Re: To Pentax in Japan (does anybody have their email address?)
I just hope they don't find out where I live. Why, Bill, will that hurt your credibility ??? vbg Fred
Re: To Pentax in Japan (does anybody have their email address?)
- Original Message - From: Fred Subject: Re: To Pentax in Japan (does anybody have their email address?) I just hope they don't find out where I live. Why, Bill, will that hurt your credibility ??? vbg No, but i don't want my home renovation project to get any bigger than it needs to William Robb
Re: To Pentax in Japan (does anybody have their email address?)
No, I think he's worried about the famous Pentax ningas being dispatched. At 08:26 AM 6/12/03 -0400, you wrote: I just hope they don't find out where I live. Why, Bill, will that hurt your credibility ??? vbg Fred To grasp the true meaning of socialism, imagine a world where everything is designed by the post office, even the sleaze. O'Rourke, P.J.
Re: To Pentax in Japan (does anybody have their email address?)
Peter wrote: No, I think he's worried about the famous Pentax ninjas being dispatched. At 08:26 AM 6/12/03 -0400, you wrote: I just hope they don't find out where I live. Are those the ones in the black pajamas (they are professional you know) with the AHOC emblem on the hood? BUTCH Each man had only one genuine vocation - to find the way to himself. Hermann Hess (Demian)
Re: To Pentax in Japan (does anybody have their email address?)
Mr. Robb, I hope someone at Pentax Japan is reading this recent spate of posts by you. William Robb wrote: - Original Message - From: Pål Jensen Subject: Re: To Pentax in Japan (does anybody have their email address?) Mark wrote: Backwards compatibility isn't just about being able to use certain lenses with certain cameras, it's about giving your potential customers the confidence that what they buy today will be compatible tomorrow. *That's* the most important thing Pentax is throwing away. But in all fairness we are talking 20 years here, not tomorrow. No other company offer better backwards support either. Drop K mount compatablity today, drop A mount compatablity tomorrow If they set the trend by dropping system compatability, something they have historically bragged about, and they already have the possibility of dropping aperture ring compatability, they they cannot be trusted to support any future equipment compatability. William Robb
Re: To Pentax in Japan (does anybody have their email address?)
- Original Message - From: Pål Jensen Subject: Re: To Pentax in Japan (does anybody have their email address?) Mark wrote: Backwards compatibility isn't just about being able to use certain lenses with certain cameras, it's about giving your potential customers the confidence that what they buy today will be compatible tomorrow. *That's* the most important thing Pentax is throwing away. But in all fairness we are talking 20 years here, not tomorrow. No other company offer better backwards support either. Drop K mount compatablity today, drop A mount compatablity tomorrow If they set the trend by dropping system compatability, something they have historically bragged about, and they already have the possibility of dropping aperture ring compatability, they they cannot be trusted to support any future equipment compatability. William Robb
Re: To Pentax in Japan (does anybody have their email address?)
- Original Message - From: Lawrence Kwan Subject: Re: To Pentax in Japan (does anybody have their email address?) If their calculations showed that the profit from majority of K-mount users buying an *ist* was less than the engineering and production cost of the added aperture simulator, the decision would not be so hard to make. Then their calculations had better include the cost of system replacement, and they had better be able to compete on new pricing with Canon EOS used pricing. If people have to start looking at all new equipment to use a camera body, the decision to purchase Pentax is not automatic. By dropping compatability, Pentax is playing a very dangerous gamble, one which may well backfire on them, since they are alienating a user base that already exists. William Robb
Re: To Pentax in Japan (does anybody have their email address?)
Mark wrote: Backwards compatibility isn't just about being able to use certain lenses with certain cameras, it's about giving your potential customers the confidence that what they buy today will be compatible tomorrow. *That's* the most important thing Pentax is throwing away. But in all fairness we are talking 20 years here, not tomorrow. No other company offer better backwards support either. Pål
Re: To Pentax in Japan (does anybody have their email address?)
Steve wrote: I second that. I was really looking forward to that camera, now I am not. I don`t think Pentax gives a rats ass about what we think here on the list. Perhaps thats exactly what they did: they do give a rats ass. If they have been following this list, they cannot come to other conclusion that those who insist of using K and M lenses are persons who buy everything cheap on e-bay and has never bought a new Pentax item in their life. Pål
Re: To Pentax in Japan (does anybody have their email address?)
