OT: Boise CEO Dies in Plane Crash Today
Very OT... probably sharing just as an outlet. Micron (where I consult and have worked off/on for 4 years of the past 11) CEO Steve Appleton died today in the crash of his experimental plane at the Boise airport around 9:00 AM. I didn't know him personally, but he's a prominent figure in this small town of 300,000. http://www.forbes.com/sites/ericsavitz/2012/02/03/micron-ceo-steve-appleton-dies-in-small-plane-accident/ http://www.idahostatesman.com/ Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: Boise CEO Dies in Plane Crash Today
What a shame. Especially tough, since it seems this wasn't his first crash. My husband flies small planes... owns an experimental one, too... I hate hearing news like this, even though I know all the lines about flying being safer than driving, etc. I wonder what went wrong...? -c On Fri, Feb 3, 2012 at 4:21 PM, Tom C caka...@gmail.com wrote: Very OT... probably sharing just as an outlet. Micron (where I consult and have worked off/on for 4 years of the past 11) CEO Steve Appleton died today in the crash of his experimental plane at the Boise airport around 9:00 AM. I didn't know him personally, but he's a prominent figure in this small town of 300,000. http://www.forbes.com/sites/ericsavitz/2012/02/03/micron-ceo-steve-appleton-dies-in-small-plane-accident/ http://www.idahostatesman.com/ Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: Boise CEO Dies in Plane Crash Today
Which reminds me of John Denver's last song; You fill up my Cessna. (Yeah, I know, it was a Long EZ) On 2/3/2012 2:07 PM, Christine Nielsen wrote: What a shame. Especially tough, since it seems this wasn't his first crash. My husband flies small planes... owns an experimental one, too... I hate hearing news like this, even though I know all the lines about flying being safer than driving, etc. I wonder what went wrong...? -c On Fri, Feb 3, 2012 at 4:21 PM, Tom Ccaka...@gmail.com wrote: Very OT... probably sharing just as an outlet. Micron (where I consult and have worked off/on for 4 years of the past 11) CEO Steve Appleton died today in the crash of his experimental plane at the Boise airport around 9:00 AM. I didn't know him personally, but he's a prominent figure in this small town of 300,000. http://www.forbes.com/sites/ericsavitz/2012/02/03/micron-ceo-steve-appleton-dies-in-small-plane-accident/ http://www.idahostatesman.com/ Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com (from dos4est) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: plane crash
On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 09:31:47 -0500 John Sessoms jsessoms...@nc.rr.com wrote: It walks like a duck. It quacks like a duck. But it ain't a duck? mark! john, given the context, that is hilarious on so many levels... -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: plane crash
On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 12:38 AM, Joseph McAllister pentax...@mac.com wrote: Thank you for speaking my mind, Frank. THe same goes for much of the hysteria the news media foist on us daily. Yes, we should be talking about ~real~ news on this photography list. Like Tiger Woods' apology. Now ~there's~ a story deserving of the nearly hysterical media attention it garnered all week long! (I haven't seen the apology, nor do I want to) cheers, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: plane crash
On 20/2/10, frank theriault, discombobulated, unleashed: (I haven't seen the apology, nor do I want to) I'm sorry to see that. -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche -- http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: plane crash
On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 9:00 AM, Cotty cotty...@mac.com wrote: On 20/2/10, frank theriault, discombobulated, unleashed: (I haven't seen the apology, nor do I want to) I'm sorry to see that. Hopefully you'll be able to muddle through the weekend knowing of my deprivation. ;-) cheers, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: plane crash
On 20/2/10, frank theriault, discombobulated, unleashed: Hopefully you'll be able to muddle through the weekend knowing of my deprivation. It is by will alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of Sapho that thought acquire speed; That lips acquire stains; the stains become a warning. It is by will alone I set my mind in motion. ;-) -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche -- http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: plane crash
Interestingly enough, in my news feeds, the BBC was first to report on Tiger's talk. Paul On Feb 20, 2010, at 8:54 AM, frank theriault wrote: On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 12:38 AM, Joseph McAllister pentax...@mac.com wrote: Thank you for speaking my mind, Frank. THe same goes for much of the hysteria the news media foist on us daily. Yes, we should be talking about ~real~ news on this photography list. Like Tiger Woods' apology. Now ~there's~ a story deserving of the nearly hysterical media attention it garnered all week long! (I haven't seen the apology, nor do I want to) cheers, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: plane crash
From: frank theriault On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 12:38 AM, Joseph McAllister pentax...@mac.com wrote: Thank you for speaking my mind, Frank. THe same goes for much of the hysteria the news media foist on us daily. Yes, we should be talking about ~real~ news on this photography list. Like Tiger Woods' apology. Now ~there's~ a story deserving of the nearly hysterical media attention it garnered all week long! (I haven't seen the apology, nor do I want to) Apology for what? -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: plane crash
Thank you for speaking my mind, Frank. THe same goes for much of the hysteria the news media foist on us daily. Yes, we should be talking about ~real~ news on this photography list. Like Tiger Woods' apology. Now ~there's~ a story deserving of the nearly hysterical media attention it garnered all week long! (I haven't seen the apology, nor do I want to) Well, to precis it for you, he apologised personally to everyone on the planet for having screwed all his sponsorship deals. It was obviously the most important story on the entire planet so every news outlet in this country had it big on the front page. Bob -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: plane crash
I heard parts of it, it was moving, (I really needed to find a men's
room half way through it), not that I care all that much.
On 2/20/2010 8:54 AM, frank theriault wrote:
On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 12:38 AM, Joseph McAllisterpentax...@mac.com wrote:
Thank you for speaking my mind, Frank.
THe same goes for much of the hysteria the news media foist on us daily.
Yes, we should be talking about ~real~ news on this photography list.
Like Tiger Woods' apology. Now ~there's~ a story deserving of the
nearly hysterical media attention it garnered all week long!
