Re: Any wisdom on step-up rings? (and "What polarizer") - Thank you!
Many thanks to everybody who shared their thoughts and pointers on both subjects (polarizers and step-up rings)! I didn't respond to everybody but carefully read all responses. Igor -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Any wisdom on step-up rings?
John wrote: A lot of people don't understand the difference between CHEAP! and Inexpensive. I *never* buy CHEAP!; but I will always consider Inexpensive. If you have to spend twice as much to get something that's going to last 3 times longer, you've still saved money because you won't have to pay for it again and again. It's the Sam Vimes theory of boots. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com (postbox on min4est) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Any wisdom on step-up rings?
A lot of people don't understand the difference between CHEAP! and Inexpensive. I *never* buy CHEAP!; but I will always consider Inexpensive. If you have to spend twice as much to get something that's going to last 3 times longer, you've still saved money because you won't have to pay for it again and again. -- Science - Questions we may never find answers for. Religion - Answers we must never question. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Any wisdom on step-up rings?
Hi Bipin, First, let me tell you that you are wrong in your quick judgement. And the very fact that this thread exists is the indication of that. In any case, I thought you were wise not to be this condescending. But because this thread is not about me, I will leave it at that, writing off your personal comments to an awkward joke attempt. Second, let me quote two proverbs: I'm not rich to buy cheap things! The greedy pays twice. Now, back to the topic, - it is smart to look for alternatives and bargains, and there is nothing wrong with $1-2 pieces _if_ they work properly. But it would be stupid to save some $10-20 _IF_ that might prevent me from taking a picture with a $1K lens because I couldn't unscrew that ring while taking that proverbial priceless shot, or even risk damaging that lens. And _IF_ saving $60 on a CP filter would degrade the picture quality that is otherwise achievable with the three premium quality lenses totalling over $2K (which I already have), that makes money spent on these lenses not worth their value. Those big IF's are worth researching before the purchase, because I don't want to _waste_ my money. As for the filter wrenches, - one can buy dedicated ones for $6: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/807009-REG/Sensei_FW6277_62_77mm_Filter_Wrench_Set.html http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0095PQPHI/ Igor Bipin Gupta Wed, 22 Jul 2015 10:06:08 -0700 wrote: Igor, Igor the terrible big buck thinker & spender! Afraid of getting the step up / down ring stuck? ... Bipin Gupta Wed, 22 Jul 2015 09:28:26 -0700 wrote: Igor the Mr. Loaded with Money. You think just like my Dad - Shoes - Bata, Glasses - Bausch & Lomb, Cars - Mercedes Benz, Radio or Music System - Philips, Cameras - Leica, and so on - every thing expensive and thus the finest money can buy. ... -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Any wisdom on step-up rings?
> Any wisdom on step-up rings? Certainly. (With apologies to Oscar Wilde), the only thing worse than having step-up rings is NOT having step-up rings. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Any wisdom on step-up rings?
Appropriately sized rubber bands work well when wrapped around the outer diameter giving greater grip and friction. I've also used silicon spray, sparingly on the ring/filter threads to aid install/removal. Kenneth Waller http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller - Original Message - From: "Bipin Gupta" Subject: Any wisdom on step-up rings? Igor, Igor the terrible big buck thinker & spender! Afraid of getting the step up / down ring stuck? Here is a kitchen contraption I bought for less than $ 4. Great for opening stuck filters without damaging lenses and filters. Actually it is a bottle cap opener. https://www.dropbox.com/sh/vlj0cifubbw7p4t/AADHHZjNfjQBsnlPhJ16Oyh6a?dl=0 Now go buy that $ 1 ring from evil bay. They were so cheap that I bought some 20 of them in various combos and popular sizes. Never got one stuck so far. Try the lead pencil trick I mentioned before using them. Regards. Bipin. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Any wisdom on step-up rings?
Igor, Igor the terrible big buck thinker & spender! Afraid of getting the step up / down ring stuck? Here is a kitchen contraption I bought for less than $ 4. Great for opening stuck filters without damaging lenses and filters. Actually it is a bottle cap opener. https://www.dropbox.com/sh/vlj0cifubbw7p4t/AADHHZjNfjQBsnlPhJ16Oyh6a?dl=0 Now go buy that $ 1 ring from evil bay. They were so cheap that I bought some 20 of them in various combos and popular sizes. Never got one stuck so far. Try the lead pencil trick I mentioned before using them. Regards. Bipin. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Any wisdom on step-up rings?
