Re: "Pro" talk (was Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back.)
Hello, sealing or not - I've always been quite happy with the Pentax way, because the cost of screens mostly has been about 1/2 to 1/3 compared to Nikon. Also, I've done a lot of work with the F4, and I would not say it's easier there to change screens, just different! (Or the other way round: It's not more difficult to change screens on the LX if you are used to it...) If you have to do your shooting at construction sites, at welding pipelines etcyou think twice, which screen you will need and you'll do the change at home. I would avoid changing screens in the field, regardless of being it the Pentax or the Nikon-way. So, why should I pay for a new condenser lens each time I only need a different screen? :-) Thomas whickersworld schrieb: > > mishka wrote: > > > > don't know about f4, but f3 is not sealed, afaik. > > there's a good reason why lx has a lens between the screen > anf the > > finder. i suspect it's a lot more difficult > > to make interchangeable screens f3-style, that would also > keep the > > camera sealed. > > Mishka, > > The F4 has better sealing than the F3, > as you would expect, but it still uses > the exact same system for changing > the focusing screens. > > John
Re: "Pro" talk (was Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back.)
mishka wrote: > > don't know about f4, but f3 is not sealed, afaik. > there's a good reason why lx has a lens between the screen anf the > finder. i suspect it's a lot more difficult > to make interchangeable screens f3-style, that would also keep the > camera sealed. Mishka, The F4 has better sealing than the F3, as you would expect, but it still uses the exact same system for changing the focusing screens. John
Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back
Pål Jensen wrote: > >John wrote: >> >>This so-called "enormous cost" is an illusion put >>about by people who think they cannot afford >>Leica. > > >Illusion? The back alone cost $4500 at a time >when similarly specced digital solution will >likely cost $1000 or less. Pål, Quoting a projected price of $4500 now will make buyers very pleased when it sells for a much lower price. >On thing is the case for expensive >Leica lenses and bodies, another is >the point in buying a Leica branded >CCD at several magnitudes the cost >of competitive products. I profoundly disagree that Leica is expensive. The whole life cost of owning Leica gear is probably the lowest of any camera brand. Of course, applying a consumer-grade mindset to such finely engineered gear does make it *appear* expensive, but Leica owners don't need to change their gear every year and a half. >>That depends what you mean by "better". To suggest >>that the R9 lacks features compared with a Canon EOS >>something-or-other does not happily sit with the same >>person defending the Pentax MZ-S to the death against >>the features and better performance of the Nikon F100. >> >>(Such inconsistency greatly devalues your often excellent >>contributions to this List.) > > >It is no inconsistency. Maybe not in your eyes. ;-) John
Re: "Pro" talk (was Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back.)
The biggest problem with electronics and cameras is moisture. At some point in the production live of the F3, Nikon went to conformal coating for the circuit boards. This seals the electronics better than sealing the body. BR [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: don't know about f4, but f3 is not sealed, afaik.
Re: "Pro" talk (was Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back.)
don't know about f4, but f3 is not sealed, afaik. there's a good reason why lx has a lens between the screen anf the finder. i suspect it's a lot more difficult to make interchangeable screens f3-style, that would also keep the camera sealed. mishka From: "whickersworld" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: "Pro" talk (was Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back.) mishka wrote: you want it sealed against element , have interchangeable finders, interchangeable screens and have easy access to insides? Of course! My Nikon F3 and F4 both did, so why so you suggest it is not reasonable to expect that of the Pentax?
Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back
John wrote: Just like the *ist D's only function is to convince potential customers to buy into the Pentax FA* system because there's a digital future there too? REPLY: No. The MD-S was. The *ist D will be released in a months time. The R9 digital back will be *shown* in 1,5 years time. The back is shown now in order to make people buy the R9. Thats pretty obvious. Pål
Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back
John wrote: This so-called "enormous cost" is an illusion put about by people who think they cannot afford Leica. REPLY: Illusion? The back alone cost $4500 at a time when similarly specced digital solution will likely cost $1000 or less. On thing is the case for expensive Leica lenses and bodies, another is the point in buying a Leica branded CCD at several magnitudes the cost of competitive products. John wrote: >Of course you can buy better back without changing >the body but why not buy a better body as well? That depends what you mean by "better". To suggest that the R9 lacks features compared with a Canon EOS something-or-other does not happily sit with the same person defending the Pentax MZ-S to the death against the features and better performance of the Nikon F100. (Such inconsistency greatly devalues your often excellent contributions to this List.) REPLY: It is no inconsistency. I refered to the simple fact that hardly anyone would rather upgrade their current equipment to level X when brand new camera at that level can be had cheaper. How many owners of the eg. Canon D60 would have choosen to upgrade it to 1DS level and payed more than a brand new 1DS (or a D10 for that matter)? Pål
Digital backs (WAS: Re: Gear happiness (WAS: Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back.))
John wrote: It is quite clear that the Leica R8 and R9 were designed from the ground up to be BOTH film AND digital cameras. This back is not some half-baked add-on accessory, it is an intrinsic part of the Leica R8/R9 system. REPLY: It was designed in the mid 90's where it might have been seen as a good idea. In the fast moving digital world being stucked with the same body might not. Digital back are developed for products that sell in so small numbers that dedicated digital camera hasn't been really viable yet. So far it is about medium format and the odd Leica. In the future there won't be any "MF" as we understand it. There will only be digital at various CCD sizes. Digital camera will then compete with other digital cameras and "outdated" bodies with digital solutions will simply loose out in the competition. Pål
Re: Gear happiness (WAS: Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back.)
Graywolf wrote: > > The problem with interchangeable backs on 35mm cameras is not patents, but > technology. It is simply that digital sensors have not been on the surface > of the chip but buried behind a protective surface and then maybe an > antialiasing filter over that. > > What does that mean? Well, look into the back of your camera. See the shiney > rails the film rides on? Now look at the shutter curtain see how close it is > to those rails? Now the film has to ride on those rails for the image to be > in focus. If the surface of the chip is placed on the rails the actual > sensor is too far back to bring the image into focus. If you use a smaller > chip and push it down into the film aperture between the rails it interferes > with the shutter. So neither option will work. The reason they don't have > that problem with medium format magazine back cameras is that the film rails > are in the magazine a few millimeters behind the physical back of the camera > body which allows enough clearance to place the sensors exactly at the focus > point. > > Now, what seems to be the difference with the sensor for the proposed Leica > back is they have managed to place the sensors right at the surface of the > chip (actually, inset less than 7 microns). That is a major breakthrough. > However, you may have read in the article that there is no antialiasing > filter. That is simply because there is no room between the chip and the > shutter. > > Silicon film has an even more difficult problem because it has to fit > between the film rails and the pressure plate of the existing back. I would > imagine that the problem they have found insurmountable so far is making a > sensor that thin that is not also so fragile that it is useless in the real > world. > > I have explained this before, but it was probably back when we were talking > about the MZ-D which was quite a while ago. Thanks, Graywolf, for that very informative posting. Best regards, John
Re: Gear happiness (WAS: Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back.)
Marnie aka Doe wrote: > > Yes, that's quite different. And agreed. Thanks! John
Re: "Pro" talk (was Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back.)
mishka wrote: > > you want it sealed against element , have interchangeable finders, > interchangeable screens and have easy access to insides? Of course! My Nikon F3 and F4 both did, so why so you suggest it is not reasonable to expect that of the Pentax? In fact, the LX does well in all respects except the last. John
Re: Gear happiness (WAS: Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back.)
