Re: MZ-S - First Look

[K.Takeshita]

on 5/27/01 8:01 PM, Jeff at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> select dial was a bit
> 'loose' when stationery); could have been the demo unit I saw but I'm not so
> sure.

Hi Jeff,

Thank you for the report.
I was told by a friend who purchased the MZ-S that Pentax seem to have fixed
this dial stiffness problem which he was aware when he handled it in Japan
Camera Show several weeks ago.  So, the one you saw might indeed have been a
demo machine.

Also, reviewing a few Japanese mail lists, most everybody was impressed by
its compact size, light weight and how comfortable the grip was.  They were
also very positive about the build quality and happy that the MZ-S can now
certainly handle the FA*300/2.8 :-)  Some people miss the Z-1p style
aperture control (from the body) yet some others prefer turning the lens
aperture ring like in the MZ-S.

Indeed a good sign that the retailer has sold out the stock so quickly.
Hope more choices of bodies will come :-)

Cheers,

Ken

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MZ-S - First Look

[Jeff]

Stopped by Yodobashi Camera here in Tokyo last night before closing and saw
the MZ-S on the display stand. Won't bother to repeat other user impressions
other than the fact that the build quality left a bit to be desired (dials
were stiffer than I thought to be necessary and the select dial was a bit
'loose' when stationery); could have been the demo unit I saw but I'm not so
sure.

It was remarkably light though even with the battery back on which is a good
sign.

Of particular interest to note is that the salesman said that they started
selling on Saturday morning with 80 units in stock (priced at JPY110,000
which is around US$930 or so) and had already cleared out their entire stock
by Sunday afternoon.

Signs of good things to come?

Cheers.

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Re: MZ-S First look

[Michael Perham]

Jens Bladt wrote:

> Why don't we just buy it, guys - it may very well be our last (new) 35mm film
> camera.
> Heck, this one will outlast 35mm film, anyway.

Mine is on order... Local Pentax rep says delivery scheduled for June, but could
run into September.  Sigh!!!

Cheers, Mike.

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RE: MZ-S First look

[Jens Bladt]

Hi
Someone wrote:
Don't get me
>wrong, I like most of what I've heard about the
>camera.   Just don't want to part with that much
>money.

That's not fair: The MZ-S is clearly an F100 competitor. A used LN F100 cost
999$.
There are only few pro's et con's. If you own some Pentax/K-mount lenses,
the MZ-S pricing makes  sence. It would be more expensive to switch to
Nikon. It will be a nice "back-up camera" for pro's who are using the
digital version, Pentax 67 or 645. But it will not make anyone switch from
Nikon or Canon. The digital version might!
BTW, I think it's very understandable that Pentax makes this camera, not an
entry into the 35mm pro market. Not an F5 or an EOS1 competitor. The MZ
series is probably the largest SLR success Pentax has had since the break
through of autofocus.  Any sane businessman would try to follow up on this,
try topping it off with a more rugged, better featured, better designed
camera - still using the MZ concept. The entry into the "35mm" pro market is
the digital twin. If this turns out successfully, we might see other high
end 35mm cameras - film and digital - from Pentax. Untill we know, we'll try
to shoot great photographs with the MZ-S as well as all the other thousinds
Pentax cameras that's still working after 10, 20, 30, 40 years! Why don't we
just buy it, guys - it may very well be our last (new) 35mm film camera.
Heck, this one will outlast 35mm film, anyway.
Jens




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Re: MZ-S First look

[Paul Jones]

Just a maybe interesting point, here in Melbourne Australia, we have been
getting Television ads for MZ-7. in semi prime time too...

i havent actualy seen the ad, but my girlfriend takes note :) (she also has
a pentax, but a p&s)


- Original Message -
From: "Alan Chan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2001 4:50 PM
Subject: Re: MZ-S First look