Igor PDML-StR wrote: How is that story related to photography? I just realized that at least as a temporary step, I can just buy a step-up ring and use the 77mm CP on my 67mm lenses. So, the question is: Any recommendations for the step-up rings? I see Goja step-up rings sold for about $6 on Amazon, with a bunch of positive reviews, Sensei on B&H for the same $6, while B+W on B&H is $18. Both are aluminum. A brass one from Sensei is $37, Heliopan - $47.50. Is there any reason to spend 3-times as much on B+W aluminum ring? Yet another question, how much of binding comes from aluminum rings? Is it worth spending 6-times as much on a brass one? I ended up buying myself a set of step up rings for not a lot of money and that gives me a lot more freedom in what filters I can mount on which lenses. On my FA-31 I actually use step down rings as a sun shade because the horrific permanently mounted one doesn't actually do any good on APS. That also means that I can use 49mm filters on my FA 31 Igor -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com (postbox on min4est) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Any wisdom on step-up rings?
Igor the Mr. Loaded with Money. You think just like my Dad - Shoes - Bata, Glasses - Bausch & Lomb, Cars - Mercedes Benz, Radio or Music System - Philips, Cameras - Leica, and so on - every thing expensive and thus the finest money can buy. Till I changed all that and bought myself a $ 1 step up / down ring from China with shipping. Evil Bay again Sir. Why don't you try one and see if it works with your lenses & filters. It did work well for me. And if it does not I promise to reimburse $ 2. Regards. Bipin PS: Rub an HB pencil lead on the filter threads - both the male and female sides - before mounting it, if you are afraid of binding and difficulty in removing. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Any wisdom on step-up rings?
Interesting about the cat door. Did Schrodinger have a cat door? Or could his cat could be simultaneously inside and out? Regarding step up rings: I've always used the inexpensive ones. They sometime stick (especially if left on a long time) but eventually they will come off. I tend to use step down rings frequently for reverse mounting lenses and one that are close in diameter (e.g. a 52 to 49mm step down) can be a real pain to remove, but patience usually prevails. Mark On 7/21/2015 5:50 PM, Igor PDML-StR wrote: [Lyrical digression] (albeit on the topic of CATs) There is a legend attributing the invention of a cat flap door to Isaac Newton (the physicist famous for formulating the foundations of mechanics and gravitation), who was annoyed by the cat asking outside and asked a carpenter to make one in his door. There is an extension of that that says that Newton asked to make two doors: a large one for the mother cat, and a small one for the kittens. (See, e.g.: http://science.howstuffworks.com/innovation/famous-inventors/5-isaac-newton-inventions2.htm ) [/Digression] How is that story related to photography? I just realized that at least as a temporary step, I can just buy a step-up ring and use the 77mm CP on my 67mm lenses. So, the question is: Any recommendations for the step-up rings? I see Goja step-up rings sold for about $6 on Amazon, with a bunch of positive reviews, Sensei on B&H for the same $6, while B+W on B&H is $18. Both are aluminum. A brass one from Sensei is $37, Heliopan - $47.50. Is there any reason to spend 3-times as much on B+W aluminum ring? Yet another question, how much of binding comes from aluminum rings? Is it worth spending 6-times as much on a brass one? Igor --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Any wisdom on step-up rings?
Yeah, I can identify with THAT problem too ann On 7/21/2015 11:19 PM, Igor PDML-StR wrote: Ann, My concern is quite the opposite: I am not afraid to loose it, but rather to have if stuck on the lens or filter forever. :-) But yes, indeed, I was leaning toward buying the cheap one with good reviews, but then I read a couple of horror stories: http://www.amazon.com/review/R27V00ILBP08CY and in the middle of this page: http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/forums/thread40941.htm And I became concerned, since I've already had problems separating my polarizer from the lenses before, and at 77mm you usually get more binding then at smaller sizes. So, I am thinking if I want to risk it... Or, maybe I should spend some $6 to buy filter wrench at the same time?... Igor ann sanfedele Tue, 21 Jul 2015 16:55:49 -0700 wrote: Get the cheapie - then when you lose it , it won't cost too much to replace... As to other sage step advice, better to put the 77 filter on the lens with the 67 thread than the reverse- but I'll wager that occured to you . ann -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Any wisdom on step-up rings?
