RE: OT - Nikon Announces 24MP APS-C DSLR - $699
From: "J.C. O'Connell" all of this assumes that the 24mp image is actually 1.5 times the resolution of the 16mp image. Its not because you would have to have an infinite resolution lens to achieve that. With the aps format, 24mp is really pushing the limits of the lensThe real solution is a larger format. hint: FF! I think Nikon already offers a FF DSLR ... oh! Did you mean Pentax? -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Nikon Announces 24MP APS-C DSLR - $699
On 4/22/2012 7:16 PM, steve harley wrote: on 2012-04-22 14:03 P. J. Alling wrote A 24mp sensor gives a liner dpi improvement in a 13x19in print of lets see, (carry the one divide by 19), 50 dpi. For that I expect that a raw file will be roughly four times the size of a K-5 file and 90% of the time the improvement imperceptible at a normal viewing distance. It's worse if you view your images on a computer screen. weird math a 24 megapixel image file, given the same effective compression, would be just under 1.5 times the size of a 16.3 megapixel K-5 file the linear improvement should be sqrt(1.5) or about 22% improvement assuming the sensors are proportioned the same; to express this as dpi, start with the K-5's output of 259 ppi across the 19 inch output size you mention (4928/19); a 24mp sensor of the same proportions would give you 318 ppi, or 59 greater "dpi" I rounded somewhere and came out 9 dpi short. That's a noticeable difference? Also square roots are not necessary, and possibly wrong, it assumes that the photo sites are square which may not be the case, however you can look up the actual numbers, they are published and simply divide the length of each side by the dimension you wish to print to find the linear resolution. The math is very simple. I have no way of knowing if the 24mp file is going to be 4 times larger but I do know that the K-5 file is roughly twice as large as a K20D file, those numbers are published. True the K20D has 12 bit color depth and the K-5 is 14,. but compression is a funny thing. You never know how it's going to be implemented. -- Don't lose heart! They might want to cut it out, and they'll want to avoid a lengthily search. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: OT - Nikon Announces 24MP APS-C DSLR - $699
all of this assumes that the 24mp image is actually 1.5 times the resolution of the 16mp image. Its not because you would have to have an infinite resolution lens to achieve that. With the aps format, 24mp is really pushing the limits of the lensThe real solution is a larger format. hint: FF! - J.C.O'Connell hifis...@gate.net - -Original Message- From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of steve harley Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2012 7:16 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: OT - Nikon Announces 24MP APS-C DSLR - $699 on 2012-04-22 14:03 P. J. Alling wrote > > A 24mp sensor gives a liner dpi improvement in a 13x19in print of lets see, > (carry the one divide by 19), 50 dpi. For that I expect that a raw file will be > roughly four times the size of a K-5 file and 90% of the time the improvement > imperceptible at a normal viewing distance. It's worse if you view your images > on a computer screen. weird math a 24 megapixel image file, given the same effective compression, would be just under 1.5 times the size of a 16.3 megapixel K-5 file the linear improvement should be sqrt(1.5) or about 22% improvement assuming the sensors are proportioned the same; to express this as dpi, start with the K-5's output of 259 ppi across the 19 inch output size you mention (4928/19); a 24mp sensor of the same proportions would give you 318 ppi, or 59 greater "dpi" -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Nikon Announces 24MP APS-C DSLR - $699
on 2012-04-22 14:03 P. J. Alling wrote A 24mp sensor gives a liner dpi improvement in a 13x19in print of lets see, (carry the one divide by 19), 50 dpi. For that I expect that a raw file will be roughly four times the size of a K-5 file and 90% of the time the improvement imperceptible at a normal viewing distance. It's worse if you view your images on a computer screen. weird math a 24 megapixel image file, given the same effective compression, would be just under 1.5 times the size of a 16.3 megapixel K-5 file the linear improvement should be sqrt(1.5) or about 22% improvement assuming the sensors are proportioned the same; to express this as dpi, start with the K-5's output of 259 ppi across the 19 inch output size you mention (4928/19); a 24mp sensor of the same proportions would give you 318 ppi, or 59 greater "dpi" -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Nikon Announces 24MP APS-C DSLR - $699
