Re: Organizing photo archives (was Re: Old Shutterbug articles)
Love that first one! .. and like the second more upon reading your post with the rhyme in it.. I thought I was going to organize even more and prune and scan for several years.. it isn't happening.. but when I was still sending stuff to stock agency back in the late 80's and early 90's I had an illumitron set-up for duping slides that produced good dupes of the chromes I found it hard to part with but was a hell of a lot of work. what I did recently jsut for an index was project a few carousels worth of slides from trips and photo them with the K-5 so I could quickly go through them to see what I felt was scan worthy.. but I'm really not up to more than that' ann On 12/1/2022 3:03 PM, Ralf R Radermacher wrote: Am 01.12.22 um 20:40 schrieb Godfrey DiGiorgi: I have my old libraries of slides and film. I scanned them all once, years ago, but scanning tools and image processing methodology has improved so dramatically since then that I might just re-scan them all. I'll review my old scans and, if they're good, that'll be the end of it. I've returned to some older scans I did a number of years ago and treated them with the current version of ON1. It's absolutely amazing what modern photo processing software can make of these old negative scans. Here are just two examples: https://www.fotocommunity.de/photo/magritte-meets-code-de-la-route-fotoralfbe/46076093 and https://www.fotocommunity.de/photo/eins-zwei-polizei-fotoralfbe/46873867 Ralf -- Ralf R. Radermacher - Köln/Cologne, Germany Blog : http://the-real-fotoralf.blogspot.com Audio : http://aporee.org/maps/projects/fotoralf Fotos : https://www.fotocommunity.de/user_photos/770012 -- %(real_name)s Pentax-Discuss Mail List To unsubscribe send an email to pdml-le...@pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- ann sanfedele photography https://annsan.smugmug.com https://www.cafepress.com/+ann-sanfedele+gifts https://www.lulu.com/spotlight/annsan https://www.createphotocalendars.com/Shop/annsanfedelecalendarsandbooks -- %(real_name)s Pentax-Discuss Mail List To unsubscribe send an email to pdml-le...@pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Organizing photo archives (was Re: Old Shutterbug articles)
A friend of mine retired with similar thoughts, tried, got too lazy. I convinced him to package up all his old slides and negs, send them to ScanCafe.com. He did, paid a good bit of money for the work, and they did a great job. Of course, his innate laziness and sloth means he now has a huge library of completely unedited, unorganized scans on his computer which he'll get a Round Tuit to deal with somewhere in the next eon. ugh. I have my old libraries of slides and film. I scanned them all once, years ago, but scanning tools and image processing methodology has improved so dramatically since then that I might just re-scan them all. I'll review my old scans and, if they're good, that'll be the end of it. Otherwise I'll make one more pass at it … the film is degrading and they'll never get any better than they are now. Once I have a format setup vetted, I can scan up to about 100 exposures per hour for any given format. Scanned, sucked into LR Classic with some keywords for organization, metadata saved to disk … I figure there's about a month's worth of work to do if I put in two/three hours a day at it. What I'll then do with the library … No idea. I have no idea who might be interested in it in the future. Maybe I should just create a compendium book with all of it in there and file a copy with the Library of Congress in case some future photo researcher wants to see what one nut case with a camera (or twenty…) did with his spare time and cash… LOL! G — No matter where you go, there you are. > On Dec 1, 2022, at 1:56 AM, Bob Pdml wrote: > > Divide and conquer! > > I retired a couple of years ago with the same intentions. After a few > half-hearted first attempts then putting everything in a cupboard for 18 > months, I now have a process I’m fairly happy with. > > Once you’re happy with your set-up you’ll probably be able to raw scan each > carousel in a couple of hours at most. Then when you’ve done the donkey work > you can concentrate on editing the best images. > >> On 1 Dec 2022, at 01:28, Rick Womer wrote: >> >> Just looking around the room, I have 22 loose-leaf notebooks filled with >> slide pages, and 9 140-slide carousels. >> >> I always told myself I’d do something about them when I retired… but in a >> year and a half nothing has happened yet. >> >> Rick >> >> >> Of course before I can do any scanning I'm going to need to get a scanner. While the high-end Epson 800 looks nice, it costs a lot more than the 600. It also gets mixed reviews. I haven't started looking around seriously yet, though - I'll get the digital/digitised stuff sorted out first before opening that can of worms. >>> >>> If I was more ambitious, I'd buy a scanner and hire a high school or >>> college student to scan my negatives, and other people's as well. >>> >>> -- >>> > -- > %(real_name)s Pentax-Discuss Mail List > To unsubscribe send an email to pdml-le...@pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- %(real_name)s Pentax-Discuss Mail List To unsubscribe send an email to pdml-le...@pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Organizing photo archives (was Re: Old Shutterbug articles)
Am 01.12.22 um 21:12 schrieb l...@red4est.com: I love the Seussian nature of the second title It's an old German counting rhyme for childrens' games. Eins zwei, Polizei, drei, vier, Grenadier, fünf, sechs, alte Hex, sieben, acht, Gute Nacht. The 'alte Hex' is an old witch. The rest should be self-explanatory. The scene shows the afternoon before a football (soccer) match between arch-rivals FC Cologne and Bayer Leverkusen. The Leverkusen fans arrived by train and were escorted to waiting trams which were driven straight and without stopping to the stadium. To avoid any contact with the local fans and to make sure that the trams arrived in one piece they were accompanied by a dozen police cars each. On the day this photo was taken, Cologne lost and at the same time dropped out of the German premier league. A number of trams had to be re-glazed afterwards... Ralf -- Ralf R. Radermacher - Köln/Cologne, Germany Blog : http://the-real-fotoralf.blogspot.com Audio : http://aporee.org/maps/projects/fotoralf Fotos : https://www.fotocommunity.de/user_photos/770012 -- %(real_name)s Pentax-Discuss Mail List To unsubscribe send an email to pdml-le...@pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Organizing photo archives (was Re: Old Shutterbug articles)
I love the Seussian nature of the second title On December 1, 2022 12:03:29 PM PST, Ralf R Radermacher wrote: >Am 01.12.22 um 20:40 schrieb Godfrey DiGiorgi: > >> I have my old libraries of slides and film. I scanned them all once, years >> ago, but scanning tools and image processing methodology has improved so >> dramatically since then that I might just re-scan them all. I'll review my >> old scans and, if they're good, that'll be the end of it. > >I've returned to some older scans I did a number of years ago and >treated them with the current version of ON1. It's absolutely amazing >what modern photo processing software can make of these old negative scans. > >Here are just two examples: > >https://www.fotocommunity.de/photo/magritte-meets-code-de-la-route-fotoralfbe/46076093 > >and > >https://www.fotocommunity.de/photo/eins-zwei-polizei-fotoralfbe/46873867 > >Ralf > >-- >Ralf R. Radermacher - Köln/Cologne, Germany >Blog : http://the-real-fotoralf.blogspot.com >Audio : http://aporee.org/maps/projects/fotoralf >Fotos : https://www.fotocommunity.de/user_photos/770012 >-- >%(real_name)s Pentax-Discuss Mail List >To unsubscribe send an email to pdml-le...@pdml.net >to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow >the directions. > -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -- %(real_name)s Pentax-Discuss Mail List To unsubscribe send an email to pdml-le...@pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Organizing photo archives (was Re: Old Shutterbug articles)
Am 01.12.22 um 20:40 schrieb Godfrey DiGiorgi: I have my old libraries of slides and film. I scanned them all once, years ago, but scanning tools and image processing methodology has improved so dramatically since then that I might just re-scan them all. I'll review my old scans and, if they're good, that'll be the end of it. I've returned to some older scans I did a number of years ago and treated them with the current version of ON1. It's absolutely amazing what modern photo processing software can make of these old negative scans. Here are just two examples: https://www.fotocommunity.de/photo/magritte-meets-code-de-la-route-fotoralfbe/46076093 and https://www.fotocommunity.de/photo/eins-zwei-polizei-fotoralfbe/46873867 Ralf -- Ralf R. Radermacher - Köln/Cologne, Germany Blog : http://the-real-fotoralf.blogspot.com Audio : http://aporee.org/maps/projects/fotoralf Fotos : https://www.fotocommunity.de/user_photos/770012 -- %(real_name)s Pentax-Discuss Mail List To unsubscribe send an email to pdml-le...@pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Organizing photo archives (was Re: Old Shutterbug articles)
