comparing lightroom and On1 HDR

[Larry Colen]

I took some bracketed photos of a “new year’s tree”, I figured the dynamic 
range from glowing lights to ornaments in an otherwise dim room would give HDR 
a reasonable work out.

Here are the hdrs processed in Lightroom 6
https://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/albums/72157712407455041

Here they are processed in On1
https://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/albums/72157712407573666

I think that On1 has a slight edge.

Unfortunately I don’t have access to any of my astro landscape raw source files 
for comparison.
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Re: Free at last!

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

> On Dec 28, 2019, at 5:01 PM, Larry Colen  wrote:
> 
> I started a thread on this topic on their community support board:
> 
> https://on1help.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/360055861911-Switching-from-lightroom
> 
> I’ve run into another issue with Photo RAW, setting the white balance of a 
> group of photos based on a greycard.  

There are simply so many things that are far far easier to get done quickly and 
efficiently with Lightroom than with Photo RAW , I gave up on On1 Photo RAW 
 as a suitable replacement. I worked at it pretty seriously for three 
weeks, after dabbling about with it for most of the past year, and came away 
unimpressed. 

No software should be that difficult to figure out and use efficiently. :)

G
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Re: Free at last!

[Larry Colen]

I started a thread on this topic on their community support board:

https://on1help.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/360055861911-Switching-from-lightroom

I’ve run into another issue with Photo RAW, setting the white balance of a 
group of photos based on a greycard.  

> On Dec 28, 2019, at 11:37 AM, Larry Colen  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On Dec 28, 2019, at 7:39 AM, Ralf R Radermacher  wrote:
>> 
>> Am 28.12.19 um 15:14 schrieb Godfrey DiGiorgi:
>> 
>>> I must say: Studying the other offerings on the market points out to me how 
>>> good a job Lightroom is. Adobe is the irritating part of it.
>> 
>> Fair enough and I'm aware that I'm losing some very handy features. But
>> the idea of all my work being taken hostage by a company whose business
>> model is a glorified protection racket just doesn't appeal to me any
>> longer.
> 
> If it weren’t for the ransomware feature, I’d stay with lightroom.  If I had 
> better income, I’d still be tempted.  I have no interest in going through the 
> bother of learning photoshop, and especially not paying for it.
> 
>> 
>> Besides, it takes me one step closer to my next goal and that is freeing
>> myself from the tyranny of Apple.
> 
> That is the big advantage of darktable, it’ll run on Linux.  However, if I 
> switch to Doze, with Linux running in VMs for getting real work done, it’ll 
> be easier to back up the linux boxen. Also it seems that all the astrophoto 
> apps run on Doze.
> 
> One thing I really like about On1 is that they have a focus peaking review 
> mode.  I haven’t compared their HDR and panorama software with lightroom.  
> They also have focus stacking that could be handy. 
> 
> Here are the questions that I’ve sent to them, however since it’s now the 
> weekend, I don’t expect an answer before the special is over?
> 
> I suspect this might be a bug report.
> I tried to get back to the state of a fresh installation, so I did an 
> uninstall and reinstall of photo raw.
> When I tried to migrate my lightroom (6) catalog, and photo raw came up, all 
> of my keywords were still in photo raw, even though I hadn't imported any 
> photos.
> 
> Related question
> Do all the migration tools work with lightroom 6? Or just lightroom CC?
> 
> Some of the photos seem to be getting the development data, some not.
> It’s also gone through and imported everything from my home directory.
> 
> I've been working on learning photo raw and importing my small lightroom 
> catalog on my travel computer.  
> None of the lightroom settings are coming over, I've tried various things, 
> and I'd like to delete all the photos from photo raw, but not from the hard 
> drive, and start all over.
> I've tried starting by holding the shift key.
> I've also tried deleting all of the .on1 files,
> it's still wedged.
> I can't find the database.
> How do I bring it back to "start”?
> 
> I'm reading the user guide and it doesn't mention an option for only 
> importing new photos.
> I can see two possibilities, if there is already a sidecar file, photo raw 
> could just skip that file. Or, it could copy the new file off of the memory 
> card of the camera to the new location (rather than just skipping it if its 
> there) and overwrite the sidecar file.
> 
> Your user guide on setting color labels says
> 6 (red), 7 (yellow), 8 (blue), 9 (green
> 
> but, like in lightroom
> 8 is green and 9 is blue
> 
> I'm looking to buy photo raw (assuming it will run on my desktop computer at 
> home). I read someplace that there isn't a way to back up my edits, like 
> backing up a lightroom catalog.  
> It's hard to believe that such an important basic feature was missed.
> 
> 
> 
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Re: PESO - Storm Clouds

[Larry Colen]

> On Dec 28, 2019, at 3:34 PM, John  wrote:
> 
> On 12/28/2019 15:44:59, Stanley Halpin wrote:
>> I have already sent my January submission to the PUG, came across this one 
>> and decided to share it this way.
>>  https://photos.stanhalpin.com/img/s/v-10/p3772380525-5.jpg
>> Meg’s family owned a cottage on a lake in Northern Lower Michigan. One of 
>> the joys of being there was sitting on the dock and watching the usual 
>> evening thunderstorm develop over Lake MIchigan, 20-25 miles away, and then 
>> slowly advance toward us across our smaller lake. We’ve sold the cottage, I 
>> don’t regret being free of the maintenance and upkeep commitments, but when 
>> I come across scenes like this I do briefly have second thoughts!
>> stan
> 
> That's gorgeous.

