Re: Did you hear the one about Bob Shell?
Here's a hypothetical question. Definitely hypothetical, my wife's not that kind of girl. Presuming that a person took pornographic photos (not of anything illegal, of course), but never intended to distribute them and always meant to keep them private, is that illegal or immoral? That is, if it's legal to perform certain acts, and thus see them as a participant, is it nevertheless an offence to photograph those acts even for strictly private viewing? I'm not making presumptions about Bob Shell, it just happens to remind me of a circumstance in Australia about 30 years ago, where a celebrity ran foul of the law because he had a private collection of intimate photographs of himself and his wife. regards, Anthony Farr - Original Message - From: Peter Alling [EMAIL PROTECTED] (snip) There is another possibility, if as Greywolf says Shell was producing pornography, real or imagined the local prosecutor may be out to make Roanoke safe for God Fearing people. (earlier message snipped)
Re: Did you hear the one about Bob Shell?
The State cannot legislate morality no matter how it hard they try. Pornography is more in the eye of the beholder than anything. The question of legality, no matter what the justification depends on the jurisdiction. At 08:40 PM 6/16/03 +1000, you wrote: Here's a hypothetical question. Definitely hypothetical, my wife's not that kind of girl. Presuming that a person took pornographic photos (not of anything illegal, of course), but never intended to distribute them and always meant to keep them private, is that illegal or immoral? That is, if it's legal to perform certain acts, and thus see them as a participant, is it nevertheless an offence to photograph those acts even for strictly private viewing? I'm not making presumptions about Bob Shell, it just happens to remind me of a circumstance in Australia about 30 years ago, where a celebrity ran foul of the law because he had a private collection of intimate photographs of himself and his wife. regards, Anthony Farr - Original Message - From: Peter Alling [EMAIL PROTECTED] (snip) There is another possibility, if as Greywolf says Shell was producing pornography, real or imagined the local prosecutor may be out to make Roanoke safe for God Fearing people. (earlier message snipped) To grasp the true meaning of socialism, imagine a world where everything is designed by the post office, even the sleaze. O'Rourke, P.J.
Re: Did you hear the one about Bob Shell?
In VA, if you have sex with a person who is sufficiently incapacitated that is considered rape. We warn male students about this all the time. If you are at a party and a women is really drunk, then don't have sex with her even if she appears to be willing. If a court/jury decides that you took advantage of a sufficiently impaired state, then legally it's rape. I'm not making a moral point here, just a practical one. The difficulty is always that the guy is also usually drunk, but if a male can perform then it's difficult legally to demonstrate impairment. I know I may sound a little cold-hearted about this, but I'm usually trying to protect young people from making stupid mistakes and sometimes you have to scare the hell out of them. I don't really know enough about the Shell case to make any specific comment. Steven Desjardins Department of Chemistry Washington and Lee University Lexington, VA 24450 (540) 458-8873 FAX: (540) 458-8878 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Did you hear the one about Bob Shell?
I doubt that it is as simple as all that. Roanoke is still a small town. You're dealing with a local paper, not the New York Post or Daily News, it is most likely they toned down their report rather than playing up the more sensational aspects of the case to spare the local populaces's sensibilities. In which case you have to read between the lines it seems to me they were hinting that local police were able to piece together a very bizarre scene. There is another possibility, if as Greywolf says Shell was producing pornography, real or imagined the local prosecutor may be out to make Roanoke safe for God Fearing people. At 05:25 PM 6/14/03 -0400, you wrote: Treena wrote: Whether she consented or not, I suspect he will still be charged with negligent homicide or manslaughter. I doubt he intended to kill her, but he'll have a difficult time proving he didn't help her get there. Weird laws. So if X gets a girl in his house, takes her photos, then they have sex, then the girl takes Valium, goes to bed and dies in sleep, X is a criminal ? A strong reason for me to keep photographing flowers ;-) cheers, caveman To grasp the true meaning of socialism, imagine a world where everything is designed by the post office, even the sleaze. O'Rourke, P.J.
Re: Did you hear the one about Bob Shell?
Shell's wife had enough of the whole thing: http://www.roanoke.com/roatimes/news/story150953.html BR
Re: Did you hear the one about Bob Shell?