A friend of mine retired with similar thoughts, tried, got too lazy. I convinced him to package up all his old slides and negs, send them to ScanCafe.com. He did, paid a good bit of money for the work, and they did a great job. Of course, his innate laziness and sloth means he now has a huge library of completely unedited, unorganized scans on his computer which he'll get a Round Tuit to deal with somewhere in the next eon. ugh. I have my old libraries of slides and film. I scanned them all once, years ago, but scanning tools and image processing methodology has improved so dramatically since then that I might just re-scan them all. I'll review my old scans and, if they're good, that'll be the end of it. Otherwise I'll make one more pass at it … the film is degrading and they'll never get any better than they are now. Once I have a format setup vetted, I can scan up to about 100 exposures per hour for any given format. Scanned, sucked into LR Classic with some keywords for organization, metadata saved to disk … I figure there's about a month's worth of work to do if I put in two/three hours a day at it. What I'll then do with the library … No idea. I have no idea who might be interested in it in the future. Maybe I should just create a compendium book with all of it in there and file a copy with the Library of Congress in case some future photo researcher wants to see what one nut case with a camera (or twenty…) did with his spare time and cash… LOL! G — No matter where you go, there you are. > On Dec 1, 2022, at 1:56 AM, Bob Pdml wrote: > > Divide and conquer! > > I retired a couple of years ago with the same intentions. After a few > half-hearted first attempts then putting everything in a cupboard for 18 > months, I now have a process I’m fairly happy with. > > Once you’re happy with your set-up you’ll probably be able to raw scan each > carousel in a couple of hours at most. Then when you’ve done the donkey work > you can concentrate on editing the best images. > >> On 1 Dec 2022, at 01:28, Rick Womer wrote: >> >> Just looking around the room, I have 22 loose-leaf notebooks filled with >> slide pages, and 9 140-slide carousels. >> >> I always told myself I’d do something about them when I retired… but in a >> year and a half nothing has happened yet. >> >> Rick >> >> >> Of course before I can do any scanning I'm going to need to get a scanner. While the high-end Epson 800 looks nice, it costs a lot more than the 600. It also gets mixed reviews. I haven't started looking around seriously yet, though - I'll get the digital/digitised stuff sorted out first before opening that can of worms. >>> >>> If I was more ambitious, I'd buy a scanner and hire a high school or >>> college student to scan my negatives, and other people's as well. >>> >>> -- >>> > -- > %(real_name)s Pentax-Discuss Mail List > To unsubscribe send an email to pdml-le...@pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- %(real_name)s Pentax-Discuss Mail List To unsubscribe send an email to pdml-le...@pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Organizing photo archives (was Re: Old Shutterbug articles)
Divide and conquer! I retired a couple of years ago with the same intentions. After a few half-hearted first attempts then putting everything in a cupboard for 18 months, I now have a process I’m fairly happy with. Once you’re happy with your set-up you’ll probably be able to raw scan each carousel in a couple of hours at most. Then when you’ve done the donkey work you can concentrate on editing the best images. > On 1 Dec 2022, at 01:28, Rick Womer wrote: > > Just looking around the room, I have 22 loose-leaf notebooks filled with > slide pages, and 9 140-slide carousels. > > I always told myself I’d do something about them when I retired… but in a > year and a half nothing has happened yet. > > Rick > > > >>> Of course before I can do any scanning I'm going to need to get a scanner. >>> While >>> the high-end Epson 800 looks nice, it costs a lot more than the 600. It >>> also gets >>> mixed reviews. I haven't started looking around seriously yet, though - >>> I'll get >>> the digital/digitised stuff sorted out first before opening that can of >>> worms. >> >> If I was more ambitious, I'd buy a scanner and hire a high school or college >> student to scan my negatives, and other people's as well. >> >> -- >> -- %(real_name)s Pentax-Discuss Mail List To unsubscribe send an email to pdml-le...@pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Organizing photo archives (was Re: Old Shutterbug articles)
