Re: Thunderbolt mac + Dell monitor = color mgt nightmare
Thanks Godfrey. As one with the inability to make decisions rapidly, like in a week or so, because of my ADD, I think, One the month before I moved I thought of hundreds of items to throw away. None of which I ran across before the actual day of the move. 26' U-Haul, packed to the ceiling and door. Now I have the leisure of looking at each thing as I unpack it. Someone already has dibs on all the darkroom equipment at some point in the future. But portable studio lighting, also a Norman kit with two or three working heads, three or four reflectors, a couple of charging methods, all packed in a Large Zero Halliburton. Speaking of old Halliburton, I still have my 1970's Polaroid NCIS kit with everything you need for close-up and AF all in a anodized black aluminum Halliburton-like case. Old computers, Hard Drives from 180MB to 300GB that I no longer use, Every single CD/DVD that software either came on or was copied to since 1990, (OS-7 anyone?), all receipts for the past 5 years in one big box. Finally, but certainly not all, enough kitchen utensiliary for 5 houses. As it is not Friday, and because I haven't found them yet in the stacks of boxes, none of the above is for sale. On Oct 16, 2012, at 13:14 , Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote: Good to hear you're getting situated in your new home. On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 10:25 PM, Joseph McAllister pentax...@mac.com wrote: Moving, alone, at 70, is not something any of you want to try. First you have to give up all control to packers and loaders, rendering nothing the way you want it, and some precious things destroyed. Then you have to try to control unloaders at the other end. You want everything where it will end up. They want to get it over with and not listen or pause long enough for me to know what a box contains. For me, the key to moving at all while retaining sanity is to have the bare minimum to move. Oh for the days when moving meant packing two boxes and dropping them at the post office, then stuffing my clothes into the tank bag on the motorcycle! -- Godfrey godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com -- Joseph McAllister pentax...@mac.com “ Nature is considerably more creative and inventive than humankind. Without Nature there isn't any humankind. Without humankind, Nature is fine.” -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Thunderbolt mac + Dell monitor = color mgt nightmare
Thanks Bruce. I are now moved. Into a house with boxes, many unlabeled, piled in rows everywhere. As I mentioned in the message you responded to, I ordered a Spyder Color 4 Pro, which arrived on the 2nd of October, but has taken a back seat to finding everything. Tested the )-whatever GPS unit from Pentax and was pleased, once I perfected the I don't give a shit method of calibration performed by the video demonstration we saw a couple of weeks ago. Found the coffee maker this morning! I will try to remember to let you know when I can actually use the probe and software on my two dissimilar monitors; my iMac has only been set up for one day, with zero external drives. So no Aperture, no iTunes, no Genealogy work. Just as well. I have boxes to unpack, items to clean, find places to store cameras, cables, clothes (9 black large garbage bags full of the laundry I did before moving), food, cooking utensils, dinnerware, etc. Then into the garage to find whatever I cannot find in the house. Moving, alone, at 70, is not something any of you want to try. First you have to give up all control to packers and loaders, rendering nothing the way you want it, and some precious things destroyed. Then you have to try to control unloaders at the other end. You want everything where it will end up. They want to get it over with and not listen or pause long enough for me to know what a box contains. Sigh… On Sep 28, 2012, at 07:39 , Bruce Walker wrote: Joseph, just before you disappear: save this link to look at after your move. http://www.homecinema-fr.com/colorimetre-hcfr/hcfr-colormeter/ It's a free colorimeter package that supports the Spyder 2. I'm playing with it to calibrate my Blu-Ray / LCD projector combo. (Datacolor wants a lot of money for the LCD projector calibration upgrade.) Best wishes for your move! -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Thunderbolt mac + Dell monitor = color mgt nightmare
Good to hear you're getting situated in your new home. On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 10:25 PM, Joseph McAllister pentax...@mac.com wrote: Moving, alone, at 70, is not something any of you want to try. First you have to give up all control to packers and loaders, rendering nothing the way you want it, and some precious things destroyed. Then you have to try to control unloaders at the other end. You want everything where it will end up. They want to get it over with and not listen or pause long enough for me to know what a box contains. For me, the key to moving at all while retaining sanity is to have the bare minimum to move. Oh for the days when moving meant packing two boxes and dropping them at the post office, then stuffing my clothes into the tank bag on the motorcycle! -- Godfrey godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Thunderbolt mac + Dell monitor = color mgt nightmare
On 29 September 2012 11:36, Larry Colen l...@red4est.com wrote: That looks promising, especially since the spyder 2 software only works with one monitor. On the Mac platform that may be the case but mine worked on multi-monitor systems from day one (which was quite some years back now). -- Rob Studdert (Digital Image Studio) Tel: +61-418-166-870 UTC +10 Hours Gmail, eBay, Skype, Twitter, Facebook, Picasa: distudio -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Thunderbolt mac + Dell monitor = color mgt nightmare