The problem with interchangeable backs on 35mm cameras is not patents, but technology. It is simply that digital sensors have not been on the surface of the chip but buried behind a protective surface and then maybe an antialiasing filter over that. What does that mean? Well, look into the back of your camera. See the shiney rails the film rides on? Now look at the shutter curtain see how close it is to those rails? Now the film has to ride on those rails for the image to be in focus. If the surface of the chip is placed on the rails the actual sensor is too far back to bring the image into focus. If you use a smaller chip and push it down into the film aperture between the rails it interferes with the shutter. So neither option will work. The reason they don't have that problem with medium format magazine back cameras is that the film rails are in the magazine a few millimeters behind the physical back of the camera body which allows enough clearance to place the sensors exactly at the focus point. Now, what seems to be the difference with the sensor for the proposed Leica back is they have managed to place the sensors right at the surface of the chip (actually, inset less than 7 microns). That is a major breakthrough. However, you may have read in the article that there is no antialiasing filter. That is simply because there is no room between the chip and the shutter. Silicon film has an even more difficult problem because it has to fit between the film rails and the pressure plate of the existing back. I would imagine that the problem they have found insurmountable so far is making a sensor that thin that is not also so fragile that it is useless in the real world. I have explained this before, but it was probably back when we were talking about the MZ-D which was quite a while ago. Ciao, Graywolf http://pages.prodigy.net/graywolfphoto - Original Message - From: "whickersworld" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Neither would I! But I like the concept. > If Leica can somehow break the strangle- > hold that Silicon Film seems to have on > this market, I would expect other camera > manufacturers to follow suit.
Re: "Pro" talk (was Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back.)
i think that defines a submarine pretty well. Herb - Original Message - From: "mishka" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2003 21:37 Subject: Re: "Pro" talk (was Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back.) > you want it sealed against element , have interchangeable finders, > interchangeable screens and have easy access to insides? > > mishka
Re: "Pro" talk (was Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back.)
you want it sealed against element , have interchangeable finders, interchangeable screens and have easy access to insides? mishka Not with the LX, you still have to change screens through the lens mount throat. Uh Oh. Bad news. :-(
digital storage (Re: SV: Leica R9/R8 digital back)
for me, the plain folders/filenames/textfiles with description beat slide storage, as most systems that i have seen (not many since i am not very interested -- what i have (nothing) works wonderfully for me) just give your folders meaningful names, give your files meaningful unique names, and stick all the comments for a folder in a single text file. then use "search" -- this is pretty fast and you are not limited to what a db backend lets you stick in. i have about 50GB of scans, 2000 files. mishka Subject: Re: SV: Leica R9/R8 digital back I'm interested in how you would do that. Have you got a system yet or would you use one of the existing photo storage software packages... Thanks Vic In a message dated 6/28/03 10:13:41 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Your comment shows how diverse we are, I see the potential of digital image storage as a clear advantage :-) Rob Studdert
Re: SV: Leica R9/R8 digital back
On 28 Jun 2003 at 16:50, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > I'm interested in how you would do that. Have you got a system yet or would you > use one of the existing photo storage software packages... Thanks Vic I have a storage system for my digital images that I'm fairly happy with but what I was alluding to was more the flexibility available. The fact that you can make first generation copies to store in alternate locations. And that you can load data up to a server that would for instance allow you to access your library at full resolution near instantaneously virtually wherever you were on the globe. All this without having to scan one piece of film :-) Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://members.ozemail.com.au/~distudio/publications/ Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998
Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back
On 29 Jun 2003 at 0:32, whickersworld wrote: > The "Silicon Film" concept was excellent, > and generated tremendous interest, but > that company never found a partner who > could make it work. I believe that the spin generated about it caused much interest but the concept was flawed and was not at all likely to ever succeed. Two major sticking points before the raft of other technical difficulties being the fact that the sensor could never be produced to have similar dimensions to film and secondly that there is such variation between the film gate to cartridge distance between camera models. Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://members.ozemail.com.au/~distudio/publications/ Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998
Re: Gear happiness (WAS: Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back.)
In a message dated 6/28/2003 6:21:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > Hi Marnie, > > It is quite clear that the Leica R8 and R9 > were designed from the ground up to be > BOTH film AND digital cameras. This back > is not some half-baked add-on accessory, > it is an intrinsic part of the Leica R8/R9 > system. Aha, didn't realize that, maybe from reading Pal's comment. > > That seems to me like good design *and* > good engineering. > > John Yes, that's quite different. And agreed. Nevermind! (Roseann Rosannadanna voice) Marnie aka Doe That's what I get for posting to a thread that I wasn't really reading. ;-)
Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back.
Bruce Rubenstein wrote: > > Canon & Nikon provide Professional Service > plans for free for qualifying (i.e. pro) > photographers. It doesn't help amateurs. Bruce, The Nikon Professional Service in the UK is a joke. I cannot speak about any other country, but here NPS is almost a byword for slow and inefficient service. No way is it faster than what the consumer gets. I quickly learnt that I had to choose an independent Nikon-approved repairer to have any chance of getting my gear back quickly and competently repaired. The one I chose was Fixation, of London SE1, and I was very happy with their service. I am told that Pentax service here in the UK is very much better than Nikon's. I will soon find out, as I have decided to have *all* my Pentax gear serviced ... John
Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back
Alin Flaider wrote: > >Very likely the camera won't keep up with the digital back. >Supposing the number of megapixel increases, so it should the >processing power in the camera itself to deal with the increased >and faster output of the digital back. I doubt very much that there is anything in the camera-to-digital back telemetry that will need to be changed. > These things should be seen >as a whole. You're welcome to that opinion. I disagree. The "Silicon Film" concept was excellent, and generated tremendous interest, but that company never found a partner who could make it work. The Leica idea is slightly different but equally attractive. I hope it succeeds, because I believe that other camera manufacturers would be keen to offer it at a more attractive price point. John
Re: Gear happiness (WAS: Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back.)
Marnie aka Doe wrote: > >Any camera designed from the ground up >to be digital will be a much bettter >digital camera than a film camera with a >digital back. Hi Marnie, It is quite clear that the Leica R8 and R9 were designed from the ground up to be BOTH film AND digital cameras. This back is not some half-baked add-on accessory, it is an intrinsic part of the Leica R8/R9 system. That seems to me like good design *and* good engineering. John
Re: Gear happiness (WAS: Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back.)
Pål Jensen wrote: > >This was not about dissing Leica but about >the concept of a digital back for an old >camera model. The R9 is a *brand new* model, unless of course one of your many talents is time travel. >I would not, though, spend about 55 post >on it on the Leica list. Neither would I! But I like the concept. If Leica can somehow break the strangle- hold that Silicon Film seems to have on this market, I would expect other camera manufacturers to follow suit. John
Re: "Pro" talk (was Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back.)
Peter Alling wrote: > > Not on the LX unfortunatly. Thanks. (FX: sound of quiet sobbing ...)
Re: "Pro" talk (was Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back.)
Bruce Rubenstein wrote: > > Not with the LX, you still have to change screens > through the lens mount throat. Uh Oh. Bad news. :-( >(With the Nikon F cameras, after the finder is >removed then the screen can be lifted out. No >need to play dentist.) Same with the F2, F3 and F4. I sometimes wonder why I ever changed from Nikon to Pentax! (actually, it was because I released enough cash to buy a Leica M6 and a couple of Leica lenses!) John
Re: Gear happiness (WAS: Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back.)
