Re: [OT] Nikon bites with 12MPix D2X
Mark Roberts wrote: From what I gathered from reading Nikon's extensive description of the LABCAST sensor, it *is* basically a CMOS sensor in terms of architecture and function,but since it's made using junction Field Effect Transistors instead of Metal Oxide Field Effect Transistors they are technically correct in not calling it a CMOS sensor. They way it functions is basically the same as a CMOS sensor (each pixel has its own charge-to-voltage converter and the A-D conversion is done by other on-chip circuits) and completely different from a CCD (charge transferred to busses and carried off-chip before being converted to a voltage then further separate chips perform A-D conversion). Thanks for that Mark. Electronics and my brain have a hard time co existing.:-) Dave Brooks
Re: [OT] Nikon bites with 12MPix D2X
On Sep 17, 2004, at 3:17 AM, Mark Roberts wrote: Yep. The 6-megapixel APS and 11 megapixel full-frame are very close indeed. OK, you won ;-) BTW - informaton about 22MP FF from Canon is simply fake :-) http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1020message=10298732 -- Best regards Sylwek
Re: [OT] Nikon bites with 12MPix D2X
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hum. I thought this labcast sensor in my D2h was the next wave for Nikon,then they go and put a Cmos sensor in the D2x. Wonder what Nikon is trying to tell me here. From what I gathered from reading Nikon's extensive description of the LABCAST sensor, it *is* basically a CMOS sensor in terms of architecture and function,but since it's made using junction Field Effect Transistors instead of Metal Oxide Field Effect Transistors they are technically correct in not calling it a CMOS sensor. They way it functions is basically the same as a CMOS sensor (each pixel has its own charge-to-voltage converter and the A-D conversion is done by other on-chip circuits) and completely different from a CCD (charge transferred to busses and carried off-chip before being converted to a voltage then further separate chips perform A-D conversion).
[OT] Nikon bites with 12MPix D2X
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0409/04091605nikond2x.asp Velly intellesting - they've used CMOS sensor for the first time :-) -- Best Regards Sylwek
Re: [OT] Nikon bites with 12MPix D2X
No full frame as announced, yet what a disappointment. The day full 35mm frame gets back as a standard looks further than ever. The 12 MPixel on the APS senzor will stress the lens quality issue - I doubt any Nikon zoom will be sharp at that resolution. Also the analog white balance may very well hint to serious sensor noise: they probably had to do it in the analog stage to limit the amplification of an already high noise. Servus, Alin Sylwester wrote: SP http://www.dpreview.com/news/0409/04091605nikond2x.asp SP Velly intellesting - they've used CMOS sensor for the first time :-)
Re: [OT] Nikon bites with 12MPix D2X
Alin Flaider wrote on 16.09.04 9:39: No full frame as announced, yet what a disappointment. The day full 35mm frame gets back as a standard looks further than ever. The 12 MPixel on the APS senzor will stress the lens quality issue - I doubt any Nikon zoom will be sharp at that resolution. Also the analog white balance may very well hint to serious sensor noise: they probably had to do it in the analog stage to limit the amplification of an already high noise. We'll have to wait for real world tests, technolgy is changing rapidly and thus we may be wrong in our guesses :-) Either way from the specifications alone (and looks too ;-), D2X looks very impressive. -- Best Regards Sylwek
Re: [OT] Nikon bites with 12MPix D2X
Sylwester Pietrzyk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.dpreview.com/news/0409/04091605nikond2x.asp Velly intellesting - they've used CMOS sensor for the first time :-) Still DX size sensor (1.5 FOV crop). I can hear the laughter and champagne corks popping at Canon...
