Re: OT:The PDML is Dying
I also know how to trim my responses. BR >From: "Peter J. Alling" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >at least Bruce >has the ability to stay on topic. (Now that was an insult).
Re: OT:The PDML is Dying
You posted it on the Pentax Deranged Mailing List BR >From: "Anthony Farr" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >How on earth did my very mild observation about BR, and subsequent apology >for a careless allusion, warp into another insultfest.
Re: OT:The PDML is Dying
Hi, Friday, July 16, 2004, 12:51:58 PM, Anthony wrote: > A couple of hours ago I wrote, >> Bruce R. still lurks here as you've discovered, but we don't hear so much >> Nikon uber alles as we once did. >> > Since, and without checking my mail to see if anyone actually has taken > offence, I realised that I had unintentionally alluded to a repugnant > ideology. I only meant it as an expression of superiority like "Nikons Are > the Champions", "Nikon the Brave", or "My Nikons Right or Wrong". > My unreserved apologies go to Bruce Rubenstein, or anyone else who was > offended by the spectre of National Socialism. > I must try to be more careful with my choice of words. It is still part of the German national anthem. The melody is by Haydn. There is no reason to associate the words with the Nazis. http://www.serve.com/shea/germusa/dtlied.htm Most of our national anthems have rather ugly words, but few people really pay any attention to them. -- Cheers, Bob
Re: OT:The PDML is Dying
Actually his Nikon mania isn't what got to me, it was that he was extremely insulting when he wanted to be, and sometimes when he didn't. If you ignored this when he was trying he resorted to name calling, and expletives. Butch is just forgetting how long he's been here. I don't remember "the who" and I've been on this list for at least 4-5 years. (Of course I could just have a selective memory). Anthony Farr wrote: - Original Message - From: "Butch Black" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> (snip) When I came into the list 2-3 years ago the Who was making his exit, (snip) I've been around since sometime between late 1999 and early 2000. I never read "the who" as he was already long gone. Perhaps you've been here longer than you think. Bruce R. still lurks here as you've discovered, but we don't hear so much Nikon uber alles as we once did. I think that was most peoples only bugbear with BR. Most people, myself included, have trodden on toes or had toes trodden on, but most people recover from it, thankfully. regards, Anthony Farr
Re: OT:The PDML is Dying
Thanks for understanding, Bruce. As for "Pentax Sucks", apparently a lot of Pentax diehards feel the same at present. It might be all about the glass, but you gotta hang the glass on something, after all. regards, Anthony Farr - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > My knowledge of German is limited to subtitles in old war movies, but it only looks like what you wrote means something like "Nikon rules all". I don't think that putting that in German makes it offensive; although I do understand the inference. So no offense taken, no apologies needed. > > It might be potentially less offensive, and more accurate, to just state, "Pentax Sucks" > > BR >
Re: OT:The PDML is Dying
My knowledge of German is limited to subtitles in old war movies, but it only looks like what you wrote means something like "Nikon rules all". I don't think that putting that in German makes it offensive; although I do understand the inference. So no offense taken, no apologies needed. It might be potentially less offensive, and more accurate, to just state, “Pentax Sucks” BR From: "Anthony Farr" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Bruce R. still lurks here as you've discovered, but we don't hear so much > Nikon uber alles as we once did. > Since, and without checking my mail to see if anyone actually has taken offence, I realised that I had unintentionally alluded to a repugnant ideology. I only meant it as an expression of superiority like "Nikons Are the Champions", "Nikon the Brave", or "My Nikons Right or Wrong". My unreserved apologies go to Bruce Rubenstein, or anyone else who was offended by the spectre of National Socialism. I must try to be more careful with my choice of words. regards, Anthony Farr
Re: OT:The PDML is Dying
