Re: OT: Neutral countries (was: Re: December PUG)
Are not the Palestinian terrorists. with Arafat's tacic blessing, killing innocents? Carlos Royo wrote: The Israeli government don't deserve any support because they are killing innocents, like they have been doing for decades. -- Daniel J. Matyola mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Stanley, Powers Matyola mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Suite203, 1170 US Highway 22 East http://danmatyola.com Bridgewater, NJ 08807 (908)725-3322 fax: (908)707-0399 - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: OT: Neutral countries (was: Re: December PUG)
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 10:42 AM Subject: Re: OT: Neutral countries (was: Re: December PUG) In a message dated 12/6/01 8:26:45 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Are not the Palestinian terrorists. with Arafat's tacic blessing, killing innocents? Yes. But Israel retaliates not in kind, but by overreacting. A Palestinian blows up a bus, Israel blows up a village. Hardly fair. And not very likely to stop the Palestinians. The thing that really kills me is that this policy has not worked at all. There are more bombings, and there are more reprisials. At some point, somebody will have to try a different approach. How long will it take all parties involved to admit that they aren't interested in peace, they're interested in getting even? Isaac Of course we shouldn't talk about terrorism without mentioning Northern Ireland... or Bosnia, or former USSR provinces, can we? Carlos Royo wrote: The Israeli government don't deserve any support because they are killing innocents, like they have been doing for decades. -- Daniel J. Matyola Mafud [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org . - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: OT: Neutral countries (was: Re: December PUG)
Gianfranco: I was not intending to say that I think Italia is a neutral country, but that some now would like to remain neutral in the War against terrorism, and let it be an American problem. Certainly, Italia was NOT netral in WWII. It was a leader of the Fascist bloc, and took aggreesive action against an African nation that could not defend itself. Many Americans died liberating Italia. How may Italians would try to assist Americans, or Bosnians, or Israelis, today? You were indeed one of the two I expected to hear from when I scanned my flag for the PUG, because of your comments about the US after 9-11. Gianfranco Irlanda wrote: I'd prefer avoiding to say that, but you should study the recent Italian history better... As Frank kindly pointed out, most Italians remember well the WWII time. My mother was born in 1927 and has suffered from bombing in Naples from any belligerent, including Americans and Germans. In spite of that, she still has good memories of both... In most recent times, from the seventies till the nineties, we had hundreds of people killed by terrorists in many ways (I won't argue what kind of terrorists they were and what they sought - too complicated). That's due probably (more than just 'probably') to the fact that Italy is not a neutral country at all. I'm sad for all the Italians who suffered because of WWII, but remember that Italia helped start that war. My Uncle died in Europe to help Europeans end a war the US did not start or ask for. -- Daniel J. Matyola mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Stanley, Powers Matyola mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Suite203, 1170 US Highway 22 East http://danmatyola.com Bridgewater, NJ 08807 (908)725-3322 fax: (908)707-0399 - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: OT: Neutral countries (was: Re: December PUG)
Daniel J. Matyola [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Gianfranco: I was not intending to say that I think Italia is a neutral country, but that some now would like to remain neutral in the War against terrorism, and let it be an American problem. Hi Dan, I hope I can express with accuracy what I could explain with a certain difficulty even in Italian... As you probably already know, governments and the normal citizens are two different entities, even when the citizens elect their governments. About the American problem, there has been a real race to jump in the first rank of countries helping the US in the war. I'm not very acknowledged about your Constitution, but ours states clearly that Italy refuses war... our actual government is doing its best efforts to go against what is written in the Italian Constitution, written after the WWII by all the political groups that was outlawed by the Fascism. Certainly, Italia was NOT netral in WWII. It was a leader of the Fascist bloc, and took aggreesive action against an African nation that could not defend itself. Many Americans died liberating Italia. How may Italians would try to assist Americans, or Bosnians, or Israelis, today? You were indeed one of the two I expected to hear from when I scanned my flag for the PUG, because of your comments about the US after 9-11. I don't know how many, I didn't ask everybody... VBG You say something I'm not really sure I understand: you were trying to provoke a reaction with your