The way to avoid that is brass, (yea, right try to find brass anything these days), or very high quality black anodized. Actually I don't have either. The step up step down rings I have are almost as old as I am, and made of enameled steel, I've never had them seize but then I use them so seldom that I have no idea where they currently reside. I suppose they might if the enamel wore off to any extent, but I don't use them that often. On 7/21/2015 11:19 PM, Igor PDML-StR wrote: Ann, My concern is quite the opposite: I am not afraid to loose it, but rather to have if stuck on the lens or filter forever. :-) But yes, indeed, I was leaning toward buying the cheap one with good reviews, but then I read a couple of horror stories: http://www.amazon.com/review/R27V00ILBP08CY and in the middle of this page: http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/forums/thread40941.htm And I became concerned, since I've already had problems separating my polarizer from the lenses before, and at 77mm you usually get more binding then at smaller sizes. So, I am thinking if I want to risk it... Or, maybe I should spend some $6 to buy filter wrench at the same time?... Igor ann sanfedele Tue, 21 Jul 2015 16:55:49 -0700 wrote: Get the cheapie - then when you lose it , it won't cost too much to replace... As to other sage step advice, better to put the 77 filter on the lens with the 67 thread than the reverse- but I'll wager that occured to you . ann -- I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying. -- Woody Allen -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Any wisdom on step-up rings?
Igor, I used an Al one (86/58) to fit a large hood onto an FA 100-300. Quite strong enough, well made & very cheap. Alan C -Original Message- From: Igor PDML-StR Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 11:50 PM To: PDML@pdml.net Subject: Any wisdom on step-up rings? [Lyrical digression] (albeit on the topic of CATs) There is a legend attributing the invention of a cat flap door to Isaac Newton (the physicist famous for formulating the foundations of mechanics and gravitation), who was annoyed by the cat asking outside and asked a carpenter to make one in his door. There is an extension of that that says that Newton asked to make two doors: a large one for the mother cat, and a small one for the kittens. (See, e.g.: http://science.howstuffworks.com/innovation/famous-inventors/5-isaac-newton-inventions2.htm ) [/Digression] How is that story related to photography? I just realized that at least as a temporary step, I can just buy a step-up ring and use the 77mm CP on my 67mm lenses. So, the question is: Any recommendations for the step-up rings? I see Goja step-up rings sold for about $6 on Amazon, with a bunch of positive reviews, Sensei on B&H for the same $6, while B+W on B&H is $18. Both are aluminum. A brass one from Sensei is $37, Heliopan - $47.50. Is there any reason to spend 3-times as much on B+W aluminum ring? Yet another question, how much of binding comes from aluminum rings? Is it worth spending 6-times as much on a brass one? Igor -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Any wisdom on step-up rings?
