Re: OT - contest requires waiving moral rights: reasonable?
Bruce Walker bruce.wal...@gmail.com wrote: The City of Toronto is holding a photography contest via Flickr [*]. They plan to use winning pictures in official city business. I did a double-take at this clause in the agreement [**]: - You waive all moral rights in any of your winning photos and photos that receive honourable mention. Is that a reasonable condition (or even legal) ? Probably legal and pretty much standard, these days. I used to get all upset about intellectual property rights but I am beginning to think it's an outdated concept. If you produce something and place it in the public domain, no matter what conditions you assign, it _will_ (without a shadow of a doubt) be plagiarised, stolen, copied or otherwise used by individuals without acknowledgement. If you wish to retain your rights you have to follow up any small theft or you could be accused of allowing your rights to cede by not defending them. Is it worth the effort for you? -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - contest requires waiving moral rights: reasonable?
On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 8:51 PM, Bruce Walker bruce.wal...@gmail.com wrote: The City of Toronto is holding a photography contest via Flickr [*]. They plan to use winning pictures in official city business. I did a double-take at this clause in the agreement [**]: - You waive all moral rights in any of your winning photos and photos that receive honourable mention. Is that a reasonable condition (or even legal) ? I don't know if it's legal or not (probably is) but I saw that clause, too, and I'm not entering the contest because of it - oh yeah, I'm also not entering the contest because I'm opposed to photography contests generally, but that's another story for another day. All these guys want is, for the tiny prize that they're giving out, the right to use your photo whenever and wherever they want without paying you. Screw them. cheers, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - contest requires waiving moral rights: reasonable?
If you won't allow them to use your photo in a campaign against [place your fave, immoral behavior here], don't accept. Can't say it's legal, but I think they just don't want you telling the world about the real meaning of your photo, and how they misundertood your creation. LF Bruce Walker escreveu: The City of Toronto is holding a photography contest via Flickr [*]. They plan to use winning pictures in official city business. I did a double-take at this clause in the agreement [**]: - You waive all moral rights in any of your winning photos and photos that receive honourable mention. Is that a reasonable condition (or even legal) ? -bmw -- * http://www.flickr.com/groups/torontophotocontest/ http://www.toronto.ca/photocontest/ ** http://www.flickr.com/groups_join.gne?id=1048...@n24 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Luiz Felipe luiz.felipe at techmit.com.br http://techmit.com.br/luizfelipe/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - contest requires waiving moral rights: reasonable?
Bob W wrote: The City of Toronto is holding a photography contest via Flickr [*]. They plan to use winning pictures in official city business. I did a double-take at this clause in the agreement [**]: - You waive all moral rights in any of your winning photos and photos that receive honourable mention. There are probably other parts of the terms which give them the right to reuse the pictures for their own purposes. It is not the same as waiving copyright, and doesn't allow them to sell your work on. Bob Ah, that's (ie copyright) an important point. Thanks, Bob. I hadn't encountered the phrase before and was unsure of it. -bmw -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - contest requires waiving moral rights: reasonable?
frank theriault wrote: On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 8:51 PM, Bruce Walker bruce.wal...@gmail.com wrote: The City of Toronto is holding a photography contest via Flickr [*]. They plan to use winning pictures in official city business. I did a double-take at this clause in the agreement [**]: - You waive all moral rights in any of your winning photos and photos that receive honourable mention. Is that a reasonable condition (or even legal) ? I don't know if it's legal or not (probably is) but I saw that clause, too, and I'm not entering the contest because of it - oh yeah, I'm also not entering the contest because I'm opposed to photography contests generally, but that's another story for another day. All these guys want is, for the tiny prize that they're giving out, the right to use your photo whenever and wherever they want without paying you. Screw them. cheers, frank I'm 100% with you there, Frank. You've nailed it: the value proposition stinks. I'm guessing that they will just end up with lots of PS shots, and that's all they deserve -- if that. After all, if I'm going to donate my time and energy the least I should get out of it is attribution. Thanks Frank, and to everyone who opined. Really interesting issue to think about. -bmw -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - contest requires waiving moral rights: reasonable?
I was going to send in photos when the LCBO had a photo contest a year or so ago, and that was in the terms as well. I sent nothing in. Dave On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 8:51 PM, Bruce Walker bruce.wal...@gmail.com wrote: The City of Toronto is holding a photography contest via Flickr [*]. They plan to use winning pictures in official city business. I did a double-take at this clause in the agreement [**]: - You waive all moral rights in any of your winning photos and photos that receive honourable mention. Is that a reasonable condition (or even legal) ? -bmw -- * http://www.flickr.com/groups/torontophotocontest/ http://www.toronto.ca/photocontest/ ** http://www.flickr.com/groups_join.gne?id=1048...@n24 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Documenting Life in Rural Ontario. www.caughtinmotion.com http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/ York Region, Ontario, Canada -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: OT - contest requires waiving moral rights: reasonable?
