Re: IMATEST comparison of Pentax Photo Laboratory and Adobe Photoshop CS RAW converter
don't replace the files yet. the first TIFF file is causing a crash in IMATEST and i need to have Norman look at it to see if there is something he can do. i've processed some of the others and will be done in about 15 minutes, but the results aren't good. your first set of conversion settings alter the color considerably and also lose the white patch. it has too little contrast compared to the next darker gray patch. the black is also nowhere near black. highly compressed dynamic range means more noise and less accurate color. Herb... - Original Message - From: Jostein [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2005 3:05 PM Subject: Re: IMATEST comparison of Pentax Photo Laboratory and Adobe Photoshop CS RAW converter doh. I sent a followup some hours ago, but it didn't make it back to me, so here goes again.
Re: IMATEST comparison of Pentax Photo Laboratory and Adobe Photoshop CS RAW converter
Herb, I have opened and resaved the files with Photoshop to use compression on the TIFs. Maybe that's the issue? The first set of conversion settings is as flat as can be, and so will the second set be. The only difference between them is the supplied colour profile from PhaseOne. The colour rendition between them is noticeably different on screen, so I expect there is a difference. However, I don't think either will score well on dynamic range. I will do yet another series with manual adjustments, to compliment the automatically adjusted. Jostein - Original Message - From: Herb Chong [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2005 2:30 PM Subject: Re: IMATEST comparison of Pentax Photo Laboratory and Adobe Photoshop CS RAW converter don't replace the files yet. the first TIFF file is causing a crash in IMATEST and i need to have Norman look at it to see if there is something he can do. i've processed some of the others and will be done in about 15 minutes, but the results aren't good. your first set of conversion settings alter the color considerably and also lose the white patch. it has too little contrast compared to the next darker gray patch. the black is also nowhere near black. highly compressed dynamic range means more noise and less accurate color. Herb... - Original Message - From: Jostein [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2005 3:05 PM Subject: Re: IMATEST comparison of Pentax Photo Laboratory and Adobe Photoshop CS RAW converter doh. I sent a followup some hours ago, but it didn't make it back to me, so here goes again.
Re: IMATEST comparison of Pentax Photo Laboratory and Adobe Photoshop CS RAW converter
IMATEST doesn't load the image if it is compressed. i get a crash with an error message that i have posted to IMATEST support. Herb - Original Message - From: Jostein [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2005 9:11 AM Subject: Re: IMATEST comparison of Pentax Photo Laboratory and Adobe Photoshop CS RAW converter Herb, I have opened and resaved the files with Photoshop to use compression on the TIFs. Maybe that's the issue? The first set of conversion settings is as flat as can be, and so will the second set be. The only difference between them is the supplied colour profile from PhaseOne. The colour rendition between them is noticeably different on screen, so I expect there is a difference. However, I don't think either will score well on dynamic range. I will do yet another series with manual adjustments, to compliment the automatically adjusted.
Re: IMATEST comparison of Pentax Photo Laboratory and Adobe Photoshop CS RAW converter
doh. I sent a followup some hours ago, but it didn't make it back to me, so here goes again. There's not enough file space on website to host all the Tiffs at the same time, so I have uploaded the ones in the straight folder. I'll leave them up until Monday, latest, and then replace them with the ones from the straight v2 folder. Since the first send, I have verified that all the uploads came through, and that the link works. :-) Jostein - Original Message - From: Jostein [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2005 4:26 PM Subject: Re: IMATEST comparison of Pentax Photo Laboratory and Adobe Photoshop CS RAW converter Yup. File size increased with roughly 3 Mb per picture also. :-) The PhaseOne C1 RAW has two versions of colour a profile for the *istD. I've uploaded 16 bit TIFFs based on the following settings: straight: Color profile version 1 100% sharpening whitebalance and exposure unaltered. film standard response curve (default of C1) straight v2: Colour profile version 2 100% sharpening whitebalance and exposure unaltered. film standard response curve (default of C1) adjusted v2: Colour profile version 2 250% sharpening automatic setting of whitebalance and exposure, linear response response curve. Link: http://www.oksne.net/imatest/test.html The images will remain until Tuesday 8. February. I will need the space. It's 15 images of 35 megabytes each! The upload is proceeding as I write this. You'll probably get a 404 until it's done. Jostein - Original Message - From: Herb Chong [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2005 2:13 AM Subject: Re: IMATEST comparison of Pentax Photo Laboratory and Adobe Photoshop CS RAW converter OK, they were definitely cut off. try now. Herb... - Original Message - From: Jostein [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Sent: Friday, February 04, 2005 12:19 PM Subject: Re: IMATEST comparison of Pentax Photo Laboratory and Adobe Photoshop CS RAW converter For some reason, the PEF files you uploaded doesn't load correctly in PhaseOne C1 RAW. The lower 15% of the image is just black. Never seen this with my own PEFs... Any ideas?