(I haven't seen the apology, nor do I want to)
cheers,
frank
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Re: plane crash
On Feb 20, 2010, at 06:08 , Cotty wrote: On 20/2/10, frank theriault, discombobulated, unleashed: Hopefully you'll be able to muddle through the weekend knowing of my deprivation. It is by will alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of Sapho that thought acquire speed; That lips acquire stains; the stains become a warning. It is by will alone I set my mind in motion. Sounds to me that drinking more sets your mind in motion. If I see you and it looks like you're sporting poorly applied purplish lipstick, I should expect to be engaged in serious diatribe of thought discombobulated? Joseph McAllister pentax...@mac.com “ The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.” — Kevan Olesen -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: plane crash
2010/2/19 Adam Maas a...@mawz.ca: On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 7:39 PM, paul stenquist pnstenqu...@comcast.net wrote: Not true. No one denied the McVeigh and his Michigan MIlitia partners were terrorists. Trying to make the label a racial issue is ridiculous. The guy in the plane was a criminal. To say he's not a terrorist is merely a way of saying that as far as anyone can tell at this point, he's not connected to any group plotting against our government or any other government. He's just another angry taxpayer. Paul In addition, it should be notable that certain notorious terrorists currently located in Chicago are quite seriously white (Bill Ayers and his wife, late of the Weathermen) and pretty much all of the ELF and related groups are white and very definitely terrorists, not to mention Boston's favourites, the IRA. It's more an unfortunate coincidence that most currently active terrorist groups tend to have members who are darker of skin (although that's not always the case, particularly with Islamics, alot of the Chechnyans involved in Islamic terrorist groups are light-skinned, as are many Balkans or Persians, and Arabs are also Caucasian, if generally on the darker side of the spectrum) This attack does not appear to be a terrorist attack, in that it doesn't appear to have been an attack designed to change government policy by terrorizing innocent civilians. It appears to be a revenge attack directly targeted on a particular organization by an angry and not entirely well wrapped individual. I quite agree with Paul and Adam except in that I don't consider the Chechnyan resistance terrorist. There is Chechnyan terror as well - too sadly so - and it is saddening to see the resistance also targeting civilians but my connotation of terror includes a cause that is from my point of view illegitimate - which of course is a very daring interpretation; I realize that -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: plane crash
2010/2/18 John Sessoms jsessoms...@nc.rr.com: It was violence directed against innocent third parties for the purpose of making a political statement and/or influencing government policies. That makes it terrorism in my book whether he was affiliated with any group or not. hmmm... The lone terrorist is more often a person suffering from mental illness. He/she may express disdain towards particular political issues, but mostly they're out of sync with the world in general. For reasons that has nothing to do with terrorism. Jostein -- http://www.alunfoto.no/galleri/ http://alunfoto.blogspot.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: plane crash
2010/2/19 eckinator eckina...@gmail.com: Those policy makers should go back to watching Weapons of Ass Destruction and leave governmenting and democrating to others... I propose errorism. Defined as acts misconstrued as terrorism. :-) Jostein -- http://www.alunfoto.no/galleri/ http://alunfoto.blogspot.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: plane crash
yeah and deliberationism for acts deliberately misportrayed as such as well as ficititious altogether 2010/2/19 AlunFoto alunf...@gmail.com: 2010/2/19 eckinator eckina...@gmail.com: Those policy makers should go back to watching Weapons of Ass Destruction and leave governmenting and democrating to others... I propose errorism. Defined as acts misconstrued as terrorism. :-) Jostein -- http://www.alunfoto.no/galleri/ http://alunfoto.blogspot.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: plane crash
From: eckinator I quite agree with Paul and Adam except in that I don't consider the Chechnyan resistance terrorist. There is Chechnyan terror as well - too sadly so - and it is saddening to see the resistance also targeting civilians but my connotation of terror includes a cause that is from my point of view illegitimate - which of course is a very daring interpretation; I realize that And there's part of the problem defining terrorism - one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. From my point of view, if you're sneaking around, targeting civilians - soft targets for effect, for the purpose of influencing public opinion, influencing government policy or just for a symbolic protest - you are a terrorist. If there was any justice in your cause, your choice of means nullified it. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: plane crash
From: AlunFoto 2010/2/18 John Sessoms jsessoms...@nc.rr.com: It was violence directed against innocent third parties for the purpose of making a political statement and/or influencing government policies. That makes it terrorism in my book whether he was affiliated with any group or not. hmmm... The lone terrorist is more often a person suffering from mental illness. He/she may express disdain towards particular political issues, but mostly they're out of sync with the world in general. For reasons that has nothing to do with terrorism. Oh, no doubt about it. The guy was nuttier than a fruitcake. Read his manifesto if you can, although compared to him, Ted Kaczynski reads like Dr. Seuss. The sad thing is what I could figure out from his screed I mostly agreed with. It just doesn't define wrongs sufficient to justify killing myself or a bunch of others. His response is disproportionate and therein lies the insanity. But lone crazies as a source of terrorists is going to be a problem in the U.S. where the Constitution embodies the fundamental right to be nucking futs, and where mental health care is the red-headed step child of our pay for play, for profit health (I don't) care system. It just irks me that the way the government defines terrorism doesn't take into account individual acting nutburgers. His act is a terrorist act. His behavior is terrorist behavior. But because we can't link him to some foreign ideology, he's not a terrorist. It walks like a duck. It quacks like a duck. But it ain't a duck? -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: plane crash
2010/2/19 John Sessoms jsessoms...@nc.rr.com: It walks like a duck. It quacks like a duck. But it ain't a duck? Well... his flight resembled Daffy's, I guess... It depends on how much you're willing to dilute the term. Terrorist is a sort of word that makes great headlines and is very suitable for whacking someone over the head with. Like sexist, racist, communist, ... All of which are used widely outside their original meaning. But for the description of homicidal nutters, I absolutely see your point. We don't have any good name for them except terrorist, and Bin Laden opened a whole new avenue of means they can use for their deluded goals. It's a sorry state of matters, but I still side against labelling them terrorists as long as they do not have the ideological/religious connection usually bound to the term. Jostein -- http://www.alunfoto.no/galleri/ http://alunfoto.blogspot.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: plane crash
- Original Message - From: John Sessoms Subject: Re: plane crash From my point of view, if you're sneaking around, targeting civilians - soft targets for effect, for the purpose of influencing public opinion, influencing government policy or just for a symbolic protest - you are a terrorist. If there was any justice in your cause, your choice of means nullified it. That pretty much makes your own country born by terrorism. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: plane crash
On Feb 19, 2010, at 10:12 AM, William Robb wrote: - Original Message - From: John Sessoms Subject: Re: plane crash From my point of view, if you're sneaking around, targeting civilians - soft targets for effect, for the purpose of influencing public opinion, influencing government policy or just for a symbolic protest - you are a terrorist. If there was any justice in your cause, your choice of means nullified it. That pretty much makes your own country born by terrorism. Utter nonsense. American revolutionary forces were organized armies that took direct action against British troops. Undoubtedly, both sides acted against civilian populations to some extent, but the American Revolution was as much a war as any other of the time. Paul William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: plane crash
