Re: The myth of persistence
On 3/11/2011 8:52 AM, AlunFoto wrote: Interesting essay. On one hand he advocates not to persist at something you're not good at, in order to spend time doing things that brings you more sense of achiement. On the other hand, all his examples revolve around monetary reward as the sole gauge of achievement. Shoots his own logic in the foot, in my opinion. Jostein Jostein, are you trying to say that basically one has to have criteria for everything: how successful one is, does one enjoy doing whatever they are doing, how difficult it is to persevere on a given subject, is there any gain from persisting, etc. Looks a bit like an egg and a turkey kind of question. So, I take snow scenes pictures (well, I don't, but just to flow with the underlying motif) and it does not come out right. Do I have to keep taking them? Well, may be, if I know that throughout the year (provided, I am not living in one season over whole year climate zone) I take other pictures, say of similar grand motif, a.k.a. landscape and they turn out good. May be I just enjoy the process of shooting out in the cold snowy weather. They may not sell, I may delete them afterwards... Am I actually trying to compete face to face with well known and established artists of the genre? Or perhaps I am missing the point entirely here... Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: The myth of persistence
IOW, in photography, one is, safe to say, striving to satisfy their own criteria as to what qualifies as good. The sense of gratitude and satisfaction one feels at meeting said criteria is enhanced by the amount of effort it too to achieve. Frustration with the process simply implies impatience. Jack --- On Sun, 3/13/11, Boris Liberman bori...@gmail.com wrote: From: Boris Liberman bori...@gmail.com Subject: Re: The myth of persistence To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Date: Sunday, March 13, 2011, 7:57 AM On 3/11/2011 8:52 AM, AlunFoto wrote: Interesting essay. On one hand he advocates not to persist at something you're not good at, in order to spend time doing things that brings you more sense of achiement. On the other hand, all his examples revolve around monetary reward as the sole gauge of achievement. Shoots his own logic in the foot, in my opinion. Jostein Jostein, are you trying to say that basically one has to have criteria for everything: how successful one is, does one enjoy doing whatever they are doing, how difficult it is to persevere on a given subject, is there any gain from persisting, etc. Looks a bit like an egg and a turkey kind of question. So, I take snow scenes pictures (well, I don't, but just to flow with the underlying motif) and it does not come out right. Do I have to keep taking them? Well, may be, if I know that throughout the year (provided, I am not living in one season over whole year climate zone) I take other pictures, say of similar grand motif, a.k.a. landscape and they turn out good. May be I just enjoy the process of shooting out in the cold snowy weather. They may not sell, I may delete them afterwards... Am I actually trying to compete face to face with well known and established artists of the genre? Or perhaps I am missing the point entirely here... Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: The myth of persistence
Mike often shoots himself in the foot. I'm surprised he has a foot left, (or is that left foot...) On 3/11/2011 1:52 AM, AlunFoto wrote: Interesting essay. On one hand he advocates not to persist at something you're not good at, in order to spend time doing things that brings you more sense of achiement. On the other hand, all his examples revolve around monetary reward as the sole gauge of achievement. Shoots his own logic in the foot, in my opinion. Jostein 2011/3/11 Bruce Walkerbruce.wal...@gmail.com: Mike Johnston on not feeling obligated to shoot (or try) *everything* ... Ever since then, I've been suspicious of the idea of persistence. It's a great, grand old American myth, of course: we're always telling ourselves that persistence and perseverence are crucial to success. But many people—including a few I could name—persist at failure. They keep trying, all right. But they keep trying to do things they already should have learned they're no good at. http://goo.gl/PhVNd One of Mike's best essays. He also admits to actually loving a cat once, and taking a couple of cat pix. -bmw -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Where's the Kaboom? There was supposed to be an Earth-shattering Kaboom! --Marvin the Martian. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: The myth of persistence
2011/3/13 Boris Liberman bori...@gmail.com: On 3/11/2011 8:52 AM, AlunFoto wrote: Interesting essay. On one hand he advocates not to persist at something you're not good at, in order to spend time doing things that brings you more sense of achiement. On the other hand, all his examples revolve around monetary reward as the sole gauge of achievement. Shoots his own logic in the foot, in my opinion. Jostein Jostein, are you trying to say that basically one has to have criteria for everything No. Looks a bit like an egg and a turkey kind of question. So, I take snow scenes pictures (well, I don't, but just to flow with the underlying motif) and it does not come out right. Do I have to keep taking them? No. Well, may be, if I know that throughout the year (provided, I am not living in one season over whole year climate zone) I take other pictures, say of similar grand motif, a.k.a. landscape and they turn out good. May be I just enjoy the process of shooting out in the cold snowy weather. Exactly. They may not sell, I may delete them afterwards... Am I actually trying to compete face to face with well known and established artists of the genre? No. Or perhaps I am missing the point entirely here... With that kind of argumentation, I'd say you stopped just short of repeating my point. :-) Jostein -- http://www.alunfoto.no/galleri/ http://alunfoto.blogspot.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: The myth of persistence
