA
Tel +61-2-9554-4110
UTC(GMT)  +10 Hours
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://members.ozemail.com.au/~distudio/publications/
Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998

Re: I'm back & 5D news

[Amita Guha]

> Tell Nate he has wasted his cash, everyone knows the future is APS-C !!

Then it's a good thing I'm sticking with Pentax. :) Is that the kind
of thing you guys were discussing while I was gone? :)

Amita

Re: Forget Texas law - Let's talk about Halloween photos ;)

[Tom C]

OUCH! ;-)

Tom C.





From: "William Robb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
To: 
Subject: Re: Forget Texas law - Let's talk about Halloween photos ;)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 18:05:04 -0600


- Original Message - From: "Tom C" Subject: Re: Forget Texas law - 
Let's talk about Halloween photos ;)




I'm thinking, I'm thinking...


12) Don't make Tom think. It hurts him.
HAR!

Re: PS Camera Raw - camera profile - *istD

[Paul Stenquist]

I'm with you on color space. I save my tiffs as prophoto rgb as well. 
However, I convert to generic rgb for printing. My Epson 2400 really 
likes that profile when printing with Colorsynch.

Paul
On Oct 19, 2005, at 7:29 PM, William Robb wrote:



- Original Message - From: "Kenneth Waller"
Subject: PS Camera Raw - camera profile - *istD


I finally upgraded one of my PCs to where I can run PS CS2. I'll now 
be shooting RAW & was wondering if any of the PS guru's here have any 
comments on the *istD camera profile in ACR 3.0 or 2.4.

Do you use the default settings in PS or what?


Paul and I seem to have pretty much the same workflow procedure, and 
his description has the advantage of coherence.
The general rules of thumb we use in the photo lab industry seems to 
apply.

This is get the density right before attempting to adjust the colour.
This will always get you close to where you want to be.
If you must, tweak the density again, and perhaps a final tweak to the 
colour.

Don't forget about colour profiles.
I have been using ProPhoto RGB, as it seems to have the widest gamut.
When I do the conversion, I set my PPI to 320. This is only a tag, and 
doesn't actually affect the file size, but my printer writes at 320 
PPI, so by tagging the file as such, my size adjustments for printing 
becomes a bit easier to manage...
I am printing to photographic paper, and I like to give the printer 
the exact number of pixels it needs for the print.

It's handy to save profiles as you create them, BTW.

William Robb

Re: PS Camera Raw - camera profile - *istD

[Rob Studdert]

On 19 Oct 2005 at 18:03, William Robb wrote:

> I have noticed that, but until the density is close, colour is more 
> difficult to judge.
> I adjust by a combination of eyeballing the picture and watching the 
> histogram so that I can back off an adjustment before it clips if I need to. 
> If
> I have to back and forth from colour to density, thats what I have to do, but 
> I
> find it easier if I can get the density close first.

I'm a bit of a WB "eyedropper" fan, particularly if there is a known white/gray 
object in the frame, it generally gets the WB pretty close.


Rob Studdert
HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA
Tel +61-2-9554-4110
UTC(GMT)  +10 Hours
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://members.ozemail.com.au/~distudio/publications/
Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998

Re: Forget Texas law - Let's talk about Halloween photos ;)

[William Robb]

- Original Message - 
From: "Tom C" 
Subject: Re: Forget Texas law - Let's talk about Halloween photos ;)




I'm thinking, I'm thinking...


12) Don't make Tom think. It hurts him.
HAR!

Re: PS Camera Raw - camera profile - *istD

[William Robb]

- Original Message - 
From: "Rob Studdert"

Subject: Re: PS Camera Raw - camera profile - *istD





If the exposure level and shadow point are set prior to setting the colour 
then
clipping often occurs particularly when large colour offsets are called 
for. I
always try to set the colour as close as possible to where I want it 
initially

so that I don't have to set exposure/shadow levels twice.


I have noticed that, but until the density is close, colour is more 
difficult to judge.
I adjust by a combination of eyeballing the picture and watching the 
histogram so that I can back off an adjustment before it clips if I need to.
If I have to back and forth from colour to density, thats what I have to do, 
but I find it easier if I can get the density close first.


William Robb 

Re: Forget Texas law - Let's talk about Halloween photos ;)

[Tom C]

I'm thinking, I'm thinking...

Tom C.





From: "William Robb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
To: 
Subject: Re: Forget Texas law - Let's talk about Halloween photos ;)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 17:58:25 -0600


- Original Message - From: "Tom C" Subject: RE: Forget Texas law - 
Let's talk about Halloween photos ;)



<1 through 11 snipped)

One more and you have a twelve step program.
WW

Re: PS Camera Raw - camera profile - *istD

[Paul Stenquist]

I've read that the stair-step method can be destructive. It introduces 
more opportunity for error. My system has no problems with the 144 
megabyte files (although it's only a G4, dual 1.25), so that hasn't 
really entered into my thinking. I do use a fast and large scratch 
disk. That seems to be the most important factor when it comes to 
working with large files. And, unless I'm doing a lot of retouching, my 
work is almost finished by the time I convert.