Oh, I very much doubt that. You'd be surprised at what goes on regularly in small towns, and what the cops find on a regular basis. A LARGE portion of the weirdness in this country is in its small towns, and if I were to describe to you some of the stuff that has gone on in our little town of 2,500 over just the last three or four years, you probably wouldn't believe half of it. I'm sure the locals have known all about him and his exploits over the years - more than even he suspects. There's no hiding anything in a small town. But, you're probably right about the coverage - they're probably sticking very closely to just the known facts. One wrong move in a story right now, and it's a huge potential lawsuit waiting to happen. - Original Message - From: Peter Alling [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 5:06 PM Subject: Re: Did you hear the one about Bob Shell? I doubt that it is as simple as all that. Roanoke is still a small town. You're dealing with a local paper, not the New York Post or Daily News, it is most likely they toned down their report rather than playing up the more sensational aspects of the case to spare the local populaces's sensibilities. In which case you have to read between the lines it seems to me they were hinting that local police were able to piece together a very bizarre scene. There is another possibility, if as Greywolf says Shell was producing pornography, real or imagined the local prosecutor may be out to make Roanoke safe for God Fearing people.
Re: Did you hear the one about Bob Shell?
I live in a small town too, and I understand the weirdness that can lie below the surface. I was only commenting on small town newspapers, (who in my experience gloss over such things), and politics, (I believe that district attorneys are elected in Virginia which makes a very political office even more so). At 05:43 PM 6/15/03 -0500, you wrote: Oh, I very much doubt that. You'd be surprised at what goes on regularly in small towns, and what the cops find on a regular basis. A LARGE portion of the weirdness in this country is in its small towns, and if I were to describe to you some of the stuff that has gone on in our little town of 2,500 over just the last three or four years, you probably wouldn't believe half of it. I'm sure the locals have known all about him and his exploits over the years - more than even he suspects. There's no hiding anything in a small town. But, you're probably right about the coverage - they're probably sticking very closely to just the known facts. One wrong move in a story right now, and it's a huge potential lawsuit waiting to happen. - Original Message - From: Peter Alling [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 5:06 PM Subject: Re: Did you hear the one about Bob Shell? I doubt that it is as simple as all that. Roanoke is still a small town. You're dealing with a local paper, not the New York Post or Daily News, it is most likely they toned down their report rather than playing up the more sensational aspects of the case to spare the local populaces's sensibilities. In which case you have to read between the lines it seems to me they were hinting that local police were able to piece together a very bizarre scene. There is another possibility, if as Greywolf says Shell was producing pornography, real or imagined the local prosecutor may be out to make Roanoke safe for God Fearing people. To grasp the true meaning of socialism, imagine a world where everything is designed by the post office, even the sleaze. O'Rourke, P.J.
Re: Did you hear the one about Bob Shell?
As someone who grew up in Roanoke and still visits quite often... It's not what you would normally picture as a small town. The city of Roanoke has a population of ~90,000 and the metropolitan area brings it well over 100,000. Since Radford University and Virginia Tech are the largest universities in the area, they get considerable play in the Roanoke Times/World News. However, like most newspapers, they will sensationalize news items if it will benefit circulation. Bill - Original Message - From: Treena [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 6:43 PM Subject: Re: Did you hear the one about Bob Shell? Oh, I very much doubt that. You'd be surprised at what goes on regularly in small towns, and what the cops find on a regular basis. A LARGE portion of the weirdness in this country is in its small towns, and if I were to describe to you some of the stuff that has gone on in our little town of 2,500 over just the last three or four years, you probably wouldn't believe half of it. I'm sure the locals have known all about him and his exploits over the years - more than even he suspects. There's no hiding anything in a small town. But, you're probably right about the coverage - they're probably sticking very closely to just the known facts. One wrong move in a story right now, and it's a huge potential lawsuit waiting to happen. - Original Message - From: Peter Alling [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 5:06 PM Subject: Re: Did you hear the one about Bob Shell? I doubt that it is as simple as all that. Roanoke is still a small town. You're dealing with a local paper, not the New York Post or Daily News, it is most likely they toned down their report rather than playing up the more sensational aspects of the case to spare the local populaces's sensibilities. In which case you have to read between the lines it seems to me they were hinting that local police were able to piece together a very bizarre scene. There is another possibility, if as Greywolf says Shell was producing pornography, real or imagined the local prosecutor may be out to make Roanoke safe for God Fearing people.
RE: Did you hear the one about Bob Shell?
