Re: Pentax and Minolta on Life Support
Thank you. You saved me the effort of digging up the reference. I have been trying to make an effort to include references to the sources for things like this. From: Lawrence Kwan > Bruce wrote: > >Right now the US and Canada make up almost 50% of the entire world > >market for digital cameras. > I seriously doubt these numbers (can anyone check this up?). It is correct. According to IDC (International Data Corp) report for 2001, North America represents 47% of the world digital camera market. - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Pentax and Minolta on Life Support
On Sat, 15 Jun 2002, [iso-8859-1] Pål Audun Jensen wrote: > Bruce wrote: > >Right now the US and Canada make up almost 50% of the entire world > >market for digital cameras. > I seriously doubt these numbers (can anyone check this up?). It is correct. According to IDC (International Data Corp) report for 2001, North America represents 47% of the world digital camera market. -- --Lawrence Kwan--SMS Info Service/Ringtone Convertor--PGP:finger/www-- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.vex.net/~lawrence/ -Key ID:0x6D23F3C4-- - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Pentax and Minolta on Life Support
>>Right now >>the US and Canada make up almost 50% of the entire world >>market for digital cameras. > >I seriously doubt these numbers (can anyone check this up?). Not long ago >numbers were published that showed another scenario; the US were quite a >bit behind Europe and Japan as the biggest digital markets. The digital >market share in units, as opposed to value, has exceeded 50% in Japan and >certain European markets. Personally I don't think the figure is accurate too (although I have no information on that). It's hard to imagine people up here would buy all those high tech toys when most of them are still using aged cell phone (don't take it an insult pls), not to mention other grandold AV equipments. It's unlike the market in Japan, people always opt for the latest high tech toys (just check out their 2ndhand retailers and u know what I mean). regards, Alan Chan _ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Pentax and Minolta on Life Support
Bruce wrote: >Right now >the US and Canada make up almost 50% of the entire world >market for digital cameras. I seriously doubt these numbers (can anyone check this up?). Not long ago numbers were published that showed another scenario; the US were quite a bit behind Europe and Japan as the biggest digital markets. The digital market share in units, as opposed to value, has exceeded 50% in Japan and certain European markets. Pål - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Pentax and Minolta on Life Support
Those were models that neither HP or Pentax sell anymore. It would appear that their joint venture has gone the way of spats. From: "Raimo Korhonen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> But Pentax makes the H-P cameras. - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Vs: Pentax and Minolta on Life Support
But Pentax makes the H-P cameras. All the best! Raimo Personal photography homepage at http://www.uusikaupunki.fi/~raikorho -Alkuperäinen viesti- Lähettäjä: Pål Audun Jensen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Vastaanottaja: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Päivä: 14. kesäkuuta 2002 12:48 Aihe: Re: Pentax and Minolta on Life Support >Bruce wrote: > > >>Olympus, >>although strong now is relying on other manufacturers to >>produce their products and has little of their own >>technology or engineering in their cameras, although it >>is rumored that they will have a new camera with >>dedicated lenses on the market in the fall. " > > >According to the Photo Industry report: "InfoTrends reported that, based on >total unit sales in 2001, Sony remained the market leader, Olympus remained >in second place, and Hewlett-Packard and Kodak shared the third spot" >So Olympus is indeed among the market leaders. No mention of Nikon and >Canon among the top digital manufacturers. > >Pål - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
RE: Pentax and Minolta on Life Support
hear, hear - well said that man! > -Original Message- > From: Chris Brogden [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: 14 June 2002 17:04 > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: Pentax and Minolta on Life Support > > > Bruce quoted, - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Pentax and Minolta on Life Support
Bruce quoted, "Pentax and Minolta are on life support. Olympus, although strong now is relying on other manufacturers to produce their products and has little of their own technology or engineering in their cameras, although it is rumored that they will have a new camera with dedicated lenses on the market in the fall. " from http://digitaljournalist.org/issue0206/editorial.htm I hope Bruce cited this article just as food for thought, because it's too stuffed with factual inaccuracies and questionable logic to be taken seriously on the whole. First of all, the Canon logo which coincidentally appears on their front page (the only camera company to appear there, apart from HP, who powers their site) has nothing to do, I'm sure, with the Canon bias in the article, nor with the dismissive tone accorded to Nikon, Pentax, Minolta, and Olympus. I haven't seen other issues of the magazine, though, so I'll reserve judgement on that. The author quotes a store owner: "There is an enormous opportunity here for a photo manufacturer who can produce a 'kiosk' that will go into camera stores and generate revenue for printing from digital memory cards. Both Olympus and Fuji are already addressing this market." Huh? Where has be been? Those machines have been around for years. Kodak's ubiquitous kiosks have slots for PCMCIA cards, and adapters are widely available