Paul
On Oct 19, 2005, at 7:26 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:



On Oct 19, 2005, at 4:10 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote:

By the way, I almost always convert to the maximum size that the 
converter will produce -- a 144 megabyte 16-bit file. Adobe has said 
that upsizing (interpolating) in the RAW converter is superior to 
doing it after the fact in PhotoShop. ...


That's a bit controversial. I've done upsampling both in the RAW 
converter and in Photoshop itself, with a series of different 
algorithms. I feel there are times when it works better in Camera Raw 
and other times when it works better using a stair-step approach in 
Photoshop. It's certainly faster/more responsive to to fundamental 
edits in Photoshop on the native resolution than on a 144Mbyte file 
... just from the basis of shoving so much data around.


Godfrey

Re: PS Camera Raw - camera profile - *istD

[Kenneth Waller]

Thanks Godfrey,

I've got Fraser's book & you guys were spot on in reccommending it.

My just purchased CS2 has ACR 2.4.
Is there a significant difference, with ACR 3.2 as far as the *istD is 
concerned.


Kenneth Waller

- Original Message - 
From: "Godfrey DiGiorgi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


Subject: Re: PS Camera Raw - camera profile - *istD



On Oct 19, 2005, at 3:29 PM, Kenneth Waller wrote:

I finally upgraded one of my PCs to where I can run PS CS2. I'll  now be 
shooting RAW & was wondering if any of the PS guru's here  have any 
comments on the *istD camera profile in ACR 3.0 or 2.4.

Do you use the default settings in PS or what?


I haven't touched the camera calibration, but I set my defaults for 
Camera Raw to open up without the Auto feature turned on. If you find  you 
are very frequently making the same correction, it's sensible to  adapt 
the defaults to do that for you as you can always change it  anyway.


BTW, if you haven't already read Bruce Fraser's "Real World Camera  Raw 
with Photoshop CS2", do so. It is the best book on RAW processing 
available, and treats the subject of Camera Raw, Photoshop CS2 and  Bridge 
integration better than anything I've read from Adobe.


Also, be sure you download and update to Camera Raw + DNG Converter  v3.2. 
It's available from the Adobe website. Lots of detail  improvements over 
v3 that shipped with CS2.


Godfrey

Re: Forget Texas law - Let's talk about Halloween photos ;)

[William Robb]

- Original Message - 
From: "Tom C" 
Subject: RE: Forget Texas law - Let's talk about Halloween photos ;)



<1 through 11 snipped)

One more and you have a twelve step program.
WW

Re: PS Camera Raw - camera profile - *istD

[Rob Studdert]

On 19 Oct 2005 at 17:29, William Robb wrote:

> Paul and I seem to have pretty much the same workflow procedure, and his 
> description has the advantage of coherence.
> The general rules of thumb we use in the photo lab industry seems to apply. 
> This
> is get the density right before attempting to adjust the colour. This will
> always get you close to where you want to be.
>  If you must, tweak the density again, and perhaps a final tweak to the 
> colour.

If the exposure level and shadow point are set prior to setting the colour then 
clipping often occurs particularly when large colour offsets are called for. I 
always try to set the colour as close as possible to where I want it initially 
so that I don't have to set exposure/shadow levels twice.


Rob Studdert
HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA
Tel +61-2-9554-4110
UTC(GMT)  +10 Hours
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://members.ozemail.com.au/~distudio/publications/
Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998

RE: Forget Texas law - Let's talk about Halloween photos ;)

[Tom C]

10.1 I seem to recall holding off working on it and honoring a request, by 
you specifically, because you needed time to get your film processed.


Tom C.





From: "Tom C" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
Subject: RE: Forget Texas law - Let's talk about Halloween photos ;)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 17:47:41 -0600

FWIW Markus,

1. I offered to host a Syncronicity gallery for the fun of it (mainly for 
my fun, but also for the viewing  pleasure of others).


2. Your impatience and sarcasm is going to quickly make it *un-fun*.

3. When I offered to do it, it was out of the goodness of my heart.

4. I had a timeline in my head, which I have not met.

5. It is not my top priority in life.

6. I hate being pressured.

7. I could just throw them out on photo.net and have it done in 15 minutes, 
but that was not my intent.


8. You have taught me a small lesson regarding volunteering my time.

9. If you wish to withdraw your submission, feel free.

10.  Kindly, shutup about it.

Tom C.





From: "Markus Maurer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
To: 
Subject: RE: Forget Texas law - Let's talk about Halloween photos ;)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 19:46:27 +0200

Hi Glen
I hope it will not be **too similar** because I have never seen the 
results

of the synchronicity project.
Beware that showing 9 pictures and some comments to the PDML seems to be 
an

incredible hard job taking weeks,
are you sure that you are able to handle that?

