Re: Special Interview with PENTAX @PMA
On 11 Mar 2005 at 3:57, Pål Jensen wrote: > Why not wait and see until the camera is actually released, provided it will > be > released at all. Then we will know both the specifications and the price. It would be great to find out if an MF DSLR is actually in development so those of us with rational thought processes could be given the opportunity to dump or gear before the sh*t hits the fan. Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://members.ozemail.com.au/~distudio/publications/ Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998
Re: Special Interview with PENTAX @PMA
Herb wrote: > there are only two designers of larger than 35mm format sensors and one of > them, Dalsa, is scaling back although it is a profitable company that is > growing. Kodak reduced its MF back line from several down to one. no-one is > investing in new capacity, let alone new production facilities. no-one is > paying for it. if Pentax is going to introduce anything this year, it has to > be using a sensor that is available right now. that means it'll be priced > just like the Mamiya ZD at around $12K list using a 48x36mm 22 megapixel > sensor. it could be worse if it is priced like the Hasselblad H1D at $16K > using the same sensor. i expect the Pentax body would have to come in at > about $13K list to have a chance of recovering its costs. Why not wait and see until the camera is actually released, provided it will be released at all. Then we will know both the specifications and the price. Pål
Re: Special Interview with PENTAX @PMA
there are only two designers of larger than 35mm format sensors and one of them, Dalsa, is scaling back although it is a profitable company that is growing. Kodak reduced its MF back line from several down to one. no-one is investing in new capacity, let alone new production facilities. no-one is paying for it. if Pentax is going to introduce anything this year, it has to be using a sensor that is available right now. that means it'll be priced just like the Mamiya ZD at around $12K list using a 48x36mm 22 megapixel sensor. it could be worse if it is priced like the Hasselblad H1D at $16K using the same sensor. i expect the Pentax body would have to come in at about $13K list to have a chance of recovering its costs. prices of DSLRs are holding fairly steady compared to P&S cameras and that is deliberate. manufacturers are consciously avoiding a price war. how long that will continue is anybody's guess. a price war in digital medium format will put everyone in it out of business. Herb... - Original Message - From: "Pål Jensen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 9:01 AM Subject: Re: Special Interview with PENTAX @PMA These kind of arguments a rather pointless although they may be true, because they only reflect the current situations. I can remember when only few companies globally manufactured CD's. The yield rate was low; prices high. The experts claimed that in the future only major artist (like Michael Jackson) would ever be released on the CD medium. Nowadays the least sold records of all time are avaiable comercially on CD and you can even burn them at home.
Re: Special Interview with PENTAX @PMA
Herb wrote: > the price drop will be very slow because the few larger format sensor > manufacturers out there are not investing in more capacity. in fact, i > expect prices hold for the foreseeable future because there isn't any more > capacity. a MF DSLR will have a sensor slightly larger than a full frame > 35mm DSLR for a lot more money. what's the point if there will be a large > crop factor and you have to replace your short lenses with even shorter > ones? a full frame 35mm DSLR will have no crop factor, almost identical > resolution, and cost a bit less. These kind of arguments a rather pointless although they may be true, because they only reflect the current situations. I can remember when only few companies globally manufactured CD's. The yield rate was low; prices high. The experts claimed that in the future only major artist (like Michael Jackson) would ever be released on the CD medium. Nowadays the least sold records of all time are avaiable comercially on CD and you can even burn them at home. Pål
Re: Special Interview with PENTAX @PMA
the price drop will be very slow because the few larger format sensor manufacturers out there are not investing in more capacity. in fact, i expect prices hold for the foreseeable future because there isn't any more capacity. a MF DSLR will have a sensor slightly larger than a full frame 35mm DSLR for a lot more money. what's the point if there will be a large crop factor and you have to replace your short lenses with even shorter ones? a full frame 35mm DSLR will have no crop factor, almost identical resolution, and cost a bit less. Herb - Original Message - From: "Pål Jensen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005 11:01 AM Subject: Re: Special Interview with PENTAX @PMA Maybe, but it still depend on price developments for sensors. History tells us that any mass market comodity with low yield rate and high cost eventually drop in price. It depends on the price difference between 35mm sized sensors and larger ones. Even 35mm full frame sensors won't have a future unless the price gap to the APS sized sensors become smaller. Time will tell Anyway, according to Pentax they will market a MF based DSLR (almost certainly with the 645 mount) withing a year (regardless of demand it seems!). This will be Pentax pro offering. Below it will be a k-mount prosumer body that might have a full frame sensor (depending on how you interpret the interview). The bottom, entry level, will be *ist D variations. Pentax may of course change plans but it seems that for next two years or so there are two DSLR's coming from Pentax appealing to the enthusiast a K-mount prosumer bodu and a 645 mount professional body.