Agreed, very nice
> 
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Re: Free at last!

[John]

My brief experience with Lightroom was not quite a disaster, but it was close 
enough to make no never mind, so I never started using it.


I did go ahead and upgrade Photoshop to CS6 Extended when Adobe announced they 
were going down the rental-ware path and that CS6 would be the last version that 
did not require me to make monthly payments.


I've kind of followed Adobe's subsequent developments but they haven't 
introduced anything that I want or need since then, so I'm still happy with what 
I've got.


I'm glad y'all found alternatives that work for you & I hope quitting Adobe 
doesn't prove to be as big a hassle as quitting America On-Line used to be.


On 12/27/2019 18:17:28, Paul Sorenson wrote:
Good to see there's been another convert to ON1 PhotoRAW.  I've been using 
various iterations of their software for several years.  I still have LR 6.x 
installed but haven't used it in close to a year.  I think Dave Brooks uses a 
version of PhotoRAW and Larry has mentioned it in the past.


-p

On 12/27/2019 1:40 PM, Ralf R Radermacher wrote:

Just terminated my Adobe ransomware subscription for LR and PS.

Whoever it was on this list who made me aware of ON1 Photo RAW, I don't
remember, but if you know who you are...

You've done me a great service. Thanks again, mate!

Ralf

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Re: PESO surf scoter

[ann sanfedele]

enjoyable set... I like the first one of the scoter the best of the ones 
of him, but the one PJ called the bubble bath look is fun..


This is my favorite though, and the one after  it in relation to the 
first.  explaining that  what I figured as cozy sharing turned out to be 
a tussle


Are they dunlins or sand pipers?  So hard to tell who these little shore 
birds are..


20191225-LRC12423 



ann


On 12/27/2019 2:20 AM, Larry Colen wrote:

I’d never seen one of these fellows before.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/49280321901/in/album-72157712378057171/

More photos of him and some other birds at
https://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/albums/72157712378057171





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Re: PESO - Storm Clouds

[John]

On 12/28/2019 15:44:59, Stanley Halpin wrote:

I have already sent my January submission to the PUG, came across this one and 
decided to share it this way.

https://photos.stanhalpin.com/img/s/v-10/p3772380525-5.jpg

Meg’s family owned a cottage on a lake in Northern Lower Michigan. One of the 
joys of being there was sitting on the dock and watching the usual evening 
thunderstorm develop over Lake MIchigan, 20-25 miles away, and then slowly 
advance toward us across our smaller lake. We’ve sold the cottage, I don’t 
regret being free of the maintenance and upkeep commitments, but when I come 
across scenes like this I do briefly have second thoughts!

stan



That's gorgeous.

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Re: PESO - Storm Clouds

[ann sanfedele]

whoa! that's f''ing amazing!  It doesn't look possible -  love, love love it

ann

On 12/28/2019 3:44 PM, Stanley Halpin wrote:

I have already sent my January submission to the PUG, came across this one and 
decided to share it this way.

https://photos.stanhalpin.com/img/s/v-10/p3772380525-5.jpg

Meg’s family owned a cottage on a lake in Northern Lower Michigan. One of the 
joys of being there was sitting on the dock and watching the usual evening 
thunderstorm develop over Lake MIchigan, 20-25 miles away, and then slowly 
advance toward us across our smaller lake. We’ve sold the cottage, I don’t 
regret being free of the maintenance and upkeep commitments, but when I come 
across scenes like this I do briefly have second thoughts!

stan


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https://annsan.smugmug.com
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https://www.lulu.com/spotlight/annsan



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Re: Free at last!

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

>> But your comments highlight one of my basic annoyances with On1: they do not 
>> document adequately the basic operations of the software itself, or make it 
>> particularly apparent without some insight and creativity of your own. 
> 
> That is also frustratingly true of Lightroom, it’s just that after ten years 
> of using lightroom I’ve gained some intuitive understanding.  When they 
> changed the editing engine, they specifically did not describe how all the 
> sliders work.

hmm. I've not found anything about how LR works (db management, preferences and 
file locations, etc) to be mysterious, and Adobe's LR tutorial videos that 
demonstrate the way the rendering controls work are all excellent. 

>> I used the migration tools with Lightroom 6.14 and they worked fine, if very 
>> very slowly. Took well over three days to finish processing the 190,000 
>> entries in my main LR database, and some were not convertable. I have a 
>> couple of dozen different LR catalogs, but three are critical to my photo 
>> work on an ongoing basis. Frankly, I don't trust On1 to process them all 
>> well enough that I could discard the LR catalogs. 
> 
> One reason that I’m sticking with LR6.  I can always go back to Lightroom and 
> work on the photos that are already in my catalogs. If I went to CC classic 
> then as soon as I stop paying the ransomware, I wouldn’t be able to.