On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 3:16 AM, eckinator eckina...@gmail.com wrote: 2010/2/19 Adam Maas a...@mawz.ca: On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 7:39 PM, paul stenquist pnstenqu...@comcast.net wrote: Not true. No one denied the McVeigh and his Michigan MIlitia partners were terrorists. Trying to make the label a racial issue is ridiculous. The guy in the plane was a criminal. To say he's not a terrorist is merely a way of saying that as far as anyone can tell at this point, he's not connected to any group plotting against our government or any other government. He's just another angry taxpayer. Paul In addition, it should be notable that certain notorious terrorists currently located in Chicago are quite seriously white (Bill Ayers and his wife, late of the Weathermen) and pretty much all of the ELF and related groups are white and very definitely terrorists, not to mention Boston's favourites, the IRA. It's more an unfortunate coincidence that most currently active terrorist groups tend to have members who are darker of skin (although that's not always the case, particularly with Islamics, alot of the Chechnyans involved in Islamic terrorist groups are light-skinned, as are many Balkans or Persians, and Arabs are also Caucasian, if generally on the darker side of the spectrum) This attack does not appear to be a terrorist attack, in that it doesn't appear to have been an attack designed to change government policy by terrorizing innocent civilians. It appears to be a revenge attack directly targeted on a particular organization by an angry and not entirely well wrapped individual. I quite agree with Paul and Adam except in that I don't consider the Chechnyan resistance terrorist. There is Chechnyan terror as well - too sadly so - and it is saddening to see the resistance also targeting civilians but my connotation of terror includes a cause that is from my point of view illegitimate - which of course is a very daring interpretation; I realize that Note I quite clearly specified the Chechnyans involved in the Islamic terrorist groups, not the resistance movement, there is a difference even if it's becoming increasingly small. The cause the group supports is irrelevant to the definition of terrorism, it's is a tactic, pure and simple, and a terrorist group is a group which primarily uses this tactic, although non-terrorist groups do use terrorist tactics on occasion, that does not make them terrorists until it bcomes their primary tactic (which says nothing about the legitimacy of the groups in question) -- M. Adam Maas http://www.mawz.ca Explorations of the City Around Us. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
OT - Terrorism (was: plane crash)
I think terrorism is when you shoot in the bunch, while guerrilla is selecting your target. Of course, you can also be somewhere in between, you can make mistakes, and so on. I can understand guerrilla, while I cannot justify terrorism. Never. Being a terrorist automatically puts you among the wrong human beings. All above is fully independent from good/bad causes (which are opinable). Dario -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: plane crash
On 2/19/10, P N Stenquist pnstenqu...@comcast.net wrote: On Feb 19, 2010, at 10:12 AM, William Robb wrote: - Original Message - From: John Sessoms Subject: Re: plane crash From my point of view, if you're sneaking around, targeting civilians - soft targets for effect, for the purpose of influencing public opinion, influencing government policy or just for a symbolic protest - you are a terrorist. If there was any justice in your cause, your choice of means nullified it. That pretty much makes your own country born by terrorism. Utter nonsense. American revolutionary forces were organized armies that took direct action against British troops. Undoubtedly, both sides acted against civilian populations to some extent, but the American Revolution was as much a war as any other of the time. I assumed he was blithering about the Indian Wars. As if those of here today had any say in it. -- Scott Loveless http://www.twosixteen.com/fivetoedsloth/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: plane crash
Fri Feb 19 02:20:00 CST 2010 AlunFoto wrote: 2010/2/18 John Sessoms jsessoms002 at nc.rr.com: It was violence directed against innocent third parties for the purpose of making a political statement and/or influencing government policies. That makes it terrorism in my book whether he was affiliated with any group or not. hmmm... The lone terrorist is more often a person suffering from mental illness. He/she may express disdain towards particular political issues, but mostly they're out of sync with the world in general. For reasons that has nothing to do with terrorism. It is very much discussion about definitions, - on how one defines what terrorism is. E.g. Merriam-Webster online defines it as the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/terrorism I'd like to remind that well before 2001, according to the international conventions (Tokio 1963, and later The Hague 1970, Montreal 1971), aircraft hijaking was considered and act of terrorism, regardless of the motives. (here is a list of the most famous cases: http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080823163951AAPLoCP ) Arguably, some of the hijackers were considered to have certain mental problems. It was proven e.g. in the old case of the UT-Austin shooter (1966): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Whitman So, the bottom line is that regardless of motives and actors, it's the methods that define what terrorism is, at least according to the dictionaries and international conventions. Igor -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: plane crash
2010/2/19 Scott Loveless sdlovel...@gmail.com: That pretty much makes your own country born by terrorism. Utter nonsense. American revolutionary forces were organized armies that took direct action against British troops. Undoubtedly, both sides acted against civilian populations to some extent, but the American Revolution was as much a war as any other of the time. I assumed he was blithering about the Indian Wars. As if those of here today had any say in it. Well let's just say I still get both congratulated on Hitler's actions in some place and blamed for them in others or stereotyped I have to be a Nazi. And I-94W Nonimmigrant Visa Waiver Arrival/Departure Form asks on the back C.: “Have you ever been ore are you now involved in espionage or sabotage; or in terrorist activities; or genocide; or between 1933 and 1945 were involved, in any way, in persecutions associated with Nazi Germany or its allies? - Yes/No and just on general principle I left the answer open and told the immigration officer I hadn't even been born then and saw no appropriate answer to that question and thus would prefer to leave it open or cross it out altogether. Boy was there wind blowing in my face. In fact he said, if I didn't look like such a nice kid otherwise, he'd send me right back. IIRC this was also at a time when I had to sign that I was not a terrorist (which still has me wondering if terrorists who signed this were treated any differently in court than those who didn't as well as whether or not a single terrorist ever said oops, I'm not supposed to go there and got on the next plane home after apologizing profusely to immigration) aaw weeell =) I kinda fail to see the notion born in conjunction with a nation - imo a nation is a randomly outlined landmass with more or less homogenous ethnicity and more or less of a government - and a nation can be considered terrorist based on its foreign policy or actions of executive and armed forces towards its own citizens and its governments way of dealing with human right so the US continues to remain in my perception a terrorist nation whereas Iraq no longer does so except in where US installed government institutions continue to pursue the 2nd line agenda of plundering the country to make the war at least a financial non-failure. even my country perpetrates terrorist actions in some instances so don't take this as picking on the US - what I am trying to say is the line is thin, the keepers are weak and the temptation is huge... cheers ecke -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: plane crash
On Feb 19, 2010, at 12:17 PM, eckinator wrote: 2010/2/19 Scott Loveless sdlovel...@gmail.com: That pretty much makes your own country born by terrorism. Utter nonsense. American revolutionary forces were organized armies that took direct action against British troops. Undoubtedly, both sides acted against civilian populations to some extent, but the American Revolution was as much a war as any other of the time. I assumed he was blithering about the Indian Wars. As if those of here today had any say in it. Well let's just say I still get both congratulated on Hitler's actions in some place and blamed for them in others or stereotyped I have to be a Nazi. And I-94W Nonimmigrant Visa Waiver Arrival/Departure Form asks on the back C.: “Have you ever been ore are you now involved in espionage or sabotage; or in terrorist activities; or genocide; or between 1933 and 1945 were involved, in any way, in persecutions associated with Nazi Germany or its allies? - Yes/No and just on general principle I left the answer open and told the immigration officer I hadn't even been born then and saw no appropriate answer to that question and thus would prefer to leave it open or cross it out altogether. Boy was there wind blowing in my face. In fact he said, if I didn't look like such a nice kid otherwise, he'd send me right back. IIRC this was also at a time when I had to sign that I was not a terrorist (which still has me wondering if terrorists who signed this were treated any differently in court than those who didn't as well as whether or not a single terrorist ever said oops, I'm not supposed to go there and got on the next plane home after apologizing profusely to immigration) aaw weeell =) I kinda fail to see the notion born in conjunction with a nation - imo a nation is a randomly outlined landmass with more or less homogenous ethnicity and more or less of a government - and a nation can be considered terrorist based on its foreign policy or actions of executive and armed forces towards its own citizens and its governments way of dealing with human right so the US continues to remain in my perception a terrorist nation I think they need to change your meds. You've become a genuine nutcase. Paul whereas Iraq no longer does so except in where US installed government institutions continue to pursue the 2nd line agenda of plundering the country to make the war at least a financial non-failure. even my country perpetrates terrorist actions in some instances so don't take this as picking on the US - what I am trying to say is the line is thin, the keepers are weak and the temptation is huge... cheers ecke -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: plane crash