John, Thanks for the link, - I hadn't seen that one. I just found yet a cheaper one ($1.59) on eBay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/151727901240 :-) The one by "Goya" seems to be very similar (probably from the same manufacturer in China, but it's eligible for Prime, which means quick free shipping: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00443RRVY Igor John Tue, 21 Jul 2015 19:58:58 -0700 wrote: I have a 58mm Vivitar Polarizing filter semi-permanently mounted to a 52mm->58mm NO-NAME step up ring for my "smc PENTAX-A 1:2.8 24mm". I could detach the filter from the step-up ring if I'd only remember to do so whenever I next run across my filter wrench set ... except that then I probably wouldn't be able to find the step-up ring when I needed to mount the filter. I put them together back before there were "thin" Polarizers for wide angle lenses & 58mm was the smallest Polarizer that didn't vignette on that lens. Amazon has "niceeshop(TM) Black High Quality Aluminium Alloy 67mm to 77mm 67-77 mm Step Up Ring Filter Adapter for SLR cameras" for $1.99 & free shipping. http://www.amazon.com/niceeshop-Quality-Aluminium-Adapter-cameras/dp/B00H96IZPK/ref=sr_1_6?s=photo&ie=UTF8&qid=1437532110&sr=1-6&refinements=p_n_feature_four_browse-bin%3A1258881011 http://tinyurl.com/nicee-filter If I needed one & couldn't find it locally that's what I'd go for. Come to think of it, I bought a 67mm->77mm step-up ring to go with a "SMC PENTAX-FA J 1:4(22)-5.6(32) 18-35mm-AL" lens I bought when 28mm didn't give me a wide enough field of view on the *ist-D. I was on R&R leave in Scotland, & I think the chain I bought it from has since gone out of business. As I remember, they did not have a 67mm C-Pl filter in stock, so I bought whatever step-up ring the store brand was at the shop where I bought the lens. I already had the 77mm C-Pl filters for my two Tokina ATX Pro f/2.8 zooms, so the step-up ring was just the ticket. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Any wisdom on step-up rings?
Is there any reason to spend 3-times as much on B+W aluminum ring? I believe brass will be less suseptible to sticking on the lens. I've never met an aluminum ring I couldn't eventually remove. Kenneth Waller http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller - Original Message - From: "Igor PDML-StR" Subject: Any wisdom on step-up rings? [Lyrical digression] (albeit on the topic of CATs) There is a legend attributing the invention of a cat flap door to Isaac Newton (the physicist famous for formulating the foundations of mechanics and gravitation), who was annoyed by the cat asking outside and asked a carpenter to make one in his door. There is an extension of that that says that Newton asked to make two doors: a large one for the mother cat, and a small one for the kittens. (See, e.g.: http://science.howstuffworks.com/innovation/famous-inventors/5-isaac-newton-inventions2.htm ) [/Digression] How is that story related to photography? I just realized that at least as a temporary step, I can just buy a step-up ring and use the 77mm CP on my 67mm lenses. So, the question is: Any recommendations for the step-up rings? I see Goja step-up rings sold for about $6 on Amazon, with a bunch of positive reviews, Sensei on B&H for the same $6, while B+W on B&H is $18. Both are aluminum. A brass one from Sensei is $37, Heliopan - $47.50. Is there any reason to spend 3-times as much on B+W aluminum ring? Yet another question, how much of binding comes from aluminum rings? Is it worth spending 6-times as much on a brass one? Igor -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Any wisdom on step-up rings?
Ann, My concern is quite the opposite: I am not afraid to loose it, but rather to have if stuck on the lens or filter forever. :-) But yes, indeed, I was leaning toward buying the cheap one with good reviews, but then I read a couple of horror stories: http://www.amazon.com/review/R27V00ILBP08CY and in the middle of this page: http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/forums/thread40941.htm And I became concerned, since I've already had problems separating my polarizer from the lenses before, and at 77mm you usually get more binding then at smaller sizes. So, I am thinking if I want to risk it... Or, maybe I should spend some $6 to buy filter wrench at the same time?... Igor ann sanfedele Tue, 21 Jul 2015 16:55:49 -0700 wrote: Get the cheapie - then when you lose it , it won't cost too much to replace... As to other sage step advice, better to put the 77 filter on the lens with the 67 thread than the reverse- but I'll wager that occured to you . ann -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Any wisdom on step-up rings?
