RE: Photodisks Failing
Try going into my computer, local disk c, program files, adobe, Photoshop, plug ins, file formats, double click photo cd, it should launch Photoshop, then try reading the file. I don't know if this will work, but its worth a try. I'll ask in the Photoshop list. Butch
Re: Photodisks Failing
Photoshop CS ships with a new PhotoCD import plugin. it doesn't depend on the Kodak DLLs anymore. i'm sure that the plugin has been included with each version of Photoshop for a while now, probably since 4.0. Herb - Original Message - From: Butch Black [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2004 7:05 PM Subject: RE: Photodisks Failing Try going into my computer, local disk c, program files, adobe, Photoshop, plug ins, file formats, double click photo cd, it should launch Photoshop, then try reading the file. I don't know if this will work, but its worth a try. I'll ask in the Photoshop list.
RE: Photodisks Failing
Thanks Butch I'll try that if the GT gang doesn't have any luck. -Original Message- From: Butch Black [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2004 7:06 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Photodisks Failing Try going into my computer, local disk c, program files, adobe, Photoshop, plug ins, file formats, double click photo cd, it should launch Photoshop, then try reading the file. I don't know if this will work, but its worth a try. I'll ask in the Photoshop list. Butch
RE: Photodisks Failing
Other manufacturers of CD-Rs have made the same tests and also guarantee a lifetime of about 100 years. The bigger problem for longtime storage is the format the pics are stored on the CD. If it is a propretiary format like a Photoshop format or even jpeg it might not be readable some decades later. If you want to be on the save side, either copy a program which can read the files on the CD or use the tiff format, which is a far as possible approved to be supported by most of the readers in the future. I work for a software comany which sells archiving software and we recommend tiff or pdf as a longtime format. For my private use I copy a jpg version and a big tiff version on my CD and add irfanview as the reader program on the CD. Concerning the lifetime of slides or negatives. I found some slides which are about 45 years old. They were partly in bad shape but others had survived nicely. Also I have bw prints from 1920 (earliest) and they are in a very good shape. Just my 2 cents Adelheid -Original Message- From: Steve Jolly [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Freitag, 2. Januar 2004 22:01 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Photodisks Failing Rob Studdert wrote: If properly stored the media life should be far greater than 3-7 years. Kodak have done some pretty rigourous accelerated-aging studies on their own CDRs and came up with an estimate of 217 years average lifetime. A copy of the report is online at http://www.cd-info.com/CDIC/Technology/CD-R/Media/Kodak.html if anyone's interested. Kodak's (more conservative) official position is that under normal storage conditions, Photo CDs should last for 100 years or more. Obviously the manufacturers of cheaper media won't have data lifetime quite as high on their list of priorities - the lifetime of unbranded budget CDRs is probably nothing like that... S
RE: Photodisks Failing
Adelheid v. K.: If it is a propretiary format like a Photoshop format or even jpeg it might not be readable some decades later. If you want to be on the save side, either copy a program which can read the files on the CD or use the tiff format, which is a far as possible approved to be supported by most of the readers in the future. I'd guess that more future computers will be able to read a widely published document format, than run a program that's specific to the processor and OS you have today. I.e. both TIFF and JPEG is more safe than any viewer program. Hey, quite a number of computers can't run your viewer program even today (Mac, Linux etc). But they sure can display a TIFF or a JPEG. I work for a software comany which sells archiving software and we recommend tiff or pdf as a longtime format. PDF is proprietary, too, just like PSD. I'd go with TIFF. anders - http://anders.hultman.nu/
RE: Photodisks Failing
On 3 Jan 2004 at 11:16, Adelheid v. K. wrote: I work for a software comany which sells archiving software and we recommend tiff or pdf as a longtime format. For my private use I copy a jpg version and a big tiff version on my CD and add irfanview as the reader program on the CD. Not to be disrespectful however I've owned Acrobat through each of it's versions since it's introduction and it's about the last thing I'd have considered as a future proof electronic image storage file format. Incompatibility reigns supreme between Acrobat document and reader versions. My cards are on JPG and TIFF, PNG seems dead in the water. Cheers, Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://members.ozemail.com.au/~distudio/publications/ Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998
RE: Photodisks Failing
I agree concerning pdf, but it seems that the professionals dealing with these questions see this differently. And we have to do what our customers want. grin :) Adelheid -Original Message- From: Rob Studdert [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Samstag, 3. Januar 2004 22:44 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Photodisks Failing On 3 Jan 2004 at 11:16, Adelheid v. K. wrote: I work for a software comany which sells archiving software and we recommend tiff or pdf as a longtime format. For my private use I copy a jpg version and a big tiff version on my CD and add irfanview as the reader program on the CD. Not to be disrespectful however I've owned Acrobat through each of it's versions since it's introduction and it's about the last thing I'd have considered as a future proof electronic image storage file format. Incompatibility reigns supreme between Acrobat document and reader versions. My cards are on JPG and TIFF, PNG seems dead in the water. Cheers, Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://members.ozemail.com.au/~distudio/publications/ Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998
Re: Photodisks Failing
i consider Photoshop sufficiently likely to be in business for long enough to be extremely well documented in public. Herb - Original Message - From: Rob Studdert [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2004 4:44 PM Subject: RE: Photodisks Failing Not to be disrespectful however I've owned Acrobat through each of it's versions since it's introduction and it's about the last thing I'd have considered as a future proof electronic image storage file format. Incompatibility reigns supreme between Acrobat document and reader versions. My cards are on JPG and TIFF, PNG seems dead in the water.
