Re: PESO: Truth in Advertising

[Igor PDML-StR]

[almost] Quoting Bart Sympson: "that's a real fake ID!"

Cheers,

Igor


Daniel J. Matyola wrote:


A shop in Kusadasi, Turkey, near the Ephesus archeological site.

http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=18241463
K-5 IIs, DA 18-135
Comments and criticisms are invited.

Dan Matyola


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Re: PESO: Truth in Advertising

[Bob W-PDML]

On 4 Jun 2016, at 22:19, Daniel J. Matyola  wrote:
> 
> Thanks for looking, Bulent.  I have a fake  Breitling I bought
> knowingly, as a lark, to go along with my two authentic vintage
> Breitling Navitimers.  When I was flying i fighter jets, that was THE
> timepiece among aviators.
> 
> Fake watches are sold all over the world.  I got the impression that
> Turkey makes the vendors disclose the fact, at least in tourist areas.
> Our Epheses tour guide also stressed the fact that the watches and
> ancient coins in the market were fake and worthless.

Are you suggesting that the solid gold, antique wrist sundial I bought, which 
once belonged to Saint Paul, might not be the real thing?


B
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Re: PESO: Truth in Advertising

[ann sanfedele]

Indeed! LOL

ann


On 6/4/2016 9:25 AM, Daniel J. Matyola wrote:

A shop in Kusadasi, Turkey, near the Ephesus archeological site.

http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=18241463
K-5 IIs, DA 18-135
Comments and criticisms are invited.

Dan Matyola
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola




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Re: PESO: Truth in Advertising

[Daniel J. Matyola]

Thanks for looking, Bulent.  I have a fake  Breitling I bought
knowingly, as a lark, to go along with my two authentic vintage
Breitling Navitimers.  When I was flying i fighter jets, that was THE
timepiece among aviators.

Fake watches are sold all over the world.  I got the impression that
Turkey makes the vendors disclose the fact, at least in tourist areas.
Our Epheses tour guide also stressed the fact that the watches and
ancient coins in the market were fake and worthless.

Dan Matyola
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola


On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 4:26 PM, Bulent Celasun  wrote:
> Looks like a fairly authentic description of the truth.
>
> :)
>
> Bulent
> -
> http://patoloji.gen.tr
> http://celasun.wordpress.com/
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/bc_the_path/
> http://photo.net/photodb/user?user_id=2226822
> http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/artists/bulentcelasun
>
>
> 2016-06-04 16:25 GMT+03:00 Daniel J. Matyola :
>> A shop in Kusadasi, Turkey, near the Ephesus archeological site.
>>
>> http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=18241463
>> K-5 IIs, DA 18-135
>> Comments and criticisms are invited.
>>
>> Dan Matyola
>> http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola
>>
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Re: PESO: Truth in Advertising

[Bulent Celasun]

Looks like a fairly authentic description of the truth.

:)

Bulent
-
http://patoloji.gen.tr
http://celasun.wordpress.com/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bc_the_path/
http://photo.net/photodb/user?user_id=2226822
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/artists/bulentcelasun


2016-06-04 16:25 GMT+03:00 Daniel J. Matyola :
> A shop in Kusadasi, Turkey, near the Ephesus archeological site.
>
> http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=18241463
> K-5 IIs, DA 18-135
> Comments and criticisms are invited.
>
> Dan Matyola
> http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola
>
> --
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> the directions.

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RE: Uncomfortable Truth About Photography

[Malcolm Smith]

Bipin Gupta wrote:

Bipin, I think I might be one of the ones who doesn't share these views.

  1. It is more about equipment than we'd like to admit and smart kids.

No. It really isn't. The last couple of years have shown me that. I've been 
playing with a K7 again in the last couple of days and had real fun. It's not 
about the gear no matter what is advertised. It's nice I grant you but not 
essential.

  2. People are doing some unethical shit with RAW and nobody really
  understands or cares.

This has been going on for years. You can upload an image from anywhere and 
Photoshop the life out of it, bypassing the need for a camera at all.

  3. Many times, sadly, it doesn't even matter if your photos are all
  that good or not.

Depends what you want from a photo. The majority of iphone photos are great and 
if you're uploading to social media something that happened that moment, it 
only has to convey what is happening, not be a gallery print. If you sell your 
photographic services and/or images people will care. I don't agree with any of 
the other views.

  4. Photography is easier than we'd like to admit.

Nearly always said by owners of DSLRs who have never had the kit lens off the 
body and never used it out of auto mode. There is a world of difference to 
owning a camera and taking photos with it, to dedicated photographers who have 
an idea of the image they want to take and possess the skills required to make 
that happen.

Malcolm




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Re: Uncomfortable Truth About Photography

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

I didn't quite get that far before realizing that it was stupid to waste any 
further time reading the piece, although I did read through it for the exercise 
of being able to critique. 

I don't find any of the author's truths uncomfortable or even related to what 
I do with my photography. It's just a little op-ed rant to make the author seem 
informed or smart. Is stupid. 

G

 On Apr 23, 2015, at 5:55 AM, P.J. Alling webstertwenty...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 I got to point 2. ...

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Re: Uncomfortable Truth About Photography

[Mark Roberts]

Well, at least the uncomfortable part was true.

 
-- 
Mark Roberts - Photography  Multimedia
www.robertstech.com





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Re: Uncomfortable Truth About Photography

[Bruce Walker]

This came to mind ...

You're talking a lot, but you're not saying anything.
 ~ Psycho Killer; Talking Heads


On Thu, Apr 23, 2015 at 12:04 PM, Mark Roberts
postmas...@robertstech.com wrote:

 Well, at least the uncomfortable part was true.

-- 
-bmw

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Re: Uncomfortable Truth About Photography

[P.J. Alling]

I got to point 2. about half way through I realized he didn't know what 
the hell he was talking about.  Changing contrast is an old technique, 
too high a contrast range wouldn't reproduce well in newspapers.  
Cropping and manipulating images has always happened, often on the 
editorial level and has never been OK, if it changed the story, unless 
the editor did it.