Not sure about that. But it doesn't really matter to me since every time I 
finish a rendering, I output it and store it in a TIFF and/or JPEG output file. 
I consider work in progress files in LR to be like negatives, and don't care if 
I lose the preliminary edits I might have made. 

>> Basic message: On1 Photo RAW is not a DAM. Lightroom is like a DAM with 
>> image processing capabilities, not a file browser. 
> 
> DAM?

Data Asset Manager

>> On1 Photo RAW is an interesting app and has some usefulness, but for the 
>> present I've erased it from my system and am getting work done again with LR 
>> Classic. Next setup that I'm studying use of is Photos enhanced with RAW 
>> Power, as I mentioned before. Meanwhile LR Classic costs me $10 a month… 
>> Until I find the right replacement for LR, that's inexpensive compared to 
>> not getting my photography done. :-)
> 
> If I could upgrade and not lose the ability to work on things as soon as I 
> stop paying the ransomware I would.
> 
> It might be worth trying the upgrade and seeing if LR6 could handle the files 
> afterwards.

LR Classic updates the LR .lrcat and preview files; the updated catalog file is 
no longer compatible with LR 6.14. Archive your LR 6.14 catalog folders first 
(only need to archive the .lrcat file, it will generate the previews when 
needed). The original image files, of course, are always compatible since they 
are basically untouched. 

G
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Re: Free at last!

[Larry Colen]

> On Dec 28, 2019, at 1:37 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi  wrote:
> 
>> On Dec 28, 2019, at 11:37 AM, Larry Colen  wrote:
>> 
>> ...
>> One thing I really like about On1 is that they have a focus peaking review 
>> mode.  I haven’t compared their HDR and panorama software with lightroom.  
>> They also have focus stacking that could be handy. 
> 
> There's much to like in On1's feature set. They have some nice things that LR 
> doesn't do. 
> 
> But your comments highlight one of my basic annoyances with On1: they do not 
> document adequately the basic operations of the software itself, or make it 
> particularly apparent without some insight and creativity of your own. 

That is also frustratingly true of Lightroom, it’s just that after ten years of 
using lightroom I’ve gained some intuitive understanding.  When they changed 
the editing engine, they specifically did not describe how all the sliders work.

> 
>> Here are the questions that I’ve sent to them, however since it’s now the 
>> weekend, I don’t expect an answer before the special is over?
>> ---
>>> I suspect this might be a bug report.
>>> I tried to get back to the state of a fresh installation, so I did an 
>>> uninstall and reinstall of photo raw.
>>> When I tried to migrate my lightroom (6) catalog, and photo raw came up, 
>>> all of my keywords were still in photo raw, even though I hadn't imported 
>>> any photos.
> 
> There are at least two directories in ~/Library/Application Support with 
> names that start with "ON1" which contain a bunch of caches and subfolders 
> with small dbs in them. THOUSANDS of them. There is also a directory in 
> /Library/Application Support named "ON1", but mine had no visible files in 
> it. The uninstall app does not remove these directories, and only if they 
> (and all the XXX.on1 sidecar files paired with every original file that you 
> told the app to look at) are deleted do you get to the state of a fresh 
> installation. 
> 
>>> Related question
>>> Do all the migration tools work with lightroom 6? Or just lightroom CC?
> 
> I used the migration tools with Lightroom 6.14 and they worked fine, if very 
> very slowly. Took well over three days to finish processing the 190,000 
> entries in my main LR database, and some were not convertable. I have a 
> couple of dozen different LR catalogs, but three are critical to my photo 
> work on an ongoing basis. Frankly, I don't trust On1 to process them all well 
> enough that I could discard the LR catalogs. 

One reason that I’m sticking with LR6.  I can always go back to Lightroom and 
work on the photos that are already in my catalogs. If I went to CC classic 
then as soon as I stop paying the ransomware, I wouldn’t be able to.


> 
> As I said, operation of the software is unclear. I'm not in love with any 
> software that litters my storage drives with its sidecar files in tons of 
> places that I don't know about or expect. When I wrote a script to remove all 
> the .on1 sidecar files from my working external drive, it deleted 238,000 
> small files. (!) 

Yeah, there are some real issues with the way they do that.

> 
>>> I'm looking to buy photo raw (assuming it will run on my desktop computer 
>>> at home). I read someplace that there isn't a way to back up my edits, like 
>>> backing up a lightroom catalog.  
>>> It's hard to believe that such an important basic feature was missed.
> 
> There's no way internal to the app that I've found. The external way is to 
> simply use backup software that manages backing up and archiving the 
> directories that On1 has been told to process as well as the sub-directories 
> in /Library/Application Software and ~/Library/Application Software that I 
> mentioned above. 
> 
> Basic message: On1 Photo RAW is not a DAM. Lightroom is like a DAM with image 
> processing capabilities, not a file browser. 