On 4/22/2012 4:10 PM, Bob W wrote: Not that I don't want higher resolution, but right now, my desktop handles K20D sized files with aplomb. Can I borrow it? I need to unblock the toilet. Spell checkers suck. B -Original Message- From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of P. J. Alling Sent: 22 April 2012 21:03 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: OT - Nikon Announces 24MP APS-C DSLR - $699 Not that I don't want higher resolution, but right now, my desktop handles K20D sized files with aplomb. It (most), probably, won't have problems with K-5 sized files, though you never know, they are at least twice as large as K20D files. My printer is capable of producing 13x19in output. that means that I need better than 200 dpi for acceptable results, (some might want 300dpi but I've noticed few images really need that much resolution), which the K20D easily provides., If fact the difference between maximum sized prints from a 14mp and 16mp sensor is cool 13 dpi in linear resolution. All that for a cost of doubling the size of the raw file. This resolution improvement is imperceptible in a finished print. I've had clients make billboard, (ok small billboard, but still), sized prints from my K20D files and from normal viewing distance they looked fine. A 24mp sensor gives a liner dpi improvement in a 13x19in print of lets see, (carry the one divide by 19), 50 dpi. For that I expect that a raw file will be roughly four times the size of a K-5 file and 90% of the time the improvement imperceptible at a normal viewing distance. It's worse if you view your images on a computer screen. I want better dynamic range and more accurate focusing, either manual or auto, before I need more megapixels. On 4/20/2012 2:25 PM, Boris Liberman wrote: On 4/20/2012 18:27, kwal...@peoplepc.com wrote: But, I wonder who really would produce a work worthy of an enlargement suitable for so many pixels? Boris, don't forget, more pixels per image captured, allow a better crop, especially helpful with wildlife shots. Certainly so, Ken. It is then that one can never have too many of these tiny little pixels, can't they? D800 is probably going to be truly a hit for Nikon. Boris -- Don't lose heart! They might want to cut it out, and they'll want to avoid a lengthily search. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Don't lose heart! They might want to cut it out, and they'll want to avoid a lengthily search. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: OT - Nikon Announces 24MP APS-C DSLR - $699
> Not that I don't want higher resolution, but right now, my desktop > handles K20D sized files with aplomb. Can I borrow it? I need to unblock the toilet. B > -Original Message- > From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of > P. J. Alling > Sent: 22 April 2012 21:03 > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > Subject: Re: OT - Nikon Announces 24MP APS-C DSLR - $699 > > Not that I don't want higher resolution, but right now, my desktop > handles K20D sized files with aplomb. It (most), probably, won't have > problems with K-5 sized files, though you never know, they are at least > twice as large as K20D files. My printer is capable of producing > 13x19in output. that means that I need better than 200 dpi for > acceptable results, (some might want 300dpi but I've noticed few images > really need that much resolution), which the K20D easily provides., If > fact the difference between maximum sized prints from a 14mp and 16mp > sensor is cool 13 dpi in linear resolution. All that for a cost of > doubling the size of the raw file. This resolution improvement is > imperceptible in a finished print. I've had clients make billboard, > (ok small billboard, but still), sized prints from my K20D files and > from normal viewing distance they looked fine. > > A 24mp sensor gives a liner dpi improvement in a 13x19in print of lets > see, (carry the one divide by 19), 50 dpi. For that I expect that a > raw file will be roughly four times the size of a K-5 file and 90% of > the time the improvement imperceptible at a normal viewing distance. > It's worse if you view your images on a computer screen. > > I want better dynamic range and more accurate focusing, either manual > or auto, before I need more megapixels. > > On 4/20/2012 2:25 PM, Boris Liberman wrote: > > On 4/20/2012 18:27, kwal...@peoplepc.com wrote: > >>> But, I wonder who really would produce a work worthy of an > >>> enlargement suitable for so many pixels? > >> > >> Boris, don't forget, more pixels per image captured, allow a better > >> crop, especially helpful with wildlife shots. > > > > Certainly so, Ken. It is then that one can never have too many of > > these tiny little pixels, can't they? > > > > D800 is probably going to be truly a hit for Nikon. > > > > Boris > > > > > > > -- > Don't lose heart! They might want to cut it out, and they'll want to > avoid a lengthily search. > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and > follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Nikon Announces 24MP APS-C DSLR - $699