Not really, most DSLR's today are based on Film SLR bodies. It doesn't take much to tell the Digital part of the camera that it should be prepared to capture an image. It even makes sense to protect the digital sensor with a shutter curtain. Especially if the camera has interchangeable lenses. I have seen no compelling reason to design a DSLR from the ground up except for cost. At 03:51 PM 6/28/03 -0400, you wrote: In a message dated 6/28/2003 2:45:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > Not absolutely true, Marnie. If it was true, then the only way to go > would be to buy a digital point and shoot because they were > never > designed to shoot film. > > Len Neither is a DSLR. While it may "ape" a SLR it was/is designed to be digital, not shoot film. Marnie aka Doe :-) To grasp the true meaning of socialism, imagine a world where everything is designed by the post office, even the sleaze. O'Rourke, P.J.
Re: SV: Leica R9/R8 digital back
I'm interested in how you would do that. Have you got a system yet or would you use one of the existing photo storage software packages... Thanks Vic In a message dated 6/28/03 10:13:41 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: >Your comment shows how diverse we are, I see the potential of digital image > > >storage as a clear advantage :-) > > > >Rob Studdert > >HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA
Re: Gear happiness (WAS: Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back.)
In a message dated 6/28/2003 7:47:01 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > REPLY: > > Really? One post or was it two? This was not about dissing Leica but about the > concept of a digital back for an old camera model. It wouldn't matter if it had been > for a old Nikon, Sigma or the Pentax Z-1p. I would still made comments on the > concept. I would not, though, spend about 55 post on it on the Leica list. Not a > single post in fact. I just thought that the concept was not such a good idea, > something for others to > repeat. > > Pål You know a great deal more about photography and Pentax than I do, but yes I think it's a bad idea too -- based on what I know about computers, not cameras. Any camera designed from the ground up to be digital will be a much bettter digital camera than a film camera with a digital back. Although I can see why it could appeal to someone with a great deal of money already spent on a particular system. On the other hand, probably anyone in that position would much be better off moving to another brand to buy a DSLR. Just based on the complicated technology involved. Marnie aka Doe :-)
Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back
Juey Chong Ong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >On Friday, June 27, 2003, at 06:34 PM, Peter Alling wrote: > >> I've never seen a ruggedized Mac, > >http://online.sfsu.edu/~hl/c.Tempest.Mac.html >http://www.wired.com/news/mac/0,2125,57961,00.html >http://digitaltigers.com/flyingtiger.shtml >http://www.wired.com/news/mac/0,2125,51670,00.html Cool stuff, but none of them is a ruggedized Mac. The third (Flying Tiger) is the only ruggedized one, and it runs a Pentium IV, although they say it can be set up to run the Mac O.S. The second one is apparently a standard Mac that's being used because the standard issue ruggedized laptops aren't powerful enough (no surprise to me - all the military laptops I've seen use far from cutting edge technology. They tend to keep a generation behind and are willing to sacrifice a lot of performance for survivability.) I think the first and fourth ones on the above list are the most interesting. Tempest technology is kinda spooky but very cool. Some of the equipment we built at my former place of employment used tempest certified connectors and such. Very cloak-and-dagger! -- Mark Roberts Photography and writing www.robertstech.com
Re: SV: Leica R9/R8 digital back
On 28 Jun 2003 at 8:10, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > There are all kinds of reasons people use to HAVE to go > digital. Many of them are legitimate at least in their minds. There are > certainly issues with going digital â in my mind namely storing and retrieving > of images. I have a hard time just keeping my slides stored properly let alone > hundreds and likely thousands of digital images. However, the postive side Your comment shows how diverse we are, I see the potential of digital image storage as a clear advantage :-) Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://members.ozemail.com.au/~distudio/publications/ Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998
Re: Gear happiness (WAS: Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back.)
Lukasz wrote: It's one thing to critisize something, and the other to repeatedly moan about how a certain company should do this or that while having no intention to buy the supposedly "better" product. REPLY: It would have been weird if I moaned repeatedly on the Leica mailing list. Like 67 post on the subject. Pål
Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back
Tempest approved computers weren't rugged in the sense of being able to be subjected to extremes of shock, vibration and temperature. They were designed for very low EMI radiation and used for working on classified material. They were very expensive and for classified computing it was cheaper, in the long run, to screened rooms to put regular PCs into. BR [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Friday, June 27, 2003, at 06:34 PM, Peter Alling wrote: I've never seen a ruggedized Mac, http://online.sfsu.edu/~hl/c.Tempest.Mac.html http://www.wired.com/news/mac/0,2125,57961,00.html http://digitaltigers.com/flyingtiger.shtml http://www.wired.com/news/mac/0,2125,51670,00.html
Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back
On Friday, June 27, 2003, at 06:34 PM, Peter Alling wrote: I've never seen a ruggedized Mac, http://online.sfsu.edu/~hl/c.Tempest.Mac.html http://www.wired.com/news/mac/0,2125,57961,00.html http://digitaltigers.com/flyingtiger.shtml http://www.wired.com/news/mac/0,2125,51670,00.html
Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back
It depends were they bought used, (after all used lenses are cheap didn't you know that)? ;-> But then digital cameras/backs weren't developed with "used-lenses" users in mind. :-) regards, Alan Chan _ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back
it usually means starting with changing the plastic case for some type of metal one. the exact type depends on just how rugged it needs to be. i have seen specs for magnesium and titanium ones. dust seals all round including the keyboard or even completely covering the upper surface, esp the LCD, with heavy plastic sometimes happens. ruggedized PC notebook computers vary from improved shock and dust resistance to ones designed to be used in hostile environments with acid vapors and such. you can safely assume that 3 times the price of the original portable is a good starting point when minimally ruggedized. i vaguely remember a place that would do it for any computer if you are willing to pay. Herb. - Original Message - From: "Cotty" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Pentax List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, June 27, 2003 18:23 Subject: Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back > >apparently, he took a stock Mac Powerbook too and not a ruggedized one. > > Aha (he chimed in) Herb, and what exactly would a ruggedized Mac > PowerBook entail exactly? > > Just curious,
Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back
Peter Alling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >I've never seen a ruggedized Mac, but I have seen PC's set up to Mil. Spec. >They're supposed to be emp proof. Don't know about EMP proof but they're pretty rugged. We used to sell systems built around them at my last place of employment. MIL-spec stuff. Heavy duty case (magnesium alloy or similar), dust seals, ruggedized keyboard. I think they have special hard drives as well, but I don't know that for certain. -- Mark Roberts Photography and writing www.robertstech.com
Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back
I've never seen a ruggedized Mac, but I have seen PC's set up to Mil. Spec. They're supposed to be emp proof. At 11:23 PM 6/27/03 +0100, you wrote: >apparently, he took a stock Mac Powerbook too and not a ruggedized one. Aha (he chimed in) Herb, and what exactly would a ruggedized Mac PowerBook entail exactly? Just curious, Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=| www.macads.co.uk/snaps _ Free UK Mac Ads www.macads.co.uk To grasp the true meaning of socialism, imagine a world where everything is designed by the post office, even the sleaze. O'Rourke, P.J.
Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back
>apparently, he took a stock Mac Powerbook too and not a ruggedized one. Aha (he chimed in) Herb, and what exactly would a ruggedized Mac PowerBook entail exactly? Just curious, Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=| www.macads.co.uk/snaps _ Free UK Mac Ads www.macads.co.uk
Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back
It depends were they bought used, (after all used lenses are cheap didn't you know that)? ;-> At 05:24 PM 6/27/03 -0400, you wrote: With Lcica, $10,000 worth of lenses isn't all that many lenses... cheers, frank Jens Bladt wrote: > Hi Aren't you forgetting, that the body may be the least of the total > investment - I mean if you have like 10.000$ woth of lenses etc. matching > this body and mount? > Jens > > -Oprindelig meddelelse- > Fra: Mike Ignatiev [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sendt: 26. juni 2003 15:18 > Til: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Emne: Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back > > buy a better back ($4500) without having to change your SLR ($1000)? > is it me or does it sound like "buy a better camera without having to change > neck-strap"? > > mishka > > > From: "whickersworld" > > Subject: Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back > > > > I think you've completely overlooked the enormous > > benefit of using a digital back with a film SLR. > > That is, when the digital technology improves, you > > can buy a better back without having to change your > > SLR. -- "What a senseless waste of human life" -The Customer in Monty Python's Cheese Shop sketch To grasp the true meaning of socialism, imagine a world where everything is designed by the post office, even the sleaze. O'Rourke, P.J.
Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back
The problem for photographers is that they are in a very competitive field. They are always afraid that the next shooter will be able to offer something that they can't. For news it timeliness and visual impact (color). It would be much easier to shoot color film and send it back to where ever the lab is, than to run a whole digital darkroom/transmission center. It's a lot more gear than was needed for developing B&W in the hotel sink. The thing is, they know that that's what you have to do if that's what you want to do for a living. They aren't doing it because digital is cool. BR [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: the guy in the Pop Photo article was much more worried about dust-related failures than anything. one of his three digital bodies died (cause not stated), and one of his solar chargers (from overheating). apparently, he took a stock Mac Powerbook too and not a ruggedized one.
Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back
frank theriault <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >With Lcica, $10,000 worth of lenses isn't all that many lenses... HAR! (Two or three, perhaps?) -- Mark Roberts Photography and writing www.robertstech.com
Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back
With Lcica, $10,000 worth of lenses isn't all that many lenses... cheers, frank Jens Bladt wrote: > Hi Aren't you forgetting, that the body may be the least of the total > investment - I mean if you have like 10.000$ woth of lenses etc. matching > this body and mount? > Jens > > -Oprindelig meddelelse- > Fra: Mike Ignatiev [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sendt: 26. juni 2003 15:18 > Til: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Emne: Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back > > buy a better back ($4500) without having to change your SLR ($1000)? > is it me or does it sound like "buy a better camera without having to change > neck-strap"? > > mishka > > > From: "whickersworld" > > Subject: Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back > > > > I think you've completely overlooked the enormous > > benefit of using a digital back with a film SLR. > > That is, when the digital technology improves, you > > can buy a better back without having to change your > > SLR. -- "What a senseless waste of human life" -The Customer in Monty Python's Cheese Shop sketch
Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back
the guy in the Pop Photo article was much more worried about dust-related failures than anything. one of his three digital bodies died (cause not stated), and one of his solar chargers (from overheating). apparently, he took a stock Mac Powerbook too and not a ruggedized one. Herb. - Original Message - From: "Bruce Rubenstein" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, June 27, 2003 17:11 Subject: Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back > There was Charlie Rose show (PBS) a few weeks ago with 4 or 5 > photographers who were in Iraq. At one point the discussion got onto > equipment and they all shot digital and multiple digital backups. At > this point they are as familiar with the durability of the digital gear > as they were with film gear, and wouldn't appear to think they need a > film back up. > I think that a high energy EMP bomb would have them concerned about > thing other than cameras.
Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back
the guy in the article didn't, and he had a Mac Powerbook along too. Herb - Original Message - From: "Mark Roberts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, June 27, 2003 16:56 Subject: Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back > Although almost all the photos to come out of the war in Iraq were > probably digital, I wonder how many photographers had (mechanical) film > cameras in their bags as backups. There was a lot of talk about the > possible use of high energy EMP bombs that would destroy sensitive > electronic equipment. We know now (or at least we're pretty sure!) that > these weren't used, but if they had been they would have fried > journalist's electronic cameras (film and digital) as much as Iraqi > computer systems. I'd bet a lot of photographer's had an FM2 or > something "just in case". > > -- > Mark Roberts > Photography and writing > www.robertstech.com >
Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back
There was Charlie Rose show (PBS) a few weeks ago with 4 or 5 photographers who were in Iraq. At one point the discussion got onto equipment and they all shot digital and multiple digital backups. At this point they are as familiar with the durability of the digital gear as they were with film gear, and wouldn't appear to think they need a film back up. I think that a high energy EMP bomb would have them concerned about thing other than cameras. BR [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Although almost all the photos to come out of the war in Iraq were probably digital, I wonder how many photographers had (mechanical) film cameras in their bags as backups. There was a lot of talk about the possible use of high energy EMP bombs that would destroy sensitive electronic equipment. We know now (or at least we're pretty sure!) that these weren't used, but if they had been they would have fried journalist's electronic cameras (film and digital) as much as Iraqi computer systems. I'd bet a lot of photographer's had an FM2 or something "just in case".
Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back
Although almost all the photos to come out of the war in Iraq were probably digital, I wonder how many photographers had (mechanical) film cameras in their bags as backups. There was a lot of talk about the possible use of high energy EMP bombs that would destroy sensitive electronic equipment. We know now (or at least we're pretty sure!) that these weren't used, but if they had been they would have fried journalist's electronic cameras (film and digital) as much as Iraqi computer systems. I'd bet a lot of photographer's had an FM2 or something "just in case". -- Mark Roberts Photography and writing www.robertstech.com
Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back
the July issue of Pop Photo has an article from a warzone photographer that shot only digital. Herb. - Original Message - From: "Herb Chong" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, June 27, 2003 15:11 Subject: Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back > according to the Photo Marketing Association, SLR sales held steady, total film > camera sales dropped 31%, and compact digital camera sales were up by 25%. people > who buy Leica's or medium format and larger represent such a miniscule portion of > the market that what they do or don't do is nearly irrelevant to affecting trends. > many of the warzone pictures and video from Iraq were in fact done with digital > cameras with satellite radios and solar chargers. > > Herb
Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back
according to the Photo Marketing Association, SLR sales held steady, total film camera sales dropped 31%, and compact digital camera sales were up by 25%. people who buy Leica's or medium format and larger represent such a miniscule portion of the market that what they do or don't do is nearly irrelevant to affecting trends. many of the warzone pictures and video from Iraq were in fact done with digital cameras with satellite radios and solar chargers. Herb - Original Message - From: "Jens Bladt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, June 27, 2003 14:56 Subject: SV: Leica R9/R8 digital back > At the momnet, the only futuristic thing about digital photograohy is a > "new" point & shoot market - people who didn't like P&S cameras buy diggies > because it's easy, cheap to use and you can redo or delete bad shots at > once - and it HIP - and of course PJ's like it. They are in ahurry all the > time. When the digies reach 20-40 MP and much better battery economy, > storing abilities etc. then you have "the digital future" comming. Untill > then Leicas are still very durable and reliable cameras and the lenses are > superb. Who would want to be in a thunderstorm, in a war zone or on a > mountain for days with just a diggie, batteries, flash cards and a portable > CD writer, a car battery and lot of CD's?
RE: Leica R9/R8 digital back
Hi Aren't you forgetting, that the body may be the least of the total investment - I mean if you have like 10.000$ woth of lenses etc. matching this body and mount? Jens -Oprindelig meddelelse- Fra: Mike Ignatiev [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sendt: 26. juni 2003 15:18 Til: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Emne: Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back buy a better back ($4500) without having to change your SLR ($1000)? is it me or does it sound like "buy a better camera without having to change neck-strap"? mishka > From: "whickersworld" > Subject: Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back > > I think you've completely overlooked the enormous > benefit of using a digital back with a film SLR. > That is, when the digital technology improves, you > can buy a better back without having to change your > SLR.