On 4/22/2015 2:13 PM, Bipin Gupta wrote:

This great little piece landed in my Inbox today from my school mate
in Canada. This could be a tribute to all us great or not so great
Photographers.
Read on folks. You will love it or   hate it. The choice is
yours. But do share some feedback - either way.
Regards. Bipin.

1. It is more about equipment than we'd like to admit and smart kids.

The kid whose dad bought him a D3 and a 400mm f/2.8 lens is going to
have a better sports portfolio than you. You're talented but too
fucking cheap to provide or get top notch equipment. As a consequence,
he got all the primary shots he needed in the first five plays and
spent the next half-hour experimenting with cool angle shots and
different techniques, while you were still trying to get your fucking
cheap DSLR to lock focus quickly enough and shoot.

True, you can't pick up a pro camera, set it to P mode and instantly
turn into Ansel Adams. But if you're learning at the same pace as
everyone else and you are trying to keep up because your equipment
can't hack it, the difference will be stark, and frustrating. Remember
today’s kids are smart learners.

2. People are doing some unethical shit with RAW and nobody really
understands or cares.

Photoshopping the hell out of photos is a no no in photojournalism, we
all know this. And yet I see portfolios and award compilations come to
our desk with heavy artificial vignetting, damn-near HDR exposure
masking and contrasts with blacks so deep you could hide a body inside
them.

When I question anybody about this they say oh yeah, well I didn't do
anything in CS6, just the raw editor in Lightroom real quick so it's
okay, it's not destructive editing, the original is still there.

It's not okay.

But it doesn't seem like anybody cares. Some of the shit on the wire
services looks exactly the same so they got jobs somewhere.

That dude that got canned from The Blade for photoshopping basketballs
where there were none? He's found redemption- I remember reading an
article where some editor says oh he sends us the raw files so we
know its kosher now.

Fucking storm chasers are the worst offenders at this shit. Guess what
he does now.

3. Many times, sadly, it doesn't even matter if your photos are all
that good or not.

We are in the age of the Facebook Wedding Album. I've shot weddings
pretty much every Saturday for a decade and if there is one thing I've
learned it is the bride paradox: people hate photos of themselves even
if they are good, people love photos of themselves with people they
love even if they are bad.

And that's totally fine.

Now that many people have a DSLR, there exists an entirely new and
growing population of couples who are perfectly happy employing their
wedding guests as proxy paparazzi for everything from prep to ceremony
to formals to cake to dance. They will like their photos better than
ours, even though they won't last, they won't be able to put together
a quality album, but they really don't mind.

And nobody cares.

My buddy, an excellent photographer that chooses to shoot mediocre but
proven poses for senior portraits, yearbooks, weddings, school sports,
etc.,.. makes something like $ 70k / year in Midwest money. He's a
really great photographer, but you'll never see the good stuff he
shoots because it doesn't sell. You shoot what the clients want.

4. Photography is easier than we'd like to admit.

Here's something for you: I've been doing this for a long time. I am
an excellent photographer. Give me an assignment and tell me what you
want and I assure you, I'll come pretty fucking close to the picture
you had inside your head. I am very, very good at what I do.

You know what? You could learn everything I know in a few months.

Maybe less if you really focus on it.

That's it.

My knowledge, my experiences, all of it, from professional sports to
weddings to news to features to product shots to portraits, you can
learn all in a few goddamn months, especially if you have Pro gear.

5. We need to stop being goddamn snobs and accept the coming of The Golden Age

Remember that asshole kid with the $ 5k Nikon D3 whose portfolio was
better than ours?

Have you played with a D3? That is a sweet goddamn camera. That can do
everything you need to do, right now. Even ISO 6400 is beautiful. And
a lot of cameras are like that. Take the Pentax K-5 – beats the hell
out of the Canon 5D Mk III, if we are to believe DxO Mark

Everything is getting better. Sony, Canon, Nikon, Pentax, everything
is fantastic. And that means more people are going to be able to
afford really great cameras that 

Re: Uncomfortable Truth About Photography

[Brian Walters]

I stopped reading at the first 'fucking'. Well, that's not right.  I  
made it as far as the second one.


I'm not adverse to using the F word but if this guy can't get the  
message across by reasoned argument then I can't be bothered reading it.



Cheers

Brian

++
Brian Walters
Western Sydney Australia
http://lyons-ryan.org/southernlight/


Quoting Bipin Gupta bip...@gmail.com:


This great little piece landed in my Inbox today from my school mate
in Canada. This could be a tribute to all us great or not so great
Photographers.
Read on folks. You will love it or   hate it. The choice is
yours. But do share some feedback - either way.
Regards. Bipin.

1. It is more about equipment than we'd like to admit and smart kids.

The kid whose dad bought him a D3 and a 400mm f/2.8 lens is going to
have a better sports portfolio than you. You're talented but too
fucking cheap to provide or get top notch equipment. As a consequence,
he got all the primary shots he needed in the first five plays and
spent the next half-hour experimenting with cool angle shots and
different techniques, while you were still trying to get your fucking
cheap DSLR to lock focus quickly enough and shoot.

True, you can't pick up a pro camera, set it to P mode and instantly
turn into Ansel Adams. But if you're learning at the same pace as
everyone else and you are trying to keep up because your equipment
can't hack it, the difference will be stark, and frustrating. Remember
today’s kids are smart learners.

2. People are doing some unethical shit with RAW and nobody really
understands or cares.

Photoshopping the hell out of photos is a no no in photojournalism, we
all know this. And yet I see portfolios and award compilations come to
our desk with heavy artificial vignetting, damn-near HDR exposure
masking and contrasts with blacks so deep you could hide a body inside
them.

When I question anybody about this they say oh yeah, well I didn't do
anything in CS6, just the raw editor in Lightroom real quick so it's
okay, it's not destructive editing, the original is still there.

It's not okay.