Not that I don't want higher resolution, but right now, my desktop handles K20D sized files with aplomb. It (most), probably, won't have problems with K-5 sized files, though you never know, they are at least twice as large as K20D files. My printer is capable of producing 13x19in output. that means that I need better than 200 dpi for acceptable results, (some might want 300dpi but I've noticed few images really need that much resolution), which the K20D easily provides., If fact the difference between maximum sized prints from a 14mp and 16mp sensor is cool 13 dpi in linear resolution. All that for a cost of doubling the size of the raw file. This resolution improvement is imperceptible in a finished print. I've had clients make billboard, (ok small billboard, but still), sized prints from my K20D files and from normal viewing distance they looked fine. A 24mp sensor gives a liner dpi improvement in a 13x19in print of lets see, (carry the one divide by 19), 50 dpi. For that I expect that a raw file will be roughly four times the size of a K-5 file and 90% of the time the improvement imperceptible at a normal viewing distance. It's worse if you view your images on a computer screen. I want better dynamic range and more accurate focusing, either manual or auto, before I need more megapixels. On 4/20/2012 2:25 PM, Boris Liberman wrote: On 4/20/2012 18:27, kwal...@peoplepc.com wrote: But, I wonder who really would produce a work worthy of an enlargement suitable for so many pixels? Boris, don't forget, more pixels per image captured, allow a better crop, especially helpful with wildlife shots. Certainly so, Ken. It is then that one can never have too many of these tiny little pixels, can't they? D800 is probably going to be truly a hit for Nikon. Boris -- Don't lose heart! They might want to cut it out, and they'll want to avoid a lengthily search. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Nikon Announces 24MP APS-C DSLR - $699
On 4/20/2012 12:08 PM, Tom C wrote: But, I wonder who really would produce a work worthy of an enlargement suitable for so many pixels? Boris, don't forget, more pixels per image captured, allow a better crop, especially helpful with wildlife shots. Kenneth Waller I'm sure Boris knows that. :-) Do you remember when some on this list around 2005/6 asked 'why would you ever want more than the *istD? It does everything I need and more.' ? The 24MP means one could throw 3/4 the image away and have *istD resolution. With the D800, one could throw 5/6 of the image away and have *istD resolution. Not that this should encourage sloppy shooting, but in those instances where one can't get the desired angle or composition by filling the viewfinder, this is pretty nice. Tom C. There are very few lenses that will actually take advantage of that kind of photography style even with that many mp and give *ist-D quality results, and even if the lens is up to it most people's technique isn't, I know mine isn't. -- Don't lose heart! They might want to cut it out, and they'll want to avoid a lengthily search. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Nikon Announces 24MP APS-C DSLR - $699
Totally agree with Paul! Cheers, Christine On Apr 19, 2012, at 7:21 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote: > Lots of pixels are a plus, but I wouldn't want them if it gives away any high > ISO capability. If it's not the equal of the K05 at 6400, I wouldn't be > interested. > Paul > On Apr 19, 2012, at 1:43 PM, Boris Liberman wrote: > >> On 4/19/2012 20:13, Tom C wrote: >>> http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/04/19/Nikon-D3200-with-WiFi-Option >>> >> >> Tom, I should point that Samsung has announced 3 more WiFi cameras each >> having 20.5 MP APS-C sensor as well. >> >> Indeed, it appears that Nikon is presently dominating the boasting race - >> they have the most pixel count and probably few more the mosts up their >> sleeve. >> >> Good for Nikon and our fellow Nikonian photogs. >> >> BOris >> >> >> -- >> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> PDML@pdml.net >> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and >> follow the directions. > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Nikon Announces 24MP APS-C DSLR - $699
On 4/20/2012 19:08, Tom C wrote: I'm sure Boris knows that. :-) It also occurs to Boris to notice that D800 (like D700 before it) automatically goes to APS-C mode if a DX lens is mounted on it. So, in somewhat peculiar way buying D800 one buys two cameras in one, because with so many pixels you get like 18 MP APS-C camera (still beats K-5) for your DX lenses... Not sure about Nikon but if it were Pentax it would be really cool, because Pentax does have a number of very good primes in its current line up. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Nikon Announces 24MP APS-C DSLR - $699