> >Part of me hopes that you're right, Pal.  A larger
> >part of me hopes that you're wrong and that Pentax is
> >forced to drop the price into my range.  Don't get me
> >wrong, I like most of what I've heard about the
> >camera.   Just don't want to part with that much
> >money.
>
> I am hoping the price of MZ-S will drop after a year or so. Besides, I am
> sceptical about the first production run. There might be many minor
mistakes
> should be corrected (like the LX).
>
> >I still worry about Pentax's marketing.  Retailers
> >I've spoken to about the MZ-S (in Charlottesville and
> >and Abby and Penn in DC) think of Pentax as a maker of
> >P&S and cheap SLRs (and high quality lenses that are
> >too often difficult to find).  To them the LX and MX
> >are ancient history.  They're going to steer anyone
> >with nearly a grand to spend towards Nikon and Canon.
> >How is Pentax going to overcome this prejudice?
>
> They never would I believe. You cannot change the perception of most
people
> unless your effort is persistant. A few products would never be able to
> change the overall image of Pentax. Pentax sure don't have this
persistence.
> Their policy seemed to follow their mood instead of logic.
>
> >More on marketing...  Wouldn't producing a silver
> >version would be a mistake?  (Yes, I know, matches the
> >limited lenses.)  But Nikon and Canon have trained
> >consumers to see silver SLRs as low end.  Pro cameras,
> >the thinking goes, are black, unless they're high end
> >rangefinders.
>
> Not necessarily so, the question is, do Pentax have the gut to market
their
> MZ-S and Limited lenses as a whole package, a high quality package. Konica
> made a miracle by introducing Hexar (and now the Hexar RF), Ricoh with
GR-1.
> I know these two models are compact cameras, but also remember these two
> brands were not considered professional too. Of course, if Pentax decided
to
> go ahead and put some ads on paper, just hope they were not some stupid
> silly looking ads like so many other Pentax ads were (I'd rather not
reading
> them at all). Poor ads is worse than no ads at all.
>
> >A silver MZ-S, if it is actually manufactured, would
> >reinforce people's impression that the camera not in
> >the same class as, say, the F100.  And overpriced as
> >well.  I'm not saying that black=pro, silver=entry
> >level amateur makes sense.  But is does seem to be the
> >way the market operates.
> >Or is all of this going in the wrong direction?  Does
> >Pentax simply accept that the MZ-S will sell in very
> >small numbers and largely to Pentax fanatics?  Is
> >their model for the MZ-S the LX--a superb camera that
> >failed in the marketplace, but has achieved cult
> >status?
>
> I would expect the black version would sell better than the silver. But
for
> me, I would prefer the silver just to match with my lenses.
>
> regards,
> Alan Chan
>
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Re: MZ-S First look

[Alan Chan]

>This is what happened to the Z-1p. I doubt, though, it will happen to the 
>MZ-S. The Z-1p was mass produced for warehouse stock. They probably at some 
>point wrote of the R&D at last years losses and reduced the price to clear 
>the stock. There is all reason to suspect that the MZ-S is built around 
>different principles. Fisrtly, is aparently geared for lower volumes. 
>Secondly, its very likely made on a flexible line and probably continuos 
>production with low stocks. The MZ-S is basically two cameras; the film and 
>digital version. This means that the film transport and digital electronics 
>must be modular. Theres no point in keeping large stocks of digital 
>cameras; the production must be able to respond to better chips and new 
>technology fast. It is to be expected that the MZ-S sales will decrease 
>over time and that the digital version(s) will increase with time. 
>Hopefully the sum will be reasonably constant. Its obvious that the digital 
>MZ-S will see several incarnations over time like the Nikon D1. Likewise 
>the MZ-S can easily be developed into other incarnations; eg. a high speed 
>version is conceivable if Pentax wants to. Whats probable is that pentax 
>can sustain very low MZ-S production volumes as long as the overall volume 
>is kept up by the digital version in the future. Thats why I think the 
>MZ-S, or variations of it, will be a long time stayer.

But except one important factor - the digital Pentax might not be well 
received as you expected. It's not just the camera, but lenses too. I doubt 
many professionals would invest too deep into Pentax 135 lenses.

>Yes, I believe this is correct except that I don't think LX failed in the 
>market place. It has sold very well for its price.

In Japan, maybe.

regards,
Alan Chan
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Re: MZ-S First look

[Alan Chan]

>Part of me hopes that you're right, Pal.  A larger
>part of me hopes that you're wrong and that Pentax is
>forced to drop the price into my range.  Don't get me
>wrong, I like most of what I've heard about the
>camera.   Just don't want to part with that much
>money.

I am hoping the price of MZ-S will drop after a year or so. Besides, I am 
sceptical about the first production run. There might be many minor mistakes 
should be corrected (like the LX).

>I still worry about Pentax's marketing.  Retailers
>I've spoken to about the MZ-S (in Charlottesville and
>and Abby and Penn in DC) think of Pentax as a maker of
>P&S and cheap SLRs (and high quality lenses that are
>too often difficult to find).  To them the LX and MX
>are ancient history.  They're going to steer anyone
>with nearly a grand to spend towards Nikon and Canon.
>How is Pentax going to overcome this prejudice?

They never would I believe. You cannot change the perception of most people 
unless your effort is persistant. A few products would never be able to 
change the overall image of Pentax. Pentax sure don't have this persistence. 
Their policy seemed to follow their mood instead of logic.

>More on marketing...  Wouldn't producing a silver
>version would be a mistake?  (Yes, I know, matches the
>limited lenses.)  But Nikon and Canon have trained
>consumers to see silver SLRs as low end.  Pro cameras,
>the thinking goes, are black, unless they're high end
>rangefinders.

Not necessarily so, the question is, do Pentax have the gut to market their 
MZ-S and Limited lenses as a whole package, a high quality package. Konica 
made a miracle by introducing Hexar (and now the Hexar RF), Ricoh with GR-1. 
I know these two models are compact cameras, but also remember these two 
brands were not considered professional too. Of course, if Pentax decided to 
go ahead and put some ads on paper, just hope they were not some stupid 
silly looking ads like so many other Pentax ads were (I'd rather not reading 
them at all). Poor ads is worse than no ads at all.