I have a 58mm Vivitar Polarizing filter semi-permanently mounted to a 52mm->58mm NO-NAME step up ring for my "smc PENTAX-A 1:2.8 24mm". I could detach the filter from the step-up ring if I'd only remember to do so whenever I next run across my filter wrench set ... except that then I probably wouldn't be able to find the step-up ring when I needed to mount the filter. I put them together back before there were "thin" Polarizers for wide angle lenses & 58mm was the smallest Polarizer that didn't vignette on that lens. Amazon has "niceeshop(TM) Black High Quality Aluminium Alloy 67mm to 77mm 67-77 mm Step Up Ring Filter Adapter for SLR cameras" for $1.99 & free shipping. http://www.amazon.com/niceeshop-Quality-Aluminium-Adapter-cameras/dp/B00H96IZPK/ref=sr_1_6?s=photo&ie=UTF8&qid=1437532110&sr=1-6&refinements=p_n_feature_four_browse-bin%3A1258881011 http://tinyurl.com/nicee-filter If I needed one & couldn't find it locally that's what I'd go for. Come to think of it, I bought a 67mm->77mm step-up ring to go with a "SMC PENTAX-FA J 1:4(22)-5.6(32) 18-35mm-AL" lens I bought when 28mm didn't give me a wide enough field of view on the *ist-D. I was on R&R leave in Scotland, & I think the chain I bought it from has since gone out of business. As I remember, they did not have a 67mm C-Pl filter in stock, so I bought whatever step-up ring the store brand was at the shop where I bought the lens. I already had the 77mm C-Pl filters for my two Tokina ATX Pro f/2.8 zooms, so the step-up ring was just the ticket. On 7/21/2015 5:50 PM, Igor PDML-StR wrote: I just realized that at least as a temporary step, I can just buy a step-up ring and use the 77mm CP on my 67mm lenses. So, the question is: Any recommendations for the step-up rings? I see Goja step-up rings sold for about $6 on Amazon, with a bunch of positive reviews, Sensei on B&H for the same $6, while B+W on B&H is $18. Both are aluminum. A brass one from Sensei is $37, Heliopan - $47.50. Is there any reason to spend 3-times as much on B+W aluminum ring? Yet another question, how much of binding comes from aluminum rings? Is it worth spending 6-times as much on a brass one? Igor -- Science - Questions we may never find answers for. Religion - Answers we must never question. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Any wisdom on step-up rings?
Get the cheapie - then when you lose it , it won't cost too much to replace... As to other sage step advice, better to put the 77 filter on the lens with the 67 thread than the reverse- but I'll wager that occured to you . ann On 7/21/2015 5:50 PM, Igor PDML-StR wrote: [Lyrical digression] (albeit on the topic of CATs) There is a legend attributing the invention of a cat flap door to Isaac Newton (the physicist famous for formulating the foundations of mechanics and gravitation), who was annoyed by the cat asking outside and asked a carpenter to make one in his door. There is an extension of that that says that Newton asked to make two doors: a large one for the mother cat, and a small one for the kittens. (See, e.g.: http://science.howstuffworks.com/innovation/famous-inventors/5-isaac-newton-inventions2.htm ) [/Digression] How is that story related to photography? I just realized that at least as a temporary step, I can just buy a step-up ring and use the 77mm CP on my 67mm lenses. So, the question is: Any recommendations for the step-up rings? I see Goja step-up rings sold for about $6 on Amazon, with a bunch of positive reviews, Sensei on B&H for the same $6, while B+W on B&H is $18. Both are aluminum. A brass one from Sensei is $37, Heliopan - $47.50. Is there any reason to spend 3-times as much on B+W aluminum ring? Yet another question, how much of binding comes from aluminum rings? Is it worth spending 6-times as much on a brass one? Igor -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Any wisdom on step-up rings?
[Lyrical digression] (albeit on the topic of CATs) There is a legend attributing the invention of a cat flap door to Isaac Newton (the physicist famous for formulating the foundations of mechanics and gravitation), who was annoyed by the cat asking outside and asked a carpenter to make one in his door. There is an extension of that that says that Newton asked to make two doors: a large one for the mother cat, and a small one for the kittens. (See, e.g.: http://science.howstuffworks.com/innovation/famous-inventors/5-isaac-newton-inventions2.htm ) [/Digression] How is that story related to photography? I just realized that at least as a temporary step, I can just buy a step-up ring and use the 77mm CP on my 67mm lenses. So, the question is: Any recommendations for the step-up rings? I see Goja step-up rings sold for about $6 on Amazon, with a bunch of positive reviews, Sensei on B&H for the same $6, while B+W on B&H is $18. Both are aluminum. A brass one from Sensei is $37, Heliopan - $47.50. Is there any reason to spend 3-times as much on B+W aluminum ring? Yet another question, how much of binding comes from aluminum rings? Is it worth spending 6-times as much on a brass one? Igor -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