I think people are over-reacting to this. I don't see anything sinister in it, presented as is. There may be other parts of the contract we haven't seen which are sinister, but this is really nothing. They're just trawling for some publicity shots to use, and the clause doesn't give them anything more than the right to use your photos in their own material without crediting you, and without you being able to object if you don't like the way they use them. Bob I was going to send in photos when the LCBO had a photo contest a year or so ago, and that was in the terms as well. I sent nothing in. Dave On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 8:51 PM, Bruce Walker bruce.wal...@gmail.com wrote: The City of Toronto is holding a photography contest via Flickr [*]. They plan to use winning pictures in official city business. I did a double-take at this clause in the agreement [**]: - You waive all moral rights in any of your winning photos and photos that receive honourable mention. Is that a reasonable condition (or even legal) ? -bmw -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
OT - contest requires waiving moral rights: reasonable?
The City of Toronto is holding a photography contest via Flickr [*]. They plan to use winning pictures in official city business. I did a double-take at this clause in the agreement [**]: - You waive all moral rights in any of your winning photos and photos that receive honourable mention. Is that a reasonable condition (or even legal) ? -bmw -- * http://www.flickr.com/groups/torontophotocontest/ http://www.toronto.ca/photocontest/ ** http://www.flickr.com/groups_join.gne?id=1048...@n24 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - contest requires waiving moral rights: reasonable?
On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 8:51 PM, Bruce Walker bruce.wal...@gmail.com wrote: The City of Toronto is holding a photography contest via Flickr [*]. They plan to use winning pictures in official city business. I did a double-take at this clause in the agreement [**]: - You waive all moral rights in any of your winning photos and photos that receive honourable mention. Is that a reasonable condition (or even legal) ? -bmw It's the result of a situation a few years ago where the original artist of an installation in the Eaton Centre (the Geese) had a world-class snit-fit after they got decorated for the holidays. Dunno if its legal. -- M. Adam Maas http://www.mawz.ca Explorations of the City Around Us. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - contest requires waiving moral rights: reasonable?
Moral rights? In any of your photos? Sounds like it was written by a moron. I'd stay away. Paul On Apr 26, 2009, at 8:51 PM, Bruce Walker wrote: The City of Toronto is holding a photography contest via Flickr [*]. They plan to use winning pictures in official city business. I did a double-take at this clause in the agreement [**]: - You waive all moral rights in any of your winning photos and photos that receive honourable mention. Is that a reasonable condition (or even legal) ? -bmw -- * http://www.flickr.com/groups/torontophotocontest/ http://www.toronto.ca/photocontest/ ** http://www.flickr.com/groups_join.gne?id=1048...@n24 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - contest requires waiving moral rights: reasonable?
On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 08:51:09PM -0400, Bruce Walker scripsit: The City of Toronto is holding a photography contest via Flickr [*]. They plan to use winning pictures in official city business. I did a double-take at this clause in the agreement [**]: - You waive all moral rights in any of your winning photos and photos that receive honourable mention. Is that a reasonable condition (or even legal) ? It's legal. It's quite common in work-for-hire creative (in quotes because it shows up in contracts for programming and technical writing and so forth) activity. Reasonable is a matter of opinion; I'd say so. It's there so that if the city decides to use part of winning entry, or your winning entry with a blue tint, or something like that, as the cover of a city publication or as transit ad, etc. you can't use your moral right as the creator to sue them for ruining your artistic vision by adding that blue tint. Since the moral right of the creator can't be assigned or licensed, unlike a copyright, you have to waive it instead. -- Graydon -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: OT - contest requires waiving moral rights: reasonable?
The City of Toronto is holding a photography contest via Flickr [*]. They plan to use winning pictures in official city business. I did a double-take at this clause in the agreement [**]: - You waive all moral rights in any of your winning photos and photos that receive honourable mention. Is that a reasonable condition (or even legal) ? I am not a lawyer, but probably. In the UK moral rights are the right to be identified as the author of the work, and to object to the derogatory treatment of the work. It's likely that in the case of the photos they want to be able to reuse them in their own literature, advertising etc. without giving you a credit, and perhaps to reuse them in ways which you might think denigrates the pictures - eg by cropping. There are probably other parts of the terms which give them the right to reuse the pictures for their own purposes. It is not the same as waiving copyright, and doesn't allow them to sell your work on. Bob -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