If you stare at an iMac or possibly Apple monitor fro long, you will go blind. It is bright. The problem lies in trying to match what you see to what you print. If you adjust an image to your liking with all that brightness, you end up with dark prints. Really dark prints. In my scatterbrained experience. If the brightness is turned down scientifically keeping the color values the same relative to each other, you will be lightening the image to please. In 100% brightness, it would look too bright and you'd cut the exposure. Wrong thing to do. That's where Dark Adapted comes in. It lets you control multiple monitors, each calibrated to the same values, by dimming then together, or not, and attempting (some say poorly, but not me) to keep the same values for your color spectrum. All I know for sure is 1. I love the monitor dimmed with no brilliant white blasting you in the face when you are not working images. 2. Whenever you change the monitor brightness, ganged or separately, a little grey block opens in the center of your screen with a red, green and blue dot, i … to just remind you that everything is ok, I'm doing a good job for you. Others on this list are way more into this, and may have different opinions, or different software, or hate Apple. I frankly have an older ColorVision Datacolor probe 2 ? that won't do two monitors. But all this touching on the subject pressured me into buying a new model 4 Pro yesterday, just as the chatter about AstroTracking forced me to buy a new Pentax GPS-1 unit the day before. Gotta lay off the PDML for a while and let the cards rest until I get settled into my new digs and play with my new toys. Good Luck - over and out… On Sep 27, 2012, at 17:13 , Christine Nielsen wrote: Thanks for your thoughts... I wonder about the Dark Adapted software...I'm not familiar - Do you find that you need that extra intervention to get your monitor to a low enough brightness level? Because you are working mostly in the evenings, In the dark, I assume? My editing is usually during the daytime - until 3pm, when everybody comes back home, then the party's over... On Sep 27, 2012, at 2:28 PM, Joseph McAllister pentax...@mac.com wrote: I too have both an Apple iMac 24 glossy, and an HP mate screen. I got the HP thinking it would be better for image manipulation, or watching streaming movies while I worked. In fact, I work and watch movies on the iMac, using the HP for windows, email, genealogy. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Thunderbolt mac + Dell monitor = color mgt nightmare
Thanks very much for the info. Will keep it mind, if I end up with a new monitor. Best of luck with the move! On Sep 28, 2012, at 4:37 AM, Joseph McAllister pentax...@mac.com wrote: If you stare at an iMac or possibly Apple monitor fro long, you will go blind. It is bright. The problem lies in trying to match what you see to what you print. If you adjust an image to your liking with all that brightness, you end up with dark prints. Really dark prints. In my scatterbrained experience. If the brightness is turned down scientifically keeping the color values the same relative to each other, you will be lightening the image to please. In 100% brightness, it would look too bright and you'd cut the exposure. Wrong thing to do. That's where Dark Adapted comes in. It lets you control multiple monitors, each calibrated to the same values, by dimming then together, or not, and attempting (some say poorly, but not me) to keep the same values for your color spectrum. All I know for sure is 1. I love the monitor dimmed with no brilliant white blasting you in the face when you are not working images. 2. Whenever you change the monitor brightness, ganged or separately, a little grey block opens in the center of your screen with a red, green and blue dot, i … to just remind you that everything is ok, I'm doing a good job for you. Others on this list are way more into this, and may have different opinions, or different software, or hate Apple. I frankly have an older ColorVision Datacolor probe 2 ? that won't do two monitors. But all this touching on the subject pressured me into buying a new model 4 Pro yesterday, just as the chatter about AstroTracking forced me to buy a new Pentax GPS-1 unit the day before. Gotta lay off the PDML for a while and let the cards rest until I get settled into my new digs and play with my new toys. Good Luck - over and out… On Sep 27, 2012, at 17:13 , Christine Nielsen wrote: Thanks for your thoughts... I wonder about the Dark Adapted software...I'm not familiar - Do you find that you need that extra intervention to get your monitor to a low enough brightness level? Because you are working mostly in the evenings, In the dark, I assume? My editing is usually during the daytime - until 3pm, when everybody comes back home, then the party's over... On Sep 27, 2012, at 2:28 PM, Joseph McAllister pentax...@mac.com wrote: I too have both an Apple iMac 24 glossy, and an HP mate screen. I got the HP thinking it would be better for image manipulation, or watching streaming movies while I worked. In fact, I work and watch movies on the iMac, using the HP for windows, email, genealogy. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Thunderbolt mac + Dell monitor = color mgt nightmare
Joseph, just before you disappear: save this link to look at after your move. http://www.homecinema-fr.com/colorimetre-hcfr/hcfr-colormeter/ It's a free colorimeter package that supports the Spyder 2. I'm playing with it to calibrate my Blu-Ray / LCD projector combo. (Datacolor wants a lot of money for the LCD projector calibration upgrade.) Best wishes for your move! On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 4:37 AM, Joseph McAllister pentax...@mac.com wrote: If you stare at an iMac or possibly Apple monitor fro long, you will go blind. It is bright. The problem lies in trying to match what you see to what you print. If you adjust an image to your liking with all that brightness, you end up with dark prints. Really dark prints. In my scatterbrained experience. If the brightness is turned down scientifically keeping the color values the same relative to each other, you will be lightening the image to please. In 100% brightness, it would look too bright and you'd cut the exposure. Wrong thing to do. That's where Dark Adapted comes in. It lets you control multiple monitors, each calibrated to the same values, by dimming then together, or not, and attempting (some say poorly, but not me) to keep the same values for your color spectrum. All I know for sure is 1. I love the monitor dimmed with no brilliant white blasting you in the face when you are not working images. 