Re: OT - where there's fire there is smoke :-(

[David Mann]

This just turned up in my BBC news feed today... a short video showing what's 
happening with the Anglican Cathedral in the city centre.

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-55256198

The city's Catholic cathedral is being deconstructed and rebuilt on another 
site:

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/405016/new-catholic-cathedral-part-of-500m-christchurch-development

Cheers,
Dave

> On Dec 9, 2020, at 8:22 PM, David Mann  wrote:
> 
> On Dec 9, 2020, at 6:26 AM, John  wrote:
> 
>> I wonder if they could have made the new more earthquake resistant? I'm 
>> pretty sure architects & engineers knew the principles back in the 80s.
> 
> Yes they did (spurred by the Napier earthquake in 1931*), but the earthquake 
> building standards are more about making sure the occupants can evacuate 
> safely.  I think only three of the modern buildings in the city failed that 
> standard.  Two total collapses and one where the internal stairway collapsed, 
> leaving some people stranded.  The longer-term fate of the building can be 
> considered during its design but the construction costs go up substantially, 
> so it's generally only critical facilities such as hospitals that were built 
> to remain operational.
> 
> There have been new innovations coming out such as reinforcing which is 
> designed to absorb energy and fail at a known point (rather like a fuse) 
> which can be made easily replaceable.  I've seen base isolation being used in 
> some new buildings (the technology was invented here in the 1970s, but it 
> costs money).  Keeping occupants alive while they get out is a good start, 
> but replacing an entire CBD is pretty time-consuming and expensive, nevermind 
> the disruption.
> 
> * https://teara.govt.nz/en/historic-earthquakes/page-8
> 
> Cheers,
> Dave
> 


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Re: OT - where there's fire there is smoke :-(

[David Mann]

On Dec 9, 2020, at 6:26 AM, John  wrote:

> I wonder if they could have made the new more earthquake resistant? I'm 
> pretty sure architects & engineers knew the principles back in the 80s.

Yes they did (spurred by the Napier earthquake in 1931*), but the earthquake 
building standards are more about making sure the occupants can evacuate 
safely.  I think only three of the modern buildings in the city failed that 
standard.  Two total collapses and one where the internal stairway collapsed, 
leaving some people stranded.  The longer-term fate of the building can be 
considered during its design but the construction costs go up substantially, so 
it's generally only critical facilities such as hospitals that were built to 
remain operational.

There have been new innovations coming out such as reinforcing which is 
designed to absorb energy and fail at a known point (rather like a fuse) which 
can be made easily replaceable.  I've seen base isolation being used in some 
new buildings (the technology was invented here in the 1970s, but it costs 
money).  Keeping occupants alive while they get out is a good start, but 
replacing an entire CBD is pretty time-consuming and expensive, nevermind the 
disruption.

* https://teara.govt.nz/en/historic-earthquakes/page-8

Cheers,
Dave


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Re: OT - where there's fire there is smoke :-(

[John]

They could have done a better job blending the new with the old.

I wonder if they could have made the new more earthquake resistant? I'm pretty 
sure architects & engineers knew the principles back in the 80s.


On 12/8/2020 03:06:23, David Mann wrote:

On Dec 7, 2020, at 11:07 PM, Bob Pdml  wrote:


The facade of the church looks as if it might be rescue-able. There is a
lot of ‘facadism’ going on over here where they demolish everything but the
front of the building and put something modern behind it.


There's quite a bit of that going on here after the earthquakes.

Prior to that the Clarendon Hotel was demolished and a tower block was built
behind the old facade.  It looked absolutely terrible.  It was all damaged
beyond repair by the quakes and is currently an empty site being used as a
car park.

https://canterburystories.nz/exhibitions/places-christchurch-buildings/clarendon-hotel

 Cheers, Dave






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Re: OT - where there's fire there is smoke :-(

[Bob Pdml]

On 8 Dec 2020, at 08:07, David Mann  wrote:
> 
> On Dec 7, 2020, at 11:07 PM, Bob Pdml  wrote:
> 
>> The facade of the church looks as if it might be rescue-able. There is a lot 
>> of ‘facadism’ going on over here where they demolish everything but the 
>> front of the building and put something modern behind it.
> 
> There's quite a bit of that going on here after the earthquakes.
> 
> Prior to that the Clarendon Hotel was demolished and a tower block was built 
> behind the old facade.  It looked absolutely terrible.  It was all damaged 
> beyond repair by the quakes and is currently an empty site being used as a 
> car park.
> 
> https://canterburystories.nz/exhibitions/places-christchurch-buildings/clarendon-hotel

That’s really barbaric isn’t it? 

