Re: K1 vs 645z

[Mark C]

I've done a lot of pixel shift work with the K1 and have to say that it 
represents an incremental improvement in detail and dynamic range, but 
is not a critical factor. In focus stacks there is a noticeable 
improvement in detail using pixel shift mode, and its visible when pixel 
peeping or when printing at larger sizes. But its not something that 
would make or break an image - I can't imagine a situation where I'd 
look at an image and think that it would not work if  shot in non pixel 
shift mode, even if the pixel shifted image has more detail. It's an 
incremental improvement, but not a game changer.


On 5/21/2017 6:05 PM, Bruce Walker wrote:


I agree that pixel-shift might pretty-much close the gap between the
two bodies for landscape, but it is completely useless for many
styles/subjects of shooting. Like any kind of people or sports. Any
handheld use. In fact anything at all where the subject or camera
might move. :)

And then there's the issue of processing pixel-shifted results. All I
hear lately is folks perplexed about how you post-process
pixel-shifted files. To me all this makes pixel shift a novelty
feature.




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Re: K1 vs 645z

[Rob Studdert]

The HD DFA645 28-45 is a ridiculously good landscape lens, it runs
rings around the 15-30/2.8 Tamron for edge to edge sharpness, flare
resistance and lack of CA.


On 22 May 2017 at 08:05, Bruce Walker  wrote:
> On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 5:02 PM, Zos Xavius  wrote:
>> someone leaked the test results for the 645z from dxomark (yes they
>> tested it) and it came to 100 if I remember correctly. a lot of people
>> think there is a conspiracy, but who knows?
>>
>> that said the K-1 is the better choice in many ways unless you are
>> looking to spend thousands on lenses. The newer zooms are definitely
>> not cheap on the 645Z. Neither is the 90mm and such.
>>
>> With pixel shift the results are pretty close between the two. Close
>> enough to offset the massive difference in cost. Unless medium format
>> is totally your thing, then I could understand. I keep thinking about
>> a used 645D myself.
>
> I agree that pixel-shift might pretty-much close the gap between the
> two bodies for landscape, but it is completely useless for many
> styles/subjects of shooting. Like any kind of people or sports. Any
> handheld use. In fact anything at all where the subject or camera
> might move. :)
>
> And then there's the issue of processing pixel-shifted results. All I
> hear lately is folks perplexed about how you post-process
> pixel-shifted files. To me all this makes pixel shift a novelty
> feature.
>
> --
> -bmw
>
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Gmail, eBay, Skype, Twitter, Facebook, Picasa: distudio

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Re: K1 vs 645z

[Bruce Walker]

On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 5:02 PM, Zos Xavius  wrote:
> someone leaked the test results for the 645z from dxomark (yes they
> tested it) and it came to 100 if I remember correctly. a lot of people
> think there is a conspiracy, but who knows?
>
> that said the K-1 is the better choice in many ways unless you are
> looking to spend thousands on lenses. The newer zooms are definitely
> not cheap on the 645Z. Neither is the 90mm and such.
>
> With pixel shift the results are pretty close between the two. Close
> enough to offset the massive difference in cost. Unless medium format
> is totally your thing, then I could understand. I keep thinking about
> a used 645D myself.

I agree that pixel-shift might pretty-much close the gap between the
two bodies for landscape, but it is completely useless for many
styles/subjects of shooting. Like any kind of people or sports. Any
handheld use. In fact anything at all where the subject or camera
might move. :)

And then there's the issue of processing pixel-shifted results. All I
hear lately is folks perplexed about how you post-process
pixel-shifted files. To me all this makes pixel shift a novelty
feature.

-- 
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Re: K1 vs 645z

[Zos Xavius]

And PS, didn't mean to quote stanley there. that wasn't really a
response to him.

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Re: K1 vs 645z

[Zos Xavius]

someone leaked the test results for the 645z from dxomark (yes they
tested it) and it came to 100 if I remember correctly. a lot of people
think there is a conspiracy, but who knows?

that said the K-1 is the better choice in many ways unless you are
looking to spend thousands on lenses. The newer zooms are definitely
not cheap on the 645Z. Neither is the 90mm and such.

With pixel shift the results are pretty close between the two. Close
enough to offset the massive difference in cost. Unless medium format
is totally your thing, then I could understand. I keep thinking about
a used 645D myself.