Back in the very early days (way before the *ist-D, when I was still shooting with a PZ-1p and scanning from negatives or slides) I did some comparisons between a handful of consumer scanners and a mid-range pro scanner (a Kodak PhotoCD scanner with a competent operator). My conclusion was that while the 2400dpi or 2700dpi of the low-end units (HP PhotoSmart, Nikon Coolscan III) wasn't quite up to what I could get out of film, the major weakness of these scanners was dynamic range. It was possible to get more than 8 bits/component, but a 45MB image (at the low end 2400dpi) was ridiculously large. (And while they claimed 10-bit data, that was questionable). Sticking simply to resolution; using Fuji Provia 100F, I could just about see an improvement in scans made at 4000dpi, but by that time camera shake, focussing errors, etc. introduced much more image degradation than either the film or the scan. I did take a look at a couple of 8000dpi scans from a very high end Leaf unit; my opinion was that by the time you got to 5000dpi you were looking at the structure of the film, not at the image. These are low-end (almost entry-level) DSLRs; I'm sure they will easily outperform film-based camera systems sold into the same market segment back in the day. There again, I'm pretty sure my K-10D produced better results than most of my film-based systems. I'm absolutely convinced that the K-5 is way out ahead of the film days especially at high ISO; nowadays when I look back at some of the frames I shot on either Kodak Portra 800 or Fuji ISO 1600 I'm amazed at what passed for acceptable image quality. On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 10:13:19PM -0400, John Sessoms wrote: > That math is so simple, even I can do it. > > A 135mm film frame is 24x36 mm. Convert to inches & you get 0.94 x 1.42 > > Scan @ 4,000 dpi = 3760 x 5680 = 21,356,800 > > Divide twice by 1024 gives 20.37 MP > > I chose 4,000 dpi because that's what Nikon said the Coolscan 9000 could do. > > > From: Steven Desjardins > > >I remember a PDML post once upon a time that claimed it would take > >about 20-25 MP for digital to equal the IQ of film. > > > >On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 1:22 PM, Christine Nielsen > >wrote: > >>...available in red, no less... > >> > >> > >>-c > >> > >>On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 1:13 PM, Tom C wrote: > >>>http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/04/19/Nikon-D3200-with-WiFi-Option > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Nikon Announces 24MP APS-C DSLR - $699
On 4/20/2012 19:36, John Sessoms wrote: More pixels just gives you more to work with. If you don't need them no one is forcing you to use them. Maybe you can't produce work "worthy" of that pixel count, but you'll never find out unless you try. I'm sure there's plenty of photographers out there doing work that benefits from the high pixel count. John, that goes without saying, but the question here is - do I really need to upgrade from my K-5? At this moment I think "not". From dynamic range perspective and extensive D.R. of K-5 I've grown to appreciate, K-5 is approximately equivalent to D800. Specifically me don't produce large prints, so I am just fine with what I have. I am not implying here that D800 is not a good camera or that Tom don't need to get one. It is in fact likely to be just amazing if it operates like D700 and shoots like K-5 although it is likely to improve on both counts here. I don't know how many pixels you need to be "equivalent" to 35mm film, but I can figure out how many pixels you could actually get from scanning the film. None. I should point out that my MZ-6 is loaded with my very fist roll of Velvia that is half through. I hope to finish it soon and get it processed. There is another roll of Fuji slide film (I think it is Provia) that awaits its moment. It also scans 120/220 film, which gives something to use when thinking what MP count would be "equal" to 645 & 6x7 film for Medium Format Digital? This equivalence thing is, how to put it, good for being social among one's photographic peers... No offense or pun here, but I hope you see my point. Larry was totally right - the best way to proceed is to take one's camera and go out shooting. Man, today's evening was most enjoyable with good T-bone steak, glass of red wine, company of my wife and my daughters and 1.5 hours stroll in the evening Tel Aviv shooting with A 50/1.2... Galia by the way was shooting with her K-5 and FA 50/1.4 and she produced some good shots that we will publish soon enough too. Cheers. Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Nikon Announces 24MP APS-C DSLR - $699
On 4/20/2012 18:27, kwal...@peoplepc.com wrote: But, I wonder who really would produce a work worthy of an enlargement suitable for so many pixels? Boris, don't forget, more pixels per image captured, allow a better crop, especially helpful with wildlife shots. Certainly so, Ken. It is then that one can never have too many of these tiny little pixels, can't they? D800 is probably going to be truly a hit for Nikon. Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Nikon Announces 24MP APS-C DSLR - $699
Related to what has already been said, more pixels gives software algorithms more information to work with when interpolating (think better sharpening, for instance). -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Nikon Announces 24MP APS-C DSLR - $699