to allow digital cards to be used. We've been doing it in our family-owned store for years. Another quote from the article: "Small items such as filters used to be high-profit sales. With digital, you don't need filters any more. You can do it all in photo shop." Spoken like someone who has never worked at the retail level. Even people with digital cameras still want filters. This is probably a learned response from film cameras, but the reasons they give are pretty sound. Some want to protect the front lens element with a UV filter. Others want to use polarizers to remove refletions in windows. Not everything can be done in PhotoShop. You can do a lot of stuff in a traditional darkroom, too, but some people still prefer to do it in-camera. Weird, eh? :) "Meanwhile film prices for those that still use old-fashioned non-digital cameras are swinging erratically. According to Dick Bagdassarian the owner of Pro Photo in Washington, 'professional' films sell at twice the price of 'amateur' films." I'm speechless... are they really this stupid? How is this "swinging erratically"??? Professional films come primarily in 36exp rolls, compared to 24exp for consumer films, and they tend to be better films. 'Round these parts, they've *always* been twice as much as our cheapest amateur film. What are these guys talking about? How does the price difference between professional and amateur film prove that prices are swinging erratically? To prove their point about erratically swinging prices, this is what they say: "For example Kodak's Ektachrome E100S used for outdoor lighting sells for $7.55 per roll, while a roll of Kodak 320, used for indoor lighting sells for $12.00, and a roll of high speed 400 film sells for $14.46. Fuji has similar pricing differences." (1) These are all pro films. (2) The example they give of the doubling price is between ISO 100 and 400 professional films. So not only do they turn out to not be talking about price changes, just price differences, they don't even talk about price differences intelligently. And we're supposed to listen to what they say about retail trends? :) Sorry for venting, but I hate to see misinformation and poorly-researched, poorly-written articles like that. There are too many people out there with intelligent things to have to put up with this. There are some interesting points in the article, and I agree with some of them, but on the whole I don't find myself able to believe much of what they say about the situation. chris - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Pentax and Minolta on Life Support
I didn't write that. I only passed it along, including the reference to the full article. It was written by someone in the US, regarding the US market. Right now the US and Canada make up almost 50% of the entire world market for digital cameras. No camera company is going to be in the forefront of anything only having good sales in Northern Europe. From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?P=E5l?= Audun Jensen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Pentax and Minolta on Life Support Bruce wrote:. - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Pentax and Minolta on Life Support
Bruce wrote: >Olympus, >although strong now is relying on other manufacturers to >produce their products and has little of their own >technology or engineering in their cameras, although it >is rumored that they will have a new camera with >dedicated lenses on the market in the fall. " According to the Photo Industry report: "InfoTrends reported that, based on total unit sales in 2001, Sony remained the market leader, Olympus remained in second place, and Hewlett-Packard and Kodak shared the third spot" So Olympus is indeed among the market leaders. No mention of Nikon and Canon among the top digital manufacturers. Pål - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Pentax and Minolta on Life Support
Steven wrote: >I really don't think film will disappear anytime soon. No, it won't disappear. The are literally hundreds of millions 35mm film cameras out there and some are going to want to use them. Therefore, somebody is going to provide film for these cameras. >The interesting >question is if there will be room in the smaller market for Pentax. It might be better room. If film turns into more of a niche market then there could be made room. Also, I believe that due to digital people will get used to paying more for their cameras and hence will tolerate higher prices. Eg. I believe it could be easier to get acceptance for a $2000 35mm slr in the future than now. >In addition, smaller sales provides less R&D money, so it becomes hard >to keep up. But then you can make low volume items that command higher prices and profits. I believe the Limited lenses, and to some extent the MZ-S, are steps in this direction. >I'm not sure how diversified Pentax is, although I do know >they make medical imaging equipment, binoculars etc. I image they could >provide lenses for other companies as well. They also have certain >patents which they licence without actually producing the technology. About 50% of Pentax turnaround is photo related. This is probably the highest percentage in business among the major japanese camera manufacturers. Olympus is only 10% and Canon somewhere in the 10-20% area. However, Pentax is very much present where the money is. And that is "expensive" P & S, like the zoom compacts where they are market leader. > >Does anyone know where you can look at any financial information about >these companies? > I believe it is on their web pages somewhere. Pål - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Pentax and Minolta on Life Support