On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 4:39 PM, Stanley Halpin
 wrote:
> Last summer in Alaska I carried both the 645Z and the K-1. Both made good 
> photos. Both had lots of shadow detaiI. Each has its advantages and 
> disadvantages, but I don’t think IQ ultimately discriminates between the two. 
> Maybe a slight edge to the 645Z.
>  I am not going to do any sort of technical comparison myself. However, I am 
> quite sure I have a few mountain landscape sequences where I used one camera 
> for a few shots, adjusted composition slightly, did a few more, left the 
> tripod in place, just switched to the other camera, did a few more shots… So 
> I should have some shots done under similar/identical circumstances as far as 
> lighting etc are concerned. Of course the lenses will be different.
> If anybody wants to explore an IQ comparison with those images, I can send 
> you the original DNG files. Do note that they were not shot with such a 
> comparison in mind. E.g., the shots I am thinking of, I likely was using the 
> D FA 24-70 on the K-1 and the FA 150 on the 645Z. If anybody wants to spend 
> time on this I will dig out some sample images and put them in Dropbox with a 
> link posted here.
>
> Stan
>
>
>> On May 21, 2017, at 3:45 PM, Bruce Walker  wrote:
>>
>> The DxOMark folks still haven't released 645Z numbers so other than
>> tons of speculation I've read we don't know if or by how much the
>> 645Z's DR might exceed the K-1 -- or the reverse.
>>
>> I'm no expert so I won't bother speculating. I regularly pull
>> highlights out of over exposure or shadows and blacks out of the murk,
>> as you do with your K-1, so as one guy put it:
>>
>> <<< The DR of the Sony 50MP MF chip - certainly as realized in the
>> 645z - is "adequate".  Adequate for what? Pretty damn near everything.
>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 2:27 PM, Paul Stenquist  wrote:
>>> I agree that the sheer size of the 645z sensor makes it superior to the K-1 
>>> in most regards, but does it have
>>> It's dynamic range? You have to make some serious mistakes to lose 
>>> highlight or shadow detail with the K-1. It is a generation newer than the 
>>> 645z.
>>>
>>> Paul via phone
>>>
 On May 21, 2017, at 2:00 PM, Bruce Walker  wrote:

 Hi Luke; I'm a happy 645z owner. I have had in succession, a K100D
 Super, K20D, K-3 and now the 645Z, a camera which has become my
 preferred carry and handles 97% of what I shoot.

 Using the same kind of logic as "going to get nearly the same results
 with the K1" you can easily convince yourself that the K-3ii is
 sufficient for you. If you can successfully follow that chain down
 then you should consider the K-3ii as it's much less expensive and a
 great deal less unwieldy.

 The 645Z is at Pentax's extreme end of stepwise refinements in optics
 and electronics. If you need the resolution and dynamic range, then
 you will not be disappointed by it. If you don't, then go with the K-1
 or K-3.

 By the way, what makes you say it's not a "true medium format"? It
 uses the same sensor as Phase One and several other medium format
 cameras. If you are referring to the specific physical diagonal film
 measurement versus the sensor, well if that actually bothers then that
 also suggests you don't need it. :)

 I went with the medium format because of its look, and for better
 files for retouching. The difference is unbelievable until you
 actually work with it. Truly eye-opening.


> On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 7:26 AM, Luke Johnson  
> wrote:
> Hello all!
> I lent my dad my *istD and haven't seen it since (think he's enjoying it 
> and hes done A lot for me in my life so more power to him!)
> I'm trying to decide on the K1 or the 645Z.I've always wanted to try 
> medium format (although I know the Z isnt a true medium format.) But if 
> I'm going to get nearly the same results with the K1. Has anyone heard 
> anything about a 645z update/replacement?
> I shoot mainly landscapes and some architectural.
> Any thoughts / guidance appreciated!
> Thanks.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
> --
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> 

Re: K1 vs 645z

[Stanley Halpin]

Last summer in Alaska I carried both the 645Z and the K-1. Both made good 
photos. Both had lots of shadow detaiI. Each has its advantages and 
disadvantages, but I don’t think IQ ultimately discriminates between the two. 
Maybe a slight edge to the 645Z.
 I am not going to do any sort of technical comparison myself. However, I am 
quite sure I have a few mountain landscape sequences where I used one camera 
for a few shots, adjusted composition slightly, did a few more, left the tripod 
in place, just switched to the other camera, did a few more shots… So I should 
have some shots done under similar/identical circumstances as far as lighting 
etc are concerned. Of course the lenses will be different.
If anybody wants to explore an IQ comparison with those images, I can send you 
the original DNG files. Do note that they were not shot with such a comparison 
in mind. E.g., the shots I am thinking of, I likely was using the D FA 24-70 on 
the K-1 and the FA 150 on the 645Z. If anybody wants to spend time on this I 
will dig out some sample images and put them in Dropbox with a link posted here.