But it doesn't seem like anybody cares. Some of the shit on the wire
services looks exactly the same so they got jobs somewhere.

That dude that got canned from The Blade for photoshopping basketballs
where there were none? He's found redemption- I remember reading an
article where some editor says oh he sends us the raw files so we
know its kosher now.

Fucking storm chasers are the worst offenders at this shit. Guess what
he does now.

3. Many times, sadly, it doesn't even matter if your photos are all
that good or not.

We are in the age of the Facebook Wedding Album. I've shot weddings
pretty much every Saturday for a decade and if there is one thing I've
learned it is the bride paradox: people hate photos of themselves even
if they are good, people love photos of themselves with people they
love even if they are bad.

And that's totally fine.

Now that many people have a DSLR, there exists an entirely new and
growing population of couples who are perfectly happy employing their
wedding guests as proxy paparazzi for everything from prep to ceremony
to formals to cake to dance. They will like their photos better than
ours, even though they won't last, they won't be able to put together
a quality album, but they really don't mind.

And nobody cares.

My buddy, an excellent photographer that chooses to shoot mediocre but
proven poses for senior portraits, yearbooks, weddings, school sports,
etc.,.. makes something like $ 70k / year in Midwest money. He's a
really great photographer, but you'll never see the good stuff he
shoots because it doesn't sell. You shoot what the clients want.

4. Photography is easier than we'd like to admit.

Here's something for you: I've been doing this for a long time. I am
an excellent photographer. Give me an assignment and tell me what you
want and I assure you, I'll come pretty fucking close to the picture
you had inside your head. I am very, very good at what I do.

You know what? You could learn everything I know in a few months.

Maybe less if you really focus on it.

That's it.

My knowledge, my experiences, all of it, from professional sports to
weddings to news to features to product shots to portraits, you can
learn all in a few goddamn months, especially if you have Pro gear.

5. We need to stop being goddamn snobs and accept the coming of The  
Golden Age


Remember that asshole kid with the $ 5k Nikon D3 whose portfolio was
better than ours?

Have you played with a D3? That is a sweet goddamn camera. That can do
everything you need to do, right now. Even ISO 6400 is beautiful. And
a lot of cameras are like that. Take the Pentax K-5 – beats the hell
out of the Canon 5D Mk III, if we are to believe DxO Mark

Everything is getting better. Sony, Canon, Nikon, Pentax, everything
is fantastic. And that means more people are going to be able to
afford really great cameras 

Re: Uncomfortable Truth About Photography

[Larry Colen]

He has some good points, but he comes off as a dick with a stick up his 
ass that's so big and thorny one wonders how he sits down.


Bipin Gupta wrote:

This great little piece landed in my Inbox today from my school mate
in Canada. This could be a tribute to all us great or not so great
Photographers.
Read on folks. You will love it or   hate it. The choice is
yours. But do share some feedback - either way.
Regards. Bipin.

1. It is more about equipment than we'd like to admit and smart kids.


2. People are doing some unethical shit with RAW and nobody really
understands or cares.

3. Many times, sadly, it doesn't even matter if your photos are all
that good or not.

4. Photography is easier than we'd like to admit.


5. We need to stop being goddamn snobs and accept the coming of The Golden Age

Remember that asshole kid with the $ 5k Nikon D3 whose portfolio was
better than ours?

Have you played with a D3? That is a sweet goddamn camera. That can do
everything you need to do, right now. Even ISO 6400 is beautiful. And
a lot of cameras are like that. Take the Pentax K-5 – beats the hell
out of the Canon 5D Mk III, if we are to believe DxO Mark

Everything is getting better. Sony, Canon, Nikon, Pentax, everything
is fantastic. And that means more people are going to be able to
afford really great cameras that can do amazing things and we are
going to see some amazing photography come from surprising places.

It's going to be awesome.

It may also be the death of a profession – of Pro Photographers?

Is this a bad thing for the industry? Look at the quality of the
photos from a smartphone and the level of editing you can apply to
those shots on the phone itself.

No, this is a damn fucking positive thing. Cheers Photography and all
you great Photographers!



--
Larry Colen  l...@red4est.com (postbox on min4est)

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Re: PESO Truth in signage

[Walt Gilbert]

On 3/25/2012 7:15 PM, Larry Colen wrote:

If you knew the people who stayed after the memorial, you would appreciate how 
amazingly accurate this combination of signage was:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/7015870911/in/set-72157629303490788/

(I shot about 1100 frames yesterday, about half during the ceremony (where I 
was also running a video camera) and about half during the festivities 
afterwards.  Unfortunately, I only got a few of the fireworks.  One benefit of 
the rain yesterday is that the fireworks didn't set the forest on fire.

--
Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est
It sounds like your friend had a fitting send-off, Larry. I guess it's 
unfortunate that you weren't able to capture all the fireworks, but I'm 
sure you captured the truly important moments shared between those who 
knew and cared about him.


-- Walt

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Re: PESO - Truth in Advertising?

[Jack Davis]

Refreshing catch Brian!

Jack


--- On Thu, 4/2/09, Brian Walters supera1...@fastmail.fm wrote:

 From: Brian Walters supera1...@fastmail.fm
 Subject: PESO - Truth in Advertising?
 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net
 Date: Thursday, April 2, 2009, 4:21 AM
 G'day all,
 
 I came across this one in a batch of old slides recently. 
 It's just a
 bit of fun - certainly no artistic merit.
 
 http://www.blognow.com.au/PESO/132282/Truth_in_Advertising.html
 
 
 The photo was taken with my trusty old Super A (with my now
 sadly
 inoperable Tokina AT-X 24-40mm zoom) and dates from 1996.
 
 
 
 Cheers
 
 Brian
 
 ++
 Brian Walters
 Western Sydney Australia
 http://members.westnet.com.au/brianwal/SL/
 -- 
 
 
 -- 
 http://www.fastmail.fm - Choose from over 50 domains or use
 your own
 
 
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Re: PESO - Truth in Advertising?