Shit, you guys think 90,000 is a small town. I live in a town of 2,500 and think it's big enough (admittedly Melbourne is only 60 kilometres away and has 3~4 million). The best part about my town is that nothing ever happens, and I mean nothing Cheers Shaun Canning Cultural Heritage Services High Street, Broadford, Vic, 3658 Mob: 0414-967 644 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.heritageservices.com.au -Original Message- From: Bill Owens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, 16 June 2003 9:05 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Did you hear the one about Bob Shell? As someone who grew up in Roanoke and still visits quite often... It's not what you would normally picture as a small town. The city of Roanoke has a population of ~90,000 and the metropolitan area brings it well over 100,000. Since Radford University and Virginia Tech are the largest universities in the area, they get considerable play in the Roanoke Times/World News. However, like most newspapers, they will sensationalize news items if it will benefit circulation. Bill - Original Message - From: Treena [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 6:43 PM Subject: Re: Did you hear the one about Bob Shell? Oh, I very much doubt that. You'd be surprised at what goes on regularly in small towns, and what the cops find on a regular basis. A LARGE portion of the weirdness in this country is in its small towns, and if I were to describe to you some of the stuff that has gone on in our little town of 2,500 over just the last three or four years, you probably wouldn't believe half of it. I'm sure the locals have known all about him and his exploits over the years - more than even he suspects. There's no hiding anything in a small town. But, you're probably right about the coverage - they're probably sticking very closely to just the known facts. One wrong move in a story right now, and it's a huge potential lawsuit waiting to happen. - Original Message - From: Peter Alling [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 5:06 PM Subject: Re: Did you hear the one about Bob Shell? I doubt that it is as simple as all that. Roanoke is still a small town. You're dealing with a local paper, not the New York Post or Daily News, it is most likely they toned down their report rather than playing up the more sensational aspects of the case to spare the local populaces's sensibilities. In which case you have to read between the lines it seems to me they were hinting that local police were able to piece together a very bizarre scene. There is another possibility, if as Greywolf says Shell was producing pornography, real or imagined the local prosecutor may be out to make Roanoke safe for God Fearing people. --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.487 / Virus Database: 286 - Release Date: 1/06/2003 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.487 / Virus Database: 286 - Release Date: 1/06/2003
RE: Did you hear the one about Bob Shell?
Well, more properly the town I live in used to be a small town, about 20 years ago we had a year round population of about 3000, now it's about 20,000. It's still got a small town mentality. At 09:30 AM 6/16/03 +1000, you wrote: Shit, you guys think 90,000 is a small town. I live in a town of 2,500 and think it's big enough (admittedly Melbourne is only 60 kilometres away and has 3~4 million). The best part about my town is that nothing ever happens, and I mean nothing Cheers Shaun Canning Cultural Heritage Services High Street, Broadford, Vic, 3658 Mob: 0414-967 644 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.heritageservices.com.au -Original Message- From: Bill Owens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, 16 June 2003 9:05 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Did you hear the one about Bob Shell? As someone who grew up in Roanoke and still visits quite often... It's not what you would normally picture as a small town. The city of Roanoke has a population of ~90,000 and the metropolitan area brings it well over 100,000. Since Radford University and Virginia Tech are the largest universities in the area, they get considerable play in the Roanoke Times/World News. However, like most newspapers, they will sensationalize news items if it will benefit circulation. Bill - Original Message - From: Treena [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 6:43 PM Subject: Re: Did you hear the one about Bob Shell? Oh, I very much doubt that. You'd be surprised at what goes on regularly in small towns, and what the cops find on a regular basis. A LARGE portion of the weirdness in this country is in its small towns, and if I were to describe to you some of the stuff that has gone on in our little town of 2,500 over just the last three or four years, you probably wouldn't believe half of it. I'm sure the locals have known all about him and his exploits over the years - more than even he suspects. There's no hiding anything in a small town. But, you're probably right about the coverage - they're probably sticking very closely to just the known facts. One wrong move in a story right now, and it's a huge potential lawsuit waiting to happen. - Original Message - From: Peter Alling [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 5:06 PM Subject: Re: Did you hear the one about Bob Shell? I doubt that it is as simple as all that. Roanoke is still a small town. You're dealing with a local paper, not the New York Post or Daily News, it is most likely they toned down their report rather than playing up the more sensational aspects of the case to spare the local populaces's sensibilities. In which case you have to read between the lines it seems to me they were hinting that local police were able to piece together a very bizarre scene. There is another possibility, if as Greywolf says Shell was producing pornography, real or imagined the local prosecutor may be out to make Roanoke safe for God Fearing people. --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.487 / Virus Database: 286 - Release Date: 1/06/2003 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.487 / Virus Database: 286 - Release Date: 1/06/2003 To grasp the true meaning of socialism, imagine a world where everything is designed by the post office, even the sleaze. O'Rourke, P.J.