A couple of hours ago I wrote, > Bruce R. still lurks here as you've discovered, but we don't hear so much > Nikon uber alles as we once did. > Since, and without checking my mail to see if anyone actually has taken offence, I realised that I had unintentionally alluded to a repugnant ideology. I only meant it as an expression of superiority like "Nikons Are the Champions", "Nikon the Brave", or "My Nikons Right or Wrong". My unreserved apologies go to Bruce Rubenstein, or anyone else who was offended by the spectre of National Socialism. I must try to be more careful with my choice of words. regards, Anthony Farr
Re: OT:The PDML is Dying
> It happens, I suspect, anytime Pentax goes too long with a new product > for us to ponder, query each other about, and debate the merits of. I feel it's actually the opposite. The new products seem to have drawn new people with alternative POVs to the PDML. Just as talk of the new products have driven some long time PDLMers away. --- Sorry for the typo. It should have read "...anytime Pentax goes too long withOUT a new product." And btw, it was a joke. Laughing at ourselves. Okay, qualify that: laughing at MYself, so one takes offense. Joe
Re: OT:The PDML is Dying
On 15 Jul 2004 at 19:07, Joseph Tainter wrote: > It happens, I suspect, anytime Pentax goes too long with a new product > for us to ponder, query each other about, and debate the merits of. I feel it's actually the opposite. The new products seem to have drawn new people with alternative POVs to the PDML. Just as talk of the new products have driven some long time PDLMers away. Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://members.ozemail.com.au/~distudio/publications/ Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998
Re: OT:The PDML is Dying
On Jul 15, 2004, at 6:15 PM, alex wetmore wrote: On Thu, 15 Jul 2004, Joseph Tainter wrote: It happens, I suspect, anytime Pentax goes too long with a new product for us to ponder, query each other about, and debate the merits of. We just got the DA 14/2.8 and the new Optio MX and there are rumors about the new digital SLR coming in the fall. All of these have been active products recently. alex hello, i just signed up and have read your comments today. it sure is nice to speak pentax. i get tired of pretending i have any clue about the nikon canon stuff when i am talking to others photographers. anyway i shoot with a K1000, mzs, and *ist d, lenses 14 thru 600, and a contax t3 if im in a hurry. i have just returned from Sequoia National Park in california and put my 28 shift to good use on the 300 foot tall trees. does anyone have opinions(i mean EXPERIENCE) with that pentax WR digital camera. good ? bad?
Re: OT:The PDML is Dying
On Thu, 15 Jul 2004, Joseph Tainter wrote: > It happens, I suspect, anytime Pentax goes too long with a new product > for us to ponder, query each other about, and debate the merits of. We just got the DA 14/2.8 and the new Optio MX and there are rumors about the new digital SLR coming in the fall. All of these have been active products recently. alex
Re: OT:The PDML is Dying
- Original Message - From: "Joseph Tainter" Subject: Re: OT:The PDML is Dying > "The list has become insane. The evidence is there for all to read. > We've suffered a series of horrific off-topic flame wars." > > It happens, I suspect, anytime Pentax goes too long with a new product > for us to ponder, query each other about, and debate the merits of. > > Pentax: Fulfill your parental responsibility and bring out some new gear > to keep the kids amused. I suspect there is much truth to this. I recall when the last non product release happened at the Ulan Bator show, the list got a bit jumpy for a while. William Robb
Re: OT:The PDML is Dying
"The list has become insane. The evidence is there for all to read. We've suffered a series of horrific off-topic flame wars." It happens, I suspect, anytime Pentax goes too long with a new product for us to ponder, query each other about, and debate the merits of. Pentax: Fulfill your parental responsibility and bring out some new gear to keep the kids amused. Joe
Re: OT:The PDML is Dying
Hi, >>Piss off. >> >>> From: "Butch Black" >>> Bruce R. came and went. > YO! Bruce! > I just can't think who he reminds me of... http://www.bbcprograms.com/pbs/catalog/fatherted/images/0103fted.jpg Drink! Arse! Feck! Girls! -- Cheers, Bob
Re: OT:The PDML is Dying
Hah, ha, ha... Always a man of a few well-chosen words, right? Whadda guy! You're a kick, Brucey lad... keith whaley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Piss off. From: "Butch Black" Bruce R. came and went.
Re: OT:The PDML is Dying
On 15/7/04, [EMAIL PROTECTED], discombobulated, offered: >Piss off. > >> From: "Butch Black" >> Bruce R. came and went. YO! Bruce! Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|www.macads.co.uk/snaps _
Re: OT:The PDML is Dying
Piss off. > From: "Butch Black" > Bruce R. came and went.
