Re: "All you WORK are belong to us!" (Apple)

[steve harley]

on 2012-01-24 14:33 P. J. Alling wrote

A good publisher will supply an
editor, (human, not software), to shepherd your project to completion.in a form
suitable to be published.


for more perspective what benefits a publisher gives an author, check out this 
first hand account:




it gets more to the point in paragraph nine, and the last five (short) 
paragraphs are particularly telling


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Re: "All you WORK are belong to us!" (Apple)

[Paul Ewins]

On 25/01/2012, at 9:24 AM, steve harley wrote:
> for most books, the real work is in authorship; the only thing you can't sell 
> on your own is the widgety stuff, and you can make those other ways if you 
> want to; so write the book, wrap it in iBooks format, and if Apple declines 
> to sell it, you haven't given up the copyright on the text, so package it 
> some other way (even the widgety stuff can be done without Apple's tools, but 
> perhaps it will be more work)

And that is the crux of it. This isn't a multi-platform tool, it is just for 
iBooks.  If you are wanting to sell an e-book nowadays you have to reformat for 
multiple file formats and then navigate the submission processes for the 
various platforms which is not as straight forward as you might think. 
Basically, almost all of your work should be done in your favourite text editor 
(Word or whatever) and then tweaked separately for each different platform. The 
i-books app sounds like it will allow you to go a lot further than you could on 
a Kindle for instance. This is Apple's way of fighting back against Amazon's 
desire for an e-book monopoly, by allowing the author to create works that look 
much better than those on Amazon, so it is no surprise that they don't allow 
you to sell the end product outside the i-books store. It isn't a copyright 
grab, just a restriction on how you use the output of a free product. There is 
nothing stopping you using some other tool to create the same product and 
selling it elsewhere.

Paul
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Re: "All you WORK are belong to us!" (Apple)

[steve harley]

on 2012-01-24 14:33 P. J. Alling wrote

Apple doesn't do any individual work on your project.


i don't think that matters; the work Apple does is to create a process which is 
an alternative to traditional publishers, and the user must decide if the 
tradeoffs are worth it; if not, skip it — there are plenty of other options — 
but i predict there will be some very successful authors who may not have done 
so well with a traditional publisher




Apple has
almost none of the costs associated with publishing, and reaps more of the
profits.


i don't see how that would be so; do you have any idea how little most authors 
make with traditional publishers? they are lucky to get 15% of the sales, and 
there are all kinds of "ifs & whens"; if they play it well with Apple's system, 
they'll get 70%, and Apple may be able to give them a bigger market than other 
self-publishing venues


i'm a little cautious about it myself, but the theory is that the iBooks 
ecosystem will work as well as the App Store has for small app makers (some of 
whose products are actually more like interactive books); for example the maker 
of Camera+, a simple camera app, has _netted_ over $5 million in about a year 
and a half; without the help of the App Store what do you suppose this small 
company would have earned? and assuming their sales would have been anywhere 
near as high, how much more would it have cost to manage all parts of the sales 
process for 6 million units?




A good publisher will supply an
editor, (human, not software), to shepherd your project to completion.in a form
suitable to be published.


absolutely true, that's a major difference; and publishers may also decide your 
book is not worth publishing; editors need not be employed by a publisher to do 
good work, however, and i can foresee a good market for the services of 
freelance editors and iBooks packagers; even though Apple has big publishers on 
board, they are probably quite afraid that their control over the industry will 
slip; my guess is they realized it will slip whether or not they work with Apple




So without help you put your blood sweat and tears
into producing a work, which Apple's representatives decide for some reason
cannot be sold through their store.So now you've got no ability to try to sell
it on your own?


for most books, the real work is in authorship; the only thing you can't sell 
on your own is the widgety stuff, and you can make those other ways if you want 
to; so write the book, wrap it in iBooks format, and if Apple declines to sell 
it, you haven't given up the copyright on the text, so package it some other 
way (even the widgety stuff can be done without Apple's tools, but perhaps it 
will be more work)




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Re: "All you WORK are belong to us!" (Apple)

[P. J. Alling]

Apple doesn't do any individual work on your project.  For them it's 
cookie cutter.  The framework exists weather your work gets accepted or 
not.  Apple has almost none of the costs associated with publishing, and 
reaps more of the profits.  Their restrictions are, well onerous.  A 
good publisher will supply an editor, (human, not software), to shepherd 
your project to completion.in a form suitable to be published.  So 
without help you put your blood sweat and tears into producing a work, 
which Apple's representatives decide for some reason cannot be sold 
through their store.  So now you've got no ability to try to sell it on 
your own?  Bullshit.