[frank theriault]

On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 7:21 AM, Brian Walters supera1...@fastmail.fm wrote:
 G'day all,

 I came across this one in a batch of old slides recently.  It's just a
 bit of fun - certainly no artistic merit.

 http://www.blognow.com.au/PESO/132282/Truth_in_Advertising.html


 The photo was taken with my trusty old Super A (with my now sadly
 inoperable Tokina AT-X 24-40mm zoom) and dates from 1996.

I'm pretty sure I've shown there before...

;-)

I think that's hilarious!  Good one.

cheers,
frank

-- 
Sharpness is a bourgeois concept.  -Henri Cartier-Bresson

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Re: PESO - Truth in Advertising?

[Eactivist]

In a message dated 4/2/2009 4:24:58 A.M. Pacific  Daylight Time, 
supera1...@fastmail.fm writes:
G'day all,

I came across  this one in a batch of old slides recently.  It's just a
bit of fun -  certainly no artistic  merit.

http://www.blognow.com.au/PESO/132282/Truth_in_Advertising.html


The  photo was taken with my trusty old Super A (with my now sadly
inoperable  Tokina AT-X 24-40mm zoom) and dates from  1996.



Cheers

Brian

==
Heh. Good  one.

Marnie aka Doe  :-)

-
Warning: I am now  filtering my email, so you may be censored.  

**Worried about job security? Check out the 5 safest jobs in a 
recession. 
(http://jobs.aol.com/gallery/growing-job-industries?ncid=emlcntuscare0003)

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Re: PESO: Truth

[Eactivist]

In a message dated 10/9/2006 5:43:57 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Truth is always the first victim of war. 

For Anna Politkovskaja:

http://www.fotocommunity.de/pc/pc/mypics/770012/display/6884088

http://www.rsf.org

-- 
Ralf R. Radermacher  -
=
Great shot! Very haunting. Can't relate it to your comment and dedication, 
but that doesn't matter. Visually moving.

Marnie aka Doe :-)  (I suppose I'll find out in the rest of the thread.)

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Re: PESO: Truth

[frank theriault]

On 10/9/06, Ralf R. Radermacher [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Truth is always the first victim of war.

 For Anna Politkovskaja:

 http://www.fotocommunity.de/pc/pc/mypics/770012/display/6884088

 http://www.rsf.org

I agree with everyone else.  Extremely powerful image!

Are those the gates to a concentration camp?  A wartime cemetary?  An
old battlefield?

I'm just wondering about your reference to war.

cheers,
frank


-- 
Sharpness is a bourgeois concept.  -Henri Cartier-Bresson

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Re: PESO: Truth

[Patrice LACOUTURE]

A very striking image, well put in perspective by the title...

Patrice

2006/10/10, Ralf R. Radermacher [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 Truth is always the first victim of war.

 For Anna Politkovskaja:

 http://www.fotocommunity.de/pc/pc/mypics/770012/display/6884088

 http://www.rsf.org

 --
 Ralf R. Radermacher  -  DL9KCG  -  Köln/Cologne, Germany
 private homepage: http://www.fotoralf.de
 manual cameras and photo galleries - updated Jan. 10, 2005
 Contarex - Kiev 60 - Horizon 202 - P6 mount lenses

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Re: PESO: Truth

[Ralf R. Radermacher]

frank theriault [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Are those the gates to a concentration camp?  A wartime cemetary?  An
 old battlefield?
 
 I'm just wondering about your reference to war.

No. This is the gate to an ordinary Belgian farm on a foggy winter
morning. 

I just hoped it would be an appropriate image to convey my sadness about
the murder of Anna Politovskaja, the woman who stood up against censure
and intimidation to report the truth about Boris Yeltsin's terrible war
in Chechnia.

And while her case has achieved international attention and press
coverage, 55 other journalists have been murdered around the world, this
year alone and in most cases widely unnoticed.

Ralf

-- 
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private homepage: http://www.fotoralf.de
manual cameras and photo galleries - updated Jan. 10, 2005
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Re: PESO: Truth

[frank theriault]

On 10/10/06, Ralf R. Radermacher [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 No. This is the gate to an ordinary Belgian farm on a foggy winter
 morning.

 I just hoped it would be an appropriate image to convey my sadness about
 the murder of Anna Politovskaja, the woman who stood up against censure
 and intimidation to report the truth about Boris Yeltsin's terrible war
 in Chechnia.

 And while her case has achieved international attention and press
 coverage, 55 other journalists have been murdered around the world, this
 year alone and in most cases widely unnoticed.


Thanks for your explanation, Ralf.  I wasn't aware of the lady to
which you refer.

Great photo!

cheers,
frank
-- 
Sharpness is a bourgeois concept.  -Henri Cartier-Bresson

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Re: PESO: Truth

[Shel Belinkoff]

It's just a click away ...

Shel



 [Original Message]
 From: Boris Liberman 

  Truth is always the first victim of war. 
  
  For Anna Politkovskaja:
  
  http://www.fotocommunity.de/pc/pc/mypics/770012/display/6884088
  
  http://www.rsf.org

 Thumbs up, Ralf. Now I only wish people would go and learn who Anna 
 Politkovskaya was...



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Re: PESO: Truth

[Boris Liberman]

Hi!

 Truth is always the first victim of war. 
 
 For Anna Politkovskaja:
 
 http://www.fotocommunity.de/pc/pc/mypics/770012/display/6884088
 
 http://www.rsf.org

Thumbs up, Ralf. Now I only wish people would go and learn who Anna 
Politkovskaya was...

Boris


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Re: PESO: Truth

[Carlos Royo]

Let me add my voice to the ones who have praised your photo. It is 
really good.

Ralf R. Radermacher wrote:
 Truth is always the first victim of war. 
 
 For Anna Politkovskaja:
 
 http://www.fotocommunity.de/pc/pc/mypics/770012/display/6884088
 
 http://www.rsf.org
 


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Re: PESO: Truth

[Adam Maas]

Indeed, and excellent photo, and even more moving in relation to the 
assassination of one of Russia's bravest journalists.