Stan 

 
> On May 21, 2017, at 3:45 PM, Bruce Walker  wrote:
> 
> The DxOMark folks still haven't released 645Z numbers so other than
> tons of speculation I've read we don't know if or by how much the
> 645Z's DR might exceed the K-1 -- or the reverse.
> 
> I'm no expert so I won't bother speculating. I regularly pull
> highlights out of over exposure or shadows and blacks out of the murk,
> as you do with your K-1, so as one guy put it:
> 
> <<< The DR of the Sony 50MP MF chip - certainly as realized in the
> 645z - is "adequate".  Adequate for what? Pretty damn near everything.
 
> 
> 
> On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 2:27 PM, Paul Stenquist  wrote:
>> I agree that the sheer size of the 645z sensor makes it superior to the K-1 
>> in most regards, but does it have
>> It's dynamic range? You have to make some serious mistakes to lose highlight 
>> or shadow detail with the K-1. It is a generation newer than the 645z.
>> 
>> Paul via phone
>> 
>>> On May 21, 2017, at 2:00 PM, Bruce Walker  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Luke; I'm a happy 645z owner. I have had in succession, a K100D
>>> Super, K20D, K-3 and now the 645Z, a camera which has become my
>>> preferred carry and handles 97% of what I shoot.
>>> 
>>> Using the same kind of logic as "going to get nearly the same results
>>> with the K1" you can easily convince yourself that the K-3ii is
>>> sufficient for you. If you can successfully follow that chain down
>>> then you should consider the K-3ii as it's much less expensive and a
>>> great deal less unwieldy.
>>> 
>>> The 645Z is at Pentax's extreme end of stepwise refinements in optics
>>> and electronics. If you need the resolution and dynamic range, then
>>> you will not be disappointed by it. If you don't, then go with the K-1
>>> or K-3.
>>> 
>>> By the way, what makes you say it's not a "true medium format"? It
>>> uses the same sensor as Phase One and several other medium format
>>> cameras. If you are referring to the specific physical diagonal film
>>> measurement versus the sensor, well if that actually bothers then that
>>> also suggests you don't need it. :)
>>> 
>>> I went with the medium format because of its look, and for better
>>> files for retouching. The difference is unbelievable until you
>>> actually work with it. Truly eye-opening.
>>> 
>>> 
 On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 7:26 AM, Luke Johnson  
 wrote:
 Hello all!
 I lent my dad my *istD and haven't seen it since (think he's enjoying it 
 and hes done A lot for me in my life so more power to him!)
 I'm trying to decide on the K1 or the 645Z.I've always wanted to try 
 medium format (although I know the Z isnt a true medium format.) But if 
 I'm going to get nearly the same results with the K1. Has anyone heard 
 anything about a 645z update/replacement?
 I shoot mainly landscapes and some architectural.
 Any thoughts / guidance appreciated!
 Thanks.
 
 
 Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
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 PDML@pdml.net
 http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
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 follow the directions.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
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>>> 
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>> 
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Re: K1 vs 645z

[Bruce Walker]

The DxOMark folks still haven't released 645Z numbers so other than
tons of speculation I've read we don't know if or by how much the
645Z's DR might exceed the K-1 -- or the reverse.

I'm no expert so I won't bother speculating. I regularly pull
highlights out of over exposure or shadows and blacks out of the murk,
as you do with your K-1, so as one guy put it:

<<< The DR of the Sony 50MP MF chip - certainly as realized in the
645z - is "adequate".  Adequate for what? Pretty damn near everything.
>>>