Re: Special Interview with PENTAX @PMA
Rob wrote: > I'll make a prediction and say that MF digital formats will not prove to be > viable to manufacture in the near future, particularly when full frame 35mm > imaging sensors peak at 20-25MP. There just simply won't be a sufficiently > large market in +35mm formats to justify spending cash there, we might end up > with one or two low volume high cost specialist vendors in the market but no > more. If Pentax tries to shimmy up that pole they will go the same way as > Leica > and Contax. Maybe, but it still depend on price developments for sensors. History tells us that any mass market comodity with low yield rate and high cost eventually drop in price. It depends on the price difference between 35mm sized sensors and larger ones. Even 35mm full frame sensors won't have a future unless the price gap to the APS sized sensors become smaller. Time will tell Anyway, according to Pentax they will market a MF based DSLR (almost certainly with the 645 mount) withing a year (regardless of demand it seems!). This will be Pentax pro offering. Below it will be a k-mount prosumer body that might have a full frame sensor (depending on how you interpret the interview). The bottom, entry level, will be *ist D variations. Pentax may of course change plans but it seems that for next two years or so there are two DSLR's coming from Pentax appealing to the enthusiast a K-mount prosumer bodu and a 645 mount professional body. > Witness similar audio industry transitions, vinyl recordings to CD then CD to > DVD-A, SACD etc. It can be plainly seen that the higher quality recording > options are going nowhere in the market, yes they potentially offer better > reproduction but not significant enough that the public are supporting them. > They are dead in the water because the wider public is satisfied with the > audio > capabilities of the CD medium. This same market saturation vs resolution vs > consumer need brick wall will apply to digital cameras shortly also. It isn't really comparable. High-end DSLR will never apeal to the masses anyway, regardless of if it is MF or 35mm based. A new recording medium must sell to the masses as well in order to be viable at all; The high-end audio community cannot alone float a whole new standard. We are talking hardware here anyway. People are indeed buying outrageously expensive CD players whose sound differences from moderately priced ones are so small that most of us can't hear it! Pål
Re: Special Interview with PENTAX @PMA
prices on MF-sized sensors are going to drop very little in a couple of years. all the manufacturers (Kodak and Dalsa) are running flat out and are not building more manufacturing capacity. Herb... - Original Message - From: "Pål Jensen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 3:51 PM Subject: Re: Special Interview with PENTAX @PMA Sure, but this is a description of the situation at a certain point in time. However, due to dropping prices and new technology this state is in constant flux. It may have made sense to buy outrageously priced MF backs when affordable digital cameras had substandard image quality, just like buying a $20 000 Personal Computer once upon a time made (some) sense as well.
Re: Special Interview with PENTAX @PMA
by the time it ships, very few people will care. only people who still have 645s will care, and they won't care a lot since there will be the crop factor to deal with. there won't be a significant megapixel advantage. Herb... - Original Message - From: "Pål Jensen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 10:02 AM Subject: Re: Special Interview with PENTAX @PMA A medium format based DSLR will be similar in all important respect to a 35mm based DSLR. It can be made significantly smaller than a film 645 camera which means it could be smaller than "pro" DSLR from Nikon and Canon. Considering that it will be ideal for outdoor/landscape shooters, as Pentax plans to make a dslr that is not dependent on a power outlet, or anyone else wanting cutting edge quality, such a camera makes a lot of sense.
Re: Special Interview with PENTAX @PMA
On 8 Mar 2005 at 16:02, Pål Jensen wrote: > There is no limit for image quality. It never was for film and it certainly > won't be for digital. Theres less hassle involved by going larger in digital > than it is for film. Still, some use large format in spite of the tremendous > hassle factor involved. I'll make a prediction and say that MF digital formats will not prove to be viable to manufacture in the near future, particularly when full frame 35mm imaging sensors peak at 20-25MP. There just simply won't be a sufficiently large market in +35mm formats to justify spending cash there, we might end up with one or two low volume high cost specialist vendors in the market but no more. If Pentax tries to shimmy up that pole they will go the same way as Leica and Contax. The cost to develop any digital camera body is huge compared to MF or 35mm film bodies, there has to be a market to absorb these costs and turn the design/production into a profitable venture. I have and still use MF gear but I can assure you that as soon as 20-25MP 35mm frame format digital cameras are available and resonably priced I'll be relegating all my MF gear to the display cabinet as historical items. There certainly won't be a second hand market for them at that stage. Witness similar audio industry transitions, vinyl recordings to CD then CD to DVD-A, SACD etc. It can be plainly seen that the higher quality recording options are going nowhere in the market, yes they potentially offer better reproduction but not significant enough that the public are supporting them. They are dead in the water because the wider public is satisfied with the audio capabilities of the CD medium. This same market saturation vs resolution vs consumer need brick wall will apply to digital cameras shortly also. Cheers, Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://members.ozemail.com.au/~distudio/publications/ Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998