From: William Robb From my point of view, if you're sneaking around, targeting civilians - soft targets for effect, for the purpose of influencing public opinion, influencing government policy or just for a symbolic protest - you are a terrorist. If there was any justice in your cause, your choice of means nullified it. That pretty much makes your own country born by terrorism. And Canada, and Mexico ... as well as our respective mother countries don't you think? -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: plane crash
From: Scott Loveless On 2/19/10, P N Stenquist pnstenqu...@comcast.net wrote: On Feb 19, 2010, at 10:12 AM, William Robb wrote: - Original Message - From: John Sessoms Subject: Re: plane crash From my point of view, if you're sneaking around, targeting civilians - soft targets for effect, for the purpose of influencing public opinion, influencing government policy or just for a symbolic protest - you are a terrorist. If there was any justice in your cause, your choice of means nullified it. That pretty much makes your own country born by terrorism. Utter nonsense. American revolutionary forces were organized armies that took direct action against British troops. Undoubtedly, both sides acted against civilian populations to some extent, but the American Revolution was as much a war as any other of the time. I assumed he was blithering about the Indian Wars. As if those of here today had any say in it. Or that Canada had any less culpability for their treatment of indigenous peoples prior to the 21st century. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: plane crash
On 2/19/10, John Sessoms jsessoms...@nc.rr.com wrote: From: Scott Loveless On 2/19/10, P N Stenquist pnstenqu...@comcast.net wrote: On Feb 19, 2010, at 10:12 AM, William Robb wrote: - Original Message - From: John Sessoms Subject: Re: plane crash From my point of view, if you're sneaking around, targeting civilians - soft targets for effect, for the purpose of influencing public opinion, influencing government policy or just for a symbolic protest - you are a terrorist. If there was any justice in your cause, your choice of means nullified it. That pretty much makes your own country born by terrorism. Utter nonsense. American revolutionary forces were organized armies that took direct action against British troops. Undoubtedly, both sides acted against civilian populations to some extent, but the American Revolution was as much a war as any other of the time. I assumed he was blithering about the Indian Wars. As if those of here today had any say in it. Or that Canada had any less culpability for their treatment of indigenous peoples prior to the 21st century. Well, in defense of past Canadians, while not innocent, they weren't nearly as brutal as past Americans. -- Scott Loveless http://www.twosixteen.com/fivetoedsloth/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: plane crash
On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 1:34 PM, Scott Loveless sdlovel...@gmail.com wrote: On 2/19/10, John Sessoms jsessoms...@nc.rr.com wrote: From: Scott Loveless Or that Canada had any less culpability for their treatment of indigenous peoples prior to the 21st century. Well, in defense of past Canadians, while not innocent, they weren't nearly as brutal as past Americans. -- Scott Loveless And yet, Canada (unlike the US) committed functional genocide against a native tribe, the Beothuk in Newfoundland and Labrador. Ironically, it was as much the Micmac and Inuit's fault as European settlers as the former groups drove the Beothuk out of a fair bit of their settled land. Overall Canada was a lot nicer to its native population than the US, but that's different from saying we were nice. -- M. Adam Maas http://www.mawz.ca Explorations of the City Around Us. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: plane crash
On Feb 19, 2010, at 2:05 PM, Adam Maas wrote: On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 1:34 PM, Scott Loveless sdlovel...@gmail.com wrote: On 2/19/10, John Sessoms jsessoms...@nc.rr.com wrote: From: Scott Loveless Or that Canada had any less culpability for their treatment of indigenous peoples prior to the 21st century. Well, in defense of past Canadians, while not innocent, they weren't nearly as brutal as past Americans. -- Scott Loveless And yet, Canada (unlike the US) committed functional genocide against a native tribe, the Beothuk in Newfoundland and Labrador. Ironically, it was as much the Micmac and Inuit's fault as European settlers as the former groups drove the Beothuk out of a fair bit of their settled land. Overall Canada was a lot nicer to its native population than the US, but that's different from saying we were nice. Of course it's important to note that by the time the US became a nation, France, Spain and England had already done a lot to turn the native population against colonists. By 1776, nearly three hundred years of bad relations had set the stage for the future. Paul -- M. Adam Maas http://www.mawz.ca Explorations of the City Around Us. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: plane crash
Of course it's important to note that by the time the US became a nation, France, Spain and England had already done a lot to turn the native population against colonists. By 1776, nearly three hundred years of bad relations had set the stage for the future. I blame the French and Spanish - it's that Latin hot-bloodedness. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: plane crash
I think they need to change your meds. You've become a genuine nutcase. I expect someone's beaten me to it, but... ...Mark! -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: plane crash
On Feb 19, 2010, at 2:21 PM, Bob W wrote: I think they need to change your meds. You've become a genuine nutcase. I expect someone's beaten me to it, but... ...Mark! Well okay:-). But I regret saying it, even if the young man in question was acting somewhat irrational. I am concerned about his physical well being. Paul -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: plane crash
[...] And I-94W Nonimmigrant Visa Waiver Arrival/Departure Form asks on the back C.: Have you ever been ore are you now involved in espionage or sabotage; or in terrorist activities; or genocide; or between 1933 and 1945 were involved, in any way, in persecutions associated with Nazi Germany or its allies? - Yes/No and just on general principle I left the answer open and told the immigration officer I hadn't even been born then and saw no appropriate answer to that question and thus would prefer to leave it open or cross it out altogether. Boy was there wind blowing in my face. In fact he said, if I didn't look like such a nice kid otherwise, he'd send me right back. IIRC this was also at a time when I had to sign that I was not a terrorist (which still has me wondering if terrorists who signed this were treated any differently in court than those who didn't as well as whether or not a single terrorist ever said oops, I'm not supposed to go there and got on the next plane home after apologizing profusely to immigration) aaw weeell =) There is a story, possibly apocryphal, that on entering the USA for the first time Oscar Wilde in reply to the question Is it your intention to overthrow or attempt to overthrow the government of the United States of America wrote Sole purpose of visit. They let him in without a murmur. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: plane crash
[...] It just irks me that the way the government defines terrorism doesn't take into account individual acting nutburgers. His act is a terrorist act. His behavior is terrorist behavior. But because we can't link him to some foreign ideology, he's not a terrorist. It walks like a duck. It quacks like a duck. But it ain't a duck? 'terrorism' and 'duck' are just labels. What matters is behaviour. If someone deliberately flies a plane into a building why should anyone give a shit whether they're called terrorists, Jemimah Puddleduck or Zoltan the Magnificent Mallard? It makes no difference to anything. They have committed a criminal act and if they survive they should be subject to the law same as any other alleged lawbreaker. Similarly, people plotting to commit criminal acts should be treated the same as others - the label 'terrorist' is irrelevant. By the same principles, people arrested on suspicion should be tried fairly within a reasonable period of time, not just labelled 'terrorist' and stuck in Guantanamo Bay to rot forever. Bob -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: plane crash
2010/2/19 paul stenquist pnstenqu...@comcast.net: Well okay:-). But I regret saying it, even if the young man in question was acting somewhat irrational. I am concerned about his physical well being. It is OK Paul - I laid it on a little thicker as I always do when it comes to Vietraq, Gitmo, global climate or generally any issue where I feel people including myself need to constantly reflect and rethink their opinions because there are so many different sides to those coins but I stand by my views as long as someone proves to me that more than 90% of Fahrenheit 9/11 are a work of fiction as I feel any more than 10% mustn't be true or the whole system should be shut down and replaced. As far as medicine goes, there is none for me, I have to go through it all with good food and much sleep. So far things look fair enough except for a very frequent sensation of numbness in my left forearm and hand that I pray will go away Cheers Ecke -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Terrorism (was: plane crash)