There was talk a few years ago of doing something similar to Greenwich Market, 
building a glass and steel tower inside the old market building. Luckily for 
once good taste prevailed and they carried out a sympathetic restoration and 
improvement of the way space is used. 

There’s still a lot of talk about doing something nasty at Smithfield Market 
though.
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Re: OT - where there's fire there is smoke :-(

[David Mann]

On Dec 7, 2020, at 11:07 PM, Bob Pdml  wrote:

> The facade of the church looks as if it might be rescue-able. There is a lot 
> of ‘facadism’ going on over here where they demolish everything but the front 
> of the building and put something modern behind it.

There's quite a bit of that going on here after the earthquakes.

Prior to that the Clarendon Hotel was demolished and a tower block was built 
behind the old facade.  It looked absolutely terrible.  It was all damaged 
beyond repair by the quakes and is currently an empty site being used as a car 
park.

https://canterburystories.nz/exhibitions/places-christchurch-buildings/clarendon-hotel

Cheers,
Dave


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Re: OT - where there's fire there is smoke :-(

[John]

What's the context?

On 12/7/2020 09:08:02, Bob Pdml wrote:



On 7 Dec 2020, at 11:20, Alan C  wrote:

Remember this one?

Facade preservation | Alan Cole | Flickr 



Indeed I do. I looked for one of my own photos but couldn’t find it.




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Re: OT - where there's fire there is smoke :-(

[Daniel J. Matyola]

WOW!  That's quite a blaze.

I am familiar with the church, and I thought of you when I saws the news
last night.  Another tragedy for New York.

I'm sorry that you have to deal with smoke and odor, but I am quite glad
you are safe and well.

Take care, Dan


Dan Matyola
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*



On Sun, Dec 6, 2020 at 5:37 PM ann sanfedele  wrote:

> IN brief the fire that burned down the historic church and two other
> buildings that you MAY have read about or seen on line is less than a
> block from my apt.
>
> these vids and snaps from the Gothamist tell the story.  my apartment is
> smokey now and is the worst in my office  .. it wasn't yesterday..
>
> a mini-taste of what you west coasters have been dealing with... fire
> dept guys sure ours was arson..the official word being "still
> investigating"
>
>
>
> https://gothamist.com/news/five-alarm-fire-destroys-128-year-east-village-church
>
> No one was died, a few injuries.. the bell and the congregation are
> older than the church building by a lot..
>
> well it is 2020
>
> ann
>
> --
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> https://annsan.smugmug.com
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>
>
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Re: OT - where there's fire there is smoke :-(

[Bob Pdml]

> On 7 Dec 2020, at 11:20, Alan C  wrote:
> 
> Remember this one?
> 
> Facade preservation | Alan Cole | Flickr 
> 

Indeed I do. I looked for one of my own photos but couldn’t find it.
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Re: OT - where there's fire there is smoke :-(

[ann sanfedele]

Thanks for everyone's concerns... Bob, the smokiness is very little .. 
I'm just extra sensitive to it .. and it already has gone.. certainly 
doesn't require cleaning...

(well,could use some cleaning all the time but  not because of smoke ;-) )

RIght now if I go right up to the window and sniff it is at the level 
where I think hmm is there a fire somewhere?  but it isn't windy right 
now either.
The masks that are required for the virus are helpful outside with the 
lingering smokiness on the street..


Sorry not to be commenting on Peso's and bantering - too much going on here

ann

On 12/7/2020 5:07 AM, Bob Pdml wrote:

I hope you get the smokiness out of your apartment quickly. Will it require 
cleaning? if so is there a way for you to get help with that?

The facade of the church looks as if it might be rescue-able. There is a lot of 
‘facadism’ going on over here where they demolish everything but the front of 
the building and put something modern behind it.

On 6 Dec 2020, at 22:37, ann sanfedele  wrote:

IN brief the fire that burned down the historic church and two other buildings 
that you MAY have read about or seen on line is less than a block from my apt.

these vids and snaps from the Gothamist tell the story.  my apartment is smokey 
now and is the worst in my office  .. it wasn't yesterday..

https://gothamist.com/news/five-alarm-fire-destroys-128-year-east-village-church

No one was died, a few injuries.. the bell and the congregation are older than 
the church building by a lot..

well it is 2020


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Re: OT - where there's fire there is smoke :-(

[Alan C]

Remember this one?