Re: Special Interview with PENTAX @PMA
Dario wrote: > Your opinions make some sense (except when you say that Hasselbad-Imacon > hasn't the know-how for making digital cameras). But none of these companies can have any hope of making digital solutions that are competitive to the extent that they have any hope of being mass market in any meaning of the word. >However, they are just > respectable opinions and wishes, IMO not so much supported by current market > trends. But "trends" are dependend on price. Further price drop will move the market towards larger sensors. Theres no reason why such tendencises should stop at 35mm. > > It is a fact that when pro DLSR's were around 3-4 Mpix, MF digital backs > sold rather well, while now they no longer do. As I wrote for ages (with > little approval here), in practical use digital APS format replaces 35mm, > while digital 24x36mm replaces MF. Most amateur photographers don't believe > that, while many (not sure if most) pros do that every day. Sure, but this is a description of the situation at a certain point in time. However, due to dropping prices and new technology this state is in constant flux. It may have made sense to buy outrageously priced MF backs when affordable digital cameras had substandard image quality, just like buying a $20 000 Personal Computer once upon a time made (some) sense as well. > So at the end digital MF will be more or less equivalent to film LF, both in > performance and sales. That fully depends on the price. > > I'm afraid that within one year or so most MF makers will be either out of > business or downsized to niche players, selling a few hundred cameras a year > worldwide (just like LF makers were in the past), including those backed up > by strong digital technology (like Hasselblad-Imacon is for sure). Of > course, I can be wrong. We'll check next year. I agree with this. I doubt however that the digital back solution is going to be with us in the future. I see a medium format based DSLR as no different in principle than any other DSLR. In the future some DSLR will have APS sized sensors, oher 35mm sized ones and some larger than 35mm. Pål
Re: Special Interview with PENTAX @PMA
Your opinions make some sense (except when you say that Hasselbad-Imacon hasn't the know-how for making digital cameras). However, they are just respectable opinions and wishes, IMO not so much supported by current market trends. It is a fact that when pro DLSR's were around 3-4 Mpix, MF digital backs sold rather well, while now they no longer do. As I wrote for ages (with little approval here), in practical use digital APS format replaces 35mm, while digital 24x36mm replaces MF. Most amateur photographers don't believe that, while many (not sure if most) pros do that every day. So at the end digital MF will be more or less equivalent to film LF, both in performance and sales. I'm afraid that within one year or so most MF makers will be either out of business or downsized to niche players, selling a few hundred cameras a year worldwide (just like LF makers were in the past), including those backed up by strong digital technology (like Hasselblad-Imacon is for sure). Of course, I can be wrong. We'll check next year. Dario - Original Message - From: "Pål Jensen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 6:40 PM Subject: Re: Special Interview with PENTAX @PMA Dario wrote: Except that a good 10-16 Mpix full-format DSLR outperforms the needs of say 99% of pros. The same could be said about 35mm. Anyway, I don't believe needs has anything to do with it. 99% of pros doesn't need an F5 either but they use it anyway. As longs as performance can be had without too much hassle and price handicap it will find its market regardless of needs. Needs are pretty much defined by whats available. For that reason, Bronica gave up, while rumors say that Contax and Hasselblad will be the next makers going out of business or downsizing a lot. And Sinar is not going better. I didn't notice Rollei at PhotoShow last weekend. I don't know how Mamiya is going. The reason is simply that none of these companies have the resources or the know-how to make digital cameras. They are all backyard companies compared to Pentax. Unless they are being bought up by a major player they are without a future. Now I can understand why Pentax is hesitating a lot in making the 645D. Dario (in the bush :-) Are they hesitating? It seems to me like Pentax is building a completely new customer base for the K-mount system, gradually introducing upgrade paths for the *ist D's without much regard for present Pentax users into high-end already. The immediate high-end offering seem to be into medium format. To me me it seems like Pentax have no other option if they want to be a major DSLR player; a $5000 Pentax K-mount DSLR simply won't sell whereas there are plenty of MF users, Pentax or otherwise, that might consider a MF based DSLR. There's a significasnt number of photographers who won't even consider digital until it offers considerably higher image quality than whats available from film based media. Pål
Re: Special Interview with PENTAX @PMA
Dario wrote: > Except that a good 10-16 Mpix full-format DSLR outperforms the needs of say > 99% of pros. The same could be said about 35mm. Anyway, I don't believe needs has anything to do with it. 99% of pros doesn't need an F5 either but they use it anyway. As longs as performance can be had without too much hassle and price handicap it will find its market regardless of needs. Needs are pretty much defined by whats available. >For that reason, Bronica gave up, while rumors say that Contax > and Hasselblad will be the next makers going out of business or downsizing a > lot. And Sinar is not going better. I didn't notice Rollei at PhotoShow last > weekend. I don't know how Mamiya is going. The reason is simply that none of these companies have the resources or the know-how to make digital cameras. They are all backyard companies compared to Pentax. Unless they are being bought up by a major player they are without a future. > Now I can understand why Pentax is hesitating a lot in making the 645D. > Dario (in the bush :-) Are they hesitating? It seems to me like Pentax is building a completely new customer base for the K-mount system, gradually introducing upgrade paths for the *ist D's without much regard for present Pentax users into high-end already. The immediate high-end offering seem to be into medium format. To me me it seems like Pentax have no other option if they want to be a major DSLR player; a $5000 Pentax K-mount DSLR simply won't sell whereas there are plenty of MF users, Pentax or otherwise, that might consider a MF based DSLR. There's a significasnt number of photographers who won't even consider digital until it offers considerably higher image quality than whats available from film based media. Pål
