Re: What's in the name?
Thanks to all who contributed their thoughts to this thread! Jostein, I suspect your hypothesis might not be correct. I haven't checked etimological dictionaries, but from my knowledge of etimology (self-studied) I would expect polarizer/polariser to be derived from the verb "to polarize" (Amer.) "to polarise" (Brit.). The word exists outside of optics as well (even though the verb "to polarise" seems to be first used in optics). Some mechanical parts (e.g. a bump on a rod, or a notch inside a cilinder) that allow to "break the symmetry" are also called "polarizer". And I suspect that "polarized light filters" happen to be much later than the word "polarizer" was coined. The analogous element in optics is typically called "polarizer", and never "filter". Igor Jostein Oksne Thu, 23 Jul 2015 13:49:06 -0700 wrote: I believe "polariser" is a word created from "polarised light filter", hence PL-filter. Jostein -Opprinnelig melding- From: Igor PDML-StR Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 4:27 AM To: PDML@pdml.net Subject: What's in the name? I know that there are quite a few language and grammar geeks among PDMLers. That's why I thought I'd share this linguistic question that got me puzzled. I see that almost everybody who is talking about Circular Polarizers uses an abbreviation "CPL", either as a noun or adjective (e.g. CPL filter). The curious part is that none of the online photography articles and reviews that talks about "CPL" bothers to deabbreviate it. (Just as a reference, all scientific journals where I've published my articles require to define any abbreviation before using it for the first time, even for those that are common in the field.) So, my question is "What does the `L' in CPL stand for?" I have 3 versions of what it might be (or what photographers who use that abbreviation might mean), including a standard one that is typically used in optical methods in physics, chemistry and related areas of science. None of those 3 would be strictly speaking correct. So, I am suspecting that I might be missing something more obvious. So, what does the `L' in CPL stand for? Thank you, Igor -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: What's in the name?
I have several Nikon and A Canon that are very good. Kenneth Waller http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller - Original Message - From: "Mark Roberts" Subject: Re: What's in the name? Daniel J. Matyola wrote: On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 7:34 PM, Ken Waller wrote: Similarily, there are single element 'close up' lenses that are only one element like a filter and they screw on like a filter but are called lenses. Yes! I have one of those someplace, but I haven't used it for 15 or 20 years. The best ones are two elements cemented together and are achromatic. Pentax made some really good ones, of which I have a couple in 77mm thread. Quite useful when you don't want to carry a dedicated macro lens. I've also got a Sigme 2-element close-up lens in 58mm size and it's very, very good. -- Mark Roberts - Photography & Multimedia www.robertstech.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: What's in the name?
Daniel J. Matyola wrote: >On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 7:34 PM, Ken Waller wrote: >> Similarily, there are single element 'close up' lenses that are only one >> element like a filter and they screw on like a filter but are called lenses. > >Yes! I have one of those someplace, but I haven't used it for 15 or 20 years. The best ones are two elements cemented together and are achromatic. Pentax made some really good ones, of which I have a couple in 77mm thread. Quite useful when you don't want to carry a dedicated macro lens. I've also got a Sigme 2-element close-up lens in 58mm size and it's very, very good. -- Mark Roberts - Photography & Multimedia www.robertstech.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: What's in the name?
On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 7:34 PM, Ken Waller wrote: > Similarily, there are single element 'close up' lenses that are only one > element like a filter and they screw on like a filter but are called lenses. Yes! I have one of those someplace, but I haven't used it for 15 or 20 years. Dan Matyola http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: What's in the name?