submission? I'm not offended by the American flag, BTW... :-) (*note* the smiley!) Seriously, what you wrote about Italy as an aggressive and imperialistic, oppressive and anti-democratic country (between the twenties and the mid-fourties) is true. After the war, and thanks to the effort of the US soldiers too, Italy returned a democratic country, one of the most pro-american countries in Europe. The Fascist Party was banned in the Constitution of the 1946. Too bad the heirs of the Fascist Party now rule the country ( :-( ) and their leader is the vice prime minister. I hope you don't feel too proud to have such an ally... I'm sad for all the Italians who suffered because of WWII, but remember that Italia helped start that war. My Uncle died in Europe to help Europeans end a war the US did not start or ask for. -- This is very unpleasant for me and for all democratic Italians. The WWII was a result of a bunch of powerthirsty people that used the militar rethoric to gain consensus in a bad economic situation for both Germany and Italy. I won't get into a psycho-social analisys of the situation of that time, but I can suggest you to read Eric Fromm's Anatomy of Human Destructiveness in which the author draws an interesting portrait of Adolf Hitler. Italia as a whole did not help to start any war. Governments start wars. People with military, organizational and most of all financial ability start the wars. People who sympathize for the above help to start the wars. People who refuses to act against the above help to start the wars. The war, you should know better than me, is a matter of money and power. It is NOT a matter of moral or ethics or even religion. Everyone that states that is a liar. Trace the money, and you'll see who is interested in wars and who is not. Ciao, Gianfranco Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping. http://shopping.yahoo.com - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
RE: OT: Neutral countries (was: Re: December PUG)
Well Daniel, you have now managed to insult an Englishman too (i.e. me)! It is well documented that Neville Chamberlain did not want to go to war because he did not want to subject the country to another war so soon after WWI. He desperately tried to avoid going to war by using every diplomatic means possible in the hope that lives could be saved. He was a man of *very* strong morals and the killing that war would have entailed was more than his conscience could bear. Perhaps this thread is a good example of why politics (as Mike J pointed out), is not a good subject for the PDML. Regards, /\/\ick... -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Daniel J. Matyola Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 12:03 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: OT: Neutral countries (was: Re: December PUG) WWII was, IMHO, caused largely by Neville Chamberlain and others who felt it was better to appease Hitler than go to war over an insignificant country like Czechoslovakia, which was one of the first democracies in Eastern Europe. I fear that the same feelings of anything is better than war and it's not our problem, since it does not (yet) directly affect our country encourages aggressors and terrorists and, in the long run, makes war not only inevitable, but more desstructive than if action had been taken earlier. Gianfranco Irlanda wrote: The war, you should know better than me, is a matter of money and power. It is NOT a matter of moral or ethics or even religion. Everyone that states that is a liar. Trace the money, and you'll see who is interested in wars and who is not. -- Daniel J. Matyola mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Stanley, Powers Matyola mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Suite203, 1170 US Highway 22 East http://danmatyola.com Bridgewater, NJ 08807 (908)725-3322 fax: (908)707-0399 - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org . - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: OT: Neutral countries (was: Re: December PUG)
As I recall, he made some rather disparaging remarks about fighting for people who lived so far away and had names that were so hard to pronounce, meaning the Czechs and Slovaks. Notice that these factors never deterred Britain from conquering far-away countries like India. He also claimed to deliver peace with honor and peace in our time. What he did was embolden Hitler to invade Poland. Politics was injected into this forum by the complaint that some PDML's actually had the nerve to photograph their country's flag for the PUG, at the time their country was suffering the effects of a great tragedy. Mick Maguire wrote: Well Daniel, you have now managed to insult an Englishman too (i.e. me)! It is well documented that Neville Chamberlain did not want to go to war because he did not want to subject the country to another war so soon after WWI. He desperately tried to avoid going to war by using every diplomatic means possible in the hope that lives could be saved. He was a man of *very* strong morals and the killing that war would have entailed was more than his conscience could bear.Perhaps this thread is a good example of why politics (as Mike J pointed out), is not a good subject for the