Re: Propeller droop, caused by iPhone?

2010-04-08 Thread Joseph McAllister

On Apr 6, 2010, at 03:07 , David Mann wrote:


On Apr 6, 2010, at 7:43 AM, Joseph McAllister wrote:


In the Subtle Innuendo contest (I just started)…

The winner is: Dave Mann and his Palm, keeping it to yourself Mann.

Runner up is: Bob W.;  it's never happened to me before with  
It'll be ready to fly very soon - must remember that one...


Yay!  What do I win?


You Sir win an evening's supply of Knudson's Premier Palm oil. It  
prevents that bother with the chaffing and eventual skin breakdown so  
common amongst men on the go.


:-)

Joseph McAllister
pentax...@mac.com

http://gallery.me.com/jomac
http://web.me.com/jomac/show.me/Blog/Blog.html







--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.


Re: Propeller droop, caused by iPhone?

2010-04-08 Thread Joseph McAllister

On Apr 6, 2010, at 03:07 , David Mann wrote:


I just found the photo I was talking about.

http://www.multi.net.nz/temp/wavy-palm.jpg

Taken from within an ATR-72, approximately above Kaikoura.




Woah! Not a pretty sight at 14,000 feet. Me props falling down!


Joseph McAllister
pentax...@mac.com

“ Nature is considerably more creative and inventive than humankind.  
Without Nature there isn't any humankind. Without humankind, Nature is  
fine.”



--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.


Re: Propeller droop, caused by iPhone?

2010-04-08 Thread mike wilson

 Joseph McAllister pentax...@mac.com wrote: 
 On Apr 6, 2010, at 03:07 , David Mann wrote:
 
  On Apr 6, 2010, at 7:43 AM, Joseph McAllister wrote:
 
  In the Subtle Innuendo contest (I just started)…
 
  The winner is: Dave Mann and his Palm, keeping it to yourself Mann.
 
  Runner up is: Bob W.;  it's never happened to me before with  
  It'll be ready to fly very soon - must remember that one...
 
  Yay!  What do I win?
 
 You Sir win an evening's supply of Knudson's Premier Palm oil. It  
 prevents that bother with the chaffing and eventual skin breakdown so  
 common amongst men on the go.

Run out of Knob Creek?

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Propeller droop, caused by iPhone?

2010-04-08 Thread eckinator
2010/4/8 mike wilson m.9.wil...@ntlworld.com:

  Joseph McAllister pentax...@mac.com wrote:
 On Apr 6, 2010, at 03:07 , David Mann wrote:

  On Apr 6, 2010, at 7:43 AM, Joseph McAllister wrote:
 
  In the Subtle Innuendo contest (I just started)…
 
  The winner is: Dave Mann and his Palm, keeping it to yourself Mann.
 
  Runner up is: Bob W.;  it's never happened to me before with
  It'll be ready to fly very soon - must remember that one...
 
  Yay!  What do I win?

 You Sir win an evening's supply of Knudson's Premier Palm oil. It
 prevents that bother with the chaffing and eventual skin breakdown so
 common amongst men on the go.

 Run out of Knob Creek?

Happens frequently to Knoblemen...

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.


Re: Propeller droop, caused by iPhone?

2010-04-06 Thread David Mann
On Apr 6, 2010, at 7:43 AM, Joseph McAllister wrote:

 In the Subtle Innuendo contest (I just started)…
 
 The winner is: Dave Mann and his Palm, keeping it to yourself Mann.
 
 Runner up is: Bob W.;  it's never happened to me before with It'll be 
 ready to fly very soon - must remember that one...

Yay!  What do I win?

I just found the photo I was talking about.

http://www.multi.net.nz/temp/wavy-palm.jpg

Taken from within an ATR-72, approximately above Kaikoura.

Cheers,
Dave
-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.


Re: OT: Propeller droop, caused by iPhone?