Just looking around the room, I have 22 loose-leaf notebooks filled with slide pages, and 9 140-slide carousels. I always told myself I’d do something about them when I retired… but in a year and a half nothing has happened yet. Rick > On Nov 29, 2022, at 1:38 AM, Larry Colen wrote: > > > >> On Nov 28, 2022, at 9:27 PM, John Francis wrote: >> >> >> Of course before I can do any scanning I'm going to need to get a scanner. >> While >> the high-end Epson 800 looks nice, it costs a lot more than the 600. It also >> gets >> mixed reviews. I haven't started looking around seriously yet, though - >> I'll get >> the digital/digitised stuff sorted out first before opening that can of >> worms. > > If I was more ambitious, I'd buy a scanner and hire a high school or college > student to scan my negatives, and other people's as well. > > -- > Larry Colen > l...@red4est.com. sent from Mirkwood > > > -- > %(real_name)s Pentax-Discuss Mail List > To unsubscribe send an email to pdml-le...@pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- %(real_name)s Pentax-Discuss Mail List To unsubscribe send an email to pdml-le...@pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Old Shutterbug articles
You could probably scan the pages & save them as image files. Later if you needed TEXT you could use an OCR program to convert them. On 11/28/2022 4:36 PM, Stanley Halpin wrote: My brother saved stuff. My sister-in-law is a decent photographer herself, but has minimal interest in the underlying principles and technologies related to composition, lighting, film characteristics, digital sensor characteristics, the innards of various cameras, etc. So I have taken on the task of sorting his stuff and deciding what to keep myself, what she should keep for herself as a nice memory, what someone else might want, and what should just be recycled. I am going through a large stack of articles extracted from Shutterbug issues from 1992-2004. He didn’t cut out the articles, but rather just pulled the relevant pages. If anyone is interested, yours for the cost of postage: a. What seems to be a complete set of columns, both general info and Q&A sections, on Digital Photography by David Brooks, 1992-2004. [Not our David Brooks, as far as I know.] b. A series of 9-10 articles on Leica-M series cameras plus a few other miscellaneous Leica articles. I will keep a few Pentax articles, a 1991 article on computers (e.g., how many megabytes one might need to store files, and how some users were starting to adopt storage approaches that could accommodate gigabytes of data!), and other miscellany. Stan -- %(real_name)s Pentax-Discuss Mail List To unsubscribe send an email to pdml-le...@pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Vivere in aeternum aut mori conatur -- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software. www.avg.com -- %(real_name)s Pentax-Discuss Mail List To unsubscribe send an email to pdml-le...@pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Organizing photo archives (was Re: Old Shutterbug articles)
> On Nov 28, 2022, at 9:27 PM, John Francis wrote: > > > Of course before I can do any scanning I'm going to need to get a scanner. > While > the high-end Epson 800 looks nice, it costs a lot more than the 600. It also > gets > mixed reviews. I haven't started looking around seriously yet, though - I'll > get > the digital/digitised stuff sorted out first before opening that can of worms. If I was more ambitious, I'd buy a scanner and hire a high school or college student to scan my negatives, and other people's as well. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com. sent from Mirkwood -- %(real_name)s Pentax-Discuss Mail List To unsubscribe send an email to pdml-le...@pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Organizing photo archives (was Re: Old Shutterbug articles)