PDML. Regards, /\/\ick... -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Daniel J. Matyola Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 12:03 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: OT: Neutral countries (was: Re: December PUG) WWII was, IMHO, caused largely by Neville Chamberlain and others who felt it was better to appease Hitler than go to war over an insignificant country like Czechoslovakia, which was one of the first democracies in Eastern Europe. I fear that the same feelings of anything is better than war and it's not our problem, since it does not (yet) directly affect our country encourages aggressors and terrorists and, in the long run, makes war not only inevitable, but more desstructive than if action had been taken earlier. Gianfranco Irlanda wrote: The war, you should know better than me, is a matter of money and power. It is NOT a matter of moral or ethics or even religion. Everyone that states that is a liar. Trace the money, and you'll see who is interested in wars and who is not. -- Daniel J. Matyola mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Stanley, Powers Matyola mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Suite203, 1170 US Highway 22 East http://danmatyola.com Bridgewater, NJ 08807 (908)725-3322 fax: (908)707-0399 - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org . - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org . -- Daniel J. Matyola mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Stanley, Powers Matyola mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Suite203, 1170 US Highway 22 East http://danmatyola.com Bridgewater, NJ 08807 (908)725-3322 fax: (908)707-0399 - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
RE: OT: Neutral countries (was: Re: December PUG)
That is all pretty well true, although hindsight is 20/20 vision of course. Chamberlain didn't have much to do with conquering India as far as I am aware, but he did allow Hitler more time and did try to play down the significance of Hitler's actions to justify not going to war. his intentions however *were* noble and the decisions were made in light of intelligence at the time. Of course if he had gone into the war earlier we could be arguing the toss over whether bloodshed could have been avoided by further diplomatic means. I am prod to be English, and even though I have more left wing views than any politician at that time I also feel very proud of what Neville Chamberlain did at that time, going against the advice of his cabinet and holding out to try and avoid taking his country into another war. how easy it would have been to go with the flow, but he didn't, he stood for what he believed in. I wasn't accusing you of bringing politics into it Daniel, just pointing out that Mike was right; when we talk politics we will never agree... Anyway, that's my lot on this, I'm fed up with OT posts so shouldn't be contributing!!! Regards, /\/\ick... -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Daniel J. Matyola Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 1:31 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: OT: Neutral countries (was: Re: December PUG) As I recall, he made some rather disparaging remarks about fighting for people who lived so far away and had names that were so hard to pronounce, meaning the Czechs and Slovaks. Notice that these factors never deterred Britain from conquering far-away countries like India. He also claimed to deliver peace with honor and peace in our time. What he did was embolden Hitler to invade Poland. Politics was injected into this forum by the complaint that some PDML's actually had the nerve to photograph their country's flag for the PUG, at the time their country was suffering the effects of a great tragedy. Mick Maguire wrote: Well Daniel, you have now managed to insult an Englishman too (i.e. me)! It is well documented that Neville Chamberlain did not want to go to war because he did not want to subject the country to another war so soon after WWI. He desperately tried to avoid going to war by using every diplomatic means possible in the hope that lives could be saved. He was a man of *very* strong morals and the killing that war would have entailed was more than his conscience could bear.Perhaps this thread is a good example of why politics (as Mike J pointed out), is not a good subject for the PDML. Regards, /\/\ick... -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Daniel J. Matyola Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 12:03 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: OT: Neutral countries (was: Re: December PUG) WWII was, IMHO, caused largely by Neville Chamberlain and others who felt it was better to appease Hitler than go to war over an insignificant country like Czechoslovakia, which was one of the first democracies in Eastern Europe. I fear that the same feelings of anything is better than war and it's not our problem, since it does not (yet) directly affect our country encourages aggressors and terrorists and, in the long run, makes war not only inevitable, but more desstructive than if action had been taken earlier. Gianfranco Irlanda wrote: The war, you should know better than me, is a matter of money and