>A silver MZ-S, if it is actually manufactured, would
>reinforce people's impression that the camera not in
>the same class as, say, the F100.  And overpriced as
>well.  I'm not saying that black=pro, silver=entry
>level amateur makes sense.  But is does seem to be the
>way the market operates.
>Or is all of this going in the wrong direction?  Does
>Pentax simply accept that the MZ-S will sell in very
>small numbers and largely to Pentax fanatics?  Is
>their model for the MZ-S the LX--a superb camera that
>failed in the marketplace, but has achieved cult
>status?

I would expect the black version would sell better than the silver. But for 
me, I would prefer the silver just to match with my lenses.

regards,
Alan Chan

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Re: MZ-S First look

[SETH]

"John Edwin Mason" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Pal wrote:
> >My guess is that the MZ-S will sell very well the
> >first year. Then I think it will settle as a steady
> >long term seller but in relatively small
> >volumes.
>
> Part of me hopes that you're right, Pal.  A larger
> part of me hopes that you're wrong and that Pentax is
> forced to drop the price into my range.  Don't get me
> wrong, I like most of what I've heard about the
> camera.   Just don't want to part with that much
> money.
>
> I still worry about Pentax's marketing.  Retailers
> I've spoken to about the MZ-S (in Charlottesville and
> and Abby and Penn in DC) think of Pentax as a maker of
> P&S and cheap SLRs (and high quality lenses that are
> too often difficult to find).  To them the LX and MX
> are ancient history.  They're going to steer anyone
> with nearly a grand to spend towards Nikon and Canon.
> How is Pentax going to overcome this prejudice?

If you asked those same dealers 20 years ago, they would have told
you that there was no way LX could survive against the likes of
Nikon, Canon, and Olympus.  They would have told you that K2 and KX
are ancient history and all Pentax is good for is a basic AE camera
like ME and MV.  They would have told you that Nikon F3 is o so much
better for only $300 more and any real "pro" would only use a camera
that weighs a ton.

> More on marketing...  Wouldn't producing a silver
> version would be a mistake?  (Yes, I know, matches the
> limited lenses.)  But Nikon and Canon have trained
> consumers to see silver SLRs as low end.  Pro cameras,
> the thinking goes, are black, unless they're high end
> rangefinders.

Regardless of impression, I prefer silver.  Pentax would do the
right thing by offering us a choice.

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Re: MZ-S First look

[John Edwin Mason]

Pal wrote:
>My guess is that the MZ-S will sell very well the
>first year. Then I think it will settle as a steady
>long term seller but in relatively small 
>volumes.

Part of me hopes that you're right, Pal.  A larger
part of me hopes that you're wrong and that Pentax is
forced to drop the price into my range.  Don't get me
wrong, I like most of what I've heard about the
camera.   Just don't want to part with that much
money. 

I still worry about Pentax's marketing.  Retailers
I've spoken to about the MZ-S (in Charlottesville and
and Abby and Penn in DC) think of Pentax as a maker of
P&S and cheap SLRs (and high quality lenses that are
too often difficult to find).  To them the LX and MX
are ancient history.  They're going to steer anyone
with nearly a grand to spend towards Nikon and Canon. 
How is Pentax going to overcome this prejudice?

More on marketing...  Wouldn't producing a silver
version would be a mistake?  (Yes, I know, matches the
limited lenses.)  But Nikon and Canon have trained
consumers to see silver SLRs as low end.  Pro cameras,
the thinking goes, are black, unless they're high end
rangefinders. 

A silver MZ-S, if it is actually manufactured, would
reinforce people's impression that the camera not in
the same class as, say, the F100.  And overpriced as
well.  I'm not saying that black=pro, silver=entry
level amateur makes sense.  But is does seem to be the
way the market operates.

Or is all of this going in the wrong direction?  Does
Pentax simply accept that the MZ-S will sell in very
small numbers and largely to Pentax fanatics?  Is
their model for the MZ-S the LX--a superb camera that
failed in the marketplace, but has achieved cult
status?


=
John Edwin Mason
Charlottesville, Virginia
Email:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Alt Email:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: yet another MZ-S first look

[Alexander Krohe]

Hi, thanks to all who share their MZ-S impressions. 
How do you rate the noise of the motor drive? Is it
particularly quite or is it more on the noisy side?
Alexander
 

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RE: yet another MZ-S first look

[David A. Mann]

Rob Brigham writes:

> For me, the only heavy item I want is my tripod!

 There's no such thing as a heavy 35mm camera :)  I used to think my K2 
was heavy until I got the RB67.