On 1/24/2012 2:21 PM, steve harley wrote:

on 2012-01-24 11:08 P. J. Alling wrote
They're taking the prerogatives of a publisher without doing any of 
the work.


none of the work, really? it seems like Apple has a made big 
investment in the the publishing system, facilitating the process and 
offering an audience in a way different from, but clearly parallel to 
how print publishers work






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lengthily search.


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Re: "All you WORK are belong to us!" (Apple)

[steve harley]

on 2012-01-24 11:08 P. J. Alling wrote

They're taking the prerogatives of a publisher without doing any of the work.


none of the work, really? it seems like Apple has a made big investment in the 
the publishing system, facilitating the process and offering an audience in a 
way different from, but clearly parallel to how print publishers work



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Re: "All you WORK are belong to us!" (Apple)

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 10:08 AM, P. J. Alling
 wrote:
> They're taking the prerogatives of a publisher without doing any of the work.

As I mentioned previously, the iBookstore team curates, tests,
promotes and distributes submissions offered for sale. They also run
the accounting, handle customer payments, and delivers income to
authors. That is the basis of the fees charged per item sold.

What other work do you expect the iBookstore team to do for their
$0.30 on the dollar?

Oh yes:
Unlike a publisher, they don't vet whether your book is salable,
supply advances, or charge you for leftover/excess/returned inventory.
Nor do they expect you to store the excess inventory of your product,
or take a year to deliver any payments on sales, or expect you to take
returns and do reimbursements up to three years later.

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Re: "All you WORK are belong to us!" (Apple)

[P. J. Alling]

On 1/24/2012 9:34 AM, John Sessoms wrote:

From: Godfrey DiGiorgi


On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 10:43 AM, Larry Colen  wrote:


On 1/23/2012 9:26 AM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:


It's a business decision akin to signing a book contract with a
publisher on an exclusive basis, with the added bonus in that if you
don't want to sell your work, you can distribute it freely without
Apple's involvement at all, and you can transform it into a more
industry generic form and still sell it any other way you wish.


I read it that even if you transform it into an industry generic 
form, if
you used iBook author, you still have to sell it through the 
iBookstore.
Your notion seems to be in direct contradiction to this portion of 
the EULA:


"B. Distribution of your Work. As a condition of this License and
provided you are in compliance with its terms, your Work may be
distributed as follows:
(i) if your Work is provided for free (at no charge), you may
distribute the Work by any available means; ..."


However if you wish to SELL your work, you may only sell it through 
the iStore and only if Apple chooses your work to be sold.


They're taking the prerogatives of a publisher without doing any of the 
work.


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lengthily search.


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Re: "All you WORK are belong to us!" (Apple)

[John Sessoms]

From: Godfrey DiGiorgi


On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 10:43 AM, Larry Colen  wrote:


On 1/23/2012 9:26 AM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:


It's a business decision akin to signing a book contract with a
publisher on an exclusive basis, with the added bonus in that if you
don't want to sell your work, you can distribute it freely without
Apple's involvement at all, and you can transform it into a more
industry generic form and still sell it any other way you wish.


I read it that even if you transform it into an industry generic form, if
you used iBook author, you still have to sell it through the iBookstore.

Your notion seems to be in direct contradiction to this portion of the EULA:

"B. Distribution of your Work. As a condition of this License and
provided you are in compliance with its terms, your Work may be
distributed as follows:
(i) if your Work is provided for free (at no charge), you may
distribute the Work by any available means; ..."


However if you wish to SELL your work, you may only sell it through the 
iStore and only if Apple chooses your work to be sold.


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Re: "All you WORK are belong to us!" (Apple)

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

If you create a Work that has no specific components supplied by iBook
Author ... none of the iBook Author widgets or features, DRM, etc ...
then it is indistinguishable from content created by any other tools.
So if you create an iBook file and then render it to Plain Text, the
EULA's restrictions on what you can do with it are no longer
applicable because there's no way to prove that iBook Author created
it, nor is there any value in it that any other plain text editor
could not have created.

Dress it up with Word and sell it to whomever will buy it.

