Fightin' Yids
Thursday, April 4, 2002, 10 pm on PBS (check your local listings): Resistance: Untold Stories of Jewish Partisans I saw a screening of this. It's pretty good. Producer is a friend of mine. mbs
RE: Fightin' Yids
a friend of mine -- an anthropologist named Martin Cohen -- has done a lot of research on this (and he's not the only one). He argues that there was an amazing amount of Jewish armed resistance to the Nazis, even in Germany. Also, he argues that the U.S. Jewish establishment hates this stuff and wants to push the image of the European Jews before during WW2 as being basically passive victims. Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, March 25, 2002 1:08 PM To: Lbo-Talk; PEN-L Subject: [PEN-L:24314] Fightin' Yids Thursday, April 4, 2002, 10 pm on PBS (check your local listings): Resistance: Untold Stories of Jewish Partisans I saw a screening of this. It's pretty good. Producer is a friend of mine. mbs
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if true, one reason could be the extent to which the resistance was intertwined with the Soviets. the documentary makes heavy use of Soviet archives, including old reenactments that use Russian soldiers. portraying both partisans and Nazi's. mbs a friend of mine -- an anthropologist named Martin Cohen -- has done a lot of research on this (and he's not the only one). He argues that there was an amazing amount of Jewish armed resistance to the Nazis, even in Germany. Also, he argues that the U.S. Jewish establishment hates this stuff and wants to push the image of the European Jews before during WW2 as being basically passive victims. Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine
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I wrote: a friend of mine -- an anthropologist named Martin Cohen -- has done a lot of research on this (and he's not the only one). He argues that there was an amazing amount of Jewish armed resistance to the Nazis, even in Germany. Also, he argues that the U.S. Jewish establishment hates this stuff and wants to push the image of the European Jews before during WW2 as being basically passive victims. if true, one reason could be the extent to which the resistance was intertwined with the Soviets. the documentary makes heavy use of Soviet archives, including old reenactments that use Russian soldiers. portraying both partisans and Nazi's. mbs I think it's slightly more sinister: the elite wants passive donors to their cause and support for Israel no matter what. Zionism and standing-and-fighting are seen as mutually exclusive alternatives. Further, the Bund tradition of socialist or labor-oriented Jews is anathema, whether or not the socialists were pro-Soviet. jgd
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I think it's slightly more sinister: the elite wants passive donors to their cause and support for Israel no matter what. Zionism and standing-and-fighting are seen as mutually exclusive alternatives. Further, the Bund tradition of socialist or labor-oriented Jews is anathema, whether or not the socialists were pro-Soviet. jgd Not necessarily. Properly reconstructed, the resistance could serve the purposes of elites. For instance, the recent TV movie about the Warsaw ghetto uprising was leached of left political content and framed the rebellion as a more honorable form of suicide: stand-and-fight as a matter of Jewish honor. The implicit subtext was the ancient Jewish version of the Alamo -- Masada -- a staple of zionist macho discourse. Little or no hint of some overarching, historical purpose in fighting fascism. As I think of it, I don't remember the word 'fascism' ever being uttered in the movie. mbs
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I remember hearing an interview on KPFA in Berkeley sometime ago regarding a story of several teenagers, boys and girls, who were Jewish partisans. Perhaps somebody knows the book. They showed incredible courage and ingenuity. Eventually they settled in Israel. The leader, hardened by the war, continued his guerrilla activities by behaving violently against the Arabs. I have no idea how common such a transition was. On Mon, Mar 25, 2002 at 06:15:00PM -0500, Max Sawicky wrote: I think it's slightly more sinister: the elite wants passive donors to their cause and support for Israel no matter what. Zionism and standing-and-fighting are seen as mutually exclusive alternatives. Further, the Bund tradition of socialist or labor-oriented Jews is anathema, whether or not the socialists were pro-Soviet. jgd Not necessarily. Properly reconstructed, the resistance could serve the purposes of elites. For instance, the recent TV movie about the Warsaw ghetto uprising was leached of left political content and framed the rebellion as a more honorable form of suicide: stand-and-fight as a matter of Jewish honor. The implicit subtext was the ancient Jewish version of the Alamo -- Masada -- a staple of zionist macho discourse. Little or no hint of some overarching, historical purpose in fighting fascism. As I think of it, I don't remember the word 'fascism' ever being uttered in the movie. mbs -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Not necessarily. Properly reconstructed, the resistance could serve the purposes of elites. For instance, the recent TV movie about the Warsaw ghetto uprising was leached of left political content and framed the rebellion as a more honorable form of suicide: stand-and-fight as a matter of Jewish honor. The implicit subtext was the ancient Jewish version of the Alamo -- Masada -- a staple of zionist macho discourse. Little or no hint of some overarching, historical purpose in fighting fascism. As I think of it, I don't remember the word 'fascism' ever being uttered in the movie. I don't remember a reference to fascism, but surely the Nazis were mentioned. Also, I saw a little of it and I remember hearing a reference to the Bund. JGDevine