2010-04-05 Thread steve harley

On 2010-04-04 21:31 , Christine Nielsen wrote:

http://inielsen.com//bloggerpics/droopy1.jpg

I'm looking for reassurance that this is some kind of iphone camera artifact,


yeah, it stems from the fact that the iPhone doesn't have a shutter, and 
doesn't capture the all pixels in an image at once; instead it reads 
across the sensor chip over a period of a fraction of a second, so as it 
reads from one side to the other, moving objects may be distorted in 
unusual ways


you could think of it as a graduated time filter

here is another interesting airplane propeller example with more on the 
effect


http://cameratoss.blogspot.com/2007/07/iphone-rolling-shutter-distortion.html

--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.


Re: OT: Propeller droop, caused by iPhone?

2010-04-05 Thread mike wilson

Christine Nielsen wrote:

My husband snapped this yesterday with his iPhone.  The propeller of the plane 
was moving at the time,  but appears still, although very droopy:

http://inielsen.com//bloggerpics/droopy1.jpg

I'm looking for reassurance that this is some kind of iphone camera artifact, and not 
indicative of the air-worthiness of said plane, which he assures me will be ready to fly 
very soon



I can't work out why both blades (or one pictured twice) are not 
affected in the same direction of rotation.  Plus, all of the propeller 
artefacts I have seen from phone cameras exhibit more of a 
chopped-up-ness than any sort of flex.  So, on the balance of 
probabilities, I have to say that your husband is deceiving you and he 
is suffering from a severe case of the droops.


--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.


RE: Propeller droop, caused by iPhone?

2010-04-05 Thread Bob W
 My husband snapped this yesterday with his iPhone.  The 
 propeller of the plane was moving at the time,  but appears 
 still, although very droopy:
 
 http://inielsen.com//bloggerpics/droopy1.jpg
 
 I'm looking for reassurance that this is some kind of iphone 
 camera artifact, and not indicative of the air-worthiness of 
 said plane, which he assures me will be ready to fly very soon
 
 :)
 -c

Did he say it's never happened to me before?

I routinely receive a great many emails offering help with a similar problem
- would you like me to autoforward them to your husband?

It'll be ready to fly very soon - must remember that one...



-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.


Re: OT: Propeller droop, caused by iPhone?

2010-04-05 Thread David Mann
On Apr 5, 2010, at 6:18 PM, steve harley wrote:

 here is another interesting airplane propeller example with more on the effect
 
 http://cameratoss.blogspot.com/2007/07/iphone-rolling-shutter-distortion.html

I had a very similar effect to that a long time ago with the camera on my Palm. 
 So it's not just confined to the iPhone :)

Dave
-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.


Re: Propeller droop, caused by iPhone?

2010-04-05 Thread eckinator
2010/4/5 Bob W p...@web-options.com:

 Did he say it's never happened to me before?

Reminds me of the joke (between ladies) how to tell a macho from a super macho:
macho: you give him head and afterwards he asks if he was good
super: can't make it rise and asks if that happens to you often
Cheers Ecke

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.


Re: OT: Propeller droop, caused by iPhone?

2010-04-05 Thread Steven Desjardins
Hey, we older guys all have trouble with camera artifacts from time to
time.  ;-p

That's so weird.

On Sun, Apr 4, 2010 at 11:31 PM, Christine Nielsen ch...@inielsen.net wrote:
 My husband snapped this yesterday with his iPhone.  The propeller of the 
 plane was moving at the time,  but appears still, although very droopy:

 http://inielsen.com//bloggerpics/droopy1.jpg

 I'm looking for reassurance that this is some kind of iphone camera artifact, 
 and not indicative of the air-worthiness of said plane, which he assures me 
 will be ready to fly very soon

 :)
 -c
 --
 PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
 PDML@pdml.net
 http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
 to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
 the directions.




-- 
Steve Desjardins

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.


RE: OT: Propeller droop, caused by iPhone?