SV: Leica R9/R8 digital back
Hi At the momnet, the only futuristic thing about digital photograohy is a "new" point & shoot market - people who didn't like P&S cameras buy diggies because it's easy, cheap to use and you can redo or delete bad shots at once - and it HIP - and of course PJ's like it. They are in ahurry all the time. When the digies reach 20-40 MP and much better battery economy, storing abilities etc. then you have "the digital future" comming. Untill then Leicas are still very durable and reliable cameras and the lenses are superb. Who would want to be in a thunderstorm, in a war zone or on a mountain for days with just a diggie, batteries, flash cards and a portable CD writer, a car battery and lot of CD's? In ten or twenty years noone can read a CD or a DVD anymore - theese machines belong on a museum by then. The "photographs" are just useless files - like antique carvings in a stone - or you'll have to kopi them every five years to the current, new file media. The Leica user can just pick up his negs or slides! To me it makes sence to be able to shoot digital of you need to - with the nice gear you know like your own pocket. And you can still make negs for important work! Jens -Oprindelig meddelelse- Fra: whickersworld [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sendt: 27. juni 2003 14:09 Til: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Emne: Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back Pål Jensen wrote: > >I believe the future is digital. Not film. >This Leicas only function is to convince >potential customers to buy into the dying >R system because theres a digital future >for it. Just like the *ist D's only function is to convince potential customers to buy into the Pentax FA* system because there's a digital future there too? >If this was something advanced users really >wanted, Nikon and Canon would have offered >it long time ago. Perhaps they will in the future? If not for the 'spoiling tactics' of Silicon Film, and their hold on certain key patents, I think we would have seen such offerings several years ago. >I wouldn't bet on it simply because the vast >majority buying into digital do it to avoid using >film You have made a statement here. Do you have any evidence whatsoever to back it up, or is it just another of your opinions presented as "fact"? >, so getting an old manual focus film slr in the > bargain and paying more than twice as much for > it than a DSLR doesn't seem like such a good idea > anymore Not to you, obviously! >But to each his own I guess. It is just my opinion ... Pål, it is *all* just your opinion, whether or not you try to present it as "fact". Your opinions are interesting, provocative and always well worth reading. So there is no need for you to try to give them (spurious) credibility by presenting them as "fact". Maybe that is just your style. Best regards, John (my apologies for not including this in my first reply to the same posting. I hit the return key by accident!)
Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back
whickersworld wrote: w> The bit you replace each year is the digital bit, which w> will - for the foreseeable future - will always be twice w> as good as last year's model. Very likely the camera won't keep up with the digital back. Supposing the number of megapixel increases, so it should the processing power in the camera itself to deal with the increased and faster output of the digital back. These things should be seen as a whole. Servus, Alin
Re: "Pro" talk (was Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back.)
Not on the LX unfortunatly. At 12:05 PM 6/27/03 +0100, you wrote: Alan Chan wrote: > > Just wondering, if F5 was supposed to be a press camera. What is the > importance of interchangable finders? I mean, the job of press photographers > is to point and shoot fast. Or is there any other applications which F5 > rules? Alan, The option of a waist level finder, a turret finder, a sports finder and even using no finder at all greatly extend the versatility of an SLR camera. I really miss my Nikon F4 because the additional finders were excellent for landscape, action, macro and copy work. I used standard, waist level and 6X turret finders and occasionally borrowed a sports finder from a friend. It's also why I bought a Pentax LX, whose finder options are (in my opinion) even better than Nikon's. However, I haven't bought any non-standard finders yet ... Another point; interchangeable finders mean that changing focusing screens is a breeze! Regards, John To grasp the true meaning of socialism, imagine a world where everything is designed by the post office, even the sleaze. O'Rourke, P.J.
Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back.
On 27 Jun 2003 at 9:57, Th. Stach wrote: > ARGGHH!! > Shocking! Looks even bulkier than the SL was. > Is there a modderdriver attached to the R8? > Or is this a battery attachment? Yes it has the battery attachment on the base, no motor, it just supplies shutter/metering, with the motor it is absolutely huge. I have pretty small hands however I've never really been uncomfortable handling any camera until I picked up the R8. Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://members.ozemail.com.au/~distudio/publications/ Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998
Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back.
Rob wrote: > This digital back shows just why it's not a practical solution, did you see how > far out the LCD sticks, you need an eye extension to get close to the finder. Hehe, the LX finder-base would easily compensate for it. FD-1 with eyepiece FC-1. 45° - very convenient! ;-) ***I wanted to say: FD-1 with eyepiece FD-2*** ...acronyms ... ;-/ > Also there is the bulk involved in implementing such a system, to give you an > idea of scale see my pic following showing an R8 beside an LX > http://members.ozemail.com.au/~geroc/R8vsLX_side.jpg ARGGHH!! Shocking! Looks even bulkier than the SL was. Is there a modderdriver attached to the R8? Or is this a battery attachment? Thomas
Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back.
Rob wrote: > This digital back shows just why it's not a practical solution, did you see how > far out the LCD sticks, you need an eye extension to get close to the finder. Hehe, the LX finder-base would easily compensate for it. FD-1 with eyepiece FC-1. 45° - very convenient! ;-) > Also there is the bulk involved in implementing such a system, to give you an > idea of scale see my pic following showing an R8 beside an LX > http://members.ozemail.com.au/~geroc/R8vsLX_side.jpg ARGGHH!! Shocking! Looks even bulkier than the SL was. Is there a modderdriver attached to the R8? Or is this a battery attachment? Thomas
Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back.
Pentax in Colorado used to have a policy that if you were a working pro, they would provide 24 hour turn around for repairs on current model cameras I did receive that kind of service on two occasions. I have to admit it has been awhile since I met either criteria though. Ciao, Graywolf http://pages.prodigy.net/graywolfphoto - Original Message - From: "Jens Bladt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2003 4:21 PM Subject: RE: Leica R9/R8 digital back. > Pro or not > I've more than once heard photographers say, that a pro camera, is a camera > (or any photographic equipment), that you can have reapired within a few > days. Some (repair)shops actually have that policy - to repair certain > (professional)itmes very fast (having the spare parts in stock, etc.). So, > this obviously has a lot do do with sales numbers, service argonization etc. > rather than quality or features etc... > Regards > Jens > > -Oprindelig meddelelse- > Fra: Pål Jensen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sendt: 26. juni 2003 22:00 > Til: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Emne: Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back. > > > William wrote: > > The MZ-S, as well constructed as it is, is not backed by a system, and > doesn't have a lot of what are now considered Pro features. > > REPLY: > Pentax never claimed the MZ-S was a pro camera. They have called it semi-pro > and the boss of the camera division compared it to the EOS3 and the F100. In > camera tech talk this simply means that the MZ-S is built to the same > standards. > A pro camera for a camera manufacturer simply say something about durability > and built quality. > Theres something in the argument too that what is considered pro features, > simply defined as what pro camera currently have, enters the picture as > well. > Pentax set out to make the MZ-S different. > > Pål >
Re: "Pro" talk (was Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back.)
Action finder on LX (I suppose there's a similar one for F5) is just for that. Mishka From: "Alan Chan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: "Pro" talk (was Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back.) >How about the Nikon F5 and in MF... just about all of them? Just wondering, if F5 was supposed to be a press camera. What is the importance of interchangable finders? I mean, the job of press photographers is to point and shoot fast. Or is there any other applications which F5 rules? regards, Alan Chan
Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back.