RE: Photodisks Failing
At first I tried PS 7. Then I tried using Explorer to look at the disk, but I got nada. : ( Evan -Original Message- From: Butch Black [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 02, 2004 6:50 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: re: Photodisks Failing Evan What are you trying to open it with? I believe Adobe stopped supporting the Photo CD (YCC) with Photoshop 6.0, though it may have been earlier. You may be able to get a plug in or be able to get the file support from an earlier version and drop it into the file supported folder. If you find a computer or program that can open it you might want to convert the largest file of each image to tiff or psd and save them on a new disk. I believe YCC is officially defunct. Butch Each man had only one genuine vocation - to find the way to himself. Hermann Hesse (Demian)
Re: Photodisks Failing
Rob Studdert wrote: On 2 Jan 2004 at 14:04, Nick wrote: This is really scary with the move to digital only imaging. At least with film you have the original as backup, even if you do lose any post manipulations. This means that every year you'd have to copy the CDs created a couple of years previously. If properly stored the media life should be far greater than 3-7 years. I have discs produced from some of the very first commercial burners from over 10 years ago and they are still 100%. Leave your films in direct sunlight for a week or two and see how they fare. Rob Studdert Well, but, no one would leave their film in direct sunlight, Rob (I just jumped into this in the middle - so I may be missing something) I think paper and film are a lot easier to care for and handle than discs... I need them to be because I'm such a klutz. annsan
Re: Photodisks Failing
On Fri, 2 Jan 2004, Ann Sanfedele wrote: Well, but, no one would leave their film in direct sunlight, Rob (I just jumped into this in the middle - so I may be missing something) I think paper and film are a lot easier to care for and handle than discs... I need them to be because I'm such a klutz. I think the point being made was that good CDs, when properly stored, will probably last at least 10-30 years. Cheap or improperly stored CDs will degrade quicker, but using them is like storing your negs in bright sunlight... no one interested in archiving their images should do it. The merits of each side have been endlessly debated on here, but it comes down to individual preference. Negatives will last longer than a CD if left alone, but they will eventually deteriorate. They are the only original, so if anything happens to them, you're SOL. Individual CDs will not last as long as negatives, but you can make multiple copies of your originals for safety, and you can transfer them to new CDs or new media without losing quality. If you don't want the hassle of duplicating, transferring and updating your originals, and you're not looking for extreme long-term storage, then archive your images as negatives. If you don't mind the extra work of digital archiving, then you can theoretically extend the life of your photos (and the number of originals) by going that route. Either way, store your originals in location that's secure, cool and dry. People argue against digital archiving by bringing up the longevity of glass plates, daguerrotypes, dried beaver skins, etc., so feel free to go that way if you like. :) Black and white film is supposed to be much better than digital archiving because the negs last for 200 years (or pick another number). Of course, that's pure speculation, as negatives themselves have been around for barely more than a century. Digital images are supposed to last forever as long as they are transferred when necessary, although this too is just theory. There's no one right way, so just go with whatever feels more natural to you. chris
Re: Photodisks Failing
On Fri, Jan 02, 2004 at 12:42:50PM -0500, Ann Sanfedele wrote: I think paper and film are a lot easier to care for and handle than discs... I need them to be because I'm such a klutz. Despite having recently embraced an *istD, I must say this for film: One day when I'm old and gray and doddering, no matter what happens, no matter what image file formats are patented or whether the last 50 terrabit Selenium Memory Pin reader in the world gives up the ghost; worst comes to worst, I can always hold my negatives up to the light. And since it is unlikely that technology like magnifying glasses and other lenses will become obsolete, worst will not come to worst. And even if Digital should be replaced by Quantum Imaging, I can at least take a Quantum image of my negative and reverse the colours in PhotoGalaxy. -- ,_ /_) /| / / i e t e r/ |/ a g e l
Re: Photodisks Failing
On Fri, Jan 02, 2004 at 12:46:00PM -0600, Chris Brogden wrote: [snip] People argue against digital archiving by bringing up the longevity of glass plates, daguerrotypes, dried beaver skins, etc., Beaver skins? Hah! And if your CD's should fail, could you at least *wear* them in the winter, huh? :-) -- ,_ /_) /| / / i e t e r/ |/ a g e l
