Re: Strobes, studio and students
lrc Tue, 24 Apr 2018 12:10:50 -0700 wrote: The other is a bunch of $10 yongnuo triggers. I've had bad luck with their "high end" speedlights, but their cheap triggers are brilliant. Is the triggers' briliance sufficient to illuminate the subject? ;-) Cheers, Igor -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Strobes, studio and students
There are a couple of low-buck solutions. One is a dumb speedlight with an IR filter over it so it doesn't affect the image. The other is a bunch of $10 yongnuo triggers. I've had bad luck with their "high end" speedlights, but their cheap triggers are brilliant. On April 22, 2018 10:46:31 AM PDT, Bruce Walker wrote: >Mark, what you experienced is one of the reasons I don't recommend >folks >try that popup flash triggering hack. The other of course is the light >pollution from the popup flash getting into the shot and flattening the >contrast. > >But you have at least two possible issues with each student's camera: >the >x-TTL pre-flash, and the "red eye reduction" pre-flash. Either or both >of >these might be enabled in any given camera. > >The xTTL preflash is usually enabled even if manual exposure is in use >because of the possibility for remote flash control. I used to use that >feature with the K20D and the K-3 as a poor man's remote trigger. No >danger >of the popup flash appearing in the shot because it doesn't fire when >the >shutter is open. > >But it only works with flashes that support a pre-flash -- manufacturer >dependent timing -- and some newer Chinese strobes that can be set to >ignore 1-n pre-flashes. > > >BTW, most PCB strobes come with a really long old-school PC-Sync cable. >That might have helped with any of the students cameras that have a >sync >socket. > >-- >-bmw >-- >PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >PDML@pdml.net >http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and >follow the directions. -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Strobes, studio and students
I had the same thoughts as what Bruce has already written, so, no reason to repeat. The only difference is that I believe preflash cannot be disabled in digital-era *-TTL. At least not with PTTL, and I don't think it was possible with the Nikon D300, D700. That preflash is the essence of how D*-TTL works: it is used for measuring the exposure. So, I'd expect that the only way to disable the preflash on a *-TTL flash is to switch it to a non-*-TTL mode. That could be the legacy-TTL mode or a "manual" (i.e. using the specified level of power output, or just full-power-and-length) flash mode. I don't know any if any camera has that implemented either of the two for the pop-up flash. I doubt, but who knows, maybe... An additional thought of what to consider: 1. You can get a cheap simple non-TTL hot-shoe flash (with a low trigger voltage!) as a trigger (for each of your students' cameras) or 2. You can probably get a *-TTL-aware slave-trigger to the lights, connecting it via a PC-sync cable. (I have not checked if such triggers exist, but I would expect they should.) This way you don't need anything added to the students' cameras. HTH, Igor Mark Roberts Mon, 23 Apr 2018 06:47:18 -0700 wrote: Bruce Walker wrote: Mark, what you experienced is one of the reasons I don't recommend folks try that popup flash triggering hack. The other of course is the light pollution from the popup flash getting into the shot and flattening the contrast. Understood. But when you have to have groups of 3-5 students shooting at once and only one radio trigger, well, optical triggering it is. But you have at least two possible issues with each student's camera: the x-TTL pre-flash, and the "red eye reduction" pre-flash. Either or both of these might be enabled in any given camera. I did check to make sure red-eye reduction was turned off. I didn't see any options for turning off X-TTL pre-flash. I may have missed it (we had a lot of different cameras, obviously) or it may not have been an option in the very cheap DSLRs the students had. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Strobes, studio and students
I've used generic Yonguo RF-602 Radio triggers in group shoots, the spill from the adjacent strobes would end up triggering the all the others regardless of the lengths taken to shield the sensors. I keep a couple of sets in my kit as the Elinchrom Skyports aren't always reliable. On 24 April 2018 at 09:50, J.C. O'Connell wrote: > although I havent used it, that looks like a good one as it has both a screw > down foot and > ttl feed thru as well as sync. > > > On Mon, 23 Apr 2018 19:13:17 -0400, John wrote: > >> >>> On 4/23/2018 09:46, Mark Roberts wrote: >> >> Sync socket? Har! Not on any of the cameras here. I'm genuinely surprised they all had manual exposure as an option. >>> >> >> Another thing ... somewhere around here I've got a little adapter that >> fits on my hot shoe & has a PC Sync socket on it as well as a pass through >> for the hot shoe. >> >> https://www.amazon.com/Vello-Universal-Hot-Shoe-Adapter/dp/B006TZ8QW4 >> >> > > > -- > J.C. O'Connell > hifis...@gate.net > - > Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and > follow the directions. -- Rob Studdert (Digital Image Studio) Tel: +61-418-166-870 UTC +10 Hours Gmail, eBay, Skype, Twitter, Facebook, Picasa: distudio -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Strobes, studio and students
although I havent used it, that looks like a good one as it has both a screw down foot and ttl feed thru as well as sync. On Mon, 23 Apr 2018 19:13:17 -0400, John wrote: On 4/23/2018 09:46, Mark Roberts wrote: Sync socket? Har! Not on any of the cameras here. I'm genuinely surprised they all had manual exposure as an option. Another thing ... somewhere around here I've got a little adapter that fits on my hot shoe & has a PC Sync socket on it as well as a pass through for the hot shoe. https://www.amazon.com/Vello-Universal-Hot-Shoe-Adapter/dp/B006TZ8QW4 -- J.C. O'Connell hifis...@gate.net - Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Strobes, studio and students