Cheers,


- Dave

David A. Mann, B.E.
email [EMAIL PROTECTED] * http://www.digistar.com/~dmann/

"Why is it that if an adult behaves like a child they lock him up,
 while children are allowed to run free on the streets?" -- Garfield
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Re: yet another MZ-S first look

[Pål Jensen]

Doug wrote:


> If "quality" in a 35mm body is defined by a camera that 
> approaches the size and weight of a medium format 
> camera, the MZ-S would feel cheap indeed. If, however, 
> you equate quality in 35mm with a small, well-built 
> package that seems durable, the MZ-S wins hands down.


Theres a danger that the MZ-S isn't really understood as a product by everybody. The 
MZ-S fits in with lightweight, magnesium outdoor  gear. A small, tough and capable 
body is welcomed by many.

Pål

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Re: yet another MZ-S first look

[Alin Flaider]

  Doug, thanks for the details. One of the limitations of Safox IV is
the inability to handle predictably multiple subjects. While the last
software versions (MZ-7, MZ-3) appear to have been improved in this
regard, one still cannot be sure what subject the wide area AF picks
up.
  It does seem the AF works better with MZ-S.

  Servus,  Alin

Doug wrote:

BD> Actually, I did point the camera at traffic going by outside, where it was
BD> very sunny, if cold, and the camera had no trouble with hunting at all. We
BD> were inside a relatively dim restaurant (Applebee's, for state-side
BD> reference. I can recommend the fried chicken salad) and I was harassing the
BD> other customers by randomly focusing on them. I didn't notice any hunt there
BD> either. In fact, at times when I was expecting the central sensor to
BD> activate, one of the outlying sensors would grab onto something else with
BD> more contrast. That was one of the reasons I said the system was quick and
BD> decisive.


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Re: yet another MZ-S first look

[Doug Brewer]

If "quality" in a 35mm body is defined by a camera that 
approaches the size and weight of a medium format 
camera, the MZ-S would feel cheap indeed. If, however, 
you equate quality in 35mm with a small, well-built 
package that seems durable, the MZ-S wins hands down.

I think I should also point out that the camera I saw, 
like all the MZ-S bodies in the states, are =not= 
considered production models. They are "working" models, 
which means that they were put together for PMA and for 
initial looks by dealers (and some other interested 
parties[ahem]). 

Flash exposure compensation does not follow the PZ-1p 
model, but rather the ZX/MZ model. 

Doug



Quoting dick graham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> Doug, I gather that you felt that the camera had a 
quality feel to it 
> unlike my brother,the photo store dealer, who said 
that it felt 
> cheap.  Also did you find anything out about flash 
exposure compensation?
> 
> DG


Ashwood Lake Photography
http://www.alphoto.com
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re: yet another MZ-S first look

[Brewer, Doug]

Alin,

While I was writing that, I kept having the feeling I had seen the foam
around the film window on other cameras, but could not dredge up a specific
memory, which is why I mentioned it could be common. Glad you cleared that
up for me. It's tough getting old.

Actually, I did point the camera at traffic going by outside, where it was
very sunny, if cold, and the camera had no trouble with hunting at all. We
were inside a relatively dim restaurant (Applebee's, for state-side
reference. I can recommend the fried chicken salad) and I was harassing the
other customers by randomly focusing on them. I didn't notice any hunt there
either. In fact, at times when I was expecting the central sensor to
activate, one of the outlying sensors would grab onto something else with
more contrast. That was one of the reasons I said the system was quick and
decisive.

Doug



Doug wrote:

DB> 3.) It is well put together. I was especially impressed with the
DB> way the back fits to the body. There are a series of ridges-- I
DB> believe there are two on the body and one on the door, but I may 
DB> have that backwards-- that go together to form a seal. The 
DB> one ridge fits between the two. Very well done.

  I just have rewound the film on my MZ-5N in order to open the back
and check it: it has the very same sealing, perhaps with the exception
of a bit of place between the opposite ridges. Unless the MZ-S has an
additional rubber fitting, there is nothing new here.

DB>  I also noticed a
DB> foam square around the inside of the film window. That could be a
DB> common thing on cameras, but I don't recall ever seeing it  
DB> before.

  Yes, it's common even on the simplest camera and designed to block
the light streaks around the film cannister.

DB>  The magnesium shell feels solid. I squeezed it and ther
DB> e was no give whatsoever. It feels like it should be around for a
DB> while.

  This is remarkable indeed. Both MZ-5N and Z-1p backs give up a
millimeter or so when squeezed. Nothing to worry about as it doesn't
affect the film plane alignment, but still a nasty feeling of insecure
grip, especially with heavy lenses.

DB> 4.) For Alan Chan, I examined the finder window and, for the life
DB> of me, I couldn't determine if it was glass or plastic. My money
DB> is on glass, though. It's that kind of camera.