On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 11:25 AM, Igor Roshchin  wrote:
>
>
> Sorry, I was not very careful (as somebody else has pointed out)
> in using the language. I used "distribute" instead of "sell".
>
> Mea culpa!
> I realized it after I sent the message, and decided not to send
> the followup: I am in the middle of 2 deadlines and the
> emergency computer maintenance work.
>
> That may have contributed to a confusion.
> I believe Larry is talking about selling, while the part of the EULA
> you, Godfrey, quote is applied to free distribution.
>
>
> Igor
>
>
> Mon Jan 23 14:04:26 EST 2012
> Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:
>
> On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 10:43 AM, Larry Colen 
> wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 1/23/2012 9:26 AM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:
>>
>>> It's a business decision akin to signing a book contract with a
>>> publisher on an exclusive basis, with the added bonus in that if you
>>> don't want to sell your work, you can distribute it freely without
>>> Apple's involvement at all, and you can transform it into a more
>>> industry generic form and still sell it any other way you wish.
>>
>>
>> I read it that even if you transform it into an industry generic form,
>> if
>> you used iBook author, you still have to sell it through the
>> iBookstore.
>
> Your notion seems to be in direct contradiction to this portion of the
> EULA:
>
> "B. Distribution of your Work. As a condition of this License and
> provided you are in compliance with its terms, your Work may be
> distributed as follows:
> (i) if your Work is provided for free (at no charge), you may
> distribute the Work by any available means; ..."
>
>
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Re: "All you WORK are belong to us!" (Apple)

[Igor Roshchin]

Sorry, I was not very careful (as somebody else has pointed out)
in using the language. I used "distribute" instead of "sell".

Mea culpa!
I realized it after I sent the message, and decided not to send
the followup: I am in the middle of 2 deadlines and the 
emergency computer maintenance work. 

That may have contributed to a confusion.
I believe Larry is talking about selling, while the part of the EULA
you, Godfrey, quote is applied to free distribution.


Igor


Mon Jan 23 14:04:26 EST 2012
Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:

On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 10:43 AM, Larry Colen 
wrote:
>
>
> On 1/23/2012 9:26 AM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:
>
>> It's a business decision akin to signing a book contract with a
>> publisher on an exclusive basis, with the added bonus in that if you
>> don't want to sell your work, you can distribute it freely without
>> Apple's involvement at all, and you can transform it into a more
>> industry generic form and still sell it any other way you wish.
>
>
> I read it that even if you transform it into an industry generic form,
> if
> you used iBook author, you still have to sell it through the
> iBookstore.

Your notion seems to be in direct contradiction to this portion of the
EULA:

"B. Distribution of your Work. As a condition of this License and
provided you are in compliance with its terms, your Work may be
distributed as follows:
(i) if your Work is provided for free (at no charge), you may
distribute the Work by any available means; ..."


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Re: "All you WORK are belong to us!" (Apple)

[Mark Roberts]

Godfrey DiGiorgi  wrote:

>On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 10:43 AM, Larry Colen  wrote:
>>
>> On 1/23/2012 9:26 AM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:
>>
>>> It's a business decision akin to signing a book contract with a
>>> publisher on an exclusive basis, with the added bonus in that if you
>>> don't want to sell your work, you can distribute it freely without
>>> Apple's involvement at all, and you can transform it into a more
>>> industry generic form and still sell it any other way you wish.
>>
>> I read it that even if you transform it into an industry generic form, if
>> you used iBook author, you still have to sell it through the iBookstore.
>
>Your notion seems to be in direct contradiction to this portion of the EULA:
>
>"B. Distribution of your Work. As a condition of this License and
>provided you are in compliance with its terms, your Work may be
>distributed as follows:
>(i) if your Work is provided for free (at no charge), you may
>distribute the Work by any available means; ..."

I think Larry's notion is about *selling* the work, not providing it
free as specified in that snippet of the EULA.

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Re: "All you WORK are belong to us!" (Apple)

[P. J. Alling]

On 1/23/2012 2:04 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:

On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 10:43 AM, Larry Colen  wrote:


On 1/23/2012 9:26 AM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:


It's a business decision akin to signing a book contract with a
publisher on an exclusive basis, with the added bonus in that if you
don't want to sell your work, you can distribute it freely without
Apple's involvement at all, and you can transform it into a more
industry generic form and still sell it any other way you wish.


I read it that even if you transform it into an industry generic form, if
you used iBook author, you still have to sell it through the iBookstore.


Your notion seems to be in direct contradiction to this portion of the EULA:

"B. Distribution of your Work. As a condition of this License and
provided you are in compliance with its terms, your Work may be
distributed as follows:
(i) if your Work is provided for free (at no charge), you may
distribute the Work by any available means; ..."

Kind of defeats the purpose if you're trying to make a buck.

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lengthily search.


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Re: "All you WORK are belong to us!" (Apple)

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 10:43 AM, Larry Colen  wrote:
>
>
> On 1/23/2012 9:26 AM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:
>
>> It's a business decision akin to signing a book contract with a
>> publisher on an exclusive basis, with the added bonus in that if you
>> don't want to sell your work, you can distribute it freely without
>> Apple's involvement at all, and you can transform it into a more
>> industry generic form and still sell it any other way you wish.
>
>
> I read it that even if you transform it into an industry generic form, if
> you used iBook author, you still have to sell it through the iBookstore.