Similarily, there are single element 'close up' lenses that are only one element like a filter and they screw on like a filter but are called lenses. Kenneth Waller http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller - Original Message - From: "Daniel J. Matyola" Subject: Re: What's in the name? I understand that Igor. Despite what evidences of ignorance I may post here, I do know the difference between a lens and a filter. I had assumed that the terminology originated when it was first applied to a lens that had the polarizing built into the lens itself, and that was later replaced by a filter that could be uses on any lens of an appropriate diameter. Dan Matyola http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 11:33 AM, Igor PDML-StR wrote: Dan, And I assume you know why that would be incorrect usage? Because (hopefully!) no "lensing" occurs in a filter (which is supposed to have flat, plane-parallel surfaces). Cheers, Igor Daniel J. Matyola Thu, 23 Jul 2015 07:36:01 -0700 wrote: I thought that "PL" stood for "polarizing lens." Dan Matyola http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 10:32 AM, Igor PDML-StR wrote: <...> Now, my 3 guesses that I mentioned yesterday but didn't write to avoid any bias were: lens, light, and luminescence that would be in the scientific term "circularly polarized luminescence". Obviously, none of these would be correct in "CPL filter". Igor -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: What's in the name?
I believe "polariser" is a word created from "polarised light filter", hence PL-filter. Jostein -Opprinnelig melding- From: Igor PDML-StR Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 4:27 AM To: PDML@pdml.net Subject: What's in the name? I know that there are quite a few language and grammar geeks among PDMLers. That's why I thought I'd share this linguistic question that got me puzzled. I see that almost everybody who is talking about Circular Polarizers uses an abbreviation "CPL", either as a noun or adjective (e.g. CPL filter). The curious part is that none of the online photography articles and reviews that talks about "CPL" bothers to deabbreviate it. (Just as a reference, all scientific journals where I've published my articles require to define any abbreviation before using it for the first time, even for those that are common in the field.) So, my question is "What does the `L' in CPL stand for?" I have 3 versions of what it might be (or what photographers who use that abbreviation might mean), including a standard one that is typically used in optical methods in physics, chemistry and related areas of science. None of those 3 would be strictly speaking correct. So, I am suspecting that I might be missing something more obvious. So, what does the `L' in CPL stand for? Thank you, Igor -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: What's in the name?
Never thought about it. PL was the label on filter boxes that contained polarizing filters when I worked the camera counter, just like O, G, A, Y, etc, coded other filter boxes. I guess CPL became popular after that for circular polarizers. I wouldn't waste too much time on trying to ascertain a specific derivation. G -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: What's in the name?
I've seen it abreviated as C-Pl, and that's the form I try to remember to use. My best guess is it's "C" for Circular and "Pl" for PoLarizer. On 7/22/2015 10:27 PM, Igor PDML-StR wrote: I know that there are quite a few language and grammar geeks among PDMLers. That's why I thought I'd share this linguistic question that got me puzzled. I see that almost everybody who is talking about Circular Polarizers uses an abbreviation "CPL", either as a noun or adjective (e.g. CPL filter). The curious part is that none of the online photography articles and reviews that talks about "CPL" bothers to deabbreviate it. (Just as a reference, all scientific journals where I've published my articles require to define any abbreviation before using it for the first time, even for those that are common in the field.) So, my question is "What does the `L' in CPL stand for?" I have 3 versions of what it might be (or what photographers who use that abbreviation might mean), including a standard one that is typically used in optical methods in physics, chemistry and related areas of science. None of those 3 would be strictly speaking correct. So, I am suspecting that I might be missing something more obvious. So, what does the `L' in CPL stand for? Thank you, Igor -- Science - Questions we may never find answers for. Religion - Answers we must never question. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: What's in the name?
PJ, Thank you for that interesting idea. It sounds as a very possible scenario. Igor P.J. Alling Thu, 23 Jul 2015 08:14:48 -0700 wrote: I think the use of PL by some manufactures goes way back, there was once a standardized filter nominclature, that used letters, A for red, K[#] for Yellows, G for Deep Yellow. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: What's in the name?
I understand that Igor. Despite what evidences of ignorance I may post here, I do know the difference between a lens and a filter. I had assumed that the terminology originated when it was first applied to a lens that had the polarizing built into the lens itself, and that was later replaced by a filter that could be uses on any lens of an appropriate diameter. Dan Matyola http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 11:33 AM, Igor PDML-StR wrote: > > Dan, > > And I assume you know why that would be incorrect usage? > Because (hopefully!) no "lensing" occurs in a filter (which is supposed to > have flat, plane-parallel surfaces). > > Cheers, > > Igor > > > > Daniel J. Matyola Thu, 23 Jul 2015 07:36:01 -0700 wrote: > > I thought that "PL" stood for "polarizing lens." > > Dan Matyola > http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola > > > > On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 10:32 AM, Igor PDML-StR wrote: > > <...> > >> >> Now, my 3 guesses that I mentioned yesterday but didn't write to avoid any >> bias were: lens, light, and luminescence that would be in the scientific >> term "circularly polarized luminescence". Obviously, none of these would >> be >> correct in "CPL filter". >> >> Igor >> > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and > follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: What's in the name?