Re: OT:The PDML is Dying
Yes and no. When I came into the list 2-3 years ago the Who was making his exit, debate as to whether the PZ-1p or the MZ-S was the better camera was common. The full frame 6 MP DSLR was still in the works, soon to be killed. There was a lot of discussion of which lenses were better then which lenses. The Brotherhood was alive and vocal with a lot of discussion of the merits of medium format. Bruce R. came and went. So, I agree with Peter that the list is not necessarily any more insane then it was. I do think we are hitting one of those peak times when the insanity is becoming intolerable. The problem with this is that every time it has happened we have lost valued members. The answer, if there is in fact is an answer, is restraint by the majority. There will always be antagonists on any unmoderated list. If we don't respond to them, the flame dies. If their real purpose is to antagonize they'll tire and go elsewhere. I have, on a few occasions, been challenged on my sig line. My response has always been to ignore the challenge, no flame war. My comments on your images: Nicely and tastefully done. I think the third image would have been stronger if the model's top straps had nor been visible. Butch Each man had only one genuine vocation - to find the way to himself. Hermann Hesse (Demian)
Re: OT:The PDML is Dying
Chaso DeChaso wrote: Can't we get back to what this list does best: debate the merits of various computer operating systems? Chaso HAR! Stephen
Re: OT:The PDML is Dying
Can't we get back to what this list does best: debate the merits of various computer operating systems? Chaso > The list has become insane. The evidence is there for all to read. We've suffered a series of horrific off-topic flame wars. Apparently, this latest religious, political, philosophical flame war was initiated by my referencing a few rather tame nudes that I had posted on one of my own web pages. I referenced them in the hope that there might be some discussion regarding their photographic merit or lack of the same. I think there were two or three posts that actually said anything at all about the photos. Several hundred subsequent posts have hurled insults back and forth in regard to the moral and ethical beliefs of various list members. Some of the list veterans blame it all on the newcomers, yet the old-timers continue to fan the flames, bragging about how they've kill filed one member or another. That, of course, incites another venemous response. This is sick. I want no part of it. I think there are some photography sites on the internet where rational discussions of photographic topics can take place. I'm going to see if I can find one. paul Stenquist = Chaso DeChaso "Less is more cheap" - Osvaldo Valdes, Architect __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: OT:The PDML is Dying
Jostein wrote: Sure hope you're right, Keith. :-) Jostein [...me too!] keith - Original Message - From: "Keith Whaley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> The list isn't dying. It just got a tummy ache for a while... keith whaley
Re: OT:The PDML is Dying
On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 13:42:33 +0200, Jostein wrote: > Sure hope you're right, Keith. :-) It's happened several times in the nearly six years I've been on the list. TTYL, DougF KG4LMZ
Re: OT:The PDML is Dying
Sure hope you're right, Keith. :-) Jostein - Original Message - From: "Keith Whaley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > The list isn't dying. > It just got a tummy ache for a while... > > keith whaley
Re: OT:The PDML is Dying
Nick Clark wrote: The Pentax Forum at dpreview isn't bad, although a disadvantage is that you have to be online to view it. It hasn't got the same energetic and friendly feel as PDML though. I just ignore topics I'm bored with ;-) Nick Right. Why punish yourself by leaving, when you can simply delete boring or otherwise unsuitable posts? Soon, the list exercises it's self-righting character, and goes on being what it always was, an interesting place to visit, where sometimes we talk about photography! I sense that happening as I type...the list is righting itself, and the rancor has essentially come to an end. The list isn't dying. It just got a tummy ache for a while... keith whaley -Original Message- From: "Jostein"<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: 15/07/04 08:14:13 To: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: OT:The PDML is Dying You're right, Paul. A community like the PDML is never worth anything more than the contributions of the people there present. I too find the recent contributions to this list too far off anything to do with photography. Please give me a hint off-list if you find a good place to hang out. That would be worth checking out. Jostein [...]