power. It is NOT a matter of moral or ethics or even religion. Everyone that states that is a liar. Trace the money, and you'll see who is interested in wars and who is not. -- Daniel J. Matyola mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Stanley, Powers Matyola mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Suite203, 1170 US Highway 22 East http://danmatyola.com Bridgewater, NJ 08807 (908)725-3322 fax: (908)707-0399 - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org . - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org . -- Daniel J. Matyola mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Stanley, Powers Matyola mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Suite203, 1170 US Highway 22 East http://danmatyola.com Bridgewater, NJ 08807 (908)725-3322 fax: (908)707-0399 - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org . - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http
Re: OT: Neutral countries (was: Re: December PUG)
On Wednesday, December 5, 2001, at 01:31 PM, Daniel J. Matyola wrote: Politics was injected into this forum by the complaint that some PDML's actually had the nerve to photograph their country's flag for the PUG, at the time their country was suffering the effects of a great tragedy. I think you have read far more into Albano's comments than were actually there. The quote is Too much stripes and stars this month to my taste, but I suppose it's allowed by the moment the equinox happened. I think you're fighting a fight that isn't there, Daniel. -Aaron - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: OT: Neutral countries (was: Re: December PUG)
Noble intensions often produce unfortunate results. I really believe that the British monachy believed that it was acting on such noble intensions when it conquered much of Asia and Africa to carry out the white man's burden of civilizing the heathens. Some of those heathens, like Gandhi, may have had a better conception of what was truely noble. Anyway, I can't feel Chamberlain was being noble in tossing Czechoslovakia to the Nazi lions, after England and France had made so many promises since 1919 to defend the sovereinty of Czechoslovakia, Poland and other Eastern European democracies. Mick Maguire wrote: Chamberlain didn't have much to do with conquering India as far as I am aware, but he did allow Hitler more time and did try to play down the significance of Hitler's actions to justify not going to war. his intentions however *were* noble and the decisions were made in light of intelligence at the time. I am prod to be English, and even though I have more left wing views than any politician at that time I also feel very proud of what Neville Chamberlain did at that time, going against the advice of his cabinet and holding out to try and avoid taking his country into another war. -- Daniel J. Matyola mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Stanley, Powers Matyola mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Suite203, 1170 US Highway 22 East http://danmatyola.com Bridgewater, NJ 08807 (908)725-3322 fax: (908)707-0399 - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: OT: Neutral countries (was: Re: December PUG)
Thus far, you have all proved that history can be interpreted. At least you have a topic that says delete me written all over it. Ed M. In a message dated 12/5/2001 2:53:47 PM US Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Noble intensions often produce unfortunate results. I really believe that the British monachy believed that it was acting on such noble intensions when it conquered much of Asia and Africa to carry out the white man's burden of civilizing the heathens. Some of those heathens, like Gandhi, may have had a better conception of what was truely noble. Anyway, I can't feel Chamberlain was being noble in tossing Czechoslovakia to the Nazi lions, after England and France had made so many promises since 1919 to defend the sovereinty of Czechoslovakia, Poland and other Eastern European democracies. Mick Maguire wrote: Chamberlain didn't have much to do with conquering India as far as I am aware, but he did allow Hitler more time and did try to play down the significance of Hitler's actions to justify not going to war. his intentions however *were* noble and the decisions were made in light of intelligence at the time. I am prod to be English, and even though I have more left wing views than any politician at that time I also feel very proud of what Neville Chamberlain did at that time, going against the advice of his cabinet and holding out to try and avoid taking his country into another war. -- Daniel J. Matyola mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Stanley, Powers Matyola mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Suite203, 1170 US Highway 22 East http://danmatyola.com Bridgewater, NJ 08807 (908)725-3322 fax: (908)707-0399 - - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: OT: Neutral countries (was: Re: December PUG)