2. Whenever you change the monitor brightness, ganged or separately, a little grey block opens in the center of your screen with a red, green and blue dot, i … to just remind you that everything is ok, I'm doing a good job for you. Others on this list are way more into this, and may have different opinions, or different software, or hate Apple. I frankly have an older ColorVision Datacolor probe 2 ? that won't do two monitors. But all this touching on the subject pressured me into buying a new model 4 Pro yesterday, just as the chatter about AstroTracking forced me to buy a new Pentax GPS-1 unit the day before. Gotta lay off the PDML for a while and let the cards rest until I get settled into my new digs and play with my new toys. Good Luck - over and out… On Sep 27, 2012, at 17:13 , Christine Nielsen wrote: Thanks for your thoughts... I wonder about the Dark Adapted software...I'm not familiar - Do you find that you need that extra intervention to get your monitor to a low enough brightness level? Because you are working mostly in the evenings, In the dark, I assume? My editing is usually during the daytime - until 3pm, when everybody comes back home, then the party's over... On Sep 27, 2012, at 2:28 PM, Joseph McAllister pentax...@mac.com wrote: I too have both an Apple iMac 24 glossy, and an HP mate screen. I got the HP thinking it would be better for image manipulation, or watching streaming movies while I worked. In fact, I work and watch movies on the iMac, using the HP for windows, email, genealogy. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- -bmw -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Thunderbolt mac + Dell monitor = color mgt nightmare
That looks promising, especially since the spyder 2 software only works with one monitor. On Sep 28, 2012, at 7:39 AM, Bruce Walker wrote: Joseph, just before you disappear: save this link to look at after your move. http://www.homecinema-fr.com/colorimetre-hcfr/hcfr-colormeter/ It's a free colorimeter package that supports the Spyder 2. I'm playing with it to calibrate my Blu-Ray / LCD projector combo. (Datacolor wants a lot of money for the LCD projector calibration upgrade.) Best wishes for your move! On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 4:37 AM, Joseph McAllister pentax...@mac.com wrote: If you stare at an iMac or possibly Apple monitor fro long, you will go blind. It is bright. The problem lies in trying to match what you see to what you print. If you adjust an image to your liking with all that brightness, you end up with dark prints. Really dark prints. In my scatterbrained experience. If the brightness is turned down scientifically keeping the color values the same relative to each other, you will be lightening the image to please. In 100% brightness, it would look too bright and you'd cut the exposure. Wrong thing to do. That's where Dark Adapted comes in. It lets you control multiple monitors, each calibrated to the same values, by dimming then together, or not, and attempting (some say poorly, but not me) to keep the same values for your color spectrum. All I know for sure is 1. I love the monitor dimmed with no brilliant white blasting you in the face when you are not working images. 2. Whenever you change the monitor brightness, ganged or separately, a little grey block opens in the center of your screen with a red, green and blue dot, i … to just remind you that everything is ok, I'm doing a good job for you. Others on this list are way more into this, and may have different opinions, or different software, or hate Apple. I frankly have an older ColorVision Datacolor probe 2 ? that won't do two monitors. But all this touching on the subject pressured me into buying a new model 4 Pro yesterday, just as the chatter about AstroTracking forced me to buy a new Pentax GPS-1 unit the day before. Gotta lay off the PDML for a while and let the cards rest until I get settled into my new digs and play with my new toys. Good Luck - over and out… On Sep 27, 2012, at 17:13 , Christine Nielsen wrote: Thanks for your thoughts... I wonder about the Dark Adapted software...I'm not familiar - Do you find that you need that extra intervention to get your monitor to a low enough brightness level? Because you are working mostly in the evenings, In the dark, I assume? My editing is usually during the daytime - until 3pm, when everybody comes back home, then the party's over... On Sep 27, 2012, at 2:28 PM, Joseph McAllister pentax...@mac.com wrote: I too have both an Apple iMac 24 glossy, and an HP mate screen. I got the HP thinking it would be better for image manipulation, or watching streaming movies while I worked. In fact, I work and watch movies on the iMac, using the HP for windows, email, genealogy. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- -bmw -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Thunderbolt mac + Dell monitor = color mgt nightmare