Re: [OT] Nikon bites with 12MPix D2X
On 16 Sep 2004 at 15:58, Alin Flaider wrote: BTW, Nikon made public its support for full-frame in a very original manner, with the announcement of F6. It'll be interesting to see how this goes with the small sensors in the digital line. http://nikonimaging.com/global/news/2004/0916_02.htm Someone must have made a mistake, it's not April 1st, I heard here years ago that the F5 would be the very last film F series body. LOL PS I wonder if they could have squeezed in an SD card to DL the shot info :-) Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://members.ozemail.com.au/~distudio/publications/ Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998
Re: [OT] Nikon bites with 12MPix D2X
Mark Roberts wrote on 16.09.04 18:09: And Chasseur d'Images is saying the Canon EOS 2D full-frame, 22 megapixel camera is coming soon. Maybe, but the price??? So far 11MPix 1Ds is almost twice as expensive as supposed price for D2X (about 4000-4500USD). So there is always trade off :-) -- Best Regards Sylwek
Re: [OT] Nikon bites with 12MPix D2X
Rob Studdert wrote on 16.09.04 15:16: Someone must have made a mistake, it's not April 1st, I heard here years ago that the F5 would be the very last film F series body. LOL Maybe rumours that F6 will be able to accomodate digital back were true? PS I wonder if they could have squeezed in an SD card to DL the shot info :-) LOL! ;-) -- Best Regards Sylwek
Re[2]: [OT] Nikon bites with 12MPix D2X
Sylwester wrote: SP On the other hand you can say that with SP APS-C sensor you get better use of long lenses - not loosing resolution in SP case of D2X. If those long lenses can cope with the 88 lpm resolution of the 12 MP sensor. SP Really? Can you point to web page with this official annoucement? Mea culpa, I read the headlines backwards. In fact they announced new EF-S lenses: http://www.photim.com/INFOS/UneInfo.asp?N=1034 SP Nice machine. There were rumours that it would be capable of taking FF SP digital back, but it was not confirmed. It's hard to believe Nikon would bring a F6 without some plans to match it digitally in the long run. Cause D2x falls quite short of a D6... Servus, Alin
Re: Re[2]: [OT] Nikon bites with 12MPix D2X
Alin Flaider wrote on 16.09.04 15:29: If those long lenses can cope with the 88 lpm resolution of the 12 MP sensor. Of course, that's why it is worth of waiting for real world tests :-) Mea culpa, I read the headlines backwards. In fact they announced new EF-S lenses: http://www.photim.com/INFOS/UneInfo.asp?N=1034 I've got you :-) It's hard to believe Nikon would bring a F6 without some plans to match it digitally in the long run. Cause D2x falls quite short of a D6... We can only guess for now :-) -- Best Regards Sylwek
Re: [OT] Nikon bites with 12MPix D2X
Rob Studdert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 16 Sep 2004 at 15:58, Alin Flaider wrote: BTW, Nikon made public its support for full-frame in a very original manner, with the announcement of F6. It'll be interesting to see how this goes with the small sensors in the digital line. http://nikonimaging.com/global/news/2004/0916_02.htm Someone must have made a mistake, it's not April 1st, I heard here years ago that the F5 would be the very last film F series body. LOL I was just thinking that! I suspect, however, that Nikon had committed to the F6 project long ago and had too much invested to cancel it even after it no longer made sense from a sales standpoint. It's just a marketing tool now. BTW: Didn't the F5 have interchangeable prisms?
Re: [OT] Nikon bites with 12MPix D2X
Mark Roberts wrote on 16.09.04 18:47: BTW: Didn't the F5 have interchangeable prisms? Yes it had. -- Best Regards Sylwek
Re: Re[2]: [OT] Nikon bites with 12MPix D2X
Alin Flaider [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sylwester wrote: SP On the other hand you can say that with SP APS-C sensor you get better use of long lenses - not loosing resolution in SP case of D2X. If those long lenses can cope with the 88 lpm resolution of the 12 MP sensor. The real test of those tiny pixels is the noise level. Canon has made amazing strides with lowering the noise levels of CMOS sensors. Presumably Nikon has as well because the pixel pitch of the D2X is about 20% smaller than the 8 megapixel Canon 1D-II (currently the finest pixel pitch of any sensor on the market). I'll bet that even if the predictions of the EOS 2D having 22 megapixels are wrong (I'm skeptical myself) Canon will apply the low noise technology from the 1D-II sensor to a new full-frame sensor and create an ultra-low-noise 11-12 megapixel camera that Nikon will be hard pressed to match with pixels that are almost half as big.