From: Boris Liberman On 4/20/2012 05:13, John Sessoms wrote: That math is so simple, even I can do it. A 135mm film frame is 24x36 mm. Convert to inches & you get 0.94 x 1.42 Scan @ 4,000 dpi = 3760 x 5680 = 21,356,800 Divide twice by 1024 gives 20.37 MP I chose 4,000 dpi because that's what Nikon said the Coolscan 9000 could do. John what easily follows from your math, that the likes of K-5 or this news 24 MP offering from Nikon (likely built after 24 MP Sony sensor) has actually smaller pixels than the above scan. It is because of the crop factor. But, I wonder who really would produce a work worthy of an enlargement suitable for so many pixels? It seems that I am pretty content with my K-5en. Boris More pixels just gives you more to work with. If you don't need them no one is forcing you to use them. Maybe you can't produce work "worthy" of that pixel count, but you'll never find out unless you try. I'm sure there's plenty of photographers out there doing work that benefits from the high pixel count. I don't know how many pixels you need to be "equivalent" to 35mm film, but I can figure out how many pixels you could actually get from scanning the film. AFAIK, the Coolscan 9000 was the last film scanner Nikon offered and is no longer in production, although you can still buy it new. It also scans 120/220 film, which gives something to use when thinking what MP count would be "equal" to 645 & 6x7 film for Medium Format Digital? -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Nikon Announces 24MP APS-C DSLR - $699
>> But, I wonder who really would produce a work worthy of an enlargement >> suitable for so many pixels? > > Boris, don't forget, more pixels per image captured, allow a better crop, > especially helpful with wildlife shots. > > Kenneth Waller I'm sure Boris knows that. :-) Do you remember when some on this list around 2005/6 asked 'why would you ever want more than the *istD? It does everything I need and more.' ? The 24MP means one could throw 3/4 the image away and have *istD resolution. With the D800, one could throw 5/6 of the image away and have *istD resolution. Not that this should encourage sloppy shooting, but in those instances where one can't get the desired angle or composition by filling the viewfinder, this is pretty nice. Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Nikon Announces 24MP APS-C DSLR - $699
But, I wonder who really would produce a work worthy of an enlargement suitable for so many pixels? Boris, don't forget, more pixels per image captured, allow a better crop, especially helpful with wildlife shots. Kenneth Waller http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller - Original Message - From: "Boris Liberman" Subject: Re: OT - Nikon Announces 24MP APS-C DSLR - $699 On 4/20/2012 05:13, John Sessoms wrote: That math is so simple, even I can do it. A 135mm film frame is 24x36 mm. Convert to inches & you get 0.94 x 1.42 Scan @ 4,000 dpi = 3760 x 5680 = 21,356,800 Divide twice by 1024 gives 20.37 MP I chose 4,000 dpi because that's what Nikon said the Coolscan 9000 could do. John what easily follows from your math, that the likes of K-5 or this news 24 MP offering from Nikon (likely built after 24 MP Sony sensor) has actually smaller pixels than the above scan. It is because of the crop factor. But, I wonder who really would produce a work worthy of an enlargement suitable for so many pixels? It seems that I am pretty content with my K-5en. Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Nikon Announces 24MP APS-C DSLR - $699
Paul Stenquist wrote: Lots of pixels are a plus, but I wouldn't want them if it gives away any high ISO capability. If it's not the equal of the K05 at 6400, I wouldn't be interested. Paul I agree. However, the D3200 will reshape the whole DSLR market from entry level (below K-r) to high midrange (K-5). Once it will be on sale (very soon), only a D800 will be a big step up from it. Now Nikon has to merge the D5X00 and D7X00 lines (and the D300x too) into a single high-midrange model over the Canon 7D and the Pentax K-5. Oh, and Canon stay warned! And Pentax... I won't tell. Dario -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Nikon Announces 24MP APS-C DSLR - $699
On 4/20/2012 05:13, John Sessoms wrote: That math is so simple, even I can do it. A 135mm film frame is 24x36 mm. Convert to inches & you get 0.94 x 1.42 Scan @ 4,000 dpi = 3760 x 5680 = 21,356,800 Divide twice by 1024 gives 20.37 MP I chose 4,000 dpi because that's what Nikon said the Coolscan 9000 could do. John what easily follows from your math, that the likes of K-5 or this news 24 MP offering from Nikon (likely built after 24 MP Sony sensor) has actually smaller pixels than the above scan. It is because of the crop factor. But, I wonder who really would produce a work worthy of an enlargement suitable for so many pixels? It seems that I am pretty content with my K-5en. Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Nikon Announces 24MP APS-C DSLR - $699