2010-04-05 Thread John Sessoms

From: Christine Nielsen

My husband snapped this yesterday with his iPhone.  The propeller of
the plane was moving at the time,  but appears still, although very
droopy:

http://inielsen.com//bloggerpics/droopy1.jpg

I'm looking for reassurance that this is some kind of iphone camera
artifact, and not indicative of the air-worthiness of said plane,
which he assures me will be ready to fly very soon


As long as his insurance premiums are up to date, what's the problem?  ;-D

It is an artifact of the capture. Evidently the iPhone scans the image, 
and the propeller blades moved during the scan. Different parts of the 
blade were captured in different positions during the scan.


I read about some guy a couple years back who was using a flat-bed 
scanner in place of the film holder on a 8x10 camera and was generating 
these kinds of distortion purposefully.


--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.


RE: OT: Propeller droop, caused by iPhone?

2010-04-05 Thread Bob W
  My husband snapped this yesterday with his iPhone.  The 
 propeller of 
  the plane was moving at the time,  but appears still, although very
  droopy:
  
  http://inielsen.com//bloggerpics/droopy1.jpg
  
  I'm looking for reassurance that this is some kind of iphone camera 
  artifact, and not indicative of the air-worthiness of said plane, 
  which he assures me will be ready to fly very soon
 
 As long as his insurance premiums are up to date, what's the 
 problem?  ;-D
 
 It is an artifact of the capture. Evidently the iPhone scans 
 the image, and the propeller blades moved during the scan. 
 Different parts of the blade were captured in different 
 positions during the scan.
 
 I read about some guy a couple years back who was using a 
 flat-bed scanner in place of the film holder on a 8x10 camera 
 and was generating these kinds of distortion purposefully.

The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done
is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been
already of old time, which was before us.

http://people.rit.edu/andpph/text-slit-scan.html



-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.


Re: OT: Propeller droop, caused by iPhone?

2010-04-05 Thread Godfrey DiGiorgi
On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 7:34 AM, Bob W p...@web-options.com wrote:

 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done
 is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
 Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been
 already of old time, which was before us.

 http://people.rit.edu/andpph/text-slit-scan.html

I love it when you get all Biblical on us, Bob W. :-)
-- 
Godfrey
  godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.


RE: OT: Propeller droop, caused by iPhone?

2010-04-05 Thread John Sessoms

From: Bob W
My husband snapped this yesterday with his iPhone.  The 
 propeller of 

  the plane was moving at the time,  but appears still, although very
  droopy:
  
  http://inielsen.com//bloggerpics/droopy1.jpg
  
  I'm looking for reassurance that this is some kind of iphone camera 
  artifact, and not indicative of the air-worthiness of said plane, 
  which he assures me will be ready to fly very soon
 
 As long as his insurance premiums are up to date, what's the 
 problem?  ;-D
 
 It is an artifact of the capture. Evidently the iPhone scans 
 the image, and the propeller blades moved during the scan. 
 Different parts of the blade were captured in different 
 positions during the scan.
 
 I read about some guy a couple years back who was using a 
 flat-bed scanner in place of the film holder on a 8x10 camera 
 and was generating these kinds of distortion purposefully.


The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done
is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been
already of old time, which was before us.

http://people.rit.edu/andpph/text-slit-scan.html



Yeah? But how good can it really  be?

I didn't see duct tape mentioned at all in the article.

--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.


Re: OT: Propeller droop, caused by iPhone?

2010-04-05 Thread Rick Womer
It's a sign of metal fatigue.