Facade preservation | Alan Cole | Flickr 



Alan C

On 07-Dec-20 12:07 PM, Bob Pdml wrote:

I hope you get the smokiness out of your apartment quickly. Will it require 
cleaning? if so is there a way for you to get help with that?

The facade of the church looks as if it might be rescue-able. There is a lot of 
‘facadism’ going on over here where they demolish everything but the front of 
the building and put something modern behind it.


On 6 Dec 2020, at 22:37, ann sanfedele  wrote:
IN brief the fire that burned down the historic church and two other buildings 
that you MAY have read about or seen on line is less than a block from my apt.

these vids and snaps from the Gothamist tell the story.  my apartment is smokey 
now and is the worst in my office  .. it wasn't yesterday..

a mini-taste of what you west coasters have been dealing with... fire dept guys sure ours 
was arson..the official word being "still investigating"


https://gothamist.com/news/five-alarm-fire-destroys-128-year-east-village-church

No one was died, a few injuries.. the bell and the congregation are older than 
the church building by a lot..

well it is 2020


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Re: OT - where there's fire there is smoke :-(

[Bulent Celasun]

Good to know that you are fine.

Your message reminded me of the fact I did not yet install the
smoke alarm I got some months ago.

>well it is 2020
Let's hope its mission is not to prepare us for the 2021.

Bulent

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ann sanfedele , 7 Ara 2020 Pzt, 01:37 tarihinde şunu yazdı:
>
> IN brief the fire that burned down the historic church and two other
> buildings that you MAY have read about or seen on line is less than a
> block from my apt.
>
> these vids and snaps from the Gothamist tell the story.  my apartment is
> smokey now and is the worst in my office  .. it wasn't yesterday..
>
> a mini-taste of what you west coasters have been dealing with... fire
> dept guys sure ours was arson..the official word being "still investigating"
>
>
> https://gothamist.com/news/five-alarm-fire-destroys-128-year-east-village-church
>
> No one was died, a few injuries.. the bell and the congregation are
> older than the church building by a lot..
>
> well it is 2020
>
> ann
>
> --
> ann sanfedele photography
> https://annsan.smugmug.com
> https://www.cafepress.com/+ann-sanfedele+gifts
> https://www.lulu.com/spotlight/annsan
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>
>
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Re: OT - where there's fire there is smoke :-(

[Bob Pdml]

I hope you get the smokiness out of your apartment quickly. Will it require 
cleaning? if so is there a way for you to get help with that?

The facade of the church looks as if it might be rescue-able. There is a lot of 
‘facadism’ going on over here where they demolish everything but the front of 
the building and put something modern behind it.

> On 6 Dec 2020, at 22:37, ann sanfedele  wrote:
> IN brief the fire that burned down the historic church and two other 
> buildings that you MAY have read about or seen on line is less than a block 
> from my apt.
> 
> these vids and snaps from the Gothamist tell the story.  my apartment is 
> smokey now and is the worst in my office  .. it wasn't yesterday..
> 
> a mini-taste of what you west coasters have been dealing with... fire dept 
> guys sure ours was arson..the official word being "still investigating"
> 
> 
> https://gothamist.com/news/five-alarm-fire-destroys-128-year-east-village-church
> 
> No one was died, a few injuries.. the bell and the congregation are older 
> than the church building by a lot..
> 
> well it is 2020

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RE: OT - where there's fire there is smoke :-(

[jcoyle]

Glad you're OK Ann, hope the smoke is not affecting your breathing too much.
That fire was just two blocks from where we stayed too.


John in Brisbane



-Original Message-
From: PDML  On Behalf Of ann sanfedele
Sent: Monday, 7 December 2020 8:37 AM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
Subject: OT - where there's fire there is smoke :-(

IN brief the fire that burned down the historic church and two other 
buildings that you MAY have read about or seen on line is less than a 
block from my apt.

these vids and snaps from the Gothamist tell the story.  my apartment is 
smokey now and is the worst in my office  .. it wasn't yesterday..

a mini-taste of what you west coasters have been dealing with... fire 
dept guys sure ours was arson..the official word being "still investigating"


https://gothamist.com/news/five-alarm-fire-destroys-128-year-east-village-church

No one was died, a few injuries.. the bell and the congregation are 
older than the church building by a lot..

well it is 2020

ann

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Re: OT - where there's fire there is smoke :-(

[ann sanfedele]

On 12/6/2020 6:02 PM, Larry Colen wrote:

On Dec 6, 2020, at 2:37 PM, ann sanfedele  wrote:

IN brief the fire that burned down the historic church and two other buildings 
that you MAY have read about or seen on line is less than a block from my apt.