Re: Re[2]: [OT] Nikon bites with 12MPix D2X
Mark Roberts wrote on 16.09.04 18:57: I'll bet that even if the predictions of the EOS 2D having 22 megapixels are wrong (I'm skeptical myself) Canon will apply the low noise technology from the 1D-II sensor to a new full-frame sensor and create an ultra-low-noise 11-12 megapixel camera that Nikon will be hard pressed to match with pixels that are almost half as big. But you forgot that there is certain point, when bigger pixels won't bring lower noise levels. EOS-1Ds has similar noise level to coming from the same era EOS-D60 or 10D despite having much bigger pixel pitch. Kodak's FF DSLRs are even worse than that. This is caused AFAIR mainly due to much longer signal paths. -- Best Regards Sylwek
Re: [OT] Nikon bites with 12MPix D2X
On 16 Sep 2004 at 15:51, Sylwester Pietrzyk wrote: Mark Roberts wrote on 16.09.04 18:47: BTW: Didn't the F5 have interchangeable prisms? Yes it had. I thought that was an F series given? That's sad, probably impossible to do with all the gadgetry now housed in the prism. I used David Ns Refconvertor on my *ist D last time we met up, I'd never tried one before, I appreciate my LX finders now :-) Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://members.ozemail.com.au/~distudio/publications/ Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998
Re: [OT] Nikon bites with 12MPix D2X
Rob Studdert wrote on 16.09.04 16:07: I thought that was an F series given? That's sad, probably impossible to do with all the gadgetry now housed in the prism. I used David Ns Refconvertor on my *ist D last time we met up, I'd never tried one before, I appreciate my LX finders now :-) LX finders were really nice! F3-4-5 had nice choice of them too :-) Sadly we won't probably ever see small format DSLR with interchangeable finder :-( -- Best Regards Sylwek
Re: [OT] Nikon bites with 12MPix D2X
with the announcement of F6. It'll be interesting to see how this goes with the small sensors in the digital line. http://nikonimaging.com/global/news/2004/0916_02.htm Well, what would be *really* funny would be if the F6 took APS film... I think Nikon missed an opportunity both for humor and lens line consistency here. j -- Juan Buhler http://www.jbuhler.com blog at http://www.jbuhler.com/blog
Re: [OT] Nikon bites with 12MPix D2X
Juan Buhler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: with the announcement of F6. It'll be interesting to see how this goes with the small sensors in the digital line. http://nikonimaging.com/global/news/2004/0916_02.htm Well, what would be *really* funny would be if the F6 took APS film... Thanks. I just spit coffee all over my monitor! g Nice to have you back on the list Juan!
Re: [OT] Nikon bites with 12MPix D2X
Just a comment: I think the folks on this list really overestimate the importance of extreme wide angles. Most of the market for these kinds of cameras use mostly telephotos, so that concentrating the pixels into a smaller space is an advantage. The noise issue for the denser sensor remains, of course, and we'll have to see how well Nikon handles that. Just my humble opinion, of course . . .
Re: [OT] Nikon bites with 12MPix D2X
Sylwester wrote: SP EOS-1Ds has similar noise level to coming from the same SP era EOS-D60 or 10D despite having much bigger pixel pitch. I think they have the same pixel pitch. Servus, Alin
Re: [OT] Nikon bites with 12MPix D2X
Ah so. Nikon is still hungery! I assume this is 35mm sized? John --- Sylwester Pietrzyk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.dpreview.com/news/0409/04091605nikond2x.asp Velly intellesting - they've used CMOS sensor for the first time :-) -- Best Regards Sylwek = John Bailey `:^)
Re: [OT] Nikon bites with 12MPix D2X
Alin Flaider [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sylwester wrote: SP EOS-1Ds has similar noise level to coming from the same SP era EOS-D60 or 10D despite having much bigger pixel pitch. I think they have the same pixel pitch. Yep. The 6-megapixel APS and 11 megapixel full-frame are very close indeed.