Dan, And I assume you know why that would be incorrect usage? Because (hopefully!) no "lensing" occurs in a filter (which is supposed to have flat, plane-parallel surfaces). Cheers, Igor Daniel J. Matyola Thu, 23 Jul 2015 07:36:01 -0700 wrote: I thought that "PL" stood for "polarizing lens." Dan Matyola http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 10:32 AM, Igor PDML-StR wrote: <...> Now, my 3 guesses that I mentioned yesterday but didn't write to avoid any bias were: lens, light, and luminescence that would be in the scientific term "circularly polarized luminescence". Obviously, none of these would be correct in "CPL filter". Igor -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: What's in the name?
I think the use of PL by some manufactures goes way back, there was once a standardized filter nominclature, that used letters, A for red, K[#] for Yellows, G for Deep Yellow. I don't know all of them, (One often sees the letter designation combined with the Wratten number used by Kodak, which can be confusing as some Wratten numbers include a trailing letter. So an A filter is a Wratten #25 which is described as red tricolor, and might be designated by say Tiffen as an A-25, while, a lighter red filter has a Wratten number of 23A. I always assumed that the the PL designation for a polarizer was used because "P" conflicted with some long forgotten standard letter code for a color filter. CPL was just a logical extension from that. I have no idea why some manufactures decided on A for red, K for Yellow or G for a specific shade of Deep Yellow, nor could I find a complete listing of alternate letter codes for different photographic color filters, so this is just speculation on my part. It does make sense in a way. Polarizing filters were a relatively late addition to the photographic arsenal using them on non SLR cameras was tricky, some of the Rube Goldberg solutions to using them with rangefinder equipped cameras look fragile at best, and the Graflex style reflex cameras viewing screens were already so dim that focusing and composing with a polarizer in front of the lens seems impractical. So it seems that P might have been used for some color. On 7/23/2015 10:32 AM, Igor PDML-StR wrote: Hi Darren, So, the initial "PL" was for PoLarizer (as Bill suggested)? That's weird! But those things happen... I am recalling that when I saw "PL" many years ago, I actually thought it could've been for "Linear Polarizer" but possibly in a different language (e.g. French), where the word sequence is reverse (polarisant lin'eaire). As for varios markings for Cirular Polarizers, I found that at least two companies/brands also used "PLD" (Quantaray) or "P.L.D." (Marumi): http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/800690332-USE/ Any idea what that "D" stands for? And why it is writed with the periods (dots?) as an initialism? http://www.marumi-filter.co.jp/en/product/02/dhg_s_cpld.php (You can see it engraved on the filter.) In the letter case, it is funny that they write "Circular PL" on the website. Now, my 3 guesses that I mentioned yesterday but didn't write to avoid any bias were: lens, light, and luminescence that would be in the scientific term "circularly polarized luminescence". Obviously, none of these would be correct in "CPL filter". Igor Darren Addy Thu, 23 Jul 2015 04:44:15 -0700 wrote: It isn't an acronym. PL was originally the abbreviation printed on linear polarizers from almost all manufacturers. When circular polarizers came into being (and were necessary to avoid exposure and focus problems with modern cameras that use semi-silvered mirrors or prisms to split the light entering the viewfinder in order to calculate exposure and focusing distance) they had to be differentiated in some way. You will see them called CPL, PL-CIR, and PL-C (perhaps others) by various manufacturers. -- I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying. -- Woody Allen -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: What's in the name?