Christine - I'm using an HP glossy monitor. It suppose it could be a problem if you don't have control over the light sources. My desk lamp is actually behind the monitor. The desk itself is near the center of the room so the overhead light and windows are almost behind the monitor. I always seem to be able to adjust the monitor or my position to avoid any reflections. If reflections were a significant problem they could be controlled with a hood around the bezel of the monitor. gs George Sinos gsi...@gmail.com www.georgesphotos.net plus.georgesinos.com On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 9:40 AM, Christine Nielsen ch...@inielsen.net wrote: Just a cautionary tale... This summer we replaced the older mac mini that I have been using.. the new model is equipped with Thunderbolt. Hooked it up to my Dell U3011 monitor. Been beating my head against the wall ever since, trying to get prints that match the screen. Have calibrated fiddled until the cows come home, but still get prints that look oversaturated red. Yesterday, I finally stumbled upon a setting that said the Input Color Format the monitor was receiving was YPbPr, not RGB. Setting to RGB input produces an unholy magenta freakshow of a picture. Down the rabbit hole I went Long story short, the new thunderbolt machines don't send RGB to the Dell.. or is it the Dell can only read YPbPr from the mac...? Don't know, but the thing can't be calibrated (apparently) in this situation. The problem is documented on various forums, but not much of a solution on the horizon, eg: http://en.community.dell.com/support-forums/peripherals/f/3529/p/19458525/20148889.aspx The only monitor that will work correctly with the mac appears to be the thunderbolt monitors... which are all glossy. So... just how bad would the glossy screen be? Anyone out there use one? Thoughts? As I try to decide which apparatus becomes a very expensive paperweight: the dell monitor, or the thunderbolt mac mini, it would be good to have input on that. Thanks. :( -c -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Thunderbolt mac + Dell monitor = color mgt nightmare
I have both a glossy and non-glossy in my two-monitor setup. The key to glossy is make sure that the background the monitor is facing is dark enough and with no direct reflections (eg mirrors, glass-frames) or light sources. My monitor is sitting at right angles to the only window in the room, and the wall behind me is evenly lit. The window itself is NE facing so I don't get blasted with sunlight either. Unfortunately the glossy monitor is not an IPS display so I can't use it for serious photo-editing. I use the matte IPS 2nd display for that. But photos look gorgeous on it. On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 10:40 AM, Christine Nielsen ch...@inielsen.net wrote: Just a cautionary tale... This summer we replaced the older mac mini that I have been using.. the new model is equipped with Thunderbolt. Hooked it up to my Dell U3011 monitor. Been beating my head against the wall ever since, trying to get prints that match the screen. Have calibrated fiddled until the cows come home, but still get prints that look oversaturated red. Yesterday, I finally stumbled upon a setting that said the Input Color Format the monitor was receiving was YPbPr, not RGB. Setting to RGB input produces an unholy magenta freakshow of a picture. Down the rabbit hole I went Long story short, the new thunderbolt machines don't send RGB to the Dell.. or is it the Dell can only read YPbPr from the mac...? Don't know, but the thing can't be calibrated (apparently) in this situation. The problem is documented on various forums, but not much of a solution on the horizon, eg: http://en.community.dell.com/support-forums/peripherals/f/3529/p/19458525/20148889.aspx The only monitor that will work correctly with the mac appears to be the thunderbolt monitors... which are all glossy. So... just how bad would the glossy screen be? Anyone out there use one? Thoughts? As I try to decide which apparatus becomes a very expensive paperweight: the dell monitor, or the thunderbolt mac mini, it would be good to have input on that. Thanks. :( -c -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- -bmw -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Thunderbolt mac + Dell monitor = color mgt nightmare
I have done a lot of photo editing on my MBP with a glossy screen (though do most on a 24 in Dell). If you are in a diffusely-lit room, not so bad. If there is a bright light (e.g. window or lamp) behind you or in front of you, the reflections are a PITA. Overall, a matte screen is considerably better. I really like the way Apple products work, but I +REALLY+ wish they recognized that the rest of the world exists. Cheers, Rick http://photo.net/photos/RickW - Original Message - From: Christine Nielsen ch...@inielsen.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Cc: Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 10:40 AM Subject: Thunderbolt mac + Dell monitor = color mgt nightmare Just a cautionary tale... This summer we replaced the older mac mini that I have been using.. the new model is equipped with Thunderbolt. Hooked it up to my Dell U3011 monitor. Been beating my head against the wall ever since, trying to get prints that match the screen. Have calibrated fiddled until the cows come home, but still get prints that look oversaturated red. Yesterday, I finally stumbled upon a setting that said the Input Color Format the monitor was receiving was YPbPr, not RGB. Setting to RGB input produces an unholy magenta freakshow of a picture. Down the rabbit hole I went Long story short, the new thunderbolt machines don't send RGB to the Dell.. or is it the Dell can only read YPbPr from the mac...? Don't know, but the thing can't be calibrated (apparently) in this situation. The problem is documented on various forums, but not much of a solution on the horizon, eg: http://en.community.dell.com/support-forums/peripherals/f/3529/p/19458525/20148889.aspx The only monitor that will work correctly with the mac appears to be the thunderbolt monitors... which are all glossy. So... just how bad would the glossy screen be? Anyone out there use one? Thoughts? As I try to decide which apparatus becomes a very expensive paperweight: the dell monitor, or the thunderbolt mac mini, it would be good to have input on that. Thanks. :( -c -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Thunderbolt mac + Dell monitor = color mgt nightmare