Re: OT:The PDML is Dying
Make that antagonistic and viral. On Jul 14, 2004, at 11:32 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote: I remember the Mafud wars quite well. They were antagonistic and virile, yet not so personal as the recent conflagrations. No one spoke of kill-filing members. Disagreement was rampant, yet not as personal as it is today. And I'm not speaking of my personal experience. Although I posted the images that started this, I have not suffered abuse. But others have as a result of the ensuing mess. It's becoming and "us vs. them" community. Just two days ago someone bragged that they only get messages from ten list members. Everyone else is kill-filed. That is not what constitutes a community. In regard to my own work, I no longer desire commentary on any of the images I've posted. I only want to find a pleasant place to enjoy my hobby. Paul On Jul 14, 2004, at 11:04 PM, Peter J. Alling wrote: Seems you don't remember the Mafud wars. Those were if anything worse. Part of the problem is that some of the newcomers on the list don't realize the diversity of this community we are, and that we have long ago learned to live with our differences. The list is no more insane today than it was then. So you want a commentary on the actual images you posted, here it is: I thought they were very well executed. Sensual and provocative, as they were intended to be. They would have stood on their own without the title which I'm sure helped to fan the flames. Personally I've seen more nudity than this on several beaches in the US. However I can also understand the reservations of some of the other members of this list. Some people have over reacted on both sides of the issue. Paul Stenquist wrote: The list has become insane. The evidence is there for all to read. We've suffered a series of horrific off-topic flame wars. Apparently, this latest religious, political, philosophical flame war was initiated by my referencing a few rather tame nudes that I had posted on one of my own web pages. I referenced them in the hope that there might be some discussion regarding their photographic merit or lack of the same. I think there were two or three posts that actually said anything at all about the photos. Several hundred subsequent posts have hurled insults back and forth in regard to the moral and ethical beliefs of various list members. Some of the list veterans blame it all on the newcomers, yet the old-timers continue to fan the flames, bragging about how they've kill filed one member or another. That, of course, incites another venemous response. This is sick. I want no part of it. I think there are some photography sites on the internet where rational discussions of photographic topics can take place. I'm going to see if I can find one. paul Stenquist
Re: OT:The PDML is Dying
I remember the Mafud wars quite well. They were antagonistic and virile, yet not so personal as the recent conflagrations. No one spoke of kill-filing members. Disagreement was rampant, yet not as personal as it is today. And I'm not speaking of my personal experience. Although I posted the images that started this, I have not suffered abuse. But others have as a result of the ensuing mess. It's becoming and "us vs. them" community. Just two days ago someone bragged that they only get messages from ten list members. Everyone else is kill-filed. That is not what constitutes a community. In regard to my own work, I no longer desire commentary on any of the images I've posted. I only want to find a pleasant place to enjoy my hobby. Paul On Jul 14, 2004, at 11:04 PM, Peter J. Alling wrote: Seems you don't remember the Mafud wars. Those were if anything worse. Part of the problem is that some of the newcomers on the list don't realize the diversity of this community we are, and that we have long ago learned to live with our differences. The list is no more insane today than it was then. So you want a commentary on the actual images you posted, here it is: I thought they were very well executed. Sensual and provocative, as they were intended to be. They would have stood on their own without the title which I'm sure helped to fan the flames. Personally I've seen more nudity than this on several beaches in the US. However I can also understand the reservations of some of the other members of this list. Some people have over reacted on both sides of the issue. Paul Stenquist wrote: The list has become insane. The evidence is there for all to read. We've suffered a series of horrific off-topic flame wars. Apparently, this latest religious, political, philosophical flame war was initiated by my referencing a few rather tame nudes that I had posted on one of my own web pages. I referenced them in the hope that there might be some discussion regarding their photographic merit or lack of the same. I think there were two or three posts that actually said anything at all about the photos. Several hundred subsequent posts have hurled insults back and forth in regard to the moral and ethical beliefs of various list members. Some of the list veterans blame it all on the newcomers, yet the old-timers continue to fan the flames, bragging about how they've kill filed one member or another. That, of course, incites another venemous response. This is sick. I want no part of it. I think there are some photography sites on the internet where rational discussions of photographic topics can take place. I'm going to see if I can find one. paul Stenquist
Re: OT:The PDML is Dying