Re: Special Interview with PENTAX @PMA
Except that a good 10-16 Mpix full-format DSLR outperforms the needs of say 99% of pros. For that reason, Bronica gave up, while rumors say that Contax and Hasselblad will be the next makers going out of business or downsizing a lot. And Sinar is not going better. I didn't notice Rollei at PhotoShow last weekend. I don't know how Mamiya is going. Now I can understand why Pentax is hesitating a lot in making the 645D. Dario (in the bush :-) - Original Message - From: "Pål Jensen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 4:02 PM Subject: Re: Special Interview with PENTAX @PMA Herb wrote: one to two years from now, the niche will be filled except for people trying to recycle their old 645 gear. in two years, we will see 20 megapixel or more 35mm full frame format sensors. REPLY: There is no limit for image quality. It never was for film and it certainly won't be for digital. Theres less hassle involved by going larger in digital than it is for film. Still, some use large format in spite of the tremendous hassle factor involved. A medium format based DSLR will be similar in all important respect to a 35mm based DSLR. It can be made significantly smaller than a film 645 camera which means it could be smaller than "pro" DSLR from Nikon and Canon. Considering that it will be ideal for outdoor/landscape shooters, as Pentax plans to make a dslr that is not dependent on a power outlet, or anyone else wanting cutting edge quality, such a camera makes a lot of sense. It will in addition enable Pentax to compete in the high-end sector and be able to outperform the others as Nikon and Canon so far are restricted to the smaller 35mm format and the likes of Sony/matsushita are unlikely to make MF sized optic systems. The other MF manufacturers are highly unlikely to able to compete as they are all essentialy very small operations if not downright out of business. It your DSLR makes it possible to make poster sized prints from all your images somebody (quite a lot I think) will want one if the price is right. Pål
Re: Special Interview with PENTAX @PMA
Herb wrote: one to two years from now, the niche will be filled except for people trying to recycle their old 645 gear. in two years, we will see 20 megapixel or more 35mm full frame format sensors. REPLY: There is no limit for image quality. It never was for film and it certainly won't be for digital. Theres less hassle involved by going larger in digital than it is for film. Still, some use large format in spite of the tremendous hassle factor involved. A medium format based DSLR will be similar in all important respect to a 35mm based DSLR. It can be made significantly smaller than a film 645 camera which means it could be smaller than "pro" DSLR from Nikon and Canon. Considering that it will be ideal for outdoor/landscape shooters, as Pentax plans to make a dslr that is not dependent on a power outlet, or anyone else wanting cutting edge quality, such a camera makes a lot of sense. It will in addition enable Pentax to compete in the high-end sector and be able to outperform the others as Nikon and Canon so far are restricted to the smaller 35mm format and the likes of Sony/matsushita are unlikely to make MF sized optic systems. The other MF manufacturers are highly unlikely to able to compete as they are all essentialy very small operations if not downright out of business. It your DSLR makes it possible to make poster sized prints from all your images somebody (quite a lot I think) will want one if the price is right. Pål
Re: Special Interview with PENTAX @PMA
one to two years from now, the niche will be filled except for people trying to recycle their old 645 gear. in two years, we will see 20 megapixel or more 35mm full frame format sensors. Herb... - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2005 9:46 PM Subject: Re: Special Interview with PENTAX @PMA I would be surprised if development stops now. There's a market for MF digital. Someone will fill it.
Re: Special Interview with PENTAX @PMA
I would be surprised if development stops now. There's a market for MF digital. Someone will fill it. > there are two vendors of larger than 35mm frame digital imaging sensors. > they are DALSA and Kodak, and they are running flat out. in OEM quantities, > they are about $3.5K each. in a year or two, there won't be a market left. > > Herb... > - Original Message - > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2005 9:05 PM > Subject: Re: Special Interview with PENTAX @PMA > > > > That's based on current prices. Given the rapid drop in 35mm dslr prices, > > I think a 3 to 4 K medium format camera is a possibiliby in another year > > or two. > >
Re: Special Interview with PENTAX @PMA
there are two vendors of larger than 35mm frame digital imaging sensors. they are DALSA and Kodak, and they are running flat out. in OEM quantities, they are about $3.5K each. in a year or two, there won't be a market left. Herb... - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2005 9:05 PM Subject: Re: Special Interview with PENTAX @PMA That's based on current prices. Given the rapid drop in 35mm dslr prices, I think a 3 to 4 K medium format camera is a possibiliby in another year or two.