Rick


P.S. Is he building that from a Van's kit?  I've flown with a friend in his 
Van's RV8--lots of fun.


http://photo.net/photos/RickW


--- On Sun, 4/4/10, Christine Nielsen ch...@inielsen.net wrote:

 From: Christine Nielsen ch...@inielsen.net
 Subject: OT:  Propeller droop, caused by iPhone?
 To: pdml@pdml.net
 Date: Sunday, April 4, 2010, 11:31 PM
 My husband snapped this yesterday
 with his iPhone.  The propeller of the plane was moving
 at the time,  but appears still, although very droopy:
 
 http://inielsen.com//bloggerpics/droopy1.jpg
 
 I'm looking for reassurance that this is some kind of
 iphone camera artifact, and not indicative of the
 air-worthiness of said plane, which he assures me will be
 ready to fly very soon
 
 :)
 -c
 -- 
 PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
 PDML@pdml.net
 http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
 to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link
 directly above and follow the directions.
 


  

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.


Re: OT: Propeller droop, caused by iPhone?

2010-04-05 Thread P. J. Alling

On 4/5/2010 12:23 PM, John Sessoms wrote:

From: Bob W
My husband snapped this yesterday with his iPhone.  The 

 propeller of
  the plane was moving at the time,  but appears still, although 
very

  droopy:
http://inielsen.com//bloggerpics/droopy1.jpg
I'm looking for reassurance that this is some kind of 
iphone camera   artifact, and not indicative of the 
air-worthiness of said plane,   which he assures me will be ready 
to fly very soon
  As long as his insurance premiums are up to date, what's the  
problem?  ;-D
  It is an artifact of the capture. Evidently the iPhone scans  
the image, and the propeller blades moved during the scan.  
Different parts of the blade were captured in different  positions 
during the scan.
  I read about some guy a couple years back who was using a  
flat-bed scanner in place of the film holder on a 8x10 camera  and 
was generating these kinds of distortion purposefully.


The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which 
is done

is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath 
been

already of old time, which was before us.

http://people.rit.edu/andpph/text-slit-scan.html



Yeah? But how good can it really  be?

I didn't see duct tape mentioned at all in the article.


That's probably because he didn't have to tape any ducks...

--
{\rtf1\ansi\ansicpg1252\deff0\deflang1033{\fonttbl{\f0\fnil\fcharset0 Courier 
New;}}
\viewkind4\uc1\pard\f0\fs20 I've just upgraded to Thunderbird 3.0 and the 
interface subtly weird.\par
}


--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.


Re: Propeller droop, caused by iPhone?

2010-04-05 Thread Joseph McAllister

On Apr 5, 2010, at 01:17 , Bob W wrote:


My husband snapped this yesterday with his iPhone.  The
propeller of the plane was moving at the time,  but appears
still, although very droopy:

http://inielsen.com//bloggerpics/droopy1.jpg

I'm looking for reassurance that this is some kind of iphone
camera artifact, and not indicative of the air-worthiness of
said plane, which he assures me will be ready to fly very  
soon


Did he say it's never happened to me before?

I routinely receive a great many emails offering help with a  
similar problem

- would you like me to autoforward them to your husband?

It'll be ready to fly very soon - must remember that one...



I had a very similar effect to that a long time ago with the  
camera on my Palm.  So it's not just confined to the iPhone :)


Dave Mann


super: can't make it rise and asks if that happens to you often
Cheers Ecke


Bob W wrote
The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which  
is done

is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it  
hath been

already of old time, which was before us.

http://people.rit.edu/andpph/text-slit-scan.html





It's a sign of metal fatigue.

Rick


In the Subtle Innuendo contest (I just started)…

The winner is: Dave Mann and his Palm, keeping it to yourself Mann.

Runner up is: Bob W.;  it's never happened to me before with It'll  
be ready to fly very soon - must remember that one...


Thanks guys, for keeping on topic!

Joseph McAllister
pentax...@mac.com

http://gallery.me.com/jomac
http://web.me.com/jomac/show.me/Blog/Blog.html







--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.


Re: OT: Propeller droop, caused by iPhone?

