Re: OT Lose one, win one.

2009-04-23 Thread mike wilson

 John Francis  wrote: 
> On Wed, Apr 22, 2009 at 11:49:09AM -0400, Adam Maas wrote:
> > 
> > Doubtful that Bugatti owns the richest demographic.
> > 
> > The 'Burb is beloved of oilmen and farmers. Most of whom are
> > millionaires at least on paper.
> 
> The Veyron costs around $1.4 million, so anyone buying one must
> have been a millionaire (at least before they bought the car ...).
> That's a pretty rarified demographic.
> 
> And, unlike the Suburban, it's hard to justify a Veyron as a
> business expense, so that $1.4M pretty much has to come from
> personal funds.  You need considerably more that a measly few
> million in the bank before you can justify $1.4M for a toy.

OTOH, it (allegedly) costs about £6million to make so it is a certified 
bargain.

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Re: OT Lose one, win one.

2009-04-22 Thread John Francis
On Wed, Apr 22, 2009 at 11:49:09AM -0400, Adam Maas wrote:
> 
> Doubtful that Bugatti owns the richest demographic.
> 
> The 'Burb is beloved of oilmen and farmers. Most of whom are
> millionaires at least on paper.

The Veyron costs around $1.4 million, so anyone buying one must
have been a millionaire (at least before they bought the car ...).
That's a pretty rarified demographic.

And, unlike the Suburban, it's hard to justify a Veyron as a
business expense, so that $1.4M pretty much has to come from
personal funds.  You need considerably more that a measly few
million in the bank before you can justify $1.4M for a toy.



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Re: OT Lose one, win one.

2009-04-22 Thread Adam Maas
On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 8:42 PM, John Francis  wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 04:04:54PM -0700, Larry Colen wrote:
>>
>> I will note that at one point the Chevy Suburban had the "richest
>> demographic" of any production car, because it was the most
>> comfortable vehicle that would tow a horse trailer.
>
> I'd take that with a very large dose of salt - I'd bet the demographics
> for Bentley or Rolls-Royce (or, come to that, Ferrari or Lamborghini)
> comfortably exceed that of the Suburban.
>
> The other claim is suspect, too - having ridden in both, I'd say the
> Range Rover beats a Suburban hands down when it comes to comfort, and
> can tow even a large horse trailer quite easily.
>
> Nowadays, of course, I'm pretty sure the "richest demographic" tag
> belongs to Bugatti.  Someone I know has just picked up a Veyron to
> go along with his Lamborghini, Ferrari F360, Viper, ...  I'm trying
> to persuade him I should have an afternoon with the cars to try for
> a few nice photographs (and see which ones he'd be prepared to let
> me drive :-)   I wonder if he's got a Tesla in the collection too ...
>

Doubtful that Bugatti owns the richest demographic.

The 'Burb is beloved of oilmen and farmers. Most of whom are
millionaires at least on paper. That's the real reason why its got the
richest demographic, not horse fans or similar.


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Re: OT Lose one, win one.

2009-04-22 Thread David J Brooks
On Wed, Apr 22, 2009 at 9:38 AM, Bob Sullivan  wrote:
> Good for you Dave!
> Send out a professional closure,
> get back some professional inquiries.
> Not all bad!
> Regards,  Bob S.
>
I've heard from about half of the show managers so far. I sent a nice
letter to them, and they are doing the same.:-)

Dave
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Re: OT Lose one, win one.

2009-04-22 Thread Bob Sullivan
Good for you Dave!
Send out a professional closure,
get back some professional inquiries.
Not all bad!
Regards,  Bob S.

On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 8:39 AM, David J Brooks  wrote:
> Well, i finally have my mind made up, and the emails to the show
> organizers went out Monday afternoon.
>
> I thanked them very much for letting me be a part of their shows over
> the past 8-9 years, and explained why i was giving it up. Past
> photographers just faded away, and i suppose i could have to, but
> thats not me. A hearty thanks and explanation is my way. So far the
> replies have all been swell.
>
> So, this morning i receive a call. Want's to know if i'll come out and
> shoot a Ti Kwon Dow black belt test for his kid.
>
> Yup and gave him a price.
>
> Then he asks if i'd be interested in taking photos of some of the
> pools his company biuilds for updating their web site.
>
> Yup I said, but no price, his cell phone died.
>
> So, lose one, win one.:-)
>
> Dave
>
> --
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> www.caughtinmotion.com
> http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/
> Ontario Canada
>
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Re: OT Lose one, win one.