On 4/23/2018 09:46, Mark Roberts wrote: Sync socket? Har! Not on any of the cameras here. I'm genuinely surprised they all had manual exposure as an option. Another thing ... somewhere around here I've got a little adapter that fits on my hot shoe & has a PC Sync socket on it as well as a pass through for the hot shoe. https://www.amazon.com/Vello-Universal-Hot-Shoe-Adapter/dp/B006TZ8QW4 -- Science - Questions we may never find answers for. Religion - Answers we must never question. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Strobes, studio and students
I deal with that a lot at PPNC. They have shooting sessions at the convention and regional seminars. Last few years they've been switching over to systems with dedicated CaNikon modules and poor ol' Pentax shootin' me gets left behind. But almost all the new studio strobes are still PocketWizard compatible, or else the vendor hangs a PocketWizard on them as a supplementary trigger. I went out and bought a second hand PocketWizard PlusII transceiver for $60 so I can play too. That might be a semi-solution. If they're going to continue with photography, they're likely to need a radio trigger of their own anyway. The first set of cheap Chinese triggers I bought would fire the first generation PocketWizard receivers. I think you can still find them on eBay under the "CowboyStudio" name. I just looked there, and a transmitter with two receivers was under $30. On 4/23/2018 09:46, Mark Roberts wrote: Bruce Walker wrote: Mark, what you experienced is one of the reasons I don't recommend folks try that popup flash triggering hack. The other of course is the light pollution from the popup flash getting into the shot and flattening the contrast. Understood. But when you have to have groups of 3-5 students shooting at once and only one radio trigger, well, optical triggering it is. But you have at least two possible issues with each student's camera: the x-TTL pre-flash, and the "red eye reduction" pre-flash. Either or both of these might be enabled in any given camera. I did check to make sure red-eye reduction was turned off. I didn't see any options for turning off X-TTL pre-flash. I may have missed it (we had a lot of different cameras, obviously) or it may not have been an option in the very cheap DSLRs the students had. BTW, most PCB strobes come with a really long old-school PC-Sync cable. That might have helped with any of the students cameras that have a sync socket. Sync socket? Har! Not on any of the cameras here. I'm genuinely surprised they all had manual exposure as an option. -- Science - Questions we may never find answers for. Religion - Answers we must never question. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Strobes, studio and students
I was gonna say pre-flash, I've seen that before... On Sat, Apr 21, 2018 at 8:28 PM, Mark Roberts wrote: > So yesterday was "studio shoot" day for some of my photography > students (and some from another class). Needless to say, it was a > massive amount of work. But it was still fun and educational. > > Since we had to work with a lot of students we split things up and had > them shooting in groups of 3 or 4 at a time. We standardized the > lighting setup with a couple of Alien Bees with umbrellas (the school > doesn't have any soft boxes). I had every student set his/her camera > to manual exposure, ISO 100, 1/125 shutter speed and f/8. And since > the school only has one radio trigger we had everyone use their > camera's pop-up flash to optically trigger the main strobes. > > This setup worked well. Except when it didn't. Some cameras just > didn't get along with this and produced dark photos. In fact, some > (not all) produced uniformly dark shots even after changing aperture. > I'd have two students with budget Nikons set to identical > configurations and one would work perfectly and the other wouldn't. > (Unfortunately, due to the number of students coming through, I didn't > have time to make a list of cameras that exhibited the problem and > those that didn't.) > > After she shoot was all done I think I worked out what was going on: I > believe it was caused by the pre-flash that DSLRs use to meter before > the main flash. I don't know the details but I suspect the pre-flash > was triggering the studio strobes before the shutter had a chance to > open. Of course, when you're on manual exposure there's no reason for > the camera to have a pre-flash at all, but it may be left on because > the manufacturer didn't want to add additional code to the firmware > (in the case of the cheapest cameras). The cameras that seemed to > yield a uniformly dark exposure regardless of aperture may have been > operating in manual mode as far as ambient light was concerned but > modulating flash power independently. > > Anyway, we solved the problem by letting any student whose camera had > trouble shoot for a while with the radio trigger. > > Whew. A lot of work. But very gratifying in the end. Glad the > semester's almost over. > > -- > Mark Roberts - Photography & Multimedia > www.robertstech.com > > > > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- -- Photography takes an instant out of time, altering life by holding it still. Dorothea Lange -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Strobes, studio and students