DAM?

> 
> On1 Photo RAW is an interesting app and has some usefulness, but for the 
> present I've erased it from my system and am getting work done again with LR 
> Classic. Next setup that I'm studying use of is Photos enhanced with RAW 
> Power, as I mentioned before. Meanwhile LR Classic costs me $10 a month… 
> Until I find the right replacement for LR, that's inexpensive compared to not 
> getting my photography done. :-)

If I could upgrade and not lose the ability to work on things as soon as I stop 
paying the ransomware I would.

It might be worth trying the upgrade and seeing if LR6 could handle the files 
afterwards.



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Re: Free at last!

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

> On Dec 28, 2019, at 11:37 AM, Larry Colen  wrote:
> 
> ...
> One thing I really like about On1 is that they have a focus peaking review 
> mode.  I haven’t compared their HDR and panorama software with lightroom.  
> They also have focus stacking that could be handy. 

There's much to like in On1's feature set. They have some nice things that LR 
doesn't do. 

But your comments highlight one of my basic annoyances with On1: they do not 
document adequately the basic operations of the software itself, or make it 
particularly apparent without some insight and creativity of your own. 

> Here are the questions that I’ve sent to them, however since it’s now the 
> weekend, I don’t expect an answer before the special is over?
> ---
>> I suspect this might be a bug report.
>> I tried to get back to the state of a fresh installation, so I did an 
>> uninstall and reinstall of photo raw.
>> When I tried to migrate my lightroom (6) catalog, and photo raw came up, all 
>> of my keywords were still in photo raw, even though I hadn't imported any 
>> photos.

There are at least two directories in ~/Library/Application Support with names 
that start with "ON1" which contain a bunch of caches and subfolders with small 
dbs in them. THOUSANDS of them. There is also a directory in 
/Library/Application Support named "ON1", but mine had no visible files in it. 
The uninstall app does not remove these directories, and only if they (and all 
the XXX.on1 sidecar files paired with every original file that you told the app 
to look at) are deleted do you get to the state of a fresh installation. 

>> Related question
>> Do all the migration tools work with lightroom 6? Or just lightroom CC?

I used the migration tools with Lightroom 6.14 and they worked fine, if very 
very slowly. Took well over three days to finish processing the 190,000 entries 
in my main LR database, and some were not convertable. I have a couple of dozen 
different LR catalogs, but three are critical to my photo work on an ongoing 
basis. Frankly, I don't trust On1 to process them all well enough that I could 
discard the LR catalogs. 

>> Some of the photos seem to be getting the development data, some not.
>> It’s also gone through and imported everything from my home directory.
>> I've been working on learning photo raw and importing my small lightroom 
>> catalog on my travel computer.  
>> None of the lightroom settings are coming over, I've tried various things, 
>> and I'd like to delete all the photos from photo raw, but not from the hard 
>> drive, and start all over.
>> I've tried starting by holding the shift key.
>> I've also tried deleting all of the .on1 files,
>> it's still wedged.
>> I can't find the database.
>> How do I bring it back to "start”?
>> 
On1 Photo RAW  should only look at the directory tree that you tell it the 
root of. Of course, if you're doing an LR conversion and that tree in the LR 
database has any link to the root of your user directory, it will one way or 
another process your entire user directory (and possibly litter it with .on1 
sidecar files). 

Some photos it understands the rendering parameters, others not. I haven't 
figured out the whys and wherefores of that. All standard IPTC data is ingested 
and some EXIF data, it seems, on a file by file basis. For some LR operations 
it renders out a TIFF, I think. For others, it cannot read the parametric 
instructions and it drops the ball completely. 

As I said, operation of the software is unclear. I'm not in love with any 
software that litters my storage drives with its sidecar files in tons of 
places that I don't know about or expect. When I wrote a script to remove all 
the .on1 sidecar files from my working external drive, it deleted 238,000 small 
files. (!) 

>> I'm reading the user guide and it doesn't mention an option for only 
>> importing new photos.
>> I can see two possibilities, if there is already a sidecar file, photo raw 
>> could just skip that file. Or, it could copy the new file off of the memory 
>> card of the camera to the new location (rather than just skipping it if its 
>> there) and overwrite the sidecar file.

On1 Photo RAW operates like a file browser with image processing capabilities. 
If you only want to import new photos, be careful not to import your Lightroom 
catalog, create a new directory for each new import, and then add that new 
directory explicitly to the On1 app's "known file locations" so it can process 
the new files. Clumsy at best. 

>> I'm looking to buy photo raw (assuming it will run on my desktop computer at 
>> home). I read someplace that there isn't a way to back up my edits, like 
>> backing up a lightroom catalog.  
>> It's hard to believe that such an important basic feature was missed.

There's no way internal to the app that I've found. The external way is to 
simply use backup software that manages backing up and archiving the 
directories that On1 has been told to process as well as the 

Re: PESO - Storm Clouds

[Ralf R Radermacher]

Am 28.12.19 um 21:44 schrieb Stanley Halpin:

I have already sent my January submission to the PUG, came across this one and 
decided to share it this way.

https://photos.stanhalpin.com/img/s/v-10/p3772380525-5.jpg


Brilliant. Thanks for showing.