2009-04-21 Thread Larry Colen
On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 08:42:53PM -0400, John Francis wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 04:04:54PM -0700, Larry Colen wrote:
> > 
> > I will note that at one point the Chevy Suburban had the "richest
> > demographic" of any production car, because it was the most
> > comfortable vehicle that would tow a horse trailer. 
> 
> I'd take that with a very large dose of salt - I'd bet the demographics
> for Bentley or Rolls-Royce (or, come to that, Ferrari or Lamborghini)
> comfortably exceed that of the Suburban.

I think that you and I are working with different values of
"production". Maybe I should have said mass produced.


> 
> The other claim is suspect, too - having ridden in both, I'd say the
> Range Rover beats a Suburban hands down when it comes to comfort, and
> can tow even a large horse trailer quite easily.

I don't know, in the mid to late 70's, I didn't see too many Range
Rovers that came with 454 cubic inch engines. But, technically, your
right, a range rover probably will tow even a fairly large horse
trailer. 

I suppose that the story that the Suburban of the time would beat a
Corvette 0-60 was bogus, despite the suburban having the
aforementioned 7 liter smog exempt motor, versus the mere 5.7 smogged
down liters (454 vs 350 ci) in the vette.


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Re: OT Lose one, win one.

2009-04-21 Thread Larry Colen
On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 06:18:21PM -0600, William Robb wrote:
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Larry Colen"
> Subject: Re: OT Lose one, win one.
> 

> >Although, most of the folks I know with horses, aren't at that end of
> >the financial spectrum.
> 
> I think the point more is that because of the high cost of racing cars, it 
> is something that is going to be pursued by people of means since that is 
> the demographic that can afford it, whether or not they make money at it.

On the other hand, if a car is sick, you can stick it in the garage
for a few years until you have time to make it well, and don't have to
worry about feeding it.


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Re: OT Lose one, win one.

2009-04-21 Thread Christine Aguila

Excellent new, Dave!  Way to go.  Cheers, Christine


- Original Message - 
From: "David J Brooks" 

To: "Pentax Discuss" ; "Barbara Brooks" 
Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 8:39 AM
Subject: OT Lose one, win one.



Well, i finally have my mind made up, and the emails to the show
organizers went out Monday afternoon.

I thanked them very much for letting me be a part of their shows over
the past 8-9 years, and explained why i was giving it up. Past
photographers just faded away, and i suppose i could have to, but
thats not me. A hearty thanks and explanation is my way. So far the
replies have all been swell.

So, this morning i receive a call. Want's to know if i'll come out and
shoot a Ti Kwon Dow black belt test for his kid.

Yup and gave him a price.

Then he asks if i'd be interested in taking photos of some of the
pools his company biuilds for updating their web site.

Yup I said, but no price, his cell phone died.

So, lose one, win one.:-)

Dave

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http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/
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Re: OT Lose one, win one.

2009-04-21 Thread John Francis
On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 04:04:54PM -0700, Larry Colen wrote:
> 
> I will note that at one point the Chevy Suburban had the "richest
> demographic" of any production car, because it was the most
> comfortable vehicle that would tow a horse trailer. 

I'd take that with a very large dose of salt - I'd bet the demographics
for Bentley or Rolls-Royce (or, come to that, Ferrari or Lamborghini)
comfortably exceed that of the Suburban.

The other claim is suspect, too - having ridden in both, I'd say the
Range Rover beats a Suburban hands down when it comes to comfort, and
can tow even a large horse trailer quite easily.