On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 2:27 PM, Paul Stenquist  wrote:
> I agree that the sheer size of the 645z sensor makes it superior to the K-1 
> in most regards, but does it have
> It's dynamic range? You have to make some serious mistakes to lose highlight 
> or shadow detail with the K-1. It is a generation newer than the 645z.
>
> Paul via phone
>
>> On May 21, 2017, at 2:00 PM, Bruce Walker  wrote:
>>
>> Hi Luke; I'm a happy 645z owner. I have had in succession, a K100D
>> Super, K20D, K-3 and now the 645Z, a camera which has become my
>> preferred carry and handles 97% of what I shoot.
>>
>> Using the same kind of logic as "going to get nearly the same results
>> with the K1" you can easily convince yourself that the K-3ii is
>> sufficient for you. If you can successfully follow that chain down
>> then you should consider the K-3ii as it's much less expensive and a
>> great deal less unwieldy.
>>
>> The 645Z is at Pentax's extreme end of stepwise refinements in optics
>> and electronics. If you need the resolution and dynamic range, then
>> you will not be disappointed by it. If you don't, then go with the K-1
>> or K-3.
>>
>> By the way, what makes you say it's not a "true medium format"? It
>> uses the same sensor as Phase One and several other medium format
>> cameras. If you are referring to the specific physical diagonal film
>> measurement versus the sensor, well if that actually bothers then that
>> also suggests you don't need it. :)
>>
>> I went with the medium format because of its look, and for better
>> files for retouching. The difference is unbelievable until you
>> actually work with it. Truly eye-opening.
>>
>>
>>> On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 7:26 AM, Luke Johnson  
>>> wrote:
>>> Hello all!
>>> I lent my dad my *istD and haven't seen it since (think he's enjoying it 
>>> and hes done A lot for me in my life so more power to him!)
>>> I'm trying to decide on the K1 or the 645Z.I've always wanted to try medium 
>>> format (although I know the Z isnt a true medium format.) But if I'm going 
>>> to get nearly the same results with the K1. Has anyone heard anything about 
>>> a 645z update/replacement?
>>> I shoot mainly landscapes and some architectural.
>>> Any thoughts / guidance appreciated!
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
>>> --
>>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>>> PDML@pdml.net
>>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and 
>>> follow the directions.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> -bmw
>>
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Re: K1 vs 645z

[Paul Stenquist]

 But does it have better dynamic range...

Paul via phone

> On May 21, 2017, at 2:27 PM, Paul Stenquist  wrote:
> 
> I agree that the sheer size of the 645z sensor makes it superior to the K-1 
> in most regards, but does it have
> It's dynamic range? You have to make some serious mistakes to lose highlight 
> or shadow detail with the K-1. It is a generation newer than the 645z.
> 
> Paul via phone
> 
>> On May 21, 2017, at 2:00 PM, Bruce Walker  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Luke; I'm a happy 645z owner. I have had in succession, a K100D
>> Super, K20D, K-3 and now the 645Z, a camera which has become my
>> preferred carry and handles 97% of what I shoot.
>> 
>> Using the same kind of logic as "going to get nearly the same results
>> with the K1" you can easily convince yourself that the K-3ii is
>> sufficient for you. If you can successfully follow that chain down
>> then you should consider the K-3ii as it's much less expensive and a
>> great deal less unwieldy.
>> 
>> The 645Z is at Pentax's extreme end of stepwise refinements in optics
>> and electronics. If you need the resolution and dynamic range, then
>> you will not be disappointed by it. If you don't, then go with the K-1
>> or K-3.
>> 
>> By the way, what makes you say it's not a "true medium format"? It
>> uses the same sensor as Phase One and several other medium format
>> cameras. If you are referring to the specific physical diagonal film
>> measurement versus the sensor, well if that actually bothers then that
>> also suggests you don't need it. :)
>> 
>> I went with the medium format because of its look, and for better
>> files for retouching. The difference is unbelievable until you
>> actually work with it. Truly eye-opening.
>> 
>> 
>>> On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 7:26 AM, Luke Johnson  
>>> wrote:
>>> Hello all!
>>> I lent my dad my *istD and haven't seen it since (think he's enjoying it 
>>> and hes done A lot for me in my life so more power to him!)
>>> I'm trying to decide on the K1 or the 645Z.I've always wanted to try medium 
>>> format (although I know the Z isnt a true medium format.) But if I'm going 
>>> to get nearly the same results with the K1. Has anyone heard anything about 
>>> a 645z update/replacement?
>>> I shoot mainly landscapes and some architectural.
>>> Any thoughts / guidance appreciated!
>>> Thanks.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
>>> --
>>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>>> PDML@pdml.net
>>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and 
>>> follow the directions.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> -bmw
>> 
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Re: K1 vs 645z

[Paul Stenquist]

I agree that the sheer size of the 645z sensor makes it superior to the K-1 in 
most regards, but does it have
It's dynamic range? You have to make some serious mistakes to lose highlight or 
shadow detail with the K-1. It is a generation newer than the 645z.