Re: IMATEST comparison of Pentax Photo Laboratory and Adobe Photoshop CS RAW converter
i'm downloading the set now. they should be done in about half an hour. Herb - Original Message - From: Jostein [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2005 3:05 PM Subject: Re: IMATEST comparison of Pentax Photo Laboratory and Adobe Photoshop CS RAW converter doh. I sent a followup some hours ago, but it didn't make it back to me, so here goes again. There's not enough file space on website to host all the Tiffs at the same time, so I have uploaded the ones in the straight folder. I'll leave them up until Monday, latest, and then replace them with the ones from the straight v2 folder. Since the first send, I have verified that all the uploads came through, and that the link works. :-)
Re: IMATEST comparison of Pentax Photo Laboratory and Adobe Photoshop CS RAW converter
Yup. File size increased with roughly 3 Mb per picture also. :-) The PhaseOne C1 RAW has two versions of colour a profile for the *istD. I've uploaded 16 bit TIFFs based on the following settings: straight: Color profile version 1 100% sharpening whitebalance and exposure unaltered. film standard response curve (default of C1) straight v2: Colour profile version 2 100% sharpening whitebalance and exposure unaltered. film standard response curve (default of C1) adjusted v2: Colour profile version 2 250% sharpening automatic setting of whitebalance and exposure, linear response response curve. Link: http://www.oksne.net/imatest/test.html The images will remain until Tuesday 8. February. I will need the space. It's 15 images of 35 megabytes each! The upload is proceeding as I write this. You'll probably get a 404 until it's done. Jostein - Original Message - From: Herb Chong [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2005 2:13 AM Subject: Re: IMATEST comparison of Pentax Photo Laboratory and Adobe Photoshop CS RAW converter OK, they were definitely cut off. try now. Herb... - Original Message - From: Jostein [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Sent: Friday, February 04, 2005 12:19 PM Subject: Re: IMATEST comparison of Pentax Photo Laboratory and Adobe Photoshop CS RAW converter For some reason, the PEF files you uploaded doesn't load correctly in PhaseOne C1 RAW. The lower 15% of the image is just black. Never seen this with my own PEFs... Any ideas?
Re: IMATEST comparison of Pentax Photo Laboratory and Adobe Photoshop CS RAW converter
Ops. I don't have enough room on my site to host all the files. I will load up the straight images today. The next batch will come when I can remove the first. Jostein - Original Message - From: Jostein [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2005 4:26 PM Subject: Re: IMATEST comparison of Pentax Photo Laboratory and Adobe Photoshop CS RAW converter Yup. File size increased with roughly 3 Mb per picture also. :-) The PhaseOne C1 RAW has two versions of colour a profile for the *istD. I've uploaded 16 bit TIFFs based on the following settings: straight: Color profile version 1 100% sharpening whitebalance and exposure unaltered. film standard response curve (default of C1) straight v2: Colour profile version 2 100% sharpening whitebalance and exposure unaltered. film standard response curve (default of C1) adjusted v2: Colour profile version 2 250% sharpening automatic setting of whitebalance and exposure, linear response response curve. Link: http://www.oksne.net/imatest/test.html The images will remain until Tuesday 8. February. I will need the space. It's 15 images of 35 megabytes each! The upload is proceeding as I write this. You'll probably get a 404 until it's done. Jostein - Original Message - From: Herb Chong [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2005 2:13 AM Subject: Re: IMATEST comparison of Pentax Photo Laboratory and Adobe Photoshop CS RAW converter OK, they were definitely cut off. try now. Herb... - Original Message - From: Jostein [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Sent: Friday, February 04, 2005 12:19 PM Subject: Re: IMATEST comparison of Pentax Photo Laboratory and Adobe Photoshop CS RAW converter For some reason, the PEF files you uploaded doesn't load correctly in PhaseOne C1 RAW. The lower 15% of the image is just black. Never seen this with my own PEFs... Any ideas?