Nowadays, of course, I'm pretty sure the "richest demographic" tag
belongs to Bugatti.  Someone I know has just picked up a Veyron to
go along with his Lamborghini, Ferrari F360, Viper, ...  I'm trying
to persuade him I should have an afternoon with the cars to try for
a few nice photographs (and see which ones he'd be prepared to let
me drive :-)   I wonder if he's got a Tesla in the collection too ...



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Re: OT Lose one, win one.

2009-04-21 Thread William Robb


- Original Message - 
From: "Larry Colen"

Subject: Re: OT Lose one, win one.



On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 01:47:28PM -0600, William Robb wrote:


I suspect there is a lot more money flowing through the hands of
motorsports people. They have access to fairly major sponsors once they 
get

past the club racing level, and races do attract paying spectators. Auto
racing strikes me as a sport for the wealthy, every dog breeder that I 
know


When I first got my racing license, one of the first things mentioned
in the classroom session is how to make a small fortune in auto
racing: Start with a big one.

Once you have the car, for a cheap class to run, figure $400-1,000 per
race weekend, and 8-12 race weekends a year.

I think that I could mount a creditable effort of the 25 hours at
Thunderhill in a Spec Miata for under $6,000.

It isn't cheap, but it's easy to spend as much on photo gear as you
spend on low budget racing. However, there seems to be no limit as to
how much it is possible to spend on a race effot.


is what one of the more successful breeders I know calls "dog poor".
I doubt very much if the situation is different for horse enthusiasts.


I will note that at one point the Chevy Suburban had the "richest
demographic" of any production car, because it was the most
comfortable vehicle that would tow a horse trailer.

Although, most of the folks I know with horses, aren't at that end of
the financial spectrum.


I think the point more is that because of the high cost of racing cars, it 
is something that is going to be pursued by people of means since that is 
the demographic that can afford it, whether or not they make money at it.


William Robb 



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Re: OT Lose one, win one.

2009-04-21 Thread Larry Colen
On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 01:47:28PM -0600, William Robb wrote:

> I suspect there is a lot more money flowing through the hands of 
> motorsports people. They have access to fairly major sponsors once they get 
> past the club racing level, and races do attract paying spectators. Auto 
> racing strikes me as a sport for the wealthy, every dog breeder that I know 

When I first got my racing license, one of the first things mentioned
in the classroom session is how to make a small fortune in auto
racing: Start with a big one.

Once you have the car, for a cheap class to run, figure $400-1,000 per
race weekend, and 8-12 race weekends a year.

I think that I could mount a creditable effort of the 25 hours at
Thunderhill in a Spec Miata for under $6,000.

It isn't cheap, but it's easy to spend as much on photo gear as you
spend on low budget racing. However, there seems to be no limit as to
how much it is possible to spend on a race effot.

> is what one of the more successful breeders I know calls "dog poor".
> I doubt very much if the situation is different for horse enthusiasts.

I will note that at one point the Chevy Suburban had the "richest
demographic" of any production car, because it was the most
comfortable vehicle that would tow a horse trailer. 

Although, most of the folks I know with horses, aren't at that end of
the financial spectrum.

> 
> William Robb
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: OT Lose one, win one.

2009-04-21 Thread Doug Franklin

William Robb wrote:

I suspect there is a lot more money flowing through the hands of 
motorsports people. They have access to fairly major sponsors once they 
get past the club racing level, and races do attract paying spectators. 
Auto racing strikes me as a sport for the wealthy, every dog breeder 
that I know is what one of the more successful breeders I know calls 
"dog poor".


Amateur auto racing is very much a sport for the better off than 
average, but there are a lot of us at the club racing (SCCA and NASA) 
level that are "shoestring operations".  That said, there's a tremendous 
amount of money in any given amateur motor racing paddock, especially in 
sports car and vintage racing.  Most of these people have day jobs, but 
they're often corporate bigwigs, doctor/lawyer-type professionals, etc. 
 However, you have to be, or do a lot of your own work, because sponsor 
money doesn't enter into the equation in any meaningful way until you're 
nearly at the top of the sport, and even then a lot of drivers have to 
bring cash with them to get rides.



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Re: OT Lose one, win one.