Your notion seems to be in direct contradiction to this portion of the EULA:

"B. Distribution of your Work. As a condition of this License and
provided you are in compliance with its terms, your Work may be
distributed as follows:
(i) if your Work is provided for free (at no charge), you may
distribute the Work by any available means; ..."

-- 
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  godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com

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Re: "All you WORK are belong to us!" (Apple)

[Larry Colen]

On 1/23/2012 9:26 AM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:


It's a business decision akin to signing a book contract with a
publisher on an exclusive basis, with the added bonus in that if you
don't want to sell your work, you can distribute it freely without
Apple's involvement at all, and you can transform it into a more
industry generic form and still sell it any other way you wish.


I read it that even if you transform it into an industry generic form, 
if you used iBook author, you still have to sell it through the iBookstore.




That's what I understand this EULA to be saying. I could easily be
wrong, but if this is the case I don't see what all the brouhaha is
all about. Other than that everyone really wants to use the software
and are pissed off that they can't use it and do whatever else they
please with it.  ;-)



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Re: "All you WORK are belong to us!" (Apple)

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

I don't know that they tried to "hide" it. That's reading a lot of
inflammatory brouhaha into the situation. I read EULAs every time I
consider using software for actual 'for pay' production, and I saw
these terms and conditions immediately. If you choose to do business
without reading the terms and conditions of use of software you use
for the process, you will eventually get burned.

Another way to say what this EULA means—and remember that I am not a
lawyer and can only speak for myself:

The "iBooks Author" software is a tool to create Works (by Apple's
definition of the term) to be distributed free of charge or
marketed/sold through the iBookstore. If you intend to use it for the
latter purpose, Apple owns the exclusive rights to authorize and
distribute the Works you submit for sale.

The converse complement is that if you want to produce a Work and have
full control to distribute it as you please—for free or for pay, on
your website or through a publisher, or even through the
iBookstore—the iBooks Author software is the wrong tool to choose for
that purpose.

So why use the iBooks Author software? Because it offers specific
features that you might want to take advantage of which other software
does not, and because Apple will provide product testing, curating,
distribution, marketing, and payment collection services—for which
they obtain a fee per copy sold—if you choose to sell the Work.

It's a business decision akin to signing a book contract with a
publisher on an exclusive basis, with the added bonus in that if you
don't want to sell your work, you can distribute it freely without
Apple's involvement at all, and you can transform it into a more
industry generic form and still sell it any other way you wish.

That's what I understand this EULA to be saying. I could easily be
wrong, but if this is the case I don't see what all the brouhaha is
all about. Other than that everyone really wants to use the software
and are pissed off that they can't use it and do whatever else they
please with it.  ;-)

G


On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 8:07 AM, John Sessoms  wrote:
> From: Stan Halpin
>
>
>> Sorry Igor, I have seen that thread and several other discussions in
>> the last day or two. And I still don't get what the issue is.
>
>
> If I understand it there are three things:
>
> 1. If you are doing work to sell, you may *only* sell it through the Apple
> iBooks store and Apple takes a substantial cut.
>
> 2. Apple gets to decide what books get sold through the iBooks store. If
> they don't select your work to be sold through the iBook store, you are not
> allowed to sell it elsewhere.
>
> 3. Apple tried to hide that 'gator in the swampland section of the EULA.
>
>
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Re: "All you WORK are belong to us!" (Apple)

[John Sessoms]

From: Stan Halpin


Sorry Igor, I have seen that thread and several other discussions in
the last day or two. And I still don't get what the issue is.


If I understand it there are three things:

1. If you are doing work to sell, you may *only* sell it through the 
Apple iBooks store and Apple takes a substantial cut.


2. Apple gets to decide what books get sold through the iBooks store. If 
they don't select your work to be sold through the iBook store, you are 
not allowed to sell it elsewhere.


3. Apple tried to hide that 'gator in the swampland section of the EULA.

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Re: "All you WORK are belong to us!" (Apple)

[Steven Desjardins]

Of course they are doing it to make a profit.  That's also why
organized crime extorts money from businesses.  As you point out, they
do this for their own good and not ours.