Dario, I think that is a great way to put it =) 2010/2/19 Dario Bonazza dario.bona...@virgilio.it: I think terrorism is when you shoot in the bunch, while guerrilla is selecting your target. Of course, you can also be somewhere in between, you can make mistakes, and so on. I can understand guerrilla, while I cannot justify terrorism. Never. Being a terrorist automatically puts you among the wrong human beings. All above is fully independent from good/bad causes (which are opinable). Dario -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: plane crash
On Feb 19, 2010, at 2:53 PM, eckinator wrote: 2010/2/19 paul stenquist pnstenqu...@comcast.net: Well okay:-). But I regret saying it, even if the young man in question was acting somewhat irrational. I am concerned about his physical well being. It is OK Paul - I laid it on a little thicker as I always do when it comes to Vietraq, Gitmo, global climate or generally any issue where I feel people including myself need to constantly reflect and rethink their opinions because there are so many different sides to those coins but I stand by my views as long as someone proves to me that more than 90% of Fahrenheit 9/11 are a work of fiction as I feel any more than 10% mustn't be true or the whole system should be shut down and replaced. Fahrenheit 9/11 is total fiction. That's quite obvious to anyone who was in NY. As far as medicine goes, there is none for me, I have to go through it all with good food and much sleep. So far things look fair enough except for a very frequent sensation of numbness in my left forearm and hand that I pray will go away Best of luck with that. Cheers Ecke -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: plane crash
paul stenquist wrote: On Feb 19, 2010, at 2:05 PM, Adam Maas wrote: On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 1:34 PM, Scott Loveless sdlovel...@gmail.com wrote: On 2/19/10, John Sessoms jsessoms...@nc.rr.com wrote: From: Scott Loveless Or that Canada had any less culpability for their treatment of indigenous peoples prior to the 21st century. Well, in defense of past Canadians, while not innocent, they weren't nearly as brutal as past Americans. -- Scott Loveless And yet, Canada (unlike the US) committed functional genocide against a native tribe, the Beothuk in Newfoundland and Labrador. Ironically, it was as much the Micmac and Inuit's fault as European settlers as the former groups drove the Beothuk out of a fair bit of their settled land. Overall Canada was a lot nicer to its native population than the US, but that's different from saying we were nice. Of course it's important to note that by the time the US became a nation, France, Spain and England had already done a lot to turn the native population against colonists. By 1776, nearly three hundred years of bad relations had set the stage for the future. Paul -- M. Adam Maas http://www.mawz.ca Explorations of the City Around Us. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: plane crash
- Original Message - From: P N Stenquist Subject: Re: plane crash Utter nonsense. American revolutionary forces were organized armies that took direct action against British troops. Undoubtedly, both sides acted against civilian populations to some extent, but the American Revolution was as much a war as any other of the time. Well, they did overthrow the legal government of the day, and they didn't have a recognized army at the time. You can't have it both ways no matter how much you want to play both sides of the fence. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: plane crash
- Original Message - From: John Sessoms Subject: Re: plane crash That pretty much makes your own country born by terrorism. And Canada, and Mexico ... as well as our respective mother countries don't you think? Don't know about Mexico, Canada was started as a business arm of the Hudson's Bay Company. And we never had the Indian wars that happened south of us (which is not to say that the natives were treated well). William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: plane crash
On Feb 19, 2010, at 9:18 PM, William Robb wrote: - Original Message - From: P N Stenquist Subject: Re: plane crash Utter nonsense. American revolutionary forces were organized armies that took direct action against British troops. Undoubtedly, both sides acted against civilian populations to some extent, but the American Revolution was as much a war as any other of the time. Well, they did overthrow the legal government of the day, and they didn't have a recognized army at the time. You can't have it both ways no matter how much you want to play both sides of the fence. Well is right. So much silliness. The legal government was one of a number of European powers that had decided to colonize the Americas and drain them dry. It's not a matter of having it both ways, it's a matter of simple and obvious truth. Paul William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: plane crash
Bill, You better not tell George Washington that he didn't have an army. Nobody wintered in Valley Forge. Nobody made the British surrender at Yorktown. Nope, there was no army involved. ;-) Regards, Bob S. On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 8:18 PM, William Robb war...@gmail.com wrote: - Original Message - From: P N Stenquist Subject: Re: plane crash Utter nonsense. American revolutionary forces were organized armies that took direct action against British troops. Undoubtedly, both sides acted against civilian populations to some extent, but the American Revolution was as much a war as any other of the time. Well, they did overthrow the legal government of the day, and they didn't have a recognized army at the time. You can't have it both ways no matter how much you want to play both sides of the fence. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: plane crash
On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 12:59:34 -0500 paul stenquist pnstenqu...@comcast.net wrote: I kinda fail to see the notion born in conjunction with a nation - imo a nation is a randomly outlined landmass with more or less homogenous ethnicity and more or less of a government - and a nation can be considered terrorist based on its foreign policy or actions of executive and armed forces towards its own citizens and its governments way of dealing with human right so the US continues to remain in my perception a terrorist nation I think they need to change your meds. You've become a genuine nutcase. Paul paul, you are usually a little more gracious than that. perhaps it comes as a surprise to you that (a lot of) people outside the US don't quite look at it in the same ways that the US citizens do. and in a lot of people's books, what the US did in Iraq and Afghanistan *is* terrorism... perhaps that is a debatable issue, definitely not a nutcase issue... not that my country is innocent of such crimes. nations are artificial entities and you need enemies internal and external to keep them going. we have ours. mostly internal -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: plane crash
On 2/19/2010 10:12 AM, William Robb wrote:
- Original Message - From: John Sessoms Subject: Re: plane
crash
From my point of view, if you're sneaking around, targeting civilians
- soft targets for effect, for the purpose of influencing public
opinion, influencing government policy or just for a symbolic protest
- you are a terrorist.
If there was any justice in your cause, your choice of means
nullified it.
That pretty much makes your own country born by terrorism.
I'd hardly call fighting redcoats attacking soft targets. There were
attrocities committed by both sides during the revolution, well
rebellion really since the upper class of the colonies pretty much
remained the upper class of the new United States, but atrocities are
often the results of war, even more so when it's a family fight. The
difference is were they policy or did a situation get out of hand.
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RE: plane crash
From: Bob W [...] It just irks me that the way the government defines terrorism doesn't take into account individual acting nutburgers. His act is a terrorist act. His behavior is terrorist behavior. But because we can't link him to some foreign ideology, he's not a terrorist. It walks like a duck. It quacks like a duck. But it ain't a duck? 'terrorism' and 'duck' are just labels. What matters is behaviour. If someone deliberately flies a plane into a building why should anyone give a shit whether they're called terrorists, Jemimah Puddleduck or Zoltan the Magnificent Mallard? It makes no difference to anything. They have committed a criminal act and if they survive they should be subject to the law same as any other alleged lawbreaker. Similarly, people plotting to commit criminal acts should be treated the same as others - the label 'terrorist' is irrelevant. By the same principles, people arrested on suspicion should be tried fairly within a reasonable period of time, not just labelled 'terrorist' and stuck in Guantanamo Bay to rot forever. I just think it's inconsistent to call one group of people who fly planes into buildings on purpose as a political statement terrorists and then turn around and say another person who does the same thing is not a terrorist just because he couldn't kill as many innocent bystanders or because he's only doing it because he's mad at the IRS. If it's terrorism when a group of people murder innocent people to make a political statement, it's terrorism when one person tries to murder innocent people to make a political statement. Especially when the labeling as terrorist, or not, appears to be for the purpose of manipulating levels of public hysteria, both then and now. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: plane crash
Obviously the British recognized it as an army, even if they often saw
it as little better than Milita. But then the British more or less
designed the Milita system in use in the Colonies, and still in a
modified form recognized by the United States Code today.
On 2/19/2010 9:44 PM, Bob Sullivan wrote:
Bill,
You better not tell George Washington that he didn't have an army.