Re: Did you hear the one about Bob Shell?
This reminds me of a story I heard recently. It goes like this: A girl goes to the police station and reports that she was raped. The desk sergeant asks when it happened. She says, Two weeks ago. The desk sergeant asks, When did you realize that you had been violated? She says, When the check bounced. It seems a bit outrageous but, in some places, consensual sex can turn into rape if the woman (not the man) decides she didn't want to do it, even days after she consented. Bob Shell should not have to prove that he didn't help her get there. The state needs to prove that he did, beyond the shadow of doubt. Len --- From: Caveman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Did you hear the one about Bob Shell? Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 17:25:01 -0400 Weird laws. So if X gets a girl in his house, takes her photos, then they have sex, then the girl takes Valium, goes to bed and dies in sleep, X is a criminal ? A strong reason for me to keep photographing flowers ;-) cheers, caveman _ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
Re: Did you hear the one about Bob Shell?
My Dad always said Roanoke was too big to be a small town and too small to be a big town. Bill Well, more properly the town I live in used to be a small town, about 20 years ago we had a year round population of about 3000, now it's about 20,000. It's still got a small town mentality. At 09:30 AM 6/16/03 +1000, you wrote: Shit, you guys think 90,000 is a small town. I live in a town of 2,500 and think it's big enough (admittedly Melbourne is only 60 kilometres away and has 3~4 million). The best part about my town is that nothing ever happens, and I mean nothing Cheers Shaun Canning Cultural Heritage Services High Street, Broadford, Vic, 3658 Mob: 0414-967 644 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.heritageservices.com.au
Re: Did you hear the one about Bob Shell?
And to think people have been comparing me to Bob shell, K __ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca
Re: Did you hear the one about Bob Shell?
Well, Leonard, You've hit the nail on the head. He's innocent until proven guilty. And the State has to prove it's case against him beyond a reasonable doubt (not beyond a shadow of a doubt - commone mistake g). Hard to know what the guy did or didn't do, or what the girl did or didn't agree to, from a brief newspaper story. As for the issue of the woman's consent, I actually carry around consent forms with me, so that I can get any partner to sign a written consent ahead of time, just in the case of such little problems. Been carrying them around for about 5 years now. Haven't had the opportunity to use one yet... vbg ciao, frank Leonard Paris wrote: This reminds me of a story I heard recently. It goes like this: A girl goes to the police station and reports that she was raped. The desk sergeant asks when it happened. She says, Two weeks ago. The desk sergeant asks, When did you realize that you had been violated? She says, When the check bounced. It seems a bit outrageous but, in some places, consensual sex can turn into rape if the woman (not the man) decides she didn't want to do it, even days after she consented. Bob Shell should not have to prove that he didn't help her get there. The state needs to prove that he did, beyond the shadow of doubt. Len --- -- What a senseless waste of human life -The Customer in Monty Python's Cheese Shop sketch
Re: Did you hear the one about Bob Shell?
Biting my tongue, biting my tongue, biting my tongue... vbg -frank Brendan wrote: And to think people have been comparing me to Bob shell, K __ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca -- What a senseless waste of human life -The Customer in Monty Python's Cheese Shop sketch
Re: Did you hear the one about Bob Shell?
Fank be nice :D --- frank theriault [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Biting my tongue, biting my tongue, biting my tongue... vbg -frank Brendan wrote: And to think people have been comparing me to Bob shell, K __ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca -- What a senseless waste of human life -The Customer in Monty Python's Cheese Shop sketch __ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca
Re: Did you hear the one about Bob Shell?
Naah, listen to good old Caveman: you have to get married first. This is the only true way to get a divorce. (And that's why wimin are so insistent about it.) Then get a studio and do nudes. Lots of them, including fetish, bondage and the whole dark side. Get published. From this moment wife will be able to get a divorce any time she wants. Then spend the rest of your life working sweating hard to pay her all the fancy dresses, shoes, jewelry, new cars and everything, so you can delay the divorce. cheers, caveman Brendan wrote: And to think people have been comparing me to Bob shell, K __ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca
Re: Did you hear the one about Bob Shell?