-Adam


Carlos Royo wrote:
 Let me add my voice to the ones who have praised your photo. It is 
 really good.
 
 Ralf R. Radermacher wrote:
 
Truth is always the first victim of war. 

For Anna Politkovskaja:

http://www.fotocommunity.de/pc/pc/mypics/770012/display/6884088

http://www.rsf.org

 
 
 



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RE: PESO: Truth

[Tom C]

Good shot! Powerful image.


Tom C.
Truth is always the first victim of war.

For Anna Politkovskaja:

http://www.fotocommunity.de/pc/pc/mypics/770012/display/6884088

http://www.rsf.org

--
Ralf R. Radermacher  -  DL9KCG  -  Köln/Cologne, Germany



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Re: PESO: Truth

[Paul Stenquist]

Great shot. Very powerful.
Paul
On Oct 9, 2006, at 8:34 PM, Ralf R. Radermacher wrote:

 Truth is always the first victim of war.

 For Anna Politkovskaja:

 http://www.fotocommunity.de/pc/pc/mypics/770012/display/6884088

 http://www.rsf.org

 -- 
 Ralf R. Radermacher  -  DL9KCG  -  Köln/Cologne, Germany
 private homepage: http://www.fotoralf.de
 manual cameras and photo galleries - updated Jan. 10, 2005
 Contarex - Kiev 60 - Horizon 202 - P6 mount lenses

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RE: PESO: Truth

[Shel Belinkoff]

Excellent!  This is the best photo you've posted here.

Shel



 [Original Message]
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Truth is always the first victim of war. 

 For Anna Politkovskaja:

 http://www.fotocommunity.de/pc/pc/mypics/770012/display/6884088



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Re: PESO: Truth

[Bruce Dayton]

This one has loads to say...most excellent!

-- 
Bruce


Monday, October 9, 2006, 5:34:03 PM, you wrote:

RRR Truth is always the first victim of war. 

RRR For Anna Politkovskaja:

RRR http://www.fotocommunity.de/pc/pc/mypics/770012/display/6884088

RRR http://www.rsf.org

RRR -- 
RRR Ralf R. Radermacher  -  DL9KCG  -  Köln/Cologne, Germany
RRR private homepage: http://www.fotoralf.de
RRR manual cameras and photo galleries - updated Jan. 10, 2005
RRR Contarex - Kiev 60 - Horizon 202 - P6 mount lenses




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Re: PESO: Truth

[Jack Davis]

Stark and strong image!

Jack

--- Ralf R. Radermacher [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Truth is always the first victim of war. 
 
 For Anna Politkovskaja:
 
 http://www.fotocommunity.de/pc/pc/mypics/770012/display/6884088
 
 http://www.rsf.org
 
 -- 
 Ralf R. Radermacher  -  DL9KCG  -  Köln/Cologne, Germany
 private homepage: http://www.fotoralf.de
 manual cameras and photo galleries - updated Jan. 10, 2005
 Contarex - Kiev 60 - Horizon 202 - P6 mount lenses
 
 -- 
 PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
 PDML@pdml.net
 http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
 


__
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

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Re: PESO: Truth

[Paul Sorenson]

WOW!!  It's not often that a picture just reaches out a grabs me, but 
this one sure did.  What a strong image.

-P

Ralf R. Radermacher wrote:
 Truth is always the first victim of war. 
 
 For Anna Politkovskaja:
 
 http://www.fotocommunity.de/pc/pc/mypics/770012/display/6884088
 
 http://www.rsf.org
 


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RE: PESO: Truth

[Jens Bladt]

Brilliant photograph!
The threat of the new day ...
Regards

Jens Bladt
http://www.jensbladt.dk
+45 56 63 77 11
+45 23 43 85 77
Skype: jensbladt248

-Oprindelig meddelelse-
Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] vegne af
Ralf R. Radermacher
Sendt: 10. oktober 2006 02:34
Til: Pentax Mailingliste
Emne: PESO: Truth


Truth is always the first victim of war.

For Anna Politkovskaja:

http://www.fotocommunity.de/pc/pc/mypics/770012/display/6884088

http://www.rsf.org

--
Ralf R. Radermacher  -  DL9KCG  -  Köln/Cologne, Germany
private homepage: http://www.fotoralf.de
manual cameras and photo galleries - updated Jan. 10, 2005
Contarex - Kiev 60 - Horizon 202 - P6 mount lenses

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Re: The Truth about Memory Cards (was: Re: Film for my digital camera)

[John Forbes]

Could it not be that you see more cheapo cards because far more cheap  
cards are sold than expensive cards?


Unless you know the sales ratios, you can't form any conclusions at all  
from the number of cards coming through your workshop.


John

On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 03:20:59 +0100, Shel Belinkoff  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



Hi John ...

Thanks for posting this info.

Shel


[Original Message]
From: John Celio




 Are all SD cards more or less equal, given storage volume?

Oh god no!  Not even close.



There are some very important things to know about memory cards before

you

go and buy one, but unfortunately these things can be hard to find out

from

the memory manufacturers.

One of the things I do at my job is image recovery for customers whose
memory cards have become unreadable for whatever reason.  I get about  
six

or

seven image recovery requests per week, and I've noticed some trends:

 -- The majority of memory cards that come to me with problems are those
cheapass SanDisk cards that are sold just about everywhere (especially  
at

places like Costco and Wal*Mart).  Note: this group does not include

Ultra

or Extreme cards.
 -- The next largest group of cards to come to me are no name memory
cards.  No name refers to cards from a brand no one (in my lab,  
anyway)

has heard of or cards with no brand at all.  Many of these cards come

from

online retailers who package them with a camera to sweeten the deal, or

from

the customer having to purchase more memory from a tourist trap while
travelling.
 -- The smallest group consists of professional cards.  In the last

couple

weeks, I've seen two SanDisk Ultra IIs, one SanDisk Extreme, and one

Lexar

Professional (which is the brand I use, and which I actually rarely see

come

to me with problems).