Re: IMATEST comparison of Pentax Photo Laboratory and Adobe Photoshop CS RAW converter
Herb, For some reason, the PEF files you uploaded doesn't load correctly in PhaseOne C1 RAW. The lower 15% of the image is just black. Never seen this with my own PEFs... Any ideas? Jostein - Original Message - From: Herb Chong [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 5:04 AM Subject: IMATEST comparison of Pentax Photo Laboratory and Adobe Photoshop CS RAW converter i've been playing a little bit with IMATEST, Norm Koren's program to analyze color, resolution, noise, and linearity of digital cameras. you can read more about it at www.normankoren.com. i've posted a set of results from doing the color test at various ISO settings and looking at color fidelity, noise, and linearity. you can read about the test and how to interpret the graphs at http://www.imatest.com/docs/colorcheck.html. the details are pretty technical so i posted all of the output graphs instead of trying to explain too much. here are the results http://users.bestweb.net/~hchong/IMATEST_Results/ as output by IMATEST. all of the EXIF details for my six test images are contained in http://users.bestweb.net/~hchong/IMATEST_Results/PentaxPhotoLaboratoryImageData.csv. i shot all of these outdoor with direct sun on the color chart. this reduces contrast by having the darker zones coming out light. all images were defocused a fair bit to remove surface texture noise from the chart itself. i always shoot in RAW. i used IMATEST to do a comparison of the output from Pentax Photo Laboratory TIFF16 to Adobe Photoshop CS RAW TIFF16 from the same set of RAW files. both conversions were done with with automatic white balance and exposure. Photo Laboratory conversion used all default settings. i have the Sharpening slider in Photoshop RAW set to 50 and otherwise everything else was default. white balance was left at As Shot. the conclusions i draw from doing this comparison, which mainly shows the difference between the Pentax and Photoshop converters is that the Pentax converter is significantly worse at color accuracy and noise reduction. the Photo Laboratory conversion rates as very good for color fidelity while Photoshop CS RAW rates as excellent or better. the noise from Photo Laboratory at high ISO shows significant chroma noise while the noise from Photoshop CS RAW is mostly luminance noise. the noise spectrum of both converters is really different too. it suggests that Photo Laboratory does little or no noise reduction and that the noise grows rapidly with underexposure. Photoshop CS RAW seems to do the same types of noise reduction that most digital cameras do. i didn't shoot enough images to be sure, but the sequence of images using ISO 200, 400, 800, 1600, 3200, and 200 was interesting enough to make me want to try something. the second ISO 200 exposure tested worse than the first one. i wonder if i shoot a full burst of 6 images at ISO 200 whether there will be a progression of decreasing quality from the first image to the last. i need to do this test with the Thumbs+ Digicam RAW 1.5 plugin to see how it fares. i wonder how other converters will do. Herb
Re: IMATEST comparison of Pentax Photo Laboratory and Adobe Photoshop CS RAW converter
i have this suspicion that several of them were cut off in the upload. le me try re-uploading. Herb... - Original Message - From: Jostein [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Sent: Friday, February 04, 2005 12:19 PM Subject: Re: IMATEST comparison of Pentax Photo Laboratory and Adobe Photoshop CS RAW converter For some reason, the PEF files you uploaded doesn't load correctly in PhaseOne C1 RAW. The lower 15% of the image is just black. Never seen this with my own PEFs... Any ideas?
Re: IMATEST comparison of Pentax Photo Laboratory and Adobe Photoshop CS RAW converter
OK, they were definitely cut off. try now. Herb... - Original Message - From: Jostein [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Sent: Friday, February 04, 2005 12:19 PM Subject: Re: IMATEST comparison of Pentax Photo Laboratory and Adobe Photoshop CS RAW converter For some reason, the PEF files you uploaded doesn't load correctly in PhaseOne C1 RAW. The lower 15% of the image is just black. Never seen this with my own PEFs... Any ideas?