Re: Special Interview with PENTAX @PMA
That's based on current prices. Given the rapid drop in 35mm dslr prices, I think a 3 to 4 K medium format camera is a possibiliby in another year or two. > if they price their half-frame 645 camera at what they need to so that they > make a profit, it will be a body that costs over $10K, probably $12K. having > the next body down be a $800 APS entry level DSLR taking 35mm and D lenses > leaves a huge hole in the middle. if Pentax is to have anything resembling a > line of DSLRs instead of just a body, they will have to have a $1.5-2K body > and a $4-5K body. > > Herb > - Original Message - > From: "Paul Stenquist" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2005 9:17 AM > Subject: Re: Special Interview with PENTAX @PMA > > > >I wouldn't be surprised if the high-pixel count version would accept both > >6x7 and 645 lenses, with an adapter for the 645 versions. That would > >provide the highest level of compatibility for current pro users. If > >Pentax is smart, they won't ignore the horde of fashion photogs who have > >used the 6x7. > >
Re: Special Interview with PENTAX @PMA
Thanks for the clarification. That makes sense. I guess I'll be keeping my 6x7 lenses. Paul > Hi all, > > what i understood from the original (i mean japanese) > artiicle; > > 1) pentax considers *ist d/ds as a consumer model, > regardless of their specs. > 2)they are developing midle format digital body and aiming > to introduce it to the market within a year. > 3)more da lenses to come including limiteds. > 4)new and higher 35mm equivalent dslr will come next year > or later. > > in the interview, mr. torigoe called the above 2) as a > 'professional', and the 4) will be the middle class model, > between 'pro' and 'consumer' models. > > as i understood, you can see the current film camera > lineup from pentax. 67 and 645 are mainly for prosumers > including high-amatuers. *ist-d/ds is equivalent to, > say, mz-l or *ist(!) for consumers. i believe the above > 4) will be equivalent to mz-s/3/5n. > > sincereiy, > > take ueda > osaka, japan > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > --- John Francis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > I'd expect it to take both - don't Pentax already do > > this with > > at least one of their medium-format bodies? > > > > In fact, if the physical dimensions of the sensor > > make doing so > > plausible, I wouldn't be totally surprised to find > > it capable of > > accepting K-mount lenses as well. > > > > > > Paul Stenquist mused: > > > > > > I wouldn't be surprised if the high-pixel count > > version would accept > > > both 6x7 and 645 lenses, with an adapter for the > > 645 versions. That > > > would provide the highest level of compatibility > > for current pro users. > > > If Pentax is smart, they won't ignore the horde of > > fashion photogs who > > > have used the 6x7. > > > Paul > > > On Feb 27, 2005, at 12:05 AM, John Francis wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > That's not how I read the postings. > > > > It looks to me as though the next thing to come > > is a high-pixel-count > > > > digital body for the "professional" market that > > will take the 645 > > > > lenses. > > > > > > > > Then we'll probably see a follow-on model or two > > for the existing > > > > *ist-D > > > > range. From other reports the most likely next > > release will be a > > > > lower-end > > > > model, below the DS, trying to grab the > > entry-level marketplace > > > > (sub-$650). > > > > If we do see a *ist-Dn, it's still going to be > > aimed at what Pentax > > > > see as > > > > the *ist-D market - the low end. Perhaps we'll > > get 8MP, but I doubt > > > > we'll > > > > see 12MP (just as well, if the first reports of > > high-ISO noise are > > > > correct). > > > > > > > > One piece of good news, for the enthusiast > > market, is that Hyper modes > > > > seem > > > > to be here to stay. And as Pentax have > > apparently noticed that their > > > > buyers > > > > seem to have quite a few existing lenses, and > > are eschewing cheap > > > > zooms, > > > > we could get a few new nice primes - maybe even > > more 'limited' lenses. > > > > Who knows - we may even see the return of the > > aperture simulator > > > > coupling. > > > > (Personally, though, I rather doubt that). > > > > > > > > On the other hand, the APS-C sensor is the > > design centre for the > > > > moment. > > > > > > > > While Pentax do see a possible market niche > > between the *ist-D and the > > > > high-end model, it's not likely that we'll see > > anything for that sector > > > > in the next 12 months. That's where I'd expect > > to see a 12MP sensor. > > > > That's also where I'd expect to see a sensor > > larger than APS-C, > > > > although > > > > I think that's even further away (after all, > > releasing a digital camera > > > > body that doesn't work perfectly with a fairly > > new DA lens is risky). > > > > > > > > > > > > Herb Chong mused: > > > >> > > > >> if we can believe them, then 12MP camera based > > on the same sensor as > > > >> the > > > >> Nikon D2X seems strong possibility. the *istD > > announcement happened > > > >> not a > > > >> long time after the D100 announcement. > > > >> > > > >> Herb... > > > >> - Original Message - > > > >> From: "Powell Hargrave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > >> To: > > > >> Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2005 1:57 PM > > > >> Subject: Special Interview with PENTAX @PMA > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>> On DPReview Pentax forum > > > >>> > > > >>> Special Interview with PENTAX @PMA [English > > Part1] > > > >>> > > > >>> http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp? > > > >>> forum=1036&message=12418969 > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
Re: Special Interview with PENTAX @PMA
if they price their half-frame 645 camera at what they need to so that they make a profit, it will be a body that costs over $10K, probably $12K. having the next body down be a $800 APS entry level DSLR taking 35mm and D lenses leaves a huge hole in the middle. if Pentax is to have anything resembling a line of DSLRs instead of just a body, they will have to have a $1.5-2K body and a $4-5K body. Herb - Original Message - From: "Paul Stenquist" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2005 9:17 AM Subject: Re: Special Interview with PENTAX @PMA I wouldn't be surprised if the high-pixel count version would accept both 6x7 and 645 lenses, with an adapter for the 645 versions. That would provide the highest level of compatibility for current pro users. If Pentax is smart, they won't ignore the horde of fashion photogs who have used the 6x7.