Ralf

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Re: PESO - Storm Clouds

[Paul Sorenson]

Don't blame you for missing scenes like that.  Lovely image.

-p

On 12/28/2019 2:44 PM, Stanley Halpin wrote:

I have already sent my January submission to the PUG, came across this one and 
decided to share it this way.

https://photos.stanhalpin.com/img/s/v-10/p3772380525-5.jpg

Meg’s family owned a cottage on a lake in Northern Lower Michigan. One of the 
joys of being there was sitting on the dock and watching the usual evening 
thunderstorm develop over Lake MIchigan, 20-25 miles away, and then slowly 
advance toward us across our smaller lake. We’ve sold the cottage, I don’t 
regret being free of the maintenance and upkeep commitments, but when I come 
across scenes like this I do briefly have second thoughts!

stan


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Studio1941

Sooner or later "different" scares people.


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PESO - Storm Clouds

[Stanley Halpin]

I have already sent my January submission to the PUG, came across this one and 
decided to share it this way.

https://photos.stanhalpin.com/img/s/v-10/p3772380525-5.jpg

Meg’s family owned a cottage on a lake in Northern Lower Michigan. One of the 
joys of being there was sitting on the dock and watching the usual evening 
thunderstorm develop over Lake MIchigan, 20-25 miles away, and then slowly 
advance toward us across our smaller lake. We’ve sold the cottage, I don’t 
regret being free of the maintenance and upkeep commitments, but when I come 
across scenes like this I do briefly have second thoughts!

stan
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Re: Free at last!

[lrc]

I'll probably just go for the cheap one

On December 28, 2019 7:47:33 AM PST, Ralf R Radermacher  wrote:
>Am 28.12.19 um 01:36 schrieb Larry Colen:
>
>> This motivated me to give a look, they do seem to be having a holiday
>sale going on for a few more days.
>
>I'm still trying to figure out which of the three 'holiday special'
>options to go for:
>
>- ON1 Photo RAW at 79.99 USD
>
>- ON1 Photo RAW with ON1 Plus at 129.99
>
>- ON1 Photo RAW with ON1 Plus Pro at also 129.99
>
>I'm somewhat unimpressed by the 1 year Smugmug membership included in
>all three of them. Yet another ransom scheme.
>
>Does anyone here have Plus or Plus Pro? Is it worth the money?
>
>Ralf
>
>--
>Ralf R. Radermacher  -  Köln/Cologne, Germany
>Blog  : http://the-real-fotoralf.blogspot.com
>Audio : http://aporee.org/maps/projects/fotoralf
>Web   : http://www.fotoralf.de
>
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Re: Free at last!

[Larry Colen]

> On Dec 28, 2019, at 7:39 AM, Ralf R Radermacher  wrote:
> 
> Am 28.12.19 um 15:14 schrieb Godfrey DiGiorgi:
> 
>> I must say: Studying the other offerings on the market points out to me how 
>> good a job Lightroom is. Adobe is the irritating part of it.
> 
> Fair enough and I'm aware that I'm losing some very handy features. But
> the idea of all my work being taken hostage by a company whose business
> model is a glorified protection racket just doesn't appeal to me any
> longer.

If it weren’t for the ransomware feature, I’d stay with lightroom.  If I had 
better income, I’d still be tempted.  I have no interest in going through the 
bother of learning photoshop, and especially not paying for it.

> 
> Besides, it takes me one step closer to my next goal and that is freeing
> myself from the tyranny of Apple.

That is the big advantage of darktable, it’ll run on Linux.  However, if I 
switch to Doze, with Linux running in VMs for getting real work done, it’ll be 
easier to back up the linux boxen. Also it seems that all the astrophoto apps 
run on Doze.

One thing I really like about On1 is that they have a focus peaking review 
mode.  I haven’t compared their HDR and panorama software with lightroom.  They 
also have focus stacking that could be handy. 

Here are the questions that I’ve sent to them, however since it’s now the 
weekend, I don’t expect an answer before the special is over?

I suspect this might be a bug report.
I tried to get back to the state of a fresh installation, so I did an uninstall 
and reinstall of photo raw.
When I tried to migrate my lightroom (6) catalog, and photo raw came up, all of 
my keywords were still in photo raw, even though I hadn't imported any photos.

Related question
Do all the migration tools work with lightroom 6? Or just lightroom CC?

Some of the photos seem to be getting the development data, some not.
It’s also gone through and imported everything from my home directory.

I've been working on learning photo raw and importing my small lightroom 
catalog on my travel computer.  
None of the lightroom settings are coming over, I've tried various things, and 
I'd like to delete all the photos from photo raw, but not from the hard drive, 
and start all over.
I've tried starting by holding the shift key.
I've also tried deleting all of the .on1 files,
it's still wedged.
I can't find the database.
How do I bring it back to "start”?