So that's why you work in an underground bunker, completely impervious to nuclear (or as GW would say, nuk-u-lar) attack? So your signifcant other won't know what evil lurks in your mind? vbg cheers, frank Caveman wrote: Naah, listen to good old Caveman: you have to get married first. This is the only true way to get a divorce. (And that's why wimin are so insistent about it.) Then get a studio and do nudes. Lots of them, including fetish, bondage and the whole dark side. Get published. From this moment wife will be able to get a divorce any time she wants. Then spend the rest of your life working sweating hard to pay her all the fancy dresses, shoes, jewelry, new cars and everything, so you can delay the divorce. cheers, caveman Brendan wrote: And to think people have been comparing me to Bob shell, K __ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca -- What a senseless waste of human life -The Customer in Monty Python's Cheese Shop sketch
Re: Did you hear the one about Bob Shell?
The circumstances of her death will weigh heavily against him. Remember there is a death involved here. There is no question of the girl agreeing or not, she's dead that is not an option of consent, not in any jurisdiction I'm aware of. At 08:40 PM 6/15/03 -0400, you wrote: Well, Leonard, You've hit the nail on the head. He's innocent until proven guilty. And the State has to prove it's case against him beyond a reasonable doubt (not beyond a shadow of a doubt - commone mistake g). Hard to know what the guy did or didn't do, or what the girl did or didn't agree to, from a brief newspaper story. As for the issue of the woman's consent, I actually carry around consent forms with me, so that I can get any partner to sign a written consent ahead of time, just in the case of such little problems. Been carrying them around for about 5 years now. Haven't had the opportunity to use one yet... vbg ciao, frank Leonard Paris wrote: This reminds me of a story I heard recently. It goes like this: A girl goes to the police station and reports that she was raped. The desk sergeant asks when it happened. She says, Two weeks ago. The desk sergeant asks, When did you realize that you had been violated? She says, When the check bounced. It seems a bit outrageous but, in some places, consensual sex can turn into rape if the woman (not the man) decides she didn't want to do it, even days after she consented. Bob Shell should not have to prove that he didn't help her get there. The state needs to prove that he did, beyond the shadow of doubt. Len --- -- What a senseless waste of human life -The Customer in Monty Python's Cheese Shop sketch To grasp the true meaning of socialism, imagine a world where everything is designed by the post office, even the sleaze. O'Rourke, P.J.
Re: Did you hear the one about Bob Shell?
frank theriault wrote: Hard to know what the guy did or didn't do, or what the girl did or didn't agree to, Strange: a tape recorded with a porn movie constitues evidence (pornography found on premises), while one with a record of what actually happened in the room can't be used as evidence in court. As for the issue of the woman's consent, I actually carry around consent forms with me, so that I can get any partner to sign a written consent ahead of time, just in the case of such little problems. Been carrying them around for about 5 years now. Haven't had the opportunity to use one yet... vbg Don't bother. Just ask for a receipt or pay by INTERAC. cheers, caveman ;-)
Re: Did you hear the one about Bob Shell?
That was clearly an improper instruction, and if appealed, would likely have resulted in a new trial. The fact that the Crown didn't appeal just says that they didn't give a s**t either... -frank William Robb wrote: We had a case here a few years back where a couple of rich white kids whacked an Aboriginal hooker for fun. At the trial, the jury was instructed by the judge to take into account that the girl was a prostitute, and had agreed to engage in activities with the two morons before deciding if they were guilty of murder or manslaughter. They were found guilty of manslaughter, and both were back on the street in less than five years. William Robb -- What a senseless waste of human life -The Customer in Monty Python's Cheese Shop sketch
Re: Did you hear the one about Bob Shell?
frank theriault wrote: I didn't mix sex into it at all, the police did. AFAIK, he hasn't been charged with murder yet, only with sodomy (which shouldn't be a criminal charge, imho), and with sexual penetration with an object (which shouldn't be a criminal charge, either). Huh. So using a suppository might be considered a criminal offence ? Sodomy through sexual penetration with an object ? How do the proctologists get away with their stuff ? Frank, are these laws also valid in Canada or are they US only ? I was using the word sordid tongue-in-cheek. I feel relieved. For a moment I suspected you of being the grumpy old man type ;-) BTW, I don't even know that drug overdose is being touted as the cause of death. All I've read is that we have a dead girl, who had drugs in her system, the police have found drug paraphenalia at his place (they didn't even say if it was his), and they found pornography at his place. I did a quick mental sanity check. If police comes now into my cave, they can find all of the above, except a dead body. Aspirin is a drug and can also kill if you take too many pills, some jpegs on the hard drive and you're all set up. Nice job. cheers, caveman
Re: Did you hear the one about Bob Shell?