On the other side, no one will say a word If your not, you can't do wrong
here

Sorry Glen, I just h a d to jump in :-(

I still like your idea but I'm cured for the moment.
greetings
Markus



>>Is anyone interested in doing a Halloween project? This would be
>>similar to
>>the recent synchronicity project, in the sense that everyone would be
>>shooting during the same time period. For those people living in
>>countries
>>that do not observe a Halloween tradition, you can still submit a photo
>>that illustrates what happened in your area on October 31st. That might
>>make a good counterbalance to all the Halloween photos.
>

Re: New toy from Apple...

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

I noticed that too. Of course, it means that you need both Photoshop  
CS2 AND Aperture.


I see little reason as yet to even consider another editing/workflow  
tool. As you say, it will be interesting to see what develops.


Godfrey


On Oct 19, 2005, at 4:04 PM, Marco Alpert wrote:

I do note that it accepts DNG, so we're not completely out in the  
cold. A very brief look at the web page indicates that it doesn't  
have nearly the variety or depth or tools that Photoshop has, but  
does have some interesting workflow ideas. It is, of course, a 1.0  
release. Look at where Final Cut Pro started and where it is these  
days. This should be interesting to watch.


   - Marco

On Oct 19, 2005, at 2:03 PM, Tim Sherburne wrote:




Apple announced "Aperture" today, a professional-grade image  
editing app

that places RAW files at the center of the workflow.



Once again, however, it seems that Pentax must've really pissed  
off Apple at
some point: No support for PEF files in sight. Seems like they're  
supporting

everything else, though.

It'll be interesting to see how the pundits stack Aperture up against
Photoshop CS.

Tim

RE: Forget Texas law - Let's talk about Halloween photos ;)

[Tom C]

FWIW Markus,

1. I offered to host a Syncronicity gallery for the fun of it (mainly for my 
fun, but also for the viewing  pleasure of others).


2. Your impatience and sarcasm is going to quickly make it *un-fun*.

3. When I offered to do it, it was out of the goodness of my heart.

4. I had a timeline in my head, which I have not met.

5. It is not my top priority in life.

6. I hate being pressured.

7. I could just throw them out on photo.net and have it done in 15 minutes, 
but that was not my intent.


8. You have taught me a small lesson regarding volunteering my time.

9. If you wish to withdraw your submission, feel free.

10.  Kindly, shutup about it.

Tom C.





From: "Markus Maurer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
To: 
Subject: RE: Forget Texas law - Let's talk about Halloween photos ;)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 19:46:27 +0200

Hi Glen
I hope it will not be **too similar** because I have never seen the results
of the synchronicity project.
Beware that showing 9 pictures and some comments to the PDML seems to be an
incredible hard job taking weeks,
are you sure that you are able to handle that?

On the other side, no one will say a word If your not, you can't do wrong
here

Sorry Glen, I just h a d to jump in :-(

I still like your idea but I'm cured for the moment.
greetings
Markus



>>Is anyone interested in doing a Halloween project? This would be
>>similar to
>>the recent synchronicity project, in the sense that everyone would be
>>shooting during the same time period. For those people living in
>>countries
>>that do not observe a Halloween tradition, you can still submit a photo
>>that illustrates what happened in your area on October 31st. That might
>>make a good counterbalance to all the Halloween photos.
>

Re: PS Camera Raw - camera profile - *istD

[William Robb]

- Original Message - 
From: "Kenneth Waller"

Subject: PS Camera Raw - camera profile - *istD


I finally upgraded one of my PCs to where I can run PS CS2. I'll now be 
shooting RAW & was wondering if any of the PS guru's here have any comments 
on the *istD camera profile in ACR 3.0 or 2.4.

Do you use the default settings in PS or what?


Paul and I seem to have pretty much the same workflow procedure, and his 
description has the advantage of coherence.

The general rules of thumb we use in the photo lab industry seems to apply.
This is get the density right before attempting to adjust the colour.
This will always get you close to where you want to be.
If you must, tweak the density again, and perhaps a final tweak to the 
colour.

Don't forget about colour profiles.
I have been using ProPhoto RGB, as it seems to have the widest gamut.
When I do the conversion, I set my PPI to 320. This is only a tag, and 
doesn't actually affect the file size, but my printer writes at 320 PPI, so 
by tagging the file as such, my size adjustments for printing becomes a bit 
easier to manage...
I am printing to photographic paper, and I like to give the printer the 
exact number of pixels it needs for the print.

It's handy to save profiles as you create them, BTW.

William Robb 

Re: PS Camera Raw - camera profile - *istD

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

On Oct 19, 2005, at 4:10 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote:

By the way, I almost always convert to the maximum size that the  
converter will produce -- a 144 megabyte 16-bit file. Adobe has  
said that upsizing (interpolating) in the RAW converter is superior  
to doing it after the fact in PhotoShop. ...


That's a bit controversial. I've done upsampling both in the RAW  
converter and in Photoshop itself, with a series of different  
algorithms. I feel there are times when it works better in Camera Raw  
and other times when it works better using a stair-step approach in  
Photoshop. It's certainly faster/more responsive to to fundamental  
edits in Photoshop on the native resolution than on a 144Mbyte  
file ... just from the basis of shoving so much data around.


Godfrey