What separates these groups?

Memory manufacturers generally have three tiers of quality, and they

affect

the speed and reliability of the memory in each tier.

Tier 3: This is the cheap stuff.  Cheapass SanDisk cards fall in this
category, as well as most other cheapass memory you find (this includes
cheapass memory you can buy for your computer and whatnot).  If you were

to

open a tier 3 memory card, you would see more than one piece of flash
memory.  If, for example, you bought a 512mb card and opened it up, you
would most likely see four pieces of 128mb flash memory inside.  These
modules are cheaper to produce, and so the manufacturers produce them en
masse and combine them into larger capacity cards.  More memory modules
means higher chances of getting defective memory, as well as slower

transfer

rates, but lower prices.  Consumers buy this stuff because they think
they're getting a good deal, but in fact they're playing roulette with

their

data.

Tier 2: This stuff is usually produced from a couple memory modules, but

not

as many as Tier 3 cards.  The modules have higher capacities (in some

cases

there is only one piece of memory in tier 2 cards) and are usually

produced

under tighter quality controls.  These cards are faster than tier 3

cards,

but not always as fast as Tier 1 (though they can be very fast).

Tier 1: This is the high-end stuff.  You generally get what you pay for

with

tier 1 cards.  They are made from a single memory module, and are

generally

very fast (depending on the technology available at the time they were
designed, of course).  They are produced under the tightest quality
controls, and are often tested at the factory before being shipped.

Lexar

Professional, SanDisk Extreme, and SanDisk Ultra cards fall under this
category, but in my experience with so many bad cards, the Lexar
Professional cards seem to be the most reliable (though admittedly not
always as fast as the SanDisk cards)


So, after learning all this, it has become my opinion that, when buying
memory, one should spend the extra money and get professional-quality

stuff.

You really do get what you pay for.

John Celio











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Re: The Truth about Memory Cards (was: Re: Film for my digital camera)

[Charles Robinson]

On Sep 19, 2005, at 8:13, John Forbes wrote:

Could it not be that you see more cheapo cards because far more  
cheap cards are sold than expensive cards?


Unless you know the sales ratios, you can't form any conclusions at  
all from the number of cards coming through your workshop.




The same thought had occurred to me... whichever card is most  
commonly sold is most likely to show up in your store - with little  
regard for the quality of said card.


 -Charles

--
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[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Minneapolis, MN
http://charles.robinsontwins.org

Re: The Truth about Memory Cards (was: Re: Film for my digital camera)

[Gonz]

Yup, I was thinking the same thing.

rg


John Forbes wrote:
Could it not be that you see more cheapo cards because far more cheap  
cards are sold than expensive cards?


Unless you know the sales ratios, you can't form any conclusions at all  
from the number of cards coming through your workshop.


John

On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 03:20:59 +0100, Shel Belinkoff  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



Hi John ...

Thanks for posting this info.

Shel


[Original Message]
From: John Celio





 Are all SD cards more or less equal, given storage volume?

Oh god no!  Not even close.




There are some very important things to know about memory cards before


you


go and buy one, but unfortunately these things can be hard to find out


from


the memory manufacturers.

One of the things I do at my job is image recovery for customers whose
memory cards have become unreadable for whatever reason.  I get 
about  six


or


seven image recovery requests per week, and I've noticed some trends:

 -- The majority of memory cards that come to me with problems are those
cheapass SanDisk cards that are sold just about everywhere 
(especially  at

places like Costco and Wal*Mart).  Note: this group does not include


Ultra


or Extreme cards.
 -- The next largest group of cards to come to me are no name memory
cards.  No name refers to cards from a brand no one (in my lab,  
anyway)

has heard of or cards with no brand at all.  Many of these cards come


from


online retailers who package them with a camera to sweeten the deal, or


from


the customer having to purchase more memory from a tourist trap while
travelling.
 -- The smallest group consists of professional cards.  In the last


couple


weeks, I've seen two SanDisk Ultra IIs, one SanDisk Extreme, and one


Lexar


Professional (which is the brand I use, and which I actually rarely see


come


to me with problems).

What separates these groups?

Memory manufacturers generally have three tiers of quality, and they


affect


the speed and reliability of the memory in each tier.

Tier 3: This is the cheap stuff.  Cheapass SanDisk cards fall in this
category, as well as most other cheapass memory you find (this includes
cheapass memory you can buy for your computer and whatnot).  If you were


to


open a tier 3 memory card, you would see more than one piece of flash
memory.  If, for example, you bought a 512mb card and opened it up, you
would most likely see four pieces of 128mb flash memory inside.  These
modules are cheaper to produce, and so the manufacturers produce them en
masse and combine them into larger capacity cards.  More memory modules
means higher chances of getting defective memory, as well as slower


transfer


rates, but lower prices.  Consumers buy this stuff because they think
they're getting a good deal, but in fact they're playing roulette with


their


data.

Tier 2: This stuff is usually produced from a couple memory modules, but


not


as many as Tier 3 cards.  The modules have higher capacities (in some


cases


there is only one piece of memory in tier 2 cards) and are usually


produced


under tighter quality controls.  These cards are faster than tier 3


cards,


but not always as fast as Tier 1 (though they can be very fast).

Tier 1: This is the high-end stuff.  You generally get what you pay for


with


tier 1 cards.  They are made from a single memory module, and are


generally


very fast (depending on the technology available at the time they were
designed, of course).  They are produced under the tightest quality
controls, and are often tested at the factory before being shipped.


Lexar


Professional, SanDisk Extreme, and SanDisk Ultra cards fall under this
category, but in my experience with so many bad cards, the Lexar
Professional cards seem to be the most reliable (though admittedly not
always as fast as the SanDisk cards)


So, after learning all this, it has become my opinion that, when buying
memory, one should spend the extra money and get professional-quality


stuff.


You really do get what you pay for.