On Sun, Jan 22, 2012 at 8:56 PM, Joseph McAllister  wrote:
>
> On Jan 22, 2012, at 16:33 , Steven Desjardins wrote:
>
>> They're all wanna be evil empires.  The new buzzword is "ecosystem" so
>> that you have to commit to everything produced or at least controlled
>> by one company.  Amazon and Google are doing the same thing, and
>> Wintel is gearing up for a new run.  Of course, that doesn't mean that
>> we should all be happy about it.  It's just the current level of
>> "bastardness".
>
> Wouldn't that be "the current level of wanting to be profitable enough to 
> stay in business"?
>
> I know, we're speaking of the largest and most profitable of companies here. 
> But modern corporations learned 10-20 years ago you can't stay in business if 
> you give it away. Once they figured that out, they got greedy with those 
> profits, collecting the best aftermarket companies and bringing them inside. 
> Eventually, they saw the light of the product/consumer marriage and even 
> higher profits, almost guaranteed. They've also learned that no one found any 
> legal reason they could not pull support as they introduced newer products. 
> Software that made your hardware obsolete on odd years, hardware that made 
> your software obsolete during even years. For corporate and educational use, 
> this just about forces them to replace everything in IT to be able to compete 
> with the latest WOW stuff.
>
> But they only do this for your own good. Truth.
>
>
> Joseph McAllister
> pentax...@mac.com
>
> THE SENILITY PRAYER :
> Grant me the senility to forget the people
> I never liked anyway,
> The good fortune to run into the ones I do, and
> The eyesight to tell the difference.
>
>
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Re: "All you WORK are belong to us!" (Apple)

[Joseph McAllister]

On Jan 22, 2012, at 16:33 , Steven Desjardins wrote:

> They're all wanna be evil empires.  The new buzzword is "ecosystem" so
> that you have to commit to everything produced or at least controlled
> by one company.  Amazon and Google are doing the same thing, and
> Wintel is gearing up for a new run.  Of course, that doesn't mean that
> we should all be happy about it.  It's just the current level of
> "bastardness".

Wouldn't that be "the current level of wanting to be profitable enough to stay 
in business"?

I know, we're speaking of the largest and most profitable of companies here. 
But modern corporations learned 10-20 years ago you can't stay in business if 
you give it away. Once they figured that out, they got greedy with those 
profits, collecting the best aftermarket companies and bringing them inside. 
Eventually, they saw the light of the product/consumer marriage and even higher 
profits, almost guaranteed. They've also learned that no one found any legal 
reason they could not pull support as they introduced newer products. Software 
that made your hardware obsolete on odd years, hardware that made your software 
obsolete during even years. For corporate and educational use, this just about 
forces them to replace everything in IT to be able to compete with the latest 
WOW stuff.

But they only do this for your own good. Truth.


Joseph McAllister
pentax...@mac.com

THE SENILITY PRAYER : 
Grant me the senility to forget the people
I never liked anyway, 
The good fortune to run into the ones I do, and 
The eyesight to tell the difference. 


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Re: "All you WORK are belong to us!" (Apple)

[steve harley]

on 2012-01-22 13:50 Igor Roshchin wrote

Apple's license (EULA) forbids you from distributing your work created using
Apple software.


that's not correct; Apple forbids you from _selling_ it, but not from 
_distributing_ it (your term), outside of Apple's distribution system


the textbooks you can create are much like apps, and the restrictions here are 
a bit looser than the restrictions when you use Apple's "free" software to 
create apps; there are dozens of other ways to prepare rich content for iOS, 
not to mention other devices, so i don't think there's much chance of lock-in, 
except perhaps for a certain range of textbook publishing; textbooks are 
already an extremely closed world, and i think Apple's move may jostle that 
world bit at first, then a lot eventually — a good thing in my mind


and from what i understand this _free_ tool is pretty good; it must have cost 
Apple a lot to develop; there are lots of tools which produce output that has 
license restrictions; in this case Apple has done a pretty good job of 
lubricating the process


Apple is not the only player, by any means; aside from other corpses competing 
to create "ecosystems" (Facebook recently acquired Strobe, which was producing 
a promising commercial framework on top of SproutCore), there is also strong 
open-source action; Ember.js (SproutCore 2) and Baker, for example


that said i was underwhelmed with Apple's new offerings; i worked for years in 
book and magazine publishing, and have some ebook creation in my future, but so 
far i don't see any strong reason to use Apple's tools; it will be interesting 
to see how the publishing industry evolves but we are very very much in the 
infancy of digital publishing


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Re: "All you WORK are belong to us!" (Apple)

[Stan Halpin]

Sorry Igor, I have seen that thread and several other discussions in the last 
day or two. And I still don't get what the issue is.  Loosely paraphrasing, in 
what is not at all a novel approach (pun intended), Apple says "you use our 
free goodies to make a buck, we want a share of the profits. And we'll manage 
that process painlessly by putting the book through our store. Oh by the way, 
as with apps for our phones etc. we do have standards; if your work is 
objectionable, we don't want your business." Sounds fair to me. And I think the 
Blurb analogy is a perfect one. Both offer free software which has the purpose 
of allowing the user to make a product which will be produced/distributed 
through the supplier of the software, yielding the software provider some 
profit. Seems a good and fair business model.