2010-04-05 Thread mike wilson

John Sessoms wrote:

From: Bob W

My husband snapped this yesterday with his iPhone.  The 


 propeller of


  the plane was moving at the time,  but appears still, although very
  droopy:
http://inielsen.com//bloggerpics/droopy1.jpg
I'm looking for reassurance that this is some kind of iphone 
camera   artifact, and not indicative of the air-worthiness of 
said plane,   which he assures me will be ready to fly very 
soon


  As long as his insurance premiums are up to date, what's the  
problem?  ;-D
  It is an artifact of the capture. Evidently the iPhone scans  
the image, and the propeller blades moved during the scan.  
Different parts of the blade were captured in different  positions 
during the scan.
  I read about some guy a couple years back who was using a  
flat-bed scanner in place of the film holder on a 8x10 camera  and 
was generating these kinds of distortion purposefully.



The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is 
done

is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been
already of old time, which was before us.

http://people.rit.edu/andpph/text-slit-scan.html



Yeah? But how good can it really  be?

I didn't see duct tape mentioned at all in the article.


A, duct tape.  I think I know something about that.
http://www.mikeawilson.co.uk/6476072.jpg

--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.


OT: Propeller droop, caused by iPhone?

2010-04-04 Thread Christine Nielsen
My husband snapped this yesterday with his iPhone.  The propeller of the plane 
was moving at the time,  but appears still, although very droopy:

http://inielsen.com//bloggerpics/droopy1.jpg

I'm looking for reassurance that this is some kind of iphone camera artifact, 
and not indicative of the air-worthiness of said plane, which he assures me 
will be ready to fly very soon

:)
-c
-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.


Re: OT: Propeller droop, caused by iPhone?

2010-04-04 Thread Christian Skofteland

On 4/4/2010 11:31 PM, Christine Nielsen wrote:

My husband snapped this yesterday with his iPhone.  The propeller of the plane 
was moving at the time,  but appears still, although very droopy:

http://inielsen.com//bloggerpics/droopy1.jpg

I'm looking for reassurance that this is some kind of iphone camera artifact, and not 
indicative of the air-worthiness of said plane, which he assures me will be ready to fly 
very soon

:)
-c
   


Interesting...  I have no idea about the prop, but it's pretty cool that 
he's building his own plane.  Also, the iPhone camera sucks compared to 
my crackberry...


Christian

--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.


Re: OT: Propeller droop, caused by iPhone?

2010-04-04 Thread P. J. Alling

That has to be an artifact, but damn it's funny.

On 4/4/2010 11:31 PM, Christine Nielsen wrote:

My husband snapped this yesterday with his iPhone.  The propeller of the plane 
was moving at the time,  but appears still, although very droopy:

http://inielsen.com//bloggerpics/droopy1.jpg

I'm looking for reassurance that this is some kind of iphone camera artifact, and not 
indicative of the air-worthiness of said plane, which he assures me will be ready to fly 
very soon

:)
-c
   



--
{\rtf1\ansi\ansicpg1252\deff0\deflang1033{\fonttbl{\f0\fnil\fcharset0 Courier 
New;}}
\viewkind4\uc1\pard\f0\fs20 I've just upgraded to Thunderbird 3.0 and the 
interface subtly weird.\par
}


--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.


Re: OT: Propeller droop, caused by iPhone?

2010-04-04 Thread Larry Colen


On Apr 4, 2010, at 8:31 PM, Christine Nielsen wrote:

My husband snapped this yesterday with his iPhone.  The propeller of  
the plane was moving at the time,  but appears still, although very  
droopy:


http://inielsen.com//bloggerpics/droopy1.jpg

I'm looking for reassurance that this is some kind of iphone camera  
artifact, and not indicative of the air-worthiness of said plane,  
which he assures me will be ready to fly very soon


It's a standard feature for aircraft used in hazardous situations.  
Here's one of similar construction on a helicopter I photographed a  
while back:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/366279/in/set-72157620580992698/


--
Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est





--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.