John Celio

Re: The Truth about Memory Cards (was: Re: Film for my digital camera)

[Frantisek]

Consider this:

http://www.datarescue.com/laboratory/cfcompare/

picture comparison of insides.

Frantisek

Re: The Truth about Memory Cards (was: Re: Film for my digital camera)

[Shel Belinkoff]

Once again the consumer gets screwed.  It seems we can't trust the brand
names and the hype about quality ...

Shel 
Am I paranoid or perceptive? 


 [Original Message]
 From: Frantisek 

 Consider this:

 http://www.datarescue.com/laboratory/cfcompare/

 picture comparison of insides.

Re: The Truth about Memory Cards (was: Re: Film for my digital camera)

[P. J. Alling]

Yep, you'll never know what's in a sealed package, especially one that's 
not meant to be opened.


Shel Belinkoff wrote:


Once again the consumer gets screwed.  It seems we can't trust the brand
names and the hype about quality ...

Shel 
Am I paranoid or perceptive? 



 


[Original Message]
From: Frantisek 
   



 


Consider this:

http://www.datarescue.com/laboratory/cfcompare/

picture comparison of insides.
   





 




--
When you're worried or in doubt, 
	Run in circles, (scream and shout).

Re: The Truth about Memory Cards (was: Re: Film for my digital camera)

[John Celio]

Could it not be that you see more cheapo cards because far more cheap 
cards are sold than expensive cards?


Unless you know the sales ratios, you can't form any conclusions at all 
from the number of cards coming through your workshop.


You are correct, and I did mean to address that in my original post.

Granted, the cheapass cards are bought in much higher quantities than the 
higher-end cards, but the shop I work at sees a wide range of customers, 
from grandparents who don't know diddly about digital watches, let alone 
cameras, to professional wedding photographers and photojournalists.  We 
also sell a LOT of tier 1 cards (Lexar Professional primarily, but our 
Promaster-branded cards are tier 1 cards from Delkin, from what I've been 
told).  Matter of fact, the majority of cards we sell are tier 1, which is 
why a lot of entry-level consumers tend to balk at their prices compared to 
what they can get at Costco.


Relatively speaking, it is pretty rare when a photographer comes in with a 
bad pro card, and our Promaster cards generally only come back with problems 
when the user failed to format it before using it.


So anyway, yeah, I wish I had numbers to back up what I wrote, but that's 
not really possible for me.  Maybe I should start keeping notes on what 
sorts of cards I get.



I just had a thought: would it be safe to assume that people who buy a 
cheapass card would be more likely to just throw it away when it becomes 
defective than people who buy more expensive cards?  Assuming most people 
don't know about data recovery services, I would think consumers who buy a 
cheap card would be more inclined to just replace it simply because they 
didn't have a large investment in it.  This is, of course, just conjecture.


John Celio

--

http://www.neovenator.com

AIM: Neopifex

Hey, I'm an artist.  I can do whatever I want and pretend I'm making a 
statement. 

Re: The Truth about Memory Cards (was: Re: Film for my digital camera)

[Glen]

At 02:15 PM 9/19/2005, Frantisek wrote:


Consider this:

http://www.datarescue.com/laboratory/cfcompare/

picture comparison of insides.

Frantisek


Okay, I'm an electronics tech. I looked at that site, and it claims that 
with merely a quick glance that you can tell that the build quality of 
one of those two cards is markedly inferior. From these images, I sure 
can't see that. I even took more than a mere glance at the images.


Even in their closeup photos of what they call welding, I can't see a 
markedly inferior level of quality. For the record, this isn't welding. 
This is soldering, and soft-soldering at that. I also want to mention that 
they have magnified what they considered a bad weld much more than what 
they call a good weld. This makes fair comparisons by the website 
visitors practically impossible.


I'm not saying that the card they call inferior isn't in some way inferior, 
but I am saying that I feel they are grossly exaggerating the differences. 
They even nag one circuit board for having a slightly crowded layout, 
which by itself doesn't have any real effect on performance or reliability 
at all.


There might be a difference, but it isn't as obvious as they want you to 
think it is -- at least, not judging from these online images.



take care,
Glen

Re: The Truth about Memory Cards (was: Re: Film for my digital camera)

[Cotty]

On 19/9/05, Godfrey DiGiorgi, discombobulated, unleashed:

This sparks a memory from the early days of Apple's Macintosh. SJ was  
riding heard on the project like an expectant hen ... the guy laying  
out the logic board was having trouble with RFI and cross-talk. SJ  
heads over to his bench one day and pronounces, Of course it has  
problems. It's not neat and tidy. Do it this way... and draws a  
nice, neat, orthogonal layout. Such was the force of the man that the  
engineer built one to his drawing. Of course, it didn't work *at all*  
that way.

In SJ's defense, he was a lot younger then... ;-)

Nice story GDG. Ta.




Cheers,
  Cotty


___/\__
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||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com
_

Re: The Truth about Memory Cards (was: Re: Film for my digital camera)

[Mark Roberts]

Cotty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

On 19/9/05, Godfrey DiGiorgi, discombobulated, unleashed:

This sparks a memory from the early days of Apple's Macintosh. SJ was  
riding heard on the project like an expectant hen ... the guy laying  
out the logic board was having trouble with RFI and cross-talk. SJ  
heads over to his bench one day and pronounces, Of course it has  
problems. It's not neat and tidy. Do it this way... and draws a  
nice, neat, orthogonal layout. Such was the force of the man that the  
engineer built one to his drawing. Of course, it didn't work *at all*  
that way.

In SJ's defense, he was a lot younger then... ;-)

Nice story GDG. Ta.

When I was service manager at a high end audio shop in Rochester, the
owner commissioned a store brand of components from a local
manufacturer (Belles Audio, if anyone remembers them). Their power amps
were good but the pre amp they designed for us was a piece of shite. I
was able to get a major improvement in signal-to-noise simply(?) by
completely re-routing the ground path on the circuit board. Of course,
it needed a *lot* more than that to become usable...
 