Just like Notre Dame, your own little taste of Paris.


a mini-taste of what you west coasters have been dealing with…
You folks are probably dealing with the period of putting out the smoldering 
bits which can be smokier than the actual fire.


Yes indeed... that's it
https://gothamist.com/news/five-alarm-fire-destroys-128-year-east-village-church 


No one was died, a few injuries.. the bell and the congregation are older than 
the church building by a lot..

I suspect you mean the congregation as an organization rather than the members 
of the congregation.

:-)

Can't slip anything by you..  Yes, the org. Middle Collegeate church


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Re: OT - where there's fire there is smoke :-(

[ann sanfedele]

No question - it was arson - but that is still in the news media, I 
think, as "under investigation"  My neighbors talk to the firemen ...
and reports from other local residents about the speed with which it 
started, etc.


smoke fading from my office now thank goodness

ann

On 12/6/2020 7:16 PM, John wrote:

I read the fire started in an abandoned building next door to the church.

That same building had an accidental electrical fire back in February. 
Might be arson or it might be another accident.



On 12/6/2020 17:37:01, ann sanfedele wrote:
IN brief the fire that burned down the historic church and two other 
buildings that you MAY have read about or seen on line is less than a 
block from my apt.


these vids and snaps from the Gothamist tell the story.  my apartment 
is smokey now and is the worst in my office  .. it wasn't yesterday..


a mini-taste of what you west coasters have been dealing with... fire 
dept guys sure ours was arson..the official word being "still 
investigating"



https://gothamist.com/news/five-alarm-fire-destroys-128-year-east-village-church 



No one was died, a few injuries.. the bell and the congregation are 
older than the church building by a lot..


well it is 2020

ann






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Re: OT - where there's fire there is smoke :-(

[John]

I read the fire started in an abandoned building next door to the church.

That same building had an accidental electrical fire back in February. Might be 
arson or it might be another accident.



On 12/6/2020 17:37:01, ann sanfedele wrote:
IN brief the fire that burned down the historic church and two other buildings 
that you MAY have read about or seen on line is less than a block from my apt.


these vids and snaps from the Gothamist tell the story.  my apartment is smokey 
now and is the worst in my office  .. it wasn't yesterday..


a mini-taste of what you west coasters have been dealing with... fire dept guys 
sure ours was arson..the official word being "still investigating"



https://gothamist.com/news/five-alarm-fire-destroys-128-year-east-village-church

No one was died, a few injuries.. the bell and the congregation are older than 
the church building by a lot..


well it is 2020

ann




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Re: OT - where there's fire there is smoke :-(

[Larry Colen]

> On Dec 6, 2020, at 2:37 PM, ann sanfedele  wrote:
> 
> IN brief the fire that burned down the historic church and two other 
> buildings that you MAY have read about or seen on line is less than a block 
> from my apt.

Just like Notre Dame, your own little taste of Paris.

> 
> these vids and snaps from the Gothamist tell the story.  my apartment is 
> smokey now and is the worst in my office  .. it wasn't yesterday..
> 
> a mini-taste of what you west coasters have been dealing with…

You folks are probably dealing with the period of putting out the smoldering 
bits which can be smokier than the actual fire.

> fire dept guys sure ours was arson..the official word being "still 
> investigating"
> 
> 
> https://gothamist.com/news/five-alarm-fire-destroys-128-year-east-village-church
> 
> No one was died, a few injuries.. the bell and the congregation are older 
> than the church building by a lot..

I suspect you mean the congregation as an organization rather than the members 
of the congregation.

:-)

> 
> well it is 2020

Let’s hope that at least in contrast 2021 is a lot better.

--
Larry Colen
l...@red4est.com




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OT - where there's fire there is smoke :-(

[ann sanfedele]

IN brief the fire that burned down the historic church and two other 
buildings that you MAY have read about or seen on line is less than a 
block from my apt.


these vids and snaps from the Gothamist tell the story.  my apartment is 
smokey now and is the worst in my office  .. it wasn't yesterday..


a mini-taste of what you west coasters have been dealing with... fire 
dept guys sure ours was arson..the official word being "still investigating"



https://gothamist.com/news/five-alarm-fire-destroys-128-year-east-village-church

No one was died, a few injuries.. the bell and the congregation are 
older than the church building by a lot..


well it is 2020

ann

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