Thanks Rick, Bruce George. I appreciate your thoughts on this. Spent the last hour at the Apple store, looking at the Thunderbolt monitor. Considering taking one home for 14 days to see how it goes... but I'm not happy about it. -c On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 12:23 PM, Rick Womer rwomer1...@yahoo.com wrote: I have done a lot of photo editing on my MBP with a glossy screen (though do most on a 24 in Dell). If you are in a diffusely-lit room, not so bad. If there is a bright light (e.g. window or lamp) behind you or in front of you, the reflections are a PITA. Overall, a matte screen is considerably better. I really like the way Apple products work, but I +REALLY+ wish they recognized that the rest of the world exists. Cheers, Rick http://photo.net/photos/RickW - Original Message - From: Christine Nielsen ch...@inielsen.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Cc: Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 10:40 AM Subject: Thunderbolt mac + Dell monitor = color mgt nightmare Just a cautionary tale... This summer we replaced the older mac mini that I have been using.. the new model is equipped with Thunderbolt. Hooked it up to my Dell U3011 monitor. Been beating my head against the wall ever since, trying to get prints that match the screen. Have calibrated fiddled until the cows come home, but still get prints that look oversaturated red. Yesterday, I finally stumbled upon a setting that said the Input Color Format the monitor was receiving was YPbPr, not RGB. Setting to RGB input produces an unholy magenta freakshow of a picture. Down the rabbit hole I went Long story short, the new thunderbolt machines don't send RGB to the Dell.. or is it the Dell can only read YPbPr from the mac...? Don't know, but the thing can't be calibrated (apparently) in this situation. The problem is documented on various forums, but not much of a solution on the horizon, eg: http://en.community.dell.com/support-forums/peripherals/f/3529/p/19458525/20148889.aspx The only monitor that will work correctly with the mac appears to be the thunderbolt monitors... which are all glossy. So... just how bad would the glossy screen be? Anyone out there use one? Thoughts? As I try to decide which apparatus becomes a very expensive paperweight: the dell monitor, or the thunderbolt mac mini, it would be good to have input on that. Thanks. :( -c -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Thunderbolt mac + Dell monitor = color mgt nightmare
On 27/09/2012 16:40, Christine Nielsen wrote: So... just how bad would the glossy screen be? Anyone out there use one? Thoughts? As I try to decide which apparatus becomes a very expensive paperweight: the dell monitor, or the thunderbolt mac mini, it would be good to have input on that. Asking to choose between a Dell and a Mac is like asking to choose between a Ford Edsel and a round window De Havilland Comet. -- No fixed Adobe -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Thunderbolt mac + Dell monitor = color mgt nightmare
On Sep 27, 2012, at 9:44 AM, mike wilson wrote: On 27/09/2012 16:40, Christine Nielsen wrote: So... just how bad would the glossy screen be? Anyone out there use one? Thoughts? As I try to decide which apparatus becomes a very expensive paperweight: the dell monitor, or the thunderbolt mac mini, it would be good to have input on that. Asking to choose between a Dell and a Mac is like asking to choose between a Ford Edsel and a round window De Havilland Comet. Asking to choose between paying for a Dell and a Mac is like asking to choose between paying for a Ford Edsel and a round window De Havilland Comet. Apple makes some nice kit, but they are pretty bloody aggressive in the proprietary interface department. -- No fixed Adobe -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Thunderbolt mac + Dell monitor = color mgt nightmare
Can't help on the Dell monitor ... never owned one or worked with one. I've been working with the iMac 27, Apple Cinema Display 27 LED and Thunderbolt Display 27 as well as MacBook Pro 13 for quite a while now ... all glossy screens. As others have said, take a little care in positioning them and lighting your workspace, and they're no problem at all. If you want, you can get anti-glare overlays that reduce glare too. Here's one: http://www.radtech.us/Products/ClearCal-Displays.aspx I really like the Thunderbolt 27 display paired with the latest MacBook Air 13 ... that's a perfect combination for me. Yeah yeah ... it's expensive. So is Photography. I've spent 2x times as much on cameras and lenses in the past year, and I use the computer 20x as much as I do the cameras. ;-) G On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 7:40 AM, Christine Nielsen ch...@inielsen.net wrote: Just a cautionary tale... This summer we replaced the older mac mini that I have been using.. the new model is equipped with Thunderbolt. Hooked it up to my Dell U3011 monitor. Been beating my head against the wall ever since, trying to get prints that match the screen. Have calibrated fiddled until the cows come home, but still get prints that look oversaturated red. Yesterday, I finally stumbled upon a setting that said the Input Color Format the monitor was receiving was YPbPr, not RGB. Setting to RGB input produces an unholy magenta freakshow of a picture. Down the rabbit hole I went Long story short, the new thunderbolt machines don't send RGB to the Dell.. or is it the Dell can only read YPbPr from the mac...? Don't know, but the thing can't be calibrated (apparently) in this situation. The problem is documented on various forums, but not much of a solution on the horizon, eg: http://en.community.dell.com/support-forums/peripherals/f/3529/p/19458525/20148889.aspx The only monitor that will work correctly with the mac appears to be the thunderbolt monitors... which are all glossy. So... just how bad would the glossy screen be? Anyone out there use one? Thoughts? As I try to decide which apparatus becomes a very expensive paperweight: the dell monitor, or the thunderbolt mac mini, it would be good to have input on that. Thanks. :( -c -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Godfrey godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Thunderbolt mac + Dell monitor = color mgt nightmare