On Mon, Nov 28, 2022 at 08:36:19PM -0500, Stan Halpin wrote: > I wish my brother John had done more sorting and purging. But his life got > complicated by Parkinson???s etc in 2015 and he was unwilling/unable to do > much with his photo archives or other stuff after that. Physical and > cognitive decline. > With his images, my dilemma is that my sister-in-law will have a different > filter than I do. I see 30-40 interior shots of some unfurnished vacant > apartments. I would delete the whole batch. No esthetic value, no context. > But she might say ???OMG those were the two whirlwind days we spent apartment > hunting when I moved to Buda! Gotta keep those!??? So I am trying to > sort/organize by subject and time and location, then I???ll hand it back to > her to figure out what to keep. > John got his first 35mm camera in 1957. He scanned many of the images from > the 367 rolls of slide film that her shot over the years. One of the upsides > of this project for me is rediscovering scenes from my teen years, shots of > my parents back then, etc. > Stan I haven't even got round to thinking about scanning the bulk of my 35mm film & slides. I do have some scans done (from my PZ-1p or MZ-S) when I had an HP PhotoSmart scanner. Most of those were done when I was shooting part-time for Motorsport.com; I would typically shoot anywhere from 4 to 12 rolls during an event, get them developed and printed, and select a small number of frames to scan in and submit. I did this for a few years, doing as many as 12 events in a year (although usually only half that), so I've got quite a few rolls of film (or slides) to look through. Besides that, though, I've got a box containing a lot of other stuff - some from my student days (before I got my first Pentax) shot with a very basic 35mm camera, some with my film Pentaxes (SP-II, MX, ME, ME Super, Super Program, PZ-1p, MZ-S). I haven't really looked at any of that stuff for 20 years or more. I've also got some family photo albums I've inherited. No negatives - just prints. Of course before I can do any scanning I'm going to need to get a scanner. While the high-end Epson 800 looks nice, it costs a lot more than the 600. It also gets mixed reviews. I haven't started looking around seriously yet, though - I'll get the digital/digitised stuff sorted out first before opening that can of worms. -- %(real_name)s Pentax-Discuss Mail List To unsubscribe send an email to pdml-le...@pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Old Shutterbug articles
I wish my brother John had done more sorting and purging. But his life got complicated by Parkinson’s etc in 2015 and he was unwilling/unable to do much with his photo archives or other stuff after that. Physical and cognitive decline. With his images, my dilemma is that my sister-in-law will have a different filter than I do. I see 30-40 interior shots of some unfurnished vacant apartments. I would delete the whole batch. No esthetic value, no context. But she might say “OMG those were the two whirlwind days we spent apartment hunting when I moved to Buda! Gotta keep those!” So I am trying to sort/organize by subject and time and location, then I’ll hand it back to her to figure out what to keep. John got his first 35mm camera in 1957. He scanned many of the images from the 367 rolls of slide film that her shot over the years. One of the upsides of this project for me is rediscovering scenes from my teen years, shots of my parents back then, etc. Stan Sent from my iPad > On Nov 28, 2022, at 8:07 PM, John Francis wrote: > > On Mon, Nov 28, 2022 at 04:36:50PM -0500, Stanley Halpin wrote: >> I am going through a large stack of articles extracted from Shutterbug >> issues from 1992-2004. > . . . >> I will keep a few Pentax articles, a 1991 article on computers (e.g., how >> many megabytes one might need to store files, and how some users were >> starting to adopt storage approaches that could accommodate gigabytes of >> data!), and other miscellany. > > I can relate to that. > > At the moment I'm in the process of reviewing a whole lot of old image files, > etc., from my pre-digital and early (non-Pentax) days. > I've got three or four generations of backups retrieved from ever-increasing > sizes of external hard drive (100GB and up), but some of the oldest stuff > comes from machines where the internal hard drive sizes were 512MB or less. > I've narrowed down the effort to focus on maybe 400GB or so of files (maybe > 100,000 individual files in a few thousand folders). > > I know that for some folks 100,000 files isn't all that many, but I shoot at > a rather slower pace - I would estimate there are perhaps 20,000 different > images (and probably half of those are only present once, in the most recent > archive). Currently I'm just looking for duplicate copies of images, etc. - > there are going to be quite a few of those, as each of the backup snapshots > has one or more complete image collections which are, more or less, arranged > the same way from machine to machine. But that "more or less" is a > complication - quite apart from later snapshots having files