I thought that "PL" stood for "polarizing lens." Dan Matyola http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 10:32 AM, Igor PDML-StR wrote: > > > Hi Darren, > > So, the initial "PL" was for PoLarizer (as Bill suggested)? > That's weird! But those things happen... > > I am recalling that when I saw "PL" many years ago, I actually thought it > could've been for "Linear Polarizer" but possibly in a different language > (e.g. French), where the word sequence is reverse (polarisant lin'eaire). > > > As for varios markings for Cirular Polarizers, I found that at least two > companies/brands also used "PLD" (Quantaray) or "P.L.D." (Marumi): > http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/800690332-USE/ > Any idea what that "D" stands for? And why it is writed with the periods > (dots?) as an initialism? > http://www.marumi-filter.co.jp/en/product/02/dhg_s_cpld.php > (You can see it engraved on the filter.) > > In the letter case, it is funny that they write "Circular PL" on the > website. > > > Now, my 3 guesses that I mentioned yesterday but didn't write to avoid any > bias were: lens, light, and luminescence that would be in the scientific > term "circularly polarized luminescence". Obviously, none of these would be > correct in "CPL filter". > > Igor > > > > Darren Addy Thu, 23 Jul 2015 04:44:15 -0700 wrote: > > It isn't an acronym. PL was originally the abbreviation printed on > linear polarizers from almost all manufacturers. When circular > polarizers came into being (and were necessary to avoid exposure and > focus problems with modern cameras that use semi-silvered mirrors or > prisms to split the light entering the viewfinder in order to > calculate exposure and focusing distance) they had to be > differentiated in some way. You will see them called CPL, PL-CIR, and > PL-C (perhaps others) by various manufacturers. > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and > follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: What's in the name?
Hi Darren, So, the initial "PL" was for PoLarizer (as Bill suggested)? That's weird! But those things happen... I am recalling that when I saw "PL" many years ago, I actually thought it could've been for "Linear Polarizer" but possibly in a different language (e.g. French), where the word sequence is reverse (polarisant lin'eaire). As for varios markings for Cirular Polarizers, I found that at least two companies/brands also used "PLD" (Quantaray) or "P.L.D." (Marumi): http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/800690332-USE/ Any idea what that "D" stands for? And why it is writed with the periods (dots?) as an initialism? http://www.marumi-filter.co.jp/en/product/02/dhg_s_cpld.php (You can see it engraved on the filter.) In the letter case, it is funny that they write "Circular PL" on the website. Now, my 3 guesses that I mentioned yesterday but didn't write to avoid any bias were: lens, light, and luminescence that would be in the scientific term "circularly polarized luminescence". Obviously, none of these would be correct in "CPL filter". Igor Darren Addy Thu, 23 Jul 2015 04:44:15 -0700 wrote: It isn't an acronym. PL was originally the abbreviation printed on linear polarizers from almost all manufacturers. When circular polarizers came into being (and were necessary to avoid exposure and focus problems with modern cameras that use semi-silvered mirrors or prisms to split the light entering the viewfinder in order to calculate exposure and focusing distance) they had to be differentiated in some way. You will see them called CPL, PL-CIR, and PL-C (perhaps others) by various manufacturers. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: What's in the name?
It isn't an acronym. PL was originally the abbreviation printed on linear polarizers from almost all manufacturers. When circular polarizers came into being (and were necessary to avoid exposure and focus problems with modern cameras that use semi-silvered mirrors or prisms to split the light entering the viewfinder in order to calculate exposure and focusing distance) they had to be differentiated in some way. You will see them called CPL, PL-CIR, and PL-C (perhaps others) by various manufacturers. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: What's in the name?
On 22/07/2015 8:27 PM, Igor PDML-StR wrote: I know that there are quite a few language and grammar geeks among PDMLers. That's why I thought I'd share this linguistic question that got me puzzled. I see that almost everybody who is talking about Circular Polarizers uses an abbreviation "CPL", either as a noun or adjective (e.g. CPL filter). The curious part is that none of the online photography articles and reviews that talks about "CPL" bothers to deabbreviate it. (Just as a reference, all scientific journals where I've published my articles require to define any abbreviation before using it for the first time, even for those that are common in the field.) So, my question is "What does the `L' in CPL stand for?" "larizer" -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