Re: Special Interview with PENTAX @PMA
Hi all, (B (Bwhat i understood from the original (i mean japanese) (Bartiicle; (B (B1) pentax considers *ist d/ds as a consumer model, (Bregardless of their specs. (B2)they are developing midle format digital body and aiming (Bto introduce it to the market within a year. (B3)more da lenses to come including limiteds. (B4)new and higher 35mm equivalent dslr will come next year (Bor later. (B (Bin the interview, mr. torigoe called the above 2) as a (B'professional', and the 4) will be the middle class model, (Bbetween 'pro' and 'consumer' models. (B (Bas i understood, you can see the current film camera (Blineup from pentax. 67 and 645 are mainly for prosumers (Bincluding high-amatuers. *ist-d/ds is equivalent to, (Bsay, mz-l or *ist(!) for consumers. i believe the above (B4) will be equivalent to mz-s/3/5n. (B (Bsincereiy, (B (Btake ueda (Bosaka, japan (B[EMAIL PROTECTED] (B (B--- John Francis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: (B> (B> I'd expect it to take both - don't Pentax already do (B> this with (B> at least one of their medium-format bodies? (B> (B> In fact, if the physical dimensions of the sensor (B> make doing so (B> plausible, I wouldn't be totally surprised to find (B> it capable of (B> accepting K-mount lenses as well. (B> (B> (B> Paul Stenquist mused: (B> > (B> > I wouldn't be surprised if the high-pixel count (B> version would accept (B> > both 6x7 and 645 lenses, with an adapter for the (B> 645 versions. That (B> > would provide the highest level of compatibility (B> for current pro users. (B> > If Pentax is smart, they won't ignore the horde of (B> fashion photogs who (B> > have used the 6x7. (B> > Paul (B> > On Feb 27, 2005, at 12:05 AM, John Francis wrote: (B> > (B> > > (B> > > That's not how I read the postings. (B> > > It looks to me as though the next thing to come (B> is a high-pixel-count (B> > > digital body for the "professional" market that (B> will take the 645 (B> > > lenses. (B> > > (B> > > Then we'll probably see a follow-on model or two (B> for the existing (B> > > *ist-D (B> > > range. From other reports the most likely next (B> release will be a (B> > > lower-end (B> > > model, below the DS, trying to grab the (B> entry-level marketplace (B> > > (sub-$650). (B> > > If we do see a *ist-Dn, it's still going to be (B> aimed at what Pentax (B> > > see as (B> > > the *ist-D market - the low end. Perhaps we'll (B> get 8MP, but I doubt (B> > > we'll (B> > > see 12MP (just as well, if the first reports of (B> high-ISO noise are (B> > > correct). (B> > > (B> > > One piece of good news, for the enthusiast (B> market, is that Hyper modes (B> > > seem (B> > > to be here to stay. And as Pentax have (B> apparently noticed that their (B> > > buyers (B> > > seem to have quite a few existing lenses, and (B> are eschewing cheap (B> > > zooms, (B> > > we could get a few new nice primes - maybe even (B> more 'limited' lenses. (B> > > Who knows - we may even see the return of the (B> aperture simulator (B> > > coupling. (B> > > (Personally, though, I rather doubt that). (B> > > (B> > > On the other hand, the APS-C sensor is the (B> design centre for the (B> > > moment. (B> > > (B> > > While Pentax do see a possible market niche (B> between the *ist-D and the (B> > > high-end model, it's not likely that we'll see (B> anything for that sector (B> > > in the next 12 months. That's where I'd expect (B> to see a 12MP sensor. (B> > > That's also where I'd expect to see a sensor (B> larger than APS-C, (B> > > although (B> > > I think that's even further away (after all, (B> releasing a digital camera (B> > > body that doesn't work perfectly with a fairly (B> new DA lens is risky). (B> > > (B> > > (B> > > Herb Chong mused: (B> > >> (B> > >> if we can believe them, then 12MP camera based (B> on the same sensor as (B> > >> the (B> > >> Nikon D2X seems strong possibility. the *istD (B> announcement happened (B> > >> not a (B> > >> long time after the D100 announcement. (B> > >> (B> > >> Herb... (B> > >> - Original Message - (B> > >> From: "Powell Hargrave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> (B> > >> To: (B> > >> Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2005 1:57 PM (B> > >> Subject: Special Interview with PENTAX @PMA (B> > >> (B> > >> (B> > >>> On DPReview Pentax forum (B> > >>> (B> > >>> Special Interview with PENTAX @PMA [English (B> Part1] (B> > >>> (B> > >>> http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp? (B> > >>> forum=1036&message=12418969 (B> > >>> (B> > >>> (B> > >> (B> > >> (B> > > (B> > (B>
Re: Special Interview with PENTAX @PMA
I'd expect it to take both - don't Pentax already do this with at least one of their medium-format bodies? In fact, if the physical dimensions of the sensor make doing so plausible, I wouldn't be totally surprised to find it capable of accepting K-mount lenses as well. Paul Stenquist mused: > > I wouldn't be surprised if the high-pixel count version would accept > both 6x7 and 645 lenses, with an adapter for the 645 versions. That > would provide the highest level of compatibility for current pro users. > If Pentax is smart, they won't ignore the horde of fashion photogs who > have used the 6x7. > Paul > On Feb 27, 2005, at 12:05 AM, John Francis wrote: > > > > > That's not how I read the postings. > > It looks to me as though the next thing to come is a high-pixel-count > > digital body for the "professional" market that will take the 645 > > lenses. > > > > Then we'll probably see a follow-on model or two for the existing > > *ist-D > > range. From other reports the most likely next release will be a > > lower-end > > model, below the DS, trying to grab the entry-level marketplace > > (sub-$650). > > If we do see a *ist-Dn, it's still going to be aimed at what Pentax > > see as > > the *ist-D market - the low end. Perhaps we'll get 8MP, but I doubt > > we'll > > see 12MP (just as well, if the first reports of high-ISO noise are > > correct). > > > > One piece of good news, for the enthusiast market, is that Hyper modes > > seem > > to be here to stay. And as Pentax have apparently noticed that their > > buyers > > seem to have quite a few existing lenses, and are eschewing cheap > > zooms, > > we could get a few new nice primes - maybe even more 'limited' lenses. > > Who knows - we may even see the return of the aperture simulator > > coupling. > > (Personally, though, I rather doubt that). > > > > On the other hand, the APS-C sensor is the design centre for the > > moment. > > > > While Pentax do see a possible market niche between the *ist-D and the > > high-end model, it's not likely that we'll see anything for that sector > > in the next 12 months. That's where I'd expect to see a 12MP sensor. > > That's also where I'd expect to see a sensor larger than APS-C, > > although > > I think that's even further away (after all, releasing a digital camera > > body that doesn't work perfectly with a fairly new DA lens is risky). > > > > > > Herb Chong mused: > >> > >> if we can believe them, then 12MP camera based on the same sensor as > >> the > >> Nikon D2X seems strong possibility. the *istD announcement happened > >> not a > >> long time after the D100 announcement. > >> > >> Herb... > >> - Original Message - > >> From: "Powell Hargrave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> To: > >> Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2005 1:57 PM > >> Subject: Special Interview with PENTAX @PMA > >> > >> > >>> On DPReview Pentax forum > >>> > >>> Special Interview with PENTAX @PMA [English Part1] > >>> > >>> http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp? > >>> forum=1036&message=12418969 > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > > >
Re: Special Interview with PENTAX @PMA
I wouldn't be surprised if the high-pixel count version would accept both 6x7 and 645 lenses, with an adapter for the 645 versions. That would provide the highest level of compatibility for current pro users. If Pentax is smart, they won't ignore the horde of fashion photogs who have used the 6x7. Paul On Feb 27, 2005, at 12:05 AM, John Francis wrote: That's not how I read the postings. It looks to me as though the next thing to come is a high-pixel-count digital body for the "professional" market that will take the 645 lenses. Then we'll probably see a follow-on model or two for the existing *ist-D range. From other reports the most likely next release will be a lower-end model, below the DS, trying to grab the entry-level marketplace (sub-$650). If we do see a *ist-Dn, it's still going to be aimed at what Pentax see as the *ist-D market - the low end. Perhaps we'll get 8MP, but I doubt we'll see 12MP (just as well, if the first reports of high-ISO noise are correct). One piece of good news, for the enthusiast market, is that Hyper modes seem to be here to stay. And as Pentax have apparently noticed that their buyers seem to have quite a few existing lenses, and are eschewing cheap zooms, we could get a few new nice primes - maybe even more 'limited' lenses. Who knows - we may even see the return of the aperture simulator coupling. (Personally, though, I rather doubt that). On the other hand, the APS-C sensor is the design centre for the moment. While Pentax do see a possible market niche between the *ist-D and the high-end model, it's not likely that we'll see anything for that sector in the next 12 months. That's where I'd expect to see a 12MP sensor. That's also where I'd expect to see a sensor larger than APS-C, although I think that's even further away (after all, releasing a digital camera body that doesn't work perfectly with a fairly new DA lens is risky). Herb Chong mused: if we can believe them, then 12MP camera based on the same sensor as the Nikon D2X seems strong possibility. the *istD announcement happened not a long time after the D100 announcement. Herb... - Original Message - From: "Powell Hargrave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2005 1:57 PM Subject: Special Interview with PENTAX @PMA On DPReview Pentax forum Special Interview with PENTAX @PMA [English Part1] http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp? forum=1036&message=12418969
RE: Special Interview with PENTAX @PMA
Thanks Powell, interesting in terms of company/marlketing Philosophy. Jens Bladt mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://hjem.get2net.dk/bladt -Oprindelig meddelelse- Fra: Powell Hargrave [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sendt: 26. februar 2005 19:57 Til: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Emne: Special Interview with PENTAX @PMA On DPReview Pentax forum Special Interview with PENTAX @PMA [English Part1] http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1036&message=12418969
Re: Special Interview with PENTAX @PMA
given that the *istD is discontinued, they have to release a digital body above the *istD and below the 645 replacement really soon now to keep the mid range. those are the people who both have lots of older lenses and are likely to want to buy more lenses. BTW, the newest D2X shots are a lot better than the prototype ones from last fall. Herb... - Original Message - From: "John Francis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2005 12:05 AM Subject: Re: Special Interview with PENTAX @PMA That's not how I read the postings. It looks to me as though the next thing to come is a high-pixel-count digital body for the "professional" market that will take the 645 lenses. Then we'll probably see a follow-on model or two for the existing *ist-D range. From other reports the most likely next release will be a lower-end model, below the DS, trying to grab the entry-level marketplace (sub-$650). If we do see a *ist-Dn, it's still going to be aimed at what Pentax see as the *ist-D market - the low end. Perhaps we'll get 8MP, but I doubt we'll see 12MP (just as well, if the first reports of high-ISO noise are correct).