I'm reading the user guide and it doesn't mention an option for only importing 
new photos.
I can see two possibilities, if there is already a sidecar file, photo raw 
could just skip that file. Or, it could copy the new file off of the memory 
card of the camera to the new location (rather than just skipping it if its 
there) and overwrite the sidecar file.

Your user guide on setting color labels says
6 (red), 7 (yellow), 8 (blue), 9 (green

but, like in lightroom
8 is green and 9 is blue

I'm looking to buy photo raw (assuming it will run on my desktop computer at 
home). I read someplace that there isn't a way to back up my edits, like 
backing up a lightroom catalog.  
It's hard to believe that such an important basic feature was missed.



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Re: Free at last!

[Paul Sorenson]

Not hardly a fair comparison to compare software you've tried for 
several weeks to software you've been using for years.


-p

On 12/28/2019 8:14 AM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:

Might have been me, Ralf. Not sure.

I have been working with On1 for several weeks, and finding the organization 
and UI increasingly frustrating. The instructional aids are crappy (yes, there 
is a manual that you can download from the On1 website .. it's better than the 
videos IMO but not much). To the extent that I actually stopped using it and 
installed Lightroom Classic on my Catalina system.. I can get so much more done 
with Lightroom in so little time. Sigh. There are things about Adobe in general 
that make my skin crawl, but that which works best for my photography is what 
I'm after.

I only downloaded Lr Classic … I haven't touched Photoshop in years, and in the 
extraordinarily rare moments when I might need something it has, Affinity Photo 
does as well.

I don't think the $80 I spent on On1 Photo RAW is a waste. It can work as a 
plug in to Lr and has some additional capabilities that work well. I just think 
it's overall UI and workflow is not up to what I want/need for my photography.

My next stab at total Adobe removal is going to be RAW Power by Gentlemen 
Coders. It has the additional advantage of being able to run all three—macOS, 
iOS, and iPadOS—and works in tight conjunction wiith Photos and the existing 
Photos image libraries. I've dabbled with it and so far like it. To evaluate it 
effectively, I will make an effort to actually learn Photos as well as RAW 
Power.

I must say: Studying the other offerings on the market points out to me how 
good a job Lightroom is. Adobe is the irritating part of it. Sigh again.

G


On Dec 27, 2019, at 11:40 AM, Ralf R Radermacher  wrote:

Just terminated my Adobe ransomware subscription for LR and PS.

Whoever it was on this list who made me aware of ON1 Photo RAW, I don't
remember, but if you know who you are...

You've done me a great service. Thanks again, mate!

Ralf



--
Paul Sorenson
Studio1941

Sooner or later "different" scares people.


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Re: Free at last!

[Ralf R Radermacher]

Am 28.12.19 um 01:36 schrieb Larry Colen:


This motivated me to give a look, they do seem to be having a holiday sale 
going on for a few more days.


I'm still trying to figure out which of the three 'holiday special'
options to go for:

- ON1 Photo RAW at 79.99 USD

- ON1 Photo RAW with ON1 Plus at 129.99

- ON1 Photo RAW with ON1 Plus Pro at also 129.99

I'm somewhat unimpressed by the 1 year Smugmug membership included in
all three of them. Yet another ransom scheme.

Does anyone here have Plus or Plus Pro? Is it worth the money?

Ralf

--
Ralf R. Radermacher  -  Köln/Cologne, Germany
Blog  : http://the-real-fotoralf.blogspot.com
Audio : http://aporee.org/maps/projects/fotoralf
Web   : http://www.fotoralf.de

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Re: Free at last!

[Paul Sorenson]

Unless they have changed their policies very recently, that's not 
correct.  You don't need to have the Pro Plus to get updates to the 
current version throughout the year.  When a completely new version 
comes out the cost to upgrade has typically been around 80 USD - or you 
can keep using your current version as long as you like.


-p

On 12/28/2019 3:56 AM, Ralf R Radermacher wrote:

Am 28.12.19 um 00:17 schrieb Paul Sorenson:

Good to see there's been another convert to ON1 PhotoRAW.


Then again, I've had a closer look at their offer, last night. If you
want to stay up-to-date with their current versions you'll have to
subscribe to their Pro Plus scheme at 145 euros per year which is the
same price as Adobe's CC rate for LR and PS. What a coincidence...

The difference being that with ON1 you can still use the software after
you've ended your subscription but OTOH you don't get the added benefit
of Photoshop.

To quote a famous German soccer player: sometimes you lose, sometimes
the others win.

Still, ON1 it will be from now on.

Ralf

--
Ralf R. Radermacher  -  Köln/Cologne, Germany
Blog  : http://the-real-fotoralf.blogspot.com
Audio : http://aporee.org/maps/projects/fotoralf
Web   : http://www.fotoralf.de


--
Paul Sorenson
Studio1941

Sooner or later "different" scares people.


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Re: Free at last!

[Ralf R Radermacher]

Am 28.12.19 um 15:14 schrieb Godfrey DiGiorgi:


I must say: Studying the other offerings on the market points out to me how 
good a job Lightroom is. Adobe is the irritating part of it.