Who the hell am I kidding? Any reference to my sex life must be presented in the past tense. vbg -frank I rather optimistically wrote: snipNo one here knows anything about my sexual preferences (and it's gonna stay that way!)snip -- What a senseless waste of human life -The Customer in Monty Python's Cheese Shop sketch
Re: Did you hear the one about Bob Shell?
I wouldn't say this can't happen here but it shouldn't. At 08:03 PM 6/15/03 -0600, you wrote: - Original Message - From: Peter Alling Subject: Re: Did you hear the one about Bob Shell? The circumstances of her death will weigh heavily against him. Remember there is a death involved here. There is no question of the girl agreeing or not, she's dead that is not an option of consent, not in any jurisdiction I'm aware of. We had a case here a few years back where a couple of rich white kids whacked an Aboriginal hooker for fun. At the trial, the jury was instructed by the judge to take into account that the girl was a prostitute, and had agreed to engage in activities with the two morons before deciding if they were guilty of murder or manslaughter. They were found guilty of manslaughter, and both were back on the street in less than five years. William Robb To grasp the true meaning of socialism, imagine a world where everything is designed by the post office, even the sleaze. O'Rourke, P.J.
Re: Did you hear the one about Bob Shell?
I think they'd need a bit more than you've described unless the subjects in the jpegs can be construed as being under age. You might be in trouble then US or Canada. At 10:19 PM 6/15/03 -0400, you wrote: frank theriault wrote: I didn't mix sex into it at all, the police did. AFAIK, he hasn't been charged with murder yet, only with sodomy (which shouldn't be a criminal charge, imho), and with sexual penetration with an object (which shouldn't be a criminal charge, either). Huh. So using a suppository might be considered a criminal offence ? Sodomy through sexual penetration with an object ? How do the proctologists get away with their stuff ? Frank, are these laws also valid in Canada or are they US only ? I was using the word sordid tongue-in-cheek. I feel relieved. For a moment I suspected you of being the grumpy old man type ;-) BTW, I don't even know that drug overdose is being touted as the cause of death. All I've read is that we have a dead girl, who had drugs in her system, the police have found drug paraphenalia at his place (they didn't even say if it was his), and they found pornography at his place. I did a quick mental sanity check. If police comes now into my cave, they can find all of the above, except a dead body. Aspirin is a drug and can also kill if you take too many pills, some jpegs on the hard drive and you're all set up. Nice job. cheers, caveman To grasp the true meaning of socialism, imagine a world where everything is designed by the post office, even the sleaze. O'Rourke, P.J.
Re: Did you hear the one about Bob Shell?
--- Caveman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So it can be used as evidence, but only if it's against you. Sounds fair to me. ;-) Oh no what evil thoughts are you thinking now __ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca
Re: Did you hear the one about Bob Shell?
I'm not that cave, I don't even remotely think of messing with such things. I was speaking of rather tame things like a playboy centerfold or some nude pics from usefilm, photosig, photonet. It's so easy to label them as porn. It takes only one grouchy old lady and whoaaa you're a pervert. cheers, caveman Peter Alling wrote: I think they'd need a bit more than you've described unless the subjects in the jpegs can be construed as being under age. You might be in trouble then US or Canada.
Re: Did you hear the one about Bob Shell?