  Hard to tell on an MZ-5N too. Until someone scratches his MZ-S
eyepiece on purpose, under controlled, reproducible conditions, of
course we won't know it for sure. ;o)

DB> 7.) The AF is quick and decisive. To test it, I used my
DB> FA*80-200/2.8 (keeping an eye on that focus scale window in case
DB> it decided to leap off the lens), and it had no trouble with
DB> either the camera-selected or user-selected sensors. I got it to
DB> hunt, but really, it was a tough scene, some thin branches with a
DB> brightly colored BP station in the background, and I was using a
DB> single sensor. To be fair, since not everybody has a 80-200/2.8, I
DB> also mounted the new 24-90 on there and pointed it around the
DB> place. Though the viewfinder was noticeably darker, the camera
DB> seemed to handle it just fine. 

   Actually no one tested it with moving subjects, like the street
crowd in a sunny day, or a walking person towards the camera in a dim
bar - something that usually makes the MZ-5N hunt for focus more than
it's acceptable to take the picture.

   Servus, Alin
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RE: yet another MZ-S first look

[Rob Brigham]

Some people seem to judge quality by weight.  Because MZ-S is light then
it cannot be quality!  Some even seem to think it is plastic because of
the weight.

Others judge quality by the fitting of components (gap width etc) and
solidity.  This seems to be what people refer to when they say quility
is good.  These people understand that magnesium is still strong even
though it is light.

For me, the only heavy item I want is my tripod!

Rob Brigham

-Original Message-
From: dick graham [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: 07 March 2001 14:31
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: yet another MZ-S first look


Doug, I gather that you felt that the camera had a quality feel to it 
unlike my brother,the photo store dealer, who said that it felt 
cheap.  Also did you find anything out about flash exposure
compensation?

DG



At 11:40 PM 3/6/01 -0500, you wrote:
>Spent a couple of hours examining the MZ-S this afternoon, and thought
I'd 
>share a few impressions with you. First, here's Ed Sullivan: "Tonight
we 
>have a rilly big shoe."
>
>Thank you, thank you. Now, on to the camera. Some points in no
particular 
>order.
>
>1.) It's =small=. Sure, I read the specs, but I was still surprised. To

>put the features this camera has into a package this small, those guys
at 
>Pentax did their homework. I can see that I would need to have the
battery 
>pack/grip attached semi-permanently, to have a good grip on it. For 
>reference, I have the grip strap on my PZ-1p and a winder on my LX
because 
>they improve the holdability for me.
>
>2.) It was also lighter than I expected, and yet...
>
>3.) It is well put together. I was especially impressed with the way
the 
>back fits to the body. There are a series of ridges-- I believe there
are 
>two on the body and one on the door, but I may have that backwards--
that 
>go together to form a seal. The one ridge fits between the two. Very
well 
>done. I also noticed a foam square around the inside of the film
window. 
>That could be a common thing on cameras, but I don't recall ever seeing
it 
>before. The magnesium shell feels solid. I squeezed it and there was no

>give whatsoever. It feels like it should be around for a while.
>
>4.) For Alan Chan, I examined the finder window and, for the life of
me, I 
>couldn't determine if it was glass or plastic. My money is on glass, 
>though. It's that kind of camera.
>
>5.) Okay, the controls. It took me all of five or ten seconds to get
the 
>feel of total control. To leave it in program mode, set the lens to A
(if 
>the lens has the A setting). To move to Av priority, take it off of A. 
>Then, if you want to go to full manual, shift the shutter speed by
turning 
>the dial. If the lens is still set at a preferred f/stop, you can go
back 
>to Av priority by touching the green button on the front. To run in Tv 
>priority, just leave the lens on A and turn the dial to select your 
>shutter speed. It's incredibly simple.
>
>5a.) The Hold button seems to be a mystery around here. It's for the 
>shutter speed.  If you set a shutter speed you want to stay with, you
just 
>use the hold button. If you then turn the control dial, the shutter
speed 
>doesn't change and "HOLD" flashes on the LCD. I forgot to check if
there's 
>is also on indication on the viewfinder.
>
>5b.) The DOF preview is right there at your index finger. Way cool. You

>just put your finger on it and sort of pull it. It's more like a little

>slide action. For those of you, like me, who are accustomed to
=pushing= 
>DOF previews, this takes a little getting used to. I must have turned
the 
>camera off five times trying to activate the DOF preview. Once I got
the 
>hang of it, though, I thought it was pretty cool.
>
>5c.) Selecting the AF points is simple as well. Using the middle finger
of 
>my left hand, I slid the switch up, then turned the control dial until
the 
>point I wanted lit up at the bottom of the viewfinder. To return to 
>letting the camera choose the sensor, I just clicked the selector
switch 
>back down.
>
>5d.) I was a trifle disappointed that the exposure compensation system
of 
>the PZ-1p is not on this camera. It's a really great feature of the
PZ-1p. 
>Fortunately, using the exp comp dial on the MZ-S is a breeze. I was
able 
>to do it with just my left thumb; push in the lock release and turn the

>dial in the same motion. The over/under indicator off the right side of

>the viewfinder stays invisible until comp is used (and, I assume,
though 
>didn't check, when you're using metered manual), which I liked.
>
>Which brings us to
>
>6.) The viewfinder seemed bright to me, and well placed. By that I mean

>that there is almost a tunnel effect there. The viewf

Re: yet another MZ-S first look

[dick graham]

Doug, I gather that you felt that the camera had a quality feel to it 
unlike my brother,the photo store dealer, who said that it felt 
cheap.  Also did you find anything out about flash exposure compensation?