Daniel J. Matyola wrote: Certainly, Italia was NOT netral in WWII. It was a leader of the Fascist bloc, and took aggreesive action against an African nation that could not defend itself. Many Americans died liberating Italia. How may Italians would try to assist Americans, or Bosnians, or Israelis, today? Hello Daniel: Firstly, the Italian government is actively supporting what the media call War against terrorism. They have said they're ready to send their ships and soldiers, and in fact they've already done it. Secondly, the Italian army has been present for years with the rest of NATO forces in Bosnia and Kosovo, as a part of the multinational effort to keep peace there. Thirdly, I am getting tired of those political OT messages we are seeing here in the PDML lately. And, as a sidenote, assisting the Israelis would not be exactly like battling terrorism, it would be more alike to helping the Nazi forces which destroyed the Jew ghetto in Warsaw in WWII. By the way, I am not an Italian, but I live in a country (Spain) which has lived with terrorism since the late sixties (more than one thousand people have died so far), and since then, we have received little or none international help or understanding in our fight against terrorist groups like ETA. And now, don't tell me I am anti-american. That's nonsense. But I won't eat everything the propaganda machinery wants us to swallow. -- Carlos Royo [EMAIL PROTECTED] Zaragoza (Aragon) - Spain -- - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: OT: Neutral countries (was: Re: December PUG)
Spain also supported Hitler for a while, and then remained neutral while he ran through most of Europe, killing millions of Jews, Slavs, Gypsies, gays and leftists. If I read the news reports correctly, most of the terrorism is Spain is domestic strife, unlike the internalional terrorist organizations that killed, more that 4,000 in one day in New York. By the way, many of those killed were foreign nationals, including quite a few muslims, When you say that assisting the Israelis would not be exactly like battling terrorism, it would be more alike to helping the Nazi forces which destroyed the Jew ghetto in Warsaw in WWII., you are, in effect, incouraging the terrorists who pledge to kill Jews just because they are Jews. Carlos Royo wrote: Daniel J. Matyola wrote: Certainly, Italia was NOT netral in WWII. It was a leader of the Fascist bloc, and took aggreesive action against an African nation that could not defend itself. Many Americans died liberating Italia. How may Italians would try to assist Americans, or Bosnians, or Israelis, today? Hello Daniel: Firstly, the Italian government is actively supporting what the media call War against terrorism. They have said they're ready to send their ships and soldiers, and in fact they've already done it. Secondly, the Italian army has been present for years with the rest of NATO forces in Bosnia and Kosovo, as a part of the multinational effort to keep peace there. Thirdly, I am getting tired of those political OT messages we are seeing here in the PDML lately. And, as a sidenote, assisting the Israelis would not be exactly like battling terrorism, it would be more alike to helping the Nazi forces which destroyed the Jew ghetto in Warsaw in WWII. By the way, I am not an Italian, but I live in a country (Spain) which has lived with terrorism since the late sixties (more than one thousand people have died so far), and since then, we have received little or none international help or understanding in our fight against terrorist groups like ETA. And now, don't tell me I am anti-american. That's nonsense. But I won't eat everything the propaganda machinery wants us to swallow. -- Carlos Royo [EMAIL PROTECTED] Zaragoza (Aragon) - Spain -- - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org . -- Daniel J. Matyola mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Stanley, Powers Matyola mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Suite203, 1170 US Highway 22 East http://danmatyola.com Bridgewater, NJ 08807 (908)725-3322 fax: (908)707-0399 - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
OT: Neutral countries (was: Re: December PUG)
Hi Dan, I'd prefer avoiding to say that, but you should study the recent Italian history better... As Frank kindly pointed out, most Italians remember well the WWII time. My mother was born in 1927 and has suffered from bombing in Naples from any belligerent, including Americans and Germans. In spite of that, she still has good memories of both... In most recent times, from the seventies till the nineties, we had hundreds of people killed by terrorists in many ways (I won't argue what kind of terrorists they were and what they sought - too complicated). That's due probably (more than just 'probably') to the fact that Italy is not a neutral country at all. Gianfranco Daniel J. Matyola [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Deal with it! I was actually hoping to get a rise out of our Anti-American friends on the list. Those of us who live where we frequently pass a view of the New York City skyline are still deeply affected by the World Trade Center disaster, and it continues to affect our daily lives. I just pray that those of you in neutral countries, like in Italia and Scandanavia, never have to deal with something like that. Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping. http://shopping.yahoo.com - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