Re: Photodisks Failing
Rob Studdert wrote: If properly stored the media life should be far greater than 3-7 years. Kodak have done some pretty rigourous accelerated-aging studies on their own CDRs and came up with an estimate of 217 years average lifetime. A copy of the report is online at http://www.cd-info.com/CDIC/Technology/CD-R/Media/Kodak.html if anyone's interested. Kodak's (more conservative) official position is that under normal storage conditions, Photo CDs should last for 100 years or more. Obviously the manufacturers of cheaper media won't have data lifetime quite as high on their list of priorities - the lifetime of unbranded budget CDRs is probably nothing like that... S
Re: Photodisks Failing
assuming that you did a decent job of processing and washing. very big assumption for a commercial lab, even a good one. Herb - Original Message - From: Pieter Nagel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 02, 2004 1:47 PM Subject: Re: Photodisks Failing One day when I'm old and gray and doddering, no matter what happens, no matter what image file formats are patented or whether the last 50 terrabit Selenium Memory Pin reader in the world gives up the ghost; worst comes to worst, I can always hold my negatives up to the light.
Re: Photodisks Failing
On 2 Jan 2004 at 20:47, Pieter Nagel wrote: And even if Digital should be replaced by Quantum Imaging, I can at least take a Quantum image of my negative and reverse the colours in PhotoGalaxy. However you might not see much. A lot of my dads colour negs from the '60-'70 don't even contain enough data to make a crude BW print these days. Yes I know chemistrys have changed over the years and are definitely more archival however who is to say that the stabilizer used to process your last set of negs wasn't being pushed beyond its working lifetime? Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://members.ozemail.com.au/~distudio/publications/ Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998
Re: Photodisks Failing
On Sat, Jan 03, 2004 at 11:11:12AM +1000, Rob Studdert wrote: On 2 Jan 2004 at 20:47, Pieter Nagel wrote: And even if Digital should be replaced by Quantum Imaging, I can at least take a Quantum image of my negative and reverse the colours in PhotoGalaxy. However you might not see much. A lot of my dads colour negs from the '60-'70 don't even contain enough data to make a crude BW print these days. Ah, but it is *Quantum* imaging I am talking about... :-) Ok. So I overestimate the average longevity of negatives. So I'm left with saying, er, that it is easier to accidentally delete a digital picture than a frame from a negative, yup, that's the ticket. But honestly, it's actually just that I *like* the physicality of the film medium, despite being a professional computer programmer (or maybe, because of it). Storing an image using a 2D grid of molecules of varying densities feels just so, well, elegant and simple. Maybe because molecules don't crash and have bugs as often. That said, despite knowing that the fast majority of my photography henceforth will be digital. I have a sneaky suspicion that a lot of my future film work will be with the LX, due to the OTF metering, of a future foray into medium format. -- ,_ /_) /| / / i e t e r/ |/ a g e l
Re: Photodisks Failing
On 3 Jan 2004 at 2:28, Pieter Nagel wrote: That said, despite knowing that the fast majority of my photography henceforth will be digital. I have a sneaky suspicion that a lot of my future film work will be with the LX, due to the OTF metering, of a future foray into medium format. Whilst I'm pretty confident that my digital images will remain viable and protected given the means that I take to protect them I'm with you to a degree. I bet both ways, pure digi for the snap-shot events and film for anything that's more demanding/important to me and then I make a whopping scan so that it's backed up :-) IMHO Few factors have more relevance to the longevity of photo or storage media than correct storage and handling. Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://members.ozemail.com.au/~distudio/publications/ Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998
Photodisks Failing
Anyone else ever have a problem with Kodak Photodisks. I popped an old one in the new machine today and I got nothing. So I take to the linux box still nothing. I'm going to have my buddies from GA Tech take a look at it this weekend, but has this happened to anyone else? Evan
RE: Photodisks Failing
Sigh, I mean PhotoCD. It was a last night was very long. ; ) Evan -Original Message- From: buddha [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2004 6:55 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Photodisks Failing Anyone else ever have a problem with Kodak Photodisks. I popped an old one in the new machine today and I got nothing. So I take to the linux box still nothing. I'm going to have my buddies from GA Tech take a look at it this weekend, but has this happened to anyone else? Evan