DG



At 11:40 PM 3/6/01 -0500, you wrote:
>Spent a couple of hours examining the MZ-S this afternoon, and thought I'd 
>share a few impressions with you. First, here's Ed Sullivan: "Tonight we 
>have a rilly big shoe."
>
>Thank you, thank you. Now, on to the camera. Some points in no particular 
>order.
>
>1.) It's =small=. Sure, I read the specs, but I was still surprised. To 
>put the features this camera has into a package this small, those guys at 
>Pentax did their homework. I can see that I would need to have the battery 
>pack/grip attached semi-permanently, to have a good grip on it. For 
>reference, I have the grip strap on my PZ-1p and a winder on my LX because 
>they improve the holdability for me.
>
>2.) It was also lighter than I expected, and yet...
>
>3.) It is well put together. I was especially impressed with the way the 
>back fits to the body. There are a series of ridges-- I believe there are 
>two on the body and one on the door, but I may have that backwards-- that 
>go together to form a seal. The one ridge fits between the two. Very well 
>done. I also noticed a foam square around the inside of the film window. 
>That could be a common thing on cameras, but I don't recall ever seeing it 
>before. The magnesium shell feels solid. I squeezed it and there was no 
>give whatsoever. It feels like it should be around for a while.
>
>4.) For Alan Chan, I examined the finder window and, for the life of me, I 
>couldn't determine if it was glass or plastic. My money is on glass, 
>though. It's that kind of camera.
>
>5.) Okay, the controls. It took me all of five or ten seconds to get the 
>feel of total control. To leave it in program mode, set the lens to A (if 
>the lens has the A setting). To move to Av priority, take it off of A. 
>Then, if you want to go to full manual, shift the shutter speed by turning 
>the dial. If the lens is still set at a preferred f/stop, you can go back 
>to Av priority by touching the green button on the front. To run in Tv 
>priority, just leave the lens on A and turn the dial to select your 
>shutter speed. It's incredibly simple.
>
>5a.) The Hold button seems to be a mystery around here. It's for the 
>shutter speed.  If you set a shutter speed you want to stay with, you just 
>use the hold button. If you then turn the control dial, the shutter speed 
>doesn't change and "HOLD" flashes on the LCD. I forgot to check if there's 
>is also on indication on the viewfinder.
>
>5b.) The DOF preview is right there at your index finger. Way cool. You 
>just put your finger on it and sort of pull it. It's more like a little 
>slide action. For those of you, like me, who are accustomed to =pushing= 
>DOF previews, this takes a little getting used to. I must have turned the 
>camera off five times trying to activate the DOF preview. Once I got the 
>hang of it, though, I thought it was pretty cool.
>
>5c.) Selecting the AF points is simple as well. Using the middle finger of 
>my left hand, I slid the switch up, then turned the control dial until the 
>point I wanted lit up at the bottom of the viewfinder. To return to 
>letting the camera choose the sensor, I just clicked the selector switch 
>back down.
>
>5d.) I was a trifle disappointed that the exposure compensation system of 
>the PZ-1p is not on this camera. It's a really great feature of the PZ-1p. 
>Fortunately, using the exp comp dial on the MZ-S is a breeze. I was able 
>to do it with just my left thumb; push in the lock release and turn the 
>dial in the same motion. The over/under indicator off the right side of 
>the viewfinder stays invisible until comp is used (and, I assume, though 
>didn't check, when you're using metered manual), which I liked.
>
>Which brings us to
>
>6.) The viewfinder seemed bright to me, and well placed. By that I mean 
>that there is almost a tunnel effect there. The viewfinder is surrounded 
>my a bit of black all the way around, and none of the indicators inside 
>intrude on the viewfinder itself. I even dug out my glasses to have a look 
>and I was able to see all of the viewfinder and the indicators with 
>minimal effort. I should note here that I =never= wear my glasses while 
>photographing, but I was curious how people who wear glasses all the time 
>would see the viewfinder.
>
>7.) The AF is quick and decisive. To test it, I used my FA*80-200/2.8 
>(keeping an eye on that focus scale window in case it decided to leap off 
>the lens), and it had no trouble with either the camera-selected or 
>user-selected sensors. I got it to hunt, but really, it was a tough scene, 
>some thin branches with a brightly colored BP station in the background, 
>and I was using a single sensor. To be fair, since not everybody has a 
>80-200/2.8, I also mounted the new 24-90 on there

RE: yet another MZ-S first look

[Doug Brewer]

Sure, Den. No problem.