 
-- 
Mark Roberts
Photography and writing
www.robertstech.com

RE: The Truth about Memory Cards (was: Re: Film for my digital camera)

[Bob W]

 This sparks a memory from the early days of Apple's 
 Macintosh. SJ was 
[...]
 
 When I was service manager at a high end audio shop in 
[...]
 Of course, it needed a *lot* more than that to become usable...
  

I've just finished reading this:
http://www.granta.com/shop/product?usca_p=tproduct_id=2299

Y'all might enjoy it. Derived from:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/science/electronicbrains.shtml

Bob

Re: The Truth about Memory Cards (was: Re: Film for my digital camera)

[John Forbes]

And in the other direction you could argue that the expensive cards that  
professionals and enthusiasts buy will probably get a lot more use than  
the cheap cards bought by the ps brigade.


So you're back to square one!

John

On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 21:14:41 +0100, John Celio [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Could it not be that you see more cheapo cards because far more cheap  
cards are sold than expensive cards?


Unless you know the sales ratios, you can't form any conclusions at all  
from the number of cards coming through your workshop.


You are correct, and I did mean to address that in my original post.

Granted, the cheapass cards are bought in much higher quantities than  
the higher-end cards, but the shop I work at sees a wide range of  
customers, from grandparents who don't know diddly about digital  
watches, let alone cameras, to professional wedding photographers and  
photojournalists.  We also sell a LOT of tier 1 cards (Lexar  
Professional primarily, but our Promaster-branded cards are tier 1 cards  
from Delkin, from what I've been told).  Matter of fact, the majority of  
cards we sell are tier 1, which is why a lot of entry-level consumers  
tend to balk at their prices compared to what they can get at Costco.


Relatively speaking, it is pretty rare when a photographer comes in with  
a bad pro card, and our Promaster cards generally only come back with  
problems when the user failed to format it before using it.


So anyway, yeah, I wish I had numbers to back up what I wrote, but  
that's not really possible for me.  Maybe I should start keeping notes  
on what sorts of cards I get.



I just had a thought: would it be safe to assume that people who buy a  
cheapass card would be more likely to just throw it away when it becomes  
defective than people who buy more expensive cards?  Assuming most  
people don't know about data recovery services, I would think consumers  
who buy a cheap card would be more inclined to just replace it simply  
because they didn't have a large investment in it.  This is, of course,  
just conjecture.


John Celio

--

http://www.neovenator.com

AIM: Neopifex

Hey, I'm an artist.  I can do whatever I want and pretend I'm making a  
statement.  








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RE: The Truth about Memory Cards (was: Re: Film for my digital camera)

[Shel Belinkoff]

Hi John ...

Thanks for posting this info.

Shel 

 [Original Message]
 From: John Celio 


  Are all SD cards more or less equal, given storage volume?

 Oh god no!  Not even close.

 There are some very important things to know about memory cards before
you 
 go and buy one, but unfortunately these things can be hard to find out
from 
 the memory manufacturers.

 One of the things I do at my job is image recovery for customers whose 
 memory cards have become unreadable for whatever reason.  I get about six
or 
 seven image recovery requests per week, and I've noticed some trends:

  -- The majority of memory cards that come to me with problems are those 
 cheapass SanDisk cards that are sold just about everywhere (especially at 
 places like Costco and Wal*Mart).  Note: this group does not include
Ultra 
 or Extreme cards.
  -- The next largest group of cards to come to me are no name memory 
 cards.  No name refers to cards from a brand no one (in my lab, anyway) 
 has heard of or cards with no brand at all.  Many of these cards come
from 
 online retailers who package them with a camera to sweeten the deal, or
from 
 the customer having to purchase more memory from a tourist trap while 
 travelling.
  -- The smallest group consists of professional cards.  In the last
couple 
 weeks, I've seen two SanDisk Ultra IIs, one SanDisk Extreme, and one
Lexar 
 Professional (which is the brand I use, and which I actually rarely see
come 
 to me with problems).

 What separates these groups?

 Memory manufacturers generally have three tiers of quality, and they
affect 
 the speed and reliability of the memory in each tier.

 Tier 3: This is the cheap stuff.  Cheapass SanDisk cards fall in this 
 category, as well as most other cheapass memory you find (this includes 
 cheapass memory you can buy for your computer and whatnot).  If you were
to 
 open a tier 3 memory card, you would see more than one piece of flash 
 memory.  If, for example, you bought a 512mb card and opened it up, you 
 would most likely see four pieces of 128mb flash memory inside.  These 
 modules are cheaper to produce, and so the manufacturers produce them en 
 masse and combine them into larger capacity cards.  More memory modules 
 means higher chances of getting defective memory, as well as slower
transfer 
 rates, but lower prices.  Consumers buy this stuff because they think 
 they're getting a good deal, but in fact they're playing roulette with
their 
 data.

 Tier 2: This stuff is usually produced from a couple memory modules, but
not 
 as many as Tier 3 cards.  The modules have higher capacities (in some
cases 
 there is only one piece of memory in tier 2 cards) and are usually
produced 
 under tighter quality controls.  These cards are faster than tier 3
cards, 
 but not always as fast as Tier 1 (though they can be very fast).

 Tier 1: This is the high-end stuff.  You generally get what you pay for
with 
 tier 1 cards.  They are made from a single memory module, and are
generally 
 very fast (depending on the technology available at the time they were 
 designed, of course).  They are produced under the tightest quality 
 controls, and are often tested at the factory before being shipped. 
Lexar 
 Professional, SanDisk Extreme, and SanDisk Ultra cards fall under this 
 category, but in my experience with so many bad cards, the Lexar 
 Professional cards seem to be the most reliable (though admittedly not 
 always as fast as the SanDisk cards)


 So, after learning all this, it has become my opinion that, when buying 
 memory, one should spend the extra money and get professional-quality
stuff. 
 You really do get what you pay for.

 John Celio

RE: The truth

[ukasz Kacperczyk]

I don't know about you guys, but believe him.
ukasz
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