Hey, now, not true. 360 flash, the ZX-L, ZX-50, ZX-M, and two FA lenses purchased by this household in the last few years. All new. Folks here like K/M lenses because of optics and _build_ quality. I imagine people in other systems often prefer older lenses for the exact same reasons. It's not our fault that camera makers are making plastic junk these days. Let's face it: once you have a fair number of cameras and lenses, you get selective about what you buy. I'm not going to go out and buy a new lens that duplicates an old one without a good reason. Or a camera body. But Pentax'x first digital SLR is something that has the potential to appeal to ANYONE using K mount lenses, if the danged thing worked with them all. They've lost all their Cottys, and that's not good. Pål Jensen wrote: Perhaps thats exactly what they did: they do give a rats ass. If they have been following this list, they cannot come to other conclusion that those who insist of using K and M lenses are persons who buy everything cheap on e-bay and has never bought a new Pentax item in their life.
Re: To Pentax in Japan (does anybody have their email address?)
Lon wrote: Hey, now, not true. 360 flash, the ZX-L, ZX-50, ZX-M, and two FA lenses purchased by this household in the last few years. All new. Folks here like K/M lenses because of optics and _build_ quality. I imagine people in other systems often prefer older lenses for the exact same reasons. It's not our fault that camera makers are making plastic junk these days. I'm not saying everone fits the bill. However, the user who insist on using 20+ year old lenses on new camera bodies in probably less than 1% of the customers. Hence, it isn't of much interest to the manufacturers. Pål
Re: To Pentax in Japan (does anybody have their email address?)
BTW, I have bought new Pentax items in my life, and I`ve also supported their parts department, and their service department, not to mention the Pentax cheerleading I`ve done to camera shops, friends and family. But I digress, the rats ass feeling is mutual with the direction Pentax is going. Steve Larson Redondo Beach, California Pål Jensen wrote: Steve wrote: I second that. I was really looking forward to that camera, now I am not. I don`t think Pentax gives a rats ass about what we think here on the list. Perhaps thats exactly what they did: they do give a rats ass. If they have been following this list, they cannot come to other conclusion that those who insist of using K and M lenses are persons who buy everything cheap on e-bay and has never bought a new Pentax item in their life. Pål
Re: To Pentax in Japan (does anybody have their email address?)
Pål, you and the Pentax staff better ask themselves: 1.) If people stick to 20+ year old gear and even buy so much of Pentax's old gear, what qualities does this old gear offer that the new gear does not offer? - IMO the old gear offers better build quality and better value for money than the new gear. When I turned to Pentax in 1989, I bough a Super A, an A50/f1.4 and an A28/f2.8 new. Then for years I bought only used gear (MXs, K,M,A-series lenses), and lots of it, as I could not afford the new gear, and as I did not like the auto focus bodies. Then came the MZ5-N which convinced me. I bought it and several new, convincing lenses (FA24, FA35, FA43, FA50/f2.8, FA77, FA85, FA135, FA300) which I could afford. Now I am back to the used market because it is cheaper (also for FA lenses) and because I am still a fan of manual gear which is not available new. 2.) What old and new qualities must our new gear offer so that users of old gear turn to buy new stuff? - IMO the new gear needs uncompromised quality, good value for money, and new features unavailable with the old gear. Like more Limited lenses, fully compatible high quality bodies (both digital and analogue), and IS. I will keep waiting. Arnold Pål Jensen schrieb: Perhaps thats exactly what they did: they do give a rats ass. If they have been following this list, they cannot come to other conclusion that those who insist of using K and M lenses are persons who buy everything cheap on e-bay and has never bought a new Pentax item in their life.
Re: To Pentax in Japan (does anybody have their email address?)
Yes, Pal, we know, you don't think much of the people on the list. The fact of the matter, in my case, is that Pentaxes are the only cameras I ever bought new. But, that just points up the fact that your opinions are just your opinions however much you think you know. Ciao, Graywolf http://pages.prodigy.net/graywolfphoto - Original Message - From: Pål Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Perhaps thats exactly what they did: they do give a rats ass. If they have been following this list, they cannot come to other conclusion that those who insist of using K and M lenses are persons who buy everything cheap on e-bay and has never bought a new Pentax item in their life.
Re: To Pentax in Japan (does anybody have their email address?)