that don't > appear in older snapshots, there are several cases where whole hierarchies of > files have been moved to a slightly different place. And then there are > those images which got copied off into a separate sub-project, so there are > almost-duplicates that should be kept separately as well as the original copy > ... > > One benefit of getting down to the task (which is something I've been putting > off for at least ten years...) is that I'm finding old shots that I'd totally > forgotten about, not to mention shots that I remembered, but hadn't been able > to put my hands on when I tried to locate them! > -- > %(real_name)s Pentax-Discuss Mail List > To unsubscribe send an email to pdml-le...@pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- %(real_name)s Pentax-Discuss Mail List To unsubscribe send an email to pdml-le...@pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Old Shutterbug articles
On Mon, Nov 28, 2022 at 04:36:50PM -0500, Stanley Halpin wrote: > I am going through a large stack of articles extracted from Shutterbug issues > from 1992-2004. . . . > I will keep a few Pentax articles, a 1991 article on computers (e.g., how > many megabytes one might need to store files, and how some users were > starting to adopt storage approaches that could accommodate gigabytes of > data!), and other miscellany. I can relate to that. At the moment I'm in the process of reviewing a whole lot of old image files, etc., from my pre-digital and early (non-Pentax) days. I've got three or four generations of backups retrieved from ever-increasing sizes of external hard drive (100GB and up), but some of the oldest stuff comes from machines where the internal hard drive sizes were 512MB or less. I've narrowed down the effort to focus on maybe 400GB or so of files (maybe 100,000 individual files in a few thousand folders). I know that for some folks 100,000 files isn't all that many, but I shoot at a rather slower pace - I would estimate there are perhaps 20,000 different images (and probably half of those are only present once, in the most recent archive). Currently I'm just looking for duplicate copies of images, etc. - there are going to be quite a few of those, as each of the backup snapshots has one or more complete image collections which are, more or less, arranged the same way from machine to machine. But that "more or less" is a complication - quite apart from later snapshots having files that don't appear in older snapshots, there are several cases where whole hierarchies of files have been moved to a slightly different place. And then there are those images which got copied off into a separate sub-project, so there are almost-duplicates that should be kept separately as well as the original copy ... One benefit of getting down to the task (which is something I've been putting off for at least ten years...) is that I'm finding old shots that I'd totally forgotten about, not to mention shots that I remembered, but hadn't been able to put my hands on when I tried to locate them! -- %(real_name)s Pentax-Discuss Mail List To unsubscribe send an email to pdml-le...@pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Old Shutterbug articles
My brother saved stuff. My sister-in-law is a decent photographer herself, but has minimal interest in the underlying principles and technologies related to composition, lighting, film characteristics, digital sensor characteristics, the innards of various cameras, etc. So I have taken on the task of sorting his stuff and deciding what to keep myself, what she should keep for herself as a nice memory, what someone else might want, and what should just be recycled. I am going through a large stack of articles extracted from Shutterbug issues from 1992-2004. He didn’t cut out the articles, but rather just pulled the relevant pages. If anyone is interested, yours for the cost of postage: a. What seems to be a complete set of columns, both general info and Q&A sections, on Digital Photography by David Brooks, 1992-2004. [Not our David Brooks, as far as I know.] b. A series of 9-10 articles on Leica-M series cameras plus a few other miscellaneous Leica articles. I will keep a few Pentax articles, a 1991 article on computers (e.g., how many megabytes one might need to store files, and how some users were starting to adopt storage approaches that could accommodate gigabytes of data!), and other miscellany. Stan -- %(real_name)s Pentax-Discuss Mail List To unsubscribe send an email to pdml-le...@pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