Kenneth Waller http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller - Original Message - From: Jack Davis jdavi...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: The myth of persistence IOW, in photography, one is, safe to say, striving to satisfy their own criteria as to what qualifies as good. The sense of gratitude and satisfaction one feels at meeting said criteria is enhanced by the amount of effort it too to achieve. While we all march to our own drum, I've benefitted tremendously by having what I think are my best images critiqued by professional outdoor photographers. Sometimes a humbling experience but over the years it has had a very beneficial impact on my images. Frustration with the process simply implies impatience. Jack --- On Sun, 3/13/11, Boris Liberman bori...@gmail.com wrote: From: Boris Liberman bori...@gmail.com Subject: Re: The myth of persistence To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Date: Sunday, March 13, 2011, 7:57 AM On 3/11/2011 8:52 AM, AlunFoto wrote: Interesting essay. On one hand he advocates not to persist at something you're not good at, in order to spend time doing things that brings you more sense of achiement. On the other hand, all his examples revolve around monetary reward as the sole gauge of achievement. Shoots his own logic in the foot, in my opinion. Jostein Jostein, are you trying to say that basically one has to have criteria for everything: how successful one is, does one enjoy doing whatever they are doing, how difficult it is to persevere on a given subject, is there any gain from persisting, etc. Looks a bit like an egg and a turkey kind of question. So, I take snow scenes pictures (well, I don't, but just to flow with the underlying motif) and it does not come out right. Do I have to keep taking them? Well, may be, if I know that throughout the year (provided, I am not living in one season over whole year climate zone) I take other pictures, say of similar grand motif, a.k.a. landscape and they turn out good. May be I just enjoy the process of shooting out in the cold snowy weather. They may not sell, I may delete them afterwards... Am I actually trying to compete face to face with well known and established artists of the genre? Or perhaps I am missing the point entirely here... Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: The myth of persistence
On Sun, Mar 13, 2011 at 7:29 PM, AlunFoto alunf...@gmail.com wrote: With that kind of argumentation, I'd say you stopped just short of repeating my point. :-) Jostein Fortunately I was quoting the original (a.k.a. you) therefore the phone wasn't entirely broken. -- Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: The myth of persistence
Well now I _have_ to read it.. I could have written the paragraph Mike wrote that is quoted here.. so sorry he shot himself in the foot in that way ann AlunFoto wrote: Interesting essay. On one hand he advocates not to persist at something you're not good at, in order to spend time doing things that brings you more sense of achiement. On the other hand, all his examples revolve around monetary reward as the sole gauge of achievement. Shoots his own logic in the foot, in my opinion. Jostein 2011/3/11 Bruce Walker bruce.wal...@gmail.com: Mike Johnston on not feeling obligated to shoot (or try) *everything* ... Ever since then, I've been suspicious of the idea of persistence. It's a great, grand old American myth, of course: we're always telling ourselves that persistence and perseverence are crucial to success. But many people—including a few I could name—persist at failure. They keep trying, all right. But they keep trying to do things they already should have learned they're no good at. http://goo.gl/PhVNd One of Mike's best essays. He also admits to actually loving a cat once, and taking a couple of cat pix. -bmw -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: The myth of persistence
On 11/03/2011 12:52 AM, AlunFoto wrote: Interesting essay. On one hand he advocates not to persist at something you're not good at, in order to spend time doing things that brings you more sense of achiement. On the other hand, all his examples revolve around monetary reward as the sole gauge of achievement. Shoots his own logic in the foot, in my opinion. How do you figure that? He used one particular measure when a measure was specified, but he also made mention of the majority of his snow pictures doing nothing for him. The argument could just as easily be applied to non monetary gain activities. If a person sucks at snow scene pictures (I know I do), and only shoots them out of some warped sense of duty, then they are better off shooting something that moves them to excel at, even if they aren't very good at it either. This is independent of earning money, a hobby photographer would do as well to heed this. Another example: I'm the worlds worst dancer. I don't enjoy doing it, I'm quite clumsy on the dance floor, and have no desire to learn. So, I can force myself out onto the dance floor and be a horse, or I can sit at a table off to the side and take pictures of people dancing well (which is something I at least gain a marginal bit of enjoyment from doing). Or better still, I can stay at home and build stuff in my workshop, which is something that I enjoy a whole bunch, and which I am passably good at. -- William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: The myth of persistence