Bruce Walker wrote: >Mark, what you experienced is one of the reasons I don't recommend folks >try that popup flash triggering hack. The other of course is the light >pollution from the popup flash getting into the shot and flattening the >contrast. Understood. But when you have to have groups of 3-5 students shooting at once and only one radio trigger, well, optical triggering it is. >But you have at least two possible issues with each student's camera: the >x-TTL pre-flash, and the "red eye reduction" pre-flash. Either or both of >these might be enabled in any given camera. I did check to make sure red-eye reduction was turned off. I didn't see any options for turning off X-TTL pre-flash. I may have missed it (we had a lot of different cameras, obviously) or it may not have been an option in the very cheap DSLRs the students had. >BTW, most PCB strobes come with a really long old-school PC-Sync cable. >That might have helped with any of the students cameras that have a sync >socket. Sync socket? Har! Not on any of the cameras here. I'm genuinely surprised they all had manual exposure as an option. -- Mark Roberts - Photography & Multimedia www.robertstech.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Strobes, studio and students
Using another flash to trigger studio strobes might work better with a plain old pre-TTL flash mounted on the hot-shoe. Just look for one without too high a trigger voltage. I'm partial to Vivitar 285HV myself. The older "Made in Japan" models are better than the later "Made in China" versions, which don't seem to have the same durability. On 4/22/2018 1:46 PM, Bruce Walker wrote: Mark, what you experienced is one of the reasons I don't recommend folks try that popup flash triggering hack. The other of course is the light pollution from the popup flash getting into the shot and flattening the contrast. But you have at least two possible issues with each student's camera: the x-TTL pre-flash, and the "red eye reduction" pre-flash. Either or both of these might be enabled in any given camera. The xTTL preflash is usually enabled even if manual exposure is in use because of the possibility for remote flash control. I used to use that feature with the K20D and the K-3 as a poor man's remote trigger. No danger of the popup flash appearing in the shot because it doesn't fire when the shutter is open. But it only works with flashes that support a pre-flash -- manufacturer dependent timing -- and some newer Chinese strobes that can be set to ignore 1-n pre-flashes. BTW, most PCB strobes come with a really long old-school PC-Sync cable. That might have helped with any of the students cameras that have a sync socket. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Strobes, studio and students
Mark, what you experienced is one of the reasons I don't recommend folks try that popup flash triggering hack. The other of course is the light pollution from the popup flash getting into the shot and flattening the contrast. But you have at least two possible issues with each student's camera: the x-TTL pre-flash, and the "red eye reduction" pre-flash. Either or both of these might be enabled in any given camera. The xTTL preflash is usually enabled even if manual exposure is in use because of the possibility for remote flash control. I used to use that feature with the K20D and the K-3 as a poor man's remote trigger. No danger of the popup flash appearing in the shot because it doesn't fire when the shutter is open. But it only works with flashes that support a pre-flash -- manufacturer dependent timing -- and some newer Chinese strobes that can be set to ignore 1-n pre-flashes. BTW, most PCB strobes come with a really long old-school PC-Sync cable. That might have helped with any of the students cameras that have a sync socket. -- -bmw -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Strobes, studio and students
> On 22 April 2018 at 02:28 Mark Roberts wrote: > > > So yesterday was "studio shoot" day for some of my photography > students (and some from another class). Needless to say, it was a > massive amount of work. But it was still fun and educational. > > Since we had to work with a lot of students we split things up and had > them shooting in groups of 3 or 4 at a time. We standardized the > lighting setup with a couple of Alien Bees with umbrellas (the school > doesn't have any soft boxes). I had every student set his/her camera > to manual exposure, ISO 100, 1/125 shutter speed and f/8. And since > the school only has one radio trigger we had everyone use their > camera's pop-up flash to optically trigger the main strobes. > > This setup worked well. Except when it didn't. Some cameras just > didn't get along with this and produced dark photos. In fact, some > (not all) produced uniformly dark shots even after changing aperture. > I'd have two students with budget Nikons set to identical > configurations and one would work perfectly and the other wouldn't. > (Unfortunately, due to the number of students coming through, I didn't > have time to make a list of cameras that exhibited the problem and > those that didn't.) > > After she shoot was all done I think I worked out what was going on: I > believe it was caused by the pre-flash that DSLRs use to meter before > the main flash. I don't know the details but I suspect the pre-flash > was triggering the studio strobes before the shutter had a chance to > open. Of course, when you're on manual exposure there's no reason for > the camera to have a pre-flash at all, but it may be left on because > the manufacturer didn't want to add additional code to the firmware > (in the case of the cheapest cameras). The cameras that seemed to > yield a uniformly dark exposure regardless of aperture may have been > operating in manual mode as far as ambient light was concerned but > modulating flash power independently. > > Anyway, we solved the problem by letting any student whose camera had > trouble shoot for a while with the radio trigger. > > Whew. A lot of work. But very gratifying in the end. Glad the > semester's almost over. Interesting phenomenon. If that had been me, with my present cohort, half of the studio gear would have been broken. They are getting worse as the year progresses. I can't wait for it to be over. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