Re: Special Interview with PENTAX @PMA
That's not how I read the postings. It looks to me as though the next thing to come is a high-pixel-count digital body for the "professional" market that will take the 645 lenses. Then we'll probably see a follow-on model or two for the existing *ist-D range. From other reports the most likely next release will be a lower-end model, below the DS, trying to grab the entry-level marketplace (sub-$650). If we do see a *ist-Dn, it's still going to be aimed at what Pentax see as the *ist-D market - the low end. Perhaps we'll get 8MP, but I doubt we'll see 12MP (just as well, if the first reports of high-ISO noise are correct). One piece of good news, for the enthusiast market, is that Hyper modes seem to be here to stay. And as Pentax have apparently noticed that their buyers seem to have quite a few existing lenses, and are eschewing cheap zooms, we could get a few new nice primes - maybe even more 'limited' lenses. Who knows - we may even see the return of the aperture simulator coupling. (Personally, though, I rather doubt that). On the other hand, the APS-C sensor is the design centre for the moment. While Pentax do see a possible market niche between the *ist-D and the high-end model, it's not likely that we'll see anything for that sector in the next 12 months. That's where I'd expect to see a 12MP sensor. That's also where I'd expect to see a sensor larger than APS-C, although I think that's even further away (after all, releasing a digital camera body that doesn't work perfectly with a fairly new DA lens is risky). Herb Chong mused: > > if we can believe them, then 12MP camera based on the same sensor as the > Nikon D2X seems strong possibility. the *istD announcement happened not a > long time after the D100 announcement. > > Herb... > - Original Message - > From: "Powell Hargrave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2005 1:57 PM > Subject: Special Interview with PENTAX @PMA > > > > On DPReview Pentax forum > > > > Special Interview with PENTAX @PMA [English Part1] > > > > http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1036&message=12418969 > > > > > >
Re: Special Interview with PENTAX @PMA
if we can believe them, then 12MP camera based on the same sensor as the Nikon D2X seems strong possibility. the *istD announcement happened not a long time after the D100 announcement. Herb... - Original Message - From: "Powell Hargrave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2005 1:57 PM Subject: Special Interview with PENTAX @PMA On DPReview Pentax forum Special Interview with PENTAX @PMA [English Part1] http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1036&message=12418969
Re: [Norton AntiSpam] Special Interview with PENTAX @PMA
- Original Message - From: "Powell Hargrave" Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Special Interview with PENTAX @PMA On DPReview Pentax forum Special Interview with PENTAX @PMA [English Part1] http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1036&message=12418969 The first two sentences, if the translation is accurate regarding the Pentax corporate philosophy, kind of explains some of what we have found baffling about Pentax. William Robb
Re: Special Interview with PENTAX @PMA
> Special Interview with PENTAX @PMA "We have to grow this seeded pyrene." I wonder if it's lost in the translation, or... "...and wants to harness sushi and the lens for inside seals now." Oh-oh - I see the *ist D/DS analogue of the sticky mirror starting to form... All joking aside, it was an encouraging interview, I thought. (But what do I know...) Fred
Re: Special Interview with PENTAX @PMA
To me, it sounds like a sound philosophy, which seems typical of how Pentax has grown over the last several years... Thanks for the post. I think it's important. keith whaley Powell Hargrave wrote: On DPReview Pentax forum Special Interview with PENTAX @PMA [English Part1] http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1036&message=12418969
Special Interview with PENTAX @PMA
On DPReview Pentax forum Special Interview with PENTAX @PMA [English Part1] http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1036&message=12418969