That math is so simple, even I can do it. A 135mm film frame is 24x36 mm. Convert to inches & you get 0.94 x 1.42 Scan @ 4,000 dpi = 3760 x 5680 = 21,356,800 Divide twice by 1024 gives 20.37 MP I chose 4,000 dpi because that's what Nikon said the Coolscan 9000 could do. From: Steven Desjardins I remember a PDML post once upon a time that claimed it would take about 20-25 MP for digital to equal the IQ of film. On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 1:22 PM, Christine Nielsen wrote: ...available in red, no less... -c On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 1:13 PM, Tom C wrote: http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/04/19/Nikon-D3200-with-WiFi-Option -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Nikon Announces 24MP APS-C DSLR - $699
I have to say, that the hand-wringing over Pentax seems to ignore that Ricoh only acquired Pentax in October of 2011. A certain amount of time for reorganization, melding of talent, and reacquisition of goals and decisions regarding business directions had to be made. I have the feeling that the K-01 had to be a carry-over from development decisions made at Hoya (not Ricoh). I truly believe that one must hold one's breath and judge the potential success of Pentax Ricoh Imaging by the cameras that will be introduced (and be shipping?) for the 2012 Holiday season. That means the replacements for the K-x, K-5, and ???. I do think that the PR department has fallen down on the job in the way the new lens price "policing" is going to be done. Particularly bad timing after everyone got excited over the release of the recent Lens Roadmap (something Hoya had discontinued). However, I also think that the disappointment will blow over, similar to what we do with the price of gas. We sigh and we pay it and have less for other things (or we walk). Keep in mind that the Nikon D3100 was competing with the Pentax K-x not that long ago and both are supposed to have the same Sony Exmor sensors. Therefore, I believe that if Nikon is using a 24MP sensor in it's "entry class" D3200 then I think that it is quite likely that Pentax is developing (and will be announcing) something with very similar specs (and perhaps the identical sensor) for a similar price. I believe that this camera will be a mid-range Pentax DSLR and that there will still be a model closer to the $495 price point that is truly "entry level". There should be a K-5 replacement above it. And I in my dreams I see a FF model above it, perhaps competing in the D800 space. As far as innovation goes, I think that the O-GPS1 shows that Pentax can do things that no one else has even thought of. (Whether it is a huge hit in the marketplace is a whole 'nuther matter). And I still like the fact that Pentax uses shake reduction in the body, allowing me to benefit from it even when slapping a 40 year old Takumar on my K-x. I *hate* the idea of paying for image stabilization over and over again in each lens. I guess the thing that the Nikon D3200 announcement does is give me pause on purchasing a K-5 (as we all know, so late in the life cycle). I think it would probably be prudent to see what the reviews are for the new Pentax bodies before deciding. I may still go back and buy a low mileage used K-5 but I need to see how much of a jump in technology and IQ this next round will bring. I'm sure that many will be thinking the same thing and so Pentax will soon be delivering a fresh round of rebates on the current models to clear out inventory in advance of the new models. (The lens policing policy gives Pentax room to make generous "rebates" available too.) Those of you wishing to cash in your used Pentax lenses to change manufacturers would do well to do it soon in this historic window when the gap between used and new is suddenly (and perhaps temporarily) higher. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Nikon Announces 24MP APS-C DSLR - $699
> From: John Francis > > On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 02:10:19PM -0600, Tom C wrote: >> > I believe it kills a lot of cameras, including all of the midrange Nikons. >> > I also believe Pentax has to wake up, instead of dreaming to be Leica and >> > make the K-01. >> > >> > Dario >> >> Yes. It's looking like anything under 24MP is quickly going to be passe. >> >> Tom C. > > Yeah - that Nikon D4 sure looks like a POS poseur. OK John - I concede your correctness in this matter. I was speaking far too generally. The high-frame and l would assume low-light capability of the D4 will make it highly desirable for action and low-light photography. I'll now go crawl back under the rock I came from. :) Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Nikon Announces 24MP APS-C DSLR - $699
Lots of pixels are a plus, but I wouldn't want them if it gives away any high ISO capability. If it's not the equal of the K05 at 6400, I wouldn't be interested. Paul On Apr 19, 2012, at 1:43 PM, Boris Liberman wrote: > On 4/19/2012 20:13, Tom C wrote: >> http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/04/19/Nikon-D3200-with-WiFi-Option >> > > Tom, I should point that Samsung has announced 3 more WiFi cameras each > having 20.5 MP APS-C sensor as well. > > Indeed, it appears that Nikon is presently dominating the boasting race - > they have the most pixel count and probably few more the mosts up their > sleeve. > > Good for Nikon and our fellow Nikonian photogs. > > BOris > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Nikon Announces 24MP APS-C DSLR - $699