- Original Message - From: Jens Bladt Subject: RE: Leica R9/R8 digital back. > Pro or not > I've more than once heard photographers say, that a pro camera, is a camera > (or any photographic equipment), that you can have reapired within a few > days. Some (repair)shops actually have that policy - to repair certain > (professional)itmes very fast (having the spare parts in stock, etc.). So, > this obviously has a lot do do with sales numbers, service argonization etc. > rather than quality or features etc... Pentax fails miserably in this regard where I live. William Robb
Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back.
- Original Message - From: Pål Jensen Subject: Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back. > William wrote: > > The MZ-S, as well constructed as it is, is not backed by a system, and > doesn't have a lot of what are now considered Pro features. > > REPLY: > Pentax never claimed the MZ-S was a pro camera. I don't think I said Pentax had claimed that the MZ-S was a pro body, the original question was, if I recall, > What makes the LX more "pro" than the MZS??? In the context of the question, the LX was every bit as "Pro" as the cameras it was contempranous to when it was released, but the MZ-S is not. Who pentax targeted the camera to was not part of the question, nor answer. William Robb
Re: "Pro" talk (was Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back.)
- Original Message - From: Joshua Hakin Subject: Re: "Pro" talk (was Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back.) > How many systems today have interchangeable viewfinders? One in 35mm (Nikon f5), many of the medium format systems. William Robb
Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back
The R8's seem to be under $1000us new on ebay. > Perhaps you will tell me where I can buy a new Leica > R9 budy for $1000? At that price, I would probably > buy a few hundred and sell them at a profit ... > > ;-) > >
Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back.
Doug, Me too. I am very happy with both my 35mm gear and my medium format. Bruce Thursday, June 26, 2003, 1:54:44 PM, you wrote: DB> Not unfortunate at all. I'm comfortable and satisfied with my choice of DB> camera gear. Makes photography less stressful, being fine with the equipment. DB> At 04:43 PM 6/26/03, throwing caution to the wind, Lawrence Kwan wrote: >>True; but unfortunately, I am the odd man out in this list - I actually >>like and prefer Pentax! >> >> >>-- >>--Lawrence Kwan--SMS Info Service/Ringtone Convertor--PGP:finger/www-- >>[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.vex.net/~lawrence/ -Key ID:0x6D23F3C4--
Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back
This was true for the 10 year period of 1987 - 1997, but there's been almost no advance in the last 3 years. Maybe some catching up by Pentax, but Canon and Nikon haven't come out with anything better. R&D $ is going into digital. BR [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: the useful life of the body is about 3-5 years. that is how long it takes roughly for a superior AF and metering system to be available at the same or lower cost of the body you have now.
Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back
if you use an AF camera's autofocus and the camera's built-in metering all the time, the useful life of the body is about 3-5 years. that is how long it takes roughly for a superior AF and metering system to be available at the same or lower cost of the body you have now. these features will be better enough to make a difference in getting that shot faster than you were able to before. Herb. - Original Message - From: "whickersworld" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2003 20:12 Subject: Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back > A Leica SLR will last at least 15-20 years with use. > > Why would you want to replace each year an item > with 14-19 years' life still in it? There's no need. > > The bit you replace each year is the digital bit, which > will - for the foreseeable future - will always be twice > as good as last year's model. >
Re: Gear happiness (WAS: Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back.)
> Then maybe we could quote him from the Leica R8/R9 thread with: It's one thing to critisize something, and the other to repeatedly moan about how a certain company should do this or that while having no intention to buy the supposedly "better" product. Regards, Lukasz === www.fotopolis.pl [EMAIL PROTECTED] === internetowy magazyn o fotografii
OT Nikon mount (Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back.)
Just a quote from there: "For the past three years, people groan about not being able to use the new G lenses on their 40 year old F bodies. there comes a point in time where back-wards compatibility hinders advances in technology." LOL. Sounds exactly like some Pentax apologists here. Len Paris wrote: Just goes to show us the difference between moderated and unmoderated mailing lists. I usually prefer the moderated lists but, in this case, I think the moderated list is out of touch with reality. Rebuttals are fine, but to deleting the threads is a bit too much.
RE: Leica R9/R8 digital back.
Just goes to show us the difference between moderated and unmoderated mailing lists. I usually prefer the moderated lists but, in this case, I think the moderated list is out of touch with reality. Rebuttals are fine, but to deleting the threads is a bit too much. Len --- > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 1:27 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back. > > > Excerpt from: > http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=005K61 > > > Today, I saw this message from David Dentry from Nikon USA in > the D1 Discussion Digest. Mr. Dentry has made it clear that > his message respresents the official Nikon position: > > HI > > Ok, everyone take a deep breath... > > Here you go: > > "Nikon is not planning on changing the standard "F" mount on > new cameras." > > Let me shout that out a little louder: > > "NIKON IS NOT PLANNING ON CHANGING THE STANDARD "F" MOUNT ON > NEW CAMERAS." > > We were told that you couldn't do AF with the "small" "F" > mount, but we did. > We were told that you couldn't have internal focusing, but we did. > We were told that you couldn't have "AF-S" focusing in the > "F," but we did. > We were told that you couldn't get extreme wide angle, but we did. > Clearly the current lens mount system works and it would be > silly for us to alienate 50 years of lens purchasers. Hope > this is clear! > > -David > > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- > David Dentry > Manager, Technical Information, Digital Products > Nikon USA > > > > Mark Roberts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > >Interesting that he cites "knowledgeable" Nikon sources. I'm > personally > >quite surprised that there's been no official denial of the > new Nikon > >lens mount rumour. When the rumour first surfaced I gave it a 99% > >chance of being pure bullsh*t. Now my estimate is down to 50%. > > > __ > McAfee VirusScan Online from the Netscape Network. > Comprehensive protection for your entire computer. Get your > free trial today! > http://channels.netscape.com/ns/computing/mcafee/index.jsp?pro mo=393397 Get AOL Instant Messenger 5.1 free of charge. Download Now! http://aim.aol.com/aimnew/Aim/register.adp?promo=380455
Re: Gear happiness (WAS: Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back.)
Pål Jensen wrote: >>> The weirdest stuff are those who are unhappy with equipment they >>> never had any intention of buying in the first place. Now that is >>> weird. Like that guy Paal Jensen being unhappy with Leica R9 ? No. That guy is not unhappy with the R9, Then maybe we could quote him from the Leica R8/R9 thread with: "old and outdated camera bodies" "And who's then going to choose this Leica body being not very desireable in the first place" "the dying R system " cheers, caveman
Re: Gear happiness (WAS: Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back.)
> Like that guy Paal Jensen being unhappy with Leica R9 ? No. That guy is not unhappy with the R9, he has no interest in it. He does, however, find the R6 interesting.
Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back.
There's a cure for that ailment you know Feroze - Original Message - From: "Mark Roberts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > I'm suffering from an almost-complete lack of equipment lust these days. > I could get used to this!
Re: Gear happiness (WAS: Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back.)
Pål Jensen wrote: The weirdest stuff are those who are unhappy with equipment they never had any intention of buying in the first place. Now that is weird. Like that guy Paal Jensen being unhappy with Leica R9 ? cheers, caveman
Gear happiness (WAS: Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back.)
Doug wrote: > Not unfortunate at all. I'm comfortable and satisfied with my choice of > camera gear. Makes photography less stressful, being fine with the equipment. So am I. Particularly after I aquired the 150-300 for the 645 all my gear lust (well most of it) is cured. I'm perfectly happy with my outfit. Come to think of it, that rumored 16/2,8 could just tempt me... The weirdest stuff are those who are unhappy with equipment they never had any intention of buying in the first place. Now that is weird. Pål
Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back.