Nobody wintered in Valley Forge.
Nobody made the British surrender at Yorktown.
Nope, there was no army involved. ;-)
Regards, Bob S.
On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 8:18 PM, William Robbwar...@gmail.com wrote:
- Original Message - From: P N Stenquist
Subject: Re: plane crash
Utter nonsense. American revolutionary forces were organized armies that
took direct action against British troops. Undoubtedly, both sides acted
against civilian populations to some extent, but the American Revolution
was as much a war as any other of the time.
Well, they did overthrow the legal government of the day, and they didn't
have a recognized army at the time.
You can't have it both ways no matter how much you want to play both sides
of the fence.
William Robb
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Re: plane crash
On 2/19/2010 10:52 PM, John Sessoms wrote:
From: Bob W
[...]
It just irks me that the way the government defines
terrorism doesn't take into account individual acting nutburgers.
His act is a terrorist act. His behavior is terrorist behavior.
But because we can't link him to some foreign ideology, he's not a
terrorist.
It walks like a duck. It quacks like a duck. But it ain't a duck?
'terrorism' and 'duck' are just labels. What matters is behaviour. If
someone deliberately flies a plane into a building why should anyone
give a
shit whether they're called terrorists, Jemimah Puddleduck or Zoltan the
Magnificent Mallard? It makes no difference to anything. They have
committed
a criminal act and if they survive they should be subject to the law
same as
any other alleged lawbreaker. Similarly, people plotting to commit
criminal
acts should be treated the same as others - the label 'terrorist' is
irrelevant. By the same principles, people arrested on suspicion
should be
tried fairly within a reasonable period of time, not just labelled
'terrorist' and stuck in Guantanamo Bay to rot forever.
I just think it's inconsistent to call one group of people who fly
planes into buildings on purpose as a political statement terrorists
and then turn around and say another person who does the same thing is
not a terrorist just because he couldn't kill as many innocent
bystanders or because he's only doing it because he's mad at the IRS.
If it's terrorism when a group of people murder innocent people to
make a political statement, it's terrorism when one person tries to
murder innocent people to make a political statement.
I'd hardly call the IRS a group of innocent people. It's an
unconstitutional organization, but has a lot of precedent behind it so
it's probably here to stay.
Especially when the labeling as terrorist, or not, appears to be for
the purpose of manipulating levels of public hysteria, both then and now.
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Re: plane crash
On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 10:52 PM, John Sessoms jsessoms...@nc.rr.com wrote: I just think it's inconsistent to call one group of people who fly planes into buildings on purpose as a political statement terrorists and then turn around and say another person who does the same thing is not a terrorist just because he couldn't kill as many innocent bystanders or because he's only doing it because he's mad at the IRS. If it's terrorism when a group of people murder innocent people to make a political statement, it's terrorism when one person tries to murder innocent people to make a political statement. Especially when the labeling as terrorist, or not, appears to be for the purpose of manipulating levels of public hysteria, both then and now. The word terrorism is now meaningless. It is so emotionally and politically charged, and it's been used to describe so many different types of acts that we can't know what the term describes any longer. Look. A guy flew an airplane into a building. He's dead. There's a big hole in the building. What do we gain by describing it is a terrorist act? What do we gain by labeling him a terrorist? What's the use in debating this? cheers, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: plane crash
On 2/20/2010 12:10 AM, frank theriault wrote:
On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 10:52 PM, John Sessomsjsessoms...@nc.rr.com wrote:
I just think it's inconsistent to call one group of people who fly planes
into buildings on purpose as a political statement terrorists and then turn
around and say another person who does the same thing is not a terrorist
just because he couldn't kill as many innocent bystanders or because he's
only doing it because he's mad at the IRS.
If it's terrorism when a group of people murder innocent people to make a
political statement, it's terrorism when one person tries to murder innocent
people to make a political statement.
Especially when the labeling as terrorist, or not, appears to be for the
purpose of manipulating levels of public hysteria, both then and now.
The word terrorism is now meaningless. It is so emotionally and
politically charged, and it's been used to describe so many different
types of acts that we can't know what the term describes any longer.
Look. A guy flew an airplane into a building.
He's dead. There's a big hole in the building.
What do we gain by describing it is a terrorist act? What do we gain
by labeling him a terrorist? What's the use in debating this?
cheers,
frank
Only political points. I for one could care less if he was a terrorist
or not. He'll never be prosecuted and his screed is almost unfathomable.
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Re: plane crash
On Feb 19, 2010, at 21:10 , frank theriault wrote: Look. A guy flew an airplane into a building. He's dead. There's a big hole in the building. What do we gain by describing it is a terrorist act? What do we gain by labeling him a terrorist? What's the use in debating this? Thank you for speaking my mind, Frank. THe same goes for much of the hysteria the news media foist on us daily. Joseph McAllister pentax...@mac.com “ Nature is considerably more creative and inventive than humankind. Without Nature there isn't any humankind. Without humankind, Nature is fine.” -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
plane crash
Small plane just crashed less than 1/2 mile from my work office. I can see the smoke. Geesh, wish I had brought my camera today. Read about it here: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,586581,00.html -- -- Reduce your Government Footprint -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: plane crash
Small plane just crashed less than 1/2 mile from my work office. I can see the smoke. Geesh, wish I had brought my camera today. Read about it here: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,586581,00.html Wow, that's amazing - something on Fox News confirmed as true! -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: plane crash
2010/2/18 Bob W p...@web-options.com: Wow, that's amazing - something on Fox News confirmed as true! MRK Was Al Qaeda blamed yet? Any new airline security restrictions? -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: plane crash
And I thought I was bad...
On 2/18/2010 1:29 PM, Gonz wrote:
Small plane just crashed less than 1/2 mile from my work office. I
can see the smoke. Geesh, wish I had brought my camera today. Read
about it here:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,586581,00.html
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Re: plane crash
On 2/18/2010 2:46 PM, eckinator wrote:
2010/2/18 Bob Wp...@web-options.com:
Wow, that's amazing - something on Fox News confirmed as true!
MRK
Was Al Qaeda blamed yet? Any new airline security restrictions?
Software Engineer working for CSC decided to end it all, including the
company. Sad really...
(at least that's my bet).