Fair enough and I'm aware that I'm losing some very handy features. But
the idea of all my work being taken hostage by a company whose business
model is a glorified protection racket just doesn't appeal to me any
longer.

Besides, it takes me one step closer to my next goal and that is freeing
myself from the tyranny of Apple.

Ralf

--
Ralf R. Radermacher  -  Köln/Cologne, Germany
Blog  : http://the-real-fotoralf.blogspot.com
Audio : http://aporee.org/maps/projects/fotoralf
Web   : http://www.fotoralf.de

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Re: Free at last!

[Paul Sorenson]

No written tutorial per se but you can download the manual here...

https://on1help.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/206373527--ON1-User-Guides

-p

On 12/27/2019 7:58 PM, Larry Colen wrote:



On Dec 27, 2019, at 11:40 AM, Ralf R Radermacher  wrote:

Just terminated my Adobe ransomware subscription for LR and PS.

Whoever it was on this list who made me aware of ON1 Photo RAW, I don't
remember, but if you know who you are...

You've done me a great service. Thanks again, mate!

I’ve installed the 30 day trial on my laptop (I’m out of town for a bit) and am 
giving it a try on my laptop. I’m not certain that I’ll be able to run it on my 
desktop machine. It’s a 4,1 mac pro that I’ll be updating to high sierra when I 
get home (after the holiday special ends).

Is there a good written intro tutorial for photo raw?  I absolutely despise 
watching videos.



Ralf

--
Ralf R. Radermacher  -  Köln/Cologne, Germany
Blog  : http://the-real-fotoralf.blogspot.com
Audio : http://aporee.org/maps/projects/fotoralf
Web   : http://www.fotoralf.de

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--
Paul Sorenson
Studio1941

Sooner or later "different" scares people.


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Re: Free at last!

[Paul Stenquist]

I’m still using Photoshop for digital rendering as I have since day one. It’s 
so familiar that my workflow is effortless and automatic and I have immediate 
access to it’s more esoteric capabilities when needed. Bit Im still running 
CS6, so I can’t upgrade my Mac OS beyond High Sierra (as far as I know.) 
someday I’ll have to switch or subscribe to the cloud version.

Paul

> On Dec 28, 2019, at 9:15 AM, Godfrey DiGiorgi  wrote:
> 
> Might have been me, Ralf. Not sure. 
> 
> I have been working with On1 for several weeks, and finding the organization 
> and UI increasingly frustrating. The instructional aids are crappy (yes, 
> there is a manual that you can download from the On1 website .. it's better 
> than the videos IMO but not much). To the extent that I actually stopped 
> using it and installed Lightroom Classic on my Catalina system.. I can get so 
> much more done with Lightroom in so little time. Sigh. There are things about 
> Adobe in general that make my skin crawl, but that which works best for my 
> photography is what I'm after. 
> 
> I only downloaded Lr Classic … I haven't touched Photoshop in years, and in 
> the extraordinarily rare moments when I might need something it has, Affinity 
> Photo does as well. 
> 
> I don't think the $80 I spent on On1 Photo RAW is a waste. It can work as a 
> plug in to Lr and has some additional capabilities that work well. I just 
> think it's overall UI and workflow is not up to what I want/need for my 
> photography.
> 
> My next stab at total Adobe removal is going to be RAW Power by Gentlemen 
> Coders. It has the additional advantage of being able to run all three—macOS, 
> iOS, and iPadOS—and works in tight conjunction wiith Photos and the existing 
> Photos image libraries. I've dabbled with it and so far like it. To evaluate 
> it effectively, I will make an effort to actually learn Photos as well as RAW 
> Power. 
> 
> I must say: Studying the other offerings on the market points out to me how 
> good a job Lightroom is. Adobe is the irritating part of it. Sigh again. 
> 
> G
> 
>> On Dec 27, 2019, at 11:40 AM, Ralf R Radermacher  wrote:
>> 
>> Just terminated my Adobe ransomware subscription for LR and PS.
>> 
>> Whoever it was on this list who made me aware of ON1 Photo RAW, I don't
>> remember, but if you know who you are...
>> 
>> You've done me a great service. Thanks again, mate!
>> 
>> Ralf
> 
> 
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> the directions.


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Re: Free at last!

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

Might have been me, Ralf. Not sure. 

I have been working with On1 for several weeks, and finding the organization 
and UI increasingly frustrating. The instructional aids are crappy (yes, there 
is a manual that you can download from the On1 website .. it's better than the 
videos IMO but not much). To the extent that I actually stopped using it and 
installed Lightroom Classic on my Catalina system.. I can get so much more done 
with Lightroom in so little time. Sigh. There are things about Adobe in general 
that make my skin crawl, but that which works best for my photography is what 
I'm after. 

I only downloaded Lr Classic … I haven't touched Photoshop in years, and in the 
extraordinarily rare moments when I might need something it has, Affinity Photo 
does as well. 