Hi Pål, Many stick to the equipment of the era from when they got into photography. For me this would be the M, A and F bodies and lenses. However, today my favourites are K-series, LX, F/FA*, Limiteds. I do not seem to be in accordance with the many - but heavily influenced by the PDML ;-) Nikon ressurected the FM2 in the form of the FM3a but buyers are simply too few. I wonder what Nikon expected. Didn't they know their own FM2 sales numbers? Actually, I think that to the conservative type of photographers that were supposed to buy the FM3a, the FM2 still is the more convincing product, while the FM3a simply is too electronic In addition, there are no shortage of well built modern equipment. It is just that many complain about its cost which is silly really, as doesn't really cost more, often less, compared to older stuff when adjusted for inflation etc. I do not complain about the prices of new equipment. Pentax prices generally are OK. However, the build quality of some items - especially zooms - could be better. Just compare the build qualtiy of the FA24-90 to that of the first generation of AF zooms (e.g. F28-80 or F35-105) If you own 30 lenses you certainly could afford new gear if you stuck to a more normal number of lenses :o) Well, the big number of old lenses happened only after I had acquired some new AF lenses I can't see the problem; you own a complete set of lenses compatible with a Pentax DSLR. Yes, but I want to decide which k-mount lens I may use on an *ist D. I do not want Pentax to take the decision for me. Naturally, AF lenses much better fit the *ist D. However, if I want to use the *ist D with a particular K- or M-series lens - e.g. the K17/f4 Fish-Eye, or the M85/f2, my favourite portrait lens, or the K28/f3.5, which is better than my F28/f2.8 - then I do neither need nor want Pentax do decide for me that I should not be able to meter properly with any such lens when combined with the *ist D. I am quite certain that stop-down-metering would only require some minor reprogramming of the camera, and I want Pentax to do it for the benefit of all users of k-mount equipment, and I guess it would do no harm at all but only good to the number of *ist Ds that will be sold. The *ist D falls into the most competitive area of DSLR's where the price envelope is being pushed. I don't think Pentax can afford extravagant compatibility for a minority where the competition and market leaders can not. An aperture simluator may be expensive, but how can 5 lines of software to enable metering with stopped down k-mount lenses be expensive. Arnold
Re: To Pentax in Japan (does anybody have their email address?)
Arnold Stark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: An aperture simluator may be expensive, but how can 5 lines of software to enable metering with stopped down k-mount lenses be expensive. If the aperture simulator can be put on a competitively priced $200.00 camera like a ZX-7, its cost is trivial in the context of a $1500.00 camera. -- Mark Roberts Photography and writing www.robertstech.com
Re: To Pentax in Japan (does anybody have their email address?)
I second that. I was really looking forward to that camera, now I am not. I don`t think Pentax gives a rats ass about what we think here on the list. Steve Larson Redondo Beach, California - Original Message - From: Arnold Stark [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: PDML [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2003 12:32 AM Subject: To Pentax in Japan (does anybody have their email address?) Dear Pentax Corporation, For more than 14 years I am a user and a big enthusiast of Pentax k-mount equipment. I have spent a huge amount of money both on new and used Pentax k-mount equipment. In all this time the one feature that never let me think much about other brands was the unsurpassed compatibilty of the k-mount. I use and combine with pleasure bodies and lenses in all variations of the k-mount. And I would like to continue doing so when acquiring a digital SLR body. Now Pentax is finally ready to release its first digital SLR. Like other Pentax users I have been very patient waiting for one. Thanks to a very friendly Pentax sales person I have been able to try a pre-production *ist D. Generally it is a very nice and well-made camera which I would happily buy. However, I then could use my 30 beloved lenses with plain k-mount only at wide open aperture (in aperture priority mode) or without metering (in manual mode). This really stops me from buying the *ist D. I need and want full k-mount compatibilty, or at the very least, I want the camera to offer a mode of operation in which it meters correctly with K- and M-series lenses at any aperture. One solution would be that the camera would meter when the lens is stopped down via depth-of-field preview. This feature could easily be installed by a software update. I want you to know that 1.) I will buy a new Pentax digital SLR body ONLY, if it offers a correctly metered mode with K-series and M-series lenses at all apertures. 2.) I will NOT buy any Pentax film-based 35mm SLR which is not fully compatible with the k-mount. 3.) I will NOT buy any Pentax 35mm SLR lens which is not fully compatible with the k-mount unless it offers image stabilisation. Greetings from Hamburg, Germany, Arnold Stark
Re: To Pentax in Japan (does anybody have their email address?)