Paul via phone

> On May 21, 2017, at 2:00 PM, Bruce Walker  wrote:
> 
> Hi Luke; I'm a happy 645z owner. I have had in succession, a K100D
> Super, K20D, K-3 and now the 645Z, a camera which has become my
> preferred carry and handles 97% of what I shoot.
> 
> Using the same kind of logic as "going to get nearly the same results
> with the K1" you can easily convince yourself that the K-3ii is
> sufficient for you. If you can successfully follow that chain down
> then you should consider the K-3ii as it's much less expensive and a
> great deal less unwieldy.
> 
> The 645Z is at Pentax's extreme end of stepwise refinements in optics
> and electronics. If you need the resolution and dynamic range, then
> you will not be disappointed by it. If you don't, then go with the K-1
> or K-3.
> 
> By the way, what makes you say it's not a "true medium format"? It
> uses the same sensor as Phase One and several other medium format
> cameras. If you are referring to the specific physical diagonal film
> measurement versus the sensor, well if that actually bothers then that
> also suggests you don't need it. :)
> 
> I went with the medium format because of its look, and for better
> files for retouching. The difference is unbelievable until you
> actually work with it. Truly eye-opening.
> 
> 
>> On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 7:26 AM, Luke Johnson  
>> wrote:
>> Hello all!
>> I lent my dad my *istD and haven't seen it since (think he's enjoying it and 
>> hes done A lot for me in my life so more power to him!)
>> I'm trying to decide on the K1 or the 645Z.I've always wanted to try medium 
>> format (although I know the Z isnt a true medium format.) But if I'm going 
>> to get nearly the same results with the K1. Has anyone heard anything about 
>> a 645z update/replacement?
>> I shoot mainly landscapes and some architectural.
>> Any thoughts / guidance appreciated!
>> Thanks.
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
>> --
>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>> PDML@pdml.net
>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and 
>> follow the directions.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> -bmw
> 
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Re: K1 vs 645z

[Bruce Walker]

Hi Luke; I'm a happy 645z owner. I have had in succession, a K100D
Super, K20D, K-3 and now the 645Z, a camera which has become my
preferred carry and handles 97% of what I shoot.

Using the same kind of logic as "going to get nearly the same results
with the K1" you can easily convince yourself that the K-3ii is
sufficient for you. If you can successfully follow that chain down
then you should consider the K-3ii as it's much less expensive and a
great deal less unwieldy.

The 645Z is at Pentax's extreme end of stepwise refinements in optics
and electronics. If you need the resolution and dynamic range, then
you will not be disappointed by it. If you don't, then go with the K-1
or K-3.

By the way, what makes you say it's not a "true medium format"? It
uses the same sensor as Phase One and several other medium format
cameras. If you are referring to the specific physical diagonal film
measurement versus the sensor, well if that actually bothers then that
also suggests you don't need it. :)

I went with the medium format because of its look, and for better
files for retouching. The difference is unbelievable until you
actually work with it. Truly eye-opening.


On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 7:26 AM, Luke Johnson  wrote:
> Hello all!
> I lent my dad my *istD and haven't seen it since (think he's enjoying it and 
> hes done A lot for me in my life so more power to him!)
> I'm trying to decide on the K1 or the 645Z.I've always wanted to try medium 
> format (although I know the Z isnt a true medium format.) But if I'm going to 
> get nearly the same results with the K1. Has anyone heard anything about a 
> 645z update/replacement?
> I shoot mainly landscapes and some architectural.
> Any thoughts / guidance appreciated!
> Thanks.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
> --
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
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Re: K1 vs 645z

[Larry]

Unless you have a real specific need for the 645, I don't think many people 
will get noticeably sharper photo with it. I think that there is a much wider 
range of lenses that will work with the k1 which is smaller, lighter and less 
expensive.
Moving from the ist, I'd almost suggest picking up a used k3ii until the k1 
successor comes out. The boat in performance will blow you away. The k1 has a 
few quirks that I hope they iron out in the next version, though they are less 
of an issue in landscape photography.


On May 21, 2017 4:26:30 AM PDT, Luke Johnson  wrote:
>Hello all!
>I lent my dad my *istD and haven't seen it since (think he's enjoying
>it and hes done A lot for me in my life so more power to him!)
>I'm trying to decide on the K1 or the 645Z.I've always wanted to try
>medium format (although I know the Z isnt a true medium format.) But if
>I'm going to get nearly the same results with the K1. Has anyone heard
>anything about a 645z update/replacement?
>I shoot mainly landscapes and some architectural. 
>Any thoughts / guidance appreciated!
>Thanks.
>
>
>Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
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K1 vs 645z

[Luke Johnson]

Hello all!
I lent my dad my *istD and haven't seen it since (think he's enjoying it and 
hes done A lot for me in my life so more power to him!)
I'm trying to decide on the K1 or the 645Z.I've always wanted to try medium 
format (although I know the Z isnt a true medium format.) But if I'm going to 
get nearly the same results with the K1. Has anyone heard anything about a 645z 
update/replacement?
I shoot mainly landscapes and some architectural. 
Any thoughts / guidance appreciated!
Thanks.


Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
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