Bruce wrote: >"Pentax and Minolta are on life support. Olympus, >although strong now is relying on other manufacturers to >produce their products and has little of their own >technology or engineering in their cameras, although it >is rumored that they will have a new camera with >dedicated lenses on the market in the fall. " The above is doubtful. Minolta is indeed in deep shit. Pentax is not in such a bad position. Possible the best after Canon although they are in red. Olympus is a market leader in digital and Pentax is having great success with the Optio range; they are no. 1 in Sweden and No. 2 in Germany. It is true though that nobody is making money in digital, therefore there has been industry speculations that Nikon and Pentax will put more money into 35mm development. - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Pentax and Minolta on Life Support
I could be wrong, but I think for those developing countries, digital is still way too far away. Of course, one might have no trouble to purchase some nice equipments and print their own pictures at home. But this is applicable to the rich developed countries mainly, if not only. For the rest of the world, people are stuck with film based stuffs. Besides, if everyone were printing their own pictures, there might have been too many movements for us to live peacefully because there would have been too many people out of job. The only winners would be those giant companies, and everyone else just suffered. :( regards, Alan Chan _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
RE: Pentax and Minolta on Life Support
me too! ...never had guts to do a postdoc though. a decent apartment here costs about what the postdoc salary (after the taxes) is. and, of course, the "the scholarly squalor" was a factor too... oh well, who am i to complain now :) mishka > From: Peifer, William [OCDUS] > Subject: RE: Pentax and Minolta on Life Support > Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 12:46:15 -0700 > > By the way, nice to see a yet another fellow chemist on the list. > Lots of competition. But my > longer-than-expected postdoc at SUNY Buffalo was one of the most > rewarding and enjoyable jobs I've ever had, in spite of the scholarly > squalor. ;-) > > Take care, > > Bill Peifer > Rochester, NY Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Pentax and Minolta on Life Support
Steven, If you have a good public or college library near you try their Reference Dept. Good libraries often have a financial section with up-to-date reports in the Reference Dept. You can't check the material out, but you should be able to find what you need quite easily. And don't forget to ask the Reference Librarian for help. They're loaded with useful information! Alexander Grigolia - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
RE: Pentax and Minolta on Life Support
Steven Desjardins wrote: > Does anyone know where you can look at any financial information > about these companies? Hi Steven, Answer to your question is, "Sure -- I know a couple places!" All publicly traded companies in the US (don't know if this includes ~all~ of the major camera manufacturers) file regular reports with the SEC, and these are available on-line. (Can't remember the SEC website address -- sorry.) IIRC, these are called 10-K reports. One can obtain a considerable amount of information on such companies this way. Another place to gather information is from a company's Dunn and Bradstreet report, but I'm sure you'd need some sort of subscription to get these anywhere on-line. I believe you might be able to get a copy of such a report from a business school library or law library, perhaps at some nominal cost. Any reference librarian should know what you mean if you ask for one of these. By the way, nice to see a yet another fellow chemist on the list. I see from the WLU website that you're currently chair of the chemistry department? Glad to see that some folks are still able to succeed at academic chemistry, given today's bleak funding environment. Never was able to secure an academic post myself (analytical, experimental physical, and anything else that my CV would "fit"). Lots of competition. But my longer-than-expected postdoc at SUNY Buffalo was one of the most rewarding and enjoyable jobs I've ever had, in spite of the scholarly squalor. ;-) Take care, Bill Peifer Rochester, NY - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Pentax and Minolta on Life Support
I really don't think film will disappear anytime soon. The interesting question is if there will be room in the smaller market for Pentax. In addition, smaller sales provides less R&D money, so it becomes hard to keep up. I'm not sure how diversified Pentax is, although I do know they make medical imaging equipment, binoculars etc. I image they could provide lenses for other companies as well. They also have certain patents which they licence without actually producing the technology. Does anyone know where you can look at any financial information about these companies? Steven Desjardins Department of Chemistry Washington and Lee University Lexington, VA 24450 (540) 463-8873 FAX: (540) 463-8878 [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 06/13/02 01:45PM >>> On Thu, 13 Jun 2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > An excerpt from, THE REVOLUTION IN PHOTO MARKETING, PART > II - The Darker View, from: > http://digitaljournalist.org/issue0206/editorial.htm I, personally, like the last paragraph: "Many of these retailers see a gradual move in the future back to film. According to one, "most people don't know what the hell they are doing with those digital images. A lot of people got into it as a fad." Dick Bagdassarian, says," I have 3 children. The first child has the most pictures. The last child has the least. 20 years later you look at the photos and see the value of them. You don't want to forget the big picture. Enthusiasm with digital can be very rewarding, but it may not have the information you will want years from now. You can't go back." -- http://www.infotainment.org "The destructive character is cheerful." - Walter Benjamin - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org . - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Pentax and Minolta on Life Support