Nicely said if only we could be sure they read and care about what is said on this list. At 09:32 AM 6/7/03 +0200, you wrote: Dear Pentax Corporation, For more than 14 years I am a user and a big enthusiast of Pentax k-mount equipment. I have spent a huge amount of money both on new and used Pentax k-mount equipment. In all this time the one feature that never let me think much about other brands was the unsurpassed compatibilty of the k-mount. I use and combine with pleasure bodies and lenses in all variations of the k-mount. And I would like to continue doing so when acquiring a digital SLR body. Now Pentax is finally ready to release its first digital SLR. Like other Pentax users I have been very patient waiting for one. Thanks to a very friendly Pentax sales person I have been able to try a pre-production *ist D. Generally it is a very nice and well-made camera which I would happily buy. However, I then could use my 30 beloved lenses with plain k-mount only at wide open aperture (in aperture priority mode) or without metering (in manual mode). This really stops me from buying the *ist D. I need and want full k-mount compatibilty, or at the very least, I want the camera to offer a mode of operation in which it meters correctly with K- and M-series lenses at any aperture. One solution would be that the camera would meter when the lens is stopped down via depth-of-field preview. This feature could easily be installed by a software update. I want you to know that 1.) I will buy a new Pentax digital SLR body ONLY, if it offers a correctly metered mode with K-series and M-series lenses at all apertures. 2.) I will NOT buy any Pentax film-based 35mm SLR which is not fully compatible with the k-mount. 3.) I will NOT buy any Pentax 35mm SLR lens which is not fully compatible with the k-mount unless it offers image stabilisation. Greetings from Hamburg, Germany, Arnold Stark Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. --Groucho Marx
Re: To Pentax in Japan (does anybody have their email address?)
Arnold, Does this mean in non-metered manual mode, all apertures are available with K/M lenses? That wasn't clear from your earlier report. It wasn't even clear that a non-metered mode was available. If it's true then I'd be happy enough, as I'm not as married to the concept of internal meters as others obviously are. regards, Anthony Farr - Original Message - From: Arnold Stark [EMAIL PROTECTED] (snip) However, I then could use my 30 beloved lenses with plain k-mount only at wide open aperture (in aperture priority mode) or without metering (in manual mode). (snip)
Re: To Pentax in Japan (does anybody have their email address?)
Sorry if I did not describe things clearly. Yes, on the *ist D a non-metered manual mode is available with K- and M series lenses. DOF preview is available, too. One can even meter with the camera in AV mode at open aperture, then switch to manual mode and calculate what the shutter time should be at the chosen aperture. However, this kind of operation is awfully slow and complicated. Arnold Anthony Farr schrieb: Does this mean in non-metered manual mode, all apertures are available with K/M lenses? That wasn't clear from your earlier report. It wasn't even clear that a non-metered mode was available. If it's true then I'd be happy enough, as I'm not as married to the concept of internal meters as others obviously are.
Re: To Pentax in Japan (does anybody have their email address?)
Thanks for answering so soon, Arnold. This makes me happier, and I can now deselect rant-mode, and withdraw my recent complaints. I'm sympathetic to those who prefer to have the camera's meter and especially Av mode available with their classic lenses, and I hope that either a work-around is devised or a better specified version of the *istD follows shortly. But for my needs, if I ever do get an *istD it would serve me just fine. regards, Anthony Farr - Original Message - From: Arnold Stark [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sorry if I did not describe things clearly. Yes, on the *ist D a non-metered manual mode is available with K- and M series lenses. DOF preview is available, too. One can even meter with the camera in AV mode at open aperture, then switch to manual mode and calculate what the shutter time should be at the chosen aperture. However, this kind of operation is awfully slow and complicated. Arnold
Re: To Pentax in Japan (does anybody have their email address?)
Well done, Arnold! I second that, too. But please tell them, I'm a Pentax user for more than 18 years! ;-) Still, I find the idea of an *ist-D very tempting... Thomas Arnold Stark schrieb: Dear Pentax Corporation, For more than 14 years I am a user and a big enthusiast of Pentax k-mount equipment[snip]