On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 02:20:06PM -0500, Darren Addy wrote: > The wireless unit requires leaving the side door open? I can feel > Steve Jobs spinning in his grave from Nebraska. That is just bizarre. > > The price point sounds excellent, but we have no idea (at this point) > how much more the wireless unit is going to set the billfold back. $70, according to the dpreview article -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Nikon Announces 24MP APS-C DSLR - $699
Most photographers who own DSLRs don't need 24mp. Hell, most don't need 2.4mp. On the other hand it will make a lot of computer hardware manufactures happy. On 4/19/2012 1:43 PM, Boris Liberman wrote: On 4/19/2012 20:13, Tom C wrote: http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/04/19/Nikon-D3200-with-WiFi-Option Tom, I should point that Samsung has announced 3 more WiFi cameras each having 20.5 MP APS-C sensor as well. Indeed, it appears that Nikon is presently dominating the boasting race - they have the most pixel count and probably few more the mosts up their sleeve. Good for Nikon and our fellow Nikonian photogs. BOris -- Don't lose heart! They might want to cut it out, and they'll want to avoid a lengthily search. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Nikon Announces 24MP APS-C DSLR - $699
24mp is the new 6mp. On 4/19/2012 1:13 PM, Tom C wrote: http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/04/19/Nikon-D3200-with-WiFi-Option -- Don't lose heart! They might want to cut it out, and they'll want to avoid a lengthily search. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Nikon Announces 24MP APS-C DSLR - $699
The wireless unit requires leaving the side door open? I can feel Steve Jobs spinning in his grave from Nebraska. That is just bizarre. The price point sounds excellent, but we have no idea (at this point) how much more the wireless unit is going to set the billfold back. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Nikon Announces 24MP APS-C DSLR - $699
I've been expecting Live Preview capabilities to be available on phones & iPads for a while now. I almost posted my prognostications just this morning, but got busy with work "emergencies". I think DSLR feature sets (from most manufacturers) are going to move into this interconnectivity-with-our-other-devices territoriy rather rapidly. Looks like Nikon is getting there first. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Nikon Announces 24MP APS-C DSLR - $699
I believe it kills a lot of cameras, including all of the midrange Nikons. I also believe Pentax has to wake up, instead of dreaming to be Leica and make the K-01. Dario -Messaggio originale- From: Tom C Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2012 7:13 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: OT - Nikon Announces 24MP APS-C DSLR - $699 http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/04/19/Nikon-D3200-with-WiFi-Option -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. - Nessun virus nel messaggio. Controllato da AVG - www.avg.com Versione: 2012.0.1913 / Database dei virus: 2411/4946 - Data di rilascio: 19/04/2012 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Nikon Announces 24MP APS-C DSLR - $699
On 4/19/2012 20:13, Tom C wrote: http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/04/19/Nikon-D3200-with-WiFi-Option Tom, I should point that Samsung has announced 3 more WiFi cameras each having 20.5 MP APS-C sensor as well. Indeed, it appears that Nikon is presently dominating the boasting race - they have the most pixel count and probably few more the mosts up their sleeve. Good for Nikon and our fellow Nikonian photogs. BOris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Nikon Announces 24MP APS-C DSLR - $699
I remember a PDML post once upon a time that claimed it would take about 20-25 MP for digital to equal the IQ of film. On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 1:22 PM, Christine Nielsen wrote: > ...available in red, no less... > > ;) > -c > > On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 1:13 PM, Tom C wrote: >> http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/04/19/Nikon-D3200-with-WiFi-Option >> >> -- >> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> PDML@pdml.net >> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and >> follow the directions. > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- Steve Desjardins -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Nikon Announces 24MP APS-C DSLR - $699
...available in red, no less... ;) -c On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 1:13 PM, Tom C wrote: > http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/04/19/Nikon-D3200-with-WiFi-Option > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