Doug



At 8:16 AM +03003/7/01, Dennis Klimovich caused thus to appear:
>Dear Doug.
>Is it possible to add your message to our collection of
>'MZ-S impressions"?
>I mean two messages from PDMLers (Cesar and Ed) now in our
>"News" list
>.
>This reviews are visited very well - because many people
>want to know more about this body but doesn't have access
>and/or PDML subscription Your message will add some very
>interesting details IMHO...
>Den
>__
>The Penta Magazine - online photo magazine
>www.mtu-net.ru/penta; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-- 
Douglas Forrest Brewer
Ashwood Lake Photography
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.alphoto.com
-
This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List.  To unsubscribe,
go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to
visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .

Re: yet another MZ-S first look

[Paul]

Hi Doug,

Thanks for the review, I think we pretty much know all the specs now but the
big questions is, is it worth $1000?  It seems a tad expensive for the specs
but does it make up for it in build and feel?

Yours
Paul
- Original Message -
From: "Doug Brewer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 3:40 PM
Subject: yet another MZ-S first look


> Spent a couple of hours examining the MZ-S this afternoon, and thought I'd
share a few impressions with you. First, here's Ed Sullivan: "Tonight we
have a rilly big shoe."
>
> Thank you, thank you. Now, on to the camera. Some points in no particular
order.
>
> 1.) It's =small=. Sure, I read the specs, but I was still surprised. To
put the features this camera has into a package this small, those guys at
Pentax did their homework. I can see that I would need to have the battery
pack/grip attached semi-permanently, to have a good grip on it. For
reference, I have the grip strap on my PZ-1p and a winder on my LX because
they improve the holdability for me.
>
> 2.) It was also lighter than I expected, and yet...
>
> 3.) It is well put together. I was especially impressed with the way the
back fits to the body. There are a series of ridges-- I believe there are
two on the body and one on the door, but I may have that backwards-- that go
together to form a seal. The one ridge fits between the two. Very well done.
I also noticed a foam square around the inside of the film window. That
could be a common thing on cameras, but I don't recall ever seeing it
before. The magnesium shell feels solid. I squeezed it and there was no give
whatsoever. It feels like it should be around for a while.
>
> 4.) For Alan Chan, I examined the finder window and, for the life of me, I
couldn't determine if it was glass or plastic. My money is on glass, though.
It's that kind of camera.
>
> 5.) Okay, the controls. It took me all of five or ten seconds to get the
feel of total control. To leave it in program mode, set the lens to A (if
the lens has the A setting). To move to Av priority, take it off of A. Then,
if you want to go to full manual, shift the shutter speed by turning the
dial. If the lens is still set at a preferred f/stop, you can go back to Av
priority by touching the green button on the front. To run in Tv priority,
just leave the lens on A and turn the dial to select your shutter speed.
It's incredibly simple.
>
> 5a.) The Hold button seems to be a mystery around here. It's for the
shutter speed.  If you set a shutter speed you want to stay with, you just
use the hold button. If you then turn the control dial, the shutter speed
doesn't change and "HOLD" flashes on the LCD. I forgot to check if there's
is also on indication on the viewfinder.
>
> 5b.) The DOF preview is right there at your index finger. Way cool. You
just put your finger on it and sort of pull it. It's more like a little
slide action. For those of you, like me, who are accustomed to =pushing= DOF
previews, this takes a little getting used to. I must have turned the camera
off five times trying to activate the DOF preview. Once I got the hang of
it, though, I thought it was pretty cool.
>
> 5c.) Selecting the AF points is simple as well. Using the middle finger of
my left hand, I slid the switch up, then turned the control dial until the
point I wanted lit up at the bottom of the viewfinder. To return to letting
the camera choose the sensor, I just clicked the selector switch back down.
>
> 5d.) I was a trifle disappointed that the exposure compensation system of
the PZ-1p is not on this camera. It's a really great feature of the PZ-1p.
Fortunately, using the exp comp dial on the MZ-S is a breeze. I was able to
do it with just my left thumb; push in the lock release and turn the dial in
the same motion. The over/under indicator off the right side of the
viewfinder stays invisible until comp is used (and, I assume, though didn't
check, when you're using metered manual), which I liked.
>
> Which brings us to
>
> 6.) The viewfinder seemed bright to me, and well placed. By that I mean
that there is almost a tunnel effect there. The viewfinder is surrounded my
a bit of black all the way around, and none of the indicators inside intrude
on the viewfinder itself. I even dug out my glasses to have a look and I was
able to see all of the viewfinder and the indicators with minimal effort. I
should note here that I =never= wear my glasses while photographing, but I
was curious how people who wear glasses all the time would see the
viewfinder.
>
> 7.) The AF is quick and decisive. To test it, I used my FA*80-200/2.8
(keeping an eye on that focus scale window in case it decided to leap off
the lens), and it had no trouble with either the camera-selected or
user-selected sensors. I got it 

RE: yet another MZ-S first look

[Dennis Klimovich]

Sorry, usual here mistake - not change address of message.
It should be private...
My apologies to Doug and ALL.
Den
-
This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List.  To unsubscribe,
go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to
visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .