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I wrote: a friend of mine -- an anthropologist named Martin Cohen -- has done a lot of research on this (and he's not the only one). He argues that there was an amazing amount of Jewish armed resistance to the Nazis, even in Germany. Well, what's an amazing amount? I visited the very moving Museum der Wiederstand in Berlin, in the former OKW (Wejrmacht) HQ, somewhat out of theway, though right byt the Tiergarten. They hanged Stauffenberg and the chief July conspirators there; there werewreaths and flowers still left to them. The museum fully documents every bit of resistance the Germans have found, they had an exhaustive exhibit on DieRote Kapelle, the Red Orchestra, Soviet spies (nonviolent but very effective), the White Rose, etc. Not much on arme Jewish resistance in Germany. The museum is an absolutely must see if you are within 300 miles of it, it will given you renewed faith in the human race. I struggled on, despairing only when there was merely injustice, and no resistance. (Brecht again, Luke: An den Nachgeboren, To Those Born Later--my own theme poem.) Now in the East it was a different story, Jews held off Stroop's SS in theWarsaw Ghetto for weeks with a handful of pistols and grenades, Jewish partisans played hell with the Nazis in the Pripet marches near Minsk, etc. Jewish resisters burned down Treblinka and revolted at Sobibor. Also, he argues that the U.S. Jewish establishment hates this stuff and wants to push the image of the European Jews before during WW2 as being basically passive victims. Plausible, but has he evidence? NB the passive victim stuff was perceived there at the time. ANyone know the great song Dona Dona, a Yiddish hymn written by a songwriter who perished in Auschwitz? On a wagon, bound for market, lies a calf with a mournful eye/High above him flies a swallow, winging swiftly through the sky/Dona dona dona dona, dona dona don' . . . . On the other hand there is We Are coming, the Partisan Song, This was was written in blood and not with lead (pehncil lead, that is); we sing that at Pesach in my house, reminds me I have to get out the songsheet. What would be rationale? Maybe the thought is, we need to be strong and fierce to prevent that from happening again, if the Jews had resisted, more of them would have lived. But from a Zionist point of view, isn't the key thing that you need a nation, mere resistance without land to defend isn;t enough? if true, one reason could be the extent to which the resistance was intertwined with the Soviets. the documentary makes heavy use of Soviet archives, including old reenactments that use Russian soldiers. portraying both partisans and Nazi's. Right. Effective resistancewas pretty much Communist. Consider: the White Rose (Catholic) got rolled up in months after its firsat action. The Red Orchestra lasted years. mbs I think it's slightly more sinister: the elite wants passive donors to their cause and support for Israel no matter what. Surely. Zionism and standing-and-fighting are seen as mutually exclusive alternatives. Why? Further, the Bund tradition of socialist or labor-oriented Jews is anathema, whether or not the socialists were pro-Soviet. jgd Absolutely. As one of the last few in the old tradition, I'm a dinosaur. jks _ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com
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[In re the TV version of the Warsaw uprising] Sure the film was lousy with Nazis. But there was nothing about fascism -- only terribly bad guys called 'Nazis' some pretty bad guys called 'Poles,' and some schlemiels who were jews (one of whom redeems himself). The Bund was referenced in the context of a bunch of left (and maybe other) factions agreeing on the need to fight, or something like that. What do I want from a TV movie? A little more. --mbs I don't remember a reference to fascism, but surely the Nazis were mentioned. Also, I saw a little of it and I remember hearing a reference to the Bund. JGDevine
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www.forward.com Have you read the Forward recently? It's under new (old) ownership, I'm told. One of the old-timers told me it's back on track. mbs Absolutely. As one of the last few in the old tradition, I'm a dinosaur. jks
Fightin' Yids
[producer is a friend of mine] mbs *** Washington D.C. Premiere RESISTANCE: UNTOLD STORIES OF JEWISH PARTISANS Tuesday, December 4th, 2001. 6:00 PM. Washington Jewish Film Festival Aaron Cecile Goldman Theatre District of Columbia Jewish Community Center 1529 16th Street, NW Washington, D.C. To order tickets: call 1-800-494-8497 or order online at www.wjff.org Post screening QA with director Seth Kramer and former partisan Miles Lerman.