2009-04-21 Thread David J Brooks
On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 2:01 PM,   wrote:
> In a message dated 4/21/2009 6:39:47 A.M.  Pacific Daylight Time,
> pentko...@gmail.com writes:
> Yup I said, but no price,  his cell phone died.
>
> So, lose one, win  one.:-)
>
> Dave
>
> ===
> Call him back. And give price.  Or wait for him to call back, he sounds
> serious and since already offered price  for photographing son, he certainly
> expects one for his business.

We know him. Its his daughter's large pony Erin was riding when she
reared over and broke Erins pelvis and hip.
I see him a lot, so we'll be in touch.:-)

Dave
>
> Cool,  Dave!
>
> Marnie aka Doe  :-)
>
> -
> We can't solve  problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we
> created them. Albert  Einstein
>
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Re: OT Lose one, win one.

2009-04-21 Thread William Robb


- Original Message - 
From: "Larry Colen"

Subject: Re: OT Lose one, win one.



I expect that there are two types of customers at these events. People
who don't have any, or many, shots of them competing, and who are
willing to pay a fair amount to get some good shots. There are also
the old timers who already have a lot of shots, but who might be
willing to pay a little bit for a "subscription".
--

With dog shows, all people care about is what their dog did that day, did it 
get points and if they won a major, will they get a picture taken with the 
judge.
The photography is purely for vanity, which isn't surprising since dog shows 
are pretty much for vanity at this point, or at least they are in North 
America where type breeding is more prevalent.
Also, contrary to what people may think, dog breeders are not gentrified 
folks who have money to burn. For the most part, breeders aren't making 
much, if any, money off their hobby. I don't know any breeders who don't 
"work off the farm" to support their kennels, which at best are a small 
money maker, at worst don't cost too much.


I suspect there is a lot more money flowing through the hands of motorsports 
people. They have access to fairly major sponsors once they get past the 
club racing level, and races do attract paying spectators. Auto racing 
strikes me as a sport for the wealthy, every dog breeder that I know is what 
one of the more successful breeders I know calls "dog poor".

I doubt very much if the situation is different for horse enthusiasts.

William Robb





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Re: OT Lose one, win one.

2009-04-21 Thread Larry Colen
On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 11:36:35AM -0400, David J Brooks wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 10:07 AM, Cotty  wrote:
> 
> >>So, lose one, win one.:-)
> >
> > Well done Dave - feels good when you finally decide on a course of
> > action. Great that you got some work straight off the back. Best of luck
> > with it.
> 
> Funny thing is, these two jobs will pay about half of what i net in a
> year at the horse shows.:-)

Over the years, I've been on the other side of event photography.  It
used to be that my friend John Blakemore would go out to SCCA events
with his Nikon F, and the next month would have a bunch of 5x7s for
sale. Actually, he'd have the last year's worth of events, sorted by
event. He'd charge soemthing like $10 per print.

I'd really only want one or two prints, but I'd offer him something
like the cost of 3 for all the shots he got of me. 

More recently, Norm Cabana would go out to NASA (National Auto Sport
Association) events, with his son etc. shooting with digital
cameras. He'd charge something like $30 for a CD of the weekend. He'd
also charge for prints.

Since I was teaching with NASA, I was there at most of the events. One
year I offered him $200 for a year's subscription. Basically, I paid
him for a few events, and I got CDs for the full year.

> 
> May have a new "side line " here.

I expect that there are two types of customers at these events. People
who don't have any, or many, shots of them competing, and who are
willing to pay a fair amount to get some good shots. There are also
the old timers who already have a lot of shots, but who might be
willing to pay a little bit for a "subscription".

With auto racing it's a bit different because for safety reasons, they
don't want a lot of people where they can get hit by cars, which
happen to be where you can get the best shots of the racing. I don't
think that the hazards to spectators are nearly as great at horse or
dog shows.

> 
> Dave
> >
> > --
> >
> >
> > Cheers,
> >  Cotty
> >
> >
> > ___/\__
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Re: OT Lose one, win one.