What the police will really be looking at in their investigation is which of the circumstances, or combination of circumstances led to her death. A key issue will be whether he noticed she was in physical distress and tried to do anything about it, time of death vs time the authorities were notified she was deceased. It is entirely possible he could walk out of this with a few minor drug and paraphernalia charges. It looks bad for him now, but it's usually the policy of law enforcment agencies to investigate all unattended deaths or deaths under unusual circumstances as homicides. Doesn't necessarily mean it is. - Original Message - From: Caveman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 9:19 PM Subject: Re: Did you hear the one about Bob Shell? frank theriault wrote: I didn't mix sex into it at all, the police did. AFAIK, he hasn't been charged with murder yet, only with sodomy (which shouldn't be a criminal charge, imho), and with sexual penetration with an object (which shouldn't be a criminal charge, either). Huh. So using a suppository might be considered a criminal offence ? Sodomy through sexual penetration with an object ? How do the proctologists get away with their stuff ? Frank, are these laws also valid in Canada or are they US only ? I was using the word sordid tongue-in-cheek. I feel relieved. For a moment I suspected you of being the grumpy old man type ;-) BTW, I don't even know that drug overdose is being touted as the cause of death. All I've read is that we have a dead girl, who had drugs in her system, the police have found drug paraphenalia at his place (they didn't even say if it was his), and they found pornography at his place. I did a quick mental sanity check. If police comes now into my cave, they can find all of the above, except a dead body. Aspirin is a drug and can also kill if you take too many pills, some jpegs on the hard drive and you're all set up. Nice job. cheers, caveman
Re: Did you hear the one about Bob Shell?
Caveman wrote: frank theriault wrote: (snip,snip) I was using the word sordid tongue-in-cheek. I feel relieved. For a moment I suspected you of being the grumpy old man type ;-) Not what leaps to mind when the phrase tongue-in-cheek comes up in the middle of this discussion g annsan
RE: Did you hear the one about Bob Shell?
I wonder if that was the 'object' Cheers Shaun Canning Cultural Heritage Services High Street, Broadford, Vic, 3658 Mob: 0414-967 644 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.heritageservices.com.au -Original Message- From: Ann Sanfedele [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, 15 June 2003 2:21 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Did you hear the one about Bob Shell? Caveman wrote: frank theriault wrote: (snip,snip) I was using the word sordid tongue-in-cheek. I feel relieved. For a moment I suspected you of being the grumpy old man type ;-) Not what leaps to mind when the phrase tongue-in-cheek comes up in the middle of this discussion g annsan --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.487 / Virus Database: 286 - Release Date: 1/06/2003 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.487 / Virus Database: 286 - Release Date: 1/06/2003
Re: Did you hear the one about Bob Shell?
T Rittenhouse wrote: I especially don't like, even the concept of, bondage. There's nothing wrong with the concept. Your objections are probably against some ways of executing it. cheers, caveman
Re: Did you hear the one about Bob Shell?
It was rape, in any case, whether the boy consented or not because of his age. Whether she consented or not, I suspect he will still be charged with negligent homicide or manslaughter. I doubt he intended to kill her, but he'll have a difficult time proving he didn't help her get there. - Original Message - From: Caveman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2003 2:34 PM Subject: Re: Did you hear the one about Bob Shell? Was the boy knowing what he was doing, wanted it and consented to it ? I suspect that the case you mentioned was about rape. Treena wrote: We had a case a couple of years back that sounds similar - two men drugged a 12-year-old boy, then sodomized him. Because of the way he was lying and the large amount of drugs in his system, he died of positional asphyxiation. They were charged with homicide. If she was heavily under the influence and was lying in such a way that she couldn't breathe well, it could definitely happen even though it would be unintentional. - Original Message - From: Caveman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2003 1:47 PM Subject: Re: Did you hear the one about Bob Shell? It takes lawyers to make things complicate. I have two questions that have no clear answer there: - did she die of Valium, of sex or of too many photos of her being taken - did she know what she was doing when taking Valium and was that consensual or against her will. Otherwise anyone should make sure he doesn't receive any guests in his home, or have it arranged as a psycho cell with pillowed walls, and keep the guests in straighjackets so they can't harm themselves. And they still can kill themselves by refusing to breath or something. Bruce Rubenstein wrote: http://www.roanoke.com/roatimes/news/story150854.html BR
Re: Did you hear the one about Bob Shell?
Treena wrote: Whether she consented or not, I suspect he will still be charged with negligent homicide or manslaughter. I doubt he intended to kill her, but he'll have a difficult time proving he didn't help her get there. Weird laws. So if X gets a girl in his house, takes her photos, then they have sex, then the girl takes Valium, goes to bed and dies in sleep, X is a criminal ? A strong reason for me to keep photographing flowers ;-) cheers, caveman
Re: Did you hear the one about Bob Shell?
- Original Message - From: Caveman Subject: Re: Did you hear the one about Bob Shell? Was the boy knowing what he was doing, wanted it and consented to it ? I suspect that the case you mentioned was about rape. Most jurisdictions in North America have a statutory rape law. You and I have had this discussion some time ago, and you seemed baffled by the concept. William Robb