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Re: plane crash
OMG, it's a yellow school bus! You still use them! -- kryt Gonz wrote: Small plane just crashed less than 1/2 mile from my work office. I can see the smoke. Geesh, wish I had brought my camera today. Read about it here: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,586581,00.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: plane crash
2010/2/18 Bob W p...@web-options.com: Wow, that's amazing - something on Fox News confirmed as true! come to think of it it may be because there is no longer a Bush pilot telling Dubya what to stammer so they have to at least report the facts plus their interpretation rather than their truth plus selective facts where useful... so you'll see more of that =/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: plane crash
The web site has been taken down by the host, but Joe Stack's alleged suicide note (manifesto) can be seen here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/pixelsmithy/4368753436/ On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 2:01 PM, eckinator eckina...@gmail.com wrote: 2010/2/18 Bob W p...@web-options.com: Wow, that's amazing - something on Fox News confirmed as true! come to think of it it may be because there is no longer a Bush pilot telling Dubya what to stammer so they have to at least report the facts plus their interpretation rather than their truth plus selective facts where useful... so you'll see more of that =/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Gone digital? I'm always looking for old Pentax film cameras and lenses to fit Pentax, (either K-mount or M42 screwmount). Also have a weakness for twin lens cameras. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: plane crash
From: Bob W Small plane just crashed less than 1/2 mile from my work office. I can see the smoke. Geesh, wish I had brought my camera today. Read about it here: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,586581,00.html Wow, that's amazing - something on Fox News confirmed as true! The Department of Homeland Security said Thursday it does not believe the crash was an act of terrorism. Oh, really? -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: plane crash
On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 15:22:19 -0500 John Sessoms jsessoms...@nc.rr.com wrote: The Department of Homeland Security said Thursday it does not believe the crash was an act of terrorism. Oh, really? think you need a team to make it terrorism. this was just a protest against the US government by a disgruntled engineer. -- Love is that condition in which the happiness of another person is essential to your own... Jealousy is a disease, love is a healthy condition.- Robert Heinlein -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: plane crash
IMHO the new government is no longer in the business of making the people docile by using fear tactics in the form of prevented fictictious acts of terror or blaming every broken ATM on Al Qaeda 2010/2/18 Bran Everseeking bran.everseek...@sasktel.net: On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 15:22:19 -0500 John Sessoms jsessoms...@nc.rr.com wrote: The Department of Homeland Security said Thursday it does not believe the crash was an act of terrorism. Oh, really? think you need a team to make it terrorism. this was just a protest against the US government by a disgruntled engineer. -- Love is that condition in which the happiness of another person is essential to your own... Jealousy is a disease, love is a healthy condition.- Robert Heinlein -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: plane crash
On 2/18/2010 3:22 PM, John Sessoms wrote:
From: Bob W
Small plane just crashed less than 1/2 mile from my work
office. I can see the smoke. Geesh, wish I had brought my camera
today. Read about it here:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,586581,00.html
Wow, that's amazing - something on Fox News confirmed as true!
The Department of Homeland Security said Thursday it does not believe
the crash was an act of terrorism.
Oh, really?
Hard as it is to believe the DOH's, (you'd think that someone would have
seen that acronym coming), even a broken clock, (analog), is right twice
a day. Not to say they're right this time either, just saying...
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Re: plane crash
The US doesn't have a parlementary system, unlike, in theory at least,
most of Europe. The the US the bureaucrats are the government, the
Administration gives direction, but we still have the same government we
had under the previous Administration. Which is why at bottom if your
honestly compare the response of DOH's to any act, the actual terrorism
is downplayed, while the threat is accentuated, same as it was before.
The only difference is that this bunch prefers to see the threat from
different quarters, (right wing fanatics, vs. Al Qaeda operatives), but
it's the same song when an actual attack occurs. Same band different
conductor.
On 2/18/2010 5:28 PM, eckinator wrote:
IMHO the new government is no longer in the business of making the
people docile by using fear tactics in the form of prevented
fictictious acts of terror or blaming every broken ATM on Al Qaeda
2010/2/18 Bran Everseekingbran.everseek...@sasktel.net:
On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 15:22:19 -0500
John Sessomsjsessoms...@nc.rr.com wrote:
The Department of Homeland Security said Thursday it does not
believe the crash was an act of terrorism.
Oh, really?
think you need a team to make it terrorism. this was just a protest
against the US government by a disgruntled engineer.
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Re: plane crash
2010/2/18 P. J. Alling webstertwenty...@gmail.com: The US doesn't have a parlementary system, unlike, in theory at least, most of Europe. The the US the bureaucrats are the government, the Administration gives direction, but we still have the same government we had under the previous Administration. Which is why at bottom if your honestly compare the response of DOH's to any act, the actual terrorism is downplayed, while the threat is accentuated, same as it was before. The only difference is that this bunch prefers to see the threat from different quarters, (right wing fanatics, vs. Al Qaeda operatives), but it's the same song when an actual attack occurs. Same band different conductor. yeah that was sort of my feeling, over here the government feels mostly industry controlled, there are so many blatant cases of favoritism, it would be an insult to any banana republic by comparison. the point you raise certainly makes sense hence i will withhold/retract my statement until i know more -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: plane crash
From: Bran Everseeking The Department of Homeland Security said Thursday it does not believe the crash was an act of terrorism. Oh, really? think you need a team to make it terrorism. this was just a protest against the US government by a disgruntled engineer. It was violence directed against innocent third parties for the purpose of making a political statement and/or influencing government policies. That makes it terrorism in my book whether he was affiliated with any group or not. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: plane crash
2010/2/18 John Sessoms jsessoms...@nc.rr.com: That makes it terrorism in my book whether he was affiliated with any group or not. either that or going out with a bang from a fight you cannot win... but yes, agreed -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: plane crash
- Original Message - From: John Sessoms jsessoms...@nc.rr.com To: pdml@pdml.net Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 2:22 PM Subject: RE: plane crash The Department of Homeland Security said Thursday it does not believe the crash was an act of terrorism. Oh, really? It's only terrorism if the culprits have brown skin. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: plane crash
Those policy makers should go back to watching Weapons of Ass Destruction and leave governmenting and democrating to others... 2010/2/19 William Robb war...@gmail.com: - Original Message - From: John Sessoms jsessoms...@nc.rr.com To: pdml@pdml.net Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 2:22 PM Subject: RE: plane crash The Department of Homeland Security said Thursday it does not believe the crash was an act of terrorism. Oh, really? It's only terrorism if the culprits have brown skin. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: plane crash
On Feb 18, 2010, at 6:06 PM, William Robb wrote: - Original Message - From: John Sessoms jsessoms...@nc.rr.com To: pdml@pdml.net Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 2:22 PM Subject: RE: plane crash The Department of Homeland Security said Thursday it does not believe the crash was an act of terrorism. Oh, really? It's only terrorism if the culprits have brown skin. Not true. No one denied the McVeigh and his Michigan MIlitia partners were terrorists. Trying to make the label a racial issue is ridiculous. The guy in the plane was a criminal. To say he's not a terrorist is merely a way of saying that as far as anyone can tell at this point, he's not connected to any group plotting against our government or any other government. He's just another angry taxpayer. Paul -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: plane crash
On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 7:39 PM, paul stenquist pnstenqu...@comcast.net wrote: On Feb 18, 2010, at 6:06 PM, William Robb wrote: - Original Message - From: John Sessoms jsessoms...@nc.rr.com To: pdml@pdml.net Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 2:22 PM Subject: RE: plane crash The Department of Homeland Security said Thursday it does not believe the crash was an act of terrorism. Oh, really? It's only terrorism if the culprits have brown skin. Not true. No one denied the McVeigh and his Michigan MIlitia partners were terrorists. Trying to make the label a racial issue is ridiculous. The guy in the plane was a criminal. To say he's not a terrorist is merely a way of saying that as far as anyone can tell at this point, he's not connected to any group plotting against our government or any other government. He's just another angry taxpayer. Paul In addition, it should be notable that certain notorious terrorists currently located in Chicago are quite seriously white (Bill Ayers and his wife, late of the Weathermen) and pretty much all of the ELF and related groups are white and very definitely terrorists, not to mention Boston's favourites, the IRA. It's more an unfortunate coincidence that most currently active terrorist groups tend to have members who are darker of skin (although that's not always the case, particularly with Islamics, alot of the Chechnyans involved in Islamic terrorist groups are light-skinned, as are many Balkans or Persians, and Arabs are also Caucasian, if generally on the darker side of the spectrum) This attack does not appear to be a terrorist attack, in that it doesn't appear to have been an attack designed to change government policy by terrorizing innocent civilians. It appears to be a revenge attack directly targeted on a particular organization by an angry and not entirely well wrapped individual. -- M. Adam Maas http://www.mawz.ca Explorations of the City Around Us. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Ok in NY - not near the plane crash