BTW, I have been party to several contracts with actual publishers of actual 
books. Technical, textbook-type books. Low quantity distribution expected, and 
the publisher can only hope for break-even. So they structure the contract to 
read (again, paraphrased) "we are taking the risk, we are covering the up-front 
production/advertising/distribution costs. So we'll take [all/most of] the 
gross income from the first [1000/2000] copies. Then we'll start to give you 
authors a small percentage of the net on succeeding copies sold." I find the 
eBook business model to be much more palatable in that the share of profits 
apparently does not vary as a function of sales volume; the author gets a share 
of the income from the beginning.

IIRC, it used to be that GM, Ford, etc. expected you to do periodic maintenance 
on your vehicle in order to maintain the validity of their warranty. Any more 
they build them so well that maintenance is pretty much a moot point, but they 
used to require you to have the work done in their facility. Again IIRC that 
was stopped as an illegal restriction of trade. Someday, if Apple publishing 
gets to be a significant factor in the eBook market, then maybe they might lose 
a suit claiming unfair restriction. Right now to me I see nothing wrong with 
what they are doing or how they are going about it.

stan

On Jan 22, 2012, at 5:25 PM, Igor Roshchin wrote:

> 
> Stan,
> 
> This example is not a correct one.
> Nobody complains that a kitchen knife is not suitable to hammer nails,
> but nobody would forbid you using it for that purpose.
> 
> But if you buy a hammer at the store (or get it as a freebie), - 
> you are not going to read the instructions to see if you are not 
> allowed to use that hammer for a paid job.
> 
> While I clearly understand the motivation of Apple, but it is not
> the RIGHT WAY to implement the solution.
> If the software didn't have functionality except for submitting
> the books via Apple website, that would be one thing. i
> 
> Stan, please read the second link, - it explains what the problems are.
> They are not in the fact that Apple restricts something but rather in 
> _how_ they do that.
> 
> 
> Igor
> 
> 
> Sun Jan 22 16:41:15 EST 2012
> Stan Halpin wrote:
> 
> 
> I don't see this as a big issue. Blurb gives me free software to layout
> books to print/sell via Blurb. I can't use that software to print in any
> other way, even on my own printer. (Well, I can print, but with a big
> Blurb watermark on every page.) Anybody that doesn't want to print/sell
> exclusively via Blurb can find some other software to use. Apple offers
> free software to layout/distribute books via the Apple store. Anybody
> that doesn't want to sell exclusively via Apple can find some other
> software to use. Ho hum; no evil empire.
> 
> stan
> 
> On Jan 22, 2012, at 3:50 PM, Igor Roshchin wrote:
> 
>> 
>> 
>> Apple's license (EULA) forbids you from distributing your work created
>> using 
>> Apple software.
>> 
>> While the software discussed is not the one for photography, but for
>> writing/publishing (iBooks Author), this can create a precedence.
>> 
>> Read more about it here:
>> http://www.zdnet.com/blog/bott/apples-mind-bogglingly-greedy-and-evil-license-agreement/4360?tag=nl.e589
>> http://venomousporridge.com/post/16126436616/ibooks-author-eula-audacity
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: "All you WORK are belong to us!" (Apple)

[Steven Desjardins]

They're all wanna be evil empires.  The new buzzword is "ecosystem" so
that you have to commit to everything produced or at least controlled
by one company.  Amazon and Google are doing the same thing, and
Wintel is gearing up for a new run.  Of course, that doesn't mean that
we should all be happy about it.  It's just the current level of
"bastardness".