Hi! PS> The list has become insane. The evidence is there for all to read. PS> We've suffered a series of horrific off-topic flame wars. Apparently, PS> this latest religious, political, philosophical flame war was initiated PS> by my referencing a few rather tame nudes that I had posted on one of PS> my own web pages. I referenced them in the hope that there might be PS> some discussion regarding their photographic merit or lack of the same. PS> I think there were two or three posts that actually said anything at PS> all about the photos. Several hundred subsequent posts have hurled PS> insults back and forth in regard to the moral and ethical beliefs of PS> various list members. Some of the list veterans blame it all on the PS> newcomers, yet the old-timers continue to fan the flames, bragging PS> about how they've kill filed one member or another. That, of course, PS> incites another venemous response. This is sick. I want no part of it. PS> I think there are some photography sites on the internet where rational PS> discussions of photographic topics can take place. I'm going to see if PS> I can find one. PS> paul Stenquist Paul, I am afraid you're right. Over roughly two years while I've been a (junior) list-member, I've managed to acquire some very good friends on the list. However, the idea of un-subscribing occupies its place in my hand for a very long time. I delete almost all non-PAW messages without reading... I agree with you. Even if PDML isn't dying, it is seriously ill. Boris ([EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: OT:The PDML is Dying
Seems you don't remember the Mafud wars. Those were if anything worse. Part of the problem is that some of the newcomers on the list don't realize the diversity of this community we are, and that we have long ago learned to live with our differences. The list is no more insane today than it was then. So you want a commentary on the actual images you posted, here it is: I thought they were very well executed. Sensual and provocative, as they were intended to be. They would have stood on their own without the title which I'm sure helped to fan the flames. Personally I've seen more nudity than this on several beaches in the US. However I can also understand the reservations of some of the other members of this list. Some people have over reacted on both sides of the issue. Paul Stenquist wrote: The list has become insane. The evidence is there for all to read. We've suffered a series of horrific off-topic flame wars. Apparently, this latest religious, political, philosophical flame war was initiated by my referencing a few rather tame nudes that I had posted on one of my own web pages. I referenced them in the hope that there might be some discussion regarding their photographic merit or lack of the same. I think there were two or three posts that actually said anything at all about the photos. Several hundred subsequent posts have hurled insults back and forth in regard to the moral and ethical beliefs of various list members. Some of the list veterans blame it all on the newcomers, yet the old-timers continue to fan the flames, bragging about how they've kill filed one member or another. That, of course, incites another venemous response. This is sick. I want no part of it. I think there are some photography sites on the internet where rational discussions of photographic topics can take place. I'm going to see if I can find one. paul Stenquist
Re: OT:The PDML is Dying
In some respects, Paul, I have to agree. Even though I was out of town for the past week and a half (still receiving pdml mail), I didn't see much to comment on. Those who join the flames can't seem to let well enough alone. When there is not a right or wrong side to the debate, just a difference of opinion, one only needs to state their opinion ONCE. On top of that, when it concerns religion, politics and Operating Systems, all opinions have been heard many times. We don't need to hear any opinions on those. Been there, done that - been there, done that - been there, done that... Having been on the list for quite a few years, I would say the list is going through one of those ugly growing/changing phases. Hopefully it will pass as others have passed and get back to what has always made this list worth participating in. The best we can do is ignore the noise and continue what is good about the list. Paul, I value your contributions very much and hope that you will at least stay around and contribute when something worth discussing comes up. Keep up the PAW's - you have an amazing talent and we can all learn from you. Bruce Wednesday, July 14, 2004, 7:18:52 PM, you wrote: PS> The list has become insane. The evidence is there for all to read. PS> We've suffered a series of horrific off-topic flame wars. Apparently, PS> this latest religious, political, philosophical flame war was initiated PS> by my referencing a few rather tame nudes that I had posted on one of PS> my own web pages. I referenced them in the hope that there might be PS> some discussion regarding their photographic merit or lack of the same. PS> I think there were two or three posts that actually said anything at PS> all about the photos. Several hundred subsequent posts have hurled PS> insults back and forth in regard to the moral and ethical beliefs of PS> various list members. Some of the list veterans blame it all on the PS> newcomers, yet the old-timers continue to fan the flames, bragging PS> about how they've kill filed one member or another. That, of course, PS> incites another venemous response. This is sick. I want no part of it. PS> I think there are some photography sites on the internet where rational PS> discussions of photographic topics can take place. I'm going to see if PS> I can find one. PS> paul Stenquist