RE: yet another MZ-S first look

[Dennis Klimovich]

Dear Doug.
Is it possible to add your message to our collection of
'MZ-S impressions"?
I mean two messages from PDMLers (Cesar and Ed) now in our
"News" list
.
This reviews are visited very well - because many people
want to know more about this body but doesn't have access
and/or PDML subscription Your message will add some very
interesting details IMHO...
Den
__
The Penta Magazine - online photo magazine
www.mtu-net.ru/penta; [EMAIL PROTECTED]

-
This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List.  To unsubscribe,
go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to
visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .

yet another MZ-S first look

[Doug Brewer]

Spent a couple of hours examining the MZ-S this afternoon, and thought I'd share a few 
impressions with you. First, here's Ed Sullivan: "Tonight we have a rilly big shoe."

Thank you, thank you. Now, on to the camera. Some points in no particular order.

1.) It's =small=. Sure, I read the specs, but I was still surprised. To put the 
features this camera has into a package this small, those guys at Pentax did their 
homework. I can see that I would need to have the battery pack/grip attached 
semi-permanently, to have a good grip on it. For reference, I have the grip strap on 
my PZ-1p and a winder on my LX because they improve the holdability for me.

2.) It was also lighter than I expected, and yet...

3.) It is well put together. I was especially impressed with the way the back fits to 
the body. There are a series of ridges-- I believe there are two on the body and one 
on the door, but I may have that backwards-- that go together to form a seal. The one 
ridge fits between the two. Very well done. I also noticed a foam square around the 
inside of the film window. That could be a common thing on cameras, but I don't recall 
ever seeing it before. The magnesium shell feels solid. I squeezed it and there was no 
give whatsoever. It feels like it should be around for a while.

4.) For Alan Chan, I examined the finder window and, for the life of me, I couldn't 
determine if it was glass or plastic. My money is on glass, though. It's that kind of 
camera. 

5.) Okay, the controls. It took me all of five or ten seconds to get the feel of total 
control. To leave it in program mode, set the lens to A (if the lens has the A 
setting). To move to Av priority, take it off of A. Then, if you want to go to full 
manual, shift the shutter speed by turning the dial. If the lens is still set at a 
preferred f/stop, you can go back to Av priority by touching the green button on the 
front. To run in Tv priority, just leave the lens on A and turn the dial to select 
your shutter speed. It's incredibly simple.

5a.) The Hold button seems to be a mystery around here. It's for the shutter speed.  
If you set a shutter speed you want to stay with, you just use the hold button. If you 
then turn the control dial, the shutter speed doesn't change and "HOLD" flashes on the 
LCD. I forgot to check if there's is also on indication on the viewfinder.

5b.) The DOF preview is right there at your index finger. Way cool. You just put your 
finger on it and sort of pull it. It's more like a little slide action. For those of 
you, like me, who are accustomed to =pushing= DOF previews, this takes a little 
getting used to. I must have turned the camera off five times trying to activate the 
DOF preview. Once I got the hang of it, though, I thought it was pretty cool.

5c.) Selecting the AF points is simple as well. Using the middle finger of my left 
hand, I slid the switch up, then turned the control dial until the point I wanted lit 
up at the bottom of the viewfinder. To return to letting the camera choose the sensor, 
I just clicked the selector switch back down.

5d.) I was a trifle disappointed that the exposure compensation system of the PZ-1p is 
not on this camera. It's a really great feature of the PZ-1p. Fortunately, using the 
exp comp dial on the MZ-S is a breeze. I was able to do it with just my left thumb; 
push in the lock release and turn the dial in the same motion. The over/under 
indicator off the right side of the viewfinder stays invisible until comp is used 
(and, I assume, though didn't check, when you're using metered manual), which I liked.

Which brings us to

6.) The viewfinder seemed bright to me, and well placed. By that I mean that there is 
almost a tunnel effect there. The viewfinder is surrounded my a bit of black all the 
way around, and none of the indicators inside intrude on the viewfinder itself. I even 
dug out my glasses to have a look and I was able to see all of the viewfinder and the 
indicators with minimal effort. I should note here that I =never= wear my glasses 
while photographing, but I was curious how people who wear glasses all the time would 
see the viewfinder. 

7.) The AF is quick and decisive. To test it, I used my FA*80-200/2.8 (keeping an eye 
on that focus scale window in case it decided to leap off the lens), and it had no 
trouble with either the camera-selected or user-selected sensors. I got it to hunt, 
but really, it was a tough scene, some thin branches with a brightly colored BP 
station in the background, and I was using a single sensor. To be fair, since not 
everybody has a 80-200/2.8, I also mounted the new 24-90 on there and pointed it 
around the place. Though the viewfinder was noticeably darker, the camera seemed to 
handle it just fine.

8.) The AF button on the back (this could be numbered 5e, if you're scoring at home, 
or even if you're by yourself) is a nice touch. I'd have to really work with it for a 
while to be comfortable using it, as I'm accustom