I don't think the $80 I spent on On1 Photo RAW is a waste. It can work as a 
plug in to Lr and has some additional capabilities that work well. I just think 
it's overall UI and workflow is not up to what I want/need for my photography.

My next stab at total Adobe removal is going to be RAW Power by Gentlemen 
Coders. It has the additional advantage of being able to run all three—macOS, 
iOS, and iPadOS—and works in tight conjunction wiith Photos and the existing 
Photos image libraries. I've dabbled with it and so far like it. To evaluate it 
effectively, I will make an effort to actually learn Photos as well as RAW 
Power. 

I must say: Studying the other offerings on the market points out to me how 
good a job Lightroom is. Adobe is the irritating part of it. Sigh again. 

G

> On Dec 27, 2019, at 11:40 AM, Ralf R Radermacher  wrote:
> 
> Just terminated my Adobe ransomware subscription for LR and PS.
> 
> Whoever it was on this list who made me aware of ON1 Photo RAW, I don't
> remember, but if you know who you are...
> 
> You've done me a great service. Thanks again, mate!
> 
> Ralf


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Re: Free at last!

[David J Brooks]

On Fri, Dec 27, 2019 at 6:18 PM Paul Sorenson  wrote:

> Good to see there's been another convert to ON1 PhotoRAW.  I've been
> using various iterations of their software for several years.  I still
> have LR 6.x installed but haven't used it in close to a year.  I think
> Dave Brooks uses a version of PhotoRAW and Larry has mentioned it in the
> past.
>

I still have LR6 standalone and use the ON1 2018 version on occasion. Im
still learning where ON1 hides sttuff.:-)

Dave


> -p
>
> On 12/27/2019 1:40 PM, Ralf R Radermacher wrote:
> > Just terminated my Adobe ransomware subscription for LR and PS.
> >
> > Whoever it was on this list who made me aware of ON1 Photo RAW, I don't
> > remember, but if you know who you are...
> >
> > You've done me a great service. Thanks again, mate!
> >
> > Ralf
> >
> > --
> > Ralf R. Radermacher  -  Köln/Cologne, Germany
> > Blog  : http://the-real-fotoralf.blogspot.com
> > Audio : http://aporee.org/maps/projects/fotoralf
> > Web   : http://www.fotoralf.de
> >
> --
> Paul Sorenson
> Studio1941
>
> Sooner or later "different" scares people.
>
>
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>


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Re: Free at last!

[Bob Pdml]

> On 28 Dec 2019, at 09:56, Ralf R Radermacher  wrote:
> 
>> 
> 
> To quote a famous German soccer player: sometimes you lose, sometimes
> the others win.
> 
> 

We have a similar quote from a famous English player: football's a simple game 
- 22 men chase a ball around for 90 minutes and at the end Germany win.



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Re: Free at last!

[Ralf R Radermacher]

Am 28.12.19 um 00:17 schrieb Paul Sorenson:

Good to see there's been another convert to ON1 PhotoRAW.


Then again, I've had a closer look at their offer, last night. If you
want to stay up-to-date with their current versions you'll have to
subscribe to their Pro Plus scheme at 145 euros per year which is the
same price as Adobe's CC rate for LR and PS. What a coincidence...

The difference being that with ON1 you can still use the software after
you've ended your subscription but OTOH you don't get the added benefit
of Photoshop.

To quote a famous German soccer player: sometimes you lose, sometimes
the others win.

Still, ON1 it will be from now on.

Ralf

--
Ralf R. Radermacher  -  Köln/Cologne, Germany
Blog  : http://the-real-fotoralf.blogspot.com
Audio : http://aporee.org/maps/projects/fotoralf
Web   : http://www.fotoralf.de

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Re: Free at last!

[Ralf R Radermacher]

Am 28.12.19 um 01:36 schrieb Larry Colen:


The only problem is that some idiot decided that it would be cute to have a 
bunch of snowflakes drifting across their website, and they are driving me 
crazy(er).


...and apparently this nonsense is wasting a lot of energy. While I have
their website open with the stupid snowfall my Mac Mini get's
increasingly noisy with the CPU reaching 90 deg c and the processor fan
running at 5000 rpm. Things get quiet again as soon as I close that window.

No such prob on the Macbook Pro where it seems the GPU takes care of the
snow (the Mini has no GPU).

Ralf

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Re: Free at last!

[mike wilson]

> On 27 December 2019 at 20:49 Postmaster  wrote:
> 
> 
> Ralf R Radermacher wrote:
> 
> >Just terminated my Adobe ransomware subscription for LR and PS.
> >
> >Whoever it was on this list who made me aware of ON1 Photo RAW, I don't
> >remember, but if you know who you are...
> >
> >You've done me a great service. Thanks again, mate!
> 
> Isn't it nice that we still have a choice these days?
> 
> I'm convinced Adobe models itself after the airline industry in
> regards to customer service. Probably RyanAir in particular...

The only fault is that ON1 equates PC with later versions of Windows.  
Confusing hardware with an operating system is the sort of mistake I would 
expect from the more knuckle-dragging student rather than a software 
development company.

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