- Original Message - From: gfen Subject: Re: Pentax and Minolta on Life Support > I, personally, like the last paragraph: > > "Many of these retailers see a gradual move in the future back to film. >According to one, "most people don't know what the hell they are doing >with those digital images. A lot of people got into it as a fad." >Dick Bagdassarian, says," I have 3 children. The first child has the >most pictures. The last child has the least. 20 years later you look >at the photos and see the value of them. You don't want to forget the >big picture. Enthusiasm with digital can be very rewarding, but it may >not have the information you will want years from now. You can't go >back." We had much the same thing happen in the late 80s with consumer video cameras. For a couple of years all we sold was camcorders, and it murdered film and processing. After six months a year, the camcorder customer was back to film. William Robb - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Pentax and Minolta on Life Support
Bruce, Thanks for pointing that out. It is always interesting to hear other points of view. Gives you more perspective to sort things out. Bruce Dayton Thursday, June 13, 2002, 10:07:47 AM, you wrote: ban> An excerpt from, THE REVOLUTION IN PHOTO MARKETING, PART ban> II - The Darker View, from: ban> http://digitaljournalist.org/issue0206/editorial.htm ban> "Pentax and Minolta are on life support. Olympus, ban> although strong now is relying on other manufacturers to ban> produce their products and has little of their own ban> technology or engineering in their cameras, although it ban> is rumored that they will have a new camera with ban> dedicated lenses on the market in the fall. " ban> - ban> This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, ban> go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to ban> visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org . - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Pentax and Minolta on Life Support
Bruce tossed out for our perusal > An excerpt from, THE REVOLUTION IN PHOTO MARKETING, PART > II - The Darker View, from: ... digitaljournalist.org What else would one expect from an outfit that is riding the digital wave? Anything remotely affecting film in a negative (punny, huh?) way is surely "news" to them. Just more fodder to lure people over to the digital "darker view", IMHO. Digital will eventually meet film on terms other than the immediacy of results and speed/ease of manipulation, etc - but it will be even longer still before the entire imaging scene is "digitized" on both the source & end result fronts. The amount/cost of the peripherial equipment for quality digital is still pretty steep for all but the biggest media businesses. I know that the smaller shops certainly can't justify full digital set-up - and if they try on their operating budgets, they end up little better than a Kinko's type copy shop. The average image customer is still better off purchasing rights to a good medium format (or even 35mm) transparancy and having their 4-color print shop do the digitalization on high-end equipment. There are a few places here that flaunt digital - but none even have dedicated film scanners - let alone ability to deal w/ 120 transparancies other than old flatbed transparancy adapter machines. None even have invested in a decent inkjet printer along the lines of the set-up that Aaron has going - all using "consumer" printers and I would suspect that many PDML members actually own better systems for their personal use than these shops. They're just riding the wave and selling hula hoops to the masses. A high-rez film scan of a 6x7 transparancy will "out-pixel" any straight from camera digital file for quite some time to come - I would suspect. Don't get me wrong - digital has its uses and will become adequate for more as time goes by - but it isn't the end for quality imaging from film technology just yet. ... just my thoughts from the hinterlands of the small market Bill - Bill D. Casselberry ; Photography on the Oregon Coast http://www.orednet.org/~bcasselb [EMAIL PROTECTED] - - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Pentax and Minolta on Life Support
On Thu, 13 Jun 2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > An excerpt from, THE REVOLUTION IN PHOTO MARKETING, PART > II - The Darker View, from: > http://digitaljournalist.org/issue0206/editorial.htm I, personally, like the last paragraph: "Many of these retailers see a gradual move in the future back to film. According to one, "most people don't know what the hell they are doing with those digital images. A lot of people got into it as a fad." Dick Bagdassarian, says," I have 3 children. The first child has the most pictures. The last child has the least. 20 years later you look at the photos and see the value of them. You don't want to forget the big picture. Enthusiasm with digital can be very rewarding, but it may not have the information you will want years from now. You can't go back." -- http://www.infotainment.org "The destructive character is cheerful." - Walter Benjamin - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Pentax and Minolta on Life Support
An excerpt from, THE REVOLUTION IN PHOTO MARKETING, PART II - The Darker View, from: http://digitaljournalist.org/issue0206/editorial.htm "Pentax and Minolta are on life support. Olympus, although strong now is relying on other manufacturers to produce their products and has little of their own technology or engineering in their cameras, although it is rumored that they will have a new camera with dedicated lenses on the market in the fall. " - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