I too have both an Apple iMac 24 glossy, and an HP mate screen. I got the HP thinking it would be better for image manipulation, or watching streaming movies while I worked. In fact, I work and watch movies on the iMac, using the HP for windows, email, genealogy. There is a picture window behind me on the other side of the room. The monitors are both at a 35° angle to that window. The iMac does show reflections off anything shiny in the room during the day, so that has to be controlled, though they do not bother me. My attention is on the screen. The reflections (very few, by the way) are not even noticed. I do have the iMac screen tilted towards me just a bit so that window is off the top of the screen. If I scrunch down in my chair, there it is. Never affects my work though. I will add that all my Aperture work with photographs is done in the evening illuminated only by a single gooseneck behind me, pointed at the ceiling for the soft indirect light of a 60 watt curly fluorescent energy saving bulb. When printing, I use a Verilux lamp over the desk which only turn on to view prints, and read the fine print on anything that has fine print. It's bright. Yet another factor is that the Colorvision Spyder 2 unit I use to calibrate the iMac monitor will only see the iMac. No second monitor support unless I want to upgrade through who knows how many generational changes in the hardware and software. The uncalibrated HP comes very close to what the calibrated iMac displays. Whipping a Fuji/Andrew Darling/Kodak designed color test chart back and forth between the monitors shows me two things. The Apple monitor is slightly warmer, with less variation between them than that of my two eyes. My left is warmer. And the grey scale when seen on the HP doesn't resolve the last two blacks in a 21 step scale under my normal viewing condition. But, I have both monitors set to only 60% of intensity using Dark Adapted software. If I am going to print or work on something that will be on display on the net, it allows a closer representation of what others will see. I take the iMac up to 100% for watching a movie. Dark Adapted keeps the color of both screens balanced regardless of intensity, but I like to have detail in the darks when streaming a movie. Anything more you want to know, ask. I'm moving this weekend, so you may not get an answer for a week or so. Sorry. On Sep 27, 2012, at 09:57 , Christine Nielsen wrote: Thanks Rick, Bruce George. I appreciate your thoughts on this. Spent the last hour at the Apple store, looking at the Thunderbolt monitor. Considering taking one home for 14 days to see how it goes... but I'm not happy about it. -c On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 12:23 PM, Rick Womer rwomer1...@yahoo.com wrote: I have done a lot of photo editing on my MBP with a glossy screen (though do most on a 24 in Dell). If you are in a diffusely-lit room, not so bad. If there is a bright light (e.g. window or lamp) behind you or in front of you, the reflections are a PITA. Overall, a matte screen is considerably better. I really like the way Apple products work, but I +REALLY+ wish they recognized that the rest of the world exists. Cheers, Rick http://photo.net/photos/RickW - Original Message - From: Christine Nielsen ch...@inielsen.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Cc: Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 10:40 AM Subject: Thunderbolt mac + Dell monitor = color mgt nightmare Just a cautionary tale... This summer we replaced the older mac mini that I have been using.. the new model is equipped with Thunderbolt. Hooked it up to my Dell U3011 monitor. Been beating my head against the wall ever since, trying to get prints that match the screen. Have calibrated fiddled until the cows come home, but still get prints that look oversaturated red. Yesterday, I finally stumbled upon a setting that said the Input Color Format the monitor was receiving was YPbPr, not RGB. Setting to RGB input produces an unholy magenta freakshow of a picture. Down the rabbit hole I went Long story short, the new thunderbolt machines don't send RGB to the Dell.. or is it the Dell can only read YPbPr from the mac...? Don't know, but the thing can't be calibrated (apparently) in this situation. The problem is documented on various forums, but not much of a solution on the horizon, eg: http://en.community.dell.com/support-forums/peripherals/f/3529/p/19458525/20148889.aspx The only monitor that will work correctly with the mac appears to be the thunderbolt monitors... which are all glossy. So... just how bad would the glossy screen be? Anyone out there use one? Thoughts? As I try to decide which apparatus becomes a very expensive paperweight: the dell monitor, or the thunderbolt mac mini, it would be good to have input on that. Thanks. :( -c -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net
Re: Thunderbolt mac + Dell monitor = color mgt nightmare--possible solution
Christine, One of our IS guys said he had exactly the same problem, and solved it with a thunderbolt-dvi active adapter. Rick http://photo.net/photos/RickW - Original Message - From: Christine Nielsen ch...@inielsen.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Cc: Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 12:57 PM Subject: Re: Thunderbolt mac + Dell monitor = color mgt nightmare Thanks Rick, Bruce George. I appreciate your thoughts on this. Spent the last hour at the Apple store, looking at the Thunderbolt monitor. Considering taking one home for 14 days to see how it goes... but I'm not happy about it. -c On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 12:23 PM, Rick Womer rwomer1...@yahoo.com wrote: I have done a lot of photo editing on my MBP with a glossy screen (though do most on a 24 in Dell). If you are in a diffusely-lit room, not so bad. If there is a bright light (e.g. window or lamp) behind you or in front of you, the reflections are a PITA. Overall, a matte screen is considerably better. I really like the way Apple products work, but I +REALLY+ wish they recognized that the rest of the world exists. Cheers, Rick http://photo.net/photos/RickW - Original Message - From: Christine Nielsen ch...@inielsen.