Doug Brewer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >Not unfortunate at all. I'm comfortable and satisfied with my choice of >camera gear. Makes photography less stressful, being fine with the equipment. I just realized that it's been over a year since I last purchased a lens. I tried to think what other lens I'd really like to add to my collection and couldn't come up with one that I'd really go out of my way to get. I suppose either the 31mm or 77mm Limited would be nice but I already have damned fine lenses in the appropriate focal length range. A "pro-quality" 17-35 zoom would be nice, but since I do mostly landscape photography these days, I get along fine with my primes. I suppose a DSLR is somewhere in my future but I don't have a pressing need for one right now. My current 35mm and 645 bodies provide everything I need. I'm suffering from an almost-complete lack of equipment lust these days. I could get used to this! -- Mark Roberts Photography and writing www.robertstech.com
Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back.
Not unfortunate at all. I'm comfortable and satisfied with my choice of camera gear. Makes photography less stressful, being fine with the equipment. At 04:43 PM 6/26/03, throwing caution to the wind, Lawrence Kwan wrote: True; but unfortunately, I am the odd man out in this list - I actually like and prefer Pentax! -- --Lawrence Kwan--SMS Info Service/Ringtone Convertor--PGP:finger/www-- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.vex.net/~lawrence/ -Key ID:0x6D23F3C4--
Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back.
On Thu, 26 Jun 2003, Caveman wrote: > > I personnally would want a separate digital body, so that I can shoot > > film and digital whenever I want. > If you don't mind using separate lenses too, they're available now. True; but unfortunately, I am the odd man out in this list - I actually like and prefer Pentax! -- --Lawrence Kwan--SMS Info Service/Ringtone Convertor--PGP:finger/www-- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.vex.net/~lawrence/ -Key ID:0x6D23F3C4--
Re: "Pro" talk (was Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back.)
Ya ya, in 35mm, I am honestly curious... On Thursday, June 26, 2003, at 03:44 PM, Caveman wrote: Joshua Hakin wrote: How many systems today have interchangeable viewfinders? Mamiya, Hasselblad, Pentax (67), Contax, Bronica cheers, caveman
Re: "Pro" talk (was Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back.)
I actually didn't know, that's why I ask... On Thursday, June 26, 2003, at 03:39 PM, Christian Skofteland wrote: On Thursday 26 June 2003 15:26, Joshua Hakin wrote: How many systems today have interchangeable viewfinders? How about the Nikon F5 and in MF... just about all of them? Christian
RE: Leica R9/R8 digital back.
Pro or not I've more than once heard photographers say, that a pro camera, is a camera (or any photographic equipment), that you can have reapired within a few days. Some (repair)shops actually have that policy - to repair certain (professional)itmes very fast (having the spare parts in stock, etc.). So, this obviously has a lot do do with sales numbers, service argonization etc. rather than quality or features etc... Regards Jens -Oprindelig meddelelse- Fra: Pål Jensen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sendt: 26. juni 2003 22:00 Til: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Emne: Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back. William wrote: The MZ-S, as well constructed as it is, is not backed by a system, and doesn't have a lot of what are now considered Pro features. REPLY: Pentax never claimed the MZ-S was a pro camera. They have called it semi-pro and the boss of the camera division compared it to the EOS3 and the F100. In camera tech talk this simply means that the MZ-S is built to the same standards. A pro camera for a camera manufacturer simply say something about durability and built quality. Theres something in the argument too that what is considered pro features, simply defined as what pro camera currently have, enters the picture as well. Pentax set out to make the MZ-S different. Pål
Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back
John wrote: I think you've completely overlooked the enormous benefit of using a digital back with a film SLR. That is, when the digital technology improves, you can buy a better back without having to change your SLR. REPLY: What enormous benefit? It seems to be at an enourmous cost and getting old and outdated camera bodies in the "bargain". The benefit is that you can use film and digital with the same body. I'm not sure this is a real benefit as it leaves you without a back-up body at a higher cost. Of course you can buy better back without changing the body but why not buy a better body as well? It is cheaper! So far all digital back solution is more expensive than DSLR alone so basically by upgrading a DSLR you get the new improved body for free. No..you actually get paid for it! And this Leica really proves it. Nobody is going to convince me that a 10mp DSLR cost even close to $4500 in 2 years time. And who's then going to choose this Leica body being not very desireable in the first place something its abyssmal sales record proves? Digital backs for medium format have reportedly been a failure; they sell extremely slowly and most rather buy an EOS 1DS which is much cheaper. JOHN: The R8/R9 were clearly developed with this in mind. In my view, this demonstrates excellent foresight from a company that is so often criticised for lacking innovation and living in the past. In this example, Leica just might be the future. No doubt this news will provide great encouragement to users and prospective buyers of Leica film(/digital!) SLRs. REPLY: I believe the future is digital. Not film. This Leicas only function is to convince potential customers to buy into the dying R system because theres a digital future for it. If this was something advanced users really wanted, Nikon and Canon would have offered it long time ago. Perhaps they will in the future? I wouldn't bet on it simply because the vast majority buying into digital do it to avoid using film, so getting an old manual focus film slr in the bargain and paying more than twice as much for it than a DSLR doesn't seem like such a good idea anymore as most already own perfectly well working film slr's, perhaps more desirable than this Leica, and those who don't, and want a DSLR, are probably not going to have any interest in film. But to each his own I guess. It is just my opinion and I'm not at all convinced that the digital back solution will hit on. It will always have a price disadvantage and in the fast moving digital world being stucked with the same camera technology isn't going to be seen as an advantage either. Pål
Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back.
William wrote: The MZ-S, as well constructed as it is, is not backed by a system, and doesn't have a lot of what are now considered Pro features. REPLY: Pentax never claimed the MZ-S was a pro camera. They have called it semi-pro and the boss of the camera division compared it to the EOS3 and the F100. In camera tech talk this simply means that the MZ-S is built to the same standards. A pro camera for a camera manufacturer simply say something about durability and built quality. Theres something in the argument too that what is considered pro features, simply defined as what pro camera currently have, enters the picture as well. Pentax set out to make the MZ-S different. Pål
Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back.
John wrote: On the contrary, there have been official denials from Nikon Japan, Nikon USA, Nikon Europe and Nikon UK. You can be sure that the rumour is about as false as could be. REPLY: If so, it is sad. It was such a great idea. However, unless Nikon plan to release the stuff in the next month or so, they have no choice but to deny it in order not to strangles sales of current products. Time will tell... Pål
Re: "Pro" talk (was Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back.)
Joshua Hakin wrote: How many systems today have interchangeable viewfinders? Mamiya, Hasselblad, Pentax (67), Contax, Bronica cheers, caveman
Re: "Pro" talk (was Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back.)
On Thursday 26 June 2003 15:26, Joshua Hakin wrote: > How many systems today have interchangeable viewfinders? > > How about the Nikon F5 and in MF... just about all of them? Christian
Re: digital backs (was Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back.)
T Rittenhouse wrote: U? I must be missing something here. Why not just record when light hits the sensor, I mean you do have a shutter. What more do you need? You don't want to read the sensor in the middle of an exposure, do you ? cheers, caveman
Re: digital backs (was Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back.)
U? I must be missing something here. Why not just record when light hits the sensor, I mean you do have a shutter. What more do you need? Ciao, Graywolf http://pages.prodigy.net/graywolfphoto - Original Message - From: "Caveman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 10:20 PM Subject: Re: digital backs (was Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back.) > Anthony Farr wrote: > > Interesting. Do you know how the backs are controlled? My guess would be > > that either they use X-synch from the lens to signal the back when capture > > should commence, or they totally bypass the shutter system of the camera and > > use their own 'virtual' shutter. > > Supposing there's no signal from the camera available. And since it's > not a full frame sensor. You have the physical place for an additional > optical sensor that could detect when the shutter starts moving. > > cheers, > caveman >
Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back.
- Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back. > It uses film. > I knew that. William Robb
Vs: "Pro" talk (was Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back.)
Yes, but the question was not about flash metering. Like you say OTF flash metering is quite common even in lower level cameras. All the best! Raimo Personal photography homepage at http://www.uusikaupunki.fi/~raikorho -Alkuperäinen viesti- Lähettäjä: whickersworld <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Vastaanottaja: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Päivä: 26. kesäkuuta 2003 14:15 Aihe: Re: "Pro" talk (was Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back.) >Raimo Korhonen wrote: > >So Pentax LX and Olympus OM-2 were the only professional >cameras in the world? >Actually OTF has bad points as well as good ones, probably >more bad ones because it never caught on with other >manufacturers. And there was the entry level OM-10. > > >Hi Raimo, > >Surely most, if not all TTL flash control systems use OTF >metering? > >It would appear to have caught on with a great many >manufacturers. > >John >
Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back
buy a better back ($4500) without having to change your SLR ($1000)? is it me or does it sound like "buy a better camera without having to change neck-strap"? mishka > From: "whickersworld" > Subject: Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back > > I think you've completely overlooked the enormous > benefit of using a digital back with a film SLR. > That is, when the digital technology improves, you > can buy a better back without having to change your > SLR.
Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back.
"whickersworld" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >On the contrary, there have been official denials from Nikon >Japan, Nikon USA, Nikon Europe and Nikon UK. Where have these denials appeared? Anything other than the carefully worded comment Pål remarked on so astutely? -- Mark Roberts Photography and writing www.robertstech.com
Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back.
It uses film. BR "William Robb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >The MZ-S, as well constructed as it is, is not backed by a system, and >doesn't have a lot of what are now considered Pro features. __ McAfee VirusScan Online from the Netscape Network. Comprehensive protection for your entire computer. Get your free trial today! http://channels.netscape.com/ns/computing/mcafee/index.jsp?promo=393397 Get AOL Instant Messenger 5.1 free of charge. Download Now! http://aim.aol.com/aimnew/Aim/register.adp?promo=380455
Re: "Pro" talk (was Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back.)
Brendan schrieb: > > Pentax we want a MZ-S with the AF and metering ( only > if it's beter ) from the *ist, full Kmount, AND > DIGITAL BACK! 10 mp if you would please. No!!! You forgot the interchangeable viewfinders! And more fps, please! ;-) Thomas > --- Alan Chan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >Thank > you Pentax! > > >And today? > > >Curse you Pentax! > > > > What a nice way to repay Pentax. :-) > > Repay? What is this repay-thingie? I bought their MZ-3 - I had to PAY for it! :-) Thomas
Re: "Pro" talk (was Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back.)
Pentax we want a MZ-S with the AF and metering ( only if it's beter ) from the *ist, full Kmount, AND DIGITAL BACK! 10 mp if you would please. --- Alan Chan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >Thank you Pentax! > >And today? > >Curse you Pentax! > > What a nice way to repay Pentax. :-) > > regards, > Alan Chan > > _ > Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online > http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 > __ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca
Re: "Pro" talk (was Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back.)
Thank you Pentax! And today? Curse you Pentax! What a nice way to repay Pentax. :-) regards, Alan Chan _ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
Re: "Pro" talk (was Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back.)
Caveman schrieb: > > Joshua Hakin wrote: > > > > What makes the LX more "pro" than the MZS??? > > OTF metering. A feature not to be found in entry level cameras. > For me it's the system! The LX was a real system: Interchangeable viewfinders (which I make extensive use of!) atttachable/detachable (as you prefer...) drives/winders, energy sources, bulkfilm-magazine, screens... But the viewfinders I miss the most! At work I once use a Leicaflex SL for general & macro work. One day the shutter was irreparable broken. The lenses wouldn't even fit the newer series (R4 or R5 at that time?)!!! What a joy - time to jump ship! Starry-eyed I was, AF was new and tempting and so I bought: a Nikon F4! In addition macro lenses, 35/2.0, flashes and two viewfinders. What a completely different way to work compared to the Leicaflex with metering needle, dim viewfinder, bellows and so on! And then I realised: The Nikon's magni-finder didn't offer all metering modes. I think, he didn't even offer AV mode, only manual. Do I remember this correctly? And so realised: The LX is still absolutely unsurpassed in this field! And that's why it is still the ultimate professional body for me. I used Leicas, Nikons, Hassies, Rolleis. Well, i know you can't compare apples to pears. But the LX gave me what I think is called "workflow" in every situation. Thank you Pentax! And today? Curse you Pentax! ;-) cheers, Thomas
Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back.
- Original Message - From: Joshua Hakin Subject: Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back. > > What makes the LX more "pro" than the MZS??? In it's time, the LX was one of the most advanced system cameras made. Of course, the times changed very quickly, and the LX didn't, so it was superceded by more advanced cameras from other makers. This is the Pentax way, it seems, but I digress. The MZ-S, as well constructed as it is, is not backed by a system, and doesn't have a lot of what are now considered Pro features. William Robb
Vs: "Pro" talk (was Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back.)
So Pentax LX and Olympus OM-2 were the only professional cameras in the world? Actually OTF has bad points as well as good ones, probably more bad ones because it never caught on with other manufacturers. And there was the entry level OM-10. All the best! Raimo Personal photography homepage at http://www.uusikaupunki.fi/~raikorho -Alkuperäinen viesti- Lähettäjä: Caveman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Vastaanottaja: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Päivä: 26. kesäkuuta 2003 4:22 Aihe: "Pro" talk (was Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back.) >Joshua Hakin wrote: >> >> What makes the LX more "pro" than the MZS??? > >OTF metering. A feature not to be found in entry level cameras. > >cheers, >caveman ;-) >
Re: digital backs (was Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back.)
On Wednesday, June 25, 2003, at 10:06 PM, Anthony Farr wrote: Interesting. Do you know how the backs are controlled? My guess would be that either they use X-synch from the lens to signal the back when capture should commence, or they totally bypass the shutter system of the camera and use their own 'virtual' shutter. IIRC, in the case of the Hassy, they use the X-sync. If the camera has a motor drive port, some of them also hook up to the motor drive so that you can fire the shutter from the computer. I just looked at my PhaseOne compatibility chart and --- surprise! --- Pentax 35mm lenses are on the recommended list! Doesn't say which ones, though --jc
Re: "Pro" talk (was Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back.)
Bill Owens wrote: OTF metering. A feature not to be found in entry level cameras. Except the now departed Olympus OM-10 Does not have interchangeable viewfinders. Another feature not to be found in entry level cameras. cheers, caveman ;-)
Re: "Pro" talk (was Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back.)
> Joshua Hakin wrote: > > > > What makes the LX more "pro" than the MZS??? > > OTF metering. A feature not to be found in entry level cameras. > > cheers, > caveman ;-) Except the now departed Olympus OM-10 Bill
Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back.
What a sweet setup, I think I`ll shoot film today and digital tomorrow. Choices are good! Steve Larson Redondo Beach, California - Original Message - From: "Christian Skofteland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 7:44 AM Subject: OT: Leica R9/R8 digital back. > http://www.dpreview.com/news/0306/03062502leicadigitalr9.asp > > Christian > >
"Pro" talk (was Re: Leica R9/R8 digital back.)
Peter Alling wrote: a professional camera is what a professional uses Professionals have used about each and every camera that was ever manufactured. According to this def, all cameras are professional. cheers, caveman ;-)