From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of William Robb How do you figure that? He used one particular measure when a measure was specified, but he also made mention of the majority of his snow pictures doing nothing for him. The argument could just as easily be applied to non monetary gain activities. If a person sucks at snow scene pictures (I know I do), and only shoots them out of some warped sense of duty, then they are better off shooting something that moves them to excel at, even if they aren't very good at it either. This is independent of earning money, a hobby photographer would do as well to heed this. Another example: I'm the worlds worst dancer. I don't enjoy doing it, I'm quite clumsy on the dance floor, and have no desire to learn. So, I can force myself out onto the dance floor and be a horse, or I can sit at a table off to the side and take pictures of people dancing well (which is something I at least gain a marginal bit of enjoyment from doing). Or better still, I can stay at home and build stuff in my workshop, which is something that I enjoy a whole bunch, and which I am passably good at. or you can get humungously drunk and convince yourself you're Fred Astaire. B -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: The myth of persistence
2011/3/11 William Robb anotherdrunken...@gmail.com: Shoots his own logic in the foot, in my opinion. How do you figure that? He used one particular measure when a measure was specified, but he also made mention of the majority of his snow pictures doing nothing for him. The argument could just as easily be applied to non monetary gain activities. Why _stop_ at monetary reward? The argument could more forcibly be applied to non-economic gains. Everyone has to pay the rent, and that's also where duty lies for most people. As a token of achiement it's loaded by more connotations than what's good for the point to come cleanly across. At least to me. To Mike's defence, monetary reward is much easier to quantify for the format of the short articles he write. There may also be a little difference of culture here, as in the classic question of whether you work to live or live to work. Jostein -- http://www.alunfoto.no/galleri/ http://alunfoto.blogspot.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
The myth of persistence
Mike Johnston on not feeling obligated to shoot (or try) *everything* ... Ever since then, I've been suspicious of the idea of persistence. It's a great, grand old American myth, of course: we're always telling ourselves that persistence and perseverence are crucial to success. But many people—including a few I could name—persist at failure. They keep trying, all right. But they keep trying to do things they already should have learned they're no good at. http://goo.gl/PhVNd One of Mike's best essays. He also admits to actually loving a cat once, and taking a couple of cat pix. -bmw -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: The myth of persistence
Mike Johnston on not feeling obligated to shoot (or try) *everything* ... http://goo.gl/PhVNd -bmw Just what I needed. This time of year my drive home from work is directly into the setting sun, the graphic winter trees and enchanted power station chimneys with sun-colored vapor coming out of them. I am due to pick up my eldest daughter and go home for supper but there are days I am looking for a convenient place to park and take out my camera instead of just letting it all wash over me and aesthetically please me as a person not the man behind the camera. And there are days I let it all go and am a happier man and a better father for it. Still the nagging feeling haunts me later when the golden opportunity is gone. kris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: The myth of persistence
Interesting essay. On one hand he advocates not to persist at something you're not good at, in order to spend time doing things that brings you more sense of achiement. On the other hand, all his examples revolve around monetary reward as the sole gauge of achievement. Shoots his own logic in the foot, in my opinion. Jostein 2011/3/11 Bruce Walker bruce.wal...@gmail.com: Mike Johnston on not feeling obligated to shoot (or try) *everything* ... Ever since then, I've been suspicious of the idea of persistence. It's a great, grand old American myth, of course: we're always telling ourselves that persistence and perseverence are crucial to success. But many people—including a few I could name—persist at failure. They keep trying, all right. But they keep trying to do things they already should have learned they're no good at. http://goo.gl/PhVNd One of Mike's best essays. He also admits to actually loving a cat once, and taking a couple of cat pix. -bmw -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- http://www.alunfoto.no/galleri/ http://alunfoto.blogspot.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