On 10/11/06, Ann Sanfedele [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just for you guys who do know about where I live Nope, I don't live near that building - But I have a friend how lives in the building right next to it - she wasn't home -- she was on her way, walking up the street. Another friend lives 3 blocks away, in a low rise - he was also out, cycling in the neighborhood. Just as well the MEts game got rained out - it would have been a very said affair. Well, I knew it wasn't your building (being as he hit the 20th floor), but I'm still glad to hear you're unscathed, Ann. Of all the cities for something like this to happen to... :-( cheers, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Ok in NY - not near the plane crash
Well, I knew it wasn't your building (being as he hit the 20th floor), but I'm still glad to hear you're unscathed, Ann. Of all the cities for something like this to happen to... :-( cheers, frank --- Yeah well they either need to lower the buildings or fly the airplanes higher. That'll solve the problem. Tom C. (No disrespect intended) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Ok in NY - not near the plane crash
What amazes me is that here in Brisbane they have, in the last two years, re-routed the flight-paths from the airport so that planes approach and depart right over the nearby suburbs, instead of heading out over the bay next door to the airport. Given the chances of anyone on the ground surviving having an aircraft dumped on them is pretty well zero, and the possibility of another 9/11 incident, that seems pretty dumb to me. John Coyle Brisbane, Australia - Original Message - From: Tom C [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: pdml@pdml.net Sent: Friday, October 13, 2006 7:55 AM Subject: Re: Ok in NY - not near the plane crash Well, I knew it wasn't your building (being as he hit the 20th floor), but I'm still glad to hear you're unscathed, Ann. Of all the cities for something like this to happen to... :-( cheers, frank --- Yeah well they either need to lower the buildings or fly the airplanes higher. That'll solve the problem. Tom C. (No disrespect intended) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Ok in NY - not near the plane crash
Just for you guys who do know about where I live Nope, I don't live near that building - But I have a friend how lives in the building right next to it - she wasn't home -- she was on her way, walking up the street. Another friend lives 3 blocks away, in a low rise - he was also out, cycling in the neighborhood. Just as well the MEts game got rained out - it would have been a very said affair. ann -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Galen Rowell killed in plane crash
The renowned nature photographer Galen Rowell was killed in a plane crash during this weekend. Rowell was one of the best American landscape photographers and was the author of the best nature photography books ever written (in my opinion). This is a great loss as Rowell was a first rate photographer and an unsurpased comunicator. I had looked forward to 30 more years of Rowells writing on photography. His mountan Light book stand as a landmark in photography writing. He will be missed. Pål - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Galen Rowell killed in plane crash
Thanks for sharing that, Pål. keith whaley Pål Jensen wrote: The renowned nature photographer Galen Rowell was killed in a plane crash during this weekend. Rowell was one of the best American landscape photographers and was the author of the best nature photography books ever written (in my opinion). This is a great loss as Rowell was a first rate photographer and an unsurpased comunicator. I had looked forward to 30 more years of Rowells writing on photography. His mountan Light book stand as a landmark in photography writing. He will be missed. - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Galen Rowell killed in plane crash
Thanks for sharing. Pal On Mon, 12 Aug 2002, Pål Jensen wrote: The renowned nature photographer Galen Rowell was killed in a plane crash during this weekend. Rowell was one of the best American landscape photographers and was the author of the best nature photography books ever written (in my opinion). This is a great loss as Rowell was a first rate photographer and an unsurpased comunicator. I had looked forward to 30 more years of Rowells writing on photography. His mountan Light book stand as a landmark in photography writing. He will be missed. Pål - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org . - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: OT - Plane crash in Milan
frank theriault [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I haven't watched the news yet, but I heard that a small plane crashed into the Pirelli Building in Milan today. I still don't know if it's a suspected terrorist act, or a terrible accident. Gianfranco, aren't you in Milan? Or am I wrong? Either way, hope all's well with you, and that no family or friends have been affected by this tragedy... Hi Frank, Thanks for the concern. I'm near Naples, though, which means 800km south of Milan. I have some friends in Milan but none of them seems to be involved. It's been a real 'luck' that the plane crashed in the late afternoon, when the offices in the building start to get left by the people inside. Like many have already said, after Sept 11th an accident like that brings the worst fears in mind. Gianfranco = Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: OT - Plane crash in Milan
Sorry, Gianfranco. I couldn't remember the area you lived in. Ah well, only off by 800 kilometres, eh? Not bad for me... Glad to hear that your Milanese friends are ok, though. regards, frank Gianfranco Irlanda wrote: Thanks for the concern. I'm near Naples, though, which means 800km south of Milan. -- The optimist thinks this is the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist fears it is true. -J. Robert Oppenheimer - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: OT - Plane crash in Milan
I'm flying to Milan this evening and going to the Central Train Station, near the site, tomorrow. Shel Belinkoff wrote: http://europe.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/europe/04/18/italy.milan/index.html No link to terrorism at this point. Just an old Swiss guy at the controls. -- Daniel J. Matyola mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Stanley, Powers Matyola mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Suite203, 1170 US Highway 22 East http://danmatyola.com Bridgewater, NJ 08807 (908)725-3322 fax: (908)707-0399 - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
OT - Plane crash in Milan
I haven't watched the news yet, but I heard that a small plane crashed into the Pirelli Building in Milan today. I still don't know if it's a suspected terrorist act, or a terrible accident. Gianfranco, aren't you in Milan? Or am I wrong? Either way, hope all's well with you, and that no family or friends have been affected by this tragedy... regards, frank -- The optimist thinks this is the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist fears it is true. -J. Robert Oppenheimer - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: OT - Plane crash in Milan
http://europe.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/europe/04/18/italy.milan/index.html No link to terrorism at this point. Just an old Swiss guy at the controls. frank theriault wrote: I haven't watched the news yet, but I heard that a small plane crashed into the Pirelli Building in Milan today. I still don't know if it's a suspected terrorist act, or a terrible accident. Gianfranco, aren't you in Milan? Or am I wrong? Either way, hope all's well with you, and that no family or friends have been affected by this tragedy... regards, frank -- The optimist thinks this is the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist fears it is true. -J. Robert Oppenheimer - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org . -- Shel Belinkoff mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.earthlink.net/~belinkoff/ http://home.earthlink.net/~belinkoff/darkroom-rentals/index.html - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: OT - Plane crash in Milan
Frank Th. wrote: I haven't watched the news yet, but I heard that a small plane crashed into the Pirelli Building in Milan today. I still don't know if it's a suspected terrorist act, or a terrible accident. No, it was a member of a (Swiss) Locarno (italian speaking part) flying Club that ran into problems and lost control, which he reported on before crashing. At least 4 dead and maybe 60 injured reported. Very tragic accident. It's funny (odd). Had this happened a year ago, one would have thought it be the most unlikely accident, but after September 11 - what will surprise you? Lasse. - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: OT - Plane crash in Milan
Wow. Only 4 dead... I mean, it's still a horrific tragedy, but I saw live video (no sound, so I didn't really know what was going on) of the gaping hole in the building. I feared that many more might be dead. You're right, Lasse, after Sept 11, one thinks the worse of such things... regards, frank Lasse Karlsson wrote: At least 4 dead and maybe 60 injured reported. -- The optimist thinks this is the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist fears it is true. -J. Robert Oppenheimer - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