2009-04-21 Thread Eactivist
In a message dated 4/21/2009 6:39:47 A.M.  Pacific Daylight Time, 
pentko...@gmail.com writes:
Yup I said, but no price,  his cell phone died.

So, lose one, win  one.:-)

Dave

===
Call him back. And give price.  Or wait for him to call back, he sounds 
serious and since already offered price  for photographing son, he certainly 
expects one for his business.

Cool,  Dave!

Marnie aka Doe  :-)

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Re: OT Lose one, win one.

2009-04-21 Thread David J Brooks
On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 11:38 AM, William Robb  wrote:
>
> - Original Message - From: "David J Brooks"
>
>
>
>
> Funny thing is, these two jobs will pay about half of what i net in a
> year at the horse shows.:-)
>
>
> It's probably similar to what dog show photographers go through. Everyone
> gets one picture for themselves and then makes a copy of it for the breeder,
> the owner of the sire, one for the wall of the club, etc.
>
> William Robb

I think so Bill.
My own opinion is that between the site theft, more riders with there
own dslr's and barns having their own parent photographer, have really
hurt this type of service.
IMO i don't see ring side Pro's keeping this up in 5-6 years.

Dave
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Re: OT Lose one, win one.

2009-04-21 Thread William Robb


- Original Message - 
From: "David J Brooks"





Funny thing is, these two jobs will pay about half of what i net in a
year at the horse shows.:-)


It's probably similar to what dog show photographers go through. Everyone 
gets one picture for themselves and then makes a copy of it for the breeder, 
the owner of the sire, one for the wall of the club, etc.


William Robb 



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Re: OT Lose one, win one.

2009-04-21 Thread David J Brooks
On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 10:07 AM, Cotty  wrote:

>>So, lose one, win one.:-)
>
> Well done Dave - feels good when you finally decide on a course of
> action. Great that you got some work straight off the back. Best of luck
> with it.

Funny thing is, these two jobs will pay about half of what i net in a
year at the horse shows.:-)

May have a new "side line " here.

Dave
>
> --
>
>
> Cheers,
>  Cotty
>
>
> ___/\__
> ||   (O)  |     People, Places, Pastiche
> ||=|    http://www.cottysnaps.com
> _
>
>
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Re: OT Lose one, win one.

2009-04-21 Thread Cotty
On 21/4/09, David J Brooks, discombobulated, unleashed:

>Well, i finally have my mind made up, and the emails to the show
>organizers went out Monday afternoon.
>
>I thanked them very much for letting me be a part of their shows over
>the past 8-9 years, and explained why i was giving it up. Past
>photographers just faded away, and i suppose i could have to, but
>thats not me. A hearty thanks and explanation is my way. So far the
>replies have all been swell.
>
>So, this morning i receive a call. Want's to know if i'll come out and
>shoot a Ti Kwon Dow black belt test for his kid.
>
>Yup and gave him a price.
>
>Then he asks if i'd be interested in taking photos of some of the
>pools his company biuilds for updating their web site.
>
>Yup I said, but no price, his cell phone died.
>
>So, lose one, win one.:-)

Well done Dave - feels good when you finally decide on a course of
action. Great that you got some work straight off the back. Best of luck
with it.

--


Cheers,
  Cotty


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||   (O)  | People, Places, Pastiche
||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com
_



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OT Lose one, win one.

2009-04-21 Thread David J Brooks
Well, i finally have my mind made up, and the emails to the show
organizers went out Monday afternoon.

I thanked them very much for letting me be a part of their shows over
the past 8-9 years, and explained why i was giving it up. Past
photographers just faded away, and i suppose i could have to, but
thats not me. A hearty thanks and explanation is my way. So far the
replies have all been swell.

So, this morning i receive a call. Want's to know if i'll come out and
shoot a Ti Kwon Dow black belt test for his kid.

Yup and gave him a price.

Then he asks if i'd be interested in taking photos of some of the
pools his company biuilds for updating their web site.

Yup I said, but no price, his cell phone died.

So, lose one, win one.:-)

Dave

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www.caughtinmotion.com
http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/
Ontario Canada

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