On Sun, Jan 22, 2012 at 5:58 PM, Christine Aguila  wrote:
> Last night while waiting for my ISP to take my call, I started a book with 
> the new iBooks Author app.  The really cool distinguishing features are the 
> widgets and their *extreme ease of use.*  In my test book, I inserted a 
> Keynote presentation using the Keynote widget; a photo with text using the 
> interactive widget; a gallery of photos using the, you guessed it, the photo 
> gallery widget;  a question with 4 multiple choice answers--identifying the 
> correct answer.  If the reader gets the wrong answer, s/he and try again.  Of 
> course, this was the question widget; The other widgets are 3D, movie, and 
> HTML.  I didn't have any content in these forms to insert.  I then exported 
> to my iBooks app, and it ran smooth as punch on my iPad.  Totally amazing.  
> While you are designing and laying out your book, you can preview your on 
> going work and any of the multimedia widgets with the iPad when it's hooked 
> up to your computer.
>
> It seems to me the reason to use this app is for its amazing widgets, and if 
> you're going to use them, then you'd need to feel fairly certain that the 
> majority of your readers would have the device capability to enjoy your 
> interactive book to the fullest.  I have no idea how an interactive book 
> produced with this app would run on, say, a Kindle or Nook device.  It runs 
> great on the iPad, and I suspect that was the main intent, and if your book 
> is only going to run great on an iPad, well then any mass distribution goals 
> might have to be reconsidered.
>
> If you're doing a book with just text and standard images or graphics, you 
> really don't need this app, though, obviously, you could still use it if you 
> wanted to.
> Cheers, Christine
>
>
>
> On Jan 22, 2012, at 4:16 PM, "P. J. Alling"  
> wrote:
>
>> So it's not quite an evil empire, it's a wanna be evil empire.
>>
>> On 1/22/2012 4:41 PM, Stan Halpin wrote:
>>> I don't see this as a big issue. Blurb gives me free software to layout 
>>> books to print/sell via Blurb. I can't use that software to print in any 
>>> other way, even on my own printer. (Well, I can print, but with a big Blurb 
>>> watermark on every page.) Anybody that doesn't want to print/sell 
>>> exclusively via Blurb can find some other software to use. Apple offers 
>>> free software to layout/distribute books via the Apple store. Anybody that 
>>> doesn't want to sell exclusively via Apple can find some other software to 
>>> use. Ho hum; no evil empire.
>>>
>>> stan
>>>
>>> On Jan 22, 2012, at 3:50 PM, Igor Roshchin wrote:
>>>

 Apple's license (EULA) forbids you from distributing your work created 
 using
 Apple software.

 While the software discussed is not the one for photography, but for
 writing/publishing (iBooks Author), this can create a precedence.

 Read more about it here:
 http://www.zdnet.com/blog/bott/apples-mind-bogglingly-greedy-and-evil-license-agreement/4360?tag=nl.e589
 http://venomousporridge.com/post/16126436616/ibooks-author-eula-audacity
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Don't lose heart!  They might want to cut it out, and they'll want to avoid 
>> a lengthily search.
>>
>>
>> --
>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
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>> follow the directions.
>>
>
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Re: "All you WORK are belong to us!" (Apple)

[Christine Aguila]

Last night while waiting for my ISP to take my call, I started a book with the 
new iBooks Author app.  The really cool distinguishing features are the widgets 
and their *extreme ease of use.*  In my test book, I inserted a Keynote 
presentation using the Keynote widget; a photo with text using the interactive 
widget; a gallery of photos using the, you guessed it, the photo gallery 
widget;  a question with 4 multiple choice answers--identifying the correct 
answer.  If the reader gets the wrong answer, s/he and try again.  Of course, 
this was the question widget; The other widgets are 3D, movie, and HTML.  I 
didn't have any content in these forms to insert.  I then exported to my iBooks 
app, and it ran smooth as punch on my iPad.  Totally amazing.  While you are 
designing and laying out your book, you can preview your on going work and any 
of the multimedia widgets with the iPad when it's hooked up to your computer.

It seems to me the reason to use this app is for its amazing widgets, and if 
you're going to use them, then you'd need to feel fairly certain that the 
majority of your readers would have the device capability to enjoy your 
interactive book to the fullest.  I have no idea how an interactive book 
produced with this app would run on, say, a Kindle or Nook device.  It runs 
great on the iPad, and I suspect that was the main intent, and if your book is 
only going to run great on an iPad, well then any mass distribution goals might 
have to be reconsidered.

If you're doing a book with just text and standard images or graphics, you 
really don't need this app, though, obviously, you could still use it if you 
wanted to.
Cheers, Christine 



On Jan 22, 2012, at 4:16 PM, "P. J. Alling"  wrote:

> So it's not quite an evil empire, it's a wanna be evil empire.
> 
> On 1/22/2012 4:41 PM, Stan Halpin wrote:
>> I don't see this as a big issue. Blurb gives me free software to layout 
>> books to print/sell via Blurb. I can't use that software to print in any 
>> other way, even on my own printer. (Well, I can print, but with a big Blurb 
>> watermark on every page.) Anybody that doesn't want to print/sell 
>> exclusively via Blurb can find some other software to use. Apple offers free 
>> software to layout/distribute books via the Apple store. Anybody that 
>> doesn't want to sell exclusively via Apple can find some other software to 
>> use. Ho hum; no evil empire.
>> 
>> stan
>> 
>> On Jan 22, 2012, at 3:50 PM, Igor Roshchin wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> Apple's license (EULA) forbids you from distributing your work created using
>>> Apple software.
>>> 
>>> While the software discussed is not the one for photography, but for
>>> writing/publishing (iBooks Author), this can create a precedence.
>>> 
>>> Read more about it here:
>>> http://www.zdnet.com/blog/bott/apples-mind-bogglingly-greedy-and-evil-license-agreement/4360?tag=nl.e589
>>> http://venomousporridge.com/post/16126436616/ibooks-author-eula-audacity
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Don't lose heart!  They might want to cut it out, and they'll want to avoid a 
> lengthily search.
> 
> 
> -- 
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> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
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Re: "All you WORK are belong to us!" (Apple)