Re: IMATEST comparison of Pentax Photo Laboratory and Adobe Photoshop CS RAW converter
Herb, thanks for doing that test of yours. I tried Photoshop CS RAW yesterday for the first time on an older raw file of mine and noticed a big difference, especially in noise levels. I think I may end up using CS RAW more than Pentax's converter. It sure seems a lot better, so far. John Celio -- http://www.neovenator.com http://www.newpixel.net AIM: Neopifex Hey, I'm an artist. I can do whatever I want and pretend I'm making a statement.
Re: IMATEST comparison of Pentax Photo Laboratory and Adobe Photoshop CS RAW converter
i've posted the PEF files into the results directory for other people to convert using programs that i don't have. if anyone does this, use your normal settings for your camera and tweak only exposure compensation so that the histogram isn't too cut off for the white patch. convert to TIFF16t at 1:1 so that the images are about 34M each and tell me where to get them so that i can run the IMATEST program against them. high quality JPEGs at 2-4MB per image might be OK too. Herb... - Original Message - From: John Celio [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 4:19 PM Subject: Re: IMATEST comparison of Pentax Photo Laboratory and Adobe Photoshop CS RAW converter Herb, thanks for doing that test of yours. I tried Photoshop CS RAW yesterday for the first time on an older raw file of mine and noticed a big difference, especially in noise levels. I think I may end up using CS RAW more than Pentax's converter. It sure seems a lot better, so far.
IMATEST comparison of Pentax Photo Laboratory and Adobe Photoshop CS RAW converter
i've been playing a little bit with IMATEST, Norm Koren's program to analyze color, resolution, noise, and linearity of digital cameras. you can read more about it at www.normankoren.com. i've posted a set of results from doing the color test at various ISO settings and looking at color fidelity, noise, and linearity. you can read about the test and how to interpret the graphs at http://www.imatest.com/docs/colorcheck.html. the details are pretty technical so i posted all of the output graphs instead of trying to explain too much. here are the results http://users.bestweb.net/~hchong/IMATEST_Results/ as output by IMATEST. all of the EXIF details for my six test images are contained in http://users.bestweb.net/~hchong/IMATEST_Results/PentaxPhotoLaboratoryImageData.csv. i shot all of these outdoor with direct sun on the color chart. this reduces contrast by having the darker zones coming out light. all images were defocused a fair bit to remove surface texture noise from the chart itself. i always shoot in RAW. i used IMATEST to do a comparison of the output from Pentax Photo Laboratory TIFF16 to Adobe Photoshop CS RAW TIFF16 from the same set of RAW files. both conversions were done with with automatic white balance and exposure. Photo Laboratory conversion used all default settings. i have the Sharpening slider in Photoshop RAW set to 50 and otherwise everything else was default. white balance was left at As Shot. the conclusions i draw from doing this comparison, which mainly shows the difference between the Pentax and Photoshop converters is that the Pentax converter is significantly worse at color accuracy and noise reduction. the Photo Laboratory conversion rates as very good for color fidelity while Photoshop CS RAW rates as excellent or better. the noise from Photo Laboratory at high ISO shows significant chroma noise while the noise from Photoshop CS RAW is mostly luminance noise. the noise spectrum of both converters is really different too. it suggests that Photo Laboratory does little or no noise reduction and that the noise grows rapidly with underexposure. Photoshop CS RAW seems to do the same types of noise reduction that most digital cameras do. i didn't shoot enough images to be sure, but the sequence of images using ISO 200, 400, 800, 1600, 3200, and 200 was interesting enough to make me want to try something. the second ISO 200 exposure tested worse than the first one. i wonder if i shoot a full burst of 6 images at ISO 200 whether there will be a progression of decreasing quality from the first image to the last. i need to do this test with the Thumbs+ Digicam RAW 1.5 plugin to see how it fares. i wonder how other converters will do. Herb
Re: IMATEST comparison of Pentax Photo Laboratory and Adobe Photoshop CS RAW converter
conclusion - Thumbs+ Digicam RAW 1.5 is awful, much worse than either of the other two. anyone using some other program that reads *istD RAW files want to try their converter on these files? Herb... - Original Message - From: Herb Chong [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 11:04 PM Subject: IMATEST comparison of Pentax Photo Laboratory and Adobe Photoshop CS RAW converter i need to do this test with the Thumbs+ Digicam RAW 1.5 plugin to see how it fares. i wonder how other converters will do.