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Cc: Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 10:40 AM Subject: Thunderbolt mac + Dell monitor = color mgt nightmare Just a cautionary tale... This summer we replaced the older mac mini that I have been using.. the new model is equipped with Thunderbolt. Hooked it up to my Dell U3011 monitor. Been beating my head against the wall ever since, trying to get prints that match the screen. Have calibrated fiddled until the cows come home, but still get prints that look oversaturated red. Yesterday, I finally stumbled upon a setting that said the Input Color Format the monitor was receiving was YPbPr, not RGB. Setting to RGB input produces an unholy magenta freakshow of a picture. Down the rabbit hole I went Long story short, the new thunderbolt machines don't send RGB to the Dell.. or is it the Dell can only read YPbPr from the mac...? Don't know, but the thing can't be calibrated (apparently) in this situation. The problem is documented on various forums, but not much of a solution on the horizon, eg: http://en.community.dell.com/support-forums/peripherals/f/3529/p/19458525/20148889.aspx The only monitor that will work correctly with the mac appears to be the thunderbolt monitors... which are all glossy. So... just how bad would the glossy screen be? Anyone out there use one? Thoughts? As I try to decide which apparatus becomes a very expensive paperweight: the dell monitor, or the thunderbolt mac mini, it would be good to have input on that. Thanks. :( -c -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Thunderbolt mac + Dell monitor = color mgt nightmare
on 2012-09-27 8:40 Christine Nielsen wrote So... just how bad would the glossy screen be? Anyone out there use one? i used one for a couple of years on a 13 MacBook Pro, but now i have a 15 MacBook Pro with a matte screen, in part because of the trouble i had with the glossy screen; when traveling i often found myself in bright environments and at also work the room had bright natural light and there was a white wall behind me; the wall, and any light colored shirt i wore, would cause glare; at work i had my laptop on an Ergotron arm, so it was easy to reposition, but it was still a hassle; for one thing i often had a another person sit next to me, so we had to control even more angles; i had a 23 matte display on another arm next to the laptop, so i often just ignored the laptop screen i haven't used the 27 Thunderbolt monitor (nor its DVI predecessor), but it seems logical that it would require more lighting control than a 13 display, since it would reflect glare from more angles that said, in my home office i would still consider a 27 Thunderbolt display because the lighting is very controlled, plus with my laptop it would be much more convenient to reduce to one cable the five cables i plug in when i put my computer on my desk; but i am very glad my laptop has a matte display -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Thunderbolt mac + Dell monitor = color mgt nightmare
Thanks, Godfrey. I am encouraged. (Except for the expensive part, but what are you gonna do?) The folks at the Apple store suggested the anti-glare coatings, too... And I even read where someone was advocating taking sandpaper to the monitor glass to polish the shine away. OMG. I think I'll try living with a little shine before I resort to that! :) -c On Sep 27, 2012, at 2:13 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi gdigio...@gmail.com wrote: Can't help on the Dell monitor ... never owned one or worked with one. I've been working with the iMac 27, Apple Cinema Display 27 LED and Thunderbolt Display 27 as well as MacBook Pro 13 for quite a while now ... all glossy screens. As others have said, take a little care in positioning them and lighting your workspace, and they're no problem at all. If you want, you can get anti-glare overlays that reduce glare too. Here's one: http://www.radtech.us/Products/ClearCal-Displays.aspx I really like the Thunderbolt 27 display paired with the latest MacBook Air 13 ... that's a perfect combination for me. Yeah yeah ... it's expensive. So is Photography. I've spent 2x times as much on cameras and lenses in the past year, and I use the computer 20x as much as I do the cameras. ;-) G On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 7:40 AM, Christine Nielsen ch...@inielsen.net wrote: Just a cautionary tale... This summer we replaced the older mac mini that I have been using.. the new model is equipped with Thunderbolt. Hooked it up to my Dell U3011 monitor. Been beating my head against the wall ever since, trying to get prints that match the screen. Have calibrated fiddled until the cows come home, but still get prints that look oversaturated red. Yesterday, I finally stumbled upon a setting that said the Input Color Format the monitor was receiving was YPbPr, not RGB. Setting to RGB input produces an unholy magenta freakshow of a picture. Down the rabbit hole I went Long story short, the new thunderbolt machines don't send RGB to the Dell.. or is it the Dell can only read YPbPr from the mac...? Don't know, but the thing can't be calibrated (apparently) in this situation. The problem is documented on various forums, but not much of a solution on the horizon, eg: http://en.community.dell.com/support-forums/peripherals/f/3529/p/19458525/20148889.aspx The only monitor that will work correctly with the mac appears to be the thunderbolt monitors... which are all glossy. So... just how bad would the glossy screen be? Anyone out there use one? Thoughts? As I try to decide which apparatus becomes a very expensive paperweight: the dell monitor, or the thunderbolt mac mini, it would be good to have input on that. Thanks. :( -c -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Godfrey godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Thunderbolt mac + Dell monitor = color mgt nightmare