[Igor Roshchin]

Stan,

This example is not a correct one.
Nobody complains that a kitchen knife is not suitable to hammer nails,
but nobody would forbid you using it for that purpose.

But if you buy a hammer at the store (or get it as a freebie), - 
you are not going to read the instructions to see if you are not 
allowed to use that hammer for a paid job.

While I clearly understand the motivation of Apple, but it is not
the RIGHT WAY to implement the solution.
If the software didn't have functionality except for submitting
the books via Apple website, that would be one thing. i

Stan, please read the second link, - it explains what the problems are.
They are not in the fact that Apple restricts something but rather in 
_how_ they do that.


Igor


Sun Jan 22 16:41:15 EST 2012
Stan Halpin wrote:


I don't see this as a big issue. Blurb gives me free software to layout
books to print/sell via Blurb. I can't use that software to print in any
other way, even on my own printer. (Well, I can print, but with a big
Blurb watermark on every page.) Anybody that doesn't want to print/sell
exclusively via Blurb can find some other software to use. Apple offers
free software to layout/distribute books via the Apple store. Anybody
that doesn't want to sell exclusively via Apple can find some other
software to use. Ho hum; no evil empire.

stan

On Jan 22, 2012, at 3:50 PM, Igor Roshchin wrote:

> 
> 
> Apple's license (EULA) forbids you from distributing your work created
> using 
> Apple software.
> 
> While the software discussed is not the one for photography, but for
> writing/publishing (iBooks Author), this can create a precedence.
> 
> Read more about it here:
> http://www.zdnet.com/blog/bott/apples-mind-bogglingly-greedy-and-evil-license-agreement/4360?tag=nl.e589
> http://venomousporridge.com/post/16126436616/ibooks-author-eula-audacity




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Re: "All you WORK are belong to us!" (Apple)

[P. J. Alling]

So it's not quite an evil empire, it's a wanna be evil empire.

On 1/22/2012 4:41 PM, Stan Halpin wrote:

I don't see this as a big issue. Blurb gives me free software to layout books 
to print/sell via Blurb. I can't use that software to print in any other way, 
even on my own printer. (Well, I can print, but with a big Blurb watermark on 
every page.) Anybody that doesn't want to print/sell exclusively via Blurb can 
find some other software to use. Apple offers free software to 
layout/distribute books via the Apple store. Anybody that doesn't want to sell 
exclusively via Apple can find some other software to use. Ho hum; no evil 
empire.

stan

On Jan 22, 2012, at 3:50 PM, Igor Roshchin wrote:



Apple's license (EULA) forbids you from distributing your work created using
Apple software.

While the software discussed is not the one for photography, but for
writing/publishing (iBooks Author), this can create a precedence.

Read more about it here:
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/bott/apples-mind-bogglingly-greedy-and-evil-license-agreement/4360?tag=nl.e589
http://venomousporridge.com/post/16126436616/ibooks-author-eula-audacity





--
Don't lose heart!  They might want to cut it out, and they'll want to avoid a 
lengthily search.


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Re: "All you WORK are belong to us!" (Apple)

[Stan Halpin]

I don't see this as a big issue. Blurb gives me free software to layout books 
to print/sell via Blurb. I can't use that software to print in any other way, 
even on my own printer. (Well, I can print, but with a big Blurb watermark on 
every page.) Anybody that doesn't want to print/sell exclusively via Blurb can 
find some other software to use. Apple offers free software to 
layout/distribute books via the Apple store. Anybody that doesn't want to sell 
exclusively via Apple can find some other software to use. Ho hum; no evil 
empire.

stan

On Jan 22, 2012, at 3:50 PM, Igor Roshchin wrote:

> 
> 
> Apple's license (EULA) forbids you from distributing your work created using 
> Apple software.
> 
> While the software discussed is not the one for photography, but for
> writing/publishing (iBooks Author), this can create a precedence.
> 
> Read more about it here:
> http://www.zdnet.com/blog/bott/apples-mind-bogglingly-greedy-and-evil-license-agreement/4360?tag=nl.e589
> http://venomousporridge.com/post/16126436616/ibooks-author-eula-audacity


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