Thanks for your thoughts... I wonder about the Dark Adapted software...I'm not familiar - Do you find that you need that extra intervention to get your monitor to a low enough brightness level? Because you are working mostly in the evenings, In the dark, I assume? My editing is usually during the daytime - until 3pm, when everybody comes back home, then the party's over... On Sep 27, 2012, at 2:28 PM, Joseph McAllister pentax...@mac.com wrote: I too have both an Apple iMac 24 glossy, and an HP mate screen. I got the HP thinking it would be better for image manipulation, or watching streaming movies while I worked. In fact, I work and watch movies on the iMac, using the HP for windows, email, genealogy. There is a picture window behind me on the other side of the room. The monitors are both at a 35° angle to that window. The iMac does show reflections off anything shiny in the room during the day, so that has to be controlled, though they do not bother me. My attention is on the screen. The reflections (very few, by the way) are not even noticed. I do have the iMac screen tilted towards me just a bit so that window is off the top of the screen. If I scrunch down in my chair, there it is. Never affects my work though. I will add that all my Aperture work with photographs is done in the evening illuminated only by a single gooseneck behind me, pointed at the ceiling for the soft indirect light of a 60 watt curly fluorescent energy saving bulb. When printing, I use a Verilux lamp over the desk which only turn on to view prints, and read the fine print on anything that has fine print. It's bright. Yet another factor is that the Colorvision Spyder 2 unit I use to calibrate the iMac monitor will only see the iMac. No second monitor support unless I want to upgrade through who knows how many generational changes in the hardware and software. The uncalibrated HP comes very close to what the calibrated iMac displays. Whipping a Fuji/Andrew Darling/Kodak designed color test chart back and forth between the monitors shows me two things. The Apple monitor is slightly warmer, with less variation between them than that of my two eyes. My left is warmer. And the grey scale when seen on the HP doesn't resolve the last two blacks in a 21 step scale under my normal viewing condition. But, I have both monitors set to only 60% of intensity using Dark Adapted software. If I am going to print or work on something that will be on display on the net, it allows a closer representation of what others will see. I take the iMac up to 100% for watching a movie. Dark Adapted keeps the color of both screens balanced regardless of intensity, but I like to have detail in the darks when streaming a movie. Anything more you want to know, ask. I'm moving this weekend, so you may not get an answer for a week or so. Sorry. On Sep 27, 2012, at 09:57 , Christine Nielsen wrote: Thanks Rick, Bruce George. I appreciate your thoughts on this. Spent the last hour at the Apple store, looking at the Thunderbolt monitor. Considering taking one home for 14 days to see how it goes... but I'm not happy about it. -c On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 12:23 PM, Rick Womer rwomer1...@yahoo.com wrote: I have done a lot of photo editing on my MBP with a glossy screen (though do most on a 24 in Dell). If you are in a diffusely-lit room, not so bad. If there is a bright light (e.g. window or lamp) behind you or in front of you, the reflections are a PITA. Overall, a matte screen is considerably better. I really like the way Apple products work, but I +REALLY+ wish they recognized that the rest of the world exists. Cheers, Rick http://photo.net/photos/RickW - Original Message - From: Christine Nielsen ch...@inielsen.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Cc: Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 10:40 AM Subject: Thunderbolt mac + Dell monitor = color mgt nightmare Just a cautionary tale... This summer we replaced the older mac mini that I have been using.. the new model is equipped with Thunderbolt. Hooked it up to my Dell U3011 monitor. Been beating my head against the wall ever since, trying to get prints that match the screen. Have calibrated fiddled until the cows come home, but still get prints that look oversaturated red. Yesterday, I finally stumbled upon a setting that said the Input Color Format the monitor was receiving was YPbPr, not RGB. Setting to RGB input produces an unholy magenta freakshow of a picture. Down the rabbit hole I went Long story short, the new thunderbolt machines don't send RGB to the Dell.. or is it the Dell can only read YPbPr from the mac...? Don't know, but the thing can't be calibrated (apparently) in this situation. The problem is documented on various forums, but not much of a solution on the horizon, eg:
Re: Thunderbolt mac + Dell monitor = color mgt nightmare
Thanks, Stan. My lighting situations is fairly controlled, too, so I'm definitely considering the TB monitor... On Sep 27, 2012, at 3:27 PM, steve harley p...@paper-ape.com wrote: on 2012-09-27 8:40 Christine Nielsen wrote So... just how bad would the glossy screen be? Anyone out there use one? i used one for a couple of years on a 13 MacBook Pro, but now i have a 15 MacBook Pro with a matte screen, in part because of the trouble i had with the glossy screen; when traveling i often found myself in bright environments and at also work the room had bright natural light and there was a white wall behind me; the wall, and any light colored shirt i wore, would cause glare; at work i had my laptop on an Ergotron arm, so it was easy to reposition, but it was still a hassle; for one thing i often had a another person sit next to me, so we had to control even more angles; i had a 23 matte display on another arm next to the laptop, so i often just ignored the laptop screen i haven't used the 27 Thunderbolt monitor (nor its DVI predecessor), but it seems logical that it would require more lighting control than a 13 display, since it would reflect glare from more angles that said, in my home office i would still consider a 27 Thunderbolt display because the lighting is very controlled, plus with my laptop it would be much more convenient to reduce to one cable the five cables i plug in when i put my computer on my desk; but i am very